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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: July 26, 1974 Interviewer: Sam Schrager;Laura Schrager

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AXEL ANDERSON: I see now where, I believe it looked like it could've been some kind of a fence post or something piled up there. I seen it was torn all down. They don't have any more ball games up that way. It was a pretty good diamond. Course every time they knocked it across the creek it was a homerun.(chuckles) Maybe a little bit's growed out a few stumps there and made a little ball diamond about—they had in Elk River. That wasn't very big. Oh, they must have graded out just about a block, you know. I guess the field was big enough. Had a little grandstand. They must have played there for ten-twelve years, I think. As long as the mill ran, I ki all them students from the University come up there and they took about adozen at amill, puu ?em to work in the mill. And in the yar there in the summer-time, so that made a pretty good team.

SS: So they'd play( the game then they'd have the fight afterwards?

AAA: Oh, yes. Afterwards, that's when they had the fight. Not the team. But all the 'jacks around. If Bovill played down at where the Blackwell mill was at—not Blackwell, but the other town there.

LS: Santa?

AAA: Ho.

SS: Fernwood?

AAA: Fernwood, where the Blackwell rail! was, you know. They had a crew there as big as Elk River mill. About the same size. And lots of loggers. You know, all kinds of camps there, you know. And them loggers and lumbermen, you know they, they're the one that had the fights afterwards, 'course, they had a lot of moonshine with them and home-brew, and they jot lit up before the game was over, then the fight started. We had a scaler there, Jack Dunnaman, he was the umpire, mostly. But they never knocked him out. Someway, he got by. Course, you know the umpire.; some like him and some don't. And he was the only one. They only had one, you know. One at the home base, that's all.

SS: Well, was it a league then, or was it just the teams get together and play?

AAA: Well, they— I guess they had some of 'em— in charge of it. The basketball team, only the school didn't have nothing, 'cause this was all outside, you know. And they were not high school, there was the mill crews and the lumberjacks, out Bovill, they had two to now or three that worked on the railrood, they were good brakemens, they were damn good. They in their twenties. They fit right in with them students that come from Moscow, just right. Same in they Potlatch, you know; they had a bunch of students, too. I think used to take, oh, a couple a dozen or more students every summer, and put to work, you know, some in the woods, and some around the mills. But they had a promise that every year they took a bunch of them students arid let 'em go to work through the vacations. There was a lot of 'em was in the forestry school, and they had to be more or less in the woods.

Biu you play Elk River and put Bovill and Troy together beat Potlathh?

Oh, yes. Bovill and Elk River, they beat them all the time. The pitching was the worst to ret somebody that (chuckles)- they had a conductor there in Potlatch , Benson, he died three-four years agohe was pitching for Potlatch there for, oh, ten years or more. Tall, lanky fellow, he done pretty good. There were no practice, you know. They come right off from work, and went playing ball, and kept on working until the next game and put on a glove and played a ball game. Jo practice. I never seen 'em practice any.

What was camp B like? Working there camp B? You were there before the war.

Oh, it was like the rest of them,I guess, it wasn't mucji different. between the camps. Camp B , let's see, during the war, U7, when I left. Oh, there — we were . pe only two miles from town, up creek, that's all. In '17, you see , we had the first, they logged out towards Neva, or thirds Bovill on the railroad, where they didn't own the grouna. They owned the timber and not the ground. They had to log that, pick that first and up Elk Creek , the creek you know, they borrowed the old, n timber and all, so theythere was no hurry with that timber, that was left to the last, just before the mill went down. The last logging up there, we cleaned it up and they bvoHfto Potlatch Hauled it to Potlatch, in f34 and '35. them logs 193l and '35 We logged two summers up there and.hauled them to Potlatch, and they cut 'em there. The mill went down in '30. And then in '32 we logged— Potlatch mill was down— we logged two camps there on the Potlatch side, they didn't log any in Clearwater. We had Camp 11 and Camp 2. And all them logs went to Lewiston to Lewiston ton. Down Palouse, and up through Moscow, and down to Lewiston. And they said those were the cheapest logs they ever had cut in Lewisyoti know ton. Labor was cheap. : everybody had to work. Forty seven cents a half an hour, labor. That wasn't very much, 'course we gyppoed a little, but—oh, they could make five-six-seven dollars—some of 'em, some of 'em didn't. It was hell to be a foreman, I tell you. when (chuckles) The management. Hold 'er down, hold 'er down. I leuh .one camp there and my brother in another one, and I think we put in better than three million feet to the camp all summer. About six million. I forget— in the fall when we got through there, I believe we had something like thirty mil lion feet of saw logs, that we put in at the two camps; with horses.

SS: Which camps were these? What was the names of these camps?

AAA: I think there were two and eleven, Camp 2 and Camp 11. I was in two. They were out— let's see, I was camped on Clove Leaf Creek, and my brother he was up on 0mic+- Meadow. That's between Park and Elk River. We took them logs, you know where I was seven miles from the Elk River mill and hauled 'em to Lewiston. Down to Bovill, Potlatch, Palouse, Pullman, Moscow, Kendrick and down to Lewiston. Only white pine, no other species. Just picked out the white pine. in there and picked out the rest of it. There was yellow pine standing there four feet on the stump and we couldn't touch *em. They wouldn't let us. White fir and red fir and tamarack. Just white pine only. That was in the Depression, 32. All the mills were down, most of them. Potlatch was down. Elk River shut down for good.

LS: When you first went into the woods, was there any blister-rust at all?

AAA: Well, I don't know, it might have been, oh, I suppose there was, but they hadn't started that. I don't know, really, when they started that. But that was started after— I think that started after the war, the First World War. I don't think— I never heard of the blisin it then ter rust before that. The government hadn't started anything 'til later years. No I never heard of it. But through the twenties, there, they had— through the twenties, and in the thirties, you know, they had a lot of blister rust camps, you know. Them kids— my kids worked in it. And during the CC camps, you know, they were blister kids. Yeah, that Have you ever seen it? Have you ever seen that rust? On the trees?

SS: Terrible now.

AAA: Is it?

SS: Oh, yeah.

AAA: Now, they don't seem to pay no 'tention to it, do they?

SS: They've almost given up on it.

AAA: It looked like it.

SS: They're trying to grow a specie that'll be resistant to it, in these little plantings. And they're trying to plant them out and see if they'll

AAA: Then, the white pine then will disappear. Won't it? If they don't take care of it. If they don't even try to.

SS: I think in the East, what happened was, they got down so there wasn't many white pines left, and then the rust died out, and now the white pines are coming back. And maybe that'll happen here, too.

AAA: Could be the same thing in Idaho. Maybe. I never know there was so much of that being on Marble Creek, in the old slashing there, and the new growth come up, you know, and they were just- they were just covered, thick, them limbs, with that rust. That's the first time I ever really paid any 'tention to it.

LS: When you were logging there in the thirties and just taking out white pine, did a lot of that pine have blister rust?

AAA: Didn't see any, huh-huh, no, that wasn't affected a bit. No, there was— up around Elk River they had camps there, they had one camp there usually every summer. They had little small strips that they took care of there. It didn't bother so much. The first place I seen it really tough, was in there on Marble. In that young growth you know, come up after the '22 fire. And the young pine that was up in there, that killed 'em off pretty much.

SS: When you were at Camp B before the war, about '15 there '16, '17, was the logging methods the same? Did they use the same methods as you did when they first— when you first came to Potlatch? Or had they changed?

