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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

« View All J. Les & Marie J. Clark interviews

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Date: July 09, 1976 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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MARIE CLARK: that old bachelors and they mined, Idon't know what else they did living out in the woods. I remember there were two brothers that were twins lived in there. And the University of Idaho has acopy of every drop of the news that was ever printed and their names might be in there.

SAM SCHMAGER: So people picnicked a lot in there?

MC: Oh, yes, that was the place to go, oh, yes, and you could play around in the water if it wasn't too Particularly $mday School and Church picnics were there. Idon't remember how many cabins, but there were quite a few, and there was a road, it was made with a scoop shovel, you probably never saw that, you're too young, with a horse pulling and then aman guiding^ 'behind, and that's the way they made their roads then.

SS: And so this dam was taken out eventually? I don't think you can see any bit of it anymore, when Les comes I'll Now did you go into the bar up there and see that picture? Of the mill?

No. I haven't seen that one.

You mustn't miss it. You must not miss that, that is wonderful. And this is what my husband could foresee from this what apicture it if would make. hangs there in the bar, belongs to Mr. Lamb I wish he had done one for us at the same time, but it's one foot by four and all in colors. Iwouldn't have seen that atall, but he did and it attracted so much attention and of course, the company would like to buy it, but it isn't for sale.

SS: This is a good picture, too. That was the third largest electric mill in the world. In the paper Ithink Virginia had the first, but it was the third, and oh, there was a few other things in there that the dates and things had been changed. But that was abig industry and we used to play in the lumber piles around there. And this little railway they had with these machines that just pulled the lumber stacks or the lumber, rather, It was just like alittle city, they would get all over ,and the young men got those jobs and they delivered astack of lumber, would be high, -well, you would call it a trailer today, Iguess, to the spot that they were ordered to take it, and then it was stacked by the lumber pilerf who made real good money. And the same way to deliver it, if there was asale of that particular lumber, this is the way they dried it, they would take it out and when it was ready for shipping and it was stacked at arailroad that went around the back by the planer to pick this up. In fact I sat with the man that had charge of that I think to day at the funeral.

SS: Wio's funeral was it?

Mr. Pettigrew. Do you remember seeing the story or do you take the Tribune?

Not now, we used to but not now.

This is aman that- you might have read of it in your paper, though, that had the eye transplant afew weeks ago, in April, right after This is the one, this is they were talking about and that's his wife and this is his mother and baby. And my brother »as in Japan and he called- he went to see them and they sent those back to me because I in school. And here In Southern California with his family, Idon't know whether the name is on the back or not.

SS: George Pika?(Peeka)

Oh, this shows the little railroad tracks they had in there.

Did you know Charley Segarl?

Yes, I knew all of 'em and his daughter.

What do you remember of them being like?

MC: Gay?

SS: Yes, folks.

MC: Oh, very nice, but they stayed to themselves. They would attend any civic programs and anything done by the school, they'd always attend. But they did not mix with the people. I don't know whether they wereA supposed to then, but they did not. They were treated well and respected. That little was the cutest thing. There's so much in alot of places, they did come up against a lot of dislike, Imean Oriental people, in the West, in alot of places they did. I don't imagine they did in Elk River, but Iwould think maybe they would be pretty reluctant to get too much involved in He worked- Here's the mother and father and the girl that live in Japan now. He worked in the planer, Ithink, and Ithink Mr. Segar did, too. But Kowakani^ they owned alaundry, if Iremember right ly. Now somebody brought her name up and that may have been Virginia too. Homburgs had a store there and they lived in an apartment There was some suspicion that Charlie Sega, was working for the Japanese government while he was there. Could have been, but- You know they wanted to know what the K was like and the layout. Inever heard it. And Idon't know whether Les ever did or not, he boy and worked for Bill,who had the paper then. Too bad Bill is not mentally able to- was shaking my brother in the hallway of the school there by the third and fourth grade room, and he hit his head on ahook and Ihappened to come around the corner and saw him do that; what would Ibe? Nine years old, Iguess. Then, several years lgter ^ for afire escape, they had one of these canvas slides, abrand new one, they got to hook in the window on the second story on the right hand side as you go into the building. And this CalklnS didn,t like- this family of Martins and this one boy, Ican't remember his first name, Ithink the last name was Martin, and he boosted him up to this slide to go down ahead of „, a?d do you know that man actually took that boy's foot and twisted it? Ican remember that so well. And I know Calkins was there before Newland.

What was he like as a teacher?

Idon't know, because he had the upper grade as a teacher.

You obviously didn't like him.

Thank God he was gone. And this Newman was very sweet to me all the time. There's some beautiful pictures in here. I'll have to go down and get that other old one. See, this is one building that's standing. What Dad built when he was there. When Icame down here to school and this mill was being built. This is my brother, Fred seven on the comer as you go into Elk River, as you enter, by the school crossing, if you just look right straight ahead where that green house, well.my folks owned that place, but that front porch was not enclosed then. Let me see, there is one reason why Ihave this up here, I want to show you what it looked like. This is the sunken garden.

SS: That's really pretty.

Um-huh, it was ashow place and my mother did all that work, but it's amess now. She took pictures in the winter and summer and all times. This gives you an idea how people at that time took care of Ann their yards. You met up there and she has abeautlful yard.

What happened to your little sister that she died?

Meningitis. Meningitis; three days and she was gone. She had the non-contagious kind, which is fatal. If you live through it, it is contagious, and Ididn't know that until we owned anewspaper down in California and became acquainted with some parents and Marv's husband had had meningitis as aman^and oh, Iwas real interested because it was arare thing to live through that, and that's when she told me, and of course^'ve heard it many times. And we don't know, the doctors, of course, that's back in 1923, and they had a serum in Chicago, but it would take two days to fly it out here, well, of course she wouldn't have lived that long, and then, too, if she had she probably wouldn't have been right because it was so much in the brain. And it would have been hard, because she was such a brilliant little girl. Her birthday was in January and therefore she couldn't start to school with her friends in September, that would be the September of 1915- she was born in '16 But when she did, the next year, they had two grades in aroom, she made those grades. She learned alot though at home from us and she was areal sharp little thing.

That must have been a blow to the family.

MC: something like that. Just as vivid of course today as it was that day- or those three days. She had abad accident with another little girl.

They used to coast, you know from the hill where the Catholic Church was? Did anybody point that out to you where up on the hill?

Iknew it was there in town, but Ididn't know exactly where. Well, if you were facing the schoolhouse it would be that street where- well, where Mrs. Fine lives and it went all the way up to the top, and that's where the church was. And we had wide stepsbut, shall we say shallow? iVot very high, and you could coast down there. You'd start up pretty high, but most of the time these younger children, well, even I, would start at the bottom st«p, which is right where the one house- well, Iguess there's two houses upthere, Iguess now, the one house- and you could start^^ and go a long ways. She had been forbidden to go coasting there, but she couldn't stand it of course with all her little friends there, so take her Tuki- they were very, very close little friends. It's just amazing how those little kids were at that time. And she was eight years younger than I. And darn, if a little Spitz dog didn't run in front of them when they got to the crossing, and to avoid hitting it, they were going belly-buster, if you know how that is in coasting, do you?

Just laying flat out?

Well, the guider, the one who steers lays flat and we, «R Elk River kneeled between their legs over the body, and we called it belly-bus ter, but alot of places they lay flat on top of the other, but we didn't do that. And hit the telephone pole. It threw both the girls of course into the pole and Tuki bled internally, she was pret ty sick and my sister, Ibelieve, she probably jU8t bled, too. And they should have rushed her right off to Spokane, both of the girls, why they didn't, Idon't know. And Helen seemed to get better

SS: But Mrs. Shimmel right there^ * she just picked her up and that was carried her honrc. Well, she recovered from that-before she went to school. And then she fell on the ice backwards, one time and hurt her head, complained alot. And the third °^ W^Juat before school was out, she fell on the desk in school and cut her head open here, but they say^all those things could have contributed to it but how do we know? Science has come a long ways since then- and we had avery good doctor that recognized the disease right away. But it was a horrible thing, all you did was just wait for her to die. And you know, at times she was rat ional, because she asked for me, "Where is Marie?" and they came out and got me, because I was in and out anyway all the time. And then one time Iwas in the kitchen and here she was walking out of the bedroom on her little tiptoes in the night, she was thirsty; she knew where to go get that drink. So, it was just one of those things.

You say it was quick, it didn't take long?

Three days. And aviolent headache. Terrible headache. They just spent all of their time over her and watching her and doing what they could.

And you say that she and her friends were really close? Was that un usual for kids to be as close as that? Well, Oh, Idon't think so because it goes with the neighborhood I feel. Now, these little girls played together right there in our neighborhood. However, Tuki,as the daughter of the postmistress, as they called 'em then. post office then.

So you figure that Elk River was the kind of place where kids really did know each other especially well?

Oh, yes, and we commented on that when we were all together. Oh, ves

SS: I just get so thrilled with any of these Elk River people that I see. Now at the Golden Anniversary for the village, Iwas just hugging and kissing all the time, all ,we hadn't seen each other for so long. And there is a couple of Italian women living here and one I haven't seen since I came back- it's just the way my life has been here, very ijjperesting. Ilike it. But she got, when she recognized who Iwas she just came and kissed me all over my face, and pulled me down and kissed me some more.

Well, tell me a little bit of, you know, what that meant, I mean to be so close- how the kids were so close in Elk River.

I think more like family- a great deal of compassion for each other. That's kind of abig word for kids^but we had our spats and fights, sure. And we'd be mad at somebody for a little while and get over it. But now you take those three men in my class that were here and then there was one^came from Denver too, that graduated ahead of us and they were just so close, they had done so many happy things together as children up there and boys growing up all over the woods. Keith was- Well, all four of 'em, jast to watch 'em, so happy to be to gether. And one of them is almost blind, so when Iwrote and asked him about- well, what Isaid was- "I'm wondering if you have given any thought to what an important vear this is?" And they had all three men.K And you know they answered right away and they answered also by telephone. Well, this one that is going blind from- Well, it seems to me like what .was struck with when I was at Elk River, that little program that they have- it seemed to me that Elk River was a very close town. I don't know why, it should seem closer than the other towns, (noisy)

Everybody that- well, maybe Ishouldn't say everybody, because there were people that came there that were not so happy. They sensed the same thing, and while they lived there they liked it. Every child loved it. There were a lot of things to do and ways to make your own fun. We went swimming in the river. And we could ice skate every winter. Jf it was real cold and then it turned warm enough to snow, it might snow a foot or two and you wouldn't be able to skate, but, some of the big boys, like Ed was a big boy when I was a little girl, they would go down there and there were several Scandinavians in town, lots of them, were skaters and clamped skates on. The Scandinavians had skates that were made of wood and that part fit on the sole of vour shoe and had big, curved blade, they made them theirselves. And they we would shovel paths through the snow on the ice so could skate all those places. My mother alwavs went with me, sht'd ±*Mf, J6Ln but there weren't any other girls that skated like that, but my mother was such a good sport and so broadminded and she'd take us so we could do everything. Then when my husband came in 1923 and they had ice, he never lets my brother live this down, his skates, he didn't know it, he had sent forA Canada, and they were lying in the depot, but Mr. Copeland hadn't notified him they were there, so he didn't have his own skates and he asked my brother if he could horror. his, but he said no, he was afraid he would ruin them. Of course, that's before we knew Les, really, another fellow loaned his skates to Les. And that whole weekend we had practically the whole town down there watching him skate. Beautiful skater; hockey player, and I think he was the best ice skater that ever came to town.

SS: He'd come from Canada?

MC: Yes, he was born in Manitoba, and lived mostly in Trail. He played on Trail's hockey teams and Province champions one year. Idon't know how he did so much, really. Well, for one thing, he was real sharp in school. Started at four years of age. They had room and they let him go to school in a country school and he learned. So, he was through high school and he learned his trade of six years before he ever came to this country.^ He was so selfsatisfied with what he did; Well, he kept up, he went to school for alot of things in Oakland and San Francisco. And when he couldn't work on his feet any more because of leg injuries, he had to learn the linotype and he did. He was a terrific operator, even yet.A So we've had a better life, Iguess than average people, as far as things that have hap pened that were interesting in our life. But, of course, that's getting away from Elk River again. Our school life up there. I appreciate the fact that we were required to take university- well, that isn't right-

SS: Preparation.

Preparation and of course, so we were qualified to enter univer sity. Anybody goes to school from Elk River, if they are a student at all, can pass all those examinations that you have to take- well, I don't know if it is that way today or not. I think that- I heard something recently that Elk River students rated very high, just recently on a state wide basis.

MC: Well, you know, the mayor of Lewiston is an Elk River born boy, We called him Dickie- Dick Adams. And as mentioned there many highly successful professionals got their start in Elk River. Was he Harry Adams son?

Uh-huh, son. He was at the Golden Anniversary.

Was Harry much of a character as George said he was?

Well, you know, Inever saw Harry in a lot of those frolics you hear about^because Iguess Iwas too little and he worked with George, and I'm sure he was, Iknow he played a lot of jokes on people all the time. And he was a lumber cruiser, too, if I re member it right. Oh, wait a minute, maybe I'm getting that part mixed up with EMie |ricfeson:

SS: Eddie was a cruiser, well, where did Harry Adams work, did they say. In the poolhall. He had a poolhall. some But I think he worked ,the mill, as I remember. He never owned it, but he worked in it, in apoolhall. And we had,^ at one time we had four poolhalls, even five. That front street from Main Street to the red building at the other end of the block had a poolhall, the Wilson Hotel, which housed the barbershop, one barbershop, and then there was a big building beside it that was a poolhall and there was a bunkhouse, which in the beginning was the church and the school. Now, I didn't attend school there, by the time Iwas old enough to go they had built the one that stands today. And then the office building. Another thing they had, next to the print shop was a lumber business, lumber- Idon't think they c^led it a yard, it was all enclosed, but it sold and shipped lumber out of Elk River. Whether they were connected with the Potlatch or not Idon't know. And Idon't know- well, George would know.

While you're talking about poolhalls, makes me wonder how your parents felt about kids being around the lumberjacks downtown, that sort of thing. Did they have any—

No fear. There was nothingNever happened with alumberjack moles ting a child in that town. I don't think ever that Iknow of. (noisy) Those children could run and go any place and if you were out on the road, especially between Elk River and Bovill or Moscow, in the beginning, when they had- Iwouldn't say aroad, it wasn't a highway, any trouble, they'd just come right down from the woods and help you. But today, no, not as Elk River is today, we wouldn't be afraid. I remember one summer we teenage girls slept outside on the lawns every night, mostly at our house, pull mattresses around and sleep out there.

SS: What about the drinking?

MC: Kids never did.

SS: I know the kids wouldn't be drinking, but I mean-

MC: Well, they probably tasted it in their teens, moonshine and stuff, but I was never in that kind of company and I don't know any of the girls that ever did. Not any time I was there.

SS: I was asking more about the lumberjacks in town, you know, about them seeing that kind of stuff. Because I've known in some towns,

MC: they kind of seemed to be concerned about that kind of sort of thing. ^It was different then, quite a bit different. Kids accepted the poolhall and they could go in and get a candy bar, and each one of those men who owned the poolhalls very ^ 006 4o child ren. We had to deliver meat, as you heard me say, maybe a cookie, donut or something like that for delivering. But we could have a candy bar from Joe Pavish or Ed Allen. And that's how strict my dad was. And he had far more to drink that he should have- is this going on here? I won't say that. (Chuckles) But then when they had Prohibition, why- I get mixed up on this- Prohibition is when you don't - when it's not legal

SS: Yes, when it's not legal. Well, of course then they had all the moonshine and everything. But, it still wasn't rowdy or anything to be concerned about. And there were times when some person who was wanted would come to

SS: town and our sheriffs and police were very good at spotting them. But lots could have gone on that I didn't know, too. Another thing it said in one article that Mr. who was the drugstore- drug gist, he was not,— he had nothing to do at all in anyway with the drugstore. I don't know whether you saw that story that came out in Clearwater Tribune? Ma Vine showed me a copy of that and I glanced at it, but I haven't actually read the article yet.

MC: And I sent it on to my brother.

