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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: November 18, 1976 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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SS: Were you still a little kid?

ROY GLENN: I was one year old when we come to Juliaetta- where we landed. We stopped on American Ridge up therefor a few years and then we moved over on the Potlatch and I spent all the rest of my years- I'll be se venty-four years old New Year's Day- and we've been here ever since.

SS: Do you know why it was they picked this part of the country to come toout West?

RG: Well, some of my folks earlier, my mother's folks had come West and settled in American Ridge and so that's why we followed. Yes, it's a better country out here they figured. And so they'd been back, they'd been out here then they'd been back to North Carolina and told us a bout it, so we come West then.

SS: Who were they? Their name?

RG: Well, Woody. And then also, Martin Thomas, used to be the big banker here; he was related to my mother, too. So he had been back there, so we all come West. Let's see, my mother and my grandparents and my father, of course, - and who else came?- My mother's brother came, too. And we all arrived out here and we ve been here ever since. And my folks has passed on my uncles has all passed on.

SS: Did your father farm back there in Carolina?

RG: No, he worked in the woods most of the time, and he was atellin' me that he also worked in a- for the government. And he worked in a government distillery when they made whiskey in North Carolina. He worked for the government distillery. Now she was born on Fix Ridge, she's been here all her life.

SS: Oh, I didn't know. What was your maiden name?

MABEL RICHARDSON GLENN: Richardson

RG: Richardson.

RG: My folks come here from Oregon in 1893 and they landed in Genesee, farmed there for a little while- a place near Genesee, then they moved and bought this on Fix Ridge and lived there ever since and I was born and raised there til met him and then I went to Texas Ridge.

SS: Was that land on Fix Ridge, was that naturally prairie land at the time, or was that cleared? Do you know? Where they were?

RG: Where?

SS: I was wondering was that land on Fix Ridge where they were was cleared land or just never had any trees on it.

RG: When they came, they bought it from people the name of Dew and it was cleared land but it had a great big orchard on it.

RG: He means was it prairie land or timber land?

RG: It was prairie land. Uh-huh.

SS: A lot of that Fix Ridge was, wasn't it?

RG: Yes, you bet.

RG: Bunchgrass they always called it.

RG: American Ridge was too until you get up towards Troy, you know. That was prairie land, and that's why old Martin Thomas homesteaded up on American Ridge, and you could have another 160 if you had a preemption of trees. So he set out five acres of trees to get another 160 with a homestead.

SS: Wasn't he about the biggest farmer there for a while?

RG: Oh, yeah. Then he was also president of the Kendrick State Bank here for years and years.

SS: How did he do so well? Is it just he was here earlier, or what was it that gave him the leg up?

RG: Yeah, he was just here early to start with. Yeah, that's where he got started. Yeah.

SS: Had your parents owned land at Genesee when they lived there?

RG: No.

SS: They were kind of looking for a place?

RG: Looking for a place. Then they traded— they had a place in Oregon and they made a trade somehow.

SS: Did your parents, when they came out, did they have much money to start out with, or did they just have to start from scratch here?

RG: Uh-huh. Yes, my dad worked on farms and he was also a carpenter and he done lots of carpenter work and stuff. That's how we survived for years and years. And of course, us family- they had a family; they was five boys and three girls in the family and they raised all of us. Yeah, we survived.

SS: Where was the farm then that you grew up on? Where was it?

RG: It was over here on the Potlatch Ridge and it wasn't too big a place. And we lived there on a small place then they rented a farm there and - a bigger farm and we grew up there and went to school and then after I got grown and all I got to thinking about going to the army and I didn't go to the army, so got to thinking about getting married and I met her and we been married for forty^eight years. And we lived on Texas Ridge up here. Our ranch is up on Texas Ridge. We go back and forth here. And the reason we're here is, we just had girls and they was in school and this was the school that we had to send 'em to, and there's bad years a getting in and out for the snow; lots of snow up there, so we got ahold of this place. They've all been through school and we're here by ourselves now, but we still— There was no school here, it was up on the hill in town so they bought this land. Now that land come off of this place before we bought the place, they got this land off of it - the school is here.

SS: Where on Potlatch Ridge? Were you near Leland?

RG: We was west of Leland, about four miles. Yeah, we was about four miles west of Leland.

SS: So what was it like when you were growing up here, when you were just a kid?

RG: Oh, it was quite different, I'll tell you. We had horses and we had all stock on the ranches, you know. It's about four miles to Leland, that used to be a little town up there and at one time we was just reading in the paper here not long ago that at one time six hundred people got their mail at Leland. That was just a small burg. You had good stores and blacksmith shop. Course, that was one of the great things in early day, was the blacksmith shop in a community, because thats the way you kept things arollin'. If you had a good smith in the country, you know, why, they done most of work for the machinery. Yes, and it was all horses at that time. We were just talking a few days ago; when they go to plow now, they don't make any difference whether it's dry or what it is, they can plow, but them days when you had the horses, you had to wait til you had moisture enough that the horses could pull it, you know. And the plows wasn't made to stay in the ground like they are now. All that was that way. Then our grain. There used to be a tram up on th€ ridge and they'd haul their grain over to this tram and it run by a cable and it had braces of buckets on it and they'd put their grain on these buckets in sacks and they'd take 'em off down at the bottom. Well, in Juliaetta, that was another tram, but that rttn on cars. They had two cars on the cables, and three^many a time and had three rails, but right in the middle of it there was four rails, so to pass they just one- went a little wider. Well, they'd pile your grain on that and run it down to Juliaetta. Put it on the train down there, they had a warehouse there. They didn't haul too much down the grade at that time, you know, therroads was rough and rocky to haul on, and if they could get it run down that way, why, that's the way they got a lot of their grain to the terminal down here.

SS: Was it really dangerous to use those roads for hauling at that time?

RG: Oh, well, no faster than you went it wasn't too much for the horses. Then as your old trucks that started in- the first of 'em was solid tires, you know. Well, a few of them come in and a few years later then they started agettin' small trucks. And we was just alookin' at one at Juliaetta- they got one down there at Juliaetta as a relic- i believe it was 19 and 22 or something like that, it was bought. That's about one of the first pneumatic tires they had, you know. And some body picked it up out of the junk and they had it arunnin' down there the other day. And to think there's stuff like that. We had onewell, when we got married, why, we, the folks and us had one and we an old-timer we got in the '30's and it's the same kind and you'd haul twenty-seven sacks of grain to town. That's a pretty g ood load! But it sure has changed that way. But everybody had horses and everybody had cows purtnear, and that was your survival. At that time it took about a fourth of 160 to feed the cows and the horses, what you raised on it, so that's what took up a lot of the stuff. nowdays it's all done by big machinery and that's put on the market. And of course the population is increased a lot, but still that's what makes your overproduction at the present time is because it's all put on the mar ket instead of like it used to be.

SS: What kind of crops would you be getting on the Potlatch Ridge in those earlier years? Was it a good yield then?

RG: Oh, yes. Now, one of the things they raised was beans. You know, we cultivated and hoed 'em you know, and that was a good crop, but on this ground you'd get a real good crop of grain after beans. You would get a lot better crop on beans ground than you would pea ground. ground was always clean. You had to cultivate beans, they was in rows, you know, and you'd cultivate them and then you'd also hoe 'em. And it took a lot of the young folkses time There was always kids wantin' to hoe beans, you know, they'd get a little money in the sum mer. That was a livelihood, you know for the family for the kids to get a little job a hoein' beans here and there.

RG: Then they'd have to cut 'em and then they'd have to pile 'em.

RG: Yeah, you'd cut 'em and then pile 'em. And when they maturedA haul 'em out in the wagons, you know, and put 'em in the thrashing machine. That took a lot of work. There was a lot of work-

RG: Then before the thrashing machine come they'd have a of horses and they'd tramp 'em out and you'd bring those beans in and these horses, have 'em on a flat surface, you see, and these horses would go around and tramp out these beans and you'd pick 'em up- pick up the straw and them it out then you'd pick up the beans.

RG: Yeah, they was a lot of ways that they done in them days.

SS: How come the beans? Were they better than peas at that time? Well, we had better ground after beans. But here come the peas along and they wasn't so much work to harvest them. And then our machinery changed. Here come the combines, you know. Well, in the beans, most of the time until the last few years you had to haul 'em and put 'em in a threshing machine you thrashed early grain in. They thrashed beans just like the grain, only in your machine you- about all you done - just your cyclinder down, so you didn't crack the beans and thrashed 'em with that same thrashing machine, If would take

RG: thirty and thirty-five bean thrashing. . ' like on the Ridge up there-

SS: Was that enough to make 'em give up beans?

