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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: July 21, 1976 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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CECIL GRUELL: Along the bottle. Ed used to raise bullfrogs. Out there and they drained that pond on Ed and he lost all of his bullfrogs. in that pond

CRYSTAL OTTOSEN GRUELL: That was tween here and Kendrick, Across from Carla's school. YOu know that pond there,

SS: That's where he kept it.

COG: He lived there.

SS: They drained the pond?

CG: Yeah, they kicked some out of town. Old Summerfield was sheriff in Moscow,

SS: And Hap Moody who's still living there,

CG: I know Hap Moody well,

SS: Did he ever talk to you about,..

CG: No, I've never talked to him.,,

SS: He was, he'd go in disguise,

CG: Hap Moody was the sheriff. And Hap would put somebody in the jail and^eorge would take 'em on for a boxing match. He wanted to box, old George, he'd take 'em all on, too. Never passed,.,

SS: Jordan was a tough man. He was kind of mean too,

CG: You bet your life he was mean, And he was good too, if he had to be, He was mean and he was good too.But if you wanted to box, old Jordan would take you on,

SS: Right there in the jail?

CG: Yeah.

SS: Did he use gloves?

CG: Any wanted to go at it, old Jordan would take any way they wanted to go.

SS: He's got quite a reputation. He's dead now?

CG: Oh yeah.

SS: Last year?

CG: Old Hap can't get around, can he?

SS: Well... I've seen him walking down the street in Moscow.

COG: I think Hap Moody is still up there.

CG: It's been quite a while since I saw him,

SS: He's old now. He's in his 90's, I think, Were there many people who would snitch if they knew that a guy was bootlegging? Someplaces you had to keep it pretty quiet.

CG: No. They tried to keep it pretty quiet then, I think that moonshining, well I don't think there was any moonshining made any more atall, I got some Japanese whiskey out here that tastes just like moonshine. We bought it Japan. Just to get the bottle in 1970

COG: It's still there after six years. He always said it tasted just about like the old moonshine,

CG: I think we brought home three bottles, wasn't it? We kept one and give Marge and Elmer one and the kids one, It taste just like..,

COG: Ve went over to Expo '70 and it was the Expo '70 bottle is why we brought it home.(discussion about the bottle)

SS: I wanted to ask you about the depression and how it affected people around here. Do you think it hurt people pretty bad here?

COG: Oh yes. People just didn't have money. When we were firt married, in 1929 it was your first job, actually, after we were married he worked, he had his own dray company, he had horses and team, And did dray work and mail delivery. And then he went to work for the town as maintenance man and cop, what have you.(For)fifty dollars amonth.

SS: When was that?

COG: 1930.

CG: No it was after that,

COG: '30,'31.

CG: I still run the dray then.

COG: You did that after you, when you, after you'd taken this other work,

SS: You couldn't make a living with the dray?

CG: We used to unload 40 and 45 carloads of coal here for winter, Besides wood and stuff. And got so the people didn't use it anymore.

COG: They burned wood or, and then began to use oil,

SS: Did it have anything to do with cars and trucks being around more?

COG: It helped.

CG: It helped some.

COG: That brought in different work.

CG: Haul coal through here so the team of horses wouldn't hardly, I'd ashamed of myself trying to make the hill with them,

COG: But the people down by the river,.. But his first job with the town then was the cop. There was fifty dollars a month. Several years that's what it was.

SS: That was right in the depression?

COG: Yes, in the thirties. And in '35, when Ken was born, you quit, what were you doing then When you went on to the railroad work? That's when you were doing your draywork, up until then. And in '34, You quit.

CG: I started hauling and I quit the cop job here.

COG: You quit that to go down, that was when that big washout and these men were drowned down at Arrow. And he worked on the railroad there for a long time and the railroad was all washed out. No roads, nothing through here at all for several weeks.

SS: You worked to repair that road?

COG: And...

CG: No, I worked on dray,,.

COG: He worked as a watchman down at that bridge where the train went in for a long time.

SS: That was after the train went in?

COG: After the train wreck. It was after that. then.,.

SS: Did you hear what caused that wreck?. Why didn't they stop the train?

