Context Podcast Digital Collection

Doug Exton: So thank you, everyone for joining me for today's Connected Conversation, a program conducted by the Idaho Humanities Council. If you're not familiar with our organization, I encourage you to check out our website, Idaho humanities.org. I'd like to remind everyone that they may submit questions using either the Q&A feature or the chat, and with me today is Anne Stanley from the Stonewall National Monument.

It's such an honor to have you with us today, and I'll let you introduce yourself.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Hi, everyone. I'm Ranger Anne and I am a park ranger at Stonewall National Monument, which is part of the National Park Service. I'm going to share my screen.

And see.

Okay.

See, folks?

Can you see it?

Doug Exton: Yeah.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: So, I'm Ranger Anne my pronouns are she, her and hers. And I am a park ranger with Stonewall National Monument. I want to thank you for joining me virtually today for this PowerPoint presentation about Stonewall National Monument.

There are over 400 National Park Service sites in the U.S. and the U.S. territories. And within Manhattan, there are nine sites. One that we'll be talking about today is Stonewall National Monument.

So when you think about Stonewall, you think about a lot of different things. This picture kind of depicts what a lot of people think about, you know, the treatment of LGBTQ people in the United States, specifically here in New York. It was almost illegal to be any part of the gay culture. So I use gay in the historical sense.

So you could be arrested for not wearing the correct clothes that matched your gender identity. You could be arrested for hanging out somewhere. That was known to be a hangout for LGBTQ people. You could be arrested for any de facto, crimes. Just for. It's almost like disturbing the peace. And so when you think of Stonewall National Monument, if you've actually been here, a lot of people think it's just Christopher Park, in the village, but it is actually the footprint of the park, the footprint of the Stonewall Inn and 7.7 acres of the streets and sidewalks where the riots actually spilled out.

And so and so that is shown on the map. So it's a little larger than you would think. So there was no out there was just in we're going to go through a couple of different things about how it was to be LGBTQ. Before Stonewall. A lot of people were really scared about the outcomes of being LGBTQ because not only were you discriminated against, and it was illegal, basically, as I said, to be any part of the gay culture.

When you were arrested for any of those crimes back then, they routinely would print your name and address in the newspapers, making it really hard for you to then keep your job. If your job found out that you have been arrested for any of those, then you would most likely be fired pretty quickly and then it would be hard to get another job.

And so this is even after Stonewall. So imagine, what it was like to be before Stonewall. This doctor, was worried about speaking out against that, because of what could happen.

And so. As I said, you know, a lot of people were really scared of being arrested. And even, like, a lot of the photographs that we have of people before Stonewall, in the community who were arrested, you know, you can see that they're hiding their face because there are their name and address is already going to be printed in the newspaper, and they don't want any more recognition than they're already getting.

So they wanted to, you know, dress, respectively. You can see that they're wearing, like, slacks and ties. The women are wearing dresses. They're trying to show that the LGBTQ community is not very different. And that they fit in and they should be accepted. And then, you know, there are other people who decide that they don't need to fit in and that they're going to be themselves.

As you can see in this photo.

Okay. And then Julius' sit-in, which happens, just around the block from the Stonewall Inn. This is the marching society. They decide that they are going to to, protest the liquor license, in New York, which bars could only receive a liquor license if they agreed not to openly serve homosexuals? So, the marching society said they were going to protest this, and so they decided to get a photographer on board, and they're going to go from bar to bar to bar in New York City openly declaring that they are homosexuals and, and then trying to order drinks.

So the first few bars, they actually were served and they were kind of shocked about it, and they were like, oh, this isn't going the way we wanted it to. So then they just go to the next bar. So they get to Julius's. And as you see in the photograph, they were denied the drinks. And so this, you know, the photographer took the photograph, it was printed in this got a lot of media attention, and it actually did eventually lead to overturning that law.

