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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: November 16, 1976 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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IONE ADAIR: "Uncle Sam" Owings, used to run the Times Democrat here in Moscow years and years ago, and he loved fishing, and he wanted to go fishing with us, and we went fishing. So my sister and I decided we'd break down once and take him with us. We took him up to Elk River and he caught sight of the bridge, the old bridge over the river, and he sat down with his pole by that bridge and fished like you would for cat fish in Carolina- that's where he was from- and he sat there all afternoon and fished that bridge and Marjie and I fished up and down the stream and we had a nice basketful of fish between us when we got through. Well,coming in Uncle Sam decided he'd sing for us. And we'd rather have him sing than smoke those old cigars that he smo ked. So, we told him to sing for us. We asked him if he knew any songs, "Oh, yes," he said, "I know a song." So, he started in before we left Bovill to sing, and he sang verse after verse after verse til we landed down here and put him on the lot where the employment agency is now. That was their home. And we let him out there with an empty basket and a song from Bovill to Moscow.

BERNADINE ADAIR CORNELISON: What was the song? You told me that once.

IA: I told you once, but I can't remember the name of the song. Verse af ter verse, after verse. Verse after verse, I think he must have made it up as he went along! It couldn't have been a song that long!

SAM SCHRAGER: He didn't catch any fish?

IA: No, just that old Southern way.

SS: He didn't catch any fish on the bridge?

IA: No, he didn't catch any fish.

SS: You'd think he'd learn from you how to do it. He'd want to go up and down the stream.

BC: He didn't like to move around much.

IA: He had fished in Carolina and he knew how to fish in Carolina; they were catfish, I think. He knew how to fish there, but he didn't know anything about going up and down the stream and watching the holes and watching for the fish and catching them when they got on. Didn't know a thing about that. He just waited for the fish to come and take his bait, and if they got on and got caught, why, he had a fish.

SS: Could you usually catch as many as you wanted to when you went fishing?

IA: Always we had our limit, if we didn't have some others tucked in under neath somewhere.

SS: No I don't think-

BC: Was there a limit in those days?

IA: Yes, there was a limit. Fifteen fish. And there was no size limit. You could have any size you wanted; any size you could catch. And there was no limit to fishing.

SS: Was it your father that taught you how to fish? Out there?

IA: Yes.

SS: You mentioned to me that you went on the streams with him.

IA: I always went with him.

BC: Wading.

IA: When he wanted to go fishing, I'd go with him whether any of the rest of them would go or not. I always went with my father fishing. And we always caught all of our fish that we needed. And Daddy and Dr. Hatfield fished for years up and down that old Elk River stream. They knew every hole and I think they knew all the trout by name! And if we caught Johnny today, we'd catch James tomorrow! (Chuckles) But, we'd drive up, we'd leave early in the morning so as to get up there just about daybreak, about the time the sun was up and we'd start fishing. And we were always through early. And we had great times fishing up and down there. My father had waders , and they came onto your feet, rubber, and came up above his waistline and then he got a And he'd take one hole and take anotner or if it was a big one, we'd both take the hole, but a distrubance in two places would cause the fish to bite a littlelower, a little farther down. And when we were fishing with angle worms, we did it that way, and when fishing with grasshoppers, we had to get out and spank our grasshoppers while it was damp in the morning before they began to get lively. They are always very stupid at night, and as soon as it gets cold, the grasshopper'11 fold up his wings and stay right down next to the ground where its warmer, and they'd spring as the warm air comes then they get up and climb up on the grass, and you take a flat piece of shingle or a flyswatter, if you had one, they're the things to catch them with, and we'd swat those grasshoppers and put 'em in a bait can and then swat the next one and put him in the bait can.

BC: Daddy used to raise worms in amulch down here; he raised his fishing worms.

IA: Under those old willow trees he put manure and leaves and then he would put coffee grounds and lettuce- wilted lettuce leaves, on top of that and then keep it covered so that nothing could get in and catch his worms. He had a kind of screen that went over the top of the tub and he kept all of his worms in the tub for going fishing. And when he went in the spring before the grasshoppers got lively, we'd fish with angleworms. And late in the fall you fished again with angleworms. And during the summer you fished with grasshoppers.

SS: What kind of fishing gear did you use?

IA: I had a collapsing pole. Daddy had- well, he got me one and then he got one, because he thought that I was catching as many fish as he did. Maybe his pole wasn't right. And so he got himself a collap sible pole. They slide down, one section inside of the other and when you pull 'em out you have a long sized pole.

SS: Easy for carrying?

IA: Yes, easy for carrying, when you're in the car or when you're going to the fishing grounds.

SS: Did you use a spinning reel? Or what kind of reel did you use on that?

IA: Just an ordinary ten cent spinning reel, from the Tri-State over here. Just anything to wind your line up on and keep it from getting tangled. And Dddy had a long one; his had a ratchet that would wind it up and a handle on it that you could wind it up. And his was a real spinning. And mine was just an ordinary ten cent reel. But I caught just as many fish as Dad did. (Chuckles)

BC: Caught more, lots of times.

SS: Were the trout big then?

IA: They were much larger than they were later, because the later ones were younger, and the ones that hadn't been caught the year before would manage to grow up. We were the first people that fished in Elk River.

BC: And that's another tale. You told him that once.

IA: I think I told you that about Theo Trumble's father inviting us over, and we went over to the Fourth of July celebration and fished for the first time in Elk River at the bridge that crossed ELk River there. He had sent East and brought in a lot of those Eastern brook trout and put them in Elk River and that was above the Elk River Falls, and the fish couldn't get up the falls; it was very hard fo r them and very few of them came up. And there were no fish in the stream when Mr. Trumble took up his homestead. So he sent back East to his old home and had a shipment of Eastern brook trout, and they put them in down by the bridge at Elk River there.

SS: And he wouldn't let anybody fish.

IA: He wouldn't let anyone fish.

BC: Started something.

IA: But, Mrs. Mc Bride asked my two sisters, Marjorie and Lulu and I out to spend the summer with her at her cabin on and while we were there Mr. Trumble sent word over that they were having a Fourth of July celebration at his homestead and asked us to come over. And we went over to the homestead, and while wei were there he told us that we could go fishing. And we were the first ones to fish in Elk River.

BC: Tell him about the first dandelions. Have you ever heard that story?

SS: No.

IA: Oh, that was in My father came West in the fall of '93 and that was the fall when we had so much rain that the farmers couldn't get in to get their wheat. If it was cut it was down and it couldn't be saved, and if it was sacked it was in the fields and they couldn't even get in to salvage the sacked grain. It sprouted right in the sacks. They couldn't get it. And, this old gentleman who had been in Kansas from quite near where my father had been practicing, found out that Daddy was from Kansas and he came up to make his ac quaintance. And than he invited Dad over to his place, and he said, "Doctor, do you like dandelion greens?" And Daddy said, "I don't know, I've never eaten dandelion greens. I've eaten beet greens and mustard greens, but never dandelion." "Well," he said,"you send the girls over and I'll give you a mess of dandelion greens." And Daddy said, "Where did you get dandelion greens?" He said, "I sent back to Kansas and got the seeds the dandelions. I'm raising dandelions for my greens." And that, I think, was the beginning of the dandelions in this part of the country. But that's how it happened. They lived over on Van Buren Street, just the other side where the telephone building is on Van Buren- isn't it? And on the left-hand of the street, beyond the telephone, on the left-hand side of the street, there was a house that stood up on a hill that had three separate buildings; there was a basement and the upper story and a story on top of that, and that's where this old gentleman from Kansas lived.

BC: Didn't you tell me his name was Andrews or Anderson?

IA: Andrews or Anderson, I'm not sure which.

BC: He started something.

IA: At any rate-

SS: Do you remember whether it was very hard on the local people that year after the harvest to get through the winter?

IA: Very. Very hard. My father had a house, it was on Jackson Street, right straight across from the Creighton- the back of the Creighton Building and there was a stairway that went down to the alley and we lived just across the alley from that stairway and Dad kept going back and forth every once in a while to see how Mother and the children were getting along. And he wasn't very busy up there at that time.

BC: They were bringing produce to pay their bills.

IA: He was paid entirely in produce that year. I don't think anyone had money enough to pay him. And when my father first came to the Creightons and took up his office upstairs, his sister from Johnson used to do his shopping in Moscow and she came over, came to his office, and asked him to go over and meet the proprietor of the Motter-Wheeler store, which was then where the " Building is now. That was the Motter-Wheeler store. So Dad went over with her and met Mr. Hooper and his clerks there at the store. A short time after that Mr. Hooper came over to the office and said, "Doctor, didn't I understand you to say the only relatives you have in this part of the country were Mrs. G ibson, your sister, at Johnson." And Dad said, "Why, yes, that's what I said." And he said, "Well, there is a gentleman over at the store who is outfitting a family of five children, and when he got all through and went to pay the bill, he said charge that to Doctor Adair." And Mr. Hooper said, "I just asked him to wait until I check with you, for I understood you to say that you only had the one sister with two children." And he said, "Yes." So Mr. Hooper said, "What'11 I do with the gentleman?" Dad said, "Just tell him, nothing doing!" He said, "I am a stranger in this part of the country and have a family of my own," and he says, "I'm not outfitting anyone's children but my own. And I'll do well to do that." So the children didn't get it. It was OP a family from Potlatch or Princeton here somewhere.

SS: I wonder what made him think he could use your father's name?

IA: The name happened to be the same. He was from a family of flclcW z up at Princeton.

SS: Oh, so he was pretending?

IA: He was pretending to be a relative of my father's. And that was the first time he'd been in town and he thought he saw a chance of out fitting the children for school that fall.

BC: That's a trick that these people have. California, there was two different stores charged things, supposedly to me and I'd never been in them. And they said that when someone new moved into the area, there's a certain class of people that go and take out the new name and write checks on them. And that's what happened.

IA: That was the fall when everything was so hard to get; and you just couldn't get anything.

SS: Do you know whether- remember whether your father and mother were dis couraged by that having happened as soon as they came to this country?

IA: Were they what?

SS: Were discouraged by the hard times as soon as they got here?

IA: Oh, yes, they were. We had a family that lived right across the street from us by the name of Lehman. And when my father opened up his office over the Creighton Building, he went down the street to see what he could find in the line of grocery stores, and he went into Mr. Lehman's store. And Mr. Lehman said, "Are you Dr. Adair?" And he said, "Yes, I'm Dr. Adair." "Well," he said, "you look enough likeAour family phy sician in Illinois to be Dr. Adair." And they stood and visited for a while and then asked him if there would be any chance of him having an account there until he could get it paid and straightened up. And Mr. Lehman said, "Why certainly, you can." So Dad entered an account at Lehman's Thrift Store on Main Street. And that's where the First Trust Bank is now. At that time there was a real estate of fice or something next to the corner and next to that was Mr. Lehman's grocery store and next to that was Hagen Christian's meat market. And we used to laugh at Hagen and Christian's meat market, because every time we had a wind storm, after we moved up into this big house here, the Museum, Hagen's would send his men up to gather up the wil low branches and take them out to smoke his meat with. And that's what he used for smoking the meat. And he gathered up all the branches all that winter.