CG: There was a bunch of them working by the side of it over there and nobody went down there. They'd tried to get them to go down there that little creek come up and washed out the bridge,

COG: It was a little, there, bridge,

CG: ...Howard Gulch washed out and there's no bridge there and they drove off of that.

SS: So they didn't have warning that...

CG: No. Nobody went down there that night,

COG: The train had managed to get down that far. Most of this track was washed out and under water and everything. And the train had gotten that far and this water come down the other creek there, the little creek, was all washed off.

SS: Did they try to patrol the track in high water to check it?

CG: They did to a certain extent, but they didn't that night,

COG: Everybody was working, I think on the other tracks and sandbagging and you know, everybody was available was out trying to save the rest of the track in different places, I think. Probably is why they didn't think about that,

CG: It wasn't so bad that night, is why, didn't go down there ahead of 'em.

SS: What time of the day did the train go through?

CG: It was at night,

COG: And it had been raining. And it was raining and raining and raining.

SS: Were the Albrights living there at that time?

COG: Oh yes. There were several families by the Albrights there, That track, in front of where the turkey farm, Raliegh Albright's, the old folk's place was up this side of the springs, Where Johnsons live is the old Albright home. That road was all washed out, through there. And below town and all through there, so much of it was,

SS: In the depression, were there people actually going hungry?

CG: No, I don't think so,

COG: Well, people raised everything then, YOu know, they didn't go to the store and buy things like we do today. They raised They canned their food and they had their cow or their chickens. And you know, they just depended on their own gardens, own cellars to live on in the wintertime. We never went to town and bought things, You made your own butter and you made your own bread. I made my own soap, And you just learned to do with out things, that was all. I don't know as anybody ever went hungry, because we didn't have the variety of foods that we have now,

CG: Every place around here,

COG: Every little place around was full of people, I mean families lived in places that now they couldn't begin to make a living,

SS: In town could people keep stock?

COG: Oh yes. Oh no, everybody kept a cow and chickens and maybe raised a pig. There was no restriction on what you did then. And if you didnft have it, why you just went without. That was all. You just didn't have the variety and the fresh foods and things that you have now, The money was another thing, You just didn't. I don't even, I think the first electric washing machine we bought, we paid 35 dollars for it at the old Hardware in Lewiston and we had to buy that Jn monthly payments. We had to pay 35 dollars for a washing machine. Other than that, we had one of these come to me-go from me kind, you know, that you pushed and worked.(laughs)That was after we were married quite a while. Money, we paid six dollars rent on a house down here then. And six dollars out of fifty dollars was quite a little bit to pay for rent. At that time.

SS: Do you think that, how long did you feel that you were scraping by?

COG: Oh I don't know, it was several years, Well to do.(laughs) After he started on the mail job and I went back to teaching, why then we began to think we had money. When I started teaching up there, I think I went back for a hundred dollars a month, wasn't it, that I made teaching? I was stopped at a hundred and fifteen the last year I taught, which was extra good money at that time. But no, I think I had more than that up hereA I started teaching. But that was in 1941, fall of '41 I believe. Ken was his first year in school,

SS: The thirties were lean years for you?

COG: The thirties were blame lean years, you bet your boots they were! They were mighty lean years.

SS: Did a lot of people leave here at that time or did they hang on?

COG: I don't know. I think they stayed. I don't believe anybody particularly left because of that. You could have bought anyplace in town for a few hundred dollars. If had money to buy, we could have bought the whole town for a thousand dollars darn near.You couldn't, who'd want it? Nobody'd want the old places. I mean, money was so tight you couldn't pay the taxes on them. Upkeep, why who ev er thought of buying up anything then, because you just didn't have the money. That was all period,

SS: Did you see many hobos during that time?

CG: You used to.Used to talk of ride the,,.

COG: Ride the rods. Ride the blinds as they called them.

CG: There was two kids on that, riding the blinds that when the river down there, two kids standing behind the coal car and the banih car when that went in the river that night,

SS: What happened to them?

CG: They got out.It just, went engine turned over into it. The coal car didn't in. The engine laid down. I've got a picture of that,

SS: What did you do as a cop? Did you have to quiet people down?

CG: No.

