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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: July 26, 1974 Interviewer: Laura Schrager

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ALFRED ERICKSON: My folks come from Minnesota in the year of 1892. And they come out because my mother had sent out money to her nephew to buy this place which belonged to a fellow by the name of Kahn. I don't remember his first name. Because Kahn was a Civil War veteran and he didn't care to stay back there in that snow belt you know, and he wanted to get out of there so heAwanted to sell.Anyway, John Berg, my mother's nephew, had a place right beside the Hog Meadows, on the east side of the Hog Meadows. John Berg's place. Well he made the deal. My dad didn't have a cent. In that property. It was ill my mother's money. And anyway,the old man, he was just about, he was telling about, that he was about to leave Ma at the station.No, on the train.He was about to jump off of the train after the train got started. Coming out west. And ma had to talk to him and get him kind of cooled down. So she finally got him cooled enough that he want and sat down in the seat. Set there til they come clear to Troy.

MAY LeMARR: I didn't know that.

AE: Yeah. Well I wasn't born yet at that time, I was born in 1893. They'd been there a year. And then they had to , the house that I was born in, it was sitting way over on the north side. And on the west side, northwest side of the place. And that had, they had a fireplace in the back. I remember that log house.It had a fireplace just like that, only it was made out of rock. And then they had their big room here, ^ou know, this was the big end. Then in between, then at the next end was ^ barn. They had a place there big enough for two horses and a couple of cows.Then they had a haymow right up over it. Well they used this middle place to pile up wood in. To keep it dry so that it was built something like what they had up at Bovill then.That Warren's built on that meadow up there. It was built in here, you know, log house and then over here another log house. Then they had the full roof over the both places, don't you see? So it made it pretty nice. Well anyway, they only lived there about three or four years, then they decided they were going to build a house. So they went to work and they built a house, the folks. That is, my dad help you know. And then they built the house. Then after the house was built, then we moved down there. Well the place up where I was born, that sit there til practicallyArotted down. Well, the old man tore the bam down 'cause that stuff ran out in the field. And we had a field right up on that side hill there. So we tore that down so we could make a bigger field. Just about where the plant is there. Remember they used to have the plane?

LENA JUSTICE: Yeah.

AE: God, we used to grow some wonderful pie plants there. Rhubarb, you know. Well anyway, there was a lot of work there. There was no fence. Kahn didn't have no cattle, didn't have no horses. So he just let the sheep men run over his place and they didn't give him nothing. But he didn't care. And he was there, hefAgur^ on staying there til he proved up. But then he got disgusted and thought he would just sell out and get five hundred dollars. That's what the folks put up. And that was too much money.

LS: How many acres was that?

AE: 136 acres. There was a fraction in that place there. So that's what my dad was awfully disappointed. I couldn't blame him.Into a wood country like that there, just timber and hard winters.You had to go out pret'near every day or you would be snowed a road. Well, anyway, finally got a fence made around the place there and then he got to plowing up a little of the meadow. Put it into timothy, clover, we used to raise some wonderful wild hay there. Gee whiz, beautiful wild hay. Then the old man got thafi so, then he built a big barn. He built a barn that will hald about 35,40 ton of hay. And you know, the hay was always saleable in the wintertime there. £ know a lot of fellows around there had a lot of cattle. So the old man could always sell a bunch of hay there. He never was stuck with it. So he made pretty good on the hay. Then he done a little work on the county road. He worked on that, but you know, in later years it become a state road, don't you know. State highway. That was another pretty good thing. Usually get in about three months work in the summertime on the roads, what they call the bounty roads. Built by the county. My dad was the one that helped build the road into Collins. NOt into Collins, but into the Warren Meadow. Bovill Meadows. Now the road used to go around by what they called the Horse Ranch. That goes south of Bovill and then it goes to the forks of the Potlatch. You know where the forks of the Potlatch is? Well at the forks of the Potlatch was a family living there by the name of Carlson. Carlson was the first man to run the post office up there. And he named it Janesville. That was established as Janesville. Well, he run that post office for several . It made it for my folks to go,'cause it was quite a ways over that to the forks of the Potlatch. So ...

LS: Was there anything else to Janesville besides the post office?