MC: he's the only member of his family in the United States, and he learned his trade in Germany, well, like all tradesmen do, takes four, five or six years and he barnstormed around Europe for experience which they were required to do, and he says he made sausage for the Kaiser, but I don't know if he did or not. And he decided, I guess Nhe wanted to come to the United States and he had an uncle in Kansas so he did. He went there first. I don't know how long he stayed, I don't think he even stayed a year, then he went on to Denver. And Denver had quite a settlement of German people. He belonged to the Turnverein,Nand made sausage there in Denver. But his health failed- well, he married my mother- her cousin introduced them, who was a butcher, too. And for his health he had to get out of Denver and he landed in Palouse with Henry Burns- was his boss. And I was seven months old and we stayed there until I was four. I was just four when they left there. Fred was born there. And he went into business for himself and there was another meat market in town at that time, too. But it didn't last very long. I don't know whether Dad bought him out or not. The one huilding that stands along there, that pink colored two-story building, that was where Dad had his first market. Then right beside it, with no more than a foot be tween the two, was this second building that he rented first and we lived above it, and then he eventually bought that and he had bought this lot on the corner where he built. Do you know what made him decide to go to Elk River? Well, yes. The fact that he would be his boss and independent and there was a new town getting started. I think those were the reasons. So, then he stayed there until 1960. 1912 til 1960. And he- well, those last years he was in Elk River he didn't own it, he had to sell because he had bursitis in both arms and shoulders and he couldn't work, and then he was sick, We had to dispose of the meatmarket.

SS: Was your mother German as well?

Yes, but born in Denver. And her parents came over here from Bremen. But they met here, they were not married when they came. My grand mother had a twin sister who came with her from Germany. So, their name was Peterson, Grandpa changed his name, been Hoeting.(?) Now his brother used the name of Hoeting, but for some reason he changed his. And he sailed around the world three times, he was a sailor eight years. He could even- he owned the property that the Denver Capitol stands on today, do they call that a capitol? At one time. That's how they happened to come to this part of the country. When he started in Elk River, did he start with apretty good sized market, or did it take him a long time to build up?

MC: You mean trade?

SS: Yes. He started very well. It was hard work, mama had been helping him make the sausages and hamburgers and stay up until two or three o' clock in the morning grinding it all by hand. And he sold to the camps at that time. Then he- I don't know when he was able to buy an electric grinder- when that came in, but when he got that, of course, it helped a lot and then we had to help too. We made weiners and sausages and Fred and I had to take 4urns turning that handle. And then Dad would twist the weinees and the sausages, just perfect, each^time, you know perfect, every length. It was fascinating, inand teresting, had a big back room. He raised chickens, imported them alive, too. we'( have to help clean those chickens; just little kids. And had benches to work on. I couldn't eat chicken -from for years, and years, and years; I smelled^wet feathers all the time. And I can just see, he would scald these chickens and lay them on the bench and then he would show us how- his big hands, you know, he would rip half the feathers off at one time and here we were, these little kids taking that stuff and Mom, tool So you kids were expected to work, expected to help? my family, not all families, because we didn't like it when we had to deliver meat where there were kids that could go and get it. Many a time we broke trails to school, when it would snow, delivering Nmeat. My mother was very much opposed to it. And Dad didn't use his head very much, when we look back, I know she and I talked about it a lot. We should not have worked so hard. We had lots of play time, too, as far as that goes. And if we were out playing, Dad wouldn't interrupt us to^deliver the meat unless it was very impor tant. He'd say, "Well, no, this is a playtime, you'll have to wait a while." I forgot what I was leading up to. Do you think that was basically old country? Yes, more so, yes, I think so. Oh, yes, But it's the way he - that swhat you hafckids for. KHe should have paid us so much aweek. And each year increase to teach us how to handle money. When I got old enough to learn that they got allowances, why, I didn't know what they meant at first.A And then Fred and I grew tall so young, that's one reason I claim that I have round shoulders was because I was tired working hard like that, and I would slump and they would try to make me straighten up and I bother. Well, besides delivering and you knew you were expected grinding and all that stuff- Well, when we were very small, yes, but after Dad got the electric grinder we didn't. He could handle it all himself then. Well, of course the boys, both brothers, had to learn that and Fred lost these two fingers on a Fourth of July.

SS: When he x*as still a kid?

MC: Um-huh. My mother's brother was there visiting when that happened.

SS: What was he doing?

Pushing the meat into the big grinder; it was a big thing and he didn't get his fingers out and he wasn't supposed to do that, he didn't use the paddle. The paddle was there to be used. And of course on the Fourth of July-

--Before Christmas, this was all sawdust; we slipped into the market but it wasn't this one, it was when we first moved there, what was he two and a half, I guess, and I was about four- I was four, past fourand we scooped up the sawdust and threw it in all that meat and we threw it- and he had pickle barrels and sauerkraut here and they were big barrels, threw it in there. And Mother said, nU*s a good thing we had company, because when your dad aame in and told her what had happened, if that lady hadn't been visiting, you would have sure gotten a whipping." But by the time she left and he cooled off, he didn't touch us. But, he told us we wouldn't get anything for Christmas, and we didn't. On Christmas Eve we went to the Baldersons and Mary an only child and she got a little piano and little table and chairs and Santa Claus came in and do you think Fred and Iwer^ under the table! We hid. She had the tablecloth that hung clear to the floor, and^ when Santa Claus came out- came in, rather, it was her father and knowing the story he knew we were there he found us. "Are you the little boy and girl that threw the sawdust in the pickles and the meat?" "Yes." We knew better than to cry. We didn't get a thing that night. But the eext morning, we had some toys on our bed. Oh, he really taught us some hard les sens. Of course, we don't regret it, we figure we're better people for it.

Was it really that bad what you'd done? Throwing sawdust in?

No- it was just- well, it was bad enough, yes, because, that was darn hard to get out of the pickles and the sauerkraut. And he got it off of the beef easy, but he just had a terrible time getting it off of the veal. (Chuckles)_

Had you done it just for the heck of it?

I don't know; at that age how do you know? How would Iremember? What you were doing it for?

I'm sure we knew better, especially I. It was fun, Iguess, he wasn't around. You know, I have heard that- Dp you know Frank Brocke? Yes, very well.

He was telling me of how his father used to come in and play Santa Claus.

That's more real, the way it should be, than it is today. Les and I fill each other astocking every year at Christmastime or a little boot andN more fun than any other part of our Christmas. Chewing gum and toilet articles we need and always some real nice thing. inis was in the bottom of mine two years ago.A And wc rtno-v it. And if we were going to have company for Christmas, why, his cousins that were here the other day and they came and spent Christmas with us and we warned them to bring something for each person to go in the They thought stocking or the boot, whatever I fixed. ' that that was a lot of fun.

SS: What was Christmas like in Elk River?

MC: Well, it wasn't as it is today, by any means. We always had a Christmas tree and candles, and no electric lights, of course then. And I think everybody had the same as we. We'd hover around the Who stove for those of us had no fireplace; there weren't too many fireplaces then. Oh,, of course, the big thing of all was the,, pro gram in the church every Christmas Eve. We always had our Christ mas in the morning, and I think it was just okay, lot of fun. We didn't know what adime store was, or anything, you know, to pick up theK items that you can today, and the drugstore handled everything. Mr. Morris got very nice things in for Christmas, good dishes for children and toys of all kinds. In fact, one Christmas Fred and Iwoke up and on the bed was a box, like this, I don't remember whether Helen was a baby then or not, whether we had her we shared the same room, and we got a set of ani mals. Ican show you, Istill have some of them, that were jointed. It was a circus set and each animal could do stunts. There were two chairs, two ladders, abarrel and then that big tub thing, all of wood and these things are made yet today in Germany and very costly. The last time I saw a set was at I. Magnin's in Oakland and that's and that W3S $75 and *think in Germany $175. And two of the cutest clowns, I have one left. I took his little suit off and cleaned and washed it and everything and put it back on him and that I want to stay in my family. We only have one little grandniece, but Fred- John, had three children, and I want to be sure that they would like to preserve them before I hand them down. I have a tiger and an elephant downstairs. And =c mu/.. You got all that at Christmas; that one Christmas? Yes, all these things came in this one box and it would be about this size.

SS: For the two of you?

Yes. Oh, I think I got a doll besides. One year I got three dolls. Nice big ones and Idon't know why Inever preserved them, or really what happened to those dolls.

You know, you're talking about your father and your mother; it sounds as if- this is something that I'd really be interested in, you know, finding out how kids were raised in those days; parents' attitudes. It sounds like your mother was a lot more lenient towards you than your dad.

Oh, yes. However, he never objected to anything she did for us, what she bought, how she clothed us or anything, and we were nicely dressed. They had very hard times in the First World War, practi cally lost everything. And it was real hard for them. But Christ mas and birthdays, were the only time you received anything special. the Fourth of July was the other big day and Easter. When we had Easter, Mom would color at least two dozen eggs and Dad hid them. If Easter was early they'd be^ in the meat market or over in the back room. If it was late and we didn't have any snow, we'd have it outside. Then after we found all the eggs, we would rehide them ourselves. All day long, when we went to Sunday School, we never mis sed and we always had new Easter clothes, we hid- hide-and-seek the eggs, and took turns.

Were a lot of families doing the same thing?

I don't know, I guess they did. I really don't know.

This was the family?

Yes, our family. We did it that way. I really don't know, ask Jo y if they did it that way.

How were decisions made in the family between the parents? Did vour father give your mother much say-so about things?

MC: hat's old German- stubborn.That's old country again, and that's true of Scandinavians. All old country, even Italians. But she was a far better business woman than Dad was a business man. And far better Excellent executive. She took ahold of anything like Ladies Aid she was there. She was president seven years and very suc cessful with it. But she'd have good cooperation, everybody would work for her. She was willing to take the responsibility. Did she help manage the business? But she worked in it. Dad said she was the best looking butcher in town! Well, of course, there was only one. But he never let me be hind the counter. Never could I cut anything.

SS: I wonder why.

Because he knew I was- he said I was a little scatterbrain and I would lose afinger. But he knew ^I'd been in there because I would- Iloved liver sausage, and Iwould slice it straight down instead of on a slant, but he never got after me for it. What had was good, you know, it was good things, and toys for Christmas and birthdays and they were important, just as important to Dad as they were to us.

Do you think that- you know- Iwill have to wonder whether like vour mother would feel- she could have done a better job with some of that stuff than he could, like managirg and that sort of thing, you know. Did she just keep her mouth shut about it?

No, well, I guess she knew- (there is a break at this point_and when -the conversation picks up_ .againsthe subject has was afraid I'd miss something over here or over there, I didn't want to miss anything, so I didn't concentrate hard enough. And you never had to do a lot of memorizing in school like my husband- oh, in Canada, it was terrific what they were taught- in memorization. It was easy for Fred, and John was a good student, Helen would have been real good, I think. And another thing, we were raised, as I say, well, strict. Very firm, my dad. And because he was in busin ess we had to watch what we did. We weren't free to do a lot of things other children did; somebody x^ould talk about it, we were not supposed to do this or that. So, there was a damper. What would owning abusiness make about a difference—? (very noisy) It was Dad's idea. And another thing, you know, people would run and tattle everything they possibly can, and he, Mama used to get mad at him because he would listen to somebody else first. And if you get a spanking in school, you'd get one at home. Like what kind of things, for instance, were other kids able to do that you weren't?

Seemed to have a lot more freedom to go do things than we did. We could take part in anything that was supervised in the school or Sun day School and everything, we could play a lot. But Idon't know, I don't know how to explain it. At home- oh, one thing we had to be pretty quiet when we lived above the meat market, make too much noise downstairs. At certain times,we could play. I know Helen had a nice big buggy for her and the hall ran the full length of the building and all three of us could get in that big buggy and ride back and forth, but we couldn't do that from four to six. 7fe- bv*/ hc^r. What would the kind of play be that you would do as you were growing up? Say as a teenager with other girls or people?

MC: Well, we did a lot of hiking, I'd say and picnicking and mushrooming in the spring, huckleberrying and I guess we went swim ming in the cold river.

SS: A lot of nature kind of stuff?

No, you know, that is something we didn't have was the nature study when it was right there atA back door. Since I lived up there or especially after living in Nevada City, California where we did and I saw what these artists did with what I had in mv yard, I wonder why^we didn't think of that. Years ago, all the wreaths we could have made and all these fancy little things you pay quite a bit in the store for today. Just rocks, they paint them and all that sort of thing, or make a little plaque and have part of the bark standing up. pine cones or any little berry that would harden you could use.

So, you just enjoyed it but you never-

We used to make jewelry out of clovers, clover blossoms. Rings and necklaces, we would braid them and crowns for our . But there were ways we kept busy. Ialways had aplayhouse, real nice play- house; my mother would fix it up for me and other girls did, too. We even made playhouses out of great, big cartons. Played school.

SS: What was that house made out of?

Mine? Well, behind the meat market was an old building that was built half way up with lumber I guess and tar paper and then the enting, canvas, and the roof was tenting. one room. She fixed that up and nobody was living there and we played in that, my girl friends and I. But some of the other girls had nice little playhouses their father's could build for them, but my dad couldn't do anything with a hammer and a nail, and he never had time anyway. And then I can remember one of the girls had a- she had five bro thers, but at that time she only had two, Herbie and J^ and Herb would play with us. We'd get these big cartons and put them on their backyard and cut doors in them and we'd have to crawl in and out. But, well, we just didn't have cars, we had wagons, no bicy cles. You couldn't ride a bicycle up there easily in those days, board sidewalks. And when Fred got his I was in the sixth grade and he saved for I don't know how long, months and months, maybe longer to buy a Ranger bicycle, it was $75 then. Of course, I had to drive it. I'd do everything he did, I played ball and I ice ska ted - and we couldn't have roller skates either, no place to roller skate. So, I learned to ride the bike, I took some horrible spills and then I rode my boy friends on it, too. And John told Dad about it and I didn't get bicycle any more, which was right, I had no business riding those kids on the bike; an expensive bike like that. I don't resent it one bit, it was right. And after falling and skinning myself all over I didn't care. But the fellow that I used to coast with when I was in the sixth grade and he was in the eighth I remember riding him. He could have ridden himself but of course I wasn't supposed to let anybody just ride it. Wintertime was a lot of fun in the snow and in building forts and coasting. One winter we had- it was when there was no .back of the schoolhouse or up to wards the cemetery it had all been burned out, all of that had all been burned over, well, completely around Elk River had been burned over, but not all at once, and there was lots of stumps. Apparent ly the woodsmen went up and cut them off, Idon't know, but we had a very deep snow and it rained a little bit and it froze, and you know, we could start way up there and could go up and down all these bumps and hills and slide and coast^-fatvlong time; as long as the cold lasted.

SS: That must have been great. We had, oh, lots of fun. And^big fellows- and here's the Scandina vians again- they would build their own bobsleds. The Hendrickson boys had some pretty nice ones, they had two. And they were gener- ous, they were good to we little kids, and we coasted down the hill where the Morrises live, we'd start up at the top there and go all the way down to the railroad track; and that was one of the favorite hills. And we lived over there in this meat market, above this meat market and so I would go and they would let me ride and then pull me back up the hill.

Was that how it would mostly be, on bobsleds, the kids would ride?

Would it be on single sleds?

Everyone had-^everyone did- we had our own and competition! Who had the fastest Flexible Flyer, among the boys, chiefly. (I can't imagine what happened to Les, or why he didn't call.) But I think the winter was just great fun, too, and the summers were alright; picnics and- well, through the church they would get the youngsters together and take them on these picnics down the dam, that was the favorite place then. When I was older and in high school, we x^ould go up towards the camps- what do you call that p^ce up there? Walk five miles to go on a picnic and just young people, those that lived and others that were in school and some of the fel lows. Some of those fellows are gone, they're dead already.

SS: How big of a group would go?

MC:

MC: Eight, ten, well maybe fifteen, twenty. And we had lots of house parties in the wintertime. We'd go find out which mother would let us have a party and we played spin-the-bottle and post office and all those kind of games. Monwas real generous, she let us have the parties a lot, and she would have very nice birthday parties for us, always. And another friend and I had a birthday four days apart so as we got older in high school we'd celebrate them together, and that was nice, too.

SS: Did you play- did you do those games like-

MC: Run-Sheep-Run all over the hills? Iwas thinking of the playparty games like Skip-to-My-Lou and those kind. We did quite a lot of that right at every recess, which was once in the morning and once in the afternoon.

SS: Pullaway? Uh-huh. You had a base there and a base here. And whoever was "it" had to try to catch the person that was crossing from one side to the other, well, if he was caught he became one of the "its", too. And there was one fellow called Eddie Hendrickson, who was the fast est runner at that time. Nobody could ever catch him. And one time he was out there being real smart and he didn't know that I was also because Istood too close to the base and I just quietly got up behind himAand tapped him quickly three times, and he just stood there he was so surprised. Well, Iwas the hero- the heroine then for along time, I'd caught Eddie Hendrickson. And things like that we did. It sounds like a pretty good spread of ages to be playing together, too. Oh, the full eight grades did on that playground. Outside of school, would the kids mix over apretty good age?