AAA: No, they— well, the only change they had— the only change theiPotlatch had in 1907, I think in the fall, they sold pretty near all the horses, and turned into steam donkeys. Then they worked them for - 'til after the war, I think, or somewhere in that— then they come back to horses again. And we used horses and donkeys together. They had some camps, you know, and usually three of them steam donkeys and the horse camp would be, probably, from fifteen to twenty teams, in each one. Up at Elk River there- well, wse: had one horse camp, and two donkey camps for a while. Then we start to mix 'em up. Had both, horses and steam in each camp. That worked pretty good. You'd set up a donkey, you know , for a long haul, a mile haul, you know, and use horses and skid to it, and they haul 'em into the track and load 'em. That worked pretty good.

LS: When you just had donkeys, did you have to put in a lot more line? I mean, did you have to put in more line? In order to cover the whole area.

AAA: Each donkey was separate, see. And each one had a if there was a short line, they took a circle about half a mile, and if they had one of them high lines, what we call with supports on, you can cross two-three ravines, you know, or hills, mile with line, you couldn't do that, except you'd have to have a gradual slope. You couldn't go over a hill with a ground line. But the high line, you see, when they come up the hill, you know, they pick the whole load up, and broke over the hill, you know, well, then we had to moreor less just keep the donkey running, check it with the brakes, so it didn't run away on you, 'til you got to the next hill, you know, then you had to use more steam again, then you had to just about lift the load up off'n the ground and go on over the hill with it, With the ground line, you coulnd't do that. We had a spool laying on top of the hill for the cable to go on, otherwise, you know, the cable pretty hard. Well sit on the ground to save the cable. When the load come over there, there was a hanger there, and they lift it up, they go over all right. See, when you come to that shoe up there on the hill, it was uphill, when you dropped over, then it was downhill again. Brought the slack over behind you and there'll be a swale 'til you get towards the next pole, then you go up hill and drop down. That load, you know, sometime be a half a carload hooked on, twelve-fifteen logs, or more. They're pretty heavy tons of it. If they was any slack in that tight line, you know be tween the engines it bear down. Yeah, that was the days of real sport. And when you get out of town there away from the noise of the mill, you know, you could hear them donkeys and them three locomotives in the side hills, you know, back in all directions. Potlatch and Winton and Blackwellj they were the big loggers on the St. Maries or Elk River line. One time there I counted twenty-one free locomotives going from Elk River to St. Maries. Pul ling logs into the mill line for the Milwaukee to take out. Pretty see near every log rails, you know. Let'a at Elk liver we had three of them, Bovill, they had six, I think. Then they got down to Rutledge, they had four or five, and then you got down to Fernwood and there was Blackwell, they had a bunch of them, six or seven. And they had one. about the time they all passed, they come by you know, they always1 down there and set out logs and pick up empties and go back in the woods again before evening.

SS: About when was this, that there was all this operation going on? at once.

AAA: After they got the rails in there in 1910, from '10 on, that's when everybody started to log. Well, they drove the St. Maries River a little, clean from Clarkia down. Dumped 'em in the river, or in the creek there up beyond the Clarkia meadows, and they had dams here and there, and up towards Emida they had dams. And onSanta Creek, you know that ran into St. Maries River, and they logged in the winter, they logged with horses and when the spring thaw comes, they had water, they used the water in the day time, you know, closed the dam at night and hold it for next morning. And they drove millions of them there, but after the railroad come in, you know, then the drives, that all quit. Was no more of that. The first few years, you know, they drove that quite a bit until they got that was the idea with the Rutledge, you know, they had the. drive into St. Joe River and then get 'em .to Coeur d'Alene and and tow 'em into Coeur d'Alene. But after they had that fire, you know, then they had to so they built the incline, that ended the drive— no more so they built the hill over,down all them creek down Norton and Russell and they bring the flat cars in there and load 'em. That ended the log drives on the Marble Creek. They put in the chute there firstthere was another chute by the flume. The' y had flumes in there and that burnt up, that all burnt up durigg the '22 .So everything they done in the beginning that all went In that fire, and after that then they had to put the incline in to get the rails in there.

SS: Why didn't more creeks than Marble Creek have flumes on them? Was Marble bigger than the others.

AAA: Well, that's the main one, you see that's — all the smaller creek they had chutes, you know, and trailed 'em down to the river, and there)[aams here and there. So they just used that all summer down into Marble flashfloods, you know, let down. But after that Marble is the main one, and all the other creeks don't run in, just feeders, smaller ones. Yes, I think they had more flumes there. The Diamond Match, no, Winton, I guess built that mill at St. Joe. They had flumes up there the first creek or two up river. And over at Mica Creek by Calder, Between Calder and Herrick, they was a flume. That was running there In i thirties. There was flume in there. They had a little railroad up around the Mica Meadows. Little narrow small trees. I don't know what they run- oh, probably twenty tonsome twenty-twenty five ton trees, little steam engines on rails — small rails they packed in. And hauled to the flume there where thyy had the dam. I know, when I was with the CC camp there at Herrick they were fluming then. We built the road—-A built the bridge over the flume, under our road, on the lower end. Near the St. Joe River. And on Marble Creek, the Potlatch had a long flume— not Marble Creek but oh, back of there- back of there- vjciciao mine, what the heck did they call that creek.

LS: Swamp Creek?

AAA: Swamp Creek. They had a flume. Big one, that must have been miles of it. Two- three dams. Between the dam$, you know, they had — you know the water splash out, when the logs come, you know. And they had feeders, little dams, you know, and they make a little chute or flume-like, and pick up the water out of the creek and run it back in the flume again, to help out. Otherwise, you know, they— the logs sometime catch up, you know, and they be three-four together, and no water run through it, splash behind them. And the flume get dry ahead, no water. They hold all the water back, you see, splash it out, you see, so that's why they had them little feeders all along there to help out, and get the water back in the flume again. The log'd go a lot faster in the water., after it get started.

LS: I'd like to see one of those operation.

AAA: Yes, we had chutes. I never worked on the flume, but we had chutes running chutes, you know, — by golly, you know two mile long up the hill there coming down. Had to have a look-out man, you know, holler, "Look out, below." when they were coming. And, I tell you they were coming, and I mean they were coming, down there. They were dangerous, though Lot of 'em get killed down there, they get get going so fast, you know, they won't stay in the chute, they just take off. Leave the chute, it's a curve you know, they take right over. Oh, a lot of people got caught there. We had goose-necks sitting on both sides the timber. By golly, you know, that high as that tree when they the log shot through, but that slowed 'em down quite a bit. Couple hundred feet, and another pair of 'em or two set there you know. They were made out of inch and a half square steel, what they'd bore we call a goose-neck. They were in the side of it, you know and they were made just like a goose-neck, and set down there to hold 'em. And a long shank, you know, against the side to hold so they wouldn't shove back. By golly, you know, that there'd be a pile of bark there ten foot high, on the side of 'em. Down to the rails.

LS: I've heard that one of the reasons that they put goose-necks in was because the logs would get going so fast, and start a fire.

AAA: Too fast, No, well, that could happen, I guess. But they got too fast and when they get too fast, you know, why they won't stay in the chute. You had to slow— and you had to have— where the was- you had to slow 'em down so they come in there, so they work there. I had- at one chute landing there, we had, I think I had sixteen pairs of those, to slow them down so they just come running when they come down to the- one got stuck, the next one knock 'em loose. "Course, we had a crew of men down there, you know, by God, else we couldn't keep nobody, couldn't stay there. Had to go down slow. We had to slow them down somewhere. In the winter time it was rough. I had a two mile one there, a chute, and the first thing in the morning, put four horses on, and pick out the biggest log you could find. Start from the top and prod the snow out. Snowed a foot every night, you know. And just pull that clean down to the landing, then the chute was clean, they were all shoveled out. So when they were through then let 'em come. If they got going too fast you had to put in a goose-neck, and slow them down.

LS: Would that chute— would it ice up?

