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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: June 17, 1975 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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SAM SCHRAGER: This interview with Glen Gilder was recorded on June 17, 1975

GLEN GILDER: I remember is that we hauled our wheat in there, dumped and took our empty sacks home and refilled 'em. While as most when you hauled it in they kept the sacks. Because they had to- it was before the days of elevators, and long before, but there they did have bins and they kept 'em. Now, Idon't know whether anybody ever run that before mill. Art's dad did or not. That's before my time but his dad run thatA there for years.

SS: Did it run on water power?

GG: Altogether, they didn't have anything else. 1 think in the later years, that they did convert it to electricity, but Inever seen that. I had gone from Palouse before they did it.

SS: Did they have all the power they needed to do all the grinding they wanted?

GG: Yeah they seemed to, they seemed to. They had abig dam there fourteen feet high, Iguess, maybe higher. That pond used to go back up the river there for a mile or more.

SS: Did they have big grinding stones?

GG: Yeah, it was a stone mill, although Inever any more than just one time walked up and looked around, but then I didn't understand anything about it. It was all Greek to me. But he made good flour. We'd haul our own wheat in there and trade with him. Take the flour home- a whole year's supply at one shot.

SS: How much would that be?

GG: Twenty sacks or better. Fifty pound sacks. Twenty, twenty-five. Idon't know. When you take your wheat in there you trade 'em a sack of wheat, I believe for a sack of flour. And then you got with that all the bran that came off it and farina, all the by-products. You got that back, they didn't want it. Feed part of it to the hogs and part of it to the kids and make quite a lot of use out of it.

SS: What was the charge?

GG: There was no charge. A straight across trade: one sack of wheat, one sack of flour. But then, a sack of wheat would make more than a sack of flour, that was all there was to that. He probably more than likely gave us half. The flour that come out of it weighed a hundred— no fifty pounds and the sack of wheat that went in there weighed about a hundred and ten, a good sack a hundred and twenty. But we were darn happy to do it, be cause wheat wasn't very high and neither was flour, as far as that goes, probably a dollar and a quarter to a dollar and a half. Idon't remember but it was in that neighborhood.

SS: Did that mill buy a lot of wheat? Or did you just trade 'em?

GG: No, no, no. We drove in there from north of Tord with— we gener ally hauled with two teams. I was just a little punk of a kid, but I could drive horses. uncle would drive the team ahead of me and then I'd follow him with mine. And we had on about forty-five sacks to the team, but when we'd get down there, there might be a line of teams lined up there for, oh, clear out across the main road to Potlatch— there might be ten or fifteen or twenty four-horse teams in there. No they handled a good volume of business. They bought or traded or any way you wanted to deal, they didn't care. It made a pretty good deal for the farmers, I guess, because they got the sack back and that was quite an ex pense. And we got market price for the wheat just the same as if they'd kept the sacks. The old man was a good business man and he was a good miller. Knew his stuff. It was good flour.

SS: Where do you think the mill's market would have been for their grain?

GG: Well, There was a ready market. They would buy it on the open mar ket, Spokane or anyplace else, but I'll just bet you that they pretty near ate that up right around Palouse,I'll just bet you they did. 'Cause you bring in flour from other areas, it more than likely cost more, it certainly would cost more to produce it and ship it because of the added things that entered in there, but I'll bet you that it was almost entirely eaten around Palouse, but I don't know that.

SS: Palouse was really a pretty big town to the - important town to the Pal ouse River area?

GG: Well, until they put the mill in there, there wasn't anything from Palouse to the head of the river. A stage stop and post office, and oh, a few but very few. Small little stores that weren't not near as big as this living room, but they'd post office and store, and what-haveyou in there. There was astage stop at Ky Ford, there was astage stop next to Princeton, the old town, Hanson, and then Idon't think there was another one until you got to Wood. And then you had to go over the mountain to Emida, and they were all served by the same stage line, And I think they turned around at Emida and came back, I'm not positive of that, but I think he did. And another met him there and went on to St. Maries and the St. Joe River.

SS: Would this be a daily run from Palouse?