So that's going to be one of the early victories for the LGBTQ community. In this photograph, was against, you know, the police brutality against the LGBTQ community. Really just awful things. You. Yeah, I'm sure, you know, if you're of the age that you were around before Stonewall, you know, people of those community were just not treated very well, by the police, by their peers, by their employers, about just everyone.

And so that's what this photograph shows. And then changing times in the 60s, protest culture change and inspirations. So really quickly, we're going to go through some of so the, the times in the 60s were changing, but it didn't seem like it was going fast enough. And so the LGBTQ community is going to take a lot of their, strategies from the African American civil rights movement.

And so as I talked about with Julius' sit in that was, in homage to the African American sit ins. And so a lot of the leaders of the, African American civil rights movement then were also part of the LGBTQ community, civil rights movement. So these are kind of happening at the same time. And there's, you know, in the 60s, there's a lot of protests, there's a lot of riots.

And so this was very common for a lot of different groups that were looking for their rights and their freedom. So the LGBTQ community, in their struggle for civil rights, they were not alone.

So then, we're going to talk about the actual Stonewall uprisings.

So I want you to imagine that it is June 1969. It is extremely hot. There has been a lot of activity going on, with the LGBTQ community that we talked about before. There are some organizations, that were already formed before Stonewall. So we have the managing society. We have the dollars of leaders. And so for years and years and years, the LGBTQ community was being oppressed.

Not, you know, not everyone. Every single time was being oppressed. But, raids on gay bars were extremely common. As I said, almost anything to do with the gay culture was illegal. Including in New York City, serving alcohol to anyone who was openly a homosexual. And so the Stonewall Inn was a little different than a lot of the other gay bars in New York at the time, because a lot of the other bars did not allow dancing, but the Stonewall Inn did.

And so to allow that, they actually would black out the windows so that there was more privacy inside the bar. So people felt a little bit more comfortable. Although it still got raided pretty often. They felt comfortable that anyone just walking by wouldn't be able to see them. They could be themselves just a little bit more. This was also, you know, a really big monument already within the gay community.

And Christopher Park, which was right across the street from the Stonewall Inn, was also a landmark for the LGBTQ community. Unofficially. But that's where a lot of young, LGBTQ youth would hang out a lot of the youth, in the community would be either kicked out of their homes, when their families found out that they were LGBTQ or they were forced out of their homes, or they ran away because they were scared of what would happen.

And so Christopher Park, which is right across from the Stonewall Inn, you can kind of see it in the reflection. Was kind of a safe haven for them. And so.

And so they would look at the, gender on your ID and if it didn't match what, you were expressing. So, like, your hair, your makeup, your clothing, then you would be arrested. So this, fairly targeted the trans community. And so a lot of people, you know, if the police officer couldn't tell if you matched your ID or not, they would actually take you into the bathroom and they would make you either pull down or pull up your clothing, to actually check, which is super, humiliating and just not fair treatment at all.

And so as the police are doing their sex check, everyone who, does match, they're free to go. And it was a simple as if your clothing, if you didn't have three articles of clothing that matched your identity on your ID, you were arrested. So right now, I am wearing the normal park service uniform, so I'm wearing, like, a zip up sweater.

Jacket, slacks. I'm not wearing heels. I'm wearing boots. So right now, if I was in the Stonewall Inn in 1969, I would actually be arrested because I'm not wearing a dress or skirt or heels. So just to show you how strict it could be. So as they are letting some people go, the people are waiting outside to see if their friends that are still inside, if they're going to make it out or if they're going to be arrested.

And so as the police start bringing people out to the paddy wagon to be arrested. Some people are vamping it up and they're trying to make the crowd laugh, and they're trying to make a show out of it. A lot of these people, if they're being arrested, they've been arrested before. So this is not the first time.

Other people, as they're being brought out, they're trying to run from the police. And so there is a pretty large crowd outside of, the inn at the time. And so when a lesbian who was wearing a suit was roughly tackled to the ground right in front of the crowd, she yells out to the crowd, why don't you guys do something?

