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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: December 13, 1974 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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SAM SCHRAGER: Tell about your father's coming out to this country, under what circumstances he came.

LOLA GAMBLE CLYDE: OK. My father was in about the second graduating class from San Francisco Theological Seminary, which was the only western Presbyterian seminary in the United States at the time. And the town of Moscow had aBaptist Church already founded, and it had a Dunkard Church which met in the homes of the various members. So agroup of Pennsylvania women who were homesick for the white churches of their own country, saw the grey-green bunch grass rolling, and they figured the Presbyterians should have achurch here, too. So they contacted aDr. Boyd, who was the Presbyterian minister at Lewiston, and he wrote to San Francisco Theological Seminary. And as my father was in that spring graduating class, he was given the mission to come up into Idaho to establish Presbyterian churches. Our church was the third Presbyterian church founded in the state of Idaho, as well as the third church in the town of Moscow. Boise had a Presbyterian church and Lewiston had Presbyterian churches ahead of . My father always liked to tell how he came by steamboat to the mouth of the Columbia River and by rlverboat to Walla Walla. He was subsidised by the great Lad Banking House of Portland. They were banking and shipping people and immensely wealthy. He got as far as Walla Walla, here he found anice young horse with abrand new saddle and bridle waiting for him, and asum of money to come up into this country. It had all been given by the great La* Company of Boise, and they were always friends of the Presbyterian Church. They donated $100 toward the building of the first building that was established here, and when my f.fcr's church at Goldendale, Washington, burned down, they vere the first people to offer to send money to help with the construetion of a new church.

SAM: He took the horse and rode out here?

LC: Yes, my father rode up into this country and there were two interesting stories Iremember him telling. They got as far as Almota. Here he met agentleman from Scotland. They had three little girls with them, too. Two of the tiny girls were able to walk, and one was ababy in arms. These were the Cameron family from . When they found out my father was a Presbyterian minister, they invited him to come to their tent south of Moscow and baptise the little girls. This my father did the following Sunday when he reached Moscow. This was the first Presbyterian baptismal service conducted in this new territory. When my father got as far as Lewiston, he was met by Governor McConnell. He wasn't then governor, but he was one of Moscow's leading citizens, and together they rode to the top of the Lewiston grade. Here they stopped at the Ruddy house, which was ahalfway house where meals were served. There were three lovely young daughters waiting on the table at the stagecoach stop. Governor McConnell joked (many years later Iheard the two old men sit and tell this story to each other) how my father, who was not married at the time, saw these lo^ly young girls and he told them, "Now girls whenever you get married, be sure you marry an Irishman." Governor McConnell, who too was Irish, said, "Now, Im sure this young man is just speaking one word for the Irish and two for himself." This was agreat joke with the old gentlemen in their old ages.

SAM: When he got to Moscow, what was it that he then had to do to get

LC: Well, there was only one church here at the time and that was the Baptist Church. They always graciously consented to any other churches coming and using their building. My father preached there as well as in many of the little log schoolhouses which had already been established in the rural communities around. I've heard Papa tell about it being at the Baptist Church, and he asked for some volunteer, they had alittle reed organ, and he asked for avolunteer to come and play the organ for the singing. Eovely young Elizabeth Taylor Clayton stepped forward and played. They played "The Cross of Christ, Cherish," and my father always loved to sing that song. That was real interesting how in this pioneer community there was someone able to play, and they carried on their church services.

SAM: Did he manage to support himself?

LC: Well, he was largely subsidifed. He was sent here by the American Board of Missions. So those were really missionaries sent out by the San Francisco Theological Seminary, though beside, just the free will offering ,Idon't thin^there was really much money in the community because there weren't over/15 regular members, I imagine, of the church. But I've also heard my father tell about the first Presbyterian wedding that he conducted. He was living in a little cabin over at the foot of the Paradise hill, and he said that he'd noticed avery lovely young couple that were very interested in religion. Everytime he spoke at any little schoolhouse, coming riding horseback came this nice looking girl and her escort. The lovely young girl was a girl named Julia WarnF*1 who was the adopted daughter of the Bennett Summerfields. Her escort was handsome, courtly, young George Northrop. They'd listen most attentively to the sermon. So one lovely October day, the young couple rode horseback over to where my father's cabin stood. The groom had brought half asack of hand shelled navy beans. This was to be the wedding fee that he gave to the minister for performing the marriage ceremony. So, I've often heard young George Northrop, when he became courtly, old George Northrop, tell how he'd spent the previous winter hand shelling that bunch of beans to supply the marriage fee for the wedding.

SAM: Do you think he often took his fee in produce?

LC: Yes, Ithink so. Ithink there was very little money in the country at that time, and you paid for most of the services in goods, that's right, in vegetables. But as my father was batching in his pioneer cabin on his homestead that he had taken up, Iimagine all those things came in pretty handy.

SAM: What kind of range did he have as far as where he traveled?

LC: Oh, well, I think he went to Colfax because the records show that he established aPresbyterian Church in the town of Colfax. He also went down intp the Lapwai country because Iheard him tell how in the spring freshet the big runoff of the spring down there, he and a friend who was one of the founders of the Presbyterian church, a man named William Groat, how they tried to ford the Lapwai Creek it joined the Clearwater River. The horses got down and floundered,and he walked out on the tongue of the buggy to cut the tugs loose, but the horses weren't able to swim and make it to shore. The water carried them away and drowned them. It was all the two men could do to make it across the river themselves and save themselves. So he supervised and rode from the Lapwai country up into this country and over, beyond adoubt, as far as Colfax. Now, there were no Presbyterian churches in Spokane at that time. Cowley came a little bit after that, but at that time the radius would befrom around Moscow.

SAM: Boy, the loss of those horses must have been a great loss to him.

LC: Well, Ithink it was. I imagine they belonged to the ruling elder of the church, who was Mr. Groat, but it was a loss, anyway. But the water is high there in the spring, and we've often seen the water way up over where the little park is now.

SAM: What kind of responsibilities do you think he had as preacher? You said he baptised and ...

LC: Oh, yes, and married and conducted the funeral services, as well as comforting the parishioners and holding regular services. But the church wasn't built until after my father had gone to Victoria, B. C., so the church meetings had to be held either in the schoolhouses or in the Baptist church, which is located right where the present Baptist church is in Moscow now.

SAM: I have heard that he ministered during a smallpox epidemic?

LC: Well, it was mostldiptheria. There was no toxin, anti-toxin then,and when the children got diptheria, the little throats just closed up and they died. There, we had one gentleman in town who had some secret remedy that was supposed to cure them. It consisted mostly of using coal oil, and they often called Uncle Jimmy Johnson, "Coal Oil Johnson," because this remedy that he had for diptheria combined the use of coal oil, but I don't know, I rather doubt that that really had any effect in saving the children. But they certainly died, and the proof of it is to go through the Moscow cemetery and see all the little headstones there of children that died in those early years with the Black Diptheria.

SAM: Was your father much involved in fighting the disease?