SS: Do you know what made the family decide to come out here? Come to Mos cow:

IA: Yes. My mother. My father had this sister at Johnson, Mrs. Gibson at Johnson. And the big house that they lived when you Johnson- Have you been in Johnson?

SS: No. Just where is it now? What is it near?

IA: South. You go down past the old- I say, past the old Burns place, but that doesn't mean anything to you.

SS: Is it not too far from Linville, maybe?

BC: It's not that way.

SS: Is it toward Linville?

IA: Linville? No. Linville is southeast-

BC: You go west-

IA: And Johnson is southwest. You go out past- over South Main hill and you come to the first road that goes to your right - and we always say go past the old Hooper place and the Burns place- but if you don't know those places, you don't know them- and on down the road and you meet the road that comes in from Pullman, going down into Uniontown and Colton, and in through there, you meet that road and go down to Johnson on that. And Uncle John had a large house that was a quarter of a mile from the main part of what was then a town. I don't know whether it is much of a town now or not. But Uncle Johnbig mansion, it was at that time, was down a quarter of a mile from town. And our first winter there, we remember very plainly because it was a heavy, heavy fog all winter long. And it would come in sweeping over from Lewiston and the hill country and when it would strike the main street at Johnson, my cousins and my sisters and I would run down this quar ter of a mile and meet the fog and come in with it to the home.

BC: They didn't have fogs in Kansas.

IA: Oh, it was wet! We'd be wet when we got home, because the fog on our hair and on our clothes. But we met that fog every night, and run down that hill. And that was really something!

BC: New experience, for youngsters.

SS: But why did your parents decide to come here? Just because your fa ther's sister was living here?

BC: Mother was terrified of the storms in Kansas.

IA: You asked why he left Kansas. Dad had this sister living in the West and Mother was down, she didn't weigh a hundred— well, not much over a hundred when she came West. And there were those cyclones kept going across that part of the country, and the electric storms. And Mother was left alone so much with her three children and Dad would be out on calls, and she'd have to stand those electric storms alone. And it just terrified her. So Daddy said, "If it's too much for you, why don't we go West and settle in the West where Lyda and John are? And just start up again?" So they did. And Uncle John met them in Pullman and took them down to Johnson to his place and vi« lived there for a month or two months with Uncle John and Aunt Lyda on the farm and Daddy came up to Moscow and Pullman. And Uncle John said, "Which place do you want to try?" And Dad said, "Let's try Pullman first." So, everyone drove teams at that time, you had no cars, so he took the team and he took Dad and Mother in the buggy and drove up to Pullman. And Mother looked around Pullman and she didn't like the looks of the town. And they had an old uncle, Uncle Santo Shear /,that lived up on Univer sity Hill in Pullman, on the College Hill, and so they took Mother up there. Uncle Santo had a large lot and he said, "If you want to come to Pullman, I will let you have this lot and you can either sell the lot and use what you have to find aplace to live, or you can up here and I think you can find aplace to live in Pullman on the hill."

And Mother stood up there on the hill and looked down over Pullman from the College Hill, down on it, she says, "Dad, I can't take it." She said, "You'd be at your office; your office would have to be downtown, and you would be at your office, and you'd have to have the team to go to your office and I would be sitting up here on this hill with three little girls and no means of getting in out or away. I simply can't take it." So Daddy said, "Alright, let's go to Moscow and see what." So then they drove over to Moscow. And Third Street was the highest hill there was in Moscow that you could travel on, and they fcmUA hird street and around this part of town here and back and down on Main Street and Dad says, "Well, what do you think of Moscow?" She said, "I'll take Moscow anytime to Pullman." She said, "I can't take Pullman." So, they rented a little house down on Jackson Street right across from the alley behind Creighton's and Ve lived there one year. And at the end of the year, Mr. Hall, Johnny Hall, was a commissioner- county commissioner- and he had had ayoung son and hijs son was- needed attention, and he came to call on Dad to see if he could tell him what was the matter with the boy. Well, the boy had had, I presume, it was polio- in the early days they didn't call it meningitis, I think. And so Dad took care of the boy and got him feeling better, but he never got the full use in his legs, he always had to go in either a walker or a wheelchair. And Mr. Hall came to my father, and said, "Doctor, how would you like to have a nice little home up on Third Street?" Dad said, "Well, I'd like it." Says, What do you mean?" Well, he said, "The County Commissioners have just taken over a little home on Third Street for the taxes." And, he said, "If you would like to move up and be in that home," he said, "we'll make arrangements so that you can pay for it and can move up to the little home." So we did and we moved up onto Third Street in that- it's between Van Buren and Polk. One, two- it's the third house up, or coming this way it's the second house from the big, white house that stands on the corner. And we moved up into the little house on Third Street.

BC: And Mother five children and helpn and the little cottage was kind of small- and that's the reason Mother wanted the big house so bad.

IA: She always wanted a house largejenough that she could turn her family loose in it and not have to run around dodging them all the time. So she was always asking for a larger house. And finally Dad got the big place. I think I told you how he got the big place, didn't I?

SS: Yes, you did.

BC: Timber claim, he sold.

IA: This man at the bank-

BC: You told him that, Pinky.

IA: I'm sure I told you that.

SS: I was just wondering about that though. That man at the bank- he knew about this land out there. He knew that your father had it.

IA: Yes. He was a timber cruiser, and he knew my father had this timber out there the other side of Bovill, so when Mr. Payne, down at the of fice, asked him if he would like - he said, "You said you wanted a larger house, how would you like this big, white Mc Connell house?" And Dad said he'd like it, but he said, "I canlt take care of it. I couldn't pay for it." And Mr. Pierson was standing in the lobby and he heard my father say that he couldn't take care of it, and he knew that Dad had this land out there by Bovill, so he stepped up and said, "You have land out by Bovill, a homestead." And he said, "Yes." And he said, "I am working for the timber company and I would be glad to look it over. I'd buy the place," he said, "if you'll sell it to me and look it over and appraise it, with one idea in mind: And that is that I can have a room in that big house. I don't like living in a hotel." And so, Dad said, "Well," he said, "if you can buy my timber claim," he says, "and I can get the house, you can have a room."

SS: Did he stay for long in the house with you?

IA: Yes, we had him as long as the Potlatch Lumber Company was in this sec tion of the country, we had some of the Potlatch Lumber Company with us. And Mr. Pierson was the first one, and then his brother came followed him. And as long as the Potlatch was connected out here at the Bovill part of the country, and in the timber business, we had timbermen in that office, this little northeast office. They called it their office. And the bath was right on the floor and it wasn't far down to the hotels to get meals.

BC: I want to tell something to Sam about the little cottage out on Third Street, WSfother had five children and help, and the girl between me and my sister who died a few years ago, Flora, got diphtheria. Of course there were no hospitals and no way of- what's the word I want to use?- for somebody who's-

IA: No accommodation for sick people?

BC: hso terrifed that the rest of us would get it. Worried about quarantine. And I was about three then. I still can remember" cotlihe hung wet sheets up over each door. That was one way of hoping that the rest of us didn't get what she had, and we didn't. Now whether he had some anti septic on those or not, I don't know, but I can remember those sheets.

SS: Did she get over it?

BC: No. She got over the diphtheria, they thought that's what it was then, but we think it was probably a form of polio, because she got over the diphtheria part, but she was paralyzed and died shortly after She was about nine years older than I.

IA: Mother and I both had typhoid in Kansas. And my mother had typhoid and had been ill- she had- Uncle Tom Adair that lived out in the country about ten miles from Moline, the city where we lived, and he had a son and this son was chasing around all over the country and he stayed with us whenever he was in town. And he stayed there and he had typhoid and his father took him out to the farm and kept him there. But Mother got it after Clyde had had it and she was ill for a long time with the typhoid, and as she was getting up then I came down with it. And I had the typhoid when I was, I imagine about four years old, possibly five, but I wouldn't say for sure. All I can remember is " out in the sun by the side of the rainbarrel at the side of the house recuperating. And one of the neighbors brought me in when I was a child a great big doll. And I carried that doll around with me all the time. And I'd sit out there by that rainbarrel in the sun with this old doll waiting to get strong enough to get around and do things.

SS: Did you live in town in Kansas?

IA: Yes.

SS: In town?

IA: Moline. Kansas, yes.

SS: Moline?

IA: Moline. We lived in Kansas.

SS: When you came out here, did you have any money left to speak of when you got here? The family? Did he have savings?

IA: My father had sixty-five dollars in the bank when he got here in Mos cow. We came on the train and had to pay part of that out to have the drayman bring his books and take them up above Creighton's to the of fice. And W. 0. Griffin was the drayman at that time, and he was a big fellow; over six feet tall, and large in proportion. And he just picked up that barrel of books on his shoulder and toted it up the stairs and put it in the office. And Daddy said he didn't even puff! Which was most unusual.

Of coursesixty-five dollars in 1893, you would feel like you had a little nestegg.

Do you think many people left Moscow right then because of that bad year?

No, they couldn't leave. They didn't have money enough to leave. They couldn't have left. The farmers were out there and they had their land and they had to stay with it; they couldn't leave. We had lots of chickens!

I can rememberpeople used to bring in to us things from the farm when they would butcher. And they'd bring in spare ribs- but they would be so meaty- and backbone and it was so meaty. We would just love to have brought in.

SS: So you ate pretty well?

BC: Well, I wasn't born then.

SS: Oh.

IA: We lived well. I remember one thing; my mother had wanted a big kettle. She didn't bring : any cooking utensils or anything from Kansas with her because that was too hard to pack. Dad's books and his operating apparel and all, was all he could take care of. So she cut down on everything. And she wanted a big kettle in which to boil meat. And Dad went down to the secondhand store and he found a tig iron ket tle about that high and it had been at one time an enameled kettlewhite enamel ''ciz on the inside, and Dad didn't want to use it until he had that enamel chipped off so that he could scrub it and be sure that it was sterile inside. So when I'd come home from school, I was put down with a chisel and a hammer and I sat there and chipped away at the enamel on this old kettle until we got it down so that it satis fied him that he could get it sterile. And it was sterile!

SS: Hard work, too.

IA: Yes, it was hard work. Chipped away on that. And now I have an alumi num kettle, and I've been trying my best to get the deposit, the water deposit out of that aluminum kettle, and I can't get it out. And I used a screwdriver, putty knife and everything, and I chip away at that, Eventually, I suppose, if I don't put a hole through the teakettle I'll get it clean!

SS: You know, in 1893, I understand that Mr. Mc Connell went bankrupt, at that time.