AE: Well they didn't have a ston, there. But I'll get around to that. Then after a couple of years, then the post office was changed to Hog Meadows. To Heinsley. Heinsley owned that,main part of the meadow. And he built a nice big house there and he had the biggest barn too. Well, then he decided that he would build on a little store building, right next to the house on the Hog Meadows there. Heinsley. Make it look like a store, don't you know. You know how they used to make them fronts on the stores there. Well, he wanted to start in a little grocery store there. Which he did. And got the post office, well then that was a little money coming in^all the time. And then he put in a few groceries, well there was a lot of^homesteaders around in there, they probably didn't have so far to go for their groceries you see. That made it nice. So then Heinsley had that til the time got ready to sell out. And when it was ksold out, then Lawrence, G.R. Lawrence, the other side of Helmer, he wanted to get the Janesville post office. So they moved it from there to Lawrence's place. And then Russ Lawrence built the store too. So he got in a bunch of groceries and he done pretty good in the store business there. And that's the way it went. And the last place that Janesville wounded up with Lawrences. Then they changed post office and then they put it up at Helmer. There is where they moved the post office but then it was changed to the name of Helmer. Helmer post office. Janesville was done away with down.at Lawrences.

LS: Janesville moved three times?

AE: Well that's once, it moved over there once. To Marshall's twice. Janesville at Lawrences was three times.Three times it moved. So but I don't remember, I remember when the old man would drive down there to Janesville there at the Hog Meadows and get the mail, I remember that. But outside of that, but the people, it would be no use to mention the people living there on these places would it?

LS: Oh yeah. Mention the early homesteaders. Shouldn't you go along as the early kids come along?

AE: That wouldn't be necessary, would it? Children being born.

LS: I'm thinking of the homesteaders that actually came there.

LJ: Brothers and sisters he has.

LS: I thought maybe we could get homesteaders first and then get into the family. Unidentifed Voice: About the people that were living around there that were shopping and getting their mail in that Janesville and then over at the other place, Helmer, and then Lawrences, the people that lived around All of the people that homesteaded and come in there at that time, when they come in.

LS: Just around Hog Meadows there.

AE: Well now, the Hog Meadows that I was telling you, there were three people living there. There was Heinsley, there was Marshall, there was Hopkins, there was the three that lived on the Hog Meadows.And John Berg, my cousin, he was on the east end of the meadows. That's, like if you've come from Helmer up through Hog Meadows. That's a pretty, long,big meadow there. Well, it's right up in that east corner where my cousin homesteaded, John Berg. Now I don't think there would be, well I forgot to name some of those living way back in the woods. Tnen the other people that right around where we lived there was it began with was Jim Kelly, he was on the north end. Jim Kelly. Austin Justice,he was on the north side too,but on the west. And now I don't know about the King Meadows, they claim there was a fellow by the name of King that homesteaded down the King Meadows. I don't know if that's true. I don't know as anybody know anything about that.

LJ: How about Acres?

AE: Acree, he come in there last, don't you know. He come in there last. Well there's one, two three.

LJ: Tom Shane?

AE: Tom Shane, didn't ownjland. He just rented. Theodore Fold was the owner. And Theodore Fold bought it from Cook. That's the man that owned the Shea Meadows. And no, Shea was there for about 4,5, 6 years. And rented from Fold. Fold was the owner. And our place was the only place up there that never had a mortgage. And never had a mortgage on our place. All the other places had mortgage except Acree.

LJ: How 'bout the Bronsons?

AE: Well Bronson was owned by Bronson there you know. His place, you remember that fence up there at the Bronson as you're coming out on the meadow. Well that was the line right there. Of Bronson that homesteaded there,you know he come down to the old man, joining the old man you know.

LS: Do you know how Hog Meadows got its name?

AE: Yeah. Fellow name of Nichols that live now, and I see in this book, the Galloway brothers was the ones that go up the biggest herd of hags in there to root the camas out of the ground on that Hog Meadows. But my dad said that a fellow by the name of Nichols, and he lived down on Texas Ridge, he was the fellow that brought the hogs in there. YOu see, that's mixed up too. My dad...

LS: It got its name because he brought in a big herd of hogs?

AE: Yeah, he put two or three hundred head of hogs up there. Let them summer up there and work on that, you know, that camas grew just like an onion. God, it grows that bih.And it's pretty good to eat stuff.The Indians lived on that they made bread out of that.

UV: They eat the root and the fruit too?

AE: Yeah. Well they grow like an onion. They had it growing on to^p on it. Prettiest flower you ever seen. Purple-blue. That was sure fine. I wish that camas was there, by gosh, I'd go and root out some, (laughs)

LS: Did you eat that a lot as kids?

L: I tasted it.

ML: It's kind of greasy.

AE: It's kind of a gummy like, it wasn't what you'd call good to eat. But then, if a person knew how to fix the Indians knew how to fix it, how to cook it. They baked it. And it made good bread

LS: Would you see Indians up there?

ML: Oh yes.

LJ: Used to camp on our folks' place. Early in the morning they'd be out there digging camas.(laughs)Dad had to chase them off many a times.

LS: Would you kids go out and play with the m?