RG: Well, seem like that they went to that more because they didn't have to have as much work to it and then these here combines, you know, these later ones, they could just- one man could cut a whole field of peas. The other way you had a lot of people working, and that's whyand I used to think that's that's what makes unemployment. The kids didn't have anything to do. Oh, yeah, they done a lot of that.

What else did you kids do?

Oh-Work. Was there anything else besides the beans?

Not too much work besides beans and helping in the hay. If you was big enough to help in the hay, you'd have to help put up hay. And stuff like that was about the biggest thing there was for a kid to do. And milk cows. I started milking cows when I was four years old. Yes.

There was all that work around the house. Just chores?

Oh, yes, you bet. Everybody had chores. They pretty near everybody had hogs and they had chickens and they had cows, and you had chores to do and that, you know. And horses. Oh, yeah, it was a dif ferent altogether than the present day. We have big farmers now that hasn't got an animal on the place. It's different, we got animals and I guess we always will have because we are used to 'em and we like 'em. And maybe they don't make us too much money but then it's in the livlihood of people.

SS: Well, at that time though didn't your family depend on all that stuff? wasn't going and buying stuff at the store at all.

RG: Oh, no. You raised pretty near everything; your pork and your beef when you had some. And in them days though, they didn't have any coolers to keep this stuff in like you ' you know, your pork you pretty near had to cure it you see. Well, they had ways of curing pork and that was one of your main meats and then they'd always raise quite a few chickens and you could butcher a chicken any time you wanted fresh chicken;, fresh meat. And that was another thing that helped and they all had gardens. That was another thing which they don't do in the present day. That was their livlihood, you bet it was! Yes. After we was married in the Depression, milked cows and if you got sometimes, two dollars and thirty-five cents for five gallon can of cream, well, that wasn't very much, but your groceries wasn't much and you could still survive. I was just areadin' this little paper here; just read you some of the things that happened. They had something in here thatabout what the prices was at the later years- oh, shoot, I was just areadin' something in here just before you come in- Oh, yes, - what the heck was it? Blewitt's Cash Grocery advertised these breakfast items; Swift's bacon thirty-five cents a pound! Sperry hotcake and waf fle flour, ten pound bag fifty-five cents. New shipments of Albers rolled oats twenty-nine cents a package. Now that was in 1936, so you know long before that is when— I tell you, one thing I got to seethey built a new bank here a few years back. Well, the old bank was here, and when they had taken the books from the old bank, there's a business done Itik that old bank was just wrote every day. They had a big book about this big and this guy just wrote the business out. Well, I went down all this list, I happened to get to see this for 1910, that's when this was. My dad had ten dollars and seventyfive cents in the bank. A lot of people had three or four dollars. And the most on deposit that was on that book - his name was Albers and he lived on Bear Ridge and he had $335 in the bank. Now you can guess about how the A- well, one man could run the bank at that time in 1910, you know. And all this instead of- now down here they tell me they have to make six copies of everything that goes through this down here. Well, one man just wrote out the business, every day and then the next day it was a new page over here and starting what business was done and he'd just keep it wrote out. Now that's the way it was in 1910. So you know there wasn't too much money changing hands dont but they was quite a lot of tradin'. You trade somethin' you raised for somebody that had somethin' that you wanted and that's the way they go about the business, a lot of it.

SS: You mean, it was just trading between the farmers?

RG: Yeah, a lot of the stuff would be just kind of traded. That's why they survived, you know, because they didn't have money to buy with but probably this fellow had something you wanted, and if you had something that you could interest him in.it was a trade. But in town, stuff was so cheap in them years that,well, that was 1910. Now 1906 and '07 was a lot- I saw a note that a fellow had to give; he bought three dollars worth of spuds from a neighbor and he didn't have ncjthing he wanted, so he give him a note for three hundred pounds of spuds and he paid him a dollar a year for the spuds, but he had to pay twelve percent in terest on thatl Now that's the way it was in the early days here. But the land- well, nobody was in a hurry about buyin' somebody else's land like it is now. If you had some land and that was your home, that's just about all you wanted; if you had a place to live. But now it's gone the other way. But I was just gonna tell you, they was a lot of trouble in the land in them days though. If you owned some land, no body was gonna get it away from ya, unless they had some excuse. I was just thinkin'; there was two men killed just to establish a line fence. Two men got in an argument and one went and killed the other and then the other'n got scared and hung hisself and it said in the paper- that was in 1906 I think, they tell me, and I was just a kid, and they said in the records that they was two men lost their lives to establish a line fence in Idaho! Well, that was in the national, you know.

SS: Was this on Texas Ridge?

RG: That's right.

SS: What happened to the man that killed the other guy? First he shot the other guy and then he hung himself?

RG: Yeah. He run off in the canyon to get away from the law and he star ved out. In about three days he come to a neighbors house and the nei ghbor was gone and he went in to get something to eat. Well, the nei ghbor come while he was there. Now that was before my time, -^o remem ber much, but I've been in this house where he hung hisself and they told me all about it. And so the man that lived there said he had to report it to the officers that he'd come and so he didn't want him to but in this house; it was a fine log house and in the upstairs they'd had long logs went through but they'd never- the floor was just about half of the house. They had beds up there and they had a good stairway and while this fellow went to get the sheriff, why, he goes up this stairway where the floor was, you know, and put a rope around one of these big old rafters and then he jumped off of there and when they come back, why, he was ahangin' there dead, so they both lost their lives. So then they got the court, and they sent surveyors out and they surveyed this fence and set it on the line and I farmed this place for a long time, where this fence was there, you know. And it said in the records there thatlife-to establish a line fence cost two lives in Idaho.

SS: I guess the land really meant something.

RG: Oh, it did in a way. It was yours and you wasn't going to get a foot of it! Well, we had neighbors that after we went to Texas Ridge that had a Devil's Lane- now you know what that is? And fence it; your fence was here and his was here, they wouldn't join fences with you. But this land in between there; each one looked after his fence and they called that the Devil's Lane. Because we had some of that on our ridge after we was married there; still had a Devil's Lane fence. So you can see right there that they had a hard time with their la nd and no body was going to get any for nothing.

SS: If you had a fence like that, would that just mean you didn't trust your neighbor to keep on the line? Right?

RG: I guess that's what it'd be. Yeah, he didn't want him- you didn't want him on your place, either. And that was the line that he put out- Yeah, they had that.

SS: Well, on that Devil's Lane; did that just get all brushy?

RG: Oh, yeah.

SS: You couldn't walk through it?

RG: Nobody'd walk through it, they didn't want to be on it, you know. And it'd just be a little strip along there.

SS: How wide maybe?

RG: oh, this wide. But they wouldn't put fences with the other fellow. Now days, you know, it's "You take so much and I'll take so much." But that's the way it was in the early days. It happened that way lots of different places, that they had Devil's Lanes.

SS: They figured, too, maybe that the other guy wouldn't keep up his fence.

RG: Well, not toomuch of that. They'd both have pretty good fence, But most neighbors got along good. Once in a while they had trouble.

SS: Was it hard to get land at that time? I mean, if you wanted to farm like you say you had a little place-

RG: No, it wasn't hard if you had some money. There was fellows that owned a lot of land they got it in different transactions, you know, and it was for rent. A lot of land was rented; an awful lot of land in them days was rented. Some farmer come along- we used to rent bean ground. If you was a young fellow, you could- if you had any horses you could plow or work, you could rant bean ground from some fellow on shares and then he'd take it and plant it to wheat, you know, after wards. You'd make a little money in the summer. A young feller could get a little money out of it. And that's the way some of 'em got a lit tle start. If you happened to hit a year that the price was pretty do good and the beans were pretty good, you might pretty good on it. And they was lots of little old lumbermills around here them days, and they could always- when you got old enough to work at that you could pick up a little job. Yeah, they was a lot of little mills, lumbermills all over the country.

SS: But that wouldn't be the year around or nothing. That'd just be a seasonal thing? Right?

RG: Yeah. In the summer. And in the winter sometimes they cut logs and hauled em on to the mill with the horses. And them days you couldn't haul very far, you know, with the horses. But when the snow was on, sleighing, well, that was when it was a good time to haul a few logs to the sawmill, you know.

SS: Was there quite a few mills around here, too?

RG: Oh, yeah.They was a lot of little mills. Yeah, even after we was mar ried they was little mills up on our ridge all around. Get a atch of timber and set up a little sawmill and saw the lumber. Yeah. They used to be a sawmill right the other side of this schoolhouse here for two-three years, wasn't they?

