Context Podcast Digital Collection

Doug Exton: All righty. So it is 6:00. So thank you to everyone for attending tonight's connected conversation here with me. I have Gabrielle Davis and Doctor Cheryl Oestreicher is here with me right away. Oestreicher, I always try every time I fail. All right. But yeah if you guys have any questions throughout, this is the community feature. It's located at the bottom of your guys's screen.

And then. Yeah, if you guys want to take it away, floor is all yours.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Sure. So I'm Cheryl, I'm head of special collections and archives at Boise State University in the library. And I'm here kind of to talk about some of the things we have documented in our collections and the history, people, organizations, activities that give an overview for the past 30 ish 40 years.

Gabrielle Davis: My name is Gabrielle. I'm sorry I said I was. Your mouth opened again. We want to say something. No.

Cheryl Oestreicher: I'm good. Okay.

Gabrielle Davis: Oh.

Doug Exton: Do.

Gabrielle Davis: My name is is Gabrielle Davis. Most people call me Gabby. I am a respiratory therapist. It's my full time job here. I also run utilities for diversity, which is a local. The oldest and longest running LGBT youth group. In Idaho, and in Boise, it's an it meets from once a week for two hours for kids 12 to 20.

It's not meeting right now. Not from, Idaho. I've been here four long years. So when this topic came up, the three of us were just talking about this too, as well. Cheryl and I have talked a lot of previous. It's interesting because the history I know about in Idaho, compared to the history I know about from the States I've lived in, which I've been Michigan, Illinois is are different.

And so more of my Idaho history is what I've learned for from queer elders and the youth that's been living here, all of their lives.

I'm also married. I like long walks on a beach. I came to Idaho because I often find it difficult there, but, I can't Idaho, because my wife took a job here, so that's why I'm here.

Doug Exton: And also, I guess I should do a little background about myself, since after all these conversations, I've yet to talk about myself. I'm also from DC, and I've also lived here for four years, just like Gabrielle. So we have kind of similar backgrounds with learning the history and people that have been here, rather than experiencing some of it firsthand.

And I, I must give credit to my predecessor, Alan Verna, who started all of these collecting, collecting these groups of records because he made great strides. And I've tried to continue that to make sure that anyone who's interested can be informed about, our history and, of course, anything. Not at the moment, unfortunately, but in under normal circumstances, anyone can come in and look at our collections.

It went on for a couple of years. And how both sides, you know, reacted why they did it. Who did it, who is involved, how it was stopped and and so forth, as well as just, you know, things like the ElmAwards and it just kind of goes on and on and on. And there's a lot of rich history that reflects.

And, you know, there's good things. There's things talking about the founding of the balcony and the great people that they met. But there's not great things about the harassment and, anti-gay sentiments that they experience and, and all kinds of things and, you know, being, left out of their families because of, of who they were and all kinds of things.

And so it's, you know, it's the kind of history that has some really great triumphs from, but also some really awful tragedies. And, you know, that's, it's but it definitely reflects, you know, there's a lot that a lot of progress that has been made. There's of course still more to do. But there, you know, when working with students, especially in a few years ago when, gay marriage was finally legalized, I would bring some of these things out to talk about.

Here's how we got to where we are today. It's not about this didn't just happen. You know, there's a lot of history that goes into it and a lot of work from so many people that helped contribute to, to, to these triumphs. And, yeah, that's kind of a nutshell version.

And I think the importance of the project, Cheryl is mentioning it for me as a queer person, as a reminder that history can repeat itself. Or, and it is just like, you know, when we think about American history and the things that are happening with race right now, these are things that have happened already that are been happening or are continuing to happening, although most of America has forgotten it happened.

So, you know, the people that when we talk about, you know, queer history and Idaho, it's important to know that a lot of those main players and activists and advocates that did a lot of this work are still alive, living right here in Idaho. A youth group I work for or, volunteer with was ran by the same person since 1994.

I've got I hope I got that right. You know, I'm gonna go with 1999, because if I get this date wrong, eight years is, it's 1999, and the the youth group was initially called Family Friends and neighbors like Cheryl mentioned. And it it started as a youth group. It started with youth wanting to help with what was going on with proposition one.