LJ: Oh yeah, we'd go and see 'em. We'd go to their place, their tipis and they even offered us something to eat.

ML: I don't remember that. That was before my time, I guess.

LJ: You were...

ML: The only that I remember about Indians, they come place and get water from our well. Theu had one of these canvas sacks, they'd fill that. And get water. And they would go.

UV: When I was young, I can remember siting on an apple box on a table and my grandmother was out milking the cows and she come in with two buckeTfi of milk, like this, and you could see her tromping way down the window there up to the house and there'd be snow that deep, you know. And the first thing, she'd come in, she'd strain milk and give me a big glass of warm milk to drink.(laughs) I was an orphan.

AE: Well that's about all I know to tell about the thing out there.

LJ: Go on to the Bovills.

ML: They were pretty famous people.

LJ: They started a store up there.

AE: Yeah, at Bovill, of course Warrens didn't have no store.They didn't even have a post office there. So of course, Bovill, they were from rich people. They were from high society in England. You know of Mrs. Bovill was related to the king of England? You seen the picture of here, didn't you?

LS: Was he a count?

UV: Remittance man.

ML: I should have brought my bookAI guess for reference about the Bovills.

LS: Do you remember them personally?

AE: Oh yeah, because we traded there.

LS: You'd go up there and trade?

AE: Oh yes. We traded there quite a bit.

LS: What kind of store did they have?

AE: Grocery. Some dry goods. Such as men's clothing, shoes.

LJ: Yardage.

UV: Tea and coffee and sugar,

LJ: Bovill was quite a place at one time too.

AE: Sure after they started in town, why then it built up to quite a ...

LJ: Probably wouldn't think it now, would you?

AE: But it's God dang dead looking now, don't you know it?The town of Bovill is a fright. Well, you can imagine the amount of people that was working there for the Potlatch Lumber Company. That's over 1200 to 1500 men there year 'round, That there is quite a payroll around there.But now, God a man would starve to death there now. Was you in many of the places when you was up there, Bill? Go in the taverns? Let's see, there's two taverns there. No, there's three.

LS: Do you remember the town going in there or were you out on the homestead?

AE: Well we stayed on the homestead there. Well, when I got old enough I'd go out and work somewhere too. I even worked in the logging camps. I went into the logging camps flunkying one time at the age of about 17,18 years of age.

LS: When you were growing up on the homestead, would you tell me what it was like living there? How many more sisters and brothers were there?

ML: Four girls...

AE: Four girls and two boys. I'm the only one left. L: Of the boys.

AE: Think I'm doing pretty good for an old devil.(laughs)

UV: You wuldn't have been around this long if you hadn't been a devil.(laughter)

ML: One thing, the winters were severe. You'd be snowed in in the winter. Except when you go through and break the road. Take a team of horses and break the road throggh to the main road. Winters were long and severe.

LS: Could you get out to go to school at all?

ML: Our school was interupted a lot, due to weather conditions.

AE: You know, May and Mollie both went out and boarded some place, some time, they worked for their board.

ML: Worked for the room and board and that's where I got most of my education, the little I got.

LJ: I could name the months that I've gone, I guess.

AE: But there's very little schooling that we ever got.

LS: How far away was the school?

AE: Three miles. They called it three miles of that, it was at the lower end of that Hog Meadows.

When I started to school You started at Helmer, didn't you? I started at Helmer. We started in then Deary, I started at Deary. We had to rent an apartment and remain away from home.

LJ: That was during the first world war when my brother was in service. We were really, it was a Tough , I'm telling you.

UV: They had to wrap their feet with gunny sacks.

ML: That's no joke. I saw my brother do that, my younger brother

AE: Had to put gunny sack to keep the toes from freezing off. My god, it was terrinle cold.

LJ: You didn't do it in Deary, May.

ML: No, we didn't do it in Deary, but I've seen that at home.

LJ: I've done it at home though.

UV: Wrap their feet in gunny sacks and pour water on it and let if freeze so they could keep from freezing to death.

LS: You really did that?

LJ: Sure. We'd have to go feed the stock, why we'd, we didn't have ally rubbers so we put 'em outside of our shoes, gunny sacks. And when they wore out underneath, we'd turn 'em over. Turn them over, put 'em on the other side.

UV: They think they have it hard, nowadays.

LJ: That's right.

AE: Well, you had to go dressed like an Eskimo, (laughs)

ML: We didn't have things to dress as warm as Eskimos,that was it.

LJ: We didn*t have buffalo hides or anything like that.

ML: I should say not. Money was hard to get. Taxes.had to be paid and we alwyas had to have feed for our stock.That was the two things you had to do.

LJ: What year was that May, when he was in the service?

ML: That'd be in 1918. 1917.