RG: Yeah.

RG: And then down below town here where this shop is there, that used to be a sawmill. And then up on Cedar Ridge here, they used to be saw mills and back of Leland and Southwick country, you know, they been a lot of sawmills there and not too many years back. But that land's all cleared up pretty near now. They come in here with these big tractors, you know, and they soon take the timber off n there and^they clear the land and start farming.

SS: Would the samwill be owned by just one man?

RG: Sometimes it would, yeah.

SS: And he'd just move it around from place to place?

RG: Well, he'd usually set one in where there's timber. Now on Cedar Creek up here, Mr. Darby had a sawmill- he's passed on now- but that was there for years. And it was right in a country where they's lots of timber and lots of people worked for him. And a lot of times he'd saw in the winter, too if it wasn't too cold. You know that was the problem. They just haA roofs over 'em, you know. Yeah, they done a lot of sawin'. But then they d saw the logs a lot in the winter and haul 'em the mill on a sled so they'd have 'em for the spring.

SS: He'd have a crew of men that would stay right there?

RG: Yup. And the neighbors around there'd work a lot, you know. There'd be a house here and a cabin over there and somethin'. Survival wasthem days, seemed like was about all they thought about. Nobody cared too much about being rich. It was survival. Well, a lot of these old canyon places that nobo^ thinks about livin (in)-

SIDE B

SS: crews and all that, when you were growing up.

RG: Oh, yeah.

SS: Would that be the main way that some people would make money? For a year?

RG: Yup. They'd go out and harvest. See, you had to cut this grain, shock it, and then you had to run it through the machine, well, you didn't have too many machines and it took a long time. If you had a job with a machine it'd last a long time; forty days or sometimes longer than that. And they'd pay you for that and then if you'd home you'd have a garden and stuff, and so, that's the way they'd make enough money to get through on.

SS: So that might be for some of these, for some folks, that would maybe be the only real employment that they would have?

RG: That's right.

SS: They could still get by? Still survive on that?

RG: And raise a family. But it didn't cost much them days. We did have an old catalogue here once. What was that 1906 or something like that wasn't it? You got a man's suit of clothes for three dollars and a half!

SS: Would guys raising a family like that, would they be thought of as lacking ambition if they didn't have anything but a job?

RG: No, no, that was the only way they survived and they was good workers, too, and stuff like that. Some of our best men worked like that. Now, in town here where the bank is, there is no trees there at that time and that was - in the winter people d have some grain at home,where they thrashed and they'd keep it, you know. But in the winter sleig hing was gettin' good and they'd haul it to town on the sled. And everybody'd bring feed for their horses and they'd feed there in that lot, you know, feed their horses and they'd bring their own lunch, usually and that's where they'd spend the noonhour. And then from this ridge and that ridge and all, and then they'd start home. And everybody knew everybody. That's the way it turned out.

SS: So they visited? They did a lot of visiting in town here?

RG: Oh, yeah. And while their horses was eatin' and all, they'd eat their lunch. Everybody knew thatAhe was a farmer and knew pretty near the other feller, you know. And that's the way it turned out.

SS: Was there places to go inside, to get warm?

RG: Oh, yeah. Yeah, they had places. They had poolhalls and stuff, you know, they could go and set in there. Yup. Kendrick burned up in 1904. It was mostly wooden buildings and in 1904 they had a big fire in the summer and burned it up and all rebuilt after that. Built in different ways. That's why they got a lot of brick buildings. They used to have a brick kiln right down here across the bridge by town. And they made up all most the brick right here in town. Took the old clay off the hillside and put it through that and them places in town- most all homemade brick.

SS: I didn't know that.

RG: Yeah. Yeah.

SS: Who's place was that? That brick plant?

RG: Joe Fricktell owned it. And old guy by the name of Joe Fricktell run the plant.

SS: Pretty darn good brick.

RG: Oh, yes. He made good bricks here. Made a lot of buildings. Lot of these houses around here, that's where they's from and stuff.

SS: He had that plant before the fire started? Before the fire?

RG: He did, before the fire.

SS: And all of a sudden he had a lot of business.

RG: Oh, gosh, yes. He couldn't take care of the business, some of it had to be brought in, you know. They couldn't get enough here.

SS: Do you think it very long for them to get the town built the way it is now after that fire?

RG: Not too long. Everybody that was in business was startin's back to work on it, you know, and get things up. We had just come here, you know, I was tellin' you, and this old barn right up here is on our place and my dad, when we come to the country up - he got a job on a farm out here on American Ridge. Well, that fella, he run a farm and he also had the drayline in Kendrick. Everything was shipped in by rail and then delivered around town with a team, you know. Well, they used to keep their horses up in this barn. And my dad'd work on the farm and when they was quite a bit of business to deliver, why they'd have him come down here and help deliver stuff for the town. No, it soon started to grow right up again just after the fire. It wasn't too long til it was up and they built it up, the buildings, and I can recall the celebration. We went to the celebration and they didn't have any trees in town for shade, so they went over on the hilsdde, you know there's a lot of firs and stuff over there, and they'd take barrels and they'd cut off a tree, oh ten feet high or fifteen, maybe, and set it in there and then pile rocks in that barrel and that was the shade they had in town in the early days. That's the way they'd celebrate. It was awful hot down here and of course, the streets wasin the summer they was all dusty and in the winter it was all mud and stuff.

SS: Was this celebration you're talking about for the Fourth of July?

RG: That's right. That was a big thing here in them days. But now they just pretty near forget it. Oh, yes, if we got to go to the Fourth of July, that was a big day, you know it? Farmers would all go. That was the one day all figured on going And they'd all go see the neighbors and have a ballgame and horse races once in a while, and stuff like that. That was the entertainment. If you had twenty-five cents you could do pretty good at the celebration. Cost you a nickle for pretty near anything- you could get for a nickle!

SS: Does that mean that on Fourth of July, that the town would be mobbed with people from all over these ridges?

RG: Yes. Wherever they celebrated. Now sometimes they didn't celebrate in town, they'd celebrate in some place where there was a lot of shade trees or something. Now up there at Leland they didn't celebrate in town. But the trees is still there, a lot of 'em, they called that the park and they'd all meet in there and have a big day, but Kendrick Juliaetta would celebrate, that's the only places they had to be would be right in town.

SS: You know that fire there; did many people leave Kendrick, do you know?

RG: Not too many. Not too many.

SS: Most all the merchants went back into business?

RG: That's right. And then different ones- it was startin' a pretty good business town. Aba you know, the railroad had been coming through here and of course, earlier days they took in most of the stuff from Pierce come out of Kendrick when the mining days was on, see. Gold mine. And they come out- a lot of it out of Kendrick, so they'd been adoin' pret ty good just before the fire a while. I think the railroad come through here in 1891. Well, then, most of the stuff come from Moscow and then the railroad come of course, that opened up that whole country up north. They didn't have any railroad up the Clearwater, see, it all come from out of here. So that was quite a thing.

RG: In the early days they always told us about- this was a big part of the town, too. And the residences would be around here and they had wooden sidewalks. They didn't have this road there them days. It flooded all of 'em out.

RG: Yes this used to be- when the timber was back in the mountains here, this river would run, well, golly, it run big all summer. The snow would never- since the timber's cut off, it purt near dries up, you know, it gets awful low in the summer. But anyway, this road here was all level with this part here and they told us that the first bank that they had was an old time bank right here, and they had saloons here and when it was a floodin this'd flood so they built the side walks and they put 'em up on stilts; away up. And finally they had to put bannisters on 'em because the fellas'd get drunk when they's gambling here- they gambled here- and they'd fall into the river. So they had to put bannisters on 'em. Oh, we've had fellas here that told us in the early days, that this was the town when he was here.

SS: No kidding!

RG: The first stores was built here and then going out to Pierce, there's a little creek goes up here, and they just had a pack trail up that creek to go to Pierce. And that's the way they survived in here. Now these fellas had some farms up here but everything was fed up pretty near and utilized there you know, til they got this tram built to get it down here. They didn't have no road that you could get up and down with hardly anything at that early day.

SS: Then from here to Pierce was pack trail?

RG: Yeah.

SS: Would this be in the '90s?

RG: Yeah. And up then, even after the '90's. Up until, oh, 1903 and '04 and '06, along there, they still had the packtrails. See- Pierce waswell, there was really no road to it much, only packtrails untilthey finally built just some old wagon wagons; cut 'em out of the brush and then the sawmill went in. And then that's when they build the town as they made their own lumber. And there's old buildings in this country now that's built out of just the old rough lumber, see, and then they covered it over. That's the way most of the towns was them days.