LC: Well, Idon't think he had much (chuckles) medical ability. Ithink he was called upon mostly to come and comfort the bereaved and tell them the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away; and suffer the little children to come unto me,and forbid them not for such is the Kingdom of Heaven. I think all you could do was stand by pretty helplessly and watch them die. So we've come ajlong way, you know, in preventive medicine since those early pioneer days.

SAM: Well, when you speak of his preaching do you have much of an idea, or can you imagine what his preaching would have been like in those day 8?

LC: Well, I think it was pretty orthodox. It was pretty much the old Presbyterian either saved or you weren't. He wasn't much of a believer/in predestination, but I think that it stuck pretty religiously to the Bible and interpreted it pretty literally. It would be kind of unbending. My father always liked to tell how he'd studied the exegesis of the thing, and how he'read it in the Hebrew and the Greek. He did have avery wonderful memory; now this is something quite interesting, because the old records of the San Francisco Theological Seminary say that when they gave him his examination, the examining board marveled at the wonderful memory he had. Ican remember when Iwas ayoung girl in college,our philosophy teacher had given me 200 Bible verses, just the chapter and verse, and Iwas to get aconcordance and look them up and write down what those verses were. So Ijust fought 1would go home and ask my father how many of them he knew, and/what he didn't know Icould look up. Out of the 200 Bible verses ,of course they were well known verses, he knew all of them and Ididn't have to look up any. So that's how well they knew the Bible in those days, they knew every word of it. He could recite whole passages and passages of it and never make amistake. It was really interesting,and when Iwent back and told my philosophy teacher at the university what my (chuckles) father had done, that Ididn't have to look up any of them, that he could give me all of them, he said, "Well, they don't study, they don't learn the Bible like that anymore, do they?" And that's right.

Did he work in foreign languages too? Did you say he knew Hebrew?

Well, he had read the Bible in the Hebrew and in the Greek. Idon't think he ...They were very thorough in the teaching in those days, they were very, very thorough.

Would he then have spent much of his own time studying when he was out here, do you think?

Yes, Ithink so. He was agood Bible student, and Ithink he did lots of certainly trained them well. They were well grounded in the Bible and they weren't so concerned with the great social issues of the day as they are now. But there weren't so many social issues. It was all pioneer country, you know, and they were mostly concerned with just getting enough food and clothing and breaking up alittle sod, and getting crops planted. I think that the Sunday when they went to church was more of a social event, and it was a chance to get together and a chance to get cleaned up and get a bath, and go out and meet with some other people. Often they took their lunches with them and made sort of a picnic out of it in the good weather. They'd go to the chiich and sing and visit and then eat, have a nice dinner and then go home. It was the social event of the week-with many of the pioneer people. I think that that had a real mission in the lives of the people too. It was areal fine thing.

SAM: Do you have much of an idea of where the Presbyterians in the county were drawn from? I mean,were they people who had just been Presbyterians back East?

LC: Yes, I think so. I think there were several people around here: a Mrs. Doak, and aMary Hoke. This was the grandmother of great-grandmother Hoke. They were all Presbyterians; they were Pennsylvania Dutch. Most of the Pennsylvania Dutch were from the Dutch Reform from the Presbyterians the followers of John Calvin from Holland. The Pennsylvania Dutch were more closely identified with the Presbyterian church than any other church. Dr. Reeder was one of the ruling elders of the church too. They were of course of Scotish extraction. And that was real interesting.

SAM: When you say that he didn't believe strongly in predestination, what do you mean by that? What was his view?

LC: Well, the old Orthodox Presbyterians believed it was all settled whether you were going to be damned or if you were going to be saved, and no matter what you did here on earth, it didn't have much effect. Your destiny had already been cut out for you. Well, my father didn't hold with that he thought that we could be saved by the redeeming grace of Christ, as well as by our own actions, that our own actions would redeem us. And I think that's abetter belief. Over the yeas the Presbyterians have certainly rejected all thought of predestination. I think most of them still believe in the saving grace—that we have been saved by the death of the Savior, but most of us have taken a much broader view of our religion than what they had 100 years ago.

SAM: And you do feel that there was very little social teaching as apart of the preaching. . .

LC: Well, they always taught about "Thou shalt love they neighbor as thyself that was reaching out. And the people that were hard pressed for money, why we should try to help them, we should try to help the poor and the weak. We were to be good followers of Christ, and of course alot of the social work of today is founded on the same idea—that if we would follow the teachings of Jesus we wouldn't need so much emphasis on social workers and that sort of thing. But,in those days there was no racial bigotry, you know, of course we never had any of the black people here. In those times, they felt that the Indians should be savedthat they had never heard the story of Jesus, and that it was the mission of the churches and of the Presbyterians to get out and convert them, while really the Indians had avery fine religion of their own. They were the first ecologists-they believed in living in harmony with nature, not to try to conquer nature, but to live in harmony with it. They said, "The earth is my mother, and the sun is my father." All nature was their Bible,and they knew every word of it. They saw God In the setting of the sun, and in the All of it was the work of God. They said, "The earth is my mother, shall Icut her hair, or cut hay? Shall Idig under her skin and take out her bones, like the white people dug the ore from the earth?"They said, "No, we won't do this because when we die, our mother won't take us back'again to her breast." So they would just live with what Mother Nature provided for them,and they wouldn't try to cultivate the land or dig for ore, or cut the grass or cut the trees. They were the first ecologists-the Nez Perce Indians.

SAM: The Nez Perce felt this?

LC: Oh yes, uh huh, and Ithink that was avery good religion. Idon't know how the (chuckles) Presbyterians could improve much on it, really. Ithink that they had avery good religion of their own, but Ithink that from the time of Henry Harmon Spalding, all of the Presbyterians tried to enlighten the good Nez Perce Indians around here.

EARL CLYDE: ... thought you were broadcasting.

SAM: She is.

LC: Oh, yea. (chuckles)

SAM: She's practicing. How are you, Mr. Clyde?

EC: (Chuckles) You've got along waya to go.

LC: (Chuckles) He doesn't like to hear me get started-he thinks Inever get tfrough. (Chuckles)

SAM: Oh, well there's no end to it.

LC: No no, there's no end to it. (Chuckles)But that's how it was-the way I see it,anyway.

SAM: Since we're talking about that, what do you think the influence of Spalding's bringing religion was to the Nez Perce, to their way of looking at things.

LC: Well,the Indians had ,so many things in their favor. They said of Henry Harmon Spalding and of the Catholics that we Indians may fight about something that we know something about, but here are people fighting and they don't know, neither one is sure that they're right. We never fight about our religion. That seemed very sensible to me because nobody had the answers, and yet they carried on such arelent less war against each other. And the Indians didn't believe in that. Henry Harmon Spalding thought they should only take one wife some of them had gone along with that and others didn't. But you don't legislate morals into people,either. Ithink probably the Indians saw plenty of examples among the fur traders and the early mountain men of the country that they didn't think they were sinning too much. And I don't think they were either.

SAM: Do you think that Spalding's effect of bringing the Christian gospel to some of the Nez Perce, do you think that had alot to do with the dividedness of the tribe, eventually?