LJ: We run out of hay and we had quite a few head of cattle, Emil, that's our brother, he bought some hay up at Shea Meadows there. Thirty six dollar a ton. Seemed like that's what it was.

ML: It was terrific.

LJ: Anyway, we had an awful time getting that hay home.That was breaking in the spring and the horses go through. When it starts to rain and the snow is kind of crusty. We had...

ML: Merneath the water would be running and the horses would break th rough the snow.

LS: Was that a particularly hard winter?

LJ: I think it was, really.

ML; It was quite...

LJ: Lot of snow.

AE: Yeah, sometimes the winters were not so hard. Then other times, god almighty...

LJ: I think we measured it on the flat, was it that year, it was higher than my head, anyway. We dug clear down to the ground just to see how deep it was.

ML: We got a lot of snow.

LJ: So our stock come out kind of thin in the spring,

ML: Yes they did.

LJ: You haven't told the story about the children.

AE: About what?

LJ: kids.

AE: I don't see anything iiew about it.

LS: It's old, that's why it's interesting.

ML: Just the number, that's all. There was six of us children in the family.

LS: What was it like, how your parents got by, what you had to do to help. Chores.

UV: Tell about how you helped out.

AE: Well in the morning in the wintertime, well you had to get out and feed.

UV: How many of you done this?

AE: Well I and Emil, when he got big enough, I and Emil and the old man, we'd all go out there. And then'we'd have to cut wood. Jiminy Christmas, we had two stoves agoing. Usually the wood cookstove and the heat stove. And you use an awful lot of wood in the country like that.

ML: And the water that we carried from our well, we'd bring in the night before, it would freeze. In the water buckets, right in the kitchen. That s how cold it was.

L: We hear those balsa trees popping out there. Snapping and popping. You'd know it was cold when they start to snap.

ML: It burns I guess, when it gets to a certain temperature.

UV: Somebody was traveling with a wagon, within five miles you couldn't hear, Creaking

ML: When it was wet, you could hear the cattle when they would be walking at night, you could hear them whenlftiey go up on that snow. Funny noise. It d be so cold it'd make the snow powdery.

UV: what was the girls doing when you were doing this?

AE: Well, you know, they were pretty small, you know. May was the baby, Mollie...)

UV: Well anyway, the oldest one. Tell about the oldest one. And the next oldest and the girls.

AE: My older sister, she worked out quite a bit, So that left Mollie with quite a bit of work. May was the baby, of course. But as she grew up, she was quite a bit of help.They really were good help there in the kitchen.

LJ: I twas better out in the field though. I'd rather work outside.

LS: Vhat kind of work would you do outside?

LJ: Shocking hay.

ML: Oh yes,I've done that. And we loaded when we, during th«»- war I used to load hay, you kids would pitch it on for me.

LJ: May'd be up there loading. One time she went overboard between the horses,do you remember that May?

ML: Istepped out too far.Good thing they were

AE: Haven't you been born on a farm?

LS: No.

AE: Never? Oh then, you don't know nothing about it. But god, in your time you must have seen a lot of those kids on the farm a working.

LS: They don't work now the way they used to. Some things are the same, but so much has changed.

LJ: Mostly machinery and all that.

UV: Tell them how many livestock you had and the sheep you had to run.

AE: We run, we used to have about 20, 25 head of cattle. And about 15,20 head of sheep. Two or three hogs. And probably couple dozen chickens. Isn't that what we used to have,'bout two dozen.

LJ: I imagine. But I think we had more cattle than that. Seems like we had around 50 head.

AE: Well one time up to about 30 head.

ML: We had 50 head the time you decided to sell them off.Remember, you decided to quit the cattle business, you had built it up to about 50 head. We had a pretty good . of stock.

UV: How many horses did you have to work with?

AE: Well, we only had two.

LJ: "Then you got another cayuse.

LS: Where would you run the cattle?

AE: God, we had that whole territory up there. There was no neighbors. Now there's three or four neighbors didn't have any cattle, don't you see. Well our cattle could run on their ground, don't you see. We could have run, if we could have raised enough hay, we would run a lot more cattle in there. But then, we just had to go according to what hay we could harvest.So but it wasn't a good paying proposition, because it cost too much.

LS: What cost too much?

AE: Well if you had to buy hay and haul it in there, that really cost quite a bit. So we couldn't see any profit much in it. You couldn't raise enough on the hay you had there to make it worthwhile. That was it. There wasn t enough acreage timber Yeah. You see, there wasn't quite 40 acres there of farmland. Well it's only 40 acres, wasn't^fo acres hardly of farm land.

LS: Where would you sell the cattle?