And then once that was over, didn't have anywhere to go that have anything else to do. And so that's how the youth group came from. Kids wanted to, youth want to be together and make change, and that was turned into something else. But, you know, making the youth group living with within a project, the TCC has followed TCC in all their physical models.

It has provided safe, a safe space for queer and trans people across Idaho. We've had people drive from Oregon. We, we've had parents. We're going to kids from hours away just for two hours, and then they go back to whatever rule city they came from in Idaho. So I think it's important that we know this history. I think it's important that, cisgender, heterosexual people use this information to do some work themselves instead of relying on queer people to do emotional labor fit in for free.

Again, it's happening. And currently, prime examples, what's happening with the, law that was passed to ban trans women from playing sports? So it's important to know where some of those things came from, the damage that was done and will be, will be done again. So there's that.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Well, yeah. And even to add to that, because you know, what we think of as current right now is history in the future. You know, so history never ends. It just you just keep adding to it. And you know, that's that's part of it too. Anyone who participates is part of history and is making it happen. Any you know, anything that anyone does for any of it, it's part of history.

And, you know, one of the questions I get as an archivist over the years is, oh, but I'm not famous. No one is going to be interested in what I did. And that is so not true. It's the people on the ground and out there and working tirelessly. And that's what we have in some of our collections. And I see there's a couple of questions.

Can I go ahead and answer?

Doug Exton: Oh, go for it.

I would have to double check, but it started back probably in late 80s, early 90s, I believe. And so and we have I don't know that we have all of them, but we have a lot of them. And it is really interesting to look back at those to see here's what the issues that they were dealing with at that time has changed, what hasn't changed.

And, and to look at all that, it's but, you know, I always think of archives as preservers of the past, present and future. Because, you know, what we do never ends. And it's always important to make sure that we can keep those records for future generations.

Doug Exton: And then I actually have a question, so Idaho, at least I would argue, is a pretty isolated state geographically. I mean, the population is dispersed over a wide area, and Boise is considered by some to be one of the most isolated cities geographically as well. So how much do you think Idaho's isolation as a state played into the LGBTQ history, played out in Boise and across the state?

Cheryl Oestreicher: I think a lot, and I think that that extends to just about any topic you can possibly imagine. And I've lived in, I've lived in major cities, I've lived in suburbs, I've lived in, you know, smaller cities and a wide variety of places. And it really there is somewhat of a disconnect. And it's both that sometimes people don't pay attention to Idaho and is, you know, Idaho is often forgotten in the narratives of of any history except for maybe, you know, random moments.

And yeah, I think it plays into that. But now as we become more connected through internet, social media, etc., there's a lot more opportunities to overcome that.

Gabrielle Davis: To I think that, being an isolated city, plays into, I think lack of funding for resources, plays a big part into it because, again, the states I lived in weren't rule of the cities I lived in and weren't rural in a state, but we had a lot of funding that came from state and local government.

Idaho is not a very inclusive state to provide that funding. I think the other news that comes along with Idaho, again, this is as an outsider because, to be honest, I didn't find out Idaho was a state until I had to move around. My whole state is Idaho when I was moving here. I think that, you know, are a lot of things you hear about the first thing you hear about Idaho, if you if you Google it, depending on where you Google from, because that matters as you hear about the Aryan Nation.

So, you know, just knowing that there's type of hate groups, it doesn't matter what type is another reason to not to feel safe to, live authentically. So I think there are a lot of queer people, looking for each other, and it proves it to see how many people I have at the youth group from different rural areas of Idaho, or people that get to come to events like pride and the prom and all these other things that pay for hotel rooms to do that, that will likely do it in their own city.

If there was an ability to if there was a physical space that safety could be guaranteed, they will participate.

You know, people.

And not only that, there is one of the, he got here. I'm gonna say, elder. He's got to hate that. But there is a person that has been doing this work in Idaho since the 80s who is there every Saturday between 10 and 12, if you ever have want to have a conversation. So any of my questions about history, that was the person I went to to learn things and to find resources.

His name is Javier Smith. He's a he's a wealth of knowledge about Idaho history.

Gabrielle Davis: Yeah, there are people willing to have these conversations not only people, but from history. And there are people currently out doing this work, trying to help people learn. There are there are folks for that. There are people that can be compensated because oftentimes queer people are asked to talk about their experiences for free or to help educate, people on how not to be homophobic or transphobic for free.