LC: Oh yes, Ido, Ithink so. There have always been the Christian and the non-Christian Indians since the days of Henry Harmon Spacing cause his first converts were Old Timothy and Old Otef Joseph and James. The people that folded them, then became mostly Christian. And the non-Christians were the follower, of the people who resented the coming of the whites. It went on down to the treaty and non-treaty Indians. The treaty Indians were the Christian Indians; The non-treaty Indians were the non-Christians. Ithink it added greatly to it-even yet they have two summer camps. At will be the Christian Indians, and around the butte at Mud Springs will be the non-Christian Indians, and they still call themselves the heathens. There's lot of going back and forth of course between the two camps, but at one it's mostly religious education and the singing of hymns, round at the other it1, playing the tick games and doing alittle gambling, and having alittle fun going on, alittle drinking, little fun going on. There's still the two camp. of them. I think that there's still the treaty and the non-treaty Indians, all right.

SAM: Does this break down to different parts of the reservation? Do

LC: No, they .11 live, they seem to live together. It's not certain parts, it. just, it's different in the philosophy and different in the way of life. One of the great gripping chapters of the Nez Perce history at the great Treaty of 1863. The Treaty of 1855 had given the great Wallow, country to Old Chief Jo.eph-th.t had alw.y, been hi. homeland. While he wa. one of Spalding', first Christian converts, his love of the land surmounted everything else. He wanted to be buried at the foot of Lake Wallowa, which he is. There's amarker there to mark the place. But he laid the charge at Young Chief Joseph's door-he said, "You must never sell the bone, of your father and mother. You must fight for the beautiful Wallowas." All the tribe, knew that Young Chief Joseph, who was really apeace-loving man.would dig up the war hatchet and fight in defense of the beautiful Wallowas. So in the Treaty of 1863, when they held the great council at Lapwai, at Spalding and Lapwai, into the tent where sat Howard ani Miles and the rest of them, with their bras, and their braid, came Old Chief Joseph, with his braids and his blanket. Under hi. blanket he carried the white man's covenant, the white man's promise of Christianity and of brotherhood and fair play. It wa. the Book of Maew-the little go.pel that Henry Harmon Spa Iding had given him off the first printing press. A. he sat there and listened, it gradually dawned on him that the new treaty intended to take away, the beautiful Wallowas from him, and that he and all hi. followers were going to be put on areservation. So the old man arose from the table and from under hi, blanket he drew out the Book of MaAew. He grabbed the page, out of the book and tore them into thousands of pieces and threw them in the face, of the generals assembled there at the table, and walked out. Henry Harmon Spalding wrote in his diary, he said, "Old Chief Joseph has gone back to Egypt." But he much preferred the heathens to the white man's civilization with their false promises of brotherhood and fair play and equality. That's one of the great gripping moints of history, all right, when he saw that all the promise, were ju.t nothing but ascrap of paper, and the Wallowas were going to be lost to him after all.

(End of Side A)

SAM: Since we were talking about the Spa Idings, alittle bit of what you were telling me about Eliza Spalding, what was her role in the under taking of

LC: Well she was ateacher. Eliza Hart Spajding was avery brilliant girl in her own right. She was a studious woman, and abright girl, and was woman of great patience; otherwise she couldn't have gotten along with old Henry Harmon Spalding. Always she knew that she was not the pretty one, but she did know that pretty is as pretty does, and she certainly did very, very prettily. When she married Henry Harmon Spa lding after he had been rejected by Narcissa Prentiss Whitman because of his illegiti mate birth, she married him and educated him. He'd always had quite an inferiority complex because,in those days, nowadays we know it's just illegitimate parents and we put no stigma on it, in those days it was a great crime to be an illegitimate child. So she went with him to the great Lane Theological Seminary, and here they studied under the great Reverend Lyman Beecher. Lyman Beecher was the father of Harriet Beecher Stowe and also of Henry Ward Beecher. He ran the first station on the underground railway when, if the Negros could swim the Ohio River, the/ could come to Lyman Beecher's church and he'd hide them out in the basement of the church and the basement of his home. Then he could smuggle them across into Canada. He had a very great influence on Eliza Hart Spalding. She worked very, very hard to put her husband through school. She took in boarders; she had about five boarders all together. She boarded them for three dollars aweek,and she milked three oows to furnish butter andklk for the table. With this money that was enough to keep her husband there in stool. But not only did she do all this, in any free time she taught school herself and raised a little money that way.

But she was not contented with this. She wanted to improve herself, so she went to the great Lyman Beecher's classes and studied Hebrew and Greek and became quite proficient in them and could read the Bible in its original form. That was quite an accomplish ment for women of those times. She was highly skilled in all the household arts. She could weave clothing, she could make bread, she could make butter, make candles, do all the hundred and one things that were required of the women of those days. She could spin, card the wool, weave. On top of this she had some special talents. She was quite atalented artist,and the Catholic people who had come in had gotten out the Ladder to Heaven. They had ten rounds to the ladder, and these were of course the ten commandments. Well, Eliza Hart Spalding drew them anew ladder to Heaven, and she too put on the ten commandments, and she made the fiery furnace down below,and then Heaven was agorgeous place. The archangels were kicking the Pope out of Heaven,and he was tumbling down to earth in the pictures that she drew. She was the first visual aid, she was ahead of her times in wanting to teach them visual aids. So she drew pictures to illus trate the great Bible stories, of Adam and Eve and the Serpent, and the Garden of Eden, and the Picking of the Apple, Daniel and the Lion's Den, and the Fiery Furnace, Aesop, and all the old Bible stories were Illustrated. Some of those pictures that she made are extant, and they're in the museum over at Portland. The . . .

SAM: So this was for the Nez Perce Indians?

LC: Yes, that's the way she taught them. She taught the Bible stories by showing them the pictures, they could understand the pictures. She showed them stories of the Creation—how on the first all day, and the second day, and the third day. She had that in sequence. She took three young Indian girls into her home to teach them how to bake bread, how to wash and iron, and write and read. Mrs. Spa Iding herself developed tuberculosis, and there's always been the age old question of did she give the tuberculosis to the Nez Perces or would they have gotten it anyway from their contact with the whites! But at that time they didn't realize that she had tuberculosis. She was very, very patient, and she was well liked by all the Indians. Many of them have left the record that she was afine teacher and that they had liked Mrs. Spalding. She had agreat sense of yearning for beauty of various kinds. They tell how in the second house that they built, she whitewashed the walls inside to make it lighter and a little more cheerful. She only had three kinds of paint: brown, and black, and green. But with her green paint, she drew vines over the white walls to sort of decorate it, and probably she was remembering that the vines were symbolic of Christ-"I am the vine and ye are the branches." She drew many, many vines on the walls, on the whitewashed walls of the cabin there at Spalding.

SAM: She sounds like a very exceptional person.

LC: Yes, she was. She had to be or she couldn't have lived with the erratic, hard to get along with, Henry Harmon Spalding. But she kept it smooth. She was avery fine mother to the children, and we have the records in the lives of the Spalding children. They all spoke with great affection of the kindness and of the hard working mother she was. It was she who milked the cows and did all the work that had to be done to keep the family going.