GG: I don't believe they made a daily run, I think about twice a week. When the sawmill was being built and come in there, Art Craig was running it, the stage, and there'd be a bunch of men come in to Palouse, you know, and wanted to go up the river for the woods work or railroad or whatever. So Art couldn't take 'em all, but he'd charge 'em just as much to take the packsack and bed,and they were happy to get it done, and then they walked and the wagon hauled their stuff, plus the groceries and mail. Fe male passengers, they couldn't walk, kids (Chuckles).

SS: He must have had a pretty good business.

GG: He did. He did. And then after this excitement was all over and the mill was in and the railroad was built, why that ruined it. So he put up a livery barn there in Princeton, that's in the new town, and spent the rest of his life there running that livery stable. Horses, saddle horses, driving horses, freight horses, anything you wanted, they had it.

SS: Did he start in Princeton, or did he start at Potlatch?

GG: No, he started at Palouse for the first of it. Whether there was anybody else run a stageline up there, I don't really know, Edna could tell you. She knew it farther back than I did and she knew it much better, 'cause her dad ran the post office there at Woodfell

SS: Iwonder about how long it would take him to get to Woodfell ? That was an overnight stop for travelers but probably not for the—

GG: I think probably. That'd be about twenty-eight miles, and I think they just probably figured on doing that. A good team'd do it easily, but if they were loaded pretty heavy, why it might be quite a task. I have just an idea that that was an overnight stop right there. And the next day they went on to Emida, stayed overnight and came back. It'd take four days,— three or four days to do that, near as I can figure, I certainly don't rem ember.

SS: For a while I've heard there was a stage that went up to— at least as far as I thought further up the Palouse River.

GG: They did, that's right, it went from Harvard up the Palouse River to those placer mines up there, but I don't know who it is. I don't know anything about it, don't remember a thing about the)fschedule. But then there wasn't any other transportation, it was just that horse. And there was lots and lots of littlesftagelines all over the country, the same as there are highft ways and railroads now. And then the railroads come in and that cut them out of their main line. Have you ever read The Shadowy St. Joe?

SS: I've seen it though.

GG: You could get a lot of help out of that book. The first half of it at any rate.

SS: Did you ever hear of the old Hoodoo Trail?

GG: Yeah. Went from Johnson's over the hump to the head of the North Fork of the Palouse. Pack trail. And, by the way, Jake Johnson used to run that packstring in there, over that trail.

SS: Where was his place?

GG: Woodfell.

SS: His place was at Woodfell?

GG: That was Woodfell. He ran the post office and stage stop there. Well, he was enterprising, he was aworker, and so was the rest of his family. Fact of the matter is, all families were at that time. They had to be.

SS: This trail— old Hoodoo Trail, it went up and managed to pass by or close to a lot of the claims.

GG: Well, the claims and the Hoodoos were pretty well bunched on the North Fork, and whether they had the distributing point or not, Idon't know. But he probably went as far as he had mail or groceries, or whatever to go up there and then turned around and come back. He'd make that trip up and back in a day. You don't know exactly where Woodfell is, do you?

SS: I do, yeah, it's by Harvard there.

GG: It went right straight east, right over the hills.

SS: Up near Bald Mountain.

GG: Yes, I think it probably got that high, but maybe not. I've been over it- No I don't think so, although there was a trail over Bald Mountain. I think that his pack trails to the Palouse was down lower.

SS: I've been reading a little bit about Henry Plummer lately. He really does sound like a big thief. Real desperado.

GG: He was. No doubt about it. And when I was a kid they claimed that those cabins at ark were used by him at different times in his horse business. He had a pretty good horse business. He drove 'em both ways from Alder Gulch and that area in there to Tekoajin the Spokane area, and then he'd load up another bunch from down here; he'd sell the ones he got in the East and he'd sell 'em down here ande'd take another bunch back there and sell them. They used to claim that that cabin was used by him at different times and we know that he was in and out of Lewiston real frequently, so there's little doubt it.

SS: Was it just a straight horse thief operation?

GG: No, he wasn't particular, he'd steal anything. (Chuckles) That's what they hung him for, was stealing gold! No, he wasn't a specialist, he had a varied business. He wasn't particular,he'd kill a Chinaman just as quick as he would a white man. Thought he had a couple of dollars or a gold watch on him he was doomed. Been a lot written on him, lot of it good. Vardis Fisher, I think had a pretty good book on him. I thought it was good, any way. I don't know what the name of it was, don't even remember very much about it, 'cause it probably could be fifty years since Iread it. Idon't know.