AAA: Oh, yes, you know the frost, you bet they get icy. And the more ice it got on It, you know, the faster the logs would go. When the sun come up, you know, that's all leave, and they slow down themselves. And in the summer-time, you know, in order to help 'em, we put in, they were always near the creek, you know, to get the water in to 'em, a little water that was just like grease, better'n grease. Lot of places where there was no water they used grease and that was dangerous. Then they could caught fire.

LS: The greagewould catch?

AAA: Catch fire, you bet. You bet.

SS: Did youhorses to bring the logs up to the chute? (outside noise)

AAA: Uh-huh. Did it with horses. Places, you know, where the chute was flat, rf we trailed with horses, shove 'em with horses. Take a big log and you could shove fifteen twenty logs ahead of you, and get em over the hill, then they runback and get another one. Back and forth. You know, there'd be a lot of flats, you know, the chute, it would be level, you know, for probably three-four hundred feet, and they won't run over 'self, and you had to help 'em. Had a team there and push 'em over. And some places they used the donkeys to hold the cable and they had a chute and pulled em with the donkeys. You take a string though, fifty logs, more or less.

SS: Would they hook onto the first log, and pull the first log?

AAA: No, it'd be about the last one. They push 'em, see. No,the first one wouldn't do any good, they only had one; you see, go back and get one, that's pretty heavy, then probably, you could go back, you know on the donkey there you had several hooks, and go back and get another fifteen-twenty logs, and go back and get another fifteen- twenty and then start. So you come in with a hundred logs, or something. More or less.

SS: Well, what kind of terrain would make you decide to use the chute in stead of just the donkey line?

AAA: Well, if you didn't have the donkey. Lot of 'em didn't have the don key, to spare. If you had a donkey there, you'd have to have water and in the summer-time there was the danger of fire. You got to burn wood y°u know* Spark , sparks set a fire any place. In the summer time they didn't want to use the donkeys much. Just used 'em in the winter.

LS: Were you at that camp, were you working at that camp on Swamp Creek?

AAA: No. No, I was up there a couple of times; no, I never worked there at all.

LS: Do you know why they decided to put that chute in?

AAA: Well, they was Yes. It was the only way they could get the logs down. There was no trucks them days. The trucks just started to come in. I think the last logs from up in that country, too, they Hauled 'em down— they had Camp Y there above Dent or above Ahsahka. So, I think the last logs in from Swamp Creek I believe they trucked 'em down there to the mouth of Elk Greek and dumped 'em in the river. No chance ofa railroad up in there , you know, too far. Had to build a road from Orofino up to Swamp Creek to get in there. In the first place that'd cost more than the logs were worth. The next creek up there, Robinson Creek and Gold Creek; Diamond Match logged that and took the logs over to Cusick. Up here in Newport, on the...After the Potlatch mill went down, they hauled more logs out of there- I think they hauled more logs out of there since the mill went down than what they cut when the mill was in there. I don't believe they cut a billion feet of lumber on that mill as long as it was running. I've heard it, too, I don't remember the exact thing, but I don't think they went up to a billion feet. And they hauled out more since the mill went out than what the mill cut when it was sittin there. So, you know, really, that mill should have stayed there and they'd been sawing there yet. But they got all the timber.

SS: Was it harder when they didn't have any horses? Was it tougher to log with just the donkeys? I would think that the horses would be real convenient to pull those logs down to the donkeys.

AAA: They were. Horses, I think the horses coming back again. I think they gonna start. The Forest Service trying to get horses in now to save timber. Save the smaller trees. And motor power is too much power— you take a team, you know, get a team, we used to get the team for two hundred dollars, four hundred dollars something like that, where the gol-darn cat, at that time cost six thousand, or a little better. And a lot of places, you could do more with a team than you could do with the darn cat after you got 'em. And look at the difference in investment on 'em ,them days. It was pretty discouraging there when they first took the horses away from us and gave us them cats. They'd be stuck there sitting in the rain, you know, and steep hills.

A cat can't go, stuck, sitting there mired. And they go get another one pull 'em out. Get 'em going again. I was thinking there the first winter, when I had them cats, you know, if I only had horses, could have run circles around them cats. But, you goton further up where they couldn't reach with the rails, you know, and they had to get something to— longer haul. The horses couldn't go. They tried the chutes and they tried the flumes. But it ain't like now when they got the cats and trucks and — and no matter where it is, you can always build a road up to them, come up there with the truck and get 'em. Now they use helicopter.. And I've set and looked at the- up aboi+ Halsey, not Halsey, but Elsie in Oregon. I saw that happen inthere— just like this one you've got here, the Rubber companies down here at the Fair? It's up every night, or every day— That was sitting there and it was going back and forth, and so I stopped the car and there finally was a patrol man come along, so I stopped him, I said, "What in the heck is that, Awhat's that doing over there?" Said, "They're logging." (chuckles) You know it stayed on the same level and it pick up the logs, you know, and go over to the landing, and go back up- He said, "Its so rocky up there," he said, "they can't build no road. There's nothin' to get up there, so they bought one of them AplmS . but now I see they're using helicopters. Now they're using them. They really can do It. They got a winch on them, you know, they can lift up — they can lift the log off of the ground and go set 'em down, bring that hook back and hook on some more. And an the rough timber, you know, if they don't want to cut a tree, you know, they leave it stand ing there. This wouldn't hurt any, 'cause they pick the log up and go over it. (chuckles)

LS: How did you log in the summer-time if you couldn't use the donkey?

AAA: Horses, horses. Horses, til the cat come. First you cut the long he double logs, you know, and later again you put winches on the cat, you know, lust take the old trees now. Top them and take four-fivesix, you know, whatever they can and go in with them to the landing and spread them out and buck 'em off at the landing where they load ing them. Now, they don't even have to have checkers, they got a clamp there on the back end, power to go get a tree and get another one and yard 'em up, five or six together, and back the cat over it and took all of them bundle and The operator on the cat does all of it. One man can do— when they fall a tree, you know, they top them off, cut the top off, and leave it to the cat skinner to get the rest of it. They don't limb 'em, they come top ahead, and by the time they get to the Im* they ain't no limbs on 'em, they're off, pull 'em off. Did you clear cut most of the time? Did you take everything? We took most everything. And we did selective logging, too, a little bit. Not too much. We done it on one place there, forty acres, I think, or eighty acres, whatever it was, I don't remember. When we got through, it looked like a park. Before we got done again, two years later, had to go back in and clear and it look like hell. Take it off. Why, I dont know. Management. Then they let the river out of there, ai the fire got into it, got away when,theyburned the brush, or something. Just killed off everything. Well, we logged measure in Sweden, they used bnasf they the trees By golly, you know, every six-seven years they could get a pretty good yield that way. Go in with horses and pick them logs out of there, you know and saved the trees growing, saved the underbrush, you know the second growth coming up. We just thinned 'em out, you might say.

That's selective logging. But every few years, you know, they got a little sell off some more. Well, when I was in France, you of course, know they had selective logging. We took what theymarked for us, and by golly, he could tell you, if you stole a tree on him. When the next time he come over and he'd go look, and he'd say, "What happened here?" "That one's missing." If he had that in his mind, or if he'd counted 'em, I don't know. He laid it out in strips, you know, and like for skid roads, etc they logged first one and then another. By God,(tape noisy) Once in a while we had to knock out a tree, you know, and blow to get the stump out of there to get a road in .. By god, he knew it. And when he come up the next timeTwe'd stole one on him.

SS: Do you think that one way's better than the other? You think the sel ective' s better than the clear cut or—?

AAA: Oh, I don't know, I couldn't tell you that. Just depends on the management, whatever they think, 'course, the little feller out in the field, you know, don't make much difference what we thought of it. Now, the main idea now is to save timber; save it. And, I don't know right now, it don't seem to make any difference what— years ago, there was the cast Now, it don't seem any different on cost 'cause, if it costs more they raise the price on it. Years ago they couldn't do that. You had to hold down. Now, it don't seem to make any difference what it costs 'em, people buy it anyway. Nobody care about prices any more. Lumber's sky-high, you know. We put that little room on there. You know what that cost us? What it cost me? That wing on there?