SAM: Well what you're saying is Spalding himself sounds like, perhaps, a little unlikely to be the man of perseverance that it took to. .

LC: He was ahard working man. Ithink Spalding worked awfully hard,but he was just hard to get along with. He quarejiled with the other missionaries, and he believed in applying cat o' nine tails. He thought that if the Indians didn't obey the laws as he laid them down, it was all right to have them whipped. He didn't do so much whipping of them himself, but he commissioned other Indians to apply the lash-so many lashes for this and for that.

SAM: Do you think that corporal punishment like that was foreign to their own ways of doinj things?

LC: Idon't know if it was. They were used to fighting among themselves, of course, but Idon't know that they really applied the lashes. But the rules would be that certain ones would apply the lash to people who broke the laws as laid down. The laws were quite foreign to their way of doing things.

SAM: Well getting back to your father. . .

LC: Urn hum.

SAM: And his work. Do you think that the idea of civilizing the country would have been very important to him and the other early preachers, to bring civilization to the country and. . .

LC: Yes, Ithink so. Ithink that they were all quite dedicated, and they all had this dream that you had to bring Christianity to the corners of the earth, you know. And that that was the saving grace for the world was to hear the story of Jesus, to be converted and become Christians, and that that was their job, that's what they were out to do. I think all of them pretty much followed along that line.

SAM: Iwonder if when they talk about thlfiarly pioneer day. .. there being alot of lawlessness around too. . .

LC: Oh yes I'm sure of that. Someplace in Moscow Ithink there were five or six saloons. There were only twenty-five people living in the town, but they had something like five saloons and three churches. Sunday was wide open, that was the day you all came did your work. You worked during the week, but on Sunday you came to town and did your shop ping and did whatever celebrating was done. So that was kinda the way It was. They immediately set forth to keep the stores all closed on Sunday and not sell anything, and try to make them all go to church on Sunday, I suppose.

SAM: Do you think he would have been strongly opposed to drinking?

LC: Oh, Idofthink (chuckles) so. (chuckles) Idon't think so quite alittle of it himself, in his later years, anyway. But I suppose he went along with the customs of the day, but it was never any Ireland to take to take a few little drinks.

SAM: I know.

LC: It was never considered any crime. No.

SAM: Well, do you think that his preaching compared to the^^denominations, would 'have been more fire and brimstone'" less"? How much of afundamentalist would he have been, do you think?

LC: Oh, Ithink probably less because he wa. really pretty tolerant, and I think he wa. alittle more progre.sive than some of cicuit rider kind of people, you know. Ithink he had a lot more understanding of human nature, and Ithink he would be far less hellfire and brimstone, you know, than the fundamentalists of the very early days, Ithink.

SAM: Which of the churches would you say would be the more fundamentalist ones...

LC: Well I imagine these Dunkards were because you all wore bonnets, you weren't allowed to have your heads uncovered, and you had to dress with great simplicity and eat with great simplicity and severity, almost puritanical. I think they were much more so than the Presbyterians or the Baptists either. And of course the one great fundamental difference between the Baptists and the Presbyterians even at that day was the baptis mal rite. The Baptists wanted them to really be baptised in water and get right down in the water. Our church had always thought that sprinkling them or laying the wet hand on the forehead, that was enough. That it was the symbolism of it, rather than the actual dunking of them, you know.

SAM: Then after he had been here for awhile, he was called to Victoria, is that the story?

LC: Yes Victoria, B. C. And that was a big church, and of course in Victoria it's more England than England itself, and lots of Scoth people- Scotch Presbyterians. The Presbyterian church there was agoing concern. They had abig brick building at that time; it stood almost down along the harbor, close to the Empress Hotel, down close to the Strahcombe Hotel. It became a very choice building site, but it was avery much going concern because there were lots and lots of Scottish people there, and they've always been the foundation almost of the Presbyterian church.

SAM: Did that church burn down?

LC: Yes, uh huh. It burned down not too long ago, maybe ten or fifteen years ago, but it had occupied such a very choice building location, that right down close to the Empress Hotel. I imagine they built out farther now where there's more room to park, and so on. I haven't seen the new church.

SAM: What's the story of him meeting your mother?

LC: Oh yes, well my mother was graduated from Angela College, that was one of the first women's schools, private schools. It was an Episcopal school for girls. My mother was very good in mathematics,and she had won aprize for excellence in mathematics. They invited the young new minister of the town to come over and give the graduation speech to the girls and present the prizes and preside. So my father said he took a second look at her because in his nmtry the girls didn't know mathe matics; they kept them in ignorance, they didn't want them to know how to add. He took another look at this girl and he said, "That did it." He looked the second time and he decided that that was the girl for him. So that was the story that he liked to tell, anyway, (chuckles)

SAM: And then how did they come to come back down here?

LC: Well my father had, while he was hnf« organizing these churches, there was still free land here, and my fathelfnomesteaded the orginal place at the foot of Paradise Hill that we still own. Always he kept thinking he'd like to come back and try his hand at farming. After he married my mother, they were called to Goldendale,Washington, and they stayed there five years where he preached and established new churches at Centreville and Bickleton and the surrounding country. Then after his first two sons were born, he thought he ought *o go where there was land and where they could do some farming. So he came back to where he had his homestead, and where he had bought some other property and started farming.

SAM: He'd first come here in what year?

LC: Well he came here in 1880, and he came back in 1887-seven years later after he was married and had two boys, he came back to his farmland.

SAM: Now what, that amazing little story about, was brother had the seminary?

LC: Oh yes, lt was his brother, yes.

SAM: And the story about that and what it could have become?

LC: Ye, that, an interesting story. My father had an older brother who had come to California much eattter at the request of Dr. Scot who was the founder of San Fr.anci.co Theological Seminary. After he got it found ed, he looked around and he saw that he had no one with ahigh school education to enter his theological seminary. So he made atrip back to Scotland and Ireland, and here he met young John Gamble who was just graduated back there. He invited him to come, he said, "I need some one that will .tart secondary school and teach boys so I'll have someone to go to seminary." So Dr. John Gamble came to California, and he opened aschool for one became mother. This one that I'm think ing of, they called it Laurel Hall. It was aprivate stool for boys, it was amilitary academy. Among the boys that enrolled there wa. young Leland Stanford. Of course, he wa. the son of Governor leland Stanford, who was amulti-millionaire, arailroad man, made a fortune there and owned much.much of the land in California. The boyof student there. Goveronor Leland Stanford had .ent the boy there because he thought he needed some good Presbyterian discipline. There may have been alittle generation gap in tho.e years too. However, when the boy died he was overcome with grief and remorse, and he came to my Uncle John, and he offered'to endow the school. He said, "I will endow your and we will have agreat school where we will teach science and medicine. We'll teach everything here, and it'll be agreat school. But Governor Leland Stanford was quite afollower of John Star King; who was the great Unitarian minister of that day. Ithink that my Uncle John had afeeling that he would want him at this school too, to teach some good Unitarianism. My Uncle John and Dr. Scott, both of them, rejected any claim to teaching that. They would teach Jesus Chri.t, Him crucified and risen, and that only would they teach. So Governor Leland Stanford said he would beyond adoubt be able to find plenty of other people who would accept the offer. So Leland Stanford University was born, and the first president of course became David Star Jordan,who was adescendant of Reverend John Star King. He was related to him some way, Idon't know ju.t how. But the Star, see, carries down.