SS: Were there any other guys in the country who were noted for—?

GG: Wellll, yes, but I don't as I could quote you any names on em. I never knew any of 'em, as far as I know, I didn't know any of 'em. But it was quite acommon thing.You see, there was Indians around here, Old Mo and Spokane Garry and all those fellows. They were millionaires in horses. Colonel George Wright,killed out there this side of the river from Harrison, they killed eight hundred head up there, but that didn't hurt 'em. They thought they was just putting them out of business: well, they did put 'em out of business, alright. They killed eight hundred head, and as far as the horses are concerned, that didn't hurt 'em. Old Mo had lots of hor ses, and he pastured 'em down here at Kendrick, Ritzville- he had abig outfit there at Spokane Falls— not Spokane Falls, Palouse Falls.

SS: Is MoX Mo the same Indian who used to be up around B°vill?

GG: Yes. But that was only just for berries or hunting. He kind of stayed a little farther West because horses was his business.

SS: How did he happen to be so well known?

GG: He was so big in his business. He was honest, there was no horse stealing with him. And if a man needed a horse, and he knew it and he had any res pect for the man at all, he'd give him ahorse, he didn't think anything of it.

SS: Do you think he took his herds up here in the summertime?

GG: He didn't move them a great deal, he just let 'em move themselves. He didn't have to, there was always feed for them. I've heard and read estimates about what he had, but- lot of horses. On my dad's homestead down there, at La Crosse, it was nothing to daily see horses that were wild. There wasn't anybody owned 'em. My dad caught oh, possibly ten head of them dur ing the time he was there. He caught one little mare, I don't think she ever did weigh over, oh, possibly eight hundred pounds, and bred her to a pretty fair horse, got a thousand, eleven hundred pound colt out of her, and kept right on with that same blood there for a good many years, I don't know how many. I don't know how many colts they had with that blood in 'em. They had others, too, but when he left that homestead down there and come up to Palouse he sold her and I had a good bawl over it. I'd never ridden her, or don't think anybody else ever did; tried it, Kdidn't work. But I bawled 'cause she was part of the family. She'd been around there five or six years, you know.

SS: She'd just been one of the Indian horses?

GG: Uh-huh. She was Well, after the Indians were corralled and put on these reservations and so badly whipped, they just left the horses— they just reverted, they weren't anybody's after that, because the Indian couldn't claim 'em, he couldn't take care of 'em, so they were just wild horses. And that's where all the wild horses came from, the Indians had the first title to 'em. There's one of these Nez Perce Indians, according to the history went clear down into Texas and brought two old— they got old anyway, I don't know how old they were, but they brought back two or three horses. That's where the flez Perces first got their horses. Well, I think that Hatley got it from Frank, but that's where I read it. The best part was from book. I was wondering what he called it, Cayuse, or what?

SS: Do you think we just took the Indians' land away from 'em? Did we do them a real injustice or not?

GG: Yes, we certainly did do them an injustice and we still are, definitely. But, on the other hand, at the time that all this battling was going on it was needless- the Indian wouldn't have hurt anybody or anything if the White man hadn't showed him how. White men, always, most every In dian uprising, the White men fired the first shots. That was in Nez Perce and just about everyplace else. In that massacre there at

SS: Whitman.

GG: Whitman, it was the same thing, and it's always been the same thing. The White men was first. And I don't see why anybody could blame an Indian for fighting back. What would happen if the Chinamen come in here today and tried to take this country by the same method: would we just grin and bear it, or would we scrap? And it's the same thing to me. I wonder, I guess I always will wonder, 'cause I'm too damn stubborn, nobody could prove it to me.

But these missionaries come in here to convert the Indians and educate 'em. They just worshipped the same God, they just called him by a different name, well, they called everything else by a different name, that was perfectly natural. That's the way I feel about it.

SS: Seems they divided the Nez Perce so badly to have some of them be the hea then and some of them be the Christian Nez Perce, seems like it split the tribe right down the middle.

GG: Well, it did. Whitman and Spalding came and then a year or two later then here come De Smet and Stevens and they all had a different religion, and all told the Indians a different story. Well, gee, who's he gonna believe? I think they done more harm than good.

SS: Did they have much of a reputation back in the early days?