SS: Three thousand?

AAA: What? Eighty five hundred. Dollars, to put that on. Ain't that something? Ain't that terrible?

SS: Don't look like much.

AAA: Yes sir, that's what I paid. I gave 'em a check for eighty five hund red dollars.

SS: You know, Axel, how did you come to go into World War Ii? You told me before that you went up to Spokane to hunt up some men for operat ions? Can you tell us about that?

AAA: Well,going down there on the train I bought a paper. My name was in it for the draft. But then, still I wouldn't had to go I was not a citizen, you eu I wouldn't had to go at all. But the way the things looked, you know, they were in a strike. Nobody work ing. So, I said, "To hell with it, I'm going to enlist." I started looking a little bit. First there was the railroad i— that's the one I wanted to go in. But when I got to go dont and look, they'd moved to Portland So here come the lumberjack.

LS: Say, Axel, wasn't there a story about— you tried to hire some guys and they wouldn't — and the Wobblies wouldn't let you go on the train?

AAA: Oh, yeah.

SS: Tell us about that first, OK?

AAA: Well, that' the same time. Before I enlisted I was irti- Oh, I must have been in there three or four weeks before that. I tried. Some time— One time, I must have had about thirty of them. And then we got down into the Front StreetAor Trent- front of the Milwaukee depot and By God, they won't let us go across. Hell, there were hundreds of 'em. No use to fight about it. they won't let us get out of town.

SS: Who sent you to get the men? Who were you getting the men for?

AAA: Potlatch Lumber Company. They were the Potlatch Lumber Company then. That's before they mergered, '10, '12. The merger was in '31 and this was in '17, see. txIt was the Potlatch Lumber Company then. Now my superintendent sent me in there. See if I could get a crew, just stay there til I could get one. And I didn't come back for pretty near three years, before I come back yet, to Elk River. Oh, they followed me,that employment office man there, he told me, said, 'You watch tonight when you go home." I stayed up on St. Nicholas, I think it was up on First, He said,"You just step side the door," he said, "youTp just get inside, stay in the lobby, go and sit down and watch," and he said,"watch and there'll be two men walking, and they'll look all over for you." And, by God, they did. It was right. They had me spotted you see. They were watching me. I couldn't get no crew, hell, no.

SS: What month was this, now?

AAA: That's in July. I was sworn in the army the sixth day of August. This was in July. We had the strike in June. Well that kept on, I don't know when they stopped it. I don't know. 'Course they went out there, they agreed that to a change in the conditions in the camp. I think that would stop it, the strike. Oh, it was a good thing they needed it. After that we had nice clean camps, you bet. Clean blankets, sheets and pillow cases, (chuckles)

SS: You gave up the ghosT then, huh? Decided there was no point in trying it.

AAA: Well, no, I could have stayed there then, but— I never felt right if I hadn't gone. I said, "By God, I want to go." I never regretted, I had a good time. Plenty hard work, but then, outside of that it was all right.

SS: Was it tough for you to get in? Hard to get over there?

AAA: No, no, I didn't havetrouble. Not at all. Went up to Coeur d'Alene and talked to them and at the Forest Service. I was working in the Forest Service. Got a physical. Had to have five years of recom mendation letter; two of them to get in. And that was easy to get- I'd worked on the same place— I'd worked seven years up there almost at Elk River, so I had plenty— lots of recommendations. And done avarything that anybody could do in the woods, that anybody else ever did. I had done it. No, I had no trouble getting in. My only trouble was that I should have been a citizen, then I could have made something out of it.

LS: Didn't you have some trouble getting those letters, if I remember, 'cause you were up there and they sent the letter to the wrong place.

AAA: What was that?

LS: Didn't they send the letter of recommendation to the wrong place?

SS: No, he just had to get 'em fast. Wasn't that it? You had to get 'em (the letters) fast? They had to come quickly?

AAA: Yah, that was— oh yah, they sent 'em down to that office in St. Maries. 'Cause, you know, that was in the St. Joe Forest. And I didn't go there, I never thought of— I didn't think of that. You know, that was in the St. Joe Forest, and I didn't go there, I never thought about that. I didn't think of that, so I went over to Coeur d'Alene to the supervisor's office in Coeur d'Alene Forest and he didn't have anything, he didn't have nothin'. I couldn't figure it out, so I said, "Well, by golly, that must have been," I said,"I had wor," I said, "Ihad the letters and sent them two letters, one from Mr. Laird and one from Mr. Bloom, One come from Potlatch and the other one come from Elk River." Try to get call St. Joe Forest call Vcvj got a phone, I said, "Call the office there at St. Maries, see maybe they got it." He called, and they said, "Yes, there's two of 'em laying here. Been here for a day or two." Well, they said, "You gotta go and get 'em." And, I said, "No, I'm not gonna get 'em." "I made up my mind I'm gonna enlist tomorrow morning", and I said, "my mind is made up, so, no, I'm not going to St. Maries, I'm going into Spokane and enlist." Well, they said, "You can't enlist here." well, I said, 'I certainly can elist, "I go in the army or artillary or anything. Any damn thing," but I said, "I made up my mind I'm gonna enlist someway." So, I said; "If you want me to wait for you you call that supervisor." And tell 'em to open them letters and read them to you, read them, over the phone. If you're satisfied, OK, then I 11 stick around with you a little bit, and they don't have enough there, then it's all off. But I'm gonna enlist anyway, to morrow.' And, by God, you know, he did that and;' "Hell, yes," he said, "You bet." He said, "I got three more setting there-yeu know 'em they haven't got their's , yet," he said, "would you recommend them?" And he asked me their names, and I said, "Sure, you bet your life, I know them for more than five years. They're good men, you betcha." He said, "I'll give you their ticket for the recruiting office." So, I got them with me too, into Spokane. No, they're all right.

LS: Where did you go then after? Where did they send you after you en listed?

AAA: Washington, D. C. We went to Washington, D. C. for a month, almost a month, after I left Spokane. Done a little training there. Did squads east and west a little bit. So we could know the right foot from the left. Just about all. Byqt we were on the boat, you know, I was sworn in there the sixth of August and the ninth day of Sept ember I was on the boat, going to France, so we didn't have much What little we did have there, was 120 degrees and no shade. and ahundred and twenty. That pretty hot. That's the hottest place I've been into.Over there at Tucson there the other night The first gamewhen they started the game there at eight thirty, it was 103. They said when they come into the ball diamond it was 106. When they started the game it was still 103, at eight in the evening. That pretty hot, aint it? We had 85 and said it was warm, (chuckles)

SS: Your unit was all foresters? Forestry people?

AAA: Yeah. (end side 1)

Later, after we got across, you know, they increased it with a hundred more-two hundred and fifty to the company. But when we first went across, you know, all of the was college students, not me. (chuckles) I just went through rade school, and you know, it was kinda embarrassing a lot of times. Put me in charge of that bunch, get some work out of 'em. It was embarrassing, I tell you, sometime 11+ liked to be some place, any place, only not where I was. But, I made it all right. L3: You probably knew a lot more about the woods— Well, I did, I knew all about the woods. But, you know, you take— they were all college and all in their twenties- men. They had the book education and I had the practical experience. I knew what I was doing, and they had no idea what the hell it was all about. That's the only thing that helped me. u-KX lowevry hotyto do it, and could do it myself, and tried to teach them how to go about it, so they didn't get hurt. We never had anybody hurt there in France with that outfit, outfit I was with, we were all right.