MC: I think, yes, I think they did, but they stayed more in their own neighborhood. they didn't run around altogether all the time. I know when we lived over above the meat market I played with the kids on the n*xt block and we were talking about this the other day The church had a high sidewalk and we could play under it. We played under there pretty much, of course, in the summer, too, be cause we were not in the direct sun and we talked about that, again. That was a lot of fun. I don't know we did, we built things and played house. The boys would be the poppa and the girls the mama. And one time we were talking and I asked Glen and Keith if they remembered this. Well, we called 'em fellows, friend then was a fellow. I said, "Well, everybody has a fellow but me-

MC: Just howled, but they didn't remember it, and I thought it was just real smart, I had a boyfriend, too.

SS: Was that important to girls?

MC: Uh-huh. Oh, I think so, but neither one remembered, but I can remem ber, Glen saial, "You do, too, it's Keith." (Chuckles)

SS: Well, when you were dating what did you do? If you were going out together, what sorts of things did you do?

MC: walking, hiking mainly in beginning high school, because none of those boys had a car. And the first place you walked in the spring would be the railroad track when the snow was gone, and that first and when you were going to dances, you went to dances when we were old enough. I allowed to go until I was fifteen and then my dad didn't approve of it, but he let me go, and he'd say, "You be home at ten o'clock or I'll come and git vou." I can remember that finger and that "git you", I was home.

MC: the old gym. That was- well, the gym of course was not there when the town was built. The first dancehalls were above the store that was- ran parallel across the street to Dad's meat market, the building that stands now. And then, the other dance hall was the Odd Fellows hall, which isn't there at all any more, below the drugstore by the alley. I don't think there was no place else ever danced at all that I know of.

SS: Would it be a local group, an Elk River group at that time?

MC: Oh, yes, oh yes! Gee, we had a wonderful town band.

SS: I saw a picture.

MC: Yeah, here it is.

SS: Did they play for dances?

MC: Uh-huh. Oh, no,^the band entirely, but some- oh, this is what I saved, wanted you to see. Some of these fellows played in the orchestra. NMaybe five and six pieces and the women played the piano and had some good piano players then, and Bill Marineau played a clarinet and this trombone player played, and Kennedy played in there and this was our bandmaster, Mr. Sibbetts. And there was a band in all the little towns and they would travel on the train and have competitions and things or go for Fourth of July, but they'd all come home so darn plastered that the wives would get mad.

SS: What kind of music?

Oh, the good old-time music, that we still like, waltzes and twosteps and the fox trots and three-steps.

SS: Did they play at the dances?

MC: They played^at the dance, all the popular tunes at that time, let's see some of them- when I got married- let's see if I can think of it- we've got loads of music in here.

SS: When did you get married?

MC: 1930. But I'm trying to think. At that time popular tunes were Tiptoe Through the Tulips, but before that there were many of the other popular tunes.

SS: But this was popular music-(noisy)

MC: husband plays that, too. No, we didn't have it, but all around this area here and up on these farms on the prairies, they never let it die. Les had it in Canada and he played all the Scotch tunes and he earned more money playing one night for the dances in Trail than he did all week on his trade- learning his trade, fifteen, sixteen dollars a night and he could hardly make that a week, vollur

SS: He played all these tunes?

MC: He played all the popular tunes and he played Scotch tunes.

SS: What did he play?

MC: Quadrilles or whatever they- oh, he plays the violin. He has three and he has a big bass viol downstairs. And well, in Elk River they didn't use those, but what they had were a lot of Scandinavian dances and the and waltzes. One year when Iwas going to school here they had a dance in Elk River and I didn't happen to be home that weekend, but they decided to have a real good time. . The young fellows organized it. Well, Les took the place of the man that was playing the violin and people remember this very well, and he played a tune- it's a Scandinavian tune for the Swedes, the Nor- wegians and they clapped and screamed for more and more. It was just wonderful and the man that was the depot agent at that time didn't like Les, though he knew Les and I were going together, and they were at our house every Sunday with two mean kids. He said, "Look at that guy, he thinks he can play." And of course Copeland n t dance worth beans, anyway. And when he saw what happened No, it wasn't this fiddling you hear today in country music. My he saw Les go up there with his violin and then when he played and heU it brought down the house and how happy it made everybody, he the next morning to apologize to Les when he arrived to work. He told him what he did, "I shot off my face, but I have to hand it to you, that was wonderful." He has a lot of good music in him. This is what I wanted you to see, the old ' lv house, and nobody could go through that yard without going through the.house first and And that was during the war, First World War when they had Wobblies up there, and here's the mill way back here.

SS: Do you know why he didn't like Les?

MC: Well, oh sure, one thing, Les was too mature for his age. He was too sharp, you know, they thought he was showing off; he really wasn't, it was just his natural way, the way he learned in Canada. And of course, if he said that we did it this way or that way then people would be offended. But he has all the good qualities- (cut off)

Through the summer they'd play ball, Guy Mix, he married Doris Bowen, and I don't think he's alive today, she graduated with me from college here. And, oh, if Les. was here he could tell you the names of all those fellows. They enjoyed it up there, they had a lot of fun. And every

SS: I know that the German people had a rough time during the First World War.

You bet! My dad and a Mr. Miller were the only German speaking people in town and the second war was bad enough, too. And they had to stop speaking German at home, and we were learning to speak, especially little verses Dad taught us. You know, before he passed away, he said, "Oh, yes, you used to say this-" and he'd rattle off all those little jingles and things that he taught us. But

MC: we missed the language. (Is that thing off?)

SS: No, it isn't off.

But this is part of the history, what happened to the people during and in that time.

For one thing, meat had to be rationed and the preserving processes were not what they are today so my dad lost thousands of dollars in just meat that he couldn't keep. He had an icehouse and everv win ter when they had ice; which they did every winter; but you couldn't always skate on it on account of the snow on top of it, they'd have to shovel snow off and these men would cut the ice, enough to fill his icehouse. And that's how he preserved the meat, th^icehouse they have right in the shop- iceboxefl '* in the shop- above it is where he stored all this ice, and it was a lot of work. Pull that ice out of the big icehouse, bring it in and then lift that up there above their heads, big chunks of ice. He couldn't sell the meat that he had against the ration? Yes, they'd only sell it so many days a week, I think it was two days or three days, no more than three days a week, could you sell meat.

SS: And that meant a lot of the meat went bad? Oh, sure. Well, you know, you had to ship it in by train, too and it came wrapped in paper and gunny sacks. You're bringing back a lot of things that- How come- I mean, they wouldn't let 'em just sell it to keep it from going bad? Oh, no, no, that was the law. You had to be very careful what you said and what you did, being Germans.

SS: Well that's the thing. I can't understand that, just because you're a German-

MC: Oh, no, not because you're German exactly, the people were not cruel to us, only my schoolteacher was mean. But, no, if they were mean to my mother and father in words, I didn't hear it. And no doubt there were a lot of people that made, remarks. But there were lots of Serbians and Austrians and they speak the German language, too, only boy ,Swedes, on the phone

SS: But you say- I heard this that people couldn't speak German-^ farmers, Frank Brocke used to tell me about that they didn't like to hear his mother talk on the phone.

MC: That could be true, but we didn't have that many in Elk River or enough phones, either at that time, speaking

SS: They stopped German.

MC: We did, too.

SS: I mean, your father did.

MC: Yes, he had no one to speak to but Mr. Miller, who was an old gent and he was a section boss, and I can remember him, moved he was down at Juliaetta and he raised watermelon and cantaloups in the summertime. After my dad could get a car, which was the year that Norm passed away^and we'd drive down there and fill up the car or somebody might bring it to him that was coming up from Juliaetta and he would sell these for Mr. Miller. They could speak German. I can't think of anyone else in town who spoke German. There were German people with their German background and German blood in them, but not from Germany like Dad was. He should have settled in Wis consin or even up in North Dakota where they have horrible weather. Well, look at Lawrence Welk, he never forgot his German. In those German settlements I doubt if anyone stopped speaking,, , and at least in their homes they still had it because the older ones, I suppose, the grandparents and such-

SS: Do you think your father felt that he had to his patriotism, like the Liberty Bonds. I understood that some people were really pressured, you know, felt they should buy quite a bit.

MC: Oh, no. He had some but not many, because he didn't have the money to buy them. If he was pressured to do it, I don't know. I was only in the third or fourth grade then.

SS: Your teacher was mean to you? About being German?

MC: Uh-huh. Called me one and other little things „ She's still alive. She lives in Spokane. I have three teachers living in here, in this area.

SS: Who taught you?

MC: Uh-huh. As old as I am, there are teachers here. That Mrs. Lillie that had a golden anniversary and Mrs.Basinger over in Clarkston and she was a home ec and then the music teacher, she was not con nected with the school, she lives down here three blocks, took piano from her.

SS: Did this teacher criticize you in front of the other kids?

MC: Oh, right- of course! And I never liked her and I always said, that if I ever become a schoolteacher or whatever I do, I'm going to look nice; if people have to look at me, I'm going to look nice. Because she was so sloppy and her posture was terrible. She gave me a bad time in fourth grade. And, oh, I remember the war because we would get- before the war my grandmother sent most of our clothes to us, the material, maybe the sleeves would arrive and then the next package the rest of the garment. No dut^ to pav. Fa**with clothing then material and yardage, any my mother would make it up. The last piece we had, piece, of^ wool broadcloth and there was to be more, but there never was. When I became a freshman and neededexcuse me, somebody is knocking on the front door.-

MC: And when I took track and basketball and everything, in those days we didn't wear shorts, that was unheard of, and we had bloomers, big bloomers that were pleated all around- you've probably seen pic tures- I can show you myself in 'em, maybe not in here, but I have them, and then like a middy blouse, we used to call it, so Mom used that last piece of material and made me this blouse and it had elas tic here and it bloused over and to make the sleeves long enough she had material from the side, it was wide material, so she just made an extra piece for sleeves, and had what we called a Peter Pan col lar and it laced up the front. Wore that for years, in all my sports. And after I was out of high school then they got to shorts and different things for the girls.

SS: Were there a lot of sports that you would take part in in high school? Basketball, and I think we used a baseball when I was trying to play instead of Softball. We played in the gym. We had to go from the schoolhouse downtown to the gym for all of our activities. And what they have up there today is wonderful, we should have that years and years ago. And in the gym we held my mother and dad's golden anniver sary- in the gym. Over lQ0 people came. But it's just ideal as a complex today, I think there. And then I was in sports. I got my first gold medal, it was in fact the first gold medal for Elk River in Orofino in low hurdles as a freshman. And the next year I got- I won five in track. I just walked away with everything with my long legs. Well, I didn't have any competition because a lot of girls were not interested, they didn't want to do tha*. And some of them couldn't, they can't coordinate in sports. Well, I excelled in sports, these other girls were better scholastically. But I didn't play any games like that when I came down here to college except tennis. And we had two big tennis courts in Elk River and some of

MC: us played tennis, some kids, not all.

SS: So, would you say that there was quite a bit in sports available to women and girls that did want it?

MC: Uh-huh, yes, and they even had women basketball team. And they had-

SS: Did you play on that?

MC: No» because I didn't live there as a woman, We left at '22. They didn't have one when I was teaching up there. No, I didn't.

SS: What about the IWWs? What do you remember about them? All I can remember is these Wobblies, we called them. The jail was across from us and right at the back door of the Morris's home. Of course the Morrises didn't live there then, that was just an old creek bed with a bunch of old roots, the stumps were pulled out and they just dumped them over into that, but it was lots of fun to play all over those things. And they had these men in jail. And one time we were there playing near the back and one of the men yelled out the window at Dennis Krasher, he was a cousin of the kids- the Krashers that live up there now, but he was my age and his sister was too, we were all close in age, and this man yelled and asked for "mitches, mitches." I said, "Dennis, I think he wants matches. Don't get them for him." But what some of the things were they did I don't know, but I know they watched the mill closely. And I sup pose they thought they would try to wreck something and bomb. Whe ther any of them were there as spies or not, I wouldn't know, but they seemed to they didn't speak English, they seemed very ignorant, very sharp. But there were a lot of intelligent foreigners up there. And then as things increased and were better why, the more young people and young couples came in and they built more and more homes. That would have been from '23 on to, well, until the mill closed. They moved lots of those homes out then to

MC: the Moscow and Pullman . They just took the whole house, moved 'em. There were some very nice homes up there at one time, especially thatAblock where the homes sit up on the terraces. Elk River should not be in the condition it is today, there is no excuse for that but plain laziness! ^ There were more Italians in families than there were Greeks. Well, Mr. Baccus, Johnny Baccus's father came Myrfic from Greece. He married widow Bidoon They both died last year. Yes, but he had no family^ he had a wife, trying to think who else. Baccuses and as far as family is concerned, but there used to be a lot of men around there who were Greek. And I don't know, let's see- Pavishes were Serbians or Yugoslavians.

SS: I think they were, yes.

MC: And they had one girl, Annie Pavish.

SS: She still around?

MC: If so, I have no idea where. I'm sure her mother would: be but her father died. He was a bootlegger, too. There was a lot of that up there, lots of it. And e^r Angios were an Italian family, the Bartons used to have a store there but it wasn't- oh, it was in the business lot area, but it faced the school. I can remember Mrs. Barton used to smoke cigars, and if somebody delivered meat to the back door she'd that cigar out before she'd open the door. Her daughters went to school. Irene went with me andlsne' had a little sister.

SS: Do y°u think that they were very much a part of the social life?

MC: They were not. They had their own life. Behind the Barton's place they had a long, long court there- did we tell you that?- they played bocci ball.

SS: No.

MC: And you could hear them all over town, they had a wonderful time. Everybody in Germany or Europe knows all their country songs from the time they are little, wee people until they die. So, they had a quartetbf these male voices, it was wonderful.

SS: Italians?

Oh, Italians. And Mr. Faveril! lived up on the hill and sometimes he'd get going and you could hear him^ well, on the hill where the Catholic church was, you could hear that woice over the town.A And they'd have programs at the time for different things and they usually sang in those- veil, whatever the program was. There were a lot of plays, home talents. And I don't remember who some of the other voices were among the Italians, but they were real good.

SS: Do you remember what Andrew Bloom was like?

MC: I just saw him. Oh, you mean the father?

SS: Yeah, the old man.

MC: Oh, he was a real nice guy, as far as I'm concerned. Very fine; as a boss handling his men, I think he was alright, I can't remember of ever hearing anything against him in any way. I know when we had programs and Fourth of July celebrations he was always asked to speak. And he would walk back and forth and it would be such a long speech and he talked so slowly. He was not a young man when he went there to assume all those duties as the superintendent. He had a very lovely wife and fine trained children, but Andrew's insulason is name Andrew too, and I saw him he's a doctor in Auburn, Washington. I hadn't seen him I guess in thirty vears, but I do correspond with his sister, Alice, and the other two girls live in California, too. So, as x^e were going through with our friends and they were going to stop-

SS: He didn't allow people to stay around town if they weren't going to be productive workers.

MC: That could be.

SS: He was really strong about that.

MC: I don't know, it could be. He had a man under him that was a Mr. Munson, I remember, and I can remember him telling men where there was work and to go, and especially, they had a big fire one time and he came long by the poolhall and asked them to fight fire, and oh, I was just a little kid and I hated to see them to go out to fight fire, but they can't say no. If they're asked to fight, they have to go fight fire.

SS: Were you ever afraid of fire around Elk River?

Well, they got a little excited- there were two different times they got the old shay trains ready with the flatcars to take the women and children out. But my mother never did, she, I don't know, she just had a lot of good common sense and foresight and she never got it was hot excited. Just like when that hotel burned, well, they turned the water on the front of the building but she didn't bother to pull everything out of that front room, not at all, she just had that much confidence that they could control it. And another thing we had every sum *r ur t^ere for nuite a few years, was the town picnic. And you know they had the logging trains and all this railroad tracks all over in the woods, and they had one special place we went to for picnics, I say how many years, they called Munson's Park I think. You would go out of town just a little bit before the railroad track then you turn off somewhere out around Bull Run and go up in to the mountains- well, they had steep mountains there, I don't know how anyone ever found the place, but they would have swings and teetertotters, and a real nice picnic ground out there. Everybody go on the old shay and go home on it, take your own lunch.

You know, a lot of these town activities- how much did the single men participate in them? You know, the sawmill workers and those people, did they mingle freely with the townspeople in these kind of activities, or were they also separate?