GG: Well, there was for a while there they did, because they had a problem— they had no government, so they organized their own. And they got this Hill and a bunch of those fellows in one bunch and then a little later on there was another they called Dakota Slim and Blackie, I believe, right after the first one and they threw out of a upper story window of a hotel, there in Colfax, and I think that made about a total of about five and that cleaned the thing up, they didn't need them any more. They just dissolved. Nobody was ever supposed to know who they were, or any thing about it, but then, they did. No question about it. I think served the purpose there, same ashedid in Alder Gulch. THey cleaned the place up, and it certainly had to be cleaned up.

SS: Alder Gulch?

GG: Yeah. That's where they hung Plummer.

SS: It really was lawless from what people would say when you were a kid, I mean—

GG: No, when I was a kid, no. They'd gone past that.

SS: Well, when they talked about it.

GG: Yes.

SS: What it had been.

GG: But, on the other hand, no, they weren't, there were just these few that thought that they were just good to work, so they devised some other means of making aliving. But most of them: no. There was fewer outlaws and fewer crooks in those days, as compared to population as it is in reverse today, there's more crooks and outlaws and thieves in op eration today, and fewer honest people in the high positions— it's just the reverse of what it was.

SS: Things have been getting worse and not better.

GG: That's right. But it's due to the fact that there's more population, there's more money, there's more correspondence, there's more opportunity for them. I've read, I think it was Dob said, that in the early days aman could walk out of his cabin, hand his watch on the doorknoband be gone a year, and come back and it wouldn't have lost a minute, ' it would still be there. And now-a-days if you done that, when you came back the door wouldn't be there! And likely not the cabin.

SS: You mean that was true when you grew up? Could one of the neighbors leave a watch out there?

GG: Inever suppose that happened but Dobj says as an example. There was more honestyomparably than there is now. There were fewer people. Any body that was crooked or conniving, he wasn't very popular, (lots of inter ference).

GG: I've known of two, both of 'em women, that were just bored to deathout here.

SS: Who were from the East?

GG: Uh-huh.

SS: Would you say that most Easterners fall in love with this country?

GG: They mostly do. Mostly. And California, and south, Nevada and Utah and down in there, if they ever get a chance they'll come up here to live and settle, if they could make it so that they could live. Most of 'em only know one way to live, and so they gotta stay there until they reach re tirement, and then they're too old, but, if they could, most of 'em would prefer this Northwest. It must be pretty well ideal. I love the desert and the mountains, equally. This prairie, Palouse, every darned inch of it is beautiful. So I don't know. If I had of been on those covered wagon trains that were goingthrough so much to get to Oregon, now I drive through Laramie and all that area and into Fort Hallown the Boise Valley, and up to Vale and up through Baker. Iwouldn't have gone through that, I'd have 'broke my wagon down and stayed there. There's many places that they went through that they couldn't have improved it, I don't care where they went. Climate wise, the Boise Valley, there's production. Chinaman could see it when he came, that he could irrigate from the abundant water there is there, why they went through it, I don't know.

SS: How do you think this country stacks up with places like that?

GG: Well, it's amystery to me, I don't know. Salmon, Idaho, that's where they hit the Snake River. There were a few dropped off. And if they went into cattle or sheep or horses, made tremend ous fortunes. If they tried to grow grain, it took one generation to clear it up and get it into prod uction and then it took the next generation to lose it through a bankrupt sale. And that was the case in the Yakima and Wenatchee Valleys. One generation to homestead it, and the next generation put it in orchard and the next generation lost it through foreclosed mortgages.(Laughter)

SS: That didn't happen too bad around here though, did it?

GG: It didn't around right here, but that's just built right into the history of all that orchard country.

SS: What happened, do you know?

GG: Oh, cost of developing was so big, and the slowness of bringing it into actual production, one working against the other was just too much to drag down through the years. Was a lot of 'em made it. They had to know that they had to get right in and dig, you know, instead of waiting for the orchard to produce, they had to have something producing between- garden stuff or alfalfa hay or eggs, or something. They made it, and they made it good. There was another class that didn't. Idon't know what governed it. I have no idea.

SS: It seems like around here, too, there were a lot of people that left, didn't stay, didn't wind up staying. Idon't know why some did and some didn't here, either. They didn't have to leave here, they could have managed to make a living, couldn't they?