SAM: Do you think that your uncle would have objected to teaching .11 these other subjects as well as the religious one.?

LC: Well Ifctnk he felt it meant giving up some of the right of teaching Christianity. If he had to teach Unitarianism, he'd have to leave out the divinity of Christ. They retreated behind their own promise and their own Presbyterian covenant, that they would teach Jesus Christ, Him crucified and risen from the dead, and that only would they teach. So Ithink that that probably was it. You know, looking back on it you think that that was probably it because as some place in the history book it said, "They were pretty stubborn old men.' (chuckles)

SAM: Was your father born in Ireland?

LC: In Ireland. Yes, he was born in County Donegal.

SAM: What induced him to come to. . .

LC: Well he came because hi. older brother was already here. His older brother John was already in California and had the private school going and preparing kids for San Francisco Theological Seminary. Many of them went back to Princeton because it had agreat theological seminary too, Presbyterian. My Uncle John had an honarary Phd/from Princeton. It was given him by Princeton because he sent back so many well trained kids from his school in California. And that is an interesting little sidelight on it, all right.

BAH: You were saying that your mother found this country to be pretty uncivilized compared to what she... .

LCC: Well yes, it was for her,because she had taught in aprivate girls' school, and it was afar cry from the rigor, of pioneer life where you had no water, and no wood, and no central heat, no lights, no nothing. She hadn't been trained in the frontier way., and it was pretty hard. I'm sure it was plenty hard for her.

SAM: Did you say that she really idealized Victoria?

LC: Oh yes. Everything wonderful happened over there, of course. But maybe that is the way with all of us-it's all whaft went on when we were young and when we were little, those were the wonderful times, those were the good old days, you know. But Iknow that as agirl she had had many things that she couldn't have in a pioneer settlement.

SAM: Well Victoria is such a civilized. . .

LC: Yes that's right. They were great form, the four o'clock tea.and the social amenities were alot more exacting over there than they were here. And my mother loved to read, and they had libraries there where you could go and have book, and thing, to read, and my mother loved to read, and it was pretty hard in a frontier wilderness.

SAM: How do you think she faced her feelings of lacking what she. ..

LC: Well she. . .

SAM: What did she to do overcome the. . .

LC: Well Ithink she just had to work so darn hard to get u. all raised, with seven children you didn't have much time to philosophize, (chuckles) You didn't have much time to really know how you felt. You just simply had an awful job getting enough food on the table to feed 'em and get our them ready and off to school. But mother always set us down after supper by the light of alittle coal oil lamp and tried to help us with our lessons. So she knew how important it was to try to learn.

SAM: Did she read to you?

LC: Oh yes, she read to us nearly every night* we'd have reading of some kind.

SAM: All kinds of things?

LC: Yes, all kinds of things, yes. She read us Little Women and the Lamplighter by alittle coal oil lamp. And I inherited alove of reading by that, and as alittle girl and not able to read Ithought, oh if Icould just only get to I could read,then I could see what came next in those stories. So I was real anxious and ambitious to get to learn to read.

SAM: So it was probably your mother that instilled the love of reading.

LC: Yes, that's right.

SAM: Wellwhen your father callback here with your mother was he still preaching or did he. . .

LC: No. That's right. He started in to farm. And he wasn't very good at it either. He was illy prepared-he was illy prepared. The neighbors laughed because he took an oil can, there were some little counter-sunk bolts on amower, and he was trying to oil the counter-sunk bolts. He thought they were oil holes-that's all he knew about it. And he was just very at taking care of stock or any kind of machinery. He iust was equipped to do it. Yea, that's the way it was. It takes a special knack, I think, to run the machinery and to farm, and he certainly didn't have it. And on top of that his health declined—he wasn't well. So it was atough go round, Ican assure you.

SAM: Well what are some of your earliest memories^when you were just alittle bit of a thing?

LC: Oh, well Iremember how important it was to get a package from Victoria, apackage from grandma. Grandma in Victoria would send us packages, and that was agreat event because at Christmastime there were always bunches of holly. Lots of holly grows there, and they'd send big boxes full of sprays of holly. And that was awonderful event. There'd be little things from the Chinese stores, and Japanese stores,that we wouldn't see in this country at all. There'd be little china teacups and little boxes of tea and fancy little things that had come from the stores. We were like our mother-we thought everything good and fine must have come from Victoria. Those were important things to us.

SAM: Did you grow up in the same little house, or did he build another place when he came back? Where was it. . .

LC: Yes, he built abigger house after he came back, when he brought Mama and the boys home, then he built ahouse for them. But it was on the same place, but it wasn't the original little cabin where he'd lived.

SAM: Where did you come in the order of the. . .

LC: Oh, I was next to the youngest, Yea, the four boys were pretty good sized when Iwas born. My brother Gus is ten years older than Iam, and Iwas next to the youngest.

(End of Side B)

SAM: When you think about what the place was like when you were little and growing up, what was it. . .

LC: Weil, of course I remember the wildflowers the most 'cause we had and that was agreat event after the long, cold winters, you know. We loved the coming of the spring and going out to pick the first butter cups, and the dog-toothed violets, and the bluebells-we called them bluebell.-they were wild crocuses. And the little wild cyclamen, and back in the deeper woods there'd be lots and lot. of trillium; they were beautiful. And little yellow violet, coming in the .pring, and that was the high time of the year, was the coming of the spring flowers. And there were many, many birds around-lots of robin, and lots of bluebirds in those days, and jenny wren, making nests in the house,and every tree in the orchard-and around full of songbird, of variou. kinds. Those are the things Ithink we all remember about our childhood, was the great love of nature and°all the thing, around u.. And wild lady slippers-little white lady slippers-the little pink lady slipper, grew in the deep woods too. My mother knew the names of so many of the wildflowers, and she taught us the names of the wildflowers. She was always thrilled when we brought in the first buttercups and the first of every kind that marked the progress of spring on the land. That was the fine time of the year with all of us.

One thing the early pioneers did, they were great on setting out fruit tree, becau.e they were hungry for fruit. My father had abig apple orchard, and abig prune orchard, and abig pear orchard, way more than anybody could posibly eat. And there was no market, there was no refrigeration in those days, you couldn't ship it, so in the fall the fruit just lay in bushels and bushels on the ground. Most or it decayed, but all the neighbors came and carried away apples and prunes and pears glore. There was agreat abundance of the lovely fresh fruit for everybody.