For that, they could,Asomething like that because they're included with the whole town, and as far as some of the other social lifexvell, no, I don't think they did when I was younger because there weren't enough women for one thing. In fact, let's see now, how it? Bovill had too-when I was a teenager and able to dance, Bovill had lots of girls and Elk River had a surplus of men, but to compare that with xrtien I younger, and young people, the only young ones I can remember, really, are those that worked out in the woods. There were a lot in the mill, too, but they didn't stay and quite a few married women in Elk River^at that time, well, like the lady that baby sat me up here in the Orchards, and I go to see her quite often, and she married a fellow from Bovill. And oh, Bossy Snider married another young woman that was there, I don't know whether she came in with her parents or not, but Eva did, Eva's father built that tall- that two-story buildingjthat pink one there in town. And they had a bathroom, one of the few bathrooms in town, so she used to take care of Fred and me, and I don't suppose we would even remember it, except she had a bathtub and she put us in the tub and gave us a bath.

So occasionally there'd be- somebody would marry a local girl- who was working in the

Uh-huh. The mill workers. I think there were more from the mill than the woods. There is a Mable Munson, her father x*as- I don't know whether he rated second to Mr. Bloom or not, but Iknow he was aboss, they lived in one of the better homes. Iwas trying to think of some of the women that lived there then- Lena Snider, the telephone operator- I can't remember who she married. I tried to ask Eva some of these questions when I saw her Sunday and she corresponded with Lena, who lived back in New York until about- un til she became ill, that would be about five years ago, I guess, she still corresponded and Lena's name didn't ring a bell to her, but Aanother time maybe it will.

SS: Well, what about the sort of social activities that the adults were getting together? Would that just be a few families or—And Dad used to one after the other. They had dances, be cause we danced above that store I told vou about at one time be fore they ever had the gym. Well, there was a/time, too when quite a few people had horses- horseback riding- there were no cars, early. Were these social activities like pinochle and dancing for the adults were they mostly for the married couples. Mostly, yes, and in their homes. And the women had bridge clubs my when they started playing auction. Mother had seven and eight tables of bridge when she entertained, sometimes. She remodled that house and made a^ L shape living room, dining room. Would the Blooms and the other management people take part in those? Oh, yes, yes. They were all in that.

SS: What about the relation to Potlatch in town? It wasn't a company owned town exactly.

Elk River was not; Potlatch was, and the competition in snorts xvas very keen; baseball and basketball, it was real keen, even for the high school for the boys. I never played basketballbut Idid in Elk River and Bovill and Fernwood and Dearv. We had to travel on the train then. Yep, we didn't have automobiles, stayed overnight. And the Milwaukee went into Elk River then there was a branchline, called the WIM into Bovill, and you could leave on a frei-ht in the morning and change to the WIM to go to Deary and of course Fernwood and Clarkia and Bovill were all on the same line and we d stay with the other players in their homes andAwhen they'd come to our town to play, why, they'd stay with us.

SS: This basketball?

Yes, basketball. I always stayed with Edna Wade, her name is now, she lives here and she stayed with meA Deary. The same thing when we went to track in Orofino. That's how I met this friend that we toured the Peninsula with, freshmen in high school. So you really made friends that way? Made a lot of friends that way. I'm very wealthy with good friends. Really,my correspondence is just too much. From grade school, well, from Elk River and.college days- (break in continuity) in '31, I think-'32, I believe. What's been your understanding about why they shut the mill down? answer Well, better than I. They just felt that the larger mill here x/ould handle everything at the time, ^nd I think some of it was a change of executive officers to younger people, because they have regretted it, and feel that they would have been far ^off to have kept that mill and this one, too. And of course it was a big blow to all those people who were out of work for a couple of years and they had no, social security, jWelfarp or any way of getting help. Many followed the mill here, but a lot of them had to until they were, asked to come down here, too, when there an opening. It was really rough on them; very hard. That was the beginning of depression days and we saw an awful lot of that in Oregon and California. We were lucky, Les worked all through that, but I'm telling vou it was just as bad as it is today with all the theft and the crime and watching every move you made and be sure you lock your car when you are in it and when you got out of it. That's a habit with me, I never ride with my doors unlocked, and you're advised not to do that today, too, What did it do to your father's business? Oh, it affected it greatly, just dropped way down. Tile managed,They made a living for themselves here, but it dropped and of course he had thousands on the books. Dad was too lenient and that's where he and Mom had problems. He didn't have to do that, being the only butcher in town. Did he get into trouble only after the mill xvent dox^n, or was it be fore as well that he had a lot of money on the books?

MC: went on for Years, justtrustlng people always. I can't find the records of it because mymother burned all that stuff.

Well, it's no different than a lot of stores, I mean, I've heard the same story from every small town about that period of time. Well, I'll tell you another thing that did it is the automobile, when they could get out of town and go to the chain stores, but when sy needed credit the^could get it there? to chain store will give you credit. You have to have your name on a book there to even cash a check. And that did a lot of it for the small business men, in any town. Now, alot of people come down here from Orofino, well, the Orofino paper and the Kooskia paper are sent to my husband complimentary because he has done alot of work for them and helped 'em and they appreciate it, and they are just very fond of him and they are young men and they look at him as his age, of course I don't! My religion helps that way, too. But I read the ads in those papers and a lot of things are cheaper than around here.A Yes, but not during the early years when we lost so much money throughbecause of the war and the rationing- He put in groceries, oh, I don't know- before 1930, I guess, ^he started with a few things. Well, the the others put in meats- cold lunch meats and things like that, so restarted doing some of the things and gradually he had full grocery with it. Do you think that during the war, that during the wars that there if would be many people that would shop in his place because was German?

I wouldn't say many in Elk River, no. But there were some, I'm sure, however, at that time they had to because they had no choice. With the Second Uorld War there wasn't that same problem, you know, they didn't throw out all the books- burn up all the books and destroy things that were German in the Second War, like they did the first one.

So, there still a problem war? You mentioned there was- in the second World War there still was some antiGerman feeling. Yes, but I don't think they were affected at all. However, now with me and A^tnedo^ when we could send to our people and we learned they were alive through the Red Cross got word about them, and when we were allowed to we started sending clothing, foods and Dad sent lots and lots of food packages. And he cured bacon and ham himself for them. He had a smokehouse there. And with clothing and with all the kindness there wasn't anybody more helpfu or more kind or generous r donating anything than my folks up there in Elk River. I think I can say that very truthfully. Father and some of the rest. Not one person offered them a thing they could send to the little children or some of Dad's people, and there aren't a lot of them, but with me, my teacher friends just gave me loads of things to send, even a fur coat. All kinds of things and we bought a lot, Les and I, well, money stretched quite a long ways then. And we- out of all that we sent to Dad and my brother only two packages were lost, and twenty pounds was the limit and it was surprising what you could get in that. And we bought shoes; Les bought new shoes for all the little war babies. There were three, four, six, seven, at that tim There were a few more a little bit later. And shoes were . one thing they wanted and we knew how little kids love new shoes. And when I went to school there they always showed you shoes and I usually wore pump sizes And trade you, let's trade shoes." The first graders would say, they loved that. But they remember that to this day when we have gone over there, Uncle Les and the shoes. I had been over there twice and then in ^70 he went with me and then last year then Uncle sent for us. Uncle Les, this and that, and they just sit all over him, climb on him, these little people. Of course, some of them are older now, they're mar ried, but their little kids do, but they tell him that they remember ^he sent them new - their first shoes. Well, the only wav they could really remember is the fact that it had been drilled into them for some of them. But it makes him feel good. And he'd buy these and take them out and scratch them on the walk to make them look used, then they didn't have to pay duty. But I think we sent everybody shoes, besides all clothing. And my sister-in-law worked at Wards and she could get some very good buys for me there. And we'd ask the children what they wanted and if they wanted some thing special in a sweater- they never asked for too much at all.

Just what they needed.

Would this be starting after the war was over? Did they do verv much of that before?

No, it was after the war, yes. Yes. Because there was no way to mail - and then they had that special rate for mailing.

SS: Do you think they did that after the First World War, too? Uh- uh. If they did, I don't remember it. Just don't know, I never thought to ask my dad about that, the First World War. But I know that he used to send packages all his life, all the time he was in business, there was something to send to his mother.

You know, as a kid growing up in Elk River, you didn't get out very much, I imagine and you didn't travel around.

Well, I think we had a little more than some of them because my mother's people were in Denver, her mother and father and she would take us there. We'd go by train. I remember the first time. ,Had to sleep in a berth. Oh J Fred and I screamed and cried. That was 1913- I was five years old, be about 1913-*14. And one of the cars and one of the sleepers we had to sleep in ^Slight was awicker, all woven wicker berths, I remember that. We were terrible babies My mother used to get so angry, she says, "Walk across the street to the store and if you didn't find me in the house, you'd start screaming and crying around and running after us." Well, you know, we had a fear of Dad, too. And one time she was in the store to look at material and I came along aid plopped my hand on it and she had to buy it, I got it all dirty.

Les Clark: Unofficially I was hiding out from the immigration. I had worked for the Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Washington as a printer but they had told me that after Christmas there wouldn't be too much work available, so I'd better shift for myself. So, Isaw this ad in the union office that wanted a printer who could tell the differ ence betv/een poster type and calling card type, so I answered it. And I rode all the way to Elk River only to find out that Marineau didn't want a kid, he wanted a printer, and I looked over his shop at his invitation and I said, "I can run everything but that thing sitting there, and it was a Simplex typesetting machine, something that's unusual today. The linotype company gave him $400 x^hen he bought the new linotype and he really bought the linotype because I knew how to run one and he didn't. But he knew how to run this Sim plex very well and he got very much work out of it and a lot of pro ficiency considering the type of machine it was. And after the linotype company paid him $400 for it he^took a hammer and broke it all up and just left it there. And really, today it would be a museum piece, it would be wonderful to have one. I understand there is one around Deary someplace in a barn.

SS: This Simplex machine? A Simplex. And where, I don't know, but the one that was in Kendrick was sold to some farmer in the Deary area, and where it is, I don't know. Well, when you came out here, out to Elk River, what did you think of it? Were you real happy about going to work there at first? Well, yes, I+was actually my second or third job that I had that I felt competent that I could hold. At the time the man who left him wanted to come back. And when the immigration authorities come down there to pick me uP) Marineau guarenteed- he told the immigration man, "That man will never become a public charge. He can stay with me as long as he wishes." And with that the man went back to Spokane and reported in that I had a job; I could support myself. But, kind of an unusual story.

SS: What's the deal now that you had immigration problems? You were from Canada, but what were they looking for?

LC: This is kind of a confession- but what happened was that I came across the line and tried to pass immigration and because I was nineteen, I only had $50, or approximately $50 in my pocket and x^inter coming on they thought that I x^ould come down here and become a public charge. I was nineteen years of age and I told 'em I was a printer. And out of the three immigration officials, one of 'em just decided definitely that I couldn't be a printer and there was no way to prove it. But it so happened, as I proved myself, I was, I had been printing ever since 1919 and I've never hardly been out of work, only between jobs

SS: So, did that mean that they let you through but not as a-

LC: No they didn't let me through, they wanted to pay my way home and I said, "Well, that's deportation, I won't take it." So I paid my way home, back to Canada again. Then I met a very good friend of mine, an acquaintance, we've been friendly all these years, and he told me he was going to Spokane. So I told him I would like to go to Spokane on a trip to see my brother who was there, and he said, "Well, vou can ride along with me, it's alright with me." So I went doxro to Spokane. And went dox™ to the union office and there was a -job in the country at Colfax. Well, the man was an ardent Catholic and they were burning Ku Klux Klan trees, or crosses, all over the place, which wasn't too good because the man I worked for was really em blematic of what they were burning the crosses for.

SS: Because he was Catholic?

LC: He was a Catholic.

SS: You went into Colfax to take that iob?

LC: Yes.

SS: Were you working there for long?

LC: I worked there for a week and then two guys come there and beside me and I didn't know who they were and thev told me, "You see these crosses burning?" and I said, "Yes." And they said, "Well, that's for your boss." So I, in the meantime just told 'em, "Let me finish up the week and I'll get out of here." And a couple of days before that I sat on the Colfax platform wishing to go Portland because I had been a hockey player in Canada and played in the cham pionship of British Columbia, and the last vear I was there, that year, you might say, and I thought I'd like to go to Portland and try out with the Rosebuds down there. I didn't think I'd ever make it but I thought maybe I could get on some farm team that they knew about, because I didn't have a job, and there was only one place to xwrk in the printing shop in Trail outside of working in the smelter. And so, anyway, I ended up by working for Marineau in Elk River. I did go back and report to the immigration authorities and x^ent thrash a thorough examination by them. I don't think they missed anything, but, however, there was a man by the name of Hampton who was the chief man and he told me, he says, "You got eight dollars in your pocket?" And I says, "Yes, I got a lot more than that." He said, "Well, take the eight dollars, that's enough, go down and get a money order to pay your head tax." And then when he got through all that and ac cepted the money- or the money order- he said, "Now, young man, you're a pretty lucky boy, you could have spent some time in the penitentiary and you could have spent some time a lot of places, and you could have been sent home. But," he said, "I advise you when you get back on your job, you go to the county seat the first available time you get and take your citizenship papers out." (Chuckles) And that was the end of that. I've never had any more trouble with them. You know, that was all cleared up then that one time.

SS: Well, when did you learn how to do printing in the first place?

LC: I learned my trade- I spent about four years between high school and time after high school- I spent four years and two months in Trail learning the printing trade. I was taught by a very good printer; a man also by my name, but no relative at all, he was an Englishman. And he x*as a good printer, I wish today that I had collected all of his ability. And I worked in Trail that time and things became un satisfactory there and that's my move to the United States. I did, however, try to get other jobs around there, but none were available.

SS: when unsatisfactory, was that like xvrages weren't good enough?

LC: Well, I was getting the handsome price of $22.50 for forty-eight hours work! And now, that's a long time ago, and I x^ent to work for Marineau and Igot $32.50 aweek forjlike hours. So it was just like getting a good raise in pay; $10 was quite a lot of money in those days. And from there on I went- I worked for Marineau for about five and a half years I think. I also ran and edited his paper while he was in Idaho's Legislature. He spent two sessions down there and each time I produced his paper.

MC: He even twenty-five years old.

LC: And T?ot by with it. I got by, that's about all I can say!(Chuckles) Well, one more thing about this learning the trade in Trail; how did the guy teach you? How did you learn the printing trade in those days? Handsetting type.

LC: Well,-

SS: Did he show you how and then expect you to know how to do it? LC: In Trail?

SS: Yeah.

LC: Oh, no, I xrorked, I worked, I learned how to feed press and I learned how to set type. The first two years under that Englishman, I'm tel ling you something, I think I learned it by the mallet. I think he pounded it into me! But he was good to me. You could work with tears in your eyes all day, at the end of the day he'd say, "Good work, to day, kid! Good work today!" Well, he was a character, but, oh, what a printer. And then I learned more from- an apprentice had gone there to learned his trade there, then he had gone to Spokane and he had worked over in Tacoma then he come back to Trail and bought an interest in this- a man by the name of Hall that ox^ned the controlling interest. And that- when I say satisfactory- along with thing- I left the shop, this Bowley left, too, he dissolved partnership. It took him a little time to get everything settled, but he quit the same time I did.

SS: What was the method- like you say you'd be working with tears in vour eyes; the method of teaching sounds maybe a little bit harsh.

LC: That Englishman was that x*ay. Very stern. Not that he was actually unkind or anything, but he just was to the point. He just pushed me into learning. I think I learned the wav he learned. The old method in England was so much like that type of apprenticeship, and I think he pounded it into me. And he used to tell me, "Do it right, set it fast, work hard!" That's about all I did. And I fed that old press up there, in fact, I fed all their presses. The paper come along, I had to set ads and I never got a chance to learn the linotype while he was around, L'ove.ver, one time the partner^was sick, went to the hot springs up there, I don't know what hot springs it was, but he had rheumatism so bad he couldn't work; so Old Joe Clark took to running

MC: the linotype and he changed some things and he just couldn't get the slugs to come out of the linotype machine and every time thev come around to the ejection part of the machine, it would stall. So I was feeding press and he went out to lunch and I knew x^hat was wrong so I went down and changed it and didn't say anything and he came back and he tried running again and sure enough, the slug come out like it should, he just had it on the wrong size. He looked at it, then he stands up and he said, "Kid, come over here! What did you do with this machine?" And I told him I had change^ ^hat ^rom 8 point to 10 point, see, "ou get that 10 point slug out. He says, "Haven't I told you never to touch this machine?" (Chuckles) See, that's what I mean by tears in your eyes! I think I have a picture of that shop. It's here, you see. No, no, this is Elk River.