GG: Most of 'em would have been better off if they'd have the stick-to-itive enough, all right, lots of perseverance to hang onto these places a little bit longer, conditions would have got better and they'd made it. Now there's many of these Bowman family, John Bowman's family, and W over here, they're scattered all over the country that made it and made it darn good. But it would get tough, and they'd think, "Oh, God, I can make four dollars a day, five dollars a day working in the woods, or three and a half working in a sawmill." And they'd get discouraged and pull out and go and do it. Well, if they had of stuck tight to their farm even tually wound up on the right side of the ledger, I'm sure. There's one class of people that likes to work for a boss and another class of people that don't want to work for aboss. Sometimes they don't have the ability to manageheir own without aboss, but, they've still got it in their heart to go that route anyway.

SS: A lot of people out here when you were growing up in the teens, the twen ties, there was more money in the cities, wasn't there, than to stay on the farm and work? Wasn't that why you would go to Spokane to try to work 'cause it looked like there'd be money to make there?

GG: No, I always thought I could make more money out here, but I had to try it, I had to see what it's like. I didn't know, I thought, you know, they had their shows and their dances and lots of excitement, lots of thrills. Well, this out here was kind of alone, you know, you weren't, well, you weren't working with ten or fifteen people on an every day job. Probably were working where you'd only see two or three people or four or a family all week, and then on Saturday night you might go to a dance or go to town, but there was that difference. I had to try it, that's all. And after I tried1I wonder— I had all the town life I wanted.

Why— about that time there was a dozen of these young guys went to different towns: Spokane, Seattle, Portland, and they're still there, some of 'em are wealthy, too. Some of 'em are tremendously wealthy. But I think I was about the only one that could get my belly full of it in six months. The thing that made the biggest impression on me about city life: I had to walk about a mile from where I lived to where I worked, probably more than a mile, and walk up Main Street and Trent Avenue where I could see all the poverty exem plified in the people on the street, and I think that drove me out more than anything else. I'd sooner be hard up out in the country than in the city. You couldn't be hurt out in the country. If you couldn't get a job you still could eat, honestly. You'd get enough jobs to eat and clothe you, while in town, if got out of a job i were out of everything next week, 'cause you never could save enough money for next week. I think that's what filled me up on the city. It didn't look good to me.

SS: What kind of shape were people in? Was it pretty bad, people that didn't have work, in Spokane?

GG: Desperate. They couldn't get a job, they couldn't get a dollar, they couldn't get credit. There was no Relief, no unemployment. There was nothing, they were just on their own. It didn't look like the right kind of a life 1:0 me. I didn't figure on being in that bracket, I figured if I was going to be there I'd have a job, and I'd have some security, but there was always this, always sickness, businesses that youwere going broke, and all those things didn't look good.

SS: What did you do when you were working there?

GG: I worked at the Oliver Plow Company. I had a good job. They'd get in a carload of machinery, farm equipment, andAit was our job to set it up and paint it and display it. And somebody from Palouse'd send in a big order for repair parts, and it was our job to go and dig them out of the bins and get 'em ready to ship. And the Oliver Plow Company decided that they would move to Portland and they wanted me to go with them. Offered me a good job down there, a little better than what I had, but I thought I had seen enough. I went back to the woods. In my estimation the city life was unattractive, and the man that knew the city and that was his life, thought tbere couldn't be anything lower than to go back in the dingweeds anda logging camp or afarm. Just adifferent opinion, that's all. I don't know who was right.

SS: A lot of those people had come out of the country?

GG: Most of 'em, most of 'em. I think those kids that were raised in the city as competing with the came in from the country, the country kid would forge ahead of rule. They caught on quicker, adapted themselves more to new faster than the kid that had been raised on the pavement, sort of like people coming from the East liked the West so much ley don't take it for granted so much, you know what I mean. Peofrom the country, maybe they could see the city— maybe they

SS: Maybe it's because the pie coming could see what was going on a little more clearly than those raised in the

GG: was that, but it was a matter of, well, the country kid had a revolving condition and the city kid had seen routine; day the same. I know as a country kid there never was two days alike, always change. I think that's why they adapted faster. But I if that's right, but I think it is. point of view of the city person, the country life would look changed, probably. The same day in and day out.