AE: Buyers would come in there. Buyers coming in from Moscow and Pullman. And other places, coming in tqbuy up fat cattle. And then we butchered a lot. Sold the meat to the companies. Lumber companies.

LS: Did you do the same with the sheep?Did they run loose?

AE: They just run loose, yeah. Not the neighbors bother them Oh, once in a while a coyote would kill one. But then, that was to be expected.

UV: Looked at it as a natural loss.

LJ: Bear or something like that would get in there, they'd kind of make a killing. Once in a while.

ML: And shear the sheep in the spring.And sell the wool to.local merchant . Shear several sacks of wool. I remember sheep shearing time very well. I remember when we got that fancy machine for shearing sheep. Alfred...

LJ: He had been down to Hooper and he learnedishear: the sheep with a machine. So he decided to buy one. ttle had to run this little crank.

AE: That was a pretty good goddang sheep shearing machine.(laughs)

LJ: He'd just set these sheep down and he'd shear 'em around there. We'd be cranking away on that little thing.

UV: I bet you get tired too.

LJ: Oh yeah, we'd have to change.

AE: It was pretty hard.

LJ: And then of course, we'd have to take the little scissors and clip around the ears, eyes and face.(laughs)

UV: Pretty good barber deal there.(laughs)

AE: No, I sheared for other people around.

LS: With that machine?

AE: Yeah. Iwent up and sheared the Crane sheep one time. He had abQut th±rty head up there. Old Crane, do you remember?

LJ: Who turned the crank for you then?

AE: Old Crane.Yeah and the boys/%hem two boys there, y$u know.

LS: What kind of machine was it?

AE: Well it was, I sent off to Chicago. I don't remember just what it was.LJ; Seems like it was twelve dollars and something.

AE: Oh it must have been more that that. His was a pretty good golldang machine.

UV: I got an old Sears and Robuck catalog down there shows it in there.

ML: I bet it does have it in.

AE: If you got the old time...

UV: I think they were about 12 dollars.

ML: It had little clippers on it, looked like hand clippers that you'd use for cutting hair at home, like children's hair or your husband's or anybody's. And it worked somewhat on that order. I remember.

UV: A chain inside of a little tube .

LJ: Had the elbows on it.

UV: I can show you one down there. In the catalog.

AE: It's on the same^as clippers that they use on humans. The barber's use.

ML: I was going to say it was about the same.

AE: Just about the same. That knife goes just like that.

LS: There weren't many people around that ran sheep, were there?

AE: No, well most all of those ranchers up there, they had a few sheep always because they were pretty handy. Whenever you wanted to kill a mutton, you go out, and you wouldn't have too much meat on hand, you know, go out and kill a sheep whenever you needed meat. So that was alright. UV: Did you ever get a deer once in a while?

AE: Yeah. Emil was the best hunter. I never could get an elk. I killed a bear one time, and I killed a deer. Emil was a golldang good hunter. He could get the deer and the elk and I couldn't get an elk to save my soul,

UV: He was like an Indian, he knew the trickf.

ML: And he used to tra: p to, this was my youngest brother, he used to tra ip weasles and martins and coyote in the winter, you know, for extra money. He knew how to prepare pelts, and he sent them into St. Louis. Taylor Hide and Fur Company, wasn't it.He'd catch a lot of weasel and they do have beautiful pelts. He always had a trapline going in the winter.

LS: Would he go far to trap?

ML: Not too far.

AE: He'd walk half a mile sometime.

ML: About a mile maybe. He'd go up on Bronson Meadows,didn't he have some up there? Up along that creek, I think. And though the little creeks that through the meadow.

UV: You killed a bear, did you eat the meat?

AE: No. By god, I didn't eat the meat, although I have eaten bear meat. I don't know, I killed the prettiest bear, god he was fat. He was a yearling.

UV: I can't stand the taste of it.

LJ: Tastes like pork.

AE: It tastes awful good. You got to know how to prepare that stuff. You got to parboil it. After you get it rparboiled you put it in a roasting pan and put it into the oven and then roast it. Then you really got good meat. It's a a fact.

LS: Where did you kill that bear?