And the expectation is that since it's bad we should want to do it for free. When emotional labor is something, it's just like money. You can spend it if you doubt it. So there are people in the community doing this work. Yeah. I'm not a person who's starstruck like I've, you know, met famous people and I don't have a reaction, but the people I've met here that have been here to meet somebody who was a, activist and to have coffee with them and just have a conversation.

And I was new when I first start happened. I just reached out like, hey, okay, let's chat. And they were happy about it. To be acknowledged and to be able to share their story and to have somebody listen, listen, to understand versus listening to respond is a big deal and can have a positive impact on you and the person you're talking to.

Doug Exton: And, Gabrielle, do you actually want to talk to me more about the community center, such like where it is, and then also what services are available at the community center?

We put up counselors, our mental health conditions. And those, counselor have been, suggested by people who have used them versus the counselor suggestion themselves. Like I'm affirming. So that's one place we have a food pantry. They just expanded it. So if people who are in need can go there and get food. So we have, for the youth group meets there.

Or a number of different groups can meet there, but it's open to the community, for different events. The website has a public calendar, so you can use it that way. The community center is all ran on donations. We don't get any funding at all from the government, so we stay open month by month to month with donations, for them from the community.

Doug Exton: So I think that's definitely a great resource that Boise has. And it's just nice to hear that there's so many different services available there. We have another question that just came in. So it's geared towards Cheryl, given Idaho's, recent stance towards various issues, have you had any pushback with your oral history project or collecting any materials for like, minority groups or other, groups similar that have been marginalized?

Cheryl Oestreicher: Not exactly like, no. I think, you know, it's not everyone knows what we have, so they don't know to push back on it. However, the the oral histories have been publicly available online for. I was going to look this up for years, maybe. And the and everyone who participated knew they were going to be online, you know, the signed agreements and everything.

But unfortunately, some of those people experienced harassment because of that. So we had to redact the names of some of the people. And because you know, our goal is not to encourage any of that. Our goal is to help people learn and educate and there are some unfortunate experiences, and I, I can't speak to all the details, but I know other things have happened across campus as well.

And and of course in the community too. And that but it's no one has come out and said you can't collect anything like that. And we, you know, we we do try to this is what archives in general tried to do in a lot of places is collect the voices of underrepresented groups because for so many centuries, really, it was about dead white men, as we affectionately call people.

You know, we have, a large collection about our Japanese internment camp at Minidoka. And, you know, we use that and talk about the racism that occurred because of that. And, you know, so it goes on and on. And all of these are so interconnected because really, it's all about human rights. And that's, that's that. But yeah, I.

Gabrielle Davis: That's that intersectionality piece that we, we, we tend as humans leave out the, the conversation. You know, when we talked about like all of the clubs and the balcony history, the balcony and how monumental it was only because we had the balcony have the balcony and all those things. You know what? That isn't the that's the opinion of the majority.

But when you are somebody with intersecting identities. So for me, I'm obviously a Black person. Can't take that off at night, can't hide it. And I'm a queer person. So I could go to the balcony and feel affirmed in my queer identity. But my experience racism because, again, intersecting, marginalized identities, you know, that that's how it how it is.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Yeah, to add to that, to, you know, the history, it does repeat itself. And that's something that we want to, you know, the more people learn or educated are aware of that history, the less likely we hope is, you know, it is repeated.

Gabrielle Davis: And that's a good I mean, that that thought is good. We know that the work involved and it can't only be white queer people. We know that, you know, the work involved can't only be with, with black people or any marginalized group that it takes the the work off of everyone to help. And we do that by, you know, participate in allyship.

Doug Exton: And then are there any Idaho, women whose experiences have been recorded and documented that are predominant within the history of Idaho?

And, you know, one collection that we have that I think, is, you know, one of the more recent LGBTQ collections we've acquired, although we've had it for a while, is, Nicole LeFavour. So the first openly gay Idaho legislator and, you know, and she's not done working either. So we'll get more and, you know, some of that.

And so it's, you know, it's also interesting because part of it is what work she did before that led into how she did her work with environmental activism, LGBTQ issues and all kinds of things. And so and then you, you know, you take her and others and you place them within the context. We have a few other female politicians.