GG: think so. Just the seasonal change was enough. 'Cause you get someerent in every season that came up in front of you. And then— walk through those seasons with me and what it was like, when kid on the farm?, you say the seasonal work was real different, depending on I'm just wondering what it was like. I meant by that, it was invariably changing— you put in the watch it grow, you took care of the crop, up to the finishing then you went on to something else. And then you harvested it.

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SS: How did mo wasn't much your neigh

GG: Oh, they would've came close, but we've never have had it. In 1926, I was and getting a dollar a day, driving eight horses on disc and every day and every day the wind blew and it was cold, in a few minutes, and maybe it'd snow a few minutes, and you'd the clothes you could get but you'd stand up on that disc or you'd freeze. And when that season was over I told ' I am to drive horses again for anybody else to put in a season of I didn't either. I drove them for myself when the conditions better but it always seemed to me that whenever those cone bad,— I never farmed over a couple of hundred acres at any life and I'd keep it rotated so that if it was too darn bad I i to stay out there and take it, I could pull out and do someuntil the weather got better and then go back out and do it. other hand, there's been seasons when I was crowded with my d have to stay right out there and take it, but it didn't seem it for myself, as it was (End o$ 'c J t of the neighbors get by, as far as making a living when there money to be had? Did most of them work for Potlatch, most of someplace, yeah. They did, but they kept their cows, they chickens, hogs. They got their own wood.

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But mostly they paid cash, or maybe you up a cow and trade for the winter's wood, or maybe they'd couple of hogs, or they'd bring you a new set of harness, not but a set of harness, or some machine that you might need or anything. Barter, at times, was more important, relevant to a than actual cash. It was pretty nice to cut, oh, say ten cords then add a pretty nice heifer to the herd. Maybe she wouldn't go into production right away, but she was growing and she's going to pro duce after while, he had a future there, anyway. I traded wood for just erything that a man had on his place at some time or other. Plows, discs, drills, harrows, horses, cows, pigs, chickens, wheat. They didn't have money and I didn't either, but we needed these things. Maybe they'd bought it two dollars and a half and bring it up here and sell it to e and a half, fine and dandy. That was better'n me giving for it new. So it was a fair deal, — I don't know, you trade was with people from Colfax and the Palouse, or was it be likely anybody? I was just wondering where most of — who most of the trading was done with.'Cause it seems like around on the river there would have wood and people down around want to get it.

You know, these roads used to be lined, like they are with cars, used to be lined with teams and horses hauling wood. They were about this time of year when the crop was in and before haying) a few loads of wood. They'd come up today and back tomorrow, cash or they had something to trade, or if they didn't have, quainted, as you and I are, and they could trust each other, And it didn't matter what they brought up from down there, Id use it. And it didn't matter what they took back from up ody could use it. Around Potlatch there in 1930 to '39 half ion cut wood, hauled it into Potlatch, got three dollars a ok it out in groceries or trading with the stores, either.

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any money. Some of 'em could cut wood, some of 'em would come me with my haying and a few of 'em worked. The railroad crew, crew, supervisory, I had enough of them to keep me solvent. And customers in there that couldn't make a dime, they couldn't get ything. And I just kept right on delivering them milk, if they ot, I might as well do that as take eleven cents for it. So I the time we got to 1935, I'd sold the business to my brother, just practically gave it to him and I took my cattle and horses and moved up on that place at Harvard. And people would pay l:hree dollars or a dollar or two or five dollars or two until wound up, I lost twenty dollars on one man, and one man only that people I dealt with in Potlatch, beat me out of twenty dolhe did it deliberately. He just moved out of town one night, hook or crook the rest of 'em squared every dime of it. ine you kept reminding them of it, they knew it themselves owed you the money. any of 'em for a dollar or a dime. Never. They'd cut wood Glen, I got a cord of wood." "Fine and dandy." And Lije Brown else — Brown from Thornton out there between Spokane and d be up in a few days. And there'd be two or three of 'em have wood a piece. He'd load them up and take 'em to Thornton and be back in a few days, he'd have nine dollars or maybe a horse, er. Truck load of harness. Anything. An old sow. (Chuckles) didn't matter, you could bring up anything you want to, selling about a hundred and twenty five quarts of milk and geteen and a half cents a quart— I think I bought fourteen or fifnd had one or two that I took with me, three horses and farm enough to farm that place, and I had another place across the