And that really just sets off a spark against the whole group that had formed outside. And there was only a few police officers, because these raids were pretty common and they didn't face a lot of, backlash most of the time. And so the police, you know, they didn't come in large numbers, which was normal. But the crowd greatly outnumbered them.

And so that when, we believe it was Stormy, when Stormy says that to the crowd, the crowd decides that, you know, this, they've had enough that they are not going to take this abuse anymore, that they're going to fight, for themselves and for the community. And so they all kind of get together and they start pushing back against the police enough that the police officers actually have to run back into the Stonewall Inn, and they barricade themselves inside because it basically had blown up into a full blown riot.

So you can see the damage that had happened to some of the furniture inside the Stonewall Inn. The crowd actually pulled up a lamp post, from the ground and tried to use it as a battering ram, against the Stonewall Inn doors. So they were very fierce. And here's a picture of Stormy.

And as the crowd is pushing back, the police call for tactical police, which are kind of like, the riot police that we would call them today. So they show up, and when they show up, the crowd has already grown. All of the youth that were staying in Christopher Park had jumped the fence, and they had joined in with the community, other people who were walking by or joining in.

But as you saw on one of the earlier slides, the streets around Stonewall are kind of curved. And so it's easy for you to just take a street and then come right back to the Stonewall Inn. Whereas a lot of the rest of New York City, they're just straight, you know, blocks, and it's a little harder to get all the way around.

It's much easier, and it's almost like a maze in the village. And so the locals actually were able to just kind of run down the street, turn around and come right back behind the police as they were trying to push people up. And so they, the locals knew the streets a lot better than the police did.

And so this went on for hours, just chasing people down the streets, having them come back around until about 430 in the morning when the police, the protesters, people from the community, just everyone was tired. And so everyone, at that point was tired. They're all kind of sitting around just next to each other and they end up just dispersing.

But they decided that they did not want to let this. Their victory, as you see here. They they had won. The LGBTQ community had won, and they knew that if they stopped, if they stopped together, they could actually fight the police. And they wanted to use this momentum, but not everyone wanted to use the momentum.

This was written by the managing society on the window of the Stonewall Inn, and it reads, we homosexuals plead with our people to please help maintain peaceful and quiet conduct on the streets of the village, not a scene. And so the managing society, like a lot of the other earlier, LGBTQ groups and organizations, they were a little bit more conservative.

They're trying to fit in to society so that, you know, they have, they're just like everyone else. But after Stonewall, a lot more radical groups come out of it and they decide that, you know, being peaceful and being quiet and trying to fit in is not working. And so they want to continue protesting and they want to become, a little bit more radical to get their their rights and their freedoms.

And so what happens is how are they going to get the word out that they want this momentum to continue? There were no cell phones. There was no social media. And so what they decided to do is they printed fliers that, talked about what happened and what they wanted to come out of it. And this also and they distributed it, to different people.

And this this helped, call people back to Stonewall and Christopher Street. For the next several nights, it was about six nights of rioting. Some nights were more peaceful than others. It just depended on how many people showed up and who showed up. But it it lasted for quite. You know, compared to some of the other riots.

It lasted a pretty long time. And there were ends up being hundreds of people that show up on multiple nights. And this ends up getting a lot of media attention, which wasn't common. Very, for other riots. So this is the Village Voice. And this went nationwide about this uprising. So not only was it the LGBTQ community in New York City that was aware of this, but this was all throughout the nation.

Okay. And so as the movement strengthens, this is the Gay Liberation Front. So they are coming out of the Madison Society. They decided that the Madison Society was a little bit too conservative, for them. They decided that they wanted to be a lot more public. And they would do a lot of different stunts to get media attention because they knew that the media attention was going to help further their cause.

And then, Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, of course, are going to create Star, which is an organization that's going to help, trans and gay youth. Specifically, it's one of the first organizations of its kind. So we see Marsha here. And then Lavender Menace. Lavender menace. Basically, lesbians were being left out of of this, the women's rights movement.