SS: Well, I've heard that going from Peck around in that country, some peo ple before the railroad got up in there would come to Kendrick for their supplies.

RG: Oh, yeah. Oh, they did. The railroad was here and a lot of people come here, you bet. All this back country come in from here.

SS: All the way to Elk River, I'm sure.

RG: Oh, yeah, because this was the only way to get in.

SS: Well, say like your family; did they trade mostly in Kendrick? Or did they trade at Leland?

RG: Well, we traded mostly at Leland at the store. But if we had grain or stock; now we used to sell hogs, you know, and ship 'em from here, stuff like that, we'd have to bring them to Kendrick to get 'em out of here. But at the store- they had a freighter, they called 'em, and they had wagons and they'd get this stuff off of the rail down here at the depot and they'd take it to Leland, to the store there. And 4\tn that whole community traded there. So they didn't come to Kendrick too much, you know,they done their tradin', what we called at home, pretty near. We called that home them days. They had a big flour mill at one time beyond Leland. And made flour. And when the roads got so they could haul it, why, they'd store it and they'd ship it out of the country, you know, to other places. Oh, they had a mammoth big flour mill. And they had storage for quite a little grain. And they'd buy the grain and take it in there and clean it. You had to wash it them days, too, you know, like they do now. And so they had a big well fixed up so they could have plenty of water and they'd wash it. Then they had lots of feed there. They'd take your grain there and have your feed ground for your stock, you know. Then you'd take it back to the ranch. This big mill had a feed grinder, too, in the flour mill.

SS: They employ many people there?

RG: Not too many. Eight or ten I imagine. But I can remember the old man's name. The Old Man Zeigler was the flour mill maker. And old, old, fella. And he'd look after the flour department, and you'd see him sack the flour. In them days it didn't come out in paper sacks, it come out in muslin sacks, you know, white ones.

SS: Was there any waterpower for that mill?

RG: It was steam.

SS: Steam!

RG: Yeah. It was steam. Yeah. Now most of these sawmills back here was steam, too. They'd get in a big steam boiler and some motors. Well, it ain't been long since the old steam boiler set up this little creek up here for years and years. The old boiler set there and the mill was closed and gone but the old boiler set there for years.

SS: What did your family buy, mostly during the year? What did they need to buy? Did you do catalogue order for your clothes and stuff?

RG: Yes. Sears Roebuck; you could order. But anyway shoes and clothes. We raised our own vegetables and stuff, you know, and your own gar den, and you had your own meat, most all the time, and stuff like tha t. you just had to buy, oh, your stuff that you cooked with, your salt and your stuff like that was the main thing. And different stuff for the table. Didn't buy too much for the table, you had spuds and you had beans and you had your meat and your stuff like that. You had practically all of it for the year, you know. And then you had to live to that. We've talked about it a lot, what they have to eat at the present day and then we'd say, "Well, we had so-and-so when we was kids." "Oh well, they don't eat that much anymore." "Well,"I said, "we done awful well. We growed up on it anyway." But eating has changed a whole lot, We were just talkin' about- now my wife here's quite a gardener, and that's our livilihood now. We just eat a lot of that stuff, you know, from the garden. Our store bill is never very high because of fancy stuff. We got our own deepfreeze and we have our own meat, you know, and that's something you didn't have before. You had to cure.meat and keep it in someplace cool or something, you know, and it was a problem. You couldn't have fresh meat hardly. But now in later years when I was a kid before I could get old enough to harvest, they had a meat market here in town and they had a buggy with a top on it and a box on the back and they'd put fresh meat in there. And of course, everybody had a icehouse, and up they put ice with sawdust, you know for the year, and they put a chunk of ice in there for this meat. If you was athrashing they'd take you out some meat and leave it at the thrashing- where they was thrashing. Mr. Long down here is still alive that used to drive that wagon and take meat all over the country. Different days he'd be at different to give em some meat, you know. Well, everybody had a icehouse, Her folks had a icehouse, or her brother, but in town here, every store pretty near had a icehouse. Well, they'd cut it off of the river here in the winter, you know and put it in there. And that is what they had to keep their stuff with, is ice.

SS: On the ridges, where did they get their ice from? Well, some of 'em had ponds. Had ponds built and they'd get it off a that.

RG: Then they'd come to the river.

RG: Yeah . In the winter they could come down here and haul it out on a bobsled. Oh, some of 'em had big icehouses here in town and they'd sell you ice. You could come in and you could get ice pretty near any time, couldn't you?

RG: Uh-huh.

SS: You know, you were talking about the threshing a little bit, and I was thinking, those crews, were they almost all local men, or did- was it a lot of guys who would come in?

RG: Well, they had some guys, but they was all pretty near local fellas in the community. They'd be a few outsiders, but they'd be local fel las pretty much.

SS: Was that a time when you could have a lot of socialability?

RG: Oh, yeah. There was something going on all the time, and it didn't cost you like it does now.

SS: I was thinking when you were threshing; because I was thinking if every body was getting together kind of to thresh lots of times- or maybe there wasn't lots of time, with ali the hard work-

RG: No, there wasn't a lot of time.

RG: I don't know if you've ever seen an old threshing machine or not.

SS: I've seen pictures, but that one is a beauty. That's got the whole works, doesn't it? That's really something. Where was that? That's on Fix Ridge. And here's one of my brothers and here's one of my brothers. See, I was the youngest of the family. And this one is nineteen years old*and this one's sixteen. And this fellow's even older than I. I wasn't very old at that time. And see the old steam engine.

SS: That is a beautiful picture. Just to have the whole thing laid out like that is really great.

RG: That shows you the horses, four horses on a wagon and here's your bun dles in there. And the pitchers, they would stay out in the field and these fellers would haul into the threshing machine and throw it over into the feeder, and then it would go through. It don't show the sack pile there, does it?

SS: Well, you can see it. And you can see the spout. And that's the straw pile.

RG: And that's the straw pile and that's what we used for our horses and cattle in the wintertime to feed.

SS: The straw pile?

RG: Uh-huh. A lot of it. They'd run out to the straw piles.

RG: They'd be lots of chaff and stuff in that, see, and they'd all go in the straw pile. And they'd come through pretty good sometimes.

RG: On our farm, we had always raised a lot of corn and we cut this here corn and we'd feed 'em this corn fodder along with this, straw. And shuck the corn, feed that to the pigs and fatten them out. (Chuckles)

SS: How hard was the work on that- at that time of the year? How hard did the men work? Did they work real long days?

RG: Oh, boy they would put in from daylight til dark.

RG: In the summertime. They figured on being in the field and a going at six o'clock in the morning. And you had these horses to get ready to go, you know.

RG: Now here's what they called the header. Now this was big- this was a long time before this. They'd go along and cut the heads off and put 'em in this wagon and then they'd take 'em to the machine.

SS: Yup, so six o'clock. Did they get out in the field by six?

RG: Oh, yes, and then they'd work til seven o'clock in the evening.

RG: There's another picture. I started out when I was twelve years old working at a cookshack.

SS: When you were twelve?

RG: When I was twelve.

SS: What did you do in a cookshack at that age? M RG: I cooked! Cooking for the men. Now this is my sister and my cousin, she was older than I was. I'd do most of the cake making-

SS: Which one are you? The one on the left or the one in the middle?

RG: Now this is me here. And here's where we slept at night. You *** that was taken a few years ago, you can tell by the color. And this was the kitchen part and the men would come in in the back here and this was tables clear around. But this little place here was the kitchen. We'd feed around twenty-seven men. And we also had to take out their lunch in between breakfast and dinner.

SS: Had you learned how to cook before that? Before you was out in a cookhouse? You learned that before you were twelve, then?

RG: Uh-huh. Yeah, I learned how to do everything. There's me when I was a feeding a calf. That's the old buggy. used to go to church with it. And that shows the - part of the orchard there. Now this is the corncrib. We'd shuck the corn and put it in there and feed it to -

SS: Did you milk the cows when you were little?

RG: Yeah, I was only five years old when I started milking. I quit, what was it? About three years ago!

SS: Yeah, that's pretty recent. (Laughter)

RG: We always had a bunch of cows at home. That was my sister and I and my mother, that was our job, taking care of the cows and milking these cows and selling cream. And that's how we could get our groceries. That and also eggs.

SS: What did you think of the cookhouse work?