IA: Yes, he went bankrupt. It shows on the abstract. I have the abstract she signed the bankrupt papers in order to save the home she took out bankruptcy, and saved the home place. And at that time it was this entire block with the exception of the corner that Mr. Mc Donnell had deeded to the Swedish Lutheran Church- where the church stands now. Where the Senior Citizens meet there and on the next cor ner- the other corner was a large livery stable. And from that livery stable Mr. Mc Connell run the funeral service, kept the hearse for the town and the hay for the horses and all in that large three story barn. The horses were kept on the lower floor and the hearse and the buggies on the second floor and the hay in the loft. And that was afterwards torn down and they built the parsonage there for the Lutheran Church. And the place wasn't quite large enough, they wanted to enlarge their church, and so Dad sold them off fifteen feet off of his end of the lot so the Lutherans could build their church that much larger. And that's how the addition was put onto the church. Later the barn was torn down and the parsonage was built there for the church.

SS: You know, I have heard of that during that hard time, that if Mr. Mc Connell had foreclosed on some of these people that were in trouble that he could have avoided going into bankruptcy, but he decided not to do that. Do you know if there's any truth to that?

IA: I don't know if there is any truth to it or not, but I don't doubt it, because he and Tom Mc Guire; Mc Connell-McGuire built this large building down here. And he had the big building, which was ren ted then to Mottern-Wheeler Company and he owned this place, and by Mrs. Mc Connell taking out bankruptcy papers he could save the house without any- what's that word?

SS: Liability?

BC: Why did he lose the house if she had bankruptcy on it?

IA: Huh?

BC: Why did he lose it?

SS: Lose it? He didn't lose it then, did he? Wasn't it much later?

BC: After- because it was vacant a long time and then Daddy bought it in 1900.

IA: She signed bankruptcy papers but that didn't keep him from losing the house. He eventually lost the house. But they'd filed on it so that they would save the one building. And Mc Guire- McConnell-McGuire on the big had to give that up. At one time, Davids had a small grocery store in the basement of the McConnell-McGuire Building here at what's now known as the And the man that lived next to us on Third Street was the man that run the grocery store for David's. And that's when Postum first came in. That's going back a long, long ways! Postum cereal was invented and Mr. Luton, is the name, Mr. Luton that lived next door to us, brought a package up for his wife to try, to see what it tasted like. And as youngsters are running around in the neighborhood, I wandered in at Mrs. Luton's breakfast and she was sitting there drinking Postum. And I said, "What are you drinking? Coffee?" She said, "No." It didn't look like coffee. And she said, "No, it's Postum. It's something new on the market, we never have heard of it before, and Mr. Luton wanted me to try it so he could recommend it at the store." And so she gave me a taste of Postum. I didn't dis like Postum. I wasn't used to drinking coffee very much, and Pos tum just tasted very similar to coffee. And so I said, "Well, I like that." She said, "Well, I'll see you get some." So she gave me a box of Postum. And I took it over. And at that time I had been having quinsy very badly and in every winter I had a spell of quinsy. You know what quinsy is? It's a swelling of your inside. An acute quinsy attack brings your tonsils up to an enormous size and then they finally gather and break like a boil. And so I had had so much quinsy trouble, and Dad didn't want me drinking coffee, and yet I wan ted something hot to drink. So when I took this package over they made Postum for me and I started in on Postum. At that time it was a cereal and came in a big pasteboard carton. And I got to drinking it and Dad said, "Let me try that." So he tried it, and he didn't dislike Pos tum, especially if you use a little cream in it. And he used sugar in his but I didn't care for the sugar, so I didn't use sugar. Well, we went that way for quite a little while in the winter. And Mother said, "I'm tired of making two pots of coffee for breakfast. I'm going to drink Postum." So she started in on Postum. Up until that time Mother had had periods of sick headaches every so often, she'd get one of these raging sick headaches. And they didn't think about if iO£in 3 coffee that was making the headaches. And after Mother had taken Postum for a short time her headaches began to disappear and as she kept on drinking Postum with Dad and Me, she didn't have any more sick headaches. So she got over the sick headaches.

SS: Why didn't your father want you to drink coffee? Was it thought to be bad for you?

IA: Yes.

BC: don't think that. We just never had coffee.

IA: After I had the quinsy attacks so many times I began to get rheumatism in the knees, and the rheumatic condition. And so they decided that if I liked Postum it would be better for me than coffee, and so I got along with Postum. We had an old attorney in Moscow, J. C. Elder that had the offices right next to Dad's up over head of the Creighton Building. The next big window next to that was Dad's window then J. C. Elder's window. And Mrs. Elder was gone one winter and I was having an attack of quinsy, and he came and sat with me so that Mother and Dad could get their rest; and he spent the night with me. And if I needed a drink, I had a drink, if I needed anything he was there to help me. So after I got over it and was able to go back to school, Old Mr. Elder came up every noon to the house on Third Street and picked up my lunch and brought it to me at the school. I was placed on the third floor of the old Whitworth School, and that was three sto ries up, and too much for me to make up and down to go home and Dad wouldn't allow me to do it, so he- Mr. Elder came up and brought my lunch to me. And many a day I went— at that time there was a rheu matic medicine called antiphlogistine; whether you've heard of it or not I don't know, it was otherwise, Colorado Mud It was a medical mud, and came in little tight cans, and you took it out like putty and put it on where you were having the pain. And I made those trips up and down the stairs to the third floor of the old Whitworth school with packs of mud, Colorado Mud my knees, because my knees were so store that I couldn't go up and down the stairs without. And I went til the end of the school year with Colorado Mud around my knees and Old J. C. Elder bringing my lunch up to me so I wouldn't have to make the trip up and down the stairs.

SS: Sounds awfully kind. He must have really liked your family. Liked you.

IA: He was, He did. Father did. And I never noticed any trouble with my heart then after that for quite a long time after it got over with. And then it was only until about 19- was it '60?

BC: Before that.

IA: It was about 1960 that I had the trouble with my heart" again. And that was the first.

BC: Daddy knew that you had trouble with your heaf.

IA: Huh?

BC: Daddy knew it when you were much younger, because I can remember, he'd pick up your hands and look and your fingernails would be purple and your lips would be purple, and he'd go and get you a couple of pills.

IA: He was always watching, but never said anything. He neyer told me.

SS: When you were telling me some of the things that you did when you were kids in Moscow- one thing you mentioned to me I think was going down the hill; sledding down the hills. Did you kids used to do that?

BC: Oh, yes. We useel Sixth Street.

SS: Sixth Street.

BC: Uh-huh.

SS: What would you do there?

IA: Sixth Street, it wasn't paved. There,no buildings there. And nothing but the Courthouse came in there ]ater. But we used to go down Sixth Street on bobsleds. Andclear down, you'd go clear across the Main Street- you stopped when you got to Main Street for fear you'd run in to some horse and tmqqy going down the street. There used to be an old butcher, by the name of Wineman, Harry Wineman, and some of his people are living around the country now. I don't know just where they are, but he was a butcher and had a butchershop about where the True Value or Fonk's Store is, and he had the butchershop there. And these after school youngsters and early evening youngsters would get their coasting parties arranged and we'd coast down the hill, and then wen run across the Main Stret to the butchershop and old Mr. Wineman was always watching for us. He knew we'd be there, and he always had a weinie for each one of us and a dill pickle. And you got a weinie and a dill pickle for a nickle. He'd watch for the youngsters when they came home from school; always had that pot of hot weinies and a dill pickle for them. And we always stopped into And we used to, when we lived on Third Street, we used to hitch our sleds on the back of the wood wagont. They always hauled wood in and they'd come in to "clown down on Hays and then down Third and stop along the road trying to sell their wood or delivering wood. And we used to hitch o ur sleds to the back of the wood wagons. And get on the sled and drive out, way out past where that schoolhouse is now, as you go out on Mountain View Road, and we'd go out past the Mountain View Road and along that low road that goes from there out to the mountains; we called itBeech Or chards and Idler's Rest, if you know where those are. Well, we'd go out that way as long as we wanted to ride and then we'd get off, we'd ask the man to stop and let us off, and we'd untie there and watch for the team coming in to Moscow. And we'd hitch hike on the team coming in and come back home again!

SS: Would you ride on your sled or on the wagon?

IA: Oh, on the sled! On the sled, of course. Took lots of tumbles, too! Because the snow was deep and the roads were not too wide for the sled.

SS: Sounds a bit risky to me.

IA: It was, I guess, but nojone ever got hurt.

BC: I think lone told you the last time you were about the band concerts they used to have. And she couldn't think of the band leaders name.

SS: She didn't mention the band concerts.

BC: What about the band concerts? That was the big entertainment. The band concerts?

IA: Oh, the band concerts?

BC: Uh-huh. Everyone went.

IA: That was in the early, early days of Moscow. Probably someone at the Chamber of Commerce could take you back far enough to get onto to where I remembered them. But the band concerts always played- there was old Mr. Carey- I think it's spelled the same as Bob Carey out hereand he had the Moscow Band, and they had a big band wagon and they pulled this bifc-band wagon for celebrations up onto Main Street and the band would get into the wagon and give us a concert. And it was usually Saturday evening, when everybody was supposed to be downtown. And, oh, there was big crowds would gather around Carey and his band Wagon.

BC: There was a bandstand that I remember, lone. It was a bandstand built downtown someplace.

IA: A what?

BC: A bandstand.

IA: The bandstand, uh-huh.

BC: I remember that.

IA: This was an unusual wagon that they'd fitted up so that the band could be comfortable on the wagon, and we had the big band concerts. They played at everything, all around. Used to have big, oh, pioneer pic nics. The old C. J. Munson place out northeast of town- I don't know what the place would be called now- out past that Evergreen Schooland I don't know whether the school isup there or not. But Mr. Mun son had a large place and it was timber on the back end of the place, and he used to have the pioneer picnics, always had " pioneer picnics out there at the Munson place. And the bandwagon was always there to play at the pioneer picnics.

SS: Do you- what was I thinking of?

IA: You sure don't have any more questions.

SS: Have I been asking you questions?

IA: No, you haven't.

SS: I was thinking about living at the mansion. I was thinking about the calling that women used to do. Do you remember them calling- people calling and presenting their cards?

IA: Calling?

SS: Yes.

BC: That little card table over there.

IA: Do you see that little brass stand over there?

SS: Yes. calling

BC: That's called a card table.

IA: People always used to call. And they had certain days on this side of town for calling and on the other side of town for calling. And they would alternate back and forth. And every woman that went calling, that was somebody, had a calling card and a calling card case, and when they left they always dropped their card on a little table by the hall door.

BC: They also listed the day that they would be at home for callers, so they were dressed up.

IA: On the bottom of their calling cards they would say, Tuesdays or Wed nesdays or something like this, so that you knew what day you could go call and be acceptable at any of the places. And that little brass stand that's standing there was given to J. H. Little, who was in the engineering department of the University, and he and his wife came West just after they were married and at their wedding they were gi ven this little calling card stand. And Mrs. Little was an in timate friend of Margaret Sweet's, and Margaret Sweet was the- I think she was a libranan, she taught in the Lewiston Normal at that time, and when Margaret died, she left the calling card- Mrs. Little gave the calling card -_r: to Margaret Sweet when she was through with it, and they moved away or he died and she moved away, and Mar garet Sweet had it for years and when she died it came to Bellt Belie Sweet lived in Wky apartments, what do they call it now? Hall. At any rate, it was the-

BC: Right across from the -

IA: Manor

BC: Moscow Manor.