Because the organization, decided thought that, you know, lesbians were kind of taboo and they didn't want either their support or anything, because they thought they would be lumped in with them and that it would hinder the women's rights movement. So what the lavender meant. And so the president actually called them, of the women's rights movement, called them lavender Menace.

So they decided that they were going to print t shirts with that name on it, and they were going to wear them proudly. And so what they did is they went to one of the conferences and they shut off the lights, and then they had been wearing other t shirts on top of their lavender t shirts. And when the lights come back on, they were hundreds of lesbians wearing these t shirts, showing them that, you know, we are here and we should be involved and, you know, women's rights is going to help everyone, all of the women, including lesbians.

So that stunt with, you know, a few other sons actually helped get lesbians more, awareness within the civil within the women's rights movement. And they were never left off of the agenda since that year. And then come out. So different magazines are going to start coming up. And so they're trying to get the word out. They're trying to tell people in the LGBTQ community, like, you're not alone, that there is actually a very large community of us.

And so if we start sticking together and we start organizing, we can actually make this movement, and continue it farther. So, newspapers specifically for the LGBTQ community, like, come out. And then to mark the one year anniversary of the Stonewall uprisings. They held the Christopher Street Gay Liberation Day march, which started, right past Stonewall.

And so just a few hundred people show up. And they weren't even sure if they were going to make it to Central Park when they started. So they start marching, which was still even after Stonewall, it was a little dangerous to do that so openly. You didn't know if the police were going to come arrest you?

If they were going to harass you as people on the street, we're going to try to beat you up. So it's still, you know, really brave for them to do this, even though they have a few hundred as they're making their way. It was 3.3 miles to Central Park. They at some points, you know, they're not sure what's happening behind them.

And so they're just going to keep going forward. At some points they're actually running because they're a little scared of what, you know, could happen to them. 3.3 miles is a really long way to march. So openly. But as they look behind them, more and more people are actually joining them. And so this was a combination of a lot of the different organizations that we've already talked about.

Star Gay Liberation Front, lavender menace. This is one of the first times that, managing society as all of them converge onto this 1st March. And so they do make it. They do make it all the way up to Sheep's Meadow, which is in Central Park. And when they make it there, it is thousands. It's estimated to be about 10,000.

So that's the impact of Stonewall. So it didn't happen overnight. And there were things that happened before Stonewall. But Stonewall, the one year anniversary this March specifically, is what is really going to cement Stonewall into the LGBTQ history. And so they all come together and they have speeches, and they see how many, people are in this community and that if they stick together and they fight for their rights, that they could actually make a difference.

And so, you know, gar is another group, and they're known for their kind of theatrical, performances to get media attention. Again, media attention is going to be really, really important during this movement.

And then p flag, which is another organization, for parents and for activist or for allies, to join in. This was created. And so, you know, they're saying that you don't have to be part of the community to join us and to fight for, you know, our rights. And so p flag is going to be important to try to help get other people involved as well, not just the LGBTQ community.

The rising tide. So remember this, doctor. So this was 1972. He was worried, because he was speaking out openly against, being gay as a, mental illness. And so you would if you were diagnosed as gay. There were a lot of really horrible treatments that could happen to you. You could have like, shock therapy.

They could put you into a mental hospital. They could lock you up. And because of this doctor and the whole Stonewall movement, it was taken off the list of mental illnesses. So that was also a big victory for the LGBTQ community. And of course, there's going to be, in politics openly, LGBTQ people who are going to serve in politic who are also going to really help the movement move forward.

And, of course, we know with the current pandemic, that trying to find a cure is really important. And so when the Aids epidemic came, Keith Haring, it was really important. If you're not even willing to talk about gay culture, and you're not willing to talk about Aids, and you're not willing to even try to talk about finding a cure, and basically is a death sentence to the LGBTQ community.

But a lot of people, especially here in New York, they actually celebrated at Stonewall. And so Stonewall, you know, for a lot of these different victories that we just talked about, Stonewall is going to be a place where the community comes together and they remember their struggles, but they also are going to celebrate all of their victories.