RG: I thought that was the most fun going! It was hard work we wo uld say nowdays because you had to haul your water, you know and heat your water up on the stove and everything to wash the dishes and stuff with, There was a lot of work to it. And of course, you'd have to have a meal because you couldn't anything over, you'd have to cook every meal, you know. What I meant, didn't have no freezer to put anything in to keep it like you would nowdays.

SS: What made it fun?

RG: Oh, I don't know, just something different, I guess. (Chuckles) And the men always enjoyed this eatin'. When they'd come by the cookhouse "Hey therejf the piet house," they would say, "What we going to have for dinner?"

SS: You called it the piehouse? M RG: Yeah. Call it the piehouse.

SS: I've had the idea, well, people have told me, that the feeding was sort of the main thing, I mean, that was the sweetener for the whole business.

RG: That's it. And now like us, we was raised on a farm and we'd bring everything off the farm. Now, there'd be some cooks would come out here in earlier days and they would buy canned stuff out of the store. We didn't, we raised our own garden. And went to the garden and gathered this stuff and went and got our own chickens and got them ready for the meal.

RG: Yeah, there's a lot of that was done in the country.

RG: AWe would get up at four o'clock a lot of times, and it would be ten or after before we'd go to bed. I couldn't do that now. (Laughter)

SS: At the age of twelve] That seems to me like an awfully long day.

RG: It was a long day, you ain't akiddinj

SS: Would you be exhausted by the end of the day?

RG: Yes, we'd be tired, uh-huh. There would be a feller to do the rousta bout. And he would haul the water then he would also go to town if we needed groceries and stuff and so on.

RG: Get the wood.

RG: Yeah. Get the wood. Yes, and you may get through this guy's field, maybe around noon, well gee, we'd have to pick everything up and get it ready to move to the next neighbor, you see.

SS: Move that cookhouse. Pull it, huh?

RG: Yeah, it was pulled by horses; four horses. They'd take one of the—

SS: That must have thrown your planning, your food planning off some?

RG: Yes, that would be hard. They generally tried to have it so we wouldn't have to move til in between meals, after dinner or something. But the hardship was around noon.

SS: It doesn't really look all that big to look at it.

RG: No, it wasn't too big. Must have been about as big as this room, I would say, wouldn't you?

RG: No, it wasn't as big as this room.

RG: Wasn't as wide as this room.

RG: No, it wasn't as wide as this room.

RG: Then you'd have your kitchen out and then there'd be like this; there was tables all the way around and to the end would be the door, then there was a leaf come down and that made a table.

SS: Did you feed all the men at once in there?

RG: Uh-huh. Tried to, most of the time.

RG: You had a walkway, didn't you, in the middle?

RG: Yeah, there was a walkway in the middle.

RG: And they set down next to the wall, you see, and then they had a table about this wide and that's where the food was set on. The walkway here was where they put the food on.

RG: The worse thing we had them days was the houseflies. You know, we didn't have things to control them like we do now. So before noon, we'd get the old dish towel and shoo them flies out. Of course, when the men opened the door, there the bunch of 'em would come back in again. It was something terrible but I guess they was all used to 'em, too.

SS: Did you always get the meals- were they always ready on time? Or did you really have to hustle to get 'em, I mean hurry to try to get things done. It seems to me it was an awful lot of work.

RG: Oh, we had to hurry to get things done. Peel your potatoes and every thing.

SS: How did you divvy up with the other girls that were working? When you were twelve were there certain jobs they had you do?

RG: Yes, we all had certain jobs. My job was waitin' table and I done most of the bakin'. My sister done- this time, talking about this kitchenshe done the pie bakin' but I did the cake bakin' and the cookies. And they didn't have enough sense to stir up some dough and stick a little dab right there, we had to roll it out with a rolling pin and Stick then cut em out, you know, them days. And we d fix em all up a little raisins or something. And they'd think they was great.

SS: I can't see a twelve year old kid taking that kind of responsibility, today. Could you?

RG: No, I couldn't. And you don't see a boy taking that responsibility, either. He would get out in the field and plow. Let's look here, this here shows this boy, now, he was water boy. Now he was, I would say, only twelve.

SS: If that! He looks so little.

RG: Here's another one, he wasn't too much older than I.

SS: When do you remember when the boys started to work in the thrashing? What age, do you remember that?

RG: Oh, fourteen to sixteen. You could drive if you could handle 'em, why they'd give you a team and start to working you. You betcha! Any boy could drive the horses, you know, and that's when it'd be. But anyway, a lot of working in the fields.

RG: They had one engine, I remember one time, they would use straw to make it go.

SS: Is that what they called the strawburner?

RG: Yeah. And that was a job for somebody to bring that straw. :, you know.

RG: Strawbuck, they called him.

SIDE C

RG: And he could fire it and keep the water in it to keep the steam.

SS: Was it very important to the boys to be able to do a man's day's work?

RG: Yeah, you thought you was something when you could get to work with the men, you know it. And another thing I thought I'll bring to you, when you was a young kid if you had a suit of clothes, it was usually just to here, you know, and your long stockings, you know, for boys. Well, when you got your first long pants, boy, now you was somebody! Then you was ready to work! Well, shoot, when we was kids twelve and fourteen, fifteen years old; there was an old guy used to live close to us and he always had a bunch of milk cows and stuff and he'd hay Well, the day he wanted to hay, he'd get all us kids to work in that barn and mow that hay and tramp it, you know. And the wagons'd haul it and they'd pitch it in and we'd mow it around. And we'd get seventy-five cents a day and they'd give us our dinner and we thought that we was adoin' pretty good, you know.

RG: He was telling about the pants; nowdays if we was to work tn a cook shack we'd be wearing something a little bit more so we could get around, them days we had to wear dresses.

SS: Just almost down to your toes.

RG: Yes, almost. Then here I was with them high shoes I had to wear and I used to get so disgusted with my mother, she would never let me go barefooted, but I figured out why. We lived down on the breaks on Fix Ridge, all rattlesnakes and she was worried about these rattlesnakes. And one,day one got under this old granery and did we have a time ahim getting out! Did he ever rattle, but we kept at it til we finally got him out and killed him. But after I growed up I thought, well, gee, Iknowed what it was all about. Why the

SS: Did she warn you a lot about rattlesnakes?

RG: Oh, boy, we was really warned about rattlesnakes.

SS: These clothes sure don't look like the most comfortable for hot work. That must have been hot work, too, right?

RG: Boy, the hot part of the summer! And you know how hot it'd be in a little place like that.

SS: And you were cooking on a woodstove, too.

RG: We thought we had it pretty good, we had a tent to put up. Of course, the men they just made their bed around - took some strawpile- and rolled out their bedding and that's where they had to—

RG: Everybody took their bedding.

RG: When it rained they'd crawl under the wagons. (Laughter)

SS: Were you cooking for somebody or was it your family's—was it a com munity crew?

RG: There was four men, two of my brothers had a share in it and two other fellers share in the thrashing machine. And that was Fix Ridge and I think there was another thrashing machine or maybe two but there was two more on the Ridge. We would thrash the lower end of the Ridge then we'd have to go clear to the upper end and do the work, too. We figured we was half done thrashing the last of August. Then after that the beans come on, so you know what a long seige it was.

SS: What would that make it altogether? About maybe two months or a month and a half?

RG: That'd make it all of two months.

RG: Yeah, all of two months.

RG: And then after that they had to haul their grain after . come in from thrashing, you know. It was stacked up here and it'd have to be put in wagons and hauled to town and that was days and days work to do that.

SS: It went into the fall then, by that time. By the time you got every thing hauled into town maybe.

RG: Yes, it'd be-

RG: It'd be up into October then.

RG: Yes it'd sometimes in November. But what I was going to say now, we didn't do no farm work with the horses much until it rained so could plow, you know. Your horses couldn't stand it to pull them old plows in that old hard ground, and you didn't have plows that'd stay in the ground^ they do now. These mammoth, big ones. So that didn't give you much time. We had lots of footburners, we called 'em, that was a three horse outfit and just one furrow; and we got some out here in the shed, and you just foiler it and it cut sixteen inches at a swath, you know. And you'd have two or three of them going. And I was just agoin' to tell you, you're talking about when you're smallthe Armistice was signed and we were right out above Juliaetta and it was just a beautiful day and we were plowing. I was old enough that I could run a footburner, but my brother was old enough so that he had one of the plows with wheels on it, he could ride on that. And that's the way we were doing our plowin'. We had two plows with three horses on each one, but he wasn't old enough to drive a footburner, so we had to borrow a plow that had wheels on it and a seat so that he could sit on it.