COG: Only, who was it one night,West, old Jim West (laughs) He was always on the rampage and his wife wanted him to go and get Jim bring him home or some thing.He said,"Well if I do I'll take him to jail, "Oh no, you don't put him in jail.You just leave him alone then,I'll get him." (laughs)She didn't want him put in jail.(laughs)

SS: Was that something you could do? Put people in jail? Do you seriously think of leaving here?

COG: No. uh uh. I don't think we ever considered it, Never thought about,noplace else was any better at that time. You didn't have money to get there if you wanted to,

SS: Even when times were better?

COG: No, we've always had our

CG: Your own place and your employed and you're satisfied, why,.,

COG: And even after we retired, we had no desire to leave.We've traveled all over the world a lot. It's been nice to come back and have a place where your roots are down. Or family has been here. I have no desire to move someplace else.

SS: Do you know of any better growing country?

CG: There isn't.

COG: Well, you could have, our seasons are different, We don't have the rainfall that we used to. And you know your ground gets kind of worn out, I guess. And the crops aren't as, gardensAare harder to raise now than they used to be because you have to water them more and fertilize and spray and all of that stuff.But, you know, as a general thing, I think your climate and your conditions are pretty good here.

SS: But there's been a decrease of rain.

COG: Yes,

SS: Over a long period of time?

COG: Gradually I think, for several years. There's been less rain during the growing season when you need it.

SS: Like the last ten years?

COG: Oh yes, longer than that.

CG: These farmers up here can't afford if they don't get a hundred, they're not satisfied.

COG: On the farms.

SS: What about the melons in the valley?

COG: We just don't have anymore. Might have a few in your garden but they die. Arrow has them down the canyon and they call those Juliaetta melons, But they don't have them, They used to ship them by carloads here and truck them out.

SS: Were they good?

COG: Yes. Did you see this one picture in here of the watermelons? Look at theraised size of them there.Now those right over here on this hill,

SS: Forty pounds?

COG: Oh yes. Those will probably all go that. But just look at them. They're great big melons, and that.

SS: I think I should get going.

CG: Refrigeration was nice Iunderstand, that big square. Pack in these ice houses down here. That would last until next year.

SS: Until the next winter?

CG: Yeah.

SS: How was that organized? Would guys go out and cut it?

CG: We took the job of putting up this service so and so and we take a team of horses and a sled and go over there and that ice out and haul her and put her

COG: Pack it in sawdust.

CG: In sawdust in them sheds,

SS: How long would they, would they store fruit in the refrigeration.

CG: Sure. All the refrigeration they had.

COG: After we were married we had an icebox for a. long, long time. Yah, four or five years, six years after we were married^we had our first electric freezer Just iceboxes and go down and get a block of ice,

SS: Was that stored before shipping it sometimes for quite a while?

COG: Oh, no.

CG: They'd have a building built that wide packed with sawdust and then you'd put that in then it all be packed,

COG: They would just take out ice, they didn't store anything in there with the ice. They would just take out and use it, Cafes and resturants. Ice cream parlors and people would go down and buy a chunk of ice to put in your ice box. Or times you just put it in a tub. That's all I had for a long time. Didn't even have an ice box. Just a tub and you'd put your ice in there. Put something over it to hold it in there and put your milk or butter or stuff around,

SS: the ice houses?

COG: Oh yes,

CG: Each building..

COG: The meat market had one and the stores had one.

CG: Each store would have his own ice shed,

COG: They'd have their own ice house. You'd go down and buy ice from 'em.Very few people put it up for themselves, 'cause they didn't have a building suitable, you know, that way,

SS: They'd get it from the stores?

COG: You'd go down there and buy your chunk of ice.

SS: They'd ship it like those cherries?

COG: In refrigerator cars. That they would come and pick up the cherries,

CG: The railroad company.

COG: Yeah, the railroad company had to keep the ice. They used ice in the cars. They'd re-ice the cars every so of tent

CG: Railroad all had their own ice and everything.

COG: Yeah, the depot had an icehouse,

CG: Now things don't even freeze over anymore,

COG: Not enough water in them that you could cut a block of ice. It contaminated. I suppose it was then, for that matter. No, you wouldn't be allowed to cut ice off of a river now and use it. That's all we ever used, Nobody died from it that I know of.