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at the next stop and stop, and they did that all over town. , they knew it as well as I did. And old Jess, I'd been gone iilk route about four years, and I was driving her through town way, and we come to Les Flash's house and that old mare pulled jped, four years after she'd come off that milk route. You know, be going around the block one way and I'd be going the other ple'd stop 'em and hold 'em until I come back and found 'em. didn't know what was going on, strangers. You know, I don't :o what extent a horse could think and figure but a whole lot :hey were given credit for. Funny part of it was, when they'd stop to stop they'd move in a good brisk trot, they wouldn't sail right along and when they got to the right place, they'd and stop. I had eight head on a plow up there at Harvard or, the Webster boys, came over there and they crawled up on walked along, and I just hitched the lines around the plow rolled a cigarette. And they said, "You've got that team pret- , to do that." "Yeah" I thought they were. I never toulines until we come back to the same place. They made that corners on that field and never missed an inch, and I never . They'd been doing it month in and month out, year in and year as natural to 'em as breathing.

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e way behind on the rent. They didn't dress too fancy. They est they could and I admire 'em yet. I've got friends over there ybody says anything about Glen Gilder that isn't just right up they'41 still fight for me! And I've got others over there that I never done a decent thing in my life, I expect, most everyor me to believe you have any enemies over then, Glen. I have. That's something I've never had a whole lot of. a couple or three that were pretty bitter towards me until ings figured out. Might take 'em ten years, but they figure they're pretty good friends now, if they're still alive, they're friends. I never bothered anybody, I never— I'd sooner— I'd walk away from a man, I wasn't afraid of him, I never been anything in my life. But I always figured it was wrong to fight a point. I never had to a great deal. But I figured if anytrying to really slip something over on me, I wouldn't hesitate what I thought about it. It generally didn't cause too much gs. Generally knew in their own mind that I was right or I have said anything. But, I've made mistakes, made mistak es in end, misinterpret somebody's actions or attitudes or words, lly figure 'em out, it generally boils down. M-rftVrY-nS otT". of the guy George was talking about when we were up talking guy that he knew that he couldn't trust at all, he stole said that you just knew that guy well enough to watch him. him real close, you remember,

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what we wanted to do that night, or go to a show. Go to the liked to go down to the Golden Gloves Club and watch those , there was entertainment, but twenty-two or three dollars a fd pay your board— all this entertainment come out of your u just didn't have it. So, we did enjoy ourselves, I'm pretty when you wanted a new shirt, you saved up to get it, and it'd you two weeks to save that much. And I liked it out in the e you didn't need a new shirt. (Chuckles) day at work? (Machine was turned out and resumed later) extra man around there he didn't like, and he was trying to man canned, and as a result of it they kinda got into a of a strike and I was on a day crew, my crew was on a day crew— was on the graveyard, and the other camp was on the aftertake this oneffcept agitating things until he got the crew all tothey was to go up and talk to the chief engineer and get this Ived. And as long as Winmeyer had instigated the whole thing, was responsible to go and do as everybody elee. I made a my fires and down in the pump room and seen that the engines ght up into the big engine room and over at the stairway, the turbin room and there was Winmeyer alone. And I says, score, Harry?" I says, "The other boys all gone home?" "No, in the turbin room." I said, "How come you're not up there?" 't think they needed me." And I popped him right between the and he backed off and I went up and give him another. The engtanding right behind me and I thought sure','l'm canned. I don't ." If that son of a bitch's gonna instigate this strike and guys take the blame for it, it ain't right. And I popped three times and he took off and he run up them God damned stairs ther and he run clear in with the rest of the boys!!

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for a day or two. I never seen any of the men get hurt at Although there were some got hurt there during that time. And Moscow I got this hand caught in a chain and down here at ossl 5 ght in a car door and lost a finger. Unavoidable as could be, guess the only way to avoid it is just not to have been there, my job, both times, some pretty serious accidents there. e some men killed. Ray Potter oiling out in the mill reached e belt of this Corliss engine to the drive shaft up in the mill caught on his clothes and drug him in there and he went around belt in that wheel and, hell, there was two hundred and fifty essure to the inch on that belt, I imagine, just flattened him 't see it. There was a fella fell into the slasher saws over e slasher saws are sixteen inches apart and about that high, crosswise of that damn thing. How he ever got out of it 't know. It cut off an arm and part of a foot. Somebody seen the chain or he'd a just been cut up in little pieces, been some bad accidents around the mill. It used to be conhigh rated hazardous. Anymore, they've got the money and the laws and they've got the safety inspection, that isn't enmuch, but a little. And modern machinery that keeps people

[lots of text garbled, missing -- see transcript PDF file]

1:00 - The Palouse flour mill; trading wheat with local farmers

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: The Palouse flour mill. Trading sacks of wheat for sacks of flour and by products. The good business with local farmers.