SS: Was it the same? About sixteen inches?

RG: Yes.

SS: So then you heard about the Armistice?

RG: We were plowing over east of the hill above Juliaetta there, and we stopped to rest the horses and we heard an awful noise down there at Juliaetta. Now, Juliaetta it had a cannery at that time. They canned tomatoes and all kinds of fruit. Well, it was a big steam outfit, you know, boiler. And the whistles was agoin and the bells was agoin'. So we wrapped the lines up and walked out over the hill so we could see the town and everybody was agoin' up and down the streets and all, you know. And we went in at noon, well, they told us what had happened. But what I was ameanin', it shows you what we was doin' when we was little fellas that this happened, you know. We wasn't old enough to take a man's place but we could still work, you know. But that's the way all the kids was at them days, wasn't it?

RG: Oh, yes.

RG: You had a job and you could work at it in hayin' and stuff like that everybody had a job. You didn't make much money you didn't need much money to survive on.

RG: Like talkin' about money. Folks always took us to the Fourth of July celebrations, most of the time it was in Juliaetta, and they had the park down there where the sawmill is now and that was all trees and stuff and they had it all fixed up. And of course, they'd have a car nival come in, Ferris wheel and stuff and have firecrackers and stuff like that, and of course, we'd take our lunch and eat out.

SS: That was really the big celebration.

RG: Yeah, that celebration always come on about hay time. I remember one time they'd bring hay in the barn and I was small, I could tramp it down, 'cause it was getting pretty close to the top. Well, I'd tramp this hay down then I'd run back to the house and they was agoin' after another load and mother was makin' me a dress to go to this celebration.

SS: So what? She'd try the dress on you and-

RG: Try the dress on to see how it fit. This is an antique 4t© a 1

SS: Yeah, it really is. I hadn't really hardly looked at it.

RG: You was talking a while ago about sending away to Sears Roebuck for (organ) stuff well, here's thi4~ my dad had bought this in 1907 for my sister, I've told you she was eighteen years older than I was. And here's the letter that Sears and Roebuck wrote to him. Different length

SS: Uh-huh, that's quite a long letter.

RG: And then she got her lessons by- through the mail.

SS: Was this organ bought- was this music real important to the family? Or was it just bought for her to learn to play?

RG: It was just bought for her to learn to play. Wanted something to play on.

SS: It's real nice that you've got that letter.

RG: Then when I growed up she was going to give me lessons. I didn't have time, I was a tomboy, I was outside with the cattle and stuff I didn't have time to fool with the music, so I never did learn to play.

SS: Does that mean- from what you say it would sound like - that kids were as interested or more interested in work than they were in playing. Would that be true to say?

RG: Well, they had playin' too, but they also had- now when we was kids, we used to have a rodeo, you know, what we'd call a rodeo. We'd round up a bunch of calves and on Sunday we'd try to ride the calves and stuff like that, as little kids. I can remember one time we had a whole bunch of 'em and everybody had one picked out to ride and we had one extra one, a great, big one. So, by gosh, they was gonnawe'd all tried to ride some and some rode and some didn't. And this one, they was going to take up a collection and draw names to see who rode it. Well, I had to ride him , but I got twenty-five cents, I think, to ride him. He didn't buck, he just rared up and fell down on his stomach and he was a big old steer and he wouldn't get up, and so I laughed about that to the bunch of them, "I sure done good on that twenty-five cents!" (Chuckles) But that was the survival of the peo ple- how they survived and lived free to what it is now, you know it? We called it living free.fy, Now when it come Sunday in the winter, we always had lots of snow, we'd be coasting, or if we had a pond, they'd be askatin'. We'd never to go town for anything, you know, for enter tainment because they didn't have nothin to town to entertain you.

SS: Did things slow down in the winter? On the farm? I mean was there a lot more time to just sort of take it easy?

RG: Yeah. That's right. The main thing is to feed your stock and see that they was taken care of the .., and that was the main thing because you couldn't do anything else much. And we'll say you didn't plow the roads like you do now, you know. Just have the team and you just break the road and you just follow that same road all the time. And that is the way it was.

SS: You know, when you mentioned Armistice there, and makes me think about World War I, and some of the things I've heard about- that like the German people around Cameron really had something of a hard time du ring that period of time, is what I've heard. Do you remember that?

RG: Oh, yes

SS: What was the thinking that was going on then?

RG: Well, they were thinking of- tell you something- they was some of 'em from Germany and they thought we shouldn't be in the war and they was kinda for Germany. And it was quite a problem. Now he's dead now- I'll tell you something, but my dad was building a barn for a fella up on the Ridge and I was just a little kid and I'd go there helping some on Saturdays or something, but this old fellow was pretty much of a German and he wanted Germany to win, seem like, and my Dad'd say - he'd go and get the paper every day and he'd read how it went. Well, if Germany was doing a little best, why, boy, he'd come around and talk, but if Germany was agettin' the worst of it, he'd never come and say a word. But it got around. Now, I'm gonna tell you. In the draft in the first war, you know they had a draft; well, they had Germans up there that wasn't never gonna sign up in the draft; "We ain't going to." Well, one old fellow in particular, he'd go around and tell the young fellas, "Now don't sign up, they Can't do a thing with you if you don't register." You know, you had to register. "Don't pay no attention to 'em." But the day that they come to register, gosh, he was right there to register with the rest of 'em. He couldn't stand it, he found out changedthat they could do something with you if you didn't register.

What about the bonds? Would those people buy the bonds just like every body else did?

No, they didn't buy nothing. Now, we had one old feller that was a blacksmith, German blacksmith, oh, he was American. Now, if he - didn't give some of 'em a bad time. Boy, he'd sure lay it onto some of them Germans. So they got so they wouldn't come around the shop where he was a runnin' it much because he was really American. Yes, but they had fellas there older like fellas, now the young fellas that come along would be different, but when we had the second war and we had fellas in that that was wealthy up there, but they'd come from Germany and you know, they wasn't in much favor of it- of us abein' in it, of course. They couldn't do nothin' else, but boy, they had some pretty bad times there. Now we had a whole bunch of young fellas up there and they were awful nice guys. They had one fella that come from a foreign country- he's dead, too- but he made a pile of money. Well, he wouldn't buy no bonds, and these boys come back from the service and they got to drinking a little down here at town and if it hadn't abeen for some fellows helping they'd a hung him right here in town. And by gosh, they was gonna hang him here in town and they had quite a time. But of course, when the boys got sobered up a little better and all, they got more sense. But, shoot, he was one of their neighbors.

Maybe part of it was because he had/all the money.

Well, that wasn't ahelpin' out any. I can tell you something- whenever they was a workin' here to town- and he had money and he'd in herited money from his ancestors, older you know, and so that's where he had got the start on everybody a little bit. If there is anything lathe' s I can recall- there was some plow hat was hard to get and he was down here at the hardware store and they had a whole five sets come in for five plows. Well, he come in and seen 'em. He said, "I want all five of 'em." Well, the fellow was there and he says, "I'll tell you, I can't sell you all five of 'em." "Why?" "Well," he said, "I might not get none for a long time." But he said, "I'll tell you we're not going to sell you five, but we will sell you two." And I'll people never forget that. And when heard about that, well, they needed some, too, and they thought, "Well, he just wanted to shut us off." Anything to make money. But he was wealthy. .He passed away, I was one of the appraisers on the estate, and they had an awful accumulation of money, but they never had no kids. He finally got married but they never had no children and his wife's still alive. She owns a lot of property. But they was gonna hang him, the boys come back and they'd a done it, too, if they hadn't got some of the older fellas to get ahold of 'em.

SS: You know, the Cameron community, the German community, it was really a tight community, wasn't it? They were all real close.

RG: Oh, yes.

SS: And it was pretty separate from the rest.

RG: That's right. You bet. Yeah, you bet it was.

SS: Do you remember the IWWs at all?

RG: remember 'em.

SS: I just was wondering if you ever had any trouble with them in the harvest fields.

RG: No. Now, they was a time or two that we heard about them. But when it come down to it, they couldn't prove nothin'- that they had done anything wrong.t Yes, we had IWWs here- the woods was hurt the worst. In tae woods work, you know. They had lots of IWWs in . They come in and took over the camps, and of course, that was bad. Yeah, but I was just going to tell you- I was to Gifford just the other nightwell, I been a crazy old auctioneer all my life off an on and we just cried a sale last night up here on Cedar Ridge for the ladies club and I had one over at Gifford the other night and some people was there from Seattle and we was asking about times in Seattle and they were telling that the unemployment was real terrific over there, you know, and wasn't so good, and said, "We'd like to be over in this country but you got your wealth tied up there and you just can't get it out of 'em to get over here." "Well," I said, "I'm sure that^if there's anybody in Central Idaho that wants to work that there's work for 'em." And they is. You take it in hayin' time; they work in the woods, the boys when they're out of school and different things and Brockes down here take all the local boys out of school in their department of the grain business. Pick peas and stuff. But the farther out you reach out, you know, the unemployment is not so good. So we feel pretty fortunate a being in this country.