And any darn thing they asked me to do, I could do it. I could go ahead and do it. No matter what it was. Road building or no matter what they was in anything that had anything to do with Iggging, or roads or anything, I could do it. Go ahead and do it without any help from anybody. 'Course, I couldn't get any help from them officers we had, you know, they were most of them from colleges ana forestry schools. Deans, first captain I had, you know he was a dean of the forestry office at the University of Missoula. Montana. He was tue dean of forestry there. The first captain we had. The other with D Company, he come from, oh he'd been up in Canada and come on aown. his name was Lebeaund. Dan Le Beaund. He was pretty good, pretty good man, but, you know, they knew the book, but they didn't know anything about logging, or anything. So they left me alone, too, they never bothered with me. I could go ahead.whatever I did was all right. Sometime I asked 'em, some time I didn't. Most of the time I didn't. Just go ahead. Use my own judgment. We had mules and wagons to haul logs mi and that was pretty slow. The mills- the mill crew, they were prstty damn ood, a good crew. One of the sawyers used to saw Harrison. I don't know, I can't tell you the name of the company where he worked, but, at that time there were five big sawmills up at Harrison, on the Coeur d'Alene River there, on the lake. They had rails and boats there. His name was Dill. And the other was ? I don't remember where he come from, I think he come from the South, somewhere. Sabers, you know, tiiey had circle saws, not band saws, we had circle, two circle, one on top of the other. If they needed them. The timber wasn't very big, you know, I think they were five foot saws. Five foot circle saw, that's a big one.

LS: Were there any camps at all set up? Where they sent you to?

AAA: Oh, no, no, no. There in France?

LS: Yeah.

AAA: No, no, we built that. Oh, no, we had little pup tents we slept in first. Just under canvas. Each one of us. Oh, not all of us. We had a tent, we go three-four into each one, or half a dozen, I guess. was a bunch of Canadians in there ahead of us, where we oome to, and they gave us all numbers. So we got numbers. It didn't take long to build a camp, you know. There was timber there pretty much like our white fir. Fast growiugbtuff. You know, and they built them. Wc only had half inch lumber, cut half inch, for the walls. Had two by fours for the studdings. And two weeks after they put them out, you know, it looked like a picket fence. That lumber shrunk, so damn much, yon know, made tae cracks, damn near had to go put double that in, put something over them cracks. Tar paper. And that lumber was funay, you know, you could cat a piece out of the heart of the log, and throw 'em in the water tank, out Lucre, and they sunk like a rock. When it was green, it dried out float —and you cut it out of the middle of a logand throw it out there in the water pond and down she went just like a rock. (chuckles) It was that heavy.

LS: how did yon decide where to put tiiat camp, then?

AAA: where there was water. We had to have water, you see. We had to look around, find a place where there was water. Water is the main thing, you see. We couiu always get wood, we tried Then close to where the timber was, close to where the timber was. 'cause they'd bought the timber before, you know the government, long before we left the states, they'd acquired the timber. And the places to go for each company. We were scattered all — before they were through, we had twenty, we started in with six, and before they were through, there were thirty camps. We got to be there, they started with twenty after that. We were in the tents. And they started the 20th Engineers, and they come over, then they put us in with them instead of being D Company the last yearTin '18, we were the 36th Company. 36th Company. We were company when we went across the water and we come back the 36th Company. 20th Engineers. They cut out the tenth, see. And we had two hundred and fifty men to each company. There were a lot of people. Oh, tuey needed the lumber awfully bad, you know. They needed lumber more than they needed soldiers or ammunition, either. Lumber was what they were after. 'Cau they had to build, everything had to be built. The Ger mans had blowed out everything there was, so everything had to be started from the beginning, built docks, built railroads. They built a railroad from Bordeaux clean up there to the Alsace-Lorraine, clean across France. The Americans did. Put up new depots and big yards s Yes, you bet, that was something. But it takes for barracks, to build. I was near one of their big camps there on the const when they would come home. I just went tar enough, i didn't— I was left on the dock. Take care of the wagons there for the company. So I never got to the barracks. But I looked in there, they hau a hundred and twenty five thousand people tnere, soldiers. That take a lot of room. Ana them were built pract ically over night, you Know.

SS: Do you remember what town that was? On the coast?

AAA: See, we landed it's on the English Channel.

SS: What we're more interestea in is the town where you were near in the camp. Where the camp was.

LS: Where the lumber camp was where you working.

AAA: We were in close to little where we were camped the last one. An the mill was at Piorteau, fifty kilometers from there, from the mill up to my woods camp, where I was. Mill was at Morteau on the main line, you see. And I was up fifty kilometers up on a branch line. Narrow gauge, thir+y nine— I think it was nine inch gauge, narrow gauge. And we loaded the logs on the railroad cars and send 'em DOWN at La Roche. When Armistice was signed, you know, the captain was with me, we were out looking over some timber, they blew the whis tles and bells were ringing, all the church bells were ringing that morn ing and it was the 11th day of November. He said, "What the heck is going on?" And I said, "I'll betcha the war is over." And he said, "How'll we find out?" And I said, "We've got to go back into town. They got a communique on the police station, there. Blackboard but there so, we'll find out." So, we went in, and boy, when he saw that, he said, "I gotta go." And he left me. He had the car, you see, and the driver and I was on foot, (chuckles) He said, "I got to go down to the company."A I had just as many men as he did. I was in this town, just outside of it. So, I went over and I hired a saddle horse when I got to camp, and I took that and I went out, and I met them, they were coming in— there were four horse mule teams, four horse teams come in and saw logs. Iasked them drive to one side, Head for camp." And, I said, "You'll have til tomorrow morning. ovp ;tomorrow morning, better be in camp, but tonight you take off." And I went and got the whole crew in and I told 'em the same thing. "All right, you're free til six o'clock tomorrow morning," but, I said, "When the bell rings for breakfast tomorrow morning be here, or I want to know the reason why." By God, they were all there, too. And they had one hell of a time there that night. There was two Swedes, the Larson brothers, they didn't drink any, they were from Montana, and I gave them the wheelbarrow and a couple of more, I think I had six on them three wheelbarrows.

And, I said, "Take them with you, and go downtown, see if anybody is laid out. Take 'em home. Take 'em home." They did, they got a few, they must have made five or six trips. A few of 'em laid out. And I got mixed up with the mayor of the town, but you know, he was— you know the mayor of a townnhe's quite a man. Boy, he had that stovepipe hat on and a long straight-tailed coat, you know, and vest, and a nice, white, big collar around the neck, and oh, boyI And he was pretty good, he was pretty good. We were drinking champagne, _" that night. And when I left in the morning at five o'clock he was unc|er the table. He was laying out— he was laid out. So, our captain come up a few days after that. So, I asked him if he want to meet the mayor, I said, "I'll introduce you to the mayor of the town." And, boy, how that mayor praised us. He said he never saw such a fine bunch of men in his life, to the captain. Boy, he praised us. And how we were behaving, and he was sleeping underneath the table, (chuckles) I told the captain, I said, "When I left him, he's a pretty good talker',' I said. "That don't mean much." I said, "When I left he was laying there sleeping under the table. And we were drinking champagne, i he paid for it." And the champagne's pretty good first time when he come in, you know, we could get a bottle of champagne for a dollar. We hadn't been there two days, twenty five francs then, five dollars. Five dollars a bottle. But the first night we were in there we got 'em for five francs. One dollar.

LS: Did the men at the camp do a lot of drinking, when they were there?