So what did they do in previous generations and how did it change? You know, so it's it's always good to look at that. But, you know, there's just a lot of voices that are still missing that, you know, we do what we can and we try, but, you know, it kind of never ends.

Doug Exton: And then do the other universities also have our cancer collections with a focus on the LGBTQ communities, or is it mainly focused within Boise as the capital?

Cheryl Oestreicher: That's a good question. And I actually don't know the answer. I think I'd be happy to find out. But I, I am not sure. One thing that archives do is we try to put at least information about our collections on websites and everything, so there's ways you could possibly look it. I also, I'm not quite sure what the Idaho State Archives might have and other places, you know, and this is one of the things that archives do too, is that there's a lot of hidden history in other collections.

And so we have some that are absolutely your family, friends and neighbors. Nicole Community Center, all of these that are clearly about LGBTQ issues. But then you have other collections that might have some of that in there. But unless we highlighted and make it well known, you know, it's hard it's sometimes hard to find that. And, you know, we have.

A lot of politicians papers. And so depending on what years those covered, there might be some things about legislation in there. And you know, so and that's one of the things that we're trying to do too, is uncover those, those things that are hidden so that we can bring them. And then actually, you know, make them more usable and accessible.

But it also takes a lot of work.

Gabrielle Davis: I'm happy that's your job, Cheryl and not mine.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Oh, yeah. I'm of bit of.

Gabrielle Davis: Fun for me.

Cheryl Oestreicher: I know it is. It takes a lot, but it's it's a lot of fun. And, you know, for me, it's because I. Oh, one of my favorite things about being an archivist is that I learn something every day. You know, whether I'm looking at a new collection, someone asks a question, whatever it might be, and, and that is just invaluable to me.

Doug Exton: And then another thing for the participants who are curious, we have an attendee that recommended the Layton County Historical Society. They might have an oral history collection or just checking in with their local county historical societies. They might have more specific records or histories for whatever county you're interested in.

Cheryl Oestreicher: I if I can add to that, I know, University of Idaho has a bunch of Latah county oral histories that has amazing search capabilities and across all kinds of topics. It's a really fantastic collection. I use it as a model, you know.

Doug Exton: And then one thing that I'm personally really curious in, so that's a little selfish question, but what would you say would be like the hot the hallmark moment in LGBTQ history within Boise for both of you? Since history is experienced, depending on the person,

Gabrielle Davis: Hallmark usually denotes something good.

Doug Exton: Or call out moments. I should say that.

Gabrielle Davis: I would say. The anti-trans athlete bill that was just passed. A lot of people, queer folks were pretty upset, specifically trans folks, because there's a lot of discrimination within the LGBT community against, trans folks. It was pretty disheartening. But my initial reaction was not shock. It was not shock. And I think that, I had some anger and my anger was yes, we know that Bill was created to intentionally harm trans people.

It's very clear why the bill was made. However, nobody looked at the other impacts, which is interesting because both Idaho government, US government seem to be pro economics versus people. Right? You know, and as we see in the recent weeks, the things that has come from passing that bill. So, you know, the money that comes into Idaho for sports is astronomical.

Kids are cool. So what happened if I, accused of being a trans girl? Does Doug now have to get a physical exam to look at their genitalia to determine that? And I might know that Doug isn't a trans girl, but because I'm petty, because I'm a child, that might be the case. So it's likely to hurt more cisgender girls than trans girls attempting to play sports.

So I think it was really sad to know that nobody read. You know, that's the first thing I'm like, so nobody's reading bills in the entirety. And for Idaho to be a such a say, it focused on, economics and ability for, Idahoans to make money and prosper financially, the amount of money they're losing just from sports now.

And now, people with state funded travel from California. Idaho is banned. They won't pay. So, you know, I know Idaho doesn't like California as it seems to be the thing. Because first thing they asked, migrating from, you know, so yes, less Californians will be coming. Well, you know, we'll be coming here for work, which again, we're at Idaho is likely benefiting from that work.

So it's no travel. They've banned state travel from California to come here. So it's interesting what other states do that too. So we're losing economically in order to to to hurt the few trans people that want to play sports.