SS: Wasn't it pretty much that way in the old days, too? Wasn't there work for the kids when they were old enough?

RG: Oh, gosh, yeah. You'd be doin' something all the time.

SS: You just wouldn't be making too much money?

RG: Nope. Oh, no, you didn't make much but you didn't need much, you know. Pair of shoes a dollar and twenty cents and stuff like that. I wish we had that old Sears and Roebuck catalogue. I think we let somebody take it to show the people and they still got it, I guess.

SS: In your family, Roy, did kids always have everything that they felt they needed, or that they wanted?

RG: Oh, no.

SS: They didn't have enough?

RG: No. We had plenty to eat; that is one thing I'll say, that we had plenty to eat, but we had to skimp on other things. And clothes was hand-me-down quite a lot, you know, to survive. And that's the way ti was. You don't see that so much any more.

SS: What about shoes? Did you have shoes or did you go barefooted?

RG: Well, you could go barefooted some in the summer, but not too much. We shoes. And they was handed down shoes a lot of times, you know. But anyway, everybody I'd say was a little more happy than they are now, because there was more comingling. Your neighbors and all was- Now you'll see big firms now- not firms but farms- where they won't see their neighbor once in six months. Well, they was always some thing adoin'. We had the old country schoolhouse and that's where you met and had all your doinfees. Everybody'd be there. Then we also had Sunday School and church in that same old schoolhouse on Sunday. Well, everybody turned out, you know. And the old hitching rack along here where you fixed to tie your horses, your teams, it'd just be lined with buggies and teams, you know. And that's the way they was. Every body knew everybody and so that's the way it turned out. We just sur vived. Nobody seemed to be tryin' to get ahead of any of the other person, too much. Now, I was gonna tell you, you just tell a fella you want to sell a piece of land at the present day you know how it isthese rich fellas is all around. Some land right up by us, old bachelor bought a big farm here the other day and my wife says, now he didn't have no more use for it than nothin', he had a lot of money. My wife says, "Why didn't somebody could buy that that would live in the community that y- be with?" And so, it's changed a lot that way. Now with us, when we come down here to our girls to go to school, we would stay on the ranch all summer and then the school would start down here; we let the kids come down here and the missus would usually come down, most of the time, and then in the sum mer when school was out. Now they have nine months school and for a while they just had eight months school, so that give you a lot more time. Well, anyway, the kids'd be here at school and the schoolhouse was up on the hill. Well, our girls played in the band and they played basketball and they was things like that. And when we was out there eight miles and snowed in, they was handicapped from being up with the other kids, so we thought we should be where they could get their chance. The other girls they got married after they too went through highschool the youngest one went through the univer sity and taught school at Colton three years and then she married a man in the navy air corps and they live in San Diego.

SS: Did you live down here, too, during the winter, or did you stay up on the place up there?

RG: We all come down for the winter. KDrain up the water all through the house. We had water under pressure up there and stuff, and we'd be down here - sometimes we'd be going back and forth. Oh, we'd have some stock part way up there and we had land that was not clear on top fee a part on the sidehill and then we'd back and forth. We have quite a herd of cattle now that we're not feeding much, but they'll all be down here in this feedlot in the winter.

SS: Let me ask you; when you started farming on your own, how did you start in farming?

RG: Well,we lived on the place that we growed up on - was a little place then my dad rented a pretty good sized farm over on the Ridge and we lived there for years and years. And the old man that owned that farm, he owned the farm that we got over here.

SS: On Texas Ridge?

RG: Yeah. And so then he always liked us pretty much. He was the dangest thing- he had four ranches of course, and we got our dental work done and Mable got her dental work done there and we got to going together and he found that out, and he said he had a place for us. So we went and looked at it and wanted to live there. Just the kind of ano, they used to be a big house and barn on it but they burnt up and gone and they built a little old shack, but there was an old schoolhouse on the place and still there. So, I don't know, he took me up there a lot of times and tried to talk me in the notion. No, I didn't care nothin' about it. Finally he guessed we was getting married, so Mable- it was alright to live in that old cabin of a place. But the year we got married my dad and her brother and all, they come and helped us and we built the house that winter. So we was there. And so that went on and the old folks that owned it then, he was gettin' up in years and he passed on and it fell heir to his wife. Well, she kept that pi^ce but she was awful good to us. And we fixed it up from what it was. It was an awful old rundown farm and we raised lots of grass and stuff on it and built it all up til we had one of the the best farms in Latah County. So, what I was going to say- He had four farms and four daughters, so one girl fell heir to that place up there, that is supposed to, but she died before her mother did. But she had two kids, so her mother fixed that up in her estate business that if Roy and Mabel wanted to buy it and it was going to be sold, we just had to pay so much down and so much a year til we got it paid for. Well, that was a God's blessing, that old lady liked us so well, I guess. So we paid for it years ago and that's how we come to be up there farming. But we had the girls coming; we had three girls and didn't have no boy and then we seven years and was going to have a boy and then we had two girls again! (Chuckles) And so bought this in place to be close where they could be school, because they couldn't keep up with the other kids handicapped being out there and be snowed in for a while, you know. And so that's how we come to be down here. award

RG: — main helper. We won the to save Idaho for conservation farming.

SS: Really?

RG: And we felt pretty good about that. We had that and we had that whole farm to start with and we'd built it up to one of the best farms and we won the conservation award, and the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company sent me to Arizona. They just sent the men in the states- we went to Phoenix, Arizona to the Goodyear farm; the Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company sent me there for thirteen days and all expenses paid. And that was what we won for it. Of course,we won it in the county and won it in the state. and of course, you had to be chairman of it. And Mabel was one of the greatest helpers. Well, they sent our names in and some men come from Washington, D. C. to see our pro ject. And in the meantime Mr. Onstott right down here was our tech nician^ soil conservation and Mabel and his wife got together and they had a chicken dinner up on our old farm- what we used to call the old farm but we fixed it up. Well, you couldn't believe that we were sittin' there with the guys from Washington, D. C. out on an old farm! And all the technicians come from all around that was close to Central Idaho and we had an awful deal. And we built ponds and ways and you know, cleared out brush patches and fixed up a farm.

SS: Was this the farm that you bought?

RG: Yep. The same one we got now and was tickled to death to get it, you know and show it. And some of these times I'd just like to show you. No farm lays any better in the country and you can get up on one lit tle knoll part and it's 360 and that's 300 of farm land, and you can just about see every corner from that one little place. And fellows just come and looked at it and said, "If you'd a told me this, I'd a never believed it." We just think the world of it.

SS: Well, this point, is this where the house is at?

RG: No. You have to go up on a little knoll. The house is built in a nice kinda level place, pretty much, but the farm is none of it steep. It's an awful good farm that way. It's not too flat and it's not too hilly, and we just think the world of it. And people come and look at it. See, we was hailed out this year. We got in the hail storm, we didn't harvest nothing. And we had some insurance on it and the last old fella was there, we'd just finished up signing the papers to get some money ^ten days or two weeks. And I was just telling Mabelevery time I see the mail come I think we should have some money. But we haven't got any, but it'll come. But we done very well in the last few years. We scrimped and saved and we had a pretty good little patch of money saved up and the farm paid for and everything. We started out with nothing. She had a few head of cows when she got married. When she was a kid, you know, they'd give her a calf. Well, we had a team and that's what we started with. And then me and my dad had got a little old crawler tractor. Well, he'd farm over here and I'd take it over there and farm to get started, you know. But we had several horses when we lived over here. We raised horses and sold horses.

We had some fine Belgians- I had some of them I could use any time I wanted over there. But we didn't have no barn or nothin' for stock over there. The fella that had the place'fore we did- he lived over there close and he didn't have nothin' only an old wheel tractor and he never did raise much. And the fence rows was all brushy and stuff and we worked that all out. And in the '30's didn't make no difference whether you had much money- but we had plenty to live on and I'd just work at stuff like that.

SS: Improving the farm?