SS: Is there a special saw that they used for cutting ice?

CG: Hand saw. Cross cut. Or a one man saw, most definitely,

COG: And they usually cut 'em in great, big blocks. We used to skate from here to Kendrick on the river. In the wintertime we could skate up and down, be a few places that you'd have to walk around, kind of riffley and rough, or something. But most of the time we could skate clear to Kendrick and back.

SS: That must have been fun.

COG: We did a lot of skating then around that way, A great deal of skating for entertainment. Lot of fun.

CG: I 've still got an old pair of ice tongs.

COG: No, I don't think we have any of our old ice skates anymore,

CG: I got a pair of ice tongs.

COG: Yeah your ice tongs. Yeah, he used to have a pair, I don't know what happened to them, I don't know where they are,

CG: Dig money out of my pocket,

COG: that was about the first year we were married. And that was depression years when money

CG: The dollar then was as big as a wagon wheel, But we had to dig money up and pay for that and the banker told me to buy every orchard I could,

SS: Was that Porter?

COG: No, Barrons,

SS: Why was he telling you that?

COG: Well he thought it was a good investment.

CG: He thought it was going to be a good investment,

SS: How many did you get to buy?

CG: I think four, five hundred dollars, I could dig up to pay that, to come out.

COG: Which then in 1929-30 was a lot(chuckles) of money. But after that, the cherry market went blooey. And people began taking out their orchards,

SS: Was that the end of it, around depression?

COG: Practically, yes,

SS: It had been shakey before that?

COG: Well, it had bee^good. All our whole place here we had cherry orchard in this.

SS: So the market was pretty good right up to...

COG: It was good until that one time when they had to pay all their freight charges. See, they sent them out on consignment. And you took what the market gave you when they got back there. You didn't have any definite price quoted you, And the market went hooey,

CG: Somebody made a lot of money on it.

COG: It was, I don't know what happened, but anyway, everybody had to dig up money to pay the freight charges, Refrigerator cars and all of that to send them back.

SS: You figure the money was made somewhere back east?

COG: Well no doubt on the job or someplace. But the orchards began coming out,

SS: They shipped them back to you?

COG: Oh no...

SS: They sold low?

COG: Ues, and not enough to pay their expenses at all you see. All their boxes and their packing, their picking and everything.

CG: We paid an express charges on it.

SS: That was the first ±tme you had to pay express?

COG: That was the worst, yes.

CG: In '29 and '30, along ' there, things were pretty darn tough, I tell you,

SS: Do you know where they were sold back east?

COG: No I don't, I don't know where they went. Different places at different times. But I know Lillian packed cherries a lot down here, I think I worked one day, and I thought, no more of it, I'd rather go out and pick cherries. And I would go out and pick cherries. And I could do better picking cherries than I could packing,(laughs) SS; Were they hard to pack?

COG: Well, no, if you got onto it, And it was tiresome standing in that one posistion and you had to pack so many cherries to a row and so many, and they had to be just perfect cherries,

SS: One at a time? COG: Yes. Oh yes. And I think then we got a cent a pound for picking them. And if the picking was poor, towards the end of the season, or poor tree, we'd maybe get a cent and a half or possibly two cents a pound for picking. And I could make more picking cherries than I could,

CG: We made the boxes and lid 'em and loaded 'em into cars. Shipped 'em out.

SS: How did they pack them in the box? Layers?

COG: Yes.

CG: Box was about that wide and about yay long

COG: And there was kind of two sections in hal And you had to have so many cherries across your first row. And the stems had to be turned up, AndAyour second row had to be placed in between those stems. And every row had to be perfect that way. I don't know, was it two rows? How many rows to a box were there? I've forgotten. Probably three rows or four rows to a box, I mean thicknesses. Heights.About four, I think,

SS: Just pack them in?

COG: You don't see them that way in the stores anymore.

CG: When you opened tha£, the latch of your lids you turned that over,

COG: And your rows of cherries was just, they didn't show. And they were really, a good packer

SS: The stems didn't show at all?

COG: No. Uh uh. And that's the way.

CG: You had to have the stem on the cherry, Astemless cherry was acull,

SS: What were the kinds they shipped back?