AAA: Oh, well, you know, they couldn't do a hell of a lot on thirty dollars a month. Oh, they done their part whenever they could. You bet. They had a good time. I think we all did. All of us. I had a good time. I didn't mind it a bit. Lot of work. And I got a hell of a lot of work out of them/(students. They worked. But I was right with 'em, I worked right along with 'em. I was no better'n they was. We were all there for the same cause. We had a spy camp there one time, that's the first "Hu we were on. Ihad a 4«wt cr cabin of my own, where I slept all alone. So, one Sunday, I was there and there come a soldier up, he was trailing— he had a rifle on his shoulder and an other rookie walking with him. This fellow was sent up there for pun ishment. He was restricted to the camp for three weeks, compliment from the captain, you know. So, I returned the favor, and I said, "OK, you can go back." And Ilooked this fellow, he was overjrrom Metalline Falls, north of Spokane there, his name was Wood. And, I aaid, "You son-of-a-gun," I said, "you think that I'M gonna sit home here because you come up here?" And, I said, "No." And he said, "What you going to do?" And, I said, "You're gonna go_with me." I said, "You and me we go out together."A And I said, "There's a cafe out there'" A little place just out of town, "We go out there and have a feed, and we get a bottle of beer, maybe a glass of wine." But, I said, "Don't you leave me. You stay right with me." I said, "That's all the punishment there Is." So we were pretty good chums after that, (chuckles) After the war he come up and worked with me , for me for a year or more. After I got back there, the first, in '19, and 1920, I think I must a had two dozen or more of them soldiers come and work with me,, on the mill.

SS: Did the officers mind the fact that the men would go out and around on the town? The captains?

AAA: No I don't think so. No. No, I wouldn't think so They did it themself. Had to. We were all in the same boat. If you stopped to think about it. They were no different. One had a drink and the other The best chum that I ever met there was a nigger. Well, when we were coming home, we were laid there on the dock there for a month and I took a hike out of town, out of the dock, got in a cafe out there. He was a first lieutenant. We had a drink, and after that he bought all the drinks. I never did see him any more. We left about, I think it was about two o'clock that night. I had to go back home, where I was and 1 think he had to go to barracks. No they were all right. One time there were— I stayed over on- I met a chum of mine. I'd been up for a commission then— for an eye examination then, and I didn't get it. Coming back and I stopped at a town and I met a fellow there, we enlisted together over here, and I hadn't seen him. He was in E Company, and I was in D, and he was in the hospital there, but he was downtown. So I went with him to the hospital there. We had a feed there that evening and he got a pass, a overnight pass. I had one more day on mine left, and he o+* an overnght pass and we forgot all about It and we stayed two nftj.hts. So he had an explanation to do when he got back to the hospital what happened. And I had to do a little something when I got home to my camp. So, just when I got there, the first sergeant come and he said, "The captain want see you." And there was a first lieutenant took my place, you know up in the spy camp, and his name was Hodgeman, and I'd been gone eight days, and see Ihad seven days, and Iwas gone eight. So, he says, "Arney, what happened?" He said, "You're late." Well, I told him, I said, "Nothing happened, really," I said,"you know, I french missed the train." I said, "My is no good, I can't talk very much." Yes, yes . "So, I got on the wrong train," and I said, "I had quite a time to get back again." Yes, yes. I said, "I'm here, and sober, I'm all right."A" Hes, all right, all right", he said. "You better get to the captain as soon as you can-sald "He don't like it."

And that was all that was said about it. But I took, it was only a day over. He come home under guard. I know that. I know that. One time that he was out, you know, and he couldn't find the place, he was lost altogether. I don't think he could talk any french. And he couldn't find any train, and he didn't know anything, so they picked him up, you know, and brought him back home. And he come home under guard, too. Two soldiers brought him home. And I knew that, so I thought I'd work on that train business, just a little bit.(laughter) It worked. Yeah, in the army you never ask for an excuse. Never tried to excuse yourself, just tell 'em-sure, sure, thing/;, Igot pretty well liquored up one time there with the Canadians, and there was a pay master come around, and I got home. In the morning, you know, the first thing in the morning,you had to come to the captain- what's the use. OK. I had my fatigue clothes on, you know, not the uniform, I had my, just tne old overalls and the jacket on. But washed up probably and went over and he said, "Sergeant," he said, "I expected the sergeant to set a better example for the men." "Well," I said, "captain", I said, "You referring to me, Now?" Yes, yes . "Well," I said, "I tell you, captain," "I drank more champagne than any four of your soldiers put together, last yesterday", I said," I just drank every damn thing that come my way." But, I said, "I made it home, all right, under my own power." Yes, yes, oh, he said, "Go on." And every time I met him he says, "Go on, go on." And every time I saw him after that, you know, he said, Oct "Go on, you S.O.B.". No, never any excuse, make it worse than it was. I learnt that much in the array. Trying to excuse, you know, that never workea, cause they'd fiud_out anyway. So,Ahe said about drinking, you know. But I made it home. Yes, yes. But I put him to bed, drunk. That was later, though. we were out scouting, looking the country, you know. No place to go. And we were at the hotel there, you know, we e+ in the dining room, and -supper—when they fed, you know, Frencluaen never drinks water,neVer drink water. They put a bottle of wine or a pitcher of wine on the table, first thing. And then you order, and get your meal, and that pitcher never get empty until you leave. That's full til you leave, they'll fill it every time.

So I kept a fillin' his glass fill his glass, and he said, "We didn't order that wine." And, I said, "No, hell, no I said','that goes with the meal, that part of the meal." I said, "Whether you drink it, or you don't drink it", I said, "you pay for it just the same." But I guess that is the custom. So, I guess he liked it, and I kept a fillin' it. A And the waitress there, you know, just as soon as that got down a little bit she was right there and fill it up to the top again. And when he started to walk from the table, by God, his legs wouldn't carry him. So I got the helper there and we got him up to the room. After tnat, you know,Apretty good— no trouble with the captain after that. There was only him and me, that's all there was. When I done the same damn thing there in the camp, on the river three sergeantswe went over to the cafe after retreat. We were laying down in the camp, and tne man there at the cafe said he just got in a load of wine from Bordeaux, and he said, "That's good wine". So we bought a bottle a piece, and you get three glasses out of a bottle, three ordinary water glasses out of a bottle. So they opened one, we each one had that glass and drank that, and each one bought a bottle. We were fine. Went home and we all slept in the same barrack, you see, they— all the sergeants were together. And along about midnight, or so, I heard something, woke up and I looked and there was the mess sergeant, he was one of 'em, his name was Kavin, and he crawled on the floor and out through the door he went, but he was on the hands and knees, I thought that was funny that he walk, but I thought he had to get out anyway. A little bit, you know, I heard it again, and there was the other one,his name was,- he was out there from Centralia, Hubbard; he got killed. The Wobble him out there in Centralia, after he come home. And he took off, and by God, now, I had to take off I had to go tc I want to heave. And my legs were no good. I took and you know, we set out there til reveille, six o'clock when they blew reveille. We never got back in again. And we heaved everything— and I haven't cared for wine since. That done me on wine. The head was clear, we were sober judges, when we come home. But it just took my stomach and boy, all three of us acted the same way. We just had to throw up everything that was in us, and we sat three from two o clock to six—four hours, I guess, we sat out there. That was, on I think that was sweet wine. If I remember. But, when they order wine, I say "No." "I don't want no wine, none." We forgot the Watergate.

SS: Well, that's just as well.

AAA: See what they gonna do. I think they just talk too much. It seems like they just sittin' there atalkin' and doing nothing. Chewing the same thing over and over.

AAA: Or we find a creek that was deep enough to jump in.

LS: Where could you take a bath in June?

AAA: Barber shop. The barbers havebath tubs. No showers. The kids used to say, "What did you do for a bath?" Well, we didn't, didn't get any. "Oh, Iwouldn't a stayed there." I said, "You'd stayed, you bet you'd stayed. You had to eat." And, I said, "If you didn't stay any place you didn't eat, either. The way it was with me anyway. My folks was seven thousand miles behind me. So I couldn'g go home. I wasn't like you kids, you could go home to your dad and sit at the table and eat." Isaid,I had to eat, and Istayed." Sleep in astraw stack, out threshing. The creeks wasn't deep enough so you could take a swim in. But that's what Wobblies did, yo In 1918, that was a good thing. got But that's what Wohbll did, you know, they showers in the camp.