SAM: Did the wildlife come and a. ..any prairie chickens in those days,-and Inever see them anymore. There prairie chickens, there were grouse, Chinese pheasants, and Idon't Paradise Hill now. Ithink the deer have improved since the early days. Maybe it's because ha. improved, and they have got them started and growing again. But the deer come down now and feed in our garden, and Idon't remember deer coming down/Some when we were Young children. But maybe that's because we had more cattle around, and other animals that ate up the forage.

SAM: Were there wild animals that you saw, though, beside, the birds? were badgers, and ground squirrels, anithat sort of thing, rabbitswild rabbits-the cottontails. And coyotes-many coyotes. But Idon't remember the deer coming like we have now on Paradise Hill.

SAH: What about hunting? Did.

LC: Oh, my father wouldn't allow guess that's why we all carry on awar against the hunters on the Paradise Hill, 1a still protecting this end of it. Isuppose we got that from our dad because he was very set against hunters coming on the place to hunt anything. So Ithink that's where we inherited it.

SAM: Gus, too? He doesn't hunt?

SAM: Well, what do you think your father's were, that he wasn't doing the kind of thing that so many people did?

LC: Well, he thought they were too lovely, too lovely to kill. He thought anice big chunk of beefsteak was alot better than apiece of deer meat, and Istill think that's true. Ithink we all grew up not wanting to kill the lovely things. And we still are that way, all our family. We've spent all our life trying to protect them-to keep them from being shot.

SAM: That's really interesting.

LC: Yes, Ithink so too, and that why we're leaving the home place to the Nature Conservancy so the deer and the birds and the things will have some place of refuge. We think our parents would like that real wellto know that there was one place where they wouldn't be hunted, wflere they could go and feed and be safe-have arefuge from it all.

SAM: When you say that the family had ahard time, that it was tough going, what did that mean as far as privation goes, what did you have to do without that w.ould have been nice to have had?

LC: Oh, just lots of things. There was the wet harvest of '93,when the grain all sprouted in the field, and nobody had decent shoes, warm coats, warm mittens, warm things to wear. Iwasn't born 'till 1900, but Ialways could have used afew better things to wear, better clothes-warm shoes and, overshoes and coats and hats and clothing. That seemed to be what we were always short of.

SAM: Did your mother have to do slot of sewing?

LC: Well she wasn't very good at the sewing. She did have asewing machine, and she did make over things, but she wasn't real good at it or quick with it. We always were in need of some kind of clothing to wear, it seems to me. And with seven of them to take care of and not very much income, it was plenty tough going, Ithink. That's why the packages from Grandma were so important.

SAM: How much of the land was cleared up?

LC: Oh, most of the time there was about ninety acre, of the 160. Now there's more; Ithink there are 120, something like that now, but for along time it was Just ninety acres. And my father did farm acouple of other farm., but the tough year, made it hard, and we never were very affluent.

SAM: Did he do any preaching during this time at all?

LC: OKjust in emergencies he once in awhile performed awedding or afuneral for some old time friends or something. But he really didn't do much, no. He was sick alot and wasn't able to do much.

SAM: What about your older brothers, did they start working the place for. ..

LC: Oh yes, they started in real when they were . . Uncle Gus, when did you first dtive a plow?

GUS GAMBLE: (Chuckles)

LC: Were you eight years old or ten years old? G G: About ten years old.

LC: Yea, when they were about all went out in the field and drove plows and teams,and they'd go to. ..

GG: I was on the walkin* plow before Iwas ten.

LC: Yea.

GG: Four horses and ajammer, you couldn't handle it. But you could take two horses and awalkin' plow or two horses on aharrow. You'd get nothing done, but it was teaching ya

LC: Yes, you were learning how. And that's the way it was.

SAM: Gus, I want to talk to you about that when I come back, 0. K.?

GG: Yea.

SAM: I'll talk to you about the early day. and u.ing the plow, and that business.

LC: He'll tell you tell you all about the horseshe knows all about it. (chuckles) Sure.

SAM: Well, how did they bring up glrls in

LC: Oh we just, you know, we just all kinda brought up ourselves. We went to school, and .chool was never any chore for me-I loved to go-I just cried if Icouldn't go-I loved to go. Iremember the bad parts of it; Iremember sitting in the mud and how cold Iwas,and how muddy Iwas, but Ididn't want to miss aday of it. Iloved to learn-it was no bother for me. Iwould sit and I'd listen to the other clas.e. recite, and I would know what they were talking about. Icould learn their lessons and own too. And when the teachers were too busy, when Igot alittle older I'd gather up the little children and take 'em out in the hall and teach em to read. And Ithought if Iever got old enough, I'd be ateacher, and I'd teach the kids to read and to spell. And that's wh.t Idid. But it was no hardship on me to go to school-I just loved it. The rest/the time at home house. My sister and Iwould have a Playhouse out under the crabapple trees. We would make little dishes, and we would have some dolls, and we would do all the things that our mother did in the house. We would pretend we were chuning butter, and we'd .ew dresses for the dolls, and we'd dress 'em, and we'd make little Pies out of the mud-mud pies for them, and decorate up cakes and that sort of thing. Picking the wildflower, and playing in the playhouse were what we did mostly in the summertime. Then in the fall school started.

It was amile to walk to school, and amile to walk back home,so we didn't have much free time left after we got that done. There would te spelling contests, and we would study for the spelling we could spell every word. Our mother would sit by the lamp and pronounce word, for u. way late at night we could spell every word in the spelling book and not make amistake. That wa, the highpolnt of our lives, would be spelling down on Fridaytftemoon. They would .11 get up and spell down, and if you mised aword you had to take your seat. And there was much rivalry among the kid. to be able to spell well. They had coring bees where you'd see who could find the answers quickest to the arithmetic problem,; and there was lots of rivalry along the line of that, awas considered very poor sportsmanship-it wasn't cricket-to count on your fingers or to make little mark, on the board as you added figures. You had to do it in your mind instantaneously, not be counting as you went along. And that was great fun too.

SAM: Were you expected to work around the house much when you were kid?

LC: Well, we were invited to, but that didn't mean we did much of it. I didn't like to wash dishes, like to wipe I wasn't much interested in the work. I did go out and hoe in the garden pretty much cause my dad made me, and Icould go out ateam for him and bring in the hay, drive the hay wagon for him when he pitched on hay. But Iwasn't so good at the housework, and Iwasn't very much interested in it.

SAM: Did you get to go to Moscow every now and then, as agirl?

LC: Nov very seldom. Iwent in two or three times when Ihad to have a tooth pulled. Iwent to the circus acouple times a, alittle girl, but Ididn't really go into town much until rgraduated the eighth grade and went in to go to high school. Otherwise, we stayed out on the farm pretty closely.

SAM: What did you think of town as agirl?

LC: Wellit was quite anadventure to get to go to town. It took about all day. You went in awagon and hoSif'and it took about all day. Ididn't have any real desire to go to town-I didn't care much about it. Iwas content just to stay home and play with the dolls and that sort of thing. We did go to afew circuses. Our dad would generally take us to the circus or to the the fall we got to go to the fair. Those were about the only times. Ididn't feel much need for the going to town. I never felt a crying need to go.