COG: Lambert's mostly. There were Bings too. Bings were easier to pack. They were kind of asnubbed nosed cherry. They were easier to fit in. But there weren't as many of the Bings around. They would crack more easily.

CG: Sold culls to abootlegger in Spokane.AThey'd take the culls and sell it to that bootlegger. And he come down and get a whole lot,

SS: Would he use them?

CG: Sure.

SS: Could he use them to make booze?

CG: Sure. He'd make booze out of 'em,

SS: I didn't know you could use cherries.

CG: (undecipherable) They were making a bunch of stuff here a year ago or two years ago. Two years ago.

COG: Making plum wine,

CG: Little neighbor boy asked me what I was making, and I said jam,Boy, he stood around for a little while and he finally says, "Boy it would sure take a lot of toast for that much jam!"

COG: He was only about three years old here. Little kid across the street, Paul Gravele's little boy. (laughter) We laughed about that. Boy, that sure would take a lot of toast for that much jam!"

SS: When you were picking, was that something that girls would do in groups?

COG: Oh yes. Well, you were assigned, you were given a tree, You had to pick that tree clean.

CG: You got a cent a pound for picking cherries.

COG: And lots of times, a half or three quarters of a cent a pound if it was real good. Trees weren't too big. You had a bigger tree.

SS: Where were the main orchards around here? Did a lot of people have them?

COG: Yes. I used to pick at Jim Fisher's orchard a lot, which is across the bridge from out here at the end of the bridge, And there were many big orchards all around. And then the Cook orchard up the canyon,

CG: Up in here,

COG: The Cook's orchard and the Froigs orchard.

CG: Used canyon.

COG: This, up the little Potlatch up here, And we'd walk up there. And that would be what? Two or three miles at least that you'd walk up and pick cherries all day and walk home at night. And nobody had a car, YOu didn't have a car.

SS: You wouldn't sleep over?

COG: Oh no. d walk back at night. And walk back up in the morning and pick, But I used - out here at Jim Fisher's an awful lot, And then, see the old Castle, that was known as that, the Adams orchards, that whole place was in orchards, a big orchards. And there were orchards all over town, all up and down every place, was in cherry orchard for a while. And it was quite an industry here for a long time.

CG: pulled a lot of 'em with a team of horses,

COG: That was after we were married. Pulled the trees out,

CG: This place over here was all orchards.

SS: You pulled them out? Did you make more money? Would you put in a crop then? ell, just to get the trees out of the ground, when they'd gone behind so many times.Then it got so they began to get wormy and you had to spray and do so many things that there just wasn't the money in them anymore. And people just took out the orchards to get rid of them. Raise melons and tomatoes.

CG: I don't think we ever did can cherries,

COG: I don't think so. The cherries were packed out. They didn't can the cherries, they were packed. And shipped,

SS: Is that because there were too many cherries for the market?

COG: I don't know, I think they probably got more out of them that way then,

SS: I mean in the end.

COG: Well I don't know. Depression years, people just didn't have the money to spend on fancy fruit.

SS: It sounds risky.

COG: It was risky. If rain came about when the cherries were ready to be harvested, then they would split and crack. And your whole crop may just be gone over night. Especially if it would rain.

CG: ...more of flatter on the bottom. Well,Lambert's was kind of a peaked cherry,

COG: About like it is now. In last of June, July, See the cherries are on now, that is, they're practically gone now. But it would be quite a long season of picking and packing And then the tomatoes would be a fall crop, That was usually up in September and October worked in tomatoes. And string beans was usually later, up in, towards fall,

SS: Were the tomatoes that were packed there, were they mostly grown right around.

COG: The tomatoes that were canned, yes, were raised around this way. They picked them in lug boxes, a big lug box and took them to the cannery in big lug boxes. They were raised here. And Mahon's rented, I guess, a lot of the valley land down around Spaulding. And I think, didnt. they irrigate it then, water it from the river? I think they did, And they raised a lot of the tomatoes and beans there that were brought up to the cannery.

SS: What are!lug boxes?

COG: (chuckles) They're just a wooden box about, and about so high. Now an apple box...

SS: That's about two feet long?