LS: Were those hot and cold showers? Or was it just cold showers?

AAA: Oh, no, oh, no. They had hot water. Oh, they had a little boiler. Oh, no, it was hot and cold, so you could regulate it. And an extra car, put it up in the washroom, tubs, you know, so they go in there and wash their own clothes, you know, and hot and cold water. Before that time, you know, you had to go to the creek. I tried it one time and tried to wash it, and when Iwas through my thumbs went through all of it, it was nothing but holes, it was like a sieve. Nothing left. And it wasn't clean either. Didn't have no wash board or anything, you know. There were no washing machine, those days. That was at Helmer, so I went down and found a washer woman, one Sunday and she did my washing for me.

You ought to stop there and talk to Clay Gustin,A that is a good old tolotet » could tell you lots about Latah County. And about the Potlatch. I was around him from '26, I guess to, oh, in the 40's. I think, after that Ibelieve he worked on the highway or something, didn't he, or for the county? Didn't he work on the road out to Park? I think.

SS: I know he goes out, even now in the spring, and summer.

AAA: Oh, does he?

SS: You mean Carl Plank?

AAA: Carl Lancaster, too?

SS: When you came back, after the war was over, was in the camps besides the conditions?

AAA: Yeah. Eight hour day. Hourly day, then. It wasn't daylight to dark any more, or ten hours, it was eight.

LS: Was that the Wobbles doings, too?

AAA: Yes. During that big strike they got the eight hour day and then they got clean sheets and blankets for the beds.

SS: Did it make your crews happier, to have this stuff?

AAA: Oh, yes, Oh, you bet. Sure it did, but a lot of them took— it was in the moonshine-homebrew days, you know; they didn't show their apprecia tion too much, that's for sure. Get with their muddy cork (caulk) shoes get up and crawl into bed with shoes and clothes and all, in the clean sheets. That don't show too much appreciation, but that's something you had to expect. You had to expect that. It wasn't all roses.

SS: How was the moonshine out there, in those days?

AAA: Oh, they paid ten dollars a gallon. They brought it to the camp, and some of it was strong and some of it was diluted, I guess.A They watch for the foreman to go and leave Saturday evening and they'd come in from Deary, somebody from Deary, probably. And Sunday when I come back to the camp, sittin' 'round the stump there singing to beat hell, (chuckles) On a jug of moonshine. But there was a cure for that, too. One morning- one Monday morning I took seven teamsters down the road, and after that you could see a jug of moonshine in every manger in the barn. There was twenty teams, nobody drunk, everybody on the job Mon day morning. I told 'em, if they had to have that,"down you go -that's all there is to it, no monkey business." The only thing you could do to scare 'em was to send 'em out. Send 'em down the road.

LS: You fired them 'cause they were drunk Monday morning?

AAA: Yeah, they couldn't go to work. They wasn't able to go to work. So that was all of it. We had an old foreman there for haul)or tne next one time, camp to me there, They called him 'Wood 'em up George' He had a saloon there in Spokane, later. He said, "Raise your wings, and flee for the valley" at the office, "Raise your wings, and flee for the valley." He was a witty old bastard, I guess. He'd come out and say, "Say, you got a partner?" "ya, sure, sure." "Take 'em ]and 'head for the office." wants to see you". Oh that Old Wood 'em up, he was quite acharacter, I think.

I think Iheard he got his name because he wanted to always get that last log on top of the car. Uh-huh. We had Pflton, U.S. Ptlton, the Old Han Plton, Homer's Dad, he run Camp 8, there a long time, when I first got to know him. But later, you know, he come up with us there at Elk River, and Igive him agyppo job on the donkey. U.S.- Ithink, he blew the whistle, he was pretty old then. And Todd or Adrian, he run the donkey, run the machine. Homer was the hook tender and Lutus, I think he was hoisting. Had a little steam gilly out there and picked the logs up and put 'em on the car. And there was one more, Iforget his name. Ican't think of him. Well, any way, you know, they- Adrian was married, and I put up shacks for 'em so they all-we called it Pfltonville. They had another shack to eat in. The cookhouse with all the supply and right there near the creek so they dipped their water out of the creek- nice stream of water. Nice cool water. But anyway, they start at night you know, they were logging down the creek and so forth. And the old man he told 'em, "If you do half as much logging when you're on the job as you're doing in the camp", he said, "we would make lots of money." He says, "You're doing all the logging in the camp", and he said, "that f you see don tbring in any saw logs." They was all his boys,AI thought that was a pretty good He said, "If you do more of that logging in the dayttoe,", he said, "and+jTto bed when you get home, we make lots of money." They made so much a thousand, see. For each thousand feet on We the car. . called that Pltonville. It was just a spot where the family had their operation. Yeah. Close to where the donkey sat. She was doing the cooking for the family, see. Adrian's wife, she done the cooking, for all of 'em. There were five or six. The rest of the crew stayed in the camp. There were twenty one men to that crew.

SS: They put in a lot of timber there, didn't they? Lot of wood?

AAA: Oh, you bet, you betcha. Some days they had good luck, and some days they didn't, nad a breakdown or something, you know. Lot of time, you ten or know they start on a new road, you know, they pick up six to twelve carloads. Then when they got farther out, longer out toward the mile haul, you know,4kCtfu'uh!4~get so many. That for sure, take too long to make the trips,when they were short time to the donkey they'd pick up a lot of 'em.

SS: During the prohibition day, then there were no saloons open? Right? So guys would have to drink

AAA: Yes, yes, that's right, there were no saloons. I had a family; I had a car, and I drove around if I had a Sunday off, or something,-that I didn't have to go some place or have to do work. I took the family and we drove out, you know. One Sunday we went down, I think we went down around Harvard, yeah, down to Deary and Harvard and we come back back up towards St. Maries River, went down to Potlatch, and come up to Harvard and come at Emida Fernwood, and I stopped in Clarkia another Sunday afternoon, and it was pretty warm so, they had an ice cream joint there, so I went in, and I asked the kids what they wanted and the Atfd .it out to them. I knew there was a bootleg joint. I didn't take the kids in, I brought it out to them, and they sat in the car, and now, I said, "The family's took care, now I need something." He said, "What do you want?" "Whiskey or beer?" noisy.... Ana he didn't know me from Adam, I said, "I'll take one of each. I'll take a drink of whiskey and a beer for a chaser." "OK". And, one tim there in Elk River, you know, we'd been out with the snowplow, winter time, it was cold, oh, that must have been about one o'clock, xthat must have been in '14, or ia '13, somewhere in there, Well, they had this feller, they called him Hamburger Smith, he was an old cook, he built a little hotel, he musta had a few rooms up there, I never was in there, and he had a bakery and a restaurant underneath. And I knew he was sel ling moonshine and drinks, and I come in cold, I'd been on that open snowplow in the night, my knees were shaking. So I got itkhrough the door and here was the Goddarned deputy sat on top of the counter, I stood there with my mouth open like an old fool you know, kid » So the deputy there said, "What do you want?" "Well," I said,"you know what I'm after, I'm cold." "Ok." He stretched over this way underneath, and he said, "Here it is," yourself." But he didn't take no money, he didn't take no money. I took drinks out of it, but I never will forget It. But, you know, that deputy sheriff set that on the counter I thought I was in the wrong place. But, I told him I was cold, and I said, "You know what I need." He just leaned over the shelf and reached underneathand come up with that quart of whiskey.

SS: Did you drink with your men, at all?