AE: Pretty elose to where we lived. Brown bear. You know, I'd been to town and I stayed all night in town. To Bovill. So on my way back home, I got within a half a mil e of place. I run on to a bear and he was feeding along the road, this brush that's got that white berries on? You seen -ifet kind of brush haven't you?Clusters of that white berries. And I got as close to him as far Afrom here to the wall over there, maybe a little closer.Yeah, I think it was closer than that. He popped out of the brush and into the road.And he faced me and I thought well my god he looks ugly. And the longer I stood there, the worse he, god the hair come up,from his shoulders clear to his head. Back of his head. I seen he meant fight. I didn't dare and try get him out of the road. So then there was a little Oitch along side of the road and so I thought well I'm going to cross this ditch and go long the other side of the hill there, it wasn t too far to the road»there where I could go running, get on the road an go on up the hill. So I went on around him.The bear, he watched, he just stood there and watched right along til I was clear out of sight. When I got home, I told Emil, by golly I says, I think we can get a bear this morning. He says,"Where?" and I told him. So I said, let'tf get the gun and go. So we gcrf the gun, we walked back. And the bear hadn't traveled any further,maybe twice as long as from here to that wall maybe. And he was then to the bend in the road. Took off on the main road, going up over the hill there into our place. So there was a big snag. This snag was about 25,30 feet high. A great big snag that burned off.In a fire. And the tree was three and a half feet through. So you see, it was quite a stump. So I said to my brother, I'll tell you what I think we'd better do. I think we better sneak down, I says. And stay behind this, keep...

UV: Behind the stump.

AE: Yeah. So we walked on down and I looked, by golly I says, by jiminy, here he's already. He's already went by here, he's up on the hill on the upper side. Let's get down to the stump. We got down there and I just crept around the tree there and I seen him and he jumped up on a windfall. Well this windfall was about that high off of the ground, tree about that big through. He had jumped up there because it was so brushy he didn't care to go through it, he thought,"Well I'll jump up on this log and go on to It where there'd be a clearing.Well, after he got up on the log and he made, two three, four steps. Then he stopped. I put up the old rifle and took aim and let him have it. I knoced him off of the log, But I tell you, that was the most pitiful noise I ever heard.It sounded like a human being dying. By god it's a fact.

UV: You'd never s}ioot another one?

AE: No, I would shoot another one, but they have such a pitiful,you know, when they're dying.It's just pitiful to listen to 'em. It's like a human being.

UV: What caliber rifle did you have?

AE: 30.30.

LS: Do they cry?

AE: Well something on the cry.Just like a human crying. Sound just like a man. Man's voice. But, so we started to go^up there, he'd already fell off the 1 log there and down into the brush, he was just kicking, doing his last kicking when we got to him. By god, that meat was just as pretty and red as anything you've ever seen. I skinned him out. Did you sell the hide then or what? No, I didn't sell the hide.I just let the hide lay around there. Wouldn't be much good in the summertime, would it. yeah, the hide I think would have been alright. But I didn't want to fool with.

ML: Lot of people have 'em for rugs, but I never cared for 'em. But that used to be popular in the early days.

UV: We had a big old bear rug at home. White and kind of grey looking, you know. Great big one. Jeez, it was mammoth. When I was a kid.

LS: Did you help support the family?

AE: Why yes. We both done that, I and Emil, we worked out and what we made off of the place, I had to. We didn't have any money. Just what we got working and what stock we sold.

UV: Didn't you work for the mill down there too?

AE: Oh yeah, I went down there and fi*ed in a sawmill there one summer,

LS: When you were young?

AE: I was about 16,17.

LS: Was that at Potlatch?

AE: No, it was down at the Potlatch Creek, alright. Fellow by the name of Hanson had a big mill. So they wanted a fireman, so they gave me the job of firing then. Oh, I've done other work in the mill. I've ro^ carriage. You know how they used to ride the carriage?

UV: I've been in the timber too.

AE: Have you? In the sawmill?

UV: In the sawmill.

AE: They had two men there on the carriage. Here in the B,C, Spruce Mill, we used to cut tall trees, be cutter. There's three big camps up there, Two hundred and twenty five in one Camp One. Camp Two had about 250 and about 200 in Camp Three.

LS: Did your father always dislike living there?

AE: Well you know, the old man, I think the longer he stayed there the more he liked the place.That's the way I figured it. But something happened to the old man too, he was taken away. I suppose you heard about that?

LS: No.

AE: Well after I went into the army in 1917, the old man I guess he was figuring on killing somebody,he took the rifle and went into f)wn one time. That was in the year 1918, wasn't it?

ML: That's when the first World War.

AE: Yeah.

UV: There s one or two around there needed killing. If I'd been him,

AE: There was some of them, by god, but they seen what was happening and what was the matter with the old man. Got scared there in Bovill, Hell, he took and he went and even bought a box of cartridges I think too.It's funny that they'd sell him abox of cartridges. And thentie started filling the magazine and put one in the barrel. And he was ready to go out and kill. So thank god, the Groh brothers, that's where the trouble started was up at the Groh brothers.

LS: You didn't get along with them?

AE: Well, not too good. Idon't know.^wasn't there when this happened and the kids don't know much about. ..

LJ: Well we wasn't there, don't know much about it 'cause ha went to town and he didn't show up the next day. I was working on the ridge. I don't remember where you were. Were you home then?