COG: Yes, well I don't know but what we have one out here. Have we? I don't know whether we have any more or not. An apple box is taller and the apples and pears came in a taller box and not quite so long. The lug box, the cherry boxes and tomato boxes were longer and not quite so high. And they held about 35 to 40 pounds of cherries, would be a lug box,

CG: Peach box would hold about

COG: Yeah, peach box was smaller. And these had a different bar, little handle thing across the top where your boxes now have no hand grip to them which a lug box did. That's what used,..

SS: So probably most of the tomatoes didn't come from as far as Lewiston, they were mostly from around here?

COG: I don't know whether they brought any of the tomatoes up from Dustin's in Clarkston or not. I don't believe they did then.

CG: Here's that new breed from the university,

COG: Yeah, those tomatoes aren't doing, they have to be watered. They won't do any good. There's lots of them onftfut they aren't doing so well,

SS: Was that for work to do, was that pleasant?

COG: Oh yes, I think everybody enjoy it, They always got together you know and talked and visited as they worked. And we wore an oilcloth apron over us at the cannery to keep reasonably clean,

SS: It was an opportunity for community.

COG: And everybody did it. Everybody was in the same boat. No one had much money and were out to make whatever they could. And^the only work that young people could get to do. They could work in the fruit and cannery, It brought in quite a little money to the town.

SS: Was it mostly work, or was there time for visiting?

COG: It was work. You had to work or you wouldn't make anything. And the ones that played around just make much. And you were there to make money, You had to settle down to business and stay with it. And it got pretty tiresome. We sat on a lug box, these boxes turned upside down and you carried your own pillow if you wanted something softer than alug box to sit on, you'd take apillow to sit on and we sat out on an open porch, Big open part of the cannery there to work in the beans. And you sat there on that little low lug box all day long, where you could reach your beans in front of you and you put 'em in your lap and stemmed them and put 'em in abucket. And it got pretty tiresome And then when we worked in tomatoes, you stood inside and they had abelt come down, that their buckets of scald tomatoes on, and when you needed anew bucket of tomatoes, why you'd take the bucket off of the belt and put your empty bucket back on and then y°u Peeled them into big dishpans. They'd pour 'em into a big dishpan and you'd skin them, core them, and then put 'em in a bucket. I think we had something they punched each time they took a bucket, But it was work. Just any kind of automatic work, automatum that you just stay with constantly. The same thing over and over and over, why, it was work.

SS: Did you take breaks fairly often?

COG: Oh yes. They never stopped the machinery, Oh yeah, you could stop and have a snack and go back to work whenever you wanted to. That way, there was no set time or anything, when everybody quit or anything. Just on your own.

SS: That was differnt than a sawmill say, where everybody had to keep working all the time.

COG: Yes. But it was work. But as I remember it. we had a lot of fun with it.

SS: Were there ever injuries that you can remember there?

COG: Nothing more than cuts. You're working with knives all the time. And or something, and you had to keep them pretty sharp, as I remember, we used to have an emery wheel that you'd go and sharpen your knife or your little spoon-shaped knife that you used to dig the cores out of the pears out of the tomatoes.And you'd get cut a lot that time, that way, But outside of that, I don't think around the machinery, I don't remember of anyone ever being injured.From it, anything seriously at all,

SS: Iheard that at the begining of the cannery they thought about it being a co-op. But it turned out to be private,

COG: It was private, yes. I don't know, I think Mahon and Dustin, but I don't know whether they were togethert first and then Mahon bought Dustin out, or whether Dustin came later. I think it was just Mahon for a while. I'm not sure. You could find out quite a few of the details from Catherine though. She's quite a gal.

SS: Would you say that most of the women in town worked at the cannery?

COG: I think so. Everybody that could get away from home or could, And awfully lot of them did. This picture here in this paper

SS: I was thinking that after a long day's work, your mother coming home and then she'd have to take care of the house.