AAA: In town, yeah. In town. Oh, sure, why not? You know, I thought I was just as good as they were, so why shouldn't I drink with 'em? And I figured they were just as good as me, and when we were in town we were all alike, we're not on the job. That's why, when you were talking about the Jackets brothers down there, Mike and Joe. If I come in there, I know everybody in there and, by God, I couldn't hardly ever get out of there. So the last few years there, I didn't go near it. Too many. I could just down there at the counter there and, by God, there sitting all round me. And I couldn't a counted 'em. I saw him two years ago, Joe, and he was telling me that the saloon business was no good. He said, its no good anymore. Said make no money, make no money. And I said, "You got a lot of money, don't need it." "Yeah," but he said,"can't sell." And, I says, "Give it to the bartender, give it to 'em. Turn it over to 'em. They got no money. He said, "Nobody got any money, they can't pay." And, I said, "Turn it over to 'em, and let 'em pay you so much a month. Let 'em pay you whatever he can." I said, "You don't need the money, can't take none of it with ya when you die." So, by God, three weeks, later, he did turn It over to the bartender. I haven't seen him since. Don't know where he is. Let's see, we were over at some funeral But, I heard he got married. up on the north side there, that's the last time I seen him.

SS: Liu you know Pat Malone, Axel?

AAA: Oh, you betcha. Bat your life. Iknow Pat. vuite alad. He was deputy sheriff there in Uovill forjjl guess 'til he died. He must have been tnere for twenty years or more. He was telling me he used to be apolice Duluth.

you Know, there they, Irishmen, near all of them. You could see their head above all the people walking on the sidewalk when you looked up the street. You see them black helmets. And Pat was one of them. Pat Haloue.

LS: id he ever tell you how he came to come out here?

No, no. No, I don't know, why he did. I guess he was like the rest of us. I aon't think— see he was— he didn't follow the lumberjack or anything like that. He was a law officer. I imagine he just come out. And stayed.

SS: Was Pat as big a drinker as they say?

Icouldn't tell you that. Idon't know. Inever see him take a drink. No, I don't know that. He might have been. I imagine that he would take a drink. I know there were two Swedes come in there one time— with tne sheriff, you know he always you know, when they went and looked up a still. then in Moscow. But, anyway, the two Swedes Charley Young and Lundstrom, or something, the other one. They had a gallon of moonshine, you know, wherever they got it, and they were staying there at the Spokane hotel overnight. 'Course, Iguess they were talkin' loud. Pat had aroom thereat the same place, so he opened the door and come in, and he says, "Now, Igot ya," he says, "I got ya, with the evidence." Arid they says, "Yes, Pat, you have." "Sure, we'll give it to you." they said, "We'll give it to you, you got us. So they they laid 'em on the bunk, on the bed, ana they pulled the cork out and they- Pat always wore Malone pants and a mackinaw you know, heavy wool pants ana he had wool clothes on. And they emptied every drop of it on him and his clothes. They said, "Ok, Pat, now you got all the evidence, you got it, we haven't got nothin". Ana he stunk, he stunk like abrewery, (chuckles)

hey Yean, they held him tuere andemptied all that was in the jug, and poured that on his clothes and in his clothes, and that wool and all soppea it up. But, usually he didn't bother anybody. Not too much. Iguess if they give him adrink, you know, he probably wouldn't said a word. But they took and held him and give him all of it. And that was quite astory, he couldn't very well pinch 'em. Coutdn-h tor evidence and he couldn't tell 'em that he carried the evidence. And that they held him and he had all of it. (chuckles)

Did most of the lumberjacks come down from Spokane? Did most of them come in from Spokane?

Oh, I think so. or less, whenever- if they have anything left over to come in with. Enough for car fare. Were you working under Andrew Bloom?

AAA: Yes, uh-huh. What was he like he was like to work with?

want shis name now owns it? lie bought out the Red Collar. They had tug boats. They over from St. Marias Sown to Coeur d'Alleennee. his name? Imet him . times. He was an Irishman. And I think Mr m think Mr. Bloom and Deary must a come, Ithink they come out here together from togetfter from the East. They worked for the Weyerhaeuser in Minnesota.

But they come out here cruising, and Bill Helmer. They all come out the same time. 1900. out (noisy) Yeah, he was an old cruiser. He used to cruise in the woods. Cruised the timber. (tape shut off)

0:00 - Jacks fought after baseball games between logging towns

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Segment Synopsis: Jacks fought after baseball games between logging towns.

6:00 - Logging during the Depression; growth of blister rust

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Segment Synopsis: Logging in the depression - white pine only, company pressure to do it cheap. Growth of blister rust.

15:00 - Horses to donkeys, then back to horses; steam donkey settings

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Segment Synopsis: Horses to donkeys, and then back to horses as well. Steam donkey settings.

24:00 - Before railroads there were drives on the rivers and creeks; flumes and chutes; danger of speeding logs

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Segment Synopsis: Before the railroads there were drives on the rivers and creeks. Flumes and chutes: danger of speeding logs. Slowing down chutes. (Continued)

30:00 - Slowing logs in chutes; cleaning snow out of chute; grease caused fires; used donkeys and horses with chutes

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Segment Synopsis: Slowing logs in chutes. Cleaning snow out of chute in morning. Grease caused chute fires. Using donkeys and horses with chutes. Fire danger stopped use of donkeys in summer. Why chutes were used.

39:00 - Trouble wit first cats compared to horses; use of helicopters and cats now

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Segment Synopsis: Trouble with first cats compared to horses. Use of helicopters and cats now.

45:00 - Selective logging looked much better than clear-cutting

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Segment Synopsis: Selective logging looked much better than clear-cutting.

51:00 - IWW's prevented him from getting men on train in Spokane for Potlatch, so he enlisted; need to change conditions in camps

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Segment Synopsis: IWW's prevented him from getting men on train in Spokane for Potlatch, so he enlisted. IWWs trailed him. Need to change conditions in camps.

54:00 - Desire to enlist in army in WWI; letters of recommendation to get into forestry unit

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Segment Synopsis: Desire to enlist in army in World War I. Letters of recommendation to get into forestry unit. Training before going overseas.

60:00 - Lack of education compared to others in troop; practical ability and their book knowledge

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Segment Synopsis: Lack of education compared to others in troop. His practical ability and their book knowledge.

66:00 - Building cabins in army camp; location of camp; members of 20th Engineers, 36th Company

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Segment Synopsis: Building cabins in army camp. Location of camp. Members of 20th Engineers, 36th Company.

72:00 - Armistice Day and night; drinking with the major while men drank and worked hard

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Segment Synopsis: Armistice Day and night. Drinking with the major. Men drank, and worked hard. His best chum was a black first lieutenant. Coming back one day late on a pass. Don't make excuses in the army. Dealing with captain after a drink. Drinking with the captain. Getting sick on wine.

90:00 - Baths in barber shop; Wobblies got showers in camp; washing in creek; controlling moonshine

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Segment Synopsis: Baths in barber shop - you had to put up with rough conditions to have a job. Wobblies got showers in camp. Washing in creek. Other Wobbly achievements. Some didn't show appreciation for improvements. Controlling moonshine by firing men who were drunk Monday morning. Wood-Em-Up-George's wit in firing men. U.S. Pelton told his boys they should log at work instead of in camp. Pelton family operation.

92:00 - Family drive on Sunday, ice cream for kids, bootleg for him

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Segment Synopsis: Family drive on Sunday: ice cream for the kids, bootleg for him. A drink after a night on the snowplow from a deputy in the bootleg joint. He'd drink with the men in town. Advising an old friend to give up bar.

93:00 - Irishman Pat Malone in Duluth; two lumberjacks poured the evidence on Pat

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Segment Synopsis: Pat Malone was one of the Irishmen in Duluth. Two lumberjacks poured the evidence on Pat. Potlatch brass.


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