It it was sort of public but not quite public. And it was groups, a group of people, kind of they have been getting before the festival kind of started. They had been getting together and meeting and stuff before that anyway. And then, you know, made it more public and which was great. And then that led into the, you know, things like proposition one, because suddenly, you know, if you keep it hidden, then, you know, no one cares quite as much sometimes because it's not visible.

But then suddenly everything was more visible. So then all this legislation started happening, and it wasn't just in Idaho like proposition one that was happening, you know, across the country in, several states. And, you know, that was defeated. And then it led into we're going to work towards this and then, you know, so it's like always forward and then a little bit back, you know, hopefully keeping moving.

But it's all so related. It's hard to take as a historian. It's hard to take just one part. And and think about that. But I think yeah, with that bill, I just, you know, with things like, game, you know, gay marriage being legalized and then and the recent Supreme Court decision with including, rights for the LGBTQ community and the 1964 Civil Rights Act, you know, and then how is that going to fit in?

How is that going to affect it? You know, going forward? And so it's all, yeah, but I think, you know, we just keep working.

Doug Exton: Yeah. And I, I fully agree with that as well. It it's it is hard to isolate one moment, especially with a lot of recent legislation that has been passed well on a state level, but also the federal level. Do you mind talking more about the Boise boys? Because I've actually never heard of that.

But part of it was, this is what the US wanted to present to the world as we are this amazing and perfect kind of place. And so anything that didn't fit within that ideal was considered, you know, bad, wrong, you know, thinking of you know, all those, Hollywood people that were accused of communism and excommunicated from, the industry.

And, and so, you know, this was one of those things, but it was also, again, when homosexuality was considered a mental illness and thought it was bad, people were accused of having relations with underage boys. And so and it was all about men, you know, so the women weren't part of this, at least that I know of.

And people were interviewed, some people were arrested, some got prison sentences. If you go to the old pen, they have some information to about some of those prisoners. But, you know, it was it was conduct like lewd behavior and, and those kinds of things. And it was it made national news at the time and lasted a couple of years.

You know, people don't really. And that's when that's where some of the hidden, the history gets hidden too. Is that people don't want to talk about it because they're embarrassed or ashamed. And some of it is that, you know, or that it was just too traumatic to, you know, there's there's all those different things. So it's kind of this, just weird.

I actually don't know if any of those people went on to write anything. I'm. I'm not positive. It's. I'd have to look that that's a really interesting question. And I can't say I all I can say is that there, to my knowledge, there are no not a lot of records about it. You know, mostly what what occurred in the Idaho was published in the Idaho Statesman.

And, you know, I'm sure that there's some legal documents out there, but there's not a lot else about it. So it's still kind of a unclear all the all the different facets of it. But, you know. Yeah.

Doug Exton: And, where do both of you see, living in Idaho ten years from now and like, being queer, what do you see? Life like?

I can't remember the.

Doug Exton: Most livable city.

Gabrielle Davis: Most livable city. And I wonder who the people were they? Polen. I bet it was cisgender, straight white people. That they polled for that livable. You know, the cost of living is low, but you you don't have some of the services like transit and things like that that you need to, to get around. But until it's one of the most inclusive cities or equitable cities to live in, I don't think it would be the safest place for queer people to be.

Unless you have money. Money is a there's always a guiding principle when it comes to safety.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Yeah. What I hope for, because I of course wish I could make that kind of prediction, is that as the different generations grow up, they don't notice all of the differences in the same way, and that it, it's, I don't know how to I, I'm, I'm not sure exactly how to explain it, but, you know, it's like, so, you know, there will be a generation who will never know that gay marriage was outlawed.

And so there's different kinds of things as more as and like with the youth, I think that because, you know, a lot of reactions to it is fear and it's fear of the unknown and not understanding and not being aware of whatever it might be. And so I think as it's more in the is it as it's just discussed more and everything and that hopefully some of that can be overcome, you know, it will always be, it will never completely go away.

Gabrielle Davis: I think it's also important that, you know, in ten years we have the generations, you know, just speak of, about they have lived through so many different types of trauma right now and they're fired up. You know, it's a lot of people that are just fired up because they just realize that racism never left right now since the, you know, the recent murders.

But these people have been traumatized their entire life. They went through all these school shootings recently. Of course, there were more before that, but the school shootings were H1N1, COVID, marriage, you know, the same gender marriage being passed, like all these things and seeing all these things play out in so many parts of history that they're alive.