IA: Moscow Manor. At any rate, it came to Belle Sweet and when Belle Sweet had had it for a number of years and her health was failing her and she had to leave the University, and she decided to go over to Portland, 4ave-f and Bellthad adopted a young girl from out in the country what was it? Grangeville? No. At any rate, they adopted this young girl and brought her up and she was living- she and her family had moved over to Portland- and so Belle decided to go over to Portland to be near Jean and her family, and so she gave up her apartment down here. And I was down one day when she was putting out things to one side and I said, "What are you doing with those And she said, "I'm giving them to the Baptist Church rummage sale." And I said, "Not that little brass stand?" And she said, "Yes, the little brass stand." And I said, "Well, that was Mrs. Little's." And she said, "Yes." And I said, "Would you give it to me?" She says, "I'd love to. If you would like tx, take it." So I brought it home and I polished i t up and put it in the corner, and there it stands. It's been there ever since.

SS: Did your mother used to go calling on other people?

IA: Oh, yes.

SS: So it was something that was frequent. Did she expect the callers at her house every week?

IA: Oh, yes. On the day that the card said, she would have to be dres sed and ready for callers if they came.

BC: That was part of the social life.

IA: Always some of them coming in to call. They liked the looks of the old place outside.

SS: The mansion?

IA: Curiosity brought a good many of them in. But there was always some one calling.

BC: Did I ever tell you about the time in the big house

SS: What happened?

BC: A load of Indians- and they thought this was the county jail because of the shutters. So they came to the door with a man that they had tied up jail. (Chuckles)

IA: Did I ever tell you about the time that they- the Indians came to Dad's office?

BC: Yes, you did that.

SS: I don't think so.

IA: Didn't I tell you about that?

SS: No. No.

IA: I have an awful hard time trying to remember what I told you.

SS: That's okay. What's the story?

IA: My father had- I told you, he had this office up over head at Creigh ton' s store, and he sent East and had an electric company- he wanted to give electric treatments-

BC: Where you see your bones and all.

IA: Rheumatism and arthritis and so forth.and so this company made him an enormous big by It was longer than that fireplace, longer than that, and high, it would reach as high as the picture above it. It was an enormous thing snd had these great, big, glass wheels, and the wheels as turned would generate the electricity, and then it was connected to a chair and seated on a platform with the chair insulated und erneath the standard, so that the electricity didn't leave the chair. And he would put a patient on this chair and then take the different instruments for treating them, on the neck ~ on the head wherever they needed, that he would use the different Well, an Indian came up one day and wanted a treatment. They used to have the court- well, the In dians held court up overhead in the old post office, and when t he In dians were at court; this old fellow was having rheumatism very badly so he came up to Dad's office and asked him if he would give him a treatment for rheumatism. So Dad gave him the treatment. And the old fellow wanted to know if it would be alright if he brought a friend back. And Father said, "Why, yes," it would be alright. So the old Indian went back and after court was out came to the office with four or five Indians. And Dad had shown him how if you took hands and took one of the electrodes in your hand that it would go through the bodies of all that they came in contact with. So the Indians all took hands and Dad gave him the electrode and then turned on the wheel, and the Indians couldn't let go of each other! And they began to jerk and hol ler and jerk and holler and danced up and down. You could have heard them down on Main Street! And Dad said he wondered what kind of a war whoop they thought he was carrying up there, but the Indians were just fascinated by that electric battery. And every time they'd come to court, there'd be a bunch of them come up to the office for a treat ment! They'd want to get someone who hadn't been there before and had ahold of hand and he couldn't let go. And so they hung on to it and he treated dozens of them! Well, Dad wouldn't take any charge for it, he was geting such a kick out of it. He wouldn't take any charge for it. So the Indians then got to bringing him Indian jerky-that's the jerked venison- and elk teeth. They'd bring him elk teeth and the Indian jerky in payment for the And Dad had quite a double handful at one time of elk teeth. I gave them all away, but I think two.

SS: Did only one person hold it at once, or did they hold hands?

IA: They'd take ahold of hands.

SS: And one person would hold one end and the last person would hold the other end and go through everybody?

IA: Yes, and go through everybody in there, and they couldn't fat go, they had that on and they put the electrode next to the machine at the other end- the Indian on that side and the machine on this side and they coul dn't let go.

BC: lit also had a fluoroscope arrangement where you could look into see the bones in the hands or in their feet and that fascinated them.

IA: Oh itjust-

SS: He liked the Indians then?

IA: Very much.

SS: Some people didn't; I had the idea, and didn't treat them very well, either in some places.

IA: He liked them. They had the Presbytery of the Presbyterian Church - every year had a meeting of the Indians up here at the church and the Indians, at that time, used a lot that was right across from the park up here on Hays Street, tthe City Park, that was a low piece there ha© been graded for First Street, for the park, but down below on the other side was a large, large lot which was fenced in with a high board fence. And the Indians used that for a camping ground when they came up from Lewiston to Lapwai to the Presbytery. And the families would all come up with them and they'd set up their tents and they just lived there at that low place during the week of the Presbytery. And Dad used to take us girls up, and he knew the Indians that he'd met at the office and others and he used to take us up and initiate us into the ways of the Indians were living and how they cooked and how they did at the camp.

SS: Did they have tepees?

IA: Yes, they had their tepees. They always set up their tepees. They'd have their families- each Indian had his family tepee. They'd set it up and the little youngsters'd be running around there and the mothers with the babies in their arms or on their backs, and we had a big time watching them.

SS: Could you go inside the tepees?

IA: Oh, yes, we went inside and sat down on the blanket. They'd have blan kets rolled up. We'd set down on their blankets. Some of them had folding chairs. They were really an innovation at that time.

SS: Did you eat there?

IA: No, we didn't eat there. They always brought the jerky to Dad at the office and Dad'd bring it home, andthat looked real clean he would chew away on. He loved to chew away on that jerky in the evening. He sat and read his medical magazines or the paper and chew away on this jerky. This machine that I was telling you; after Dad's death we didn't know what to do with it, and so we called Charles Carsow- I don't know whether you know Charles Carsow or not.

SS: Grocery.

IA: What?

SS: Had the grocery.

IA: 0. C. Carsow, his father, had the grocery. But Charles was the young man in the family, and he's down on Jefferson Street somewhere, has a home down there.

BC: Is he still living?

SS: I think so. I'm not sure, but I think so.

IA: I think he's still living, Bernadine, although I don-'t know, it's been so long since I've seen him or heard of him.

SS: You gave it to him?

BC: No.

IA: Yes,we asked him if he knew of anyplace that we could give this machine to-

BC: Beautiful machine. Beautiful wood and

IA: We wanted to get rid of the machine; get it out of the office, because Mr. Ramstadt wanted to rent the office up overhead and we had to get rid of all that stuff. So, he told us that he was quite sure that they would be very glad to have it at the high school as a demonstration of the earlier days of the making of the electricity by friction on the wheels. And so we gave it to him. Big, enclosed glass case and then all the little instruments that belonged with it, and the stand and all. And Dad's name printed across,"This made for- especially for Dr. W. A. Adair, Moscow, Idaho". And it's still down here at the high school, and in the physics department, but I'm not sure.

SS: Do you think that it was helpful to people for rheumatism?

BC: I don't doubt it.

SS: Do you think it helped people?

BC: Be like a vibration treatment or something.

IA: He thought so, that was the reason that he got it. And they seemed to think so because they repeated time and time again, not only the Indians but the others in town.

SS: You know these visits that you were talking about; the cards. Were they considered formal visits? If someone came to visit your mother, was it usually a sort of person that she knew but not a close friend? It would usually be someone that was just an acquaintance that would come?

IA: Usually acquaintances that would come, although I presume some stran gers did, wanting to see what the place looked like inside and all, but generally it was your friendly call. At that time the people of the University and the people of Moscow intermingled a great deal.

BC: More than they do now.

IA: Now they're- what do you call it? I don't know how to say it, but-

SS: Segregated more?

IA: They are.

IA: They're segregated.

SS: Aloof, you mean?

IA: If you meet anyone socially, it's usually on this side of town or someone that has lived on that side of town, and moved onto this side of town. But Sixth Street, and Oeklft Avenue was usually the division point between the University and Moscow. The city of Moscow, as far as the social life was concerned. But they intermingled a great deal more then than they do now. Now, they're all so busy with their own entertainments and all and their business and their-

BC: Tell him about the music teacher. The early music teachers at the University.

IA: Oh, I think that's

BC: No. No. The one that you tried to teach the riddle to

IA: Well, how do I get started back on that?

BC: Oh, I could start you on that. You used to have a reading club, meet so many times a week-

SS: A reading club?

BC: Reading club.

IA: Oh, yes, we had a little reading club. There were eight or twn of us that met with Mrs. Arnett. Mrs. Arnett owned this statue of Rip Van Winkle. And after she went up into Canada and she gave it to us to bring back. She said it belonged in the States.

BC: The original.

IA: "They don't know anything about Rip Van Winkle in Canada." And she said, "It belongs back in the States where people know about him." So, Mrs. Arnett was great for young people and I had these two sisters and we used to go up to her place to read, and then she invited in two or three others until we got a group of about eight or t en people.

SS: And what did you read? What sorts of books?

IA: Dickens. We were particularly fond of Charles Dickens' works, and we read Nicholas Nickelby and Doris Little and the Tale of Two Cities and-

SS: David Copperfield?

IA: Oh, yes. We just read because we liked it, and we all enjoyed it. Well, finally there was a music director at the University, a lady, Mable Mc Kinley, and she taught for the girls, and then they brought in a young man, the baritone by the name of Stuart Fuller. And Stuart Ful ler and Mabel Mc Kinley became very good friends, and when Mrs. Arnett invited them up to read Dickens with us, they were delighted. And they came up to read Dickens. Well, after we had read Dickens and while we were passing out the refreshments, we usually had some little cookies orNcake or something that we passed out. While we were passing out those we got to talking about riddles. And each one of us would give a riddle, and then the rest would see if they could guess it. Well, Stuart Fuller was very interested in riddles, and he tried to think of one that he could remember and give to other people up at the college. And so he tried and he tried over and again, and we'd repeat it over and he'd repeat it after us. And the riddle we gave him was: What is it can go up a chimney down, and down a chimney down, but can't go up a chimney up or down a chimney up. Do you know what it is?

SS: Santa Claus?

IA: No. (Chuckles) Wrong generation. No, it's just another generation. You've never heard it before. Well, Stuart practiced and practiced and one evening he was out and some of our friends were there and Stuart got the conversation around to riddles, and he says, "I know a riddle." And they asked him what his riddle was, and he says, "It's up a chim ney, up and down a chimney up." "What is it? And that was the only thing he could get. Nobody could guess it. It's an umbrella. You can't put it up a chimney up, nor down a chimney up.