But of course, it's not all victories. So this is the front of Stonewall after pulse, the pulse shooting in Orlando. And so this is going to be, you know, where people also come to stonewall to remember the tragedies that they're still facing.

So here's another photograph from that. And Stonewall is going to be designated in 2016 by President Obama, the first LGBTQ civil rights monument. As part of the National Park Service. And so this Christopher Park, Stonewall, the streets and the sidewalks, that's the actual designation. But the whole area around Stonewall has been a monument for this community for years.

Before Stonewall, after Stonewall. This is always going to be a special place.

And so for the federal government to now, you know, before Stonewall. Sorry, it's a little emotional.

And so it's really special for us. And so if you're interested, we have more information on our website. All of our social media. We're pretty active. And so you can follow us. But that is going to conclude our presentation on Stonewall today.

Doug Exton: Well, thank you so much for for the information and and you know, just being so vulnerable and honest. So we're going to move to the Q&A now. Now. And, let me there we go. The first question I had was what made Stonewall unique in terms of, the uprising housing there rather than in some of the other, other spots across the U.S. or the US?

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. So so Stonewall is going to be a little bit more unique, just because of how many people come not only that first night of the protest, but you know, for six nights, and then it ends up being hundreds and hundreds of people. And the thing that really solidified Stonewall is that annual march, which, you know, at first it is definitely it's 100% a protest and there's still fighting.

But now, you know that there have been so many victories. It has become more of what the pride march is today. So basically pride and Pride March is comes out of that, that first anniversary march, but that march with the 10,000 people, that is what's really going to solidify that all the organizations come together to remember Stonewall.

Doug Exton: And then I was also poking around on your website, and I was wondering if you could talk about about the Virtual Friends program that you guys have as well.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. So new this year. Around the fence at Stonewall, we have different photographs. Some of the photographs you actually saw in the presentation today. But as you walk around, they visually tell the story of Stonewall. And also if they have QR code. So if anyone's in New York, at any time for the next year, they'll be up.

And you can use the QR code to go to our website. And it will give you the actual information about the photographs, if you're not aware. But also if you want to just virtually view it. So if you're not going to come to New York, it is also virtually available. The photographs and the information on our website.

Doug Exton: And then one thing I just thought was really interesting is how there was such a mobilization with our, you know, social media, you know, because for me today, you know, for something like this to happen, I would think you need Twitter or Facebook for Instagram to make that all happen. So I was wondering if if like, how do you think it would play out today, you know, with social media and stuff like that?

If it was a similar kind of circumstance, do you think it would be even larger or would it probably still stick to more of those, you know, traditional methods?

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: It's kind of hard to say how it would have played out to, you know, in today. Because back then the fliers and the media was the social media, of our day. We're so used to like, you know, looking at our phones all the time. But back then, you were used to being handed fliers, like, now in New York City.

If you're handed a flier, you usually don't take it. But back then, that's how you got a lot of your news. So with social media also just being nationwide and worldwide, I think it would have had probably an even larger impact. But even back then, it had a pretty big impact, especially. That's why a lot of the organizations are looking for that media attention, because there was no social media to get attention, to get on the news.

That was a really big deal.

Doug Exton: You know, like there was no really growing viral back then.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Exactly.

Doug Exton: I mean, I was wondering if you can talk about, you know, some of the other things you guys do at Stonewall. You know, in terms of programs, you know, if someone wanted to get involved, you know, if anyone here listening is in New York, was visiting New York in the future, how can they, you know, engage and support?

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. So we have, you know, our social media. We do a lot of different events. This year is different because of Covid. So we're doing a lot more virtual events, which allows us to actually reach a larger and more diverse, audience. We get a pretty diverse audience in New York City, but for all the people who can't actually make it to the park, we're making a lot of our resources available on our website.

So we have the fence exhibit on the website. We have our Junior Ranger program available on our website. So it's usually for kids, but it can also be for adults. Any ages are welcome. You fill out a couple activities and then you just let us know that you finished it through email, and then we'll mail you a Junior Ranger badge.