LC: No, I got one in Trail.

MC: Did anybody tell you about those long trains? No, vrtiat are they? Were they pack trains? That's what he did was Oh, yes. I'm surprised Courier didn't tell you. pack those, didn't he Les?

LC: Those were regular packhorses-

MC: They're mules.

SS: He was packer for the- Elk River for the patrol. I visited very briefly with him. No, he didn't do the packing, but he- well, maybe he did. I think he did some, because he worked up there too. And here, this is the store I was telling you about, it was across from the folksfrom Dad And that was a dance hall up there. And this was a store in Elk River, too, and on the other side was ahotel that burned down.and that was a wonderful sight.

SS: Pack train ? that's what I was trying to think about a while ago. There s the old " house down there, see? And this area had been burnt over,A cabin, they called it the Bean Cabin, Beans lived up there. Did you hike to ga up tc Elk Butte? I never- Go up there? I've been there once, but only hiked up the last part. I never had the time, I've been half way several times— noisy

SS: Did the kids go to Elk River Falls?

MC: All the time. down there in the summer, a lot. There were two very good swimming pools there. Oh, yes, that was another good pic nic and outing place. Of course, we could walk it; four miles until we had cars to go m. That's the house there, I showed you.

SS: that did you think of Elk River, the town, as somebody new there coming in?

LC: Well to me it was a lark. Iwas used to a town of about 7,500 pop ulation. And gosh, it was a surprise to me that everybody knew everybody around there. And going into the pool halls kick because those guys'd work down in the sawmill or the office of the mill or something like that and then they'd really take it out on each other, either before work or after work. They were always ki bitzing.

SS: Kibitzing? Giving each other a hard time?

LC: 0h» yeah they'd ride a guy to death. They really worked on it. But it was interesting to me, and still I was told by the union secre tary- LES CLARK: He was secretary of the typographical union.

SS: Why should^ stay in a town like that?

LC: Well, he figured it was too small for me, your printing experience comes better with metropolitan experience, much better. Well, you just learn more efficiency, when you hit the big time, why, you are pushing a little bit harder and then you know how. Experience of course, a lot of times I've relied back on the very fundamentals I'd learned in country shops. It was good that way. Did you have much time to spend with the local guys, I mean, was your job free enough that you had time to kill, go to poolhalls? Oh, no, not during working hours, not during working hours, no I worked from eight to five every day.

MC: You played basketball.

LC: I Pla-yed basketball and I learned how to play basketball there and I played baseball. I went skating one day when they had some ice around there, and gosh, it was funny, I was down therev you know and having skated well in my life, put on a pair of old skates and started going around that millpond around there and people come down in droves as far as the community was concerned to see what was going on, and I think Marie will vouch for you, I could skate!

SS: She mentioned that before and I believe it.

MC: Well so I got ahead of myself, I guess.

LC: But it,s been a £ood life for me, I can't complain, maybe Iwould have done better if I had stayed in Canada and played hockey. Do you feel that you were coming down here because of the opportunities

were better;for work? No,k Ididn't have a job in Trail. ihad to make a living.

SS: That's what I mean.

MC: That answers the question. You came because you had to support your self.

SS: Did you think you were going to want to stay down here after you'd been here for a while?

LC: Well, there was one circumstance about it, I had to stay for a vear, because Marineau guaranteed me a job for a vear, so I had to stay that otherwise the immigration could a take me and sent me home. And I didn t have a job in Trail, they were very anxious to have me come back and play hockey, as I understand the story, but I never went back; never to play hockey. Five years later, five and a half years later - I played a couple of games in Spokane one win ter and I got a letter from Bobby Row, the Portland Rosebuds- Buckaroos, rather, wanting me to come for a tryout, and that was just about the time the Depression started. So, that ended having a big crew, however, he did mention the fact he did want me to go up to his farming team in Canada and try out with them, go play hockey up there, and I asked where it xvas and he said it was Rosslyn, B.C. and it was seven miles from Trail, and that would be professional suicide, or hockey suicide, to go play against your home town, so I wouldn't go there. Had he wanted me to go up maybe to Salmon Arm district or maybe over on the prairie or something like that, it might have been different, but to go to Rosslyn and play against Trail, wouldn't have been too healthy.

SS: What about the championship team that you played on? Do you remember that?

LC: rt was 1ust a team. We were defeated by a team by Enderby, B. C. for the championship. We lost out in two games. Let's see, we had to play two games and account a those. And the first game ended m- five to four and the second game they won two to one. And we literally played in , because the season was just about over. played on natural ice.

SS: When you were in Elk River did you get much riding because vou were a Canadian? Did they rib you about it?

LC: I used to get a little bit once in a while; get talking out a turn or something like that. And of course, a lot of 'em kind a made fun of me because I talked so funny. I guess some of my expres sions were different from the Scandinavians up there, for sure! (Chuckles) But, it was interesting, I can't complain.

SS: You know, one thing I'd like to ask you about is- now this is jum ping ahead a little bit- it was after you left- because you left in '30, but what did you understand about Marineaus moving to Moscow and working with Robinson?

LC: Well, I think it was a very good opportunity for Marineau. He was just about at the end of the road in Elk River, as far as running a paper was concerned. And I think his movement there was good. Nox*, who's idea it was to start a newspaper, I don't knox^. But Marineau was a good job man and a good publisher for the size of the town he was from, but to enter into Moscox*, which was a much bigger field, it was a challenge for him. Hox^ever, the doctor had money and they hired the editor, Boas, from the other paper, so there wasn't too much-

SS: Eventually.

LC: Yeah, there wasn't too much- Because I read the way Robinson told the story, that Marineau came to Moscow one day and dropped in to see him and said, "I'd be in terested in doing some of your printing." And that he quoted him a price which would have been about half what the Star-Mirror

Charging, and so he decided to go for it. Well, I'll tell you something about Marineau; if he'd a depended on the printing he got in Elk River he couldn't even made a living. We were so^usy printing job work for the Potlatch Lumber Company, for other people, for other towns and the different areas around there that we just busy all the time.

SS: Really?

Uh-huh. Marineau would leave the shop and go out maybe for three or four days and come back-with a hat full of work and, boy, we would really work. He did work for the Potlatch, the WIM Railroad and Bovill, Clarkia, Fernwood. Those lu%ier companies in Fernx^ood would even send him job work. He was aggressive about geting work? Yes, he was on the ball, I would say. And do it, too, because he had a dependable printer to get it out. He could afford to be out but you leave your shop to do those things, you lose time. Did that- do you think that made a lot better living for the paperfor the shop than the newspaper did? Oh, the newspaper was only a two day workup. Now, Marineau would write the paper and the first day I would set it on these new lino type he got and then on the following day Iwould make up the papers, set the ads and everything and Marineau would write up a few more things and he in turn would learn how to run the linotype, too. So, Ixvould make up the paper and he would make it up along with it, whatever he wished, and also make the corrections on the galley proofs and we worked together all the way through. And, one thing I'll say about Marineau, that when he started that paper on aWednesday morning before we went home Thursday night, that thing was all printed, folded and sometimes mailed. And that paper was usually always in the mail Friday morning before nine o'clock, and that was the day of publication. And he never failed. The only time he ever failed was when the press broke down one time. He made some innovations up there for the sinking of the floor and the results was that one of the contraptions he made nut flew off the bolt and flew into jhthe gear and wrecked the press. (Chuckles) We had our troubles up there. I've heard it said- you know, I've read that the real small town Western newspapers often- would barely get the editor by, I mean he had a-

MC: Hand-to-mouth?

Yes, was not a way to make money, really. You know, most of the men that were doing those small papers. Now, would you sav from your experience that that's the truth? I would say this, Marineau paid for his shop. He bought a home. But he didn't pay it from the newspaper alone. No, it was the job x*ork that paid it, but, I think the newspaper paid him. We only spent on the average of two days on it, and I got the handsome price of about $6 a day or so, and that was pretty good money, however, in those days.

SS: Do you think the job work x*as what would make the difference?

LC: 0h definitely. And Marineau, by the way, had good job printing equip ment. Good job printing equipment for a country shop. In fact, if he hadn't had such a good shop I think Iwould have been long gone! But he had a good shop.

SS: How would he come by that? That was before-

LC: 1 understand that a man by the name of Durslin ran the paper in Elk River and put the shop in there and SS up on it, then he left Elk River; closed the publication, left Elk River and went up around Mullan and started another shop in the mining area and Marineau come along with a man by the name of Tony Honer and they bought it together, but Tony Honer only stayed there a short while and Marineau stayed on and he hired printers all the time and he paid them going wages. But I think Marineau's progress increased after he bought the linotype. What did the lin©type mean in the way of progress? What did that make it possible for him to do?

LC: Well, he spent a lot of time on that Simplex typesetting machine. That was-

MC: Speed, for one thing.

LC: Speed, was the thing, whereas the Simplex- well, I couldn't tell you how much you could get out. In getting out the type on the linotype you could get about a galley and a quarter galley half an hour. And we only had about, oh, maybe ten or twelve galleys of type to set. So that only lasted for one day, whereas the other way, well, he was always on that Simplex and half the time it would run and you know, all the Simpelx letters, all had the combination on the back of the- it was all moveable type, and it all had these combinations and you put that on the top and it'd go around and^finally find its combination and drop in there, and I don't know how many channels there were in that thing. It was a different kind of a keyboard.

SS: I wonder why he got the Simplex instead of the linotype in the first place?

LC: Well, it was there.

SS: Oh, that's right, he bought the olcl-

LC: He bought the old equipment.

MC: He had some money, but-

SS: It really is.

LC: They had a man there by the name of Sibbetts, he was a Spanish-Amer ican War veteran and a band leader, and he was there, but he had died before I got to town, and he led the band. Marineau was also a good musician, he played his way through the navy all during World War I, and Marineau took it over, but Sibbetts was a bandmaster, no doubt about it, and they were learning from him where Bill could maybe play his saxophone and clarinet, and was a little handicapped. MC Sibbitts taught

LC: Well, he was an outright musician.

LC: never had an opportunity to meet him because he was gone before I got there. But all the boys around like Bill Vadley and Norma* Vadley and all those fellows, they just thought the world of him, and he knew his music and he had several good musicians there and then they had this guy Sam Grandy here who learned how to play the clarinet in Italy, I guess, and of course, that's just like a licorice stick to those guys, they just keep blowing! His wife lives here, Mrs. Grandy lives here. In was the shoemaker in Elk River. He sold shoes and repaired them. Maybe she'd be a good person for me to talk to.—(-pav^ There were characters in their own right, and then we had some Pavichwhat was his name? What was his-

SS: A Serbian. A Serbian, and he x^as a hotel man and a bootlegger, you might say,

He do music ?

And he could make a little bit at doing that? He did He probably had that pension besides.

MC: he was accused of it anyway. And they had their clan together that x^ay and they pretty much ran xrith their own group all the time. He had the poolhall in the hotel

SS: Who? Pavich or?

MC: Paviches. ? bought it, afterx^ards, a few years later, but I don't think they had it too long. Several people managed it, they didn't^ovm it- people by the name of Ranvill had it, because I was a friend of their daughter, Lillian, and they were going to have their picture taken and they took me with them to the Japanese photographcr downstairs, and they took my picture too, andihny mother was so mad, she says, "Well, why didn't you tell me? I would have fixed your hairt Is that that picture of you that's in here? That your picture? Yeah, that wasn't supposed to be up here, I guess it was on thethat was me. I believe I was teaching school.

SS: Oh, from Moscow.

MC: Twenty years old. That's a nice picture. Uias *fta+ tfpi-r corl 4-fje. fashion ? Well, not especially, it king! of marked me, I guess, so many people tell me about it. You didn't tell him when the first time you saw me, you thought I was the homliest looking

SS: Is that the truth?

LC: That's what she told the rest of the girls! (Chuckles)

SS: Well, it must have been a sign that she was affected by you. No, I don't think it was that at all. I had trained all summer to get in shape for playing ice hockey and I was really in wonderful condition, but my plans got changed and I come down\here skinny- I think I had about-

MC: You were only nineteen. What does a boy have at nineteen?

LC: Well, I was big enough to hold my own with men up there. But, I think I had a thirty-six inch chest and a thirty-one inch waist, and I fattened up after I got to eating regular! (Chuckles) up here.

MC: What about your beer?

LC: No, didn't have much beer up there.

No, but you made up for it in California. Did you go out for- do it alone, when you decided to get married?

LC: Oh, that's another story. five years. I was a senior I guess when really started dating more steadily and then I to school and then I taught two years. Did you know that you wanted to teach for a long time? Oh, yes, what else was there for a girl in those days? A nurse, a steno^or a teacher, that's all the choice she had. And I certainly didn't want to be a slave to a typex^riter.

LC: And she certainly didn't want to get married in Elk River.

MC: I got married in Elk River.

LC: I mean to say, you didn't want to stay if you got married.

SS: You decided you didn't want to stay there?

MC: K the only guy that x^asn't doing null work,

LC: I was the only guy that didn't work in the sawmill. (Chuckles) Why was it that * wanted to go someplace different7 A big city? I don't know, not especially. My mother used to say, "Don't worry about x*hat people say, you're not going to be in this tovm all your life. She encouraged me. And my folks wanted me to go to school. very definitely. And I just figured, well, I'd do what they say tthhaat's what they expected of me and I did it. And Les comes along and he's a lot better than guys who'd

No, you don't need to go to school." He was very much in favor of my finishing- teaching in California and I had to go to school to get my degree. A lot of women probably didn't do any of those things right, quite a few women had a feeling didn't want a career at all. Well, yes, we^hear too much about it, frankly, there in Elk River. And Iwas the first girl to go on to school from Elk River, the rest married, well, some moved away, too. I don't know if any one of them ever went to school either. We were the fourth class and there were only two boys in the first and there were four in the second and two girls and three boys in the third one, I think, and the girl that graduated with me went on to nursing but not right away. I thought she did, but she tells me, no, she didn't and she didn't become an RN. However, she and awoman started rest home* small one* like they used to have, more like homes. And from then on, after I graduated: Joy, would be the one from John's class- Fred's class- oh, and Naomi- two girls followed right here at normal school.

LC: They both were teachers, too.

MC: Yes» they became teachers, and one of those has passed away since. And from then on I don't remember, but I know every year somebody hasA on to college from Elk River High School. We've never had a class over sixteen graduate, I don't believe. And Elk River became accredited in 1924.

LC: Are working for the Moscow newspaper? For the county historical society. Ididn't x*ork for the paper, that was the other guy that was- Iwork for the historical society. Five years, was that an unusually long courtship for those days? Idon't know. Idon't think so, course Ihad to look at Elk River, because every young woman that came to Elk River to become the secre tary for the company found herself a man pretty fast. That right?

LC: Yeah.

MC: Every one of them married that I can remember right now.

LC: All those that stayed any length of time.

MC: Tney didn't court so long and not many of the school teachers that came there married.

LC: School teachers- Quite a few, but there's an awful lot, and I think way back, they didn't. One time some young fellow and an older man came to Elk River to re pair the turbines that were making the electricity for Elk River, they had become used up and needed repair, and by gosh, this one guy he come to townAand he did a courtship in a fast way, I think he came there in September or October and the first of the year they were through so he took the first grade teacher with him. I don't know whatever become of 'em. That was Rau; I forget her name.

My gosh, I don't remember that. They got married right away and took off. But he was a very good mechanic and he was under this older man who x^as evidently an expert and had come from Philadelphia to work in Elk River to repair thatwell, you weren't there then? You stayed in Elk River the whole time that you were in school and teaching school? You were still working in Elk River?

MC: Yeah. Planning to marry eventually? Had my ring the year after I was down here, I guess. Well, the last year, the last year- well, she taught for two years there- I took off in November to go to the Coast.

In 1929. Yeah. You were teaching here? You were teaching in Elk River? Um-huh. and come back and got and played amateur hockey, sort of.league they Players,good players. the business men for the interest of the hockey players that staved in , you know. Where was this? In Portland. In Portland? Yeah. We played every Sunday nlght. And ,played there this job, of course, the depression was right on then, you couldn't even get for tie game and they hadn't heen winning, Idon't think, at all, and the next night we played the Multn0mah " and we beat them no thing, and that was after ihad had acouple of worsts with these boys, and the next day Iwas leaving town and the Coodsell couldn't see that at all and xended up hy working in the garage all winter. And I„orked there all thg time) You said "the Goodsell"? what's that? Goodsell Ford. Oh, Isee. They were the team you were playing for? Yeah. lie sponsored. 1st

LC: And the day- we finished up on Sunday night and the next day I got a job out in Oregon City in the printshop. But you had worked in a shop in Portland, jobshop, because you printed our announcements. Oh, yes, I worked as a linotype operator in a small place there, but he didn't have too much work, he just had this one book to get out. What made you decide to leave Elk River at that time?