SAM: I was wondering, what do you think difference, if you were playing with then you weren't doing what your brother, were doing, and Iwas wondering how different the boy. were brought up than the girls were brought up?

LC: Well the boy. were busy with the field work, always. My father did rent some land when the boy. were like young boys, and they drove the teams in the field, and we had threshing in the fall-they would thresh it. The boys often went out and worked for other neighbors, being as we had four boys, why often the other neighbors hired them because they were the best workers in the entry. They could turn out the work. Gus can still, Gus can tell you all about how hard he worked, and how he loaded the great sacks of grain and brought 'em in, you know, and how as ayoung boy he rode the lead team on the binder for the neighbors. They did the real hard work all right. Anytime Iwent out on the hayfield, is after my brothers were grown and gone from the farm.

SAM: So then do you think then that girl, were often ,heltered?

LC: Oh yes. We stayed at home and in the house, and my mother would never let us go out and work for other peopte. Many of the neighbor girls went to town a girl,. Many of them went to the McConnell house and worked there as servants in the home, but my mother would never let any of us go-we weren't allowed to go^Sown and work. So we just stayed home and helped we could and played. That was the main thing. As soon as I got old enough to read Idid lots of reading. Iwould just read anything Icould lay my hands on-I just read everything there was to read.

SAM: Well how do you think that girls were treated a. compared to boys? I think part of what I'm thinking about is, you know, when they talk about how with women', lib and all that about how women', role, should change.

LC: well my mother alway. had agreat, my mother wa, very smart woman, ?eal brilliant woman, and he always believed in women's rights, you know. And of course, Idaho go women's suffrage real early, and my mother always went to town to vote. As far back as Ican remember, my motherfalways go in to vote at the elections. She was agreat believer in women's was rights because she was smart and educated, and Ithink that made alot of difference. She thought that women had just a, much right a, men, and ,he wa, agreat prohibitionist. She was' Ig-.Ss? alcohol in any form. She was very well read, and so Ialways grew up with the feeling, you know, that women wer. equally important. At one time as alittie girl, when Iwas ten, eleven, twelve.I thought I'd be alawyer. Ithought I'd be the first lawyer to graduate from the University of Idah,.Nobody had graduated then, and Ithought lawyer. And Imight have if I'd had enough money to go to law school. But going out to tfech was a stepping stone to go on and further your education. You could get a job with one year at normal school, and you could go out to teach. So I settled for that, and then I never quite got back into the legal field after that. But as a little girl I thought I'd like to be alawyer 'cause I'd be able to help bring some women's rights into the world.

SAM: That was part of why you wanted to be a lawyer?

LC: Yes, yes. I would help then to see that women got educated and would get would out and vote and'show a little emancipation and that sort of thing.

SAM: So then your mother's belief in it wa, really very active.

LC: Oh ye,. My mother thought it wa, very important.and ,he wouldn't miss going out to vote. And she was very well read and was very decided in her opinion, about who should be elected and who shouldn't and who she wa, going to vote for, and she knew the i„ue, of the day, what they were all about. Almost my first memory would be of Mama having to leave us to go to town to vote. That was impressed on my mind because I dn't want her to go, I wanted her to stay home, but she would go to vote. And my father wa, alway, taking part in politics of some kind, and that was one thing he encouraged her is to get out now out and vote. He^Hke to tell her who to vote for, but he wanted her to be sure to get in and cast her vote. And my mother always did-my mother always went to town to vote. To see Santa Claus and to vote were the twice a year when she just had to go to town.

SAM: To see Santa Claus?

LC: Uh, huh. She went up to see Santa Clau, for there'd be some Christmas in the home for us kids.

SAM: Well do you know^hffie ever took part in any of the early activities to bring women's rights to. . .

LC: No. My mother didn't. She didn't have time with seven kids and not to do with, she just didn't have time to take part in any of the political thing, going on, but ,he did get out to vote-she never failed to go and cast her vote for things. But she never took any active part in women's clubs or that sort of thing, never.

SAM: Did she encourage you to have acareer?

LC: Oh yes, she thought that was fine, that was good to gotout and teach school or do something. Teaching wa. about the only vocation open to girl, in those day,. It was about just the only thing women could do, although Ihad had adream that Iwould be alawyer. Ithought that wa, something women could do. And in high school Iwas always on debate teams and things, so Ithought that would be good. My husband said he should have known better than marry me because he'd heard me debate, and he might have known that adebate would go on the rest of our lives. So he doesn't think women should study things like that. And Ithink maybe he has apoint too. Ithink mayje he has apoint that as it may.

SAM: How did you feel about it when you were young and wanting to see women get rights, did you feel that the men were really being unfair and dosed minded about it.

LC: Yes Jdld Ithought so. Yea. Ireally thought so. My father had been born in the old county, and he always told about how the women there couldn't read or write, and they were uneducated, and that they that kind of made me all the more determined that Ithought women should get out and take aplace of their own, and do things on their own, in their own name and their own right. Istill think that's right.

SAM: Well so do I.

LC: Yea, Istill think that's right. And Ithink probably we inherited that from Mama because she always thought that the women should exercise their God given abilities and do what they could. And Ithink that that was forward looking for those?"ill right-that was very forward looking for those days. And that probably wa, becau.e my mother had been edu cated too and so on and so forth. Ithink that that helped.

SAM: Do you think that like some women she would have wanted to herself, if she could have gotten out in the world and been. ..

LC: Yes Ithink so. Ithink had she had the opportunity she could have done it too, you know. Because Iknow at one time, she said when time, had been real hard, ,he had even suggested to my father that she get ajob teaching the little country school, but?Ke wouldn't stand for that - women shouldn't do things like that; they should stay home and take care of^the children. But my mother wa, askilled teacher and Ithink she-d done a very good job.

SAM: Did both of them identify with one political party?

LC: Yes, they were both Republicans, uh huh. Yes, my father, he always thought the Republicans were the people. My mother wa# kind of a prohibitionist. Whenever there was aprohibition party she thought they were all right, but my father always associated the Democrats with hard times. When Grover Cleveland had been president they'd had apanic, and my father associated the hard time, with the Democrat, and the proaperou, time, with the Republican,. So he was all for, and high tariff, my father wa, agreat believer high tariffs. And that all went along with the Republican party in those days.

SAM: What did he think about free silver? Do you know?

LC: Well Ican't remember that far back, but he was against Bryan, I know, because Bryan, I think was running in 1908 against Teddy Roosevelt. I can remember me going to school and the teacher wanted to know if Mama had gone in to vote, and I said, -Oh, yes." "But who she going to vote for?" Well, I wasn't sure, I wasn't just sure, but I said, .Veil I know going to vote for Bryan 'cause if Bryan gets in we're all going to starve to death." I'd heard them saying that-if Bryan got in we'd have hard times, and we'd starve to death. So I said, "They're not going to vote for Bryan." they were voting for whoever was running against Bryan, I guess it was Taft, wasn't it?

SAM: Or Roosevelt.

GG: I believe it was Roosevelt.

LC: Roosevelt, yea.

LC: No.

SAM: Well he ran enough.