During my generation, it wasn't like that. Where do things. Absolutely. But so they live in traumatized their life is they've lived through so many different types of trauma. They're all they're ready. They're ready. Like, what is the next thing? Let's go. So I feel energized from them. You know, even in Idaho, we have lots of queer community organizer.

They aren't just organizing for the queer community. Nisha Newton has done so much for the queer community, and they just recently graduated college with the undergraduate. So these are young folks that's doing this work, doing this work free, you know, unfortunately free there are already and they're getting other young folks to to join, you know, so I think the, you know, young people, are helping the generations before that and will make the generations after them even better than before.

Doug Exton: And kind of, building off of that, do you think the, marketing standpoint that Boise has, as the, the best place to live in the most livable city in Idaho comes from the aspects of, like, white flight happening now to Idaho, since Idaho is a predominantly, white state by demographics, I well.

Cheryl Oestreicher: I have no evidence exactly of this, but, you know, the whole California thing, you know, a lot of the people are leaving the liberal California or, you know, this is a generalization. Anyone can prove me wrong because they want to be in a more conservative place. So that's, you know, where some of not all of them, of course, where some of that has happened because it's, you know, California is in a lot of ways more progressive and has led the way on uncertain things.

And, and if, you know, they don't agree with that, that they want to move somewhere else. And so they're there is some of that, I think, you know, some of it is people wanting to escape, or leave bigger cities and bigger places and more crowds and that kind of thing. You know, there's so many factors, I think, that go into it.

I came here for the job. So it's, you know, that was that was my motivation. But I think that's a real I, it's so hard to pinpoint. And you have to look back so far and I will say as a, you know, a little bit of a side note, the whole Idaho Iowa thing too. I have actually found something from the 1940s where someone mixed up Idaho and Iowa.

And I think only time will tell how it'll turn out.

So location. Nothing came up for me. It said the city of trees, no, not land. Also, I was there and I'm like, well, that wasn't accurate, but I know it's not here now, but you know, it depends on where you researching from, because Aryan Nation Coeur d'Alene was the first thing that came up. When I Google Coeur d'Alene when I got here.

It's so beautiful pictures. Yes I had to, I had to go to like the third or fourth page on Google to learn about the Aryan Nation and Alina, Idaho has the most hate groups in America still. So you know these are the white flag. Yes. I, I don't think that I think some people come here just for conservative because it's a conservative state.

But most conservative states usually come with a large predominance, of white people. And then someone, asked, can someone speak to creating supportive environments for the queer community and other minority groups, academic whites? Yeah. So.

And I think that will look even more different because, the legislature passed and, anti affirmative action bill. Again, this is one of those bills where I think nobody decided to do the reading involved in it. A lot of people think anti affirmative action has something to do with black people getting jobs in the white people.

Cheryl Oestreicher: I will say to with the Gender Equity Center, it was only 4 or 5 years ago that it was known as the Women's Center. So it started as that. And then they changed to, because it wasn't just about women anymore from when it first started that they wanted to do that. And I know we're running out of time, but I do want to answer jump to the other question, if I can, about.

Cecil Andrus was our last Democratic governor. And his office ended in 95, his second two terms. And so it's oh, it was so much back then. It was less about partizanship. I mean, there was always some of that, but it was it was a different it was a different world. And and now I want to go interview all those politicians to find out how that would have affected them.

Doug Exton: And I think that's another important to know to pull away is history is still happening. And there's always more to learn from history as well as context doesn't matter. So while Boise might have been small in the timeframe, but because it is small, events like that can have a larger impact on Boise history specifically, whereas on a national scale, it might not really have as much of an impact.

What did it look like in the northwest? What did it look like in the West? What did it look like nationally? Because that helped feed the conversation and understanding. To get the comprehensive view.

Doug Exton: And we are unfortunately out of time. But I did want to say thank you to everyone that attended, but also both of you for taking time to, join us tonight and help with this conversation.

Cheryl Oestreicher: Yes. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. And thank you to everyone who came.

Gabrielle Davis: Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having us.

Doug Exton: Okay. I'm. Night, everyone.

Cheryl Oestreicher: All right. Bye.