LC: Well» l always had a feeling, just like I told- who was that outfit that come in there and bought out Ashley's store?

MC: felky Morgan.

LC: Morgan. They came to the shop and they wanted to know whether Elk River x*as a good place to live, and I had to tell 'em, naturally, that it was a good place to live and everything, and then they got to talkin' more or less confidential to me, and I said, "You see that sawmill down there?" And they says, "Yes." I said, "Well that's like horse, it drops dead there's going to be nothing here." And they kind of thought I was a little bit harsh about it, but that's actually what happened. They bought the store and they stayed and they left, too. And they closed up the store. But, I had lived so many places in Canada in the mining country up there like WvmAr and Fruitville and all the rest of 'em around there heard of the different communities. And a one-industry town is no place to stay, not for me. I'm surprised now Ieven stayed in Elk River because of the fact, if I had really thought back- I never had any ties of property or anvthing, all I did was buy automobiles, I had a new one about every time I could turn around.' (Chuckles)

MC: You're not telling the right story.

LC: What do you mean?

MC: You always said you wore out five automobiles.

SS: Oh, yeah? It took that many?

LC: It did. The last one landed her though.' (Laughter) But I've seen those mining camps, logging camps one after the other just become nothing overnight.

SS: Did you suspect that that might happen in Elk River? Did it look shakey to you?

LC: No» it looked good. It looked good and Marineau alwavs used to empha size the fact there was enough timber up there for eighty vears, in Elk River. In fact, before the Potlatch Lumber Company x^as formed, the Potlatch was up there but I mean the main company now, was called the Potlatch Lumber Company. At one time they were going to come to Elk River and bring all that timber that come down here, they were going to bring it into Elk River. And I think they would have been ahead of the game had they done that and built another complex up here around Wieppe.

LC: —and learned about it, and learned that Elk River might be increa sing. He was just really moving around town to find out where he could buy a lot so he could build a shop. Marineau was a cautious man, he didn't want competition and he wanted to be there first, you rni-ht say, with the most so nobody would come in. And he was all excited about it. In fact, in Elk River they had gone up the hill one place and graded more on the street in hopes that they would have locations to build more homes there should such a thing come in. But, for some reason or other it was all decided to come down here.

SS: That was prior to the decision to put that mill in here at Lewiston?

LC: Oh, yes.

SS: Probably when they were trying to decide where - what to do, that idea came out. I think the idea must have grox*n. Of course, in Elk River they had an awful lot of snow to move, and that was, I think, part of that-

SS: The drawback?

LC: The draxvback. And another drawback, Ithink, I've heard this story, that they had to sign another agreement with the Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Railway. You see, the twenty years had practically run out with the contract with the Potlatch- with the Milwaukee Railroad and they had to make a new agreement. Twenty years contract for what? For hauling? For hauling all the manufactured lumber. All the lumber had to go out of Elk River on that twenty miles of road to Bovill; everything. And Elk River was shipping a lot back East and those freight cars were loaded. They used to take anywhere from eight to twelve cars out of there every day; and it was good lumber, it was well graded lumber. They had a good white pine stand. MC; They had a bunch of good graders up-rhere 4©o.

SS: So h°w did this affect their decision?

LC: Well, Ithink that the Milwaukee wanted to negotiate anew contract and new freight rates or anew hauling deal or something like that, and I don't think, I'm not sure, but Idon't think the Potlatch was going to go for it, because maybe they were upping their rates. Things had changed, you know as far as rates were concerned and whatever hap pened, the decision was made by the Weyerhaeuser interests. And, I think that they- well, they used to go out to around Breakfast Creek and stay out there and camp out there in the summer and Ithink they got the idea of.the logs down and everything would come from that

SS: Yeah, the Clearwater.

LC: Yeah.

SS: Well mentioned when we were talking before that it was the younger generation you thought that was—

LC: Well, the younger Weyerhaeusers- Didn't you say that, that it was the younger ones that were mill The executives^ you know, kind of pushed that. Yes, isn't that one of the stories, too?

LC: Yeah.

MC: They had different views on this and they were all college men, graduates. Wellthe things happen- to day. Youths, the sons . tak over and they make a vice president's position for him in the company, it happens all the time, I guess about every year around here. Well, you got out just before it happened, didn't you? Well, what I did; I walked right into the stock crash in Portland. That's actually what I did. When that stock crash came about there it just laid off help right and left.

MC: Ithink Les being out there *1ike that had ataste of it and he was a little reluctant to get married.

SS: It hit hard in Portland, right away.

LC: Oh, yeah, oh, the papers really- you know Iwas aprinter and the papers and the jobshops and everything just, oh, they just laid off men all the time. Imet: aregular on the newspaper and he learned Iwas aprin ter and he said, "Boy, I'm sure sorry for the subs on the board." Because they just didn't hire 'em at all. They just cut down the paper the advertising cut down and Iknow Goodsell, he wanted to get me ajob in a printshop and he'd call up a guy and sayVl'll never order another order another sheet of paper from you unless you hire this guy.'" Oh, he was kind of a character himself. But Portland was hard hit with the stock crash.

Did you stay and manage to make a living in Portland? Well, as I said, I played hockey for Goodsell all winter and he hired me in his garage to keep me there. I don't know where I would have gone to look for ajob. But when we beat Multnomah Club that night I was leaving town the next day, Ihad to get some kind of a iob.

SS: Did you get married long after that? Got married in May. The stock crash was sometime in October or Novem ber and Iplayed all winter and then Icome back in May and married her and Iwas on ajob, but it was somebody's job- he was going to Oregon State, it was his job for the summer, so Iwas kind a out.

MC: By Ieneded up in Springfield after we were married. Iworked in Springfield for aman by the name of Maxey that ox,ned the Springfield paper, I've forgotten the name of it. But anyway I also would work occasionally for the Eugene Register, and it went There were two papers in Eugene and they combined, and that let some of them out and Les out, too. t,e -d asteady job with the Register. Yeah. So, Idecided to go to linotype school with the little money I had left. So I went down to- Bill Marineau sponsored him and arranged for him to go to this school. Well, through Bill and getting a machine there and also one of the was pretty handy, linotype representatives,Aman by the name of Bowman ,was it? Bowman, something like that. Anyway, Iwent to school down there and studied linotype and^from there I went on working. Were you aware of what was going on in Moscow when they had the bat tle between the two newspapers? Between the News-Review and the Star Mirror ? Do you know about that? No, Iwas down in California at that time, and there was abattle and that Istill think if the Old Man owned the Star-Mirrow, hadn't met with that accident, Istill think that he would have put up agood fight. But you see, he was killed with a gunshot in an automobile and they hunting or something and he met with this accident and that just disturbed everything. He was trying to get Robinson pretty bad, though prior to his death. I guess he was the one that initiated the proceedings to try to have him deported, Robinson.

MC: What had lobinson done

SS: Well, he -

MC: Had he changed his name or something?

LC: Robinson's religion was- I've never read his book or any of his in formation at all. I know he used to advertise as "The man who talked with God." Now that's kind of a hypothetical way to attract atten tion anyway, because, could he prove it?

SS: Well, what do you think Mr. Marineau thought of it? Do you think that he thought he was sincere?

LC: Well, Marineau was a very sincere , but Bill said there was a lot of printing, but he sells it, that's what he told me. He says he sells this stuff all over; gets big money for it from some people.

I mean, do you think that he thought that Robinson really believed it, that Robinson believed in the way he was saying? Well, I wouldn't know how to answer that because Bill says, "Well, he sells :his printing, people read it, and he sends it all over the , and some people make large contributions to him." That's what a number of people have said to me, that they didn't think that Robinson was really sincere, that he himself, believed what he was saying. Which I find a little hard to believe myself, because he was writing all that stuff all the time and I xv-ould think he must have believed it.

LC: I don't see how he had the time, you know, he worked as a druggist or a pharmacist, and I don't know where he got the time to write all this stuff.

SS: Once he got going, I think he xv-as devoting himself full time to it. By the- late '30»s or early '40's, I think he was pretty much doing that all the time. But it x^asn't just writing, he was traveling all around and speaking

LC: He must have bad somebody working for him, too, because- Oh, he had a big staff; they were mostly women sending out those mailings. He must have employed at least thirty people in Moscow. One of the biggest employers in the town. (?O.U5C) The way they were set up they couldn't touch the legals, and they needed the legal rating.60 They went over to Troy and purchased the News and that's how it was called the News Review, because the legal aspect came in there and they'd had to print for seventy-eight x^eeks under the Idaho code to he eligible for a legal rating, but by purchasing the title to the News 1n Troy, which was already a legal paper, they themselves gained a legal rating and could print legals now, and I don't know, there might have been a little contro versy betx^een Lamphere and the courthouse and the other politicians and attorneys and I think that's how their success came about. Now, if they hadn't bought that Trc»y News they'd have suffered for seventyeight weeks without a legal, and that's what stops a lot of papers today from getting started in Idaho, is the seventy-eight weeks.

MC: California.. LC: One year. And Washington is six months but Idon't know how it goes in other states but those three states Iam acquainted with the laws. Iknow when Iowned my paper down in Nevada City Ihad alittle legal entanglement. TV.

a legal rating, and I had a legal rating and a judgement from the court^was adjudged a legal paper, but for some reason or other, the opposition was able to stir up a little propaganda that I ae rating. tually didn't have a legal I beat 'em four times down there and four times they had an election and they were beaten each time. Then they were coming up for the fifth, but a fellow come in and wanted to buy the paper- right now! And he had the money, hut he wanted to take it right now, and I said, "Oh, no, no." I had to go up to court- or up to the attorney, and I said, "I've got to run a notice in the paper that I'm disposing of the business - a notice to creditors and so forth." That Iwas selling out, they have a law like that in California, and it takes ten days for that to go through. Then he wanted the editorial policy, anyway, so ly "Oh, hell, I'll throw that in.'" So anyway Isold out. It was a controversial area. Iwas aflatlander and the hillbillies kind of didn't like it, and everybody in town was relatedl^way. In Nevada City? tC: In Grass Valley and Nevada City.

All that gold country is like that. It's growing out of it now cause the younger people that are the older generation But you were opposited to the consolidation because it would have robbed the community? Itold 'enTit would, Itold 'em, "You'll lose your businesses." I says, "The kids'11 go over to Grass Valley and the store over there will show some new shoes or some new sport clothes or something and everybody'11 be rushing over there to buy them. All the kids'11 be exposed to them." The school was to be In Grass Valley, and that would hurt the downtown, see. And that's exactly what happened.

SS: Sure.

LC: They believed me after it happened. But I still don't know whether I sold that business to the man that bought it or to the high school.

SS: Do y°u mean it's more difficult than say around here, for people to make the right decisions? You know what I mean? I'm thinking- you know we had some consolidation problems around here too, you know thinking about whether schools should go together or not. Well, they have the same thing up in Troy and Deary. They fight that out every weekend, And it will kill„ if they nake a Union High School, it's going to kill one town. Bovill's already killed. Yeah, Bovill's dead now. And if Elk River is swallowed up by Oro fino, there just x^on't be anything in Elk River. I don't think that Elk River will allow it, I think they'll fight as they said up there, they'll fight it. Like my attorney tells me now, he says, "People will just come in you if they understand and like you.—" The last time I saw him. People are just commencing to like you and understand xvrhat you meant x^hen you were fighting this school, but I couldn't convince 'em in four times that we had beaten the law. But the funny thing about it is in all these high school contests for an election, they can call one every six months., and they can go til they win. and then there's no recourse, you can't go back, and that's the hell of that law. It's just wrong. Nevada City was four miles from Grass Valley^and they x*ere sure worried about us. Les wasn't worried, he*would have gone up there into that competition if he had been. If I'd known the higgh sscchno°ooli twtaos„ al^readjy voted to go together, I wouldn't ever of bought in Nevada City. But I didn't know it. But low and behold, three weeks after I got there I found out a lot of things. But, they could never get the funds to build, and that's the very thing that Istopped there for four years, or practically four years. And, oh, I'll tell you something, every week was different. (Chuckles) I liked the climate to live in there, but I sure didn't like a lot of the people. The people I was in contact with school were wonderful, I couldn't ask for any better. I got wonderful breaks all through my teaching. But, businesswise, was quite a different story. Well, I think the high school was intimidating everybody that adver tised with me. I think that was one of their policies, that if they took an ad with me they would get intimidated by the Nevada Union High School system. And it hurt, really a lot of it hurt. I could have 3-ne along with the thing but Icouldn't see going in debt in the county for thirty years, which they've done now, and they don't know where they're coming out. Of course they've had alot of people come up there, but taxes have gone out of sight. Big turnover in population. And they'd come up there and stay til they find out they don't like it and they sell out and leave. It's not a good area to retire in Oh, yes, we thought so at the time we were there, they didn't want to stay, they all left. But now, we get alittle paper from there, it isn't the one that we had, and there seem to be more you*fc, Well, Iwant to ask you alittle bit about the church activities in Elk River when you were there and growing up and what the Union Church was like. was very nice. It was avery pretty little church 4nd one And Inever appreciated it anymore than Idid with that film. And I think it had a lot to do with the center of activity in Elk River, because they used to have for adults box socials and entertainment in that basement. The place was really well planned or the the church which included everybody that wanted to come. And, of course, we always went to Sunday School AI didn't go to church very much. You know, years ago your ministers to me, would scare_me to death to listen to them up and scream A thought, well, gee, I'd be doing the wrong thing all the time, frighten me, so I went to Sunday School and I tried to teach Sunday School, because anybody do it, but today they really have good methods for it. And I'd say it was quite active. And then the Catholic Church we had, it wasn't as large, the congre gation wasn't, although they could have had if they had had priests that would come down to earth and talk to those Italians, but they seemed to frighten so many of the single men. You mean the single people didn't have much to do with the Catholic Church? That's right. And all those foreigners were Catholic, Thev didn't attend- I don't know hardly any that did, but maybe they contributed I don't know about that. It was the same way at Potlatch, the church did not draw the foreign population. And then they had another church started there, the Nazarene. And that did fair for those who really liked that church, they were faith ful to it. And it was held first in the upstairs of that store I showed vou.

LC: Well» onG of the biggest mistakes that the church made in Elk River; for some reason or another, the guy that owned the theatre was doing a little bit of bootlegging on the side, and for some reason or other, they got it going that they couldn't run shows on Sunday up there. Well Elk River had very little entertainment, the poolhall, like Otto Durk said, "You don't want to go to Elk River, heck, all they got is a poolhall to go to." And they had four or five poolhalls. And, by gosh if they didn't pass a city ordnance that vou couldn't have shows on Sunday. And, I think that hurt the church pretty badly with the young men anyway. And they took pretty mean to it. And then every body used to get in the car and go to Bovill to the Sunday show. Bovill always had- they had quite a show there. And Old Man Denfvan? yes

MC: In Bovill? Oh, I ' that's right.

LC: 01d Man Denivan ran that show down there and he/aSvertised all the time in Elk River, you know, and everybody'd go to Bovill to the show on Sunday. And the church really made a mistake, I think, by doing that. Did the movie theatre in Elk River shut: dox^n altogether then? Oh, no, no, but it couldn't run on Sunday. Then finally they got it opened up, they could go on Sunday afternoon. They even tried to stop baseball on Sunday, but that didn't go over. Oh, I tell you, they had some people that were a little bit too over board. It wasn't going to drive 'em into church, for sure; drive 'em out of church. But we had an element there that was against Sunday shoxtfs and Sunday baseball. Do you think they might have been more strong in that direction because they didn't like bootlegging and all that stuff. I know there was a lot of that that went on.

LC: Well-

SS: I thought that might make the more religious people f« f, ua ueopie to go overboard.

Well, this one particular man, Friend, was the leader of it, and he was the one that was running around with the petition to stop Sunday shows and they got sufficient voters over this controversy that the man was bootlegging and so forth, but it didn't build the church up any, you know. I don't know x^hat he was trving to do.

SS: Was he the reverend in the church?

LC: No» he was thG Prohibitionist in the town. He was agood Democrat, but a Prohibitionist.(Chuckles)

SS: Well» speaking of Southerners; you know, some people in Elk River, they're talking about the Klan being in Elk River, too.

LC: Yeah. And a couple people said that they thought they were mostly Southern ers that were in the Klan. Oh, no, no, I'm pretty sure that Friend, the man that we're talking about, he was a Southernern or more or less from dox^n there, he was in the Klan. And, of course, I don't know for sure, but, I'm sure that Mandy Paige was one of the Ku Kluxers up there.