So all the National Park Service sites have that. We also have when we are open, or when we're doing actual events in person. We have a lot of different cleanups and gardening events. At Christopher Park, we work with a lot of different organizations as well to do afterschool groups, with Moca and National Park Foundation. And so we also try to do a monthly special event, which unfortunately, we have not been able to do the last few months just because of not being able to do it in person.

And also staffing is a little bit low right now. But we're looking forward to celebrating the fifth anniversary this year, which is on June 24th. And so we'll have a few different little videos, on our social media and our on our website that kind of talk about the designation process. So how do you take a monument, that, you know, the community already has.

Stonewall was already a monument, to the community. How do you take that and transfer it over to the National Park Service so that it has federal protection? Federal rangers, and kind of what that process is, because it's a lot more in-depth and it's a lot more, inclusive of the whole community than I ever would have thought of.

And I work for the Park Service. So we're we're trying to just highlight, you know, kind of what the community wanted out of it. Because we take the community's input, like, super seriously because we're there for not only the community, but also, you know, the nationwide and worldwide community.

Doug Exton: And that's awesome that you're, you know, really highlighting that process because that's something I never would have thought of, you know, because to me, when I would think of, you know, going like with Stonewall, for example, it's already that informal monument. So you're essentially just, you know, acknowledging its existence. That's what I would think of it. So again, it's wonderful that you're kind of, you know, showcasing that process, you know, and how it really does, you know, come about.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. If you guys are interested, it's it's super interesting. It gets really technical because to be a national monument or any part of the National Park Service, it actually has to be, the land has to be controlled by the federal government. So it was a city park. So to take a city park, it actually had to then transfer over to federal property so that we and the city had to be willing.

And the Stonewall Inn, which is still privately owned and operated, it includes the footprint of the bar. So like under the bar, and the facade. So the front of the bar, so if it ever did go out of business, which it's booming, it's never going to go out of business. But if it ever did, the Park Service could actually come in and preserve the actual building, but they had to agree to it.

You know, a lot of people think we as the federal government, we're just like, oh, this is important. So we're just going to take it and we're going to preserve it. And that's not how it works. Like, we had to get so many different permissions and we had to do community board meetings. We had to know what the community wanted, and how they wanted us to tell them how we were going to give them what they wanted before they would transfer it over.

So it should be really interesting. We have a lot of really unique perspectives about it that you you would never hear otherwise.

Doug Exton: Yeah. And I think it's really cool that the community is so involved with it. You know, in terms of this is what we want, you know, how can you make that happen? Rather, you know, in the fact that, you know, you all at the Social Monument were able to make it happen as well? I think that's a really cool aspect because for me, when I think of, you know, the National Park Service, like you said in the beginning, you know, I think of Yellowstone, you know, those outdoor, you know, wilderness, so to speak.

I would never think of, you know, in the middle of New York City kind of thing. So I think it's really cool that you're able to, you know, balance all of that together.

And it looks like we don't have any more questions. So was there anything else you want to share with us about Stonewall? You know, either the events or the monuments left before we wrap up today?

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. We also, if you're interested in Stonewall, but you don't see yourself coming to New York, in the next, you know, months or years, or ever. I mean, if you don't like vacationing in the big city, on our website, on the front page, there's a large photograph that says Stonewall forever. And it has some cubes coming out of it that are multicolored.

That is our virtual experience. And so you can use that to view the actual, like monuments of the park and the in, and it also has stories associated with it. So stories that we put in as the Park Service, but also stories that visitors have put in themselves, they've put in, you know, different stories and different photographs.

So it's really interesting. And that was one of our really big projects, to make sure that Stonewall is actually accessible to almost anyone from anywhere, as long as you have internet.

Doug Exton: Also, thank you again for taking the time out of your day, you know, giving that wonderful presentation, you know, covering every aspect of it, the before, during and after.

Park Ranger Anne Stanley: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me.