BC: That's the way they spent their evenings 1 (Cfruckles)

IA: Up a chimney up and down a chimney. Well, Stuart just got it--

BC: All mixed up.

IA: Up a chimney up and down a chimney up.

SS: Sounds pretty mixed up.

BC: That was in the days of umbrellas!

SS: Were riddles a popular pasttime?

IA: Oh, yes, everybody knew riddles.

SS: We sure don't any more.

IA: No,,nobody knows a riddle nowdays, I don't believe. But it was enter taining if you knew something that nobody else knew or could guess, or He got it!!

SS: This reading group, was it of young people who had gone to the Univer sity or just Moscow young folks? Or who was it?

IA: The reading club?

SS: Yes.

IA: My two sisters and myself and Mrs. Arnett and " Bush, that was five, and then anyone that she wanted to invite. She knew a young man by the name of Atwood. Young Atwood had been with her on the homestead one summer, just as chore boy, so that she had someone for company and as a chore boy, and she invited him, and then she had ano ther one, another boy who had been out there by the name of Estes, and we invited him, and we just kept inviting and sometimes-

BC: We'd take turns reading.

IA: we'd invite one and sometimes another.

SS: Read aloud?

IA: Uh-huh. You know, I don't know what happened to Stuart Fuller, but Mabel Mc Kinley was teaching here at the University and came down with diphtheria and died with- from the attack of diphtheria. She was a Christian Scientist and wouldn't have help from any doctors, and she died from the effects. And, before she died, she had a cousin, the name Renfrew, and they lived on that- well, between here and Joel- noyes, it is Joel. There's a road that goes straight north and goes up over a hill and straight north and a house sits on that side, well, lived there, and they were distantly related to Mabel Mc Kin ley. I think, was the reason possibly that she came West to teach at the University, and before she died, she one evening, had a small phonograph, one of these little cylinder ring phonograph The first phonographs which were made with the round cylinders, not the flat ones, but the round cylinder, and she sang a couple of songs for Renfrew. And I was teaching out at Collins and Renfrew came through at one time and stayed for a couple of daysat the hotel where I was staying, and then when he went back he fell just before starting back and broke his arm. And as he went back to his homestead, it must have been at leastit was over on Marble Creek- and he must have been at least twenty miles or more from Collins, and one his way back he had to cross a log and crossing this log he lost his balance and fell into the creek and he couldn't make his way out. Well, he had told the boys at the store that he would be back certain time and he wasn't, he didn't re turn at the time he said, so the boys took the horses and started over to Marble Creek to see what had happened to Renfrew that he didn't come back. And when they found his body in the creek- and so they put the body on the horse and brought the horse- brought the body back to Col lins. And they made a casket there for him and he's buried up here in the cemetery. Well, I was foiling around at the store, while the men were working building this casket and one of the men said, "Where's the phonograph?" And they said it's in that package of stuff that we brought over, out in the ~ iei room. So they went out and got the phonograph and brought it in and set it up on the counter at the store and started the phonograph playing while they were working on this cas ket for Renfrew. Well, the first song that they played was the song that Mabel had sung for Renfrew. And they played two or three of these round cylinders. It seemed so queer to have her singing while they were working on the casket to bring him into Moscow for the funeral. And I don't know whatever happened to the phonograph at all, but he's buried out here in the Moscow cemetery.

SS: It wasn't her singing?

IA: Yes, He had made records.

SS: Oh, he had made records?

IA: Made records.

SS: She was his girlfriend at the time, or just a close friend?

BC: Relatives I think now.

SS: Oh, relatives?

IA: They were relatives. The Renfrews and the Mc Kinleys.

SS: So it was his record player?

IA: Uh-huh.

SS: It must have seemed very strange to you?

IA: It did, it seemed very strange to me.

SS: Had you been there when he sang him the songs?

IA: No.

SS: But you knew about it?

IA: she sang the songs for him. But the moment she started I recog nized her voice from the little cylinders he had.

BC: I wonder just how they made them?

SS: Well, they still do, so it isn't that hard. But you know, when you're talking about death like that, it reminds me of that scandal around Moscow when Winnie Booth ran off with Dr. Ledbrook. Do you remember?

IA: Oh, yes, remember very much. Mrs. Ledbrook lived- let's see, not this block- not the first block, the second block- right across from the Catholic Church in that large house there. Martins lived there after wards. And the Ledbrooks lived there. And Dr. Booth was the minister at the old Sixth Street Methodist Church, and they lived in the house next to the Methodist Church, down on " Street. I think they call that a Baptist Church now, if I'm not mistaken. At any rate, that's where they lived. And Winifred and the Doctor had quite an affair, and Mrs.Ledbrookknow anything about it, of course, and I don't know that she could have done anything if she had. But, at any rate, they decided to go over to Orofino together.

BC: Elope?

IA: They eloped as far as I know-

SS: Pretty difficult to elope if you're married, isn't it? (Chuckles) He was.

IA: Winifred wasn't. Winifred wasn't married. But they went to Orofino and went to the hotel there at Orofino and registered and while they were there, Winifred died. Now whether the doctor had given her some thing or whether she took something herself, I don't know. But shevs buried out here on the-

SS: Didn't he kill himself? I think he killed himself, is what I heard.

IA: He also killed himself, after her death, then he died. And Mrs. Led brook lived in this house across from the Catholic Church and she sta yed there for, oh, quite some time it seemed afterwards because there seemed to be quite a question here legally that she had to remain in Moscow. Then she moved from here to Spokane. She kept in touch with a number of people here.,v This lady that had the Rip Van Winkle statue and took it up to Canada lived almost across the street. The Catholic Church is here and she was in the parsonage and then wh ere the Catholic Church stands now is ms. Mc Bride's home, and they moved that over onto- I believe it's Howard Street, it's the next street over. But they were good friends. And Mrs. Ledbrook had a chest that she claimed was made out of the door of the church that the Mayflowerthe company that came over . on the Mayflower- that that was the church that the company that left the church and came over on the May flower, and that this was made from one of the doors of that church. And we ve seen it a good many times, we saw it up here andAwe saw it after she moved to Canada. I've often wondered what happened to it afterwards, whether it was ever taken care of or not. It was a very pretty little chest.

SS: I've heard that that was very upsetting in the Methodist Church circles at the time that that happened.

IA: Tt was- Just practically divided the church for a while. They had quite a time down there at the church following that. Did people think that they really were in love or did they believe that he had— see I heard that some people had said that he had hypno tised her and that he used that.

IA: Nobody knows what happened. The story of A Buffalo Coat tells quite a bit about it, by Carol Ryrie Brink, tells quite a bit about it. But even she did not know. No one knows whether he did or didn't. I never heard of the hypnotism.

You understood that there was just a love affair. And that he had killed her andkilled himself. I don't know who told me that.

SS: Well, that's the way it is in the book, too, but I think most people- But why upset the church so much? I wonder if it's just because it was the minister's daughter.

She was the minister's daughter and they didn't approve of it in the first place, and then the fact that he was the minister, he should have had better control over his daughter than that, and so forth. ££: Churches used to be very, very strict.

And they would have these revival meetings here. People go down the sawdust trail and be saved and then they give all their jewelry and stuff to the revivalist. Well, tell him about the violin.

IA: Oh this is just-

Is this the one where the girls couldn't— you told me that. Did the church that you went to have a lot to do with the social circles that you moved in, in Moscow? In the early days? Churches had a great deal to do with it. Yes. I don't think you understand his question. Did the church that you went to, have anything to do with your social standing? Or social circle more. The people that you would spend your time with?

IA: No.

SS: You don't think so?

IA: No. They were too severe.

BC: We always went to church down there, and all of our friends, as far as I know were members of the church or went to the church.

SS: To the same church you went to?

IA: To the same church. Used to walk from first on Third Street, and then from this home down to the church on Sunday and then back. I had one teacher, one Sunday School teacher that I disliked very much. Belonged to the post office force and there wasn't anything I could do about it. I was just a youngster and he taught the Sunday School, and I didn't agree with him on a good many things and never failed to tell him so! And I'd go into church to a service after Sunday School, and they were their benches in here and he was an usher, like wise.

SS: And he'd snap his fingers?

"Get over." Snapped his fingers and motioned 'em to sit over. And he always sat us down in space that was too small, because he couldn't make the people go over far enough. And I was just very uncomfortable at church.

He always waited til the row was almost full before he let you sit down?

IA: Oh, yes. He snapped his fingers and-

SS: Why? Did he have something against you, too? it was other people, too. That's the way he made other people go over, but I always felt it was personal.

BC: 0h y°u did? I didn't know that before.

When he went to seat me I was always sure of his purpose. That's because you disagreed with him in Sunday School? What would you disagree with him about? Were his ideas about religion pretty—? Different parts of the religion, he'd stand up for one person in the Bible and I'd stand up for another.

You know, one time In Seattle when Iwas over there for surgery, they gave me an encephalogram, and that's where they put all these electrodes on your head and everything,; absolutely still and breathe in for five minutes with your mouth open and then close your mouth and breathe for five minutes, quite a nerve racking thing, but you have to sit nurse said to me, absolutely quiet. So when what were you thinking about?" Isaid, "Iwas saying mentally nursery rhymes." "Nursery rhyme?" She said, "I've never known a nursery rhyme." See, she brought me up on nursery rhymes. And Ispent the whole time in that office in my mind sa ying nursery rhymes. And she was so amazed -HK+ allied/, I had a good teacher.

SS: Did your parents encourage you to express yourself when-

IA: Huh?

Did your parents encourage you to express yourself if you disagreed with someone, like this man? Were you encouraged to say what you thought?

Yes, I was supposed to say what I thought. If I didn't agree with them I'd say so. And especially on the story of Jesus and Martha when one was wiping his feet with her hair and the other was out in the kitchen cooking dinner, and Isaid, "It's no way to do."

IA: Huh?

BC: Martha was doing the menial \o, and Mary was anointing.

SS: You said you had someone living in who was doing the- helping in the house?

SS: Did you have that when you were living here, too? Someone living in? How well did that person usually fit into the family?

BC: They were treated like a part of the family, and they were called hired girls. And we always had very fine ones, and they were just like a member of the family. Weren't they?

IA: The what?

BC: The hired girls were always like a member of the family, they ate at the table with us but they served. Bertha and Jennie and

SS: They were considered a member of the family?

BC: Yes.