SS: Was he a—? Policeman up there, h£)was ade sheriff or not. He was a deputy sheriff. Was he a Southerner, too?

MC: I don't think so.

LC: No, but he was- They lived out here in Nez Perce, that's where they came to Elk River from. And his daughter was my teacher, too. But it did- The Klan never was too strong up there and I don't think they scared anybody. Ithink it was just wishful thinking,"^they burned afew crosses around there. Idon't think they burned any more than about two or three at the most.

SS: So, thev didn't really try to do anything so far as you . They didn't intimidate anybody?

LC: No, no, I think it was just a significant symbol of the Ku Kluxers that around. But my first deal, like I said, x^as over there in Colfax, and they really burned around. Of course, Colfax is quite a Catholic. They had that school over there and they had that nunnery, or whatever they called that, had the x^hole thing pretty well organized. I guess it's still there. But I knox the Colfax Commoner the nuns xvould come in occasionally. But I xwuldn't say that the Ku Klux Klan had any real ly big effect on Elk River. I think it was just something to look at, some excitement. No, Elk River was pretty much of a fun town, everybody worked hard, and Saturday night they're looking for dances or something like that. Did you ever cover this Helmer deal, where they had the roller skating rink up there?

SS: I've heard about that place.

LC: Old Man Laxvrence, he told me one time, that the people wouldn't pay their bills in the grocery store so he decided to build a roller rink and they'd spend their money for enjoyment, so he built that roller rink and by gosh, they just come from all over for a long time.

MC: he put a swimming pool outside.

LC: And he had a swimming peel. \rd he rmn had a ballgrounds figured out, too.

MC: That's something we did x^hen we x^rere courting, spent a lot of time, every Saturday night over there.

SS: Went to Helmer, did you?

MC: Yeah.

SS: What were those dances like?

LC: It as quite a nice- they moved that roller rink and dance hall to Troy after and it burned down. And it x«;as quite an active place for the university students from Moscow after that. Maybe somebody could tell you about it that's doxm around Moscow, what happened later, but it finally got afire, like most places. ^C: And there still is a family of Lawrences in-

SS: I spoke to to one of the sons about that, about that place in Helmer. Did Malker Anderson- did he kill himself before you left or was that after?

LC: Well, I don't think Malker Anderson killed himself. There has al ways been that controversy.

SS: What's the-

LC: Well, he was putting off some blasts on stumps or something on the highway, some blasting. And they always cast aspersions about that, but I more or less defend him because I've been around mining camps and some fuses burn ax^ful fast, and it doesn't give a fellow a chance. SS Now, wait, I think you're probably thinking about his brother, Emil.

Emil was the one, yeah. I don't know about Malker. Malker is the one, Malker died in Vs own property, disown home Yeah, that's interesting about Emil, because I heard that Emil had killed himself. Well, I heard that, too, but I would defend a man when he's putting off a blast like that because I know of a case up in Canada where a man lit a fuse; and even the fuses that they had left, they lit them at the inquest and they just went, ssssst, like that. Why, I don't know. But that can happen. And, you know, if a fuse goes that fast it literally paralyses a man to see something burn that's so fast like that.

MC: through a blast. Emil wasn't married, was he? Did he ever marry that girl?

LC: He didn't marry that girl. MC. There's a question over that. SS I've heard that he killed himself, I mean, I had heard- Is there a divided opinion about Malker?

MC: WeH, A I think nobody could prove for sure whether he killed-

LC: He died by a gun blast, didn't he?

SS: Yeah.

MC: In the , wasn't it? Or right on their own property.

LC: Practically in back of their own property.

MC: That x*as strange. He had a very strange wife.

SS: That's what I've heard.

MC: Maggie Mae Christina Anderson, was her name.

SS: I her brother when he was alive-

SS: Yeah-

LC: That whole thing, if one could ever get the real gist of the whole story, it'd be worthy of a book. MC Another thing, the Torgerson family-K that could be Torgerson's Dynasty

SS: Park.

MC: And you know, Mr. and Mrs. £orn«p could give yQU a lot of lnforma_ tion on that. Nearly every young girl that was raised in Park when she was old enough, which xrould have been fourteen in those days, would x«7ork summers or maybe all winter, too for the Torgersons. They could always work there, so much and their board. And they sure could tel1 a , lots of those girls.

LC: Did you meet Bohen?

MC: Not yet.

SS: No, I haven't met—

LC: He can tell you some real stories about how he used to work for Old Man Torgerson. And he herded horses, or tended horses for Old Man Torgerson on Shasta Butte and he got the handsome price of six dol lars a month and his keep. And he's got a lot of good stories.

SS: Well, what is it about Park that seems so interesting?

LC: Well, the dynasty that the Torgersons had ard 1ow they brought peo ple in there.

MC: Did they bring a lot of those people into the area?

LC: They would come there anyx^ay, and they would work for the Torger sons, but eventually they'd starve out. Why, even this Viola, **** talking about working for some sawmill-

MC: That's right, she was. lived

LC: And I think about twenty-five percent of the people in Elk River more or less have been involved in Park at one time or another.

MC: A lot of these girls that came there to work in the camps as flunkies or even for waitresses in Elk River married xvrithin a year. Young men around there. Well, Park is pretty isolated. I think there's about six people live up there right now. But you got this Old Man Bohen up here xvho can tell a lot of the beginning rtories. ^oid George he can give you the Torgerson version of it.

SS: Yeah, I talked to him.

MC: The interesting thing to me is- well,*these people went to work for but the Torgersons,Awhen those young men were able to go and get away froim home, they left. And even Minnie, their youngest sister, x*ent to college here and taught a long time and she was married to Dr. ' let's see, the chiropractor, wasn't he?

LC: Yes.

Chiropractor, he was here. He's still alive. Why was Malker's wife such a strange person? What was the matter xdth her?

MC: I don't know.

LC: she used to be George Speck's girlfriend at one time, too, didn't she? in, t u While Uh-huh. Years back, before they went into Elk River, I think, they lived in Park.

SS: George told me that she broke Eddie Erickson's heart.

MC: 0h» Yes» she did- That's true, too. And she married Malker Anderson. That's right.

LC: I didn't know anything about that. MC Yup, she did, and Eddie never married.

Well, George said that this drove Eddie to really drink, and finally-

LC: He could drink! Really and truly, he was better off, not having her for a wife. What was it about her, she sounds like a tease for one thing. Well, I don't know-

SS: Well, how did she act?

MC: Well,not exactly silly, but I don't think she ever carried on a good conversation. And I don't know x^hether she was, oh, afraid or selfconscious or what. She had three children and she wasn't a very good mother at all. I was never with her in anything socially, I don't think. I believe she's a little older than I, I'm not sure. I don't remember her. I knew who she was. T 'as I can remember. I don't know who she associated with up there. She was absolutely the opposite of Axel's wife. He had a darling wife, intelligent and a good asset to the community. Nice children. I taught two of children. But she died though, didn't she? Died very young and left those six children.

SS: Was that his first wife or second wife?

MC: The first.

SS: What did she die from, do you know?

MC: Heart condition. She x^as a hard worker and she was a reader. She'd read until three or four o'clock in the morning, and I think she just overtaxed her heart. I don't think she ever took anything in the way of drugs or anything like that. She was active in all social affairs, . And her two brothers came there to go to school, I don't know, I think their mother and father separated. Her father was an- well, her's too, it was -' ,he was supposed to our have written the book that we used at the college for.art courses here.Southern Idaho. And these two brothers were quite a bit younger than she and one was Manly and one was George and they didn't look like brothers.

SS: What was their last name?

MC: Hontz, if I remember; I should remember, that would be correct. And George was the one that I went coasting with and Lucille went with Manly^through the good coasting of that one winter. And so then, in the spring they went back to their mother. And they never came back again, Mrs. Anderson started having children and this just didn't give her enough time. iM~y- This was soon after- they hadn't been married for very long? Well, they had been married I imagine a whole year. But she wanted children; she had them just as fast as she could; a year apart. Six real fast. Everybody had a fit. KThey were all good kids. One boy, the youngest boy passed away a few years agoWhere did Mr. Adams live in California?

LC: Oh-

MC: Eureka.

LC: Eureka.

My mother was there one time; she'd been in South California to visit her sisters, and she came home on 101»;so when they stopped in Eureka, why, she decided she'd stay over, well, in fact, their former superintendent of schools el Elk River lived there. She was Walking along the street and somebody behind her called her name, and it was Richard Anderson. She was so pleased. He came and^ook^^ her to his home and they had a real nice evening, ^ose) WeM, many girls met their husbands by flunkying in the camps. Girls go up to the camp flynkying and pretty soon they're marrying some guy and come to Elk River, start raising a family. They didn't do so bad. Iwouldn't want to marry amillhand or logging but, by golly, those girls all did alright. They sure did. Good husbands, good homes. Elk River sounds like it was really much more of asettled town than it was a lumberjack town in some ways. Well, don't sell them short. There was alot of culture in Elk River. There were people that were good musicians; there were people that were good singers and if they x.anted to put on an entertainment in Elk River, it was good. Ican remember the first one Isaw there and Ijust couldn't believe so much entertainment came, out of asmall com munity. They had aChristmas party there, something, and they went all out for it. And there were some beautiful singers at that time, Mrs. Bert Wagner and Mrs. Carse.

MC: Muriel Dollam- Well, she was a musician. She played the piano, alright.

SS: They had singing and

LC: Oh, they had a regular Christmas Tree entertainment.

MC: Another group that gave a lot of entertainments and things, was the Ladies' Aid of the church. Oh, I'll never forget some of the plays they put nn, I sure wish I could find the one that my mother was in when I was a little kid.

LC: You know, I made a big mistake; her mother passed away-

MC: It wasn't your fault.

LC: she had a drawer about that big, like that, and everything in there was all the programs that the Jockheck kids were in or she x^as in or something else like that, they were all in this thing and I just dumped it. All kinds of programs. Well, you asked me and - the way I looked at it- I says, "Oh, Les, I've got so much of that stuff myself that I don't even loo1, at it." And here were calling cards that they- used to use. All the calling cards of all the ladies in Elk River. You mean, they used calling cards in those days? Yes. and oh, anywhere, all over the United States then I think. And it was your duty, you were really obligated to go and call on practically everybody, especially your friends, once and maybe/you only stayed a half hour and you left your card.

SS: Why use a card?

Well, to show that you had been there. they were home? No, no. It was just a formality. And everybody had a little dish that held these calling cards on her square living room table. You've seen these square ones that have the legs that go down like this and then a bottom undershelf, those are real^ antiques. And everybody I think of, Mrs. , Mrs. Woodward, all those women they had these cards. What nationalities were the people vho went there?

MC: Well-

LC: Marineau-

MC: Yeah, Bill Marineau.

LC: I didn't know Gus too well.

MC: And nore wh.UN Italians. Because they didn't want to mix- I think the problem was the priests.

LC: . Ed Allen.

MC: Oh, yeah, he x^as Catholic.

LC: There was a character. Have you covered Ed Allen yet?

SS: No. Who was he? LC; He was a former cook in the lumber camps, and he come to Elk River where he bought the pool hall, and on all ' ads he ever had he put "All Trails lead to Ed Aliens!" And, by gosh, he had the bus iness. But let me tell you something, he had a popcorn machine, he had a regular fountain and everything, yet he ran the pool hall there the tobacco part of it. But, let me tell you something, if one wo man come in there and there was one word uttered that wasn't in place for a lady, that guy wasn't welcome in that pool hall anymore! And he was quite, a character. And everybody- even the kids liked him. Oh, he made a big fuss over all the kids.

MC: (^Laughs.)

LC: Did you find yourself?

MC: Yes- I was thinking, well, I x^asn't in that; I was thinking, and then I thought,So I had to be.

SS: Was Ed Allen a boisterous fellox

LC: No. Very much of a gentleman. Very kindly fellow and everybody liked him; ran a clean place and he was just- well, he just looked more like a senator than he did a pool hall man.

SS: Were the pool hall in stiff competition with each ot^er, or va-? t^ere more than enough business to accommodate all of them? Now, Harry Adams had a pool hall.

LC: Well, he had-

MC: DidA own it?

LC: Yes, he was in it for a while. But he worked there quite a lot, too. He helped out.

MC: Yes, I remember that.

LC: And-

SS: Were they competing for the business, these pool halls?

LC: No, you didn't have to compete. There was so many young fellows and nothing for 'em to do.

MC: And furthermore, they had their groups and their friends that they met with at these different places. The lumberjacks particularly, like so many went to Rob moir J^ - '- went to pavish. But the lumberjacks I don't think went to Ed Allen's that much.

LC: Not too much.

MC: The lumberjacks went to that other pool hall, I can't remember the name of it, when I was little.

SS: Who went to Allen's place then?

LC: Everybody in town. Everybody went there. Everybody, but I think that especially the foreign ones met more in the other tx*o that I mentioned. MC

SS: Did the newspaper ever get into any controversies when you were working with it in Elk River? Was there ever any—

MC: ^Heavens, no. I think so. LC Well, no, he got involved in the Sunday show deal. He was on the SS; LC; council, but he stuck up for the show, but there was enough to out vote him, but everybody was to Bi.1.! for sticking with the younger people. That Sunday show deal was a kind of a turning point in Elk River I think. It turned for the church, too. Was it more a old people versus young people kind of thing? No. It was more against- the younger people more or less turned against the church for it. It was a mistake, you know what I mean.

MC: Well, I think they got some books for it, like/ yourself, you with plays in. can send to companies and get these little books, Also, if you get a pretty big one, you pay a royalty, ten, fifteen dollar* 4A6fl,

LC: They give musicals and plays.

MC: I remember one they gave- the adults in Elk River, and some woman as trying to buy a pair of shoes, and she wanted- and she had sup posedly big feet and they couldn't fit her. She said, "I don't want that- I can t use her words now- shoes shaped like a fanJ (Laughter) Some of those things stick with me. I think that was so funny! And they had two theatres, one down by- Ceutl*» Ur.

LC: Old Tom's place.

MC: Yeah, Old Tom's place there, and it was a bowling alley, too. It was a theatre and a bowling alley.

LC: It was more of a duck pin than it was a bowling alley. ML- No it was a bowling alley. And, oh, they had a lot of ,. Here, this is ' one I was going to tell you about. This Mrs. Wright, she was the mother of George Wright, and I asked the people that x^ere here at the reunion about this picture- I remember, I was there and she gave it, supposedly 4orall of the kids in town, but they x^eren't there- said they hadn't been there. And it was Hallowe'en and, and "You must not eat a thing, oh, we're going to have so much to eat." And this was in Joe Pavish's bar-

LC: In the basement.

MC: Yeah, in the basement there. And my mother tried to get Fred and me to eat and we wouldn't do it. All we got to eat was soda crackers! They used to have boxes, like this, long boxes about this high of soda crackers, and that's all we had to eat! Mama said, "Well, you just listen to me next time." But she didn't give away the secret, you know. She just didn't tell us that we wouldn't get anything to eat. She.

SS: And that was the- you mean, it was all planned?

MC: Yes.

SS: That was a trick or treat?

MC: Uh-huh. She knew. Well, we didn't know what trick or treat was then. But she knew that x^as all we were going to get. And we all had to come dressed as ghosts.

SS: Maybe why that's some of the kids

MC: Sure, I don't know xriiether they all did the same thing, refused to eat or not, like we did.

LC: You know, just changing the subject a little bit from Elk River, but Neva Hill was quite a settlement at one time.

SS: Was it? Yeah, they had even a schoolhouse there. I thought of- no, Nina's last name

SS: !s there anybody still living out there? At Neva Hill?

LC: No- There were even two or three mines there at one time.

MC- I can't remember who else went to school out there besides Nina.

LC: I'll tell you who might have some information; You know the guy that wrote "The Trees Grew Tall"?

SS: Yeah. John

LC: Well, he might have some information on Neva Hill. They had a schoolhouse out there, had quite a little settlement.

MC: How much you going to be allowed to put in about all these towns?

LC: Well, he's gathering it. ^pausfc^ — well enough to climb that hill, because he didn't think it was worth bothering about, as far as being" because that was a pretty high hill.

SS: Did you have to walk up to get there?

LC: Yeah.

SS: Couldn't drive up it?

LC: Well, the doctor would call. Oh, you could get around the back way, but I mean, the doctor would come to the house.

SS: Was it much of a hospital?

LC: Oh, many a operation and everything.

MC: oh» yes.^It was as complete as could be for a small town. Had some pretty good doctors.