ML: 'I wasn't a very big gal. I was only about eleven then.

LJ: I was working for Mrs. Ingle out on the ridge.

AE: Wasn't you at home?

LJ: No.

AE: I thought you was. . h

LJ: When I got home, that's what I found out. Because they tool^ me home after I was the harvest. I went there cooking. So he was sent to Orofino, that's what happened. They committed him.

LS: And he hadn't actually done anything.

LJ: Just because he was getting queer.

ML: He was unbalanced I think, but there was a lot of things that entered into that, too. He was badly injured when he was just a boy at home in Minnesota. Kicked by a horse and I saw our uncle jbe about 26 years ago, and dad was unconcious for I don't know how long. And then he was hurt at home when he caught that tree, remember, he laid out there and he had an injury.

LS: What happened then?

ML: He was out sawing that tree down, remember, and mama said he never came home?

AE: He was chopping the tree down.

ML: And he was hit by a limb or something.

AE: No, you see, sometime a tree will burn in a funny way.It'11 burn a hole out. And it must be on account of a pitchy limb. And it'll keep burniga on out and it's got is a little stripping out on the round edge of solid wood, don't don't you see. Well here you got this other top hanging there and it's just hanging there by goodness, and if you shake it, that thing would wobble just like that. Well, the old man he didn't use good judgement is the only thing I can say. So he started and he was going to cut that golldang snag down. W^L.1 this hole was^20 feet from the ground. Where that fire had burned out. And jiminy, he'd cut and he'd cut and cut and that shook that loose part on the top there^ that burned. And pretty soon, he happened to hit pretty hard into it with the axe and it broke off and it hit the old man right on top of the head. It hit him on the side of the head. And here prettW soon, I and ma,we come out of the house.The old man come and his face was just a mass of blood. "I've been unconscious for an hour,"he said. "I didn't know what the dickens, it hit me. The top of the tree fell down on me." And the old man had been laying there for quite a while before he come to. And he come to he come to the house. You see, that probably had effect on his mind too. He never was seem like right after that.

LS: He probably got a pretty fair concussion.

ML: He must have.

UV: I figured out what happened to me. I got kicked by a horse with both feet.

AE: The side of the head or the front?

UV: I was kicked in the stomach, thrown right over the other stall. He hit me on the head, but I hit my head on the other, when I landed.

ML: Dad was kicked by a horse. You know that. He told you about it, didn't he?

AE: No, he never told me that.

ML: My uncle told me about it. My uncle that we saw in Minnesota six years ago,

AE: I never heard my dad say anything about that.

ML: He was unconscious for quite a while.

AE: The old man never told me that. I remember you telling me about it before, but the old man never did tell me. But he said that he fell off of the wagon one time when he had a barrel, he was hauling water from the river. So the boys, they set up front there and they told my dad to sit in back there and hold that barrel. Keep it from tipping over. It was kind of rough going I guess, and they was running the horses fast. Well anyway, the golldang barrel tipped over and the old man fell out of the wagon and the hind wheel of that wagon run right over the middle of his back. Right straight across. The old man said he coudn't get up for quite a while. Je just about almost broke his back,

LJ: You know, he did have trouble with his back.

AE: You bet he did.

ML: I rubbed his back a lot of tlffps with linament when I was a little girl, I remember that so well. Time after time. He had some hard knocks. He had some hard knocks is right. like that and I was walking behind them. hit my head on that and I was sitting this way and I was trying to get my artdt had 4o Toll oyer balance like this, and I couldn't get my breath. I thought I was going to die

AE: I've seen fellows kicked by a horse.

LJ: Another story too that you can tell about when you got bucked off that horse. Got arm broke in three different places,

LS: What's that one?

ML: Was that the right arm or the left?

AE: The left.

ML: We had to take him to Troy, many, many miles.

LS: How did that happen?

AE: Oh, I got on the horse there and the horse started bucking and I. he bucked me off and I don't know how I fell. Broke my arm, Broke it in two places.

LJ: I thought it was three.

AE: Not three. Two places. So that was a bad shock, so I got over that and in a month or so, I was as good as new.

LJ: Dad had to take him to Troy and that's... Claifedale horses is what we had there. This cl sdale's got great,big feet

AE: That was the only doctor down there.

LS: The closest doctor?

AE: That was the closest doctor.

ML: That was about 13,14 miles from home.

LJ: You had to wait til daylight, didn't you? Before he could do anything. Because he had ether and couldn't, they didn't have electric lights, had gas, I guess.