IA: We had a little old uncle, the one I told you about when we took Mother over to see if she liked to live in Pullman, and she'd live up on the College Hill. And Uncle Stiner had the misfortune to lose one eye, and he was quite some time in a hospital and liked the nur ses very much, he'd have stayed longer if he could have. But, at any rate, he used to come over, and when he would come Daddy would always ask Uncle Stiner to say grace. My father always said grace at the table, and Uncle Stiner had a way, he talked perfectly natural ordina rily, but when he started to say grace, his voice trembled, and he'd say, "Ooouurr Hheeaaweennllyy Ffaatthheerr," and so forth. And I Looked updone time and Uncle Stiner's glass eye didn't turn down, and this was before the days where they attached it to the muscle, and they now open and close the same as the other, but Uncle Stiner's eye didn't turn down and that glass eye stayed straight ahead. Well, be fore we went to the table I said to the hired girl, Bertha, "You know, Uncle Stiner's eye doesn't turn down, and when he says grace it will look straight at you."."Oh, no," she said. I said, "Yes, it is, that's true." So we all sat down to the table and Uncle Stiner started in with his wobbly grace and Bertha looked up and that eye was looking right straight at her; she just began to swell up, funny, funny, funny, she began to swell, hold her breath, tried to stop it and couldn't. And she pushed her chair back quietly and slid out the back door over there and down~the back porch and down into the woodshed. And all the time she was going that laugh of her's , it was just pitched way high, it was "Te he he he."

BC: Got and she couldn't stop it.

IA: And you could hear her out in the back of the woodshed, and she try to come in and she'd get part way up the back steps, turn and go back to the woodshed and laugh her head off again. Well, she finally got to the table- where she could bring the things in and put them on the ta ble for us, but she could not sit down and eat with us. She just went out and every time she'd think of Uncle Stiner looking at her that way she'd start off in peals of laughter again. (Laughter)

IA: 0n» she was funny. We just loved 'em. She was married and they had seven children of their own. After she left us over here she married a man that she saw on the street corner ance. She was going down past what is now the, what was the corner drugstore, now, I think it is, isn't it? At any rate, past there, and this man was standing on the corner watching people go by, and Bertha turned to the girl that was with her and she said, "See that man?" Said, "I'm going to marry him, and take him off the street." And she did! It took her a year or so to do it, but she did! She finally married him.

BC: They were a very compatible couple.

SS: Did she know him at the time?

IA: No, she'd never met him. But she managed to get acquainted with him someway. How, I couldn't tell you, but she saw the man and she knew that he was the man she was going to marry and she pursued him til she got him. Well, then he went in- they were on a farm out here in the country at that time- but he took the examination and went into the post office and he worked in the post office at the same time I did. And we had trips all over this country together; Bertha and Sam and my sister and I, everywhere, whenever we wanted to go.

BC: lone used to go off alone on these trips.

SS: Hiking?

IA: After my father's death they came up and they said, "Now, you are alone, and when you want to go places or do things, let us know, be cause we're not tied down, our family is all grown excepting one girland she taught up here at Teko for a while. But, they'd always go) we went to the Glacier National and we went to Yellowstone Park, we went to ncyWfticct . Every place, we ve been all over th e country, just went places. When we'd take a notion to go anywhere, why, we'd just pick up and load it into the cars- they had a car and I had a together, car, and anytime we could we'd start off Take our vacations together. But, she still laughed.

BC: Not any more.

SS: Were you relly very close to your father in your younger years?

IA: Was I close to my father?

SS: Yes. It sounds like you did a lot with him.

BC: She took the place of a—

IA: I was the only boy he had. I was the only boy he had and anything that he wanted to do, I_ would do. During the flu epidemic here-

SS: 1918.

IA: 1918 and I'd just go everywhere with him on trips.

SS: What was that like?

BC: It was dreadful. See we had a ROTC training camp here and all these They had boys got the flu. the big house up on the hill turned into a hospital.

IA: Dad went night and day. And I'd get in- when I'd leave work and come home and he'd have someplace out here in the country and he'd tell me to go to a certain place, like out here at Joel, and he said, "I'll tell you from there." And he'd go to sleep and I'd drive the horses until we'd get to Joel, and then he'd tell me which way I was to go from there. And after we got the car- and once we were driving from here they telephoned to him and asked him to come over to Viola that the people at the post office there were very ill, and they wan ted a doctor at once. Well, it happened to be quite late in the even ing before we got started and bitter cold, so we took a jug of hot water and heated it on the stove- put a jug of hot water in the car. Cars didn't have heaters those days, and set it down and then put the robe over it and that kept our knees warm and we drove to- out here to the Naylor place- do you know where that is? We drove that far and the water froze- not in the jug, but in the car- in the hose. So we stopped and thawed out the hose, and we stoped at Naylors and thawed out the hose and then we drove from there on to Viola without any trouble after we got the hese thawed out. And we got to Viola and he stopped at the post office there and they were sleeping in a room at the back of the office, the postmaster and his wife, and he treated them and then they told him of three or four others that had to be helped, and he treated those and I stayed at the post office while he drove around town and went to these different places and took care of them. The last time was about four miles from Viola on a sideroad that went in under the trestle, this side of Viola, and then on towards- I suppose it would be towards the airplane- or the fieldr but he went that far. I went with him that time because we could cut back across and then-

SS: Was this the same time, or was this later?

IA: No, this was all later.

SS: This was afterwards?

IA: Uh-huh. Well, during that flu,that you went around with him; I heard a lot of people died in Moscow and around. Yes, they did. Bernadine and my sister were nurses. We were the first civilians that had the flu. Daddy was treating all these ROTC men, and my sister and I got the flu and when we were over it then we helped the others. Is that how you got it? From nursing the others?

IA: No, we had it before. And see, they had the army here- the ROTC at that time, and they used this big house up here that we c ailed the Lewis house.

SS: M. E. Lewis?

Uh-huh. They used that as a hospital, and they used a barn that used to be the Stewart barn on- right across from the Idaho Hotel- they had that for a hospital, and the hospitals were full, and people were just going all the time.

Funny thing is, that Daddy nursed all these people, but he never had the flu. That so frequently happens. The doctor goes in and takes care of a thing that is contagious and-

SS: Doesn't get it. How did he treat them? What did he do for them?

IA: I don't know what he did for them. As to that I can't tell.

BC: They had to wear masks.

IA: Lower the fever and give them something that would check the cough. Most of them had very severe cough with the flu at that time.

BC: We all wore cheesecloth masks over our face.

IA: They had a man at the Methodist Church at that time, he had just come in. That's when they changed at the conference, he came in in the fall a new man, and Dad had a call out at Elk River and so he said that he'd ask someone to go with him. I was working and he didn't want me to lose my time, or to lose my sleep for that, so he asked the minister to go with him. And over MwxHill, which is this side of Elk River before you hit the valley on the other side, they were going up a hill and ahead of them in the road was a little cub bear. Daddy stopped the car and tried to get the minister to get out and pet the bear, and he absolutely refused he said he wasn't trying to make the acquain tance of any mother bear? and he wouldn't get out. But he went with Dad over to Elk River and they treated ten or twelve people at Elk River; people that were wanting help. And the snow was so deep that they couldn't see- Dad didn't know where to go, so he got a man at the drugstore to take him around to these different places where he had to visit them. And then on the way home, there was a little mill on the righthand side of the road as they were coming back, a little mill that set back in, and they came out and were standing in the road when Dad came back and asked Dad to come in and he went in and gave medi cine to a number of people there that time. The ministers said, "Of all things I ever saw," he said, "that certainly was one trip."

SS: All at night?

IA: All at night.

SS: Was this at '18 or was this later?

IA: It was during the epidemic.

BC: Daddy was county health officer then, too.

SS: Oh, he was?

BC: He closed the and the churches and everything, wouldn't allow congregation.

SS: It was his decision to close down the churches and schools?

IA: Yeah.

SS: He made that decision, because I know they closed 'em down all over.

BC: They closed down them all. go to Thanksgiving down to Uncle Sam Owingses, which is on the employment office, at that place at that time, and Mrs. Owings wanted us to come down for Thanksgiving dinner, and Dad was the- oh, what do you call it?-

County health officer. County health officer at that time, and he said, "You can't go down." "Oh," she said, "we'll pull all the blinds down and darken everything, if you'll just come down and have dinner with us." Well, that's what we did! Slipped in the back way. (Chuckles) And had dinner with Owings Thanksgiving dinner. And he closed thechurches and schools,' 4hr5l

SS: People weren't supposed to congregate in each other's homes? No, couldn't congregate. We didn't have near the fatalities that most homes did.

SS: Why do you think? Because everything was shut down?

BC: Uh-huh.

SS: Was that really your fathers decision?

IA: Kenworthy had just come into town as a young man. I don't know whether he was married then or whether he was married after he got to town, but he was just a young man and he started the movie on Third Street where- it's between- I'd say Obergs, but you don't know Obergs- bet ween the corner and where Felton had his office, in between there was where the movie- Kenworthy started his movie, and Dad refused to let the movie run while the epidemic was on. And Kenworthy was the maddest man you ever saw. I've never seen him to ask him if he's ever forgiven him or not, but he was an awful mad man! (Chuckles)

SS: So as county health officer your father probably had to go out to all these rural places, it was his responsibility anyway.

IA: Yes, he had to go out to them.

BC: He would have anyway.

SS: He was that kind of a doctor that he wouldn't mind to go out wherever he had to?

BC: I don't think you could have stopped him. I don't think we ever had a Christmas dinner or a Thanksgiving dinner but what somebody had an emergency, bad illness or accident and Daddy would have to leave dinner go, but he would go./vKind of man he was.

IA: Those were busy days. I was teaching up until that time. I went into the courthouse as county treasurer and tax collector and collected on the 1918 taxes.

BC: That's the reason she keeps the bank account better than I do. I trans pose numbers. Aft waking cv\n trrcr.

SS: When you collected taxes then-

IA: What?

SS: When you collected taxes then, did everyone just come in and pay them to you, or did you have to go out?

IA: No, they came to the office. And Hap Moody was just appointed as de puty sheriff.

BC: Did you know him?

SS: Oh, yes.

IA: And I had a room full of girls up there writing the taxes or writing up]them for people and all, and Hap used to come in and at the office there was no central heating, each office had it's own stove, and Hap liked to come in and stand by my stove and just over the counter this way, and watch my girls at work. And it used to make them so disgus ted to have Hap just standing there watching them work. He never said a word; never did anything, but he just watched the girls and moved one out of the way if some came to the counter to write the taxes for them. He was funny.

SS: You know you mentioned the Owings family. Is that the same Sam Owingsthe man that did the Times Democrat? That local paper?

IA: Yes.

SS: Now it always struck me as kind of unusual to have a Democratic paper for him in a town that was so strongly Republican as this one was.

IA: It was. It didn't make any difference to him. He printed the Times Democrat. And that was his business, he was a printer, and he prin ted the Times Democrat.

SS: It seems like if his politics had been Republican, he might have had an easier time.

BC: Was that the only paper in town then?

IA: Oh, no, there was the Mirror; the Star Mirror at that time. Star Mirror at that time.

SS: What kind of a fellow was he? Was he the kind of guy that would stick up for his beliefs and didn't care what you thought?