RG: Improving the farm and stuff. And sometime I' 11 take you up and we'll see it. I call it grubbed out of nothin, but it's a pretty good place, I got the finest fall wheat in the country this year. And the hail came and ruined all of our grain crops. But I didn't plant any peas. I don't know why I didn't plant peas, I usually plant some, but if I'd a had 'em planted I'd a lost them, too. But I had this for summer fallow, see, so I tiled some of it, and that's why I left it summer fallow so I could tile some of it.

SS: When you say tile, would that help?

RG: Well, you put tile in the ground that if you've got a wet place over here that is slow about farming. It's a four inch plastic pipe and you dig a trench down and lay that down about this deep, you know, and that'll drain that water out so you won't have a mud hole there in the summer. And I tiled some of that. They have a machine to dig this with that just goes like this and digs it down and there's a auger here and it augers it out each way. And it'll dig a ditch this deep just pretty near as fast as you can walk. Well, then when this tile just folds right in there and then you push the dirt back over it. But this tile has got creases in it and little holes and the water can go in it anyplace and if it's got a slope it'll drain out, you know, so you won't have a mudhole up in your field. Some of the fields— lot of times we have a lot of snow and you know that snow would hang on them low places a long time and then that'd be mud way up when you'd like to be a farmin'. Well, this way, it helps drain it out so that you can farm better.

SS: Well, when you first got that place, you didn't have no idea how long you'd be there, did you?

RG: Oh, no, uh-uh. Never did have a lease on it as long as- til we bought it. The old man- I says something to him about it- a lease- but my dad- and we growed up on his farm over there- and I asked him about a lease and "Well," he says, "I'll tell you. I always figure that if your word wasn't no good, your signature wasn't no good." And I've went by that all the rest of my days, I thought if he thought that, and I just tried to live like that. Wonderful old man he was.

SS: What kind of terms did you have for living on that place in those days?

RG: A third of the crop.

SS: Was his?

RG: Yeah. A third was rent. That's what all of it used to be practically went by a third.

SS: All the renters?

RG: Yeah, yeah. That was the goin' rent. A third of the crop. Course, he had to pay the taxes and he usually paid for fixing the fences and stuff, that is, furnished the stuff, but you done the work.

SS: But you went and built the house on it anyway?

RG: Yeah. He furnished the lumber. And it was poor grade of lumber in them days, but since then we've put slate siding on the house. And it's a metal roof house because there's lots of snow up there and that metal always slid off and it didn't bother.

RG: It would snow - the snow just drifted just as high as this was out in the field. Now they had their cattle in y| canyon and the sun flowers was all in bloom and everything, it drifted so in the canyon that they had to go and have a time agettin' them cattle out. They had to dig some of these drifts so the cows could get out to get home to get something to eat.

SS: That's hard to believe to have that happen. That was right to the end of March, it was like that? The year she was born.

RG: Old Wade Keeney lived on American Ridge and he come to town and he said, "I'll bet there's 5,000 songbirds dead along the road; froze to death from up there coming into town. It got down to over twenty some below zero.

SS: Did it snow, too, or what happened?

RG: Uh-huh. Just like a blizzard.

0:00 - Came from North Carolina; related to Martin Thomas; Potlatch Ridge; father worked on farms and did carpentry

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Segment Synopsis: Family came from North Carolina in 1904, related to several people in the area including Martin Thomas. They landed in Juliaetta, then farmed Potlatch Ridge. Her parents came to Genesee from Oregon in 1893 and then Fix Ridge. His father worked on farms and did carpentry. They moved to Kendrick from the Texas Ridge farm so daughters could go to high school in winter.

8:00 - Early years on the farm; blacksmith shop in Leland; raising beans into grain; started growing peas instead of beans; farm chores; importance of farm animals

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Segment Synopsis: Early years on the farm. Blacksmith shop in Leland. Tram with buckets from Potlatch Ridge to Kendrick. Juliaetta tram. Early trucks. It took a quarter of the 160 to feed the stock. Raising beans would be followed by an excellent crop of grain; young people hoed beans, cut them and piled them. Horses tramped beans before threshing machines. Peas replacing beans, because it was less work. Farm chores for young. Importance of farm animals - raising what you eat. Cream money for groceries. Tiny deposits in Kendrick bank of 1910. Trading for what you needed. A three-year note for $3 of spuds.

23:00 - Man killed over line fence on Texas Ridge; killer hung himself in neighbor's house; Devil's Lanes

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Segment Synopsis: Men held on to their land, weren't anxious to get more. A man killed his neighbor in argument over line fence on Texas Ridge (1906); the killer hung himself in neighbor's house when he went to get the authorities. Devil's Lanes were small strips between property where the owners were unwilling to share fences. Land readily available to rent; young men could get a start by renting bean ground.

29:00 - Sawmills; people focussed on survival

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Segment Synopsis: Much work for small sawmills. Prevalence of sawmills; they were brought in for patches of timber. People thought about survival, not being rich.

30:00 - Work was seasonal; Hauled grains on sleds to Kendrick; rebuilding after the 1904 fire

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Segment Synopsis: Work was short-term and seasonal for many. Hauling grain on sleds to Kendrick in winter, visiting with friends in town. After 1904 fire many buildings were rebuilt with brick from Joe Fricktell's brickyard. After fire they cut trees from hillside for shade on Fourth of July; importance of the celebration.

38:00 - Railroad became supply link to Clearwater county and Pierce; stores in Kendrick

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Segment Synopsis: After railroad came in 1891 Kendrick was the major supply link to Clearwater country and Pierce, by pack trail. Early stores were on present site of Kendrick school - sidewalks on stilts with railings protected drunk men from falling in the river. Towns were built from locally milled lumber.

42:00 - Leland flour mill; food grown on the farm; ice storage

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Segment Synopsis: His neighborhood traded "at home", in Leland. Leland flour mill. Food was grown on the farm. Problem of keeping fresh meat - meat wagon taken to farms during harvest by Marvin Long.Ice Storage.

49:00 - Women's raising of "grocery money"; cooking in the cookhouse; responsibilities at a young age

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Segment Synopsis: Threshing pictures. She cooked for the crew at age of twelve. She started milking at five, as part of the women's raising of "grocery money." The men called cookhouse the "pie house." Country women used their own produce in the cookhouse. Inside the cookhouse - fighting flies. Cooking. Young age for responsibilities.

60:00 - First pair of long pants; long dresses for cookwagon; mother's fear of rattlesnakes

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Segment Synopsis: Boys wanted to work with men. Their pleasure at getting first pair of long pants. They helped with haying for 75 cents a day. Uncomfortable long dresses for cookwagon. Mother's fear of rattlesnakes - she wouldn't let children go barefoot. Threshing season for her outfit.

65:00 - Plowing as a child; commotion in Juliaetta when armistice was signed; Fourth of July

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Segment Synopsis: Plowing only when ground was moist. Plowing with foot burner on wheeled plow as a child. Commotion in Juliaetta when armistice was signed. Fourth of July at Juliaetta park; getting a dress made for celebration while tramping hay. Riding cattle for play. "Living free." Easing of work in winter.

73:00 - First World War; talk around the Cameron community; World War II

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Segment Synopsis: German opposition to First World War, in Cameron community. A man who'd talk to his father when the war was going well for the Germans, A man who talked against the draft, but signed up himself. A German blacksmith who shamed his countrymen when they didn't buy bonds. A wealthy German who didn't enlist in World War II was almost hung by drunk returning enlistees. This man tried to buy the only five plough lathes in town, causing enmity.

80:00 - Employment opportunities; depended on hand-me-down clothes; local gatherings

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Segment Synopsis: Nothing was proved against IWWs. Good employment opportunities in the area. His family depended on hand-me-down clothes and shoes. There was more happiness, and commingling among people at local gatherings. People weren't trying to get ahead of others as much; snapping up of land now.

85:00 - Living in Kendrick with daughters; Texas Ridge farm; built a house

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Segment Synopsis: Living in Kendrick with daughters. He rented Texas Ridge farm from local dentist, at his urging. Family built a house there the year he and Mabel married. Purchase of farm through his widow's generosity.

90:00 - Dinner with Soil Conservation Service; loss of farm in hailstorm; improvements on the farm

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Segment Synopsis: Dinner with Soil Conservation Service brass from Washington on their old farm. Description of their beautiful farm. Loss of farm in this year's hailstorm. Improvements on the farm through the years. Tile for good drainage. He never had a lease because the dentist believed in a man's word. Terms for rent were one-third of the crop.

98:00 - Spring blizzard

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Segment Synopsis: Spring blizzard of 1906.

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