8:00 - Stage business on the Palouse before Potlatch was founded

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Segment Synopsis: Stage stops on the Palouse before the town of Potlatch began, Men walked in while the stage carried their belongings; Art Craig's stage became a livery business. Old Hoodoo Trail.

18:00 - Famous Desperado Henry Plummer's horse business at Laird Park

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Henry Plummer, famous desperado, used cabins at Laird Park in his horse business.

21:00 - Mox Mox's horse herds in eastern Washington; Glen's father picked up a wild horse

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Mox Mox had tremendous horse herds in eastern Washington, Glen's father picked up a wild horse and used her to produce young.

27:00 - Injustices done to the Native Americans; Native American Faith

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Segment Synopsis: The injustice whites did to the Indians. The whites almost always started the trouble. The Indians believed in God before the missionaries came; the missionaries preached different faiths, and did more harm than good.

30:00 - Vigilantes from Colfax cleaned up the country

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Colfax vigilantes were needed to clean up the country. There is more crookedness now than there used to be.

36:00 - Northwest was desirability to people in California and the Southwest; Difficulties of making it with farms or orchards

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Desirability of Northwest to people in California and the Southwest. Why didn't people leave their wagon trains when they passed through the inland country? Difficulty of making it with farms or orchards in early days.

41:00 - People left the area instead of sticking with it

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Segment Synopsis: Many people who left this area would have come through all right is they had stuck with it longer but they were attracted to better wages.

44:00 - Glen worked for six months in Spokane; Dislike of ciy people

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Segment Synopsis: Why Glen went to work in Spokane, and why he only stayed for six months. Poverty in Spokane. Working for Oliver Plow Company. Dislike of city people for country. Country boys did better than city boys in city.

52:00 - Work changed with the season; weather rarely cause crop failure

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Frequent changes of work with the season. Variability of weather has always been true of area. Rare troubles with rain or frost have never caused total crop failure. Wife's parents had crop failures in Dakota.

59:00 - Disliked farming for Lou Kegley

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Segment Synopsis: In 1926 he farmed for Lou Kegley in terrible weather, and decided not to work for someone else again.

60:00 - How people got by; The importance of water; trading wood for supplies

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: How people got by. People without much land worked out. People always had plenty to eat. Great importance of water. Trading wood for everything.

75:00 - The importance of Potlatch to small farmers

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Segment Synopsis: Importance of Potlatch Lumber Company to small farmers. Working for Potlatch;driving a hack to work at Potlatch from far in the country.

83:00 - Stability of the population

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Segment Synopsis: Stability of population. Some left, but many stayed and became successful. Newcomers were accepted, and then proved themselves.

87:00 - Selling milk during the depression in Potlatch; Potlatch during the depression

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Selling milk in Potlatch during the Depression. He delivered to those who had no money, and lost $20 all told. Struggling through. The team knew the route. Potlatch in the Depression.

100:00 - Dealing with friends and foes; Entertainment and loneliness in Spokane

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Friends and foes - dealing with people who are trying to take you. Closeness of people. Entertainment and loneliness in Spokane.

107:00 - Glen gets a Potlatch crew head's job after beating him up for good cause.

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Glen gets a Potlatch crew head's job after beating him up for good cause.

118:00 - Working a steam engine; Injuries and accidents in the mill

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Segment Synopsis: Learning to be a steam engineer. Firing the Corliss engine at Potlatch. Getting injured by a steam hose. Larry Potter killed in accident by Corliss engine. Injury in the slasher saws.

120:00 - Frank Herzog's father amputated his own toe to cure his corn

Play segmentSegment link

Segment Synopsis: Frank Herzog's father cut his toe off with a pocket knife and carbolic acid to cure his corn.

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