IA: Well, yes. He had his own mind, and he wrote his own editorials and everything, and he put out a paper. It was a good paper but it was a Democratic paper. There are a few Democrats scattered around over the country, and I guess he got those, and we had the little Star Mirror, and that was run, oh, I ve forgotten who it first. But Agatha Jean Sonna Hutton finally bought the Star Mirror and took it over and run it. And she stayed with Mc Connells. She had a room at Mc Connells, stayed at Mc Connells, and she also taught in the Univer sity for a while. Agatha Jean Sonna.

SS: That's before Josh Lamphere ran it.

IA: Before Lamphere. I'd forgotten about Lamphere. Lamphere had it after that.

SS: It was her newspaper?

IA: Before he took over.

SS: That's pretty good that she could do that. She could do that and didn't have any opposition to a woman running the newspaper in town.

IA: No, they could do that. She did it. She went with a man by the name of Sutton, and he also taught at the University. He was a teacher at the University. One Halloween, Agatha Jean Sonna Hutton- Sutton and Sutton- were in a small car coming up First Street and some prankers on Halloween had strung a wire there across the street to wards this side, to the trees; trees on the schoolground and trees on the other side, and strung a wire across, and Mrs.- I guess Miss Sutton at that time- and the two were in the car and that was the time when they had windshields that broke in the middle, and you could put part of it down and they were coming up the street and st ruck that wire, and I don't know how they happened to think to duck down, both of them, so that their windshield caught the wire instead of their heads. Because their heads would have been in direct line of that wire across the street, but they saved themselves. And there was a scathing article in the paper the next day on Halloween pranksters. And there should have been.

SS: Sure. Did your parents consider themselves Republicans or Democrats?

IA: I think my father was a Republican.

BC: We all took over from there.

IA: Huh?

BC: we a11 took over from there. Daddy was a Republican and we all just followed in line.

SS: Followed his footsteps. (Chuckles)

BC: We followed the conventions and speeches. We stayed up until, z\ri\c+ two o'clock the night of the elections.

SS: But that didn't stop your family from being close friends with the Owings, even though they were Democrats?

IA: Oh, no.

BC: Just like religion, it was never discussed that was your own personal business.

SS: The Owings family.

BC: The fact that he ran a Democratic paper and he was a Democrat didn't make a bit of difference. We were very close friends.

IA: We knew them and we liked them.

SS: Lee mentioned to me that you were saying to him, Lee, my friend next door here, mentioned that Mrs. Mc Connell was a real bug on cleanliness. Mrs. Mc Connell really cleaned things a lot. That she kept things very clean. Is that true?

XA: Oh, she was- I call it filthy clean? (Chuckles)

SS: Nasty clean' Yes, everything had to be thoroughly gone over in the house from one end to the other. Her silver was polished every week. This mirror was washed every day. There's spots on there now where in the washing it took the gold leaf off. You can see there in two or three places.

SS: Really!

It was washed and washed and washed. Everything was clean,

How did your mother feel about cleanliness? Was she that stringent?

IA: She liked clean things and that was my duty every Saturday and Sunday was to clean the things at the house as much as we could. I think we had the first vacuum cleaner that was ever in town. It was called a Duntley, and it was a tall- stood about that high and about this big around and very heavy- and every Saturday after I'd get through workwe often worked at school or in my work- I had to take that heavy vacuum cleaner up the stairs and bring it down a step at a time and wipe the stairs.

BC: I did the bannisters.

IA: It had to be cleaned every week. It was a thorough cleaner, it had to be cleaned. Yes, we had, of course those men upstairs, and the roomers, Professor Isaac Jackson Carswell had the northeast- or the southeast room, and Doctor Gurney in the Physics Department had the north- or the southwest room, and I had this side, and the men from the Potlatch Lumber Company, or the Mil waukee Lumber Company, as it was known then, had the other room on the other side. There was lots of travel up and down those stairways and it had to be clean.

BC: That vacuum made the worst noise. I used to just want to run out of the house.

IA: I either had to sweep it or I had to use the vacuum on it. And it was It had a round circle about this big at the top of the Duntley and as you swept you could look in there and see the dust going across the glass.

SS: Did all the roomers eat outside the home?

IA: Oh, yes.

SS: None of them ate with you?

IA: Well, we had a hired girl, but she had all she could do to take care of the other part of the house.,An3we used to take up buckets of snow and spread on our carpets. They were ingrained carpets at that time. Brussells ingrain, and we'd take up newspapers and dampen them and put them on the floor and sweep them or we'd take up a bucket of snow and sweep it off, pick up the dust. And that was before the days of vacuum cleaners.

SS: Well, Mrs. Mc Connell had been considered an extremely scrupulous cleaner then.

IA: Yes.She was extremely cleanly. And We took her out to the cabin out here one summer to visit Mother. And she enjoyed it.

SS: Was your mother well satisfied with the mansion as a place to live? Was it enough space? Finally adequate for her?

IA: Adequate. For years they used the back parlor, the one next to the fireplace, and in this corner- both folding doors here- in this cor ner they had a folding bed. It was a nice looking wooden frame bed which folded up and looked like a piece of ornamental wood in the cor ner. And that was Mother and Dad's room for a number of years after we moved over. Then Dad and Mother decided that they would take out the stairway that went up to the bathroom upstairs. It went from the kitchen up to the bathroom, or you could go up the main stairs to the bathroom where the firestairway is now, the fire escape. And so they did that and enlarged the room with the windows- you noticed the win dow that go this side and this side and up- and that wa s Mother and Dad's bedroom. Then they got a Circassian walnut bedstead and dres ser and chiffonier. And the chiffonier was large and stood very tall. Had a glass on the top of it. And that was tall enough for my father's underwear and clothing and anything he needed, and the dresser hadwas an enormous big dresser, and it was large enough for mother-

BC: Velvet lined.

IA: to hold anything Mother wanted. It was an enormous thing.

SS: So they didn't use the back parlor?

IA: Oh, yes.

SS: But not for a bedroom.

BC: After Mother and Father were ill, lone moved downstairs because there was no bedroom for her to take care of the wood and things. And then Mother and Father; weren't well. lone down into the parlor, I guess we called it. She slept there so she'd be there with Daddy and Mother.

SS: But the back parlor? Was it used as a parlor as well as their bed room?

BC: Oh, yes.

SS: Used it as both?

BC: oh, yes, that was our parlor.

SS: And they just opened the bed up at night then?

BC: Uh-huh. It was a beautiful piece of furniture.

SS: I bet, sounds really lovely. Did you use mostly the front parlor or the back parlor?

IA: The family used the back parlor, mostly

BC: Because of the I think.

IA: We used the front parlor, we opened when we had company or visitors of any kind, we used the front parlor at that time. There wa s a time when the heat was not sufficient in those two rooms to keep the rooms warm enough, and Dad had a stove put - with a gooseneck, that's all I can think of it,- had a stove put in-

SS: Where?

IA: He had a frame made to fit into the fireplace, and the stove fit into the frame, and he used that for a couple of winters. Then we started in on the Arcolas. There was a little furnace advertised; it was cal led an Areola and it had registers and you could heat the rooms with a registers and put this small furnace most anyplace in the house. And we put it in the end of the hall and run it up into the attic and put an expansion tank in the attic and attached the Areola to the ex pansion tank, and then you had to feed it from the hallway downstairs.

SS: Wood?

IA: Wood or coal. And we used that for one winter or two winters and we found it wasn't sufficient, because we had to keep someone working at this furnace most of the time. So there was an old furnace in the basement and about that time the stokers came in, and so I decided that I was tired of cleaning up after that old furnace in the hall, and I had a stoker put into the downstairs in the basement. And the men put it in- was it just the day before New Year's or the day before Christmas?

BC: A real important day, I know.

IA: They came up and changed it. Paul and De Long were the plumbers and they took the old Areola back and did the work on the furnace downstairs and attached the stoker. And then we put in a coal bin downstairs and that had the coal backed across, what was at that time a high sidewalk along this side and the wall across the steps out there and we had the coal backed in and parked there.

BC: It went down a chute, didn't it lone?

IA: Huh?

BC: Didn't the coal go down the chute into the basement?

IA: Yes, a chute into the basement, and he had the boys- we always had a boy staying with us to take care of the wood or the coal or the furnace and the horses or the cow or the chickens. We had a 11 of those things on this block. And they run it into the coal and into the stoker, and the boys would wheel it and put it in. There's an out side vent there now that shows where it went in.

SS: Did you have both a boy and a girl then; a woman cooking and a boy was doing this other work?

IA: Always students.

SS: Students?

BC: The boys always were.

IA: We had students for years and generally they were from the SAE house- I mean the Sigma Nu house. We had more boys from the Sigma Nu house. when

SS: Well, did you find that you had other people living in the house like the boarders and the help.«t

BC: We didn't have boarders.

SS: Well, I mean the roomers, the roomers, yes; did they change at al 1 the way that the family was in the house? I think nowdays when it's only just a couple and their kids, it seems like you don't have other people living in the same house.

IA: Always someone in the house.

SS: But it didn't affect the way you lived?

IA: Doctor the music department at the University. He came in I think was the first musician at the Univer sity. Then it was shortly after that that he had Stuart Fuller and Mc Kinley the voice department. But he was the musician at that time. And he had that north- southeast room, and he lived there for over ten years in that room. And Doctor Phillips- Phelps- - the chemistry department- had the other room and then came Doctor Gurney and he was in there for over ten years, in that same room, and then Wilkie after Doctor Gurney came Nelson Collins, and he had that room. And after-

BC: English department.

IA: Wilkie left then Miss Sweet took it,

BC: That's right.

IA: from the University.

SS: So did the roomers have the entire upstairs?

BC: Part of the time.

SS: After the girls weren't at home? younger

BC: lone was always at home. And I left in '24, my sister left in '18, and her younger sister left in about '20, '18.

IA: I was always there.

BC: She was always the manager.

SS: Did your parents keep the roomers for an income, or just because they had all that space?

BC: Really, my mother was a whale of a business woman, she could have been, and that was her project. She was going to rent those rooms, it would be a pittance now, but that was something Mother was very proud to be doing. Contributing. By that time Daddy was making a good living too Not like the doctors do now but—

SS: But she managed that end of the -

BC: Uh-huh. She's the one that got me interested in the stockmarket. See Mother was not well at all for years. She was tubercular during my youth, and she was always on a couch in the dining room in front o f the window so she could look out and see what was going on. And I'd come in from school and Mother'd say, "Let's buy some stock today." So she'd get out the paper and we'd buy such and such a stock on paper 100 shares or 50 shares, and then it would be time to sell it in six weeks It was a fine for division and multiplication and percentage I should be good at math, I used to be.

SS: Did you invest later, yourself?

Well, her being tubercular, was it just a condition that she had for years and years?

BC: She had it for years. But then she died of heart trouble. But Daddy took awfully good care of her. He just adored her. We all did.

SS: He didn't permit her to work in the house very much?