LC: Yes, he ran enough. Now let me see, now in 1908, Ican remember that very well, now it must have been Taft 'cause you see four years later would have been 1912.

GG: Yea.

LC: Wilson, declared, 1916 they declared war, he went back and they kept us out of war, it was Taft. It wa, Taft he was running against. Roosevelt was the outgoing president!. Roosevelt went in in 1904.

SAM: Well what was your mother's feeling about prohibition, that she was for it? How did. . .

LC: Well yes, she thought people shouldn't be money, it took all sense of responsibility away from them, and she thought they should close the saloon, and make it harder for them to get. to do the drinking, to do too much drinking.

SAM: well did thi, cause much conflict between he and her husband.who didn't mind a drink now and then?

LC: Well yes, it was aproblem-it wa, more or less aproblem, right, yea. But my father was asick man, and Iimagine that alittle whiskey gave him alittle feeling of strength or of, you know. And in hi, old age, when he was old Iknow my mother thought it wa, all right for him to go and have something hot to drink becauae there wa little that could bring him comfort. So Ithink she got more tolerant of it in her older years.

SAM: Well Iimagine she really would have approved when prohibition came into this county.

LC: Oh yes, she was greatly for that, uh huh, yea she wa, greatly for that, yes, Yes Taft was elected in 1908,because Howard Taft, you see served 'till 1912 ,and then, it'd be four years, and then Wilson mu,t have gone in becauae in 1916 they ran him on the platform "He kept u, out of warhe kept u, out of war." And then he re-elected when we de clared war. And here omething interesting-I remember so well the day war was declared in April. Iwent to school that morning and on the blackboard they had big signs up, 'The United State, Enter, the so many thousand men are called. And Iwent into the history class and fine old Reverend Horse was the teacher, and he had the morning Spokesman Review there. He held up his hands, and they were kind of and he said to me,"Lola will you read the president's declaration of war?" And Iread it through, and Ican remeW it just like yesterday, those closing words: „ said, "The time has ,"I read. Vhen America is privileged to spend her blood for those principles that gave her birth. God helping her, she can do no other." That wa, hi, declaration of war. And of the boy, who ,at there and listened that morning, twoof them were to die. Holt Gushing died on the Italian front and 'ew tt Barns in the Argonne Korest. And Ihad entered school with kids, and I graduated with aclas, of forty, and there were only twelve boys the Out of 120, half of them maybe had been bovs and and there were twelve boys in the graduating class. were all in the war, uh huh. But it just seems like yesterday too.

1:00 - Lola's father founds the Third Presbyterian Church in Idaho

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Segment Synopsis: After graduating from the San Francisco Theological Seminary, her father comes to Moscow area in 1880 to start the third Presbyterian church in Idaho, and the third church in Moscow. Support from Ladd banking interests in Portland. The first Presbyterian baptism. McConnell meets him in Lewiston; they joke with the Ruddy girls about marrying an Irishman.

5:00 - Sharing churches and ministry in Moscow

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Segment Synopsis: Baptists gave other denominations use of their church. Organ music at early services. Father was subsidized by the American Board of Missions, and there were few regular members of the church. His first wedding ceremony. A team of horses drowned crossing Lapwai Creek in the spring. He ministered to families during a diphtheria epidemic; a coal oil remedy.

13:00 - Social aspects of the church

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Segment Synopsis: His preaching was traditional. He had a brilliant memory, thorough training, and knew much of the Bible by heart. He wasn't much concerned with social issues. Sunday church was the social event of the week.

18:00 - Pennsylvania Dutch and predestination

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Segment Synopsis: Many early Presbyterians were Pennsylvania Dutch. Father did not believe in predestination. Social teaching of brotherly love.

22:00 - Religious relations with the Nez Perce Tribe

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Segment Synopsis: The powerful religious outlook of the Nez Perce towards nature: they were the first ecologists. Nez Perce said that they never fought about religion as the whites did. Spalding's teachings divided the Nez Perce into Christian and non-Christian, treaty and non-treaty, a difference which still exists. Joseph tears up his book of Matthew at the treaty of 1863, when he realizes the Wallowas have been betrayed.

30:00 - Eliza Spalding Educating the Nez Perce

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Segment Synopsis: Eliza Hart Spalding. She helped educate her husband, Henry Harmon Spalding, who had inferiority feelings because he was illegitimate. They both studied under Reverend Lyman Beeacher at the Lane Theological Seminary—the father of Harriet Beecher Stowe, he had the first underground rail road for escaped slaves. She worked to put her husband through school. She was very accomplished in household arts. She taught the NezPerce by drawing pictures to illustrate Bible stories. She took Indian girls into her home to teach them. Did she give the Nez Perce tuberculosis? She was well liked by them. Her love of beauty and her hard work. Spalding was hard to get along with,and believed in using the lash for breaking of his laws.

39:00 - Spreading Christianity in Moscow; Presbyterian verses Baptists

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Segment Synopsis: Spreading Christianity. Moscow, with five saloons for a handful of people,needed civilizing. Her father wasn't much of a fundamentalist, compared to the Dunkards. The difference between Presbyterians and Baptists was over baptising.

43:00 - Family in San Francisco

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Segment Synopsis: Father meets mother as he hands out diplomas at a Victoria graduation. He returns to his Moscow homestead in 1887 with two sons. His brother John ran Laurel Hall, part of the San Francisco Theological Seminary. Leland Stanford attended the school, and after he died, his father offered to endow it as Stanford University; but John refused, opposed to Unitarian influences.

55:00 - Difficulties of frontier life

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Segment Synopsis: Her mother found frontier life hard, with a background of Victoria amenities. She loved to read and read to the children. Her father was ill-suited to farming. Christmas packages from Grandma in Victoria.

60:00 - Life on the family farm

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Segment Synopsis: Spring wildflowers, birds and wild animals on the farm. Father's fruit orchard yielded far more than family or neighbors could use. Few deer. Father was completely opposed to hunting, and the family still is; they are leaving their homestead to Nature Conservancy. The family lacked clothing. The boys started farming at ten.

70:00 - Life as a young girl

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Segment Synopsis: Lola loved school and looked forward to teaching. At home she played house. Spelling contests and ciphering bees. She did little housework. She went to town rarely, to circuses and the dentist. The girls in the family weren't allowed to work out, but the boys worked out very hard.

77:00 - Women's rights and careers

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Segment Synopsis: Mother strongly believed in women's rights, and always went to town to vote. As a young girl Lola wanted to be the first lawyer to graduate from Idaho, to help emancipate women. Mother was unable to participate In political activities or women's clubs but approved of her girls seeking careers. Teaching was the only career open to women then. Her father believed that women belonged in the home, and this made Lola even more determined.

85:00 - Political views in 1908 and World War I

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Segment Synopsis: Parents were Republican. Father associated Democrats with hard times. They said that if Bryan was elected in 1908, the people would starve. Mother believed in prohibition. Lola was asked to read Wilson's declaration of war to the high school class. Two of the boys in the class would die; only twelve boys graduated in her class of about sixty who had started.

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