ML: And they gave you chloroform. The doctor gave you chloroform, didn't he to put you to sleep? Set your arm. Well I'm glad they didn't break my neck. It was one of those Indian ponies, and she was awful tricky. (all talk at once.) Did you ride a lot as a kid? Yeah. I used to ride standing up. I'd liked to have been in the circus. Climbing trees. She was a tomboy. And I was six years younger, so I missed out on that. I was too young to do this, do that. Do this and that and the other thing. I don't want you, you .ho#|e,you're too little.

UV: Then when they want her they'd say,"Come baby, come baby,"(laughter)

ML: That's the way it was.(pause)

LS: What was the trip like back to Minnesota?

AE: It was a fine trip. We rode on the train, got to see the engines. Well, it was different. Ma, she made up a big lunch, enough to last us til we got there. But then, she had a coffee pot and she had to get some coffee and I think she had some coffee grounds along. So they used to have these stoves in there in the coaches. They had those stoves, you could go over there and put the coffeepot on there and you got cold water there and you could make some coffee. We et(sic) pretty good, shucks, we had,ma made up a lot of sandwiches, cookies, some doughnuts and course I didn't drink much coffee them days, but ma, she wanted her coffee. The conductor says,"Help yourself. There's a stove, you can make all the coffee you want! So ma went into the dining room in there. They had dining rooms. I don't know what she went in to get that time. But she come back with something. I forget what in the dickens it was, But jiminy we were on the road there for about four days.

1:00 - Parents came from Minnesota in 1892 and bought homestead in Hog Meadows

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Segment Synopsis: Parents came out in 1892 from Minnesota. Mother had her nephew, Tom Berg, buy the Kahn homestead in Hog Meadows. He paid $500 for 136 acres-which was too much. Old log house had a rock fireplace with one large room and a second room for a barn. Wood was stacked between the rooms and a full roof was over both. House built a few years later.

6:00 - Father disappointed, built fence around meadow and farmed hay and helped build road in summer to Warren Meadows

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Segment Synopsis: Father awfully disappointed. Put in a fence and plowed up the meadow. Beautiful wild hay grew and he built a big barn for hay. He worked on county road in summer time and helped build the road to Warren Meadows. Road used to go by the forks of the Potlatch where the Carlson family lived who started the Danesville Post Office and ran it several years. Marshall Heinsley, the main owner of Hog Meadows, got the Post Office later and built on a grocery store with a store front. When he sold out T.R. (Russ) Lawrence on the other side of Helmer got the Post Office and built a grocery store also. Later moved the Post Office to Helmer and changed the name.

13:00 - Names of original homesteaders and settlers in Hog Meadows; origin of name of Hog Meadow

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Segment Synopsis: Names of original homesteaders and later settlers and renters on Hog Meadows. Hog Meadows named from when Nichols of Texas Ridge brought in about 250 hogs to root on the camas all summer. Saw Indians digging camas in the field by the house.

21:00 - Bovill's from high society in England. Lena worked in logging camps as a flunky.

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Segment Synopsis: Bovill's from high society in England. Lena worked in logging camps as a flunky.

24:00 - Need to make trail to road for school three miles away from Hog Meadows

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Segment Synopsis: Needed the team to break trail to the road. School was three miles away at lower end of Hog Meadows. Wrapped gunny sacks around shoes for boots to feed the stock. In the winter of 1918 they ran out of hay and paid $30 a ton.

29:00 - Girls helped on the homestead

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Segment Synopsis: Girls helped feed stock, cut wood for cookstove and heater and carry water in from the well. Heard the balsam trees popping when really cold.

30:00 - Girls loaded hay, and ran up to fifty heads of cattle, only used cattle for hay

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Segment Synopsis: Girls worked loading hay, shocking and pitching. Ran up to fifty head of cattle, but could only raise cattle they had hay for. Buyers came in for fat cattle or butchered for lumber company. Alfred sent away for a shearing machine that was a big success.

38:00 - Brother Emil was a good hunter and sent to St. Louis; description of him killing bear; Alfred worked at Hanson sawmill in Potlatch River

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Segment Synopsis: Emil (brother) a good hunter who trapped and sent fur to St. Louis. Vivid description of meeting and killing a bear half a mile from home. Pitiful cry when shot, like a human being. Alfred worked at the Hanson sawmill on Potlatch River when sixteen.

48:00 - Father taken to Orofino because he took a gun and talked about killing somebody

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Segment Synopsis: Father taken to Orofino because he took a gun to town and talked about killing somebody. Father had several severe accidents where he hurt his back and head.

56:00 - Alfred went to doctor in Troy after breaking his arms; Molly was a tomboy; went on trip to Minnesota

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Segment Synopsis: Alfred broke his arm in two places and went to Troy to doctor. Molly (Lena) the tomboy. Trip back to Minnesota.

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