LC: That was maintained by the company- the Potlatch Company.

MC: That was another thing Virginia mixed up in her item, was about the- what was that? The first doctor- was Dr. Sealy, not the doctor she had, because Pr. Seply had twins, a boy and a girl twin , and I remember them very well. And Mildred- Mildred and Paul x^ere their names. And one day Mildred x,as Lillian Moriss's sister in the buggy, well, she needed some help to get up the steps-all these are little incidents that I tell you about-j and I took hold of the bottom of that buggy to help her get up the steps- and they xvere the. first doctors and not the one that she- (change of subject- balance of first subject was cut out)

LC: No, not exactly, what you do in Bocci ball- they nlav on a little court, most of these guys played road bocci- they'll throw the little ball called the Mf^ and then they'll all roll to see who gets the closest to it, and they usually have partners, and it's just similar to lawn bowling, you know you throw the small ball and then you bowl to see who gets closest to it, but bocci ball- well, you have the lit tle ball about so big, like that, and then you have these other b*lls they're all round, English box^ling is kind of a disc affair, but these are all round and boy, I'm telling you those Italians can reallv throw 'em.

SS: Do they gamble with that?

LC: Gamble!! They gamble all night.

MC: They throw them up like that, too. I saw them do that in Elk River. And yelled and screamed, and oh, and run, they run with it, too.

LC: 0nce in a while when we went up to Canada, I never played with them because Iwasn't good enough, but they play road bocci. They'll go down the road and play back and forth. And they play so murh a point. Now down in Oakland, California they have bocci tournaments and they have 'em in Italian clubs, and you'd better have money when you go in there to play because they really gamble. And it's a serious game with them. And they got all the art in the world, they'll go like that, you know, and they.u hold the ball then they'll lay it down and then roll it. You should see some of them. I don't know if they had a bocci game in Spokane or not; lot of Italians in Spokane, you know. And maybe vou can find one the next time you go up there. there is a gap with a change in the subject-

LC: Burden, the wandering Jew and Dean Hadley, Shorty Armstrong, and Chief^ddie. He was an Indian, full-blooded Indian, and by Ood, he was a wonderful operator, linotype operator.

SS: What makes a printer a tramp printer?

LC: Well, they don't stay too long and they don't care how they get there. Some of 'em lose their lives falling off of freight trains, or not making the jump. Now there's another fellow, I wouldn't call him a tramp, but he had an accident, he lost both legs somehow, he never said, but his name was Joe " and he's living in Texas and he was the operator I've ever seen. He the best.

SS: What was the deal with these guys? Would they go just x^here there was - where there happened to be work for a short period of time?

LC: Go all around the country, they'd stay till the rush work run and they are on their way. And they'll go from place to plac- some of 'em go clear across the United States. The Wandering Jew used to make it between the Printers' Home and the Northwest circuit, down to San Francisco and then back to around to where the Printers' Home was in Colorado Springs, and he'd tell all the news about the boys and everything, but he alwavs went to work, he was a good prin- ter.All those men were competent men. Shorty Armstrong was a very fast man. Fast man? man, he did form work, he didn't work on the machines. Putting the for^s together and putting the linotype composition into the ad form and making pages up and things like that. He was

good and . Hadley was a good man

SS: Well, why would these guys, I mean, were they tramps because they were single men? I don't know about the lumberjack tramps, but the printing tramps- We had lots of them, we had lots of 'em. And they'll stay until the work's gone and x^hen no work is there they're on their way again.

SS: Heavy drinkers? The best. The best. The last time- there was one man I think it x^as Chieffclddy, he hit me for two dollars on the street one night and he said,- Yeah, it was ,he met me on the street one night and anted some money and I gave it to him, but he told me a hard story. He said that he was showing up there and he didn't feel well enough to work, so printers have a habit of passing their card you know and the guys put two bits apiece on it and help 'em out till they're ready to go to work, that's been on a binge or something. And he says one day they told him if he didn't open up his slip on the board they x^ouldn't give him any more money. So, he says, "I opened my slip," and he says, "you know, I x^ent down stairs and they said I had to open it up fifteen minutes before showup time." He says, "I went downstairs and fooled around and come back and sure enough, I was hired." He says, "I don't know what happened, but the boss come m and me sittin' in his chair with my feet on his desk so he fired me." He said, "That's x^hy I need some money rigt now. I got to get located again." But they always paid it back.

SS: They called this guy the Wandering Jew because he was Jew? LC. He was a Jew,^and what better could you get for aJew than Nate And he was a grand fellow and always happy, would stay'til the rush was over. There is some places over in Montana that he x^orked and around the house here I have a eight-page- either four or eight-page tabloid about his history; here he'd been all around the country. He's been through herohere- He s been up to Spokane over

Where is his home? Does he have a home, too? He didn't have ahome then, his home was wherever he hung his hat. But, don't take it away, he might have been atourist printer, let's put it, but he was agood worker. Don't take anything ax.ay from his- Would these guys mostly work in cities, or would they x.ork in little towns as often, or what? The only way atramp printer will work in alittle t-xn is to get enough to eat to get to the next town, but he'll hit the city before long. And of course, printers in those days all belonged to the union and when they hit a town of any consequence, well, they could pass their card for alittle help and the chairman of the shop would pass the card along 'til he'd get adollar and ahalf, two dollars or something like that. You say pass their card- they had a little card? Every printer has atiling card if he's aunion printer and if he stays in the locality he has to get aworking card in that particular area. And if they have atraveler, they pass it, if they have a working card, they're supposed to go to work. If they have aworking card, it's pretty hard to pass because they put 'em to work and there was always plenty of work, most generally „fsomebody. go to work that way. Most shops would put 'em to work Just to get some work out of 'em; keep 'em going. It was agood racket for some of 'em. Yeah, but being on the road all the time, that sounds pretty rough to me, to be traveling around. They enjoyed it. Go clear across the country in no time at all. Would they know they wouldn't have to go hungry- Imean, would they have to worry about that?

LC: Oh, I think at times some of 'em went hungry. But if they could ind anewspaper or printshop, even asmall shop, they could go to work. And it was part of their pride to be a good tramp printer. And they were all competent men. Would they hit up the working printers for a little money if they could? They'd go to a shop, like the Tribune down here years ago, it's not so much now, but they'd hit a shop like that and walk into the shop and ask to see the chairman and ask him if there was any work and -rhtn the chairman in turn would refer him to the foreman and if there wasn tany work he'd ask if he could pass the card and^he'd get two or three dollars and move on to the next town. But that kind of brotherhood is gone now, we don't have the union like we used to.

SS: Was the union a really strong one?

LC: 0h' at times lt was areally a fraternal organization among prin ters. Today, we've taken the wrong kind of people in, we don't have ship the fratnernal. In fact, we took in enough new fellows that xv-eren't indoctrinated in the idea of unionism, and now lost our pension, because they voted us out of it. I used to get $100 a month pension from the typographical union. Today, because we took all these new guys in and these new processes and everything, my union pension has been reduced from $100 to $14 amonth, but below ten, we don't have any pension anymore.

Transcribed by Frances Rawlins, November 1, 1978

0:00 - Pinicking by Elk River Dam; Japanese in Elk River

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Segment Synopsis: Picnicing by the dam at Elk River. Japanese at Elk River were very nice but didn't mix.

7:00 - A mean teacher; sister's death; accidents at home; closeness of town children

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Segment Synopsis: A mean teacher. Jockheck home. Little sister's death from non-contagious meningitis. Her sister had a sledding accident, and two other accidents. The closeness of children in the town has lasted through their lifetimes.

20:00 - Skating in the winter and husband suprising townspeople with skating

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Segment Synopsis: Skating in winter. Husband astounded the townspeople by his skating when he arrived from Canada.

23:00 - Taking college prep classes at Elk River School; no fear of working men; getting candy for delivering meat

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Segment Synopsis: College preparatory work was required at Elk River school. Town buildings. Parents had no fear for their children from the working men; candy for delivering meat.

30:00 - Where father learned butchering trade; how they came to the area; working in the meat market; Christmas celebrations

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Segment Synopsis: Father learned the butchering trade in Germany. He came to Palouse from Denver for his health, and moved to Elk River in 1912 for the opportunity. Mother was raised in Denver. Operating the meat market. The children had to help grind meat, pick chickens, and deliver meat; they worked too hard. Brother Fred lost two fingers in the grinder on July fourth. For throwing sawdust in pickles and meat, they got no presents from Santa Claus. Christmas celebration.

44:00 - Purchases for the children; childhood freedom; Easter celebrations

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Segment Synopsis: Father never objected to mother's purchases for children. Easter eggs. Father didn't share responsibility with mother, though she was a better manager than he was. The children had less freedom because of 4-ather's attitude about being a businessman.

50:00 - How and what they played growing up; games; what boyfriends were called

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Segment Synopsis: Children's play in the woods. Playhouses. Punishment for misusing brother's bicycle. Sledding on the hills. Home parties and birthdays. Pom Pom Pullaway. Kids played in their own neighborhoods. Playing under the church ramp. Boyfriends were calledTellowsV

60:00 - Young people dating; dancing; husband was an expert violinist

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Segment Synopsis: Young people dating walked on the railroad tracks. Father disapproved of her dancing, but she started to at fifteen. Local bands. Husband an expert violinist; a man who didn't like him derided his playing.

67:00 - How the world wars affected her German family; school sports

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Segment Synopsis: The world wars were difficult for Germans. In the First World War father's meat went bad because he could only sell it on certain days. Germans had to be careful. One teacher was mean to her, but she didn't know of people being mean to her parents. Yardage from Germany stopped during the war. School sports.

78:00 - Separate social lives for cultural groups; local fire fighting practices; community events and social life

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Segment Synopsis: IWW's in jail. Foreign families had their own social life. An Italian quartet. Andrew Bloom. Munson told men in poolhall to fight fire. On two occasions trains were readied to evacuate people from Elk River; mother's confidence in face of fire. Community picnics. Lack of participation by single men in community social affairs.

90:00 - Social activities for married couples and wives; going to basketball games by train

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Segment Synopsis: Social activities for married couples and wives. Train transportation to other towns for basketball games; this was a chance to make friends.

93:00 - When the mill left Elk River and its affects on the town; sending care packages to Germany after World War II; visits to Denver

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Segment Synopsis: Taking the mill out of Elk River - regrets of Potlatch in retrospect; hard on the people of the town. Difficulties in father's business - his leniency with credit, effect of automobiles. His meat market became a grocery store. Despite parents' generous donations to charity, others did not offer to help German children after the Second World War. Her packages to Germany after the Second War. Trains to Denver to visit mother's parents. She and her brother were "bad" children.

103:00 - working at Elk River print shop for William Marineau; trying to into the US; why he left Colfax

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Segment Synopsis: (J. Les Clark: ) Going to work at the Elk River print shop for William Marineau. Marineau promised his employment to an immigration investigator. He was turned away trying to get into the U.S. because they thought he was too young to be a printer. He left Colfax after less than a week because the Ku Klux Klan was burning crosses for his boss, a Catholic. Dealing with immigration.

112:00 - Learning to print in Trail; wages of printing; working in Elk River

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Segment Synopsis: Learning to print in Trail for four years. Wages of $22. 50 for 48 hours. Work in Elk River. Apprenticing was rough; you had tears in your eyes.

119:00 - Elk River Falls; enjoyment of living in a small town

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Segment Synopsis: Elk River Falls. His enjoyment of Elk River, where everyone knew everyone; the men from the mill ribbed each other in the poolhalls.

120:00 - Union thinking he'd do better printing in large city; playing sports in Elk River; coating requests; speech patterns

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Segment Synopsis: Union secretary thought he would do better to print in a city. He played sports in Elk River. He turned down a request from coach of Portland Buckaroos to play hockey on the Rosslyn farm team because it was near Trail. He got ribbed because of the way he talked.

126:00 - Soliciting printing jobs around Elk River and surrounding area; press breakdown; History of Elk River Press; Linotype versus Simplex printing

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Segment Synopsis: Marineau was smart to move to Moscow and work for Dr. Robinson. At Elk River he went around the country and solicited a great deal of job printing. The paper took them only two days a week. A press breakdown. Small town presses depended on job printing. Marineau had good job printing equipment. History of Elk River press. Advantage of linotype over Simplex.

134:00 - Music in Elk River; Courtship of wife; Early women graduates from Elk River; new women married quickly in Elk River

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Segment Synopsis: Elk River band. Foreigners in town. Her picture. Their courtship took five years. She went to Lewiston Normal with his moral support. She wanted and expected to live away from Elk River; he was the one eligible man who didn't work in the mill. Early women graduates from Elk River. Women who came to Elk River to work often married rather quickly.

145:00 - Playing amateur hockey in Portland; history of mill and timber in Elk River

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Segment Synopsis: He became an amateur hockey star in Portland, and got a job with the team sponsor. His belief that the one-industry town was a poor risk. Marineau used to emphasize that there was eighty years of timber at Elk River. For a brief time the Potlatch company considered shipping the timber to Elk River and Weippe rather than Lewiston.

150:00 - Marineau's excitment about mill expansion and problems associated with it; Potlatch camps on Breakfast Creek

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Segment Synopsis: Marineau's excitement about prospects for expansion. Heavy winter snows a drawback. Another consideration may have been that Potlatch's twenty year contract with The Milwaukee was expiring, and the railroad may have planned to raise the rates. Potlatch men camped on Breakfast Creek, which may have increased their interest in the route to Lewiston.

154:00 - Affects of the Depression on Portland printing; Working at printing in Eugene, Springfield and linotype school in San Francisco

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Segment Synopsis: Depression hit Portland printing hard after 1929 stock crash. The job from playing hockey. Working in Eugene and Springfield. Decision to go to linotype school in San Francisco.

158:00 - Death of Lamphere and what it ment for Dr. Robinson; Moscow newspaper buys out Troy newspaper

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Segment Synopsis: If Lamphere hadn't died, he would have kept up the fight against Dr. Robinson. Marineau noted that Robinson's materials sold well. The Moscow News-Review started by buying out the Troy News so that they could run legal notice without a 72 week delay.

162:00 - Opposition to school consolidation; pressure against paper

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Segment Synopsis: His opposition to school consolidation as he ran Nevada City newspaper in the fifties, believing it would kill the town. He kept winning at the elections until his paper was bought out. Pressures against his paper.

168:00 - Community church was the center of activities; Shut down of Elk River movie theater on sundays; Klan presence in the area; Helmer dance hall

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Segment Synopsis: Community church was center of local activity. As a youngster she got afraid of the angry preaching. The Catholic Church did not encourage the foreigners to attend. Elk River shut down the movie theatre on Sundays at the instigation of the church; this drove the youth out of town and out of church. The leader of the movement was in the Klan. The Klan didn't scare people and wasn't too strong. Colfax had a large number of Catholics. Helmer dance pavilion was very popular - Lawrence said he started it because people would pay for entertainment better than groceries.

178:00 - Deaths of Emil Anderson and Malker Anderson

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Segment Synopsis: Emil Anderson may have died accidentally, because the fuse may have gone too fast. Death of Malker Anderson.

180:00 - Torgerson dynasty at Park; Malker Anderson's wife; Southern Idaho connections; girls meeting husbands at cmaps

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Segment Synopsis: Torgerson dynasty at Park - he employed many people for very low wages. Malker's strange wife. Axel Anderson's wife was a hard worker and a reader; her father was Mr. Hontz, a noted artist from south Idaho. Many girls met their husbands by flunkeying in the camps.

188:00 - Elk River culture; music in Elk River; Pool halls and attendance at them

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Segment Synopsis: Elk River had a lot of culture - music and singing, plays (put on by Ladies' Aid). Women used calling cards on visits. People who attended the Catholic Church. Ed Allen's pool hall and confectionary; attendance at various pool halls.

194:00 - Tried to stop the Elk River movie theater from shutting down on Sundays; church alienating youn people

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Segment Synopsis: Bill Marineau voted against shutting down the movie theatre on Sunday on the city council, but was outvoted. This was a turning point, the church alienating the young people.

196:00 - Elk River plays and theatres; Neva Hill settlement; Elk River Hospital; playing games

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Segment Synopsis: Plays and theatres. At a trick-or-treat party all the kids got to eat were soda crackers as a trick. Neva Hill had a settlement. The Elk River hospital was complete for a small town. Playing the Italian ball-throwing game.

203:00 - Tramp printers going where the work was; working cards; brotherhood in the printing union declining

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Segment Synopsis: Noted tramp printers. They went where the work was, and could pass their union card for a little money. Travelling and working cards. They drank and were highly skilled. Brotherhood in the printing union has declined.

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