BC: Nothing too strenuous. You see, here's something they used to use, I've never discussed this with any of the doctors, but Daddy someplace read of a new treatment for tuberculosis. It was a large metal tank. I would say chromium now, but that probably wasn't chromium then, be cause I was just a little girl; about this big around and stood about this high, and he had it on a standard. Had a tube coming out, it al ways smelled like carbolic acid, and she was to put that mouthpiece in her mouth and breath that so many minutes a day, so many times a day. And I was cautioned never, never to go in there and put that in my mouth and breath in there. It was the starting of my germ conscious ness. I guess I'm very conscious about germs. And so one day I did. Nothing ever happened!

SS: Was it carbolic acid?

BC: The mouthpiece smelled like carbolic acid, so I suppose they kept it sterilized.

SS: Was there steam in it?

BC: No. I have no idea what it was.

IA: It had a medicinal smell, you could tell it was-

BC: medicine.

SS: When you say that he adored her- does that mean that he would do any thing that would make her feel better?

BC: I think so, or happier, yes.

SS: So in a sense she—

BC: The minute he'd step in the door, "Mama, Mama, where are you?" And Mother was very musical, and usually if she wasn't on the couch in the dining room, you could hear where she was, she was always singing or humming. She was a very happy little person. Don't you think, lone? Mother was a very happy person.

IA: Oh, yes. She was always singing.

BC: A happy person.

SS: Well, do you think that to your father that pleasing her would be what would motivate him to do what- you know, like the moves, it sounds like were really up to her, where you moved.

BC: See, I was so close to my father and so close to my mother, lone went with him on trips, but I had a great interest in medicine. I wanted to be a doctor. And I would come in after school and sp end an hour or two with Mother, and then before it got dark I'd slip down to Dad dy's office and discuss what he'd done that day and read his medical magazines, and then come home with him. They still are my main inte rests.

SS: Did you ever think of becoming a doctor?

BC: I wanted to but Father- see, I was born too early. At the time that I was wanting to make my major in education - in medicine, I took a lot of it in school- But Daddy said, "You would not be accepted. VJ°™ r« He was of the older generation when no woman would be a doctor.

SS: Well, was he opposed to it, or was it just his thinking of the troubles that you would have?

BC: He thought I didn't have the physique to do it either. I was sick a lot when I was a youngster. He thought I didn't have the health for it.

IA: Not physically strong enough.

BC: But I primarily because thendoctors were not readily accepted.

SS: I understand there were very few.

BC: And he had grown up with that idea, I think that made a difference.

SS: Well, do you think that he felt that a woman's place was in the home, as they say?

BC: No.

SS: He didn't care about that?

BC: We were free people in our own home. We were allowed to— He was strict in some ways. For instance until I was in college, after I was in college, I still was supposed to be home by ten-thirty at night whether it was a movie or something, it was just one o f these things that was supposed to happen. But he never inflicted his ideas on us on church or anything. We went because we thought it was the thing to do.

SS: Was your mother very religious?

BC: No.

SS: She didn't take to the church part?

BC: No. Mother was not very well, she never had any extra energy. They always went to church.

IA: Huh?

BC: We always all went to church. That was the extent of our religious endeavors; was going to church. I used to sing in church a lot; pro grams. Dad thought that was what I should do. I guess God gave me a very lovely voice because I And I loved it, but still my main interest was in medicine

SS: Did you study music in college?

BC: Oh, yes. Then I went to Boston and then Chicago and then San Francisco.

SS: ReallY?

BC: Uh-huh.

IA: Speaking of church reminds me of when the old Bulgin had his meetings down here-

BC: Bulgar. Wasn't the name Bulgar?

SS: Bulgin.

BC: Bulgin?

IA: Had his meetings and it was on the lot where the post office stands now, it was built down there, that was before the Methodist Church was built up here, and he held his revival services down there.

BC: The old fire and brimstone.

IA: Uncle John Gibson could swear more - well, I think more than anyone I ever knew of exceptx Dr. Hatfield, and he got interested in those meetings, and went down to the meetings. And finally decided that hr wanted to be - what do you call it? Christian?

BC: Convert.

IA: A Christian. So he took up with Bulgin in his meetings. He had a friend down at Johnson, that they were very fond of, Mr. Thompson, and Mr. Thompson went to the revival meetings at Johnson. And Mr. Thompson decided that he wanted to become a Christian, and so he went to the church and all. And one of the requisites was that if you were a Chris tian, you had to say grace every day at the table. So Mr. Thompson took that as his special and he got to saying grace. Well, Uncle John didn't say grace. He just had a silence at the table for a minute or two. So Uncle John and Aunt Lyda went down to Johnson one day and they stopped to visit Thompsons and had dinner with them. And Mr. Thompson hadvery religiously saying grace ever since he'd been to the meetings. And they sat down to the table and Mr. Thompson felt just a little em barrassed to say grace in front of Uncle John when they'd been out swearing their heads off on so many other occasions, so he decided he wouldn't say grace. He just reached over and picked up the cas serole and passed it to Uncle John, and a little boy sitting down by the side of him looked up at his father and he'd been b roken in to having grace said at the table, and he looked up at his father and he said, "Daddy, grace." And Daddy didn't pay any attention, he just went on passing things. The little fellow looked up again and he said, Daddy, grace. Daddy still didn't pay any attention. So looked up andsaid, "Grace, Damn you, say grace!" Daddy bowed his head and said grace! And I think that's a good one. (Laughter)

SS: I do too.

IA: And that was two very old friends that got together again.

0:00 - Southern Style Fishing with Uncle Sam; Raising Worms

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Segment Synopsis: Fishing with "Uncle Sam" Owings, who fished from the bridge, southern style; singing on the way home. Ease and style of fishing with father near Bovill; bait and gear. Raising worms under willows at the Mansion. First fishing in Elk River.

11:00 - Dandelion Pest

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Segment Synopsis: Raising dandelion greens in Moscow stared the dandelion pest in the area.

14:00 - First Year in Moscow

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Segment Synopsis: In father's First year in Moscow, 1893, his pay was all in produce. A man named Adair tried to outfit his family at her father's expense. After established credit with Lehman. After storms, Hagan took the willow branches from the mansion for smoking his meat.

20:00 - Moscow Living; Fear of Kansas Storms

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Segment Synopsis: Father's sister lived at Johnson, near Moscow. She and the other kids ran home with the fog in the evenings, Mother's fear of being alone in the Kansas storms caused them to come West. Mother chose Moscow over Pullman because of isolation of hills from downtown. How they acquired their living quarters in Moscow; decision to buy the mansion.

30:00 - Frugal Living in Moscow; Family Typhoid in Kansas

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Segment Synopsis: Potlatch men boarded with them. Father hung wet sheets when sister was ill. Family typhoid in Moline, Kansas. Father had $65 when he got to Moscow. A strong drayman. People didn't have enough money to leave in 1893. Chipping enamel off their iron kettle.

39:00 - McConnell's Bankruptcy

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Segment Synopsis: McConnell's bankruptcy saved the mansion and the rest of the block; eventually he lost the house.

41:00 - Health Concerns; Use of "Colorado Mud"

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Segment Synopsis: Conversion of family to postum from coffee for health reasons. J.C. Elder brought her lunch daily when she had quinsy; use of "Colorado Mud."

49:00 - Sledding on Sixth Street; Wineman the Meat Man

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Segment Synopsis: Bobsledding down Sixth to Main; Wineman the meat man sold the kids wieners and dill pickles. Hitching sleds to wood wagons, siding out of town.

53:00 - Band Wagon Concerts

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Segment Synopsis: Band concerts with the band wagon on Saturday evenings and at festive occasions.

56:00 - Calling Cards; Mother's Visitors

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Segment Synopsis: Calling cards for formal calling. History of her calling card table. Many visited mother in the mansion out of curiosity.

60:00 - Friendly Relations with Native Americans; Rheumatism Treatment

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Segment Synopsis: Father's electric machine for rheumatism treatment was very popular with Indians, who liked to hold hands and grasp the electrodes. Father was good friends with the Indians. Visiting their camping ground in Moscow during the week of the Presbytery. Father ate their beef jerky.

70:00 - Mixing with the University Community

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Segment Synopsis: Frequent mixing between university and towns people then compared to now.

72:00 - Reading Club; A Music Professor

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Segment Synopsis: Her small reading club read Dickens especially. The music professor who couldn't get a riddle right.

79:00 - Mr. Renfrew's Funeral

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Segment Synopsis: After Mr. Renfrew's death on his way back to his homestead, local men built a casket for him at Collins; while working, they played some of the records that Mabel McKinley, his relative, had made for him.

83:00 - Methodist Church; Church Determined Social Circles

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Segment Synopsis: Winnie Booth and Dr. Ledbrook: he lived next door to her. Mrs. Ledbrook and the chest she claimed had come from the Mayflower. Furor at the Methodist church over the affair. People gave jewelry to the revivals. Importance of church in determining social circles. Her dislike of one Sunday school teacher, (continued)

90:00 - Disagreeing with the Methodist Church

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Segment Synopsis: The teacher made the rows squeeze together in church. They were told to express their views when they disagreed. Bernadine learned nursery rhymes from Ione.

93:00 - The Son Father Never Had; The 1918 Flu; Trip to Elk River; Secret Thanksgiving with Owings

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Segment Synopsis: She was the son father never had. Accompanying father on country calls at night. Crisis of the 1918 flu - father was county health officer, and closed public buildings. His trip to Elk River. Adairs had Thanksgiving with Owings family in secret. Kenworthy's anger at father for forcing him to shut down movie. Father's frequent evening calls.

100:00 - Local Papers; Accident on Halloween

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Segment Synopsis: She was county tax collector. Hap Moody watched her girls work. Owings put out the Democratic paper although he was a minority. Agatha Sutton ran the Star Mirror and taught at the university; her near accident from a wire stretched across the road on Halloween. Family was Republican, but politics didn't affect friendship.

118:00 - Cleanliness in the Mansion

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Segment Synopsis: Mrs. McConnell had an obsession with cleanliness. Using the Duntley vacuum cleaner on the stairway. Boarders at Adair home.

120:00 - Life in the Mansion; Roomers at the House; Mother's Tuberculosis and Treatment

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Segment Synopsis: Inside the Mansion. Spreading snow on their carpets to keep dust down. Parents used back parlor in mansion as their sleeping room. Removal of back stairway. Bedroom furniture. Use of back and front parlors. Father put stove in fireplace. Use of arcola furnace and stoker. A boy student from Sigma Nu house lived in to take care of furnace. Roomers at the house. Mother had business sense and kept roomers as her contribution; she introduced Bernadine to stock market as a game. Mother's tuberculosis made her partially invalided. Father adored and cared for her. Inhalation treatment for mother. Mother's pleasure in music.

135:00 - Interest in Medicine; Freedom and Obedience in the Home

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Segment Synopsis: Bernadine's great interest in medicine. She wanted to be a doctor, but father opposed it because women weren't accepted. Freedom and obedience in the home. Bernadine's training in singing.

139:00 - Uncle's Conversion

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Segment Synopsis: Uncle's conversion and grace at the table.


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