COG: Well mother didn't work there too long. I don't believe at first she didn't work there. My sister had to work with this other lady a lot, her daughter worked. And she had to be kind of under her supervision a long time until mother did start to work, But see there's thirteen women there and four men. Fourteen women and four men. And then several of us young,, girls, And that was quite a bit the crew, I believe. That's Mrs, Keefer and Mrs, Smith, Mrs, McLane, that's the wrong name. That should be Mrs. McGlynn, (reads name)

SS: Looks like most of these women are either married or,

COG: Well it's mother and daughter av^lot. This says Mrs. Higgenbottom, Well it isn't.It's Mrs. Higgenbottom, she was a great big tall woman, And her daughter Amanda and Mrs. Brumman and her daughter Ella, (backs to reciting names)

SS: I got the idea that women wouldn't work, they'd stay home. Maybe it was because they opportunity,.

COG: Well I think so a lot. They were pretty well taken care of, their families a lot' at home. And as these kids got older, they worked with their mothers. I think this was a smaller crew. This was at the begining. And then as it grew, as the cannery expanded in what they canned and the amounts that they canned then more people began to work there.

SS: I guess I'm thinking, how did women feel about work? Did they do it only out of necessity or did they enjoy the work?

COG: Mrs. McGlynn and Mrs. Lula Buchanan and Mrs. Reams were widows, That had families to take care of. Mr, and Mrs, Mick Smith, Mr, and Mrs, Higgen^ bottom, their husbands, several of them were widows,

SS: They would have to work.

COG: That had children and probably needed to work, yes, And I know after that there were the Oberlanders and the McCurns worked there an awfully lot. They were both widows. With children. And then the, Mrs. Bessie Buchanan was a widow and had adaughter. They worked flot, Agreat many of them, Ido believe, were widows alone that had children,

SS: Makes you wonder what widows did when they didn't have jobs,

COG: Just as mother, when we were left alone later on, she kept teachers an awfully lot. Boarded teachers here to help support us, And did quilting and things of that kind. To,

SS: Could you make money quilting?

COG: No, you didn't make money, The length of time^it took to quilt a quilt, yo you didn't make anything. Excepting that when you got it finished( you got a little bit of return for it,But you put in many, maHy, many hours quilting a quilt,

SS: Whoo would buy it?

COG: They didn't buy the quilt. They probably make the quilt, And you to do the quilting on it. Ordinarily, people that couldn't quilt or didnH have the time wouUhire you and you, they quilted for a dollar a spool, You used aspool of thread and Idon't know if there was ahundred yards to a spool then, much larger spools than what you have now. And they would get a dollar a spool for that thread that youAuse on that quilt. And you might use two or three spools or something on a quilt.

SS: How long did they...?

COG: Oh gracious!Days and days and days, really. Because quilting is slow. And a good quilter did tiny little stitches. I've got a beautiful quiltsthat my mother had quilted. But it took time, I used to learn to quilt. I quilted with her many a time,

SS: Do you think that was better money, what was the advantage of cannery work as compared to fruit picking?

COG: Oh yes. Lots of people couldn't pick fruit.They just couldn't climb over a tree. It had to be a younger person^ Climb around up in a tree and handle a ladder. Go up and down and do that.Older people didn't pick cherries.

SS: Would the cannery run straight without going down at all?

COG: No. There would be breaks in it. In between different fruits and things. There used to be quite a few prunes^around the area. And they were mostly dried. Two or three big prune dryers up on American Ridge and around different places. Big prune orchards, But those were picked and dried in these dryers they had. I don't think we ever fixed prunes at the cannery.But pears we did and tomatoes. And beans. Were the main crops. Once in a while, a day or two of some other fruit. But I think pears and tomatoes and beans were the main things canned,

SS: Do you think that, in the mills it would seem that men would work in the sawmills and be concerned about their wages. Do you think that the people who worked at the cannery felt they should be getting more?

COG: I don't think there was that feeling then. You were probably glad to get whatever they paid. And would take it on grumbling as- amatter of life, That's what they paid and that's what you made.

SS: Do you think the men made considerably more than the women?

COG: I think they did. They were paid a higher rate. And they were paid by the hour. Now the overseers of the cannery, the women who were^overseers and checked on your work and so on, they were paid by the hour. But when you worked by the piece, as they called it, so much a box, why, some people would make a great deal more than others,

SS: Because of speed,

COG: Because they were speedier. They could use their hands more quickly.

SS: That was something that just varied with the person?

COG: Yes. Surely. And it was quite an experience in our lives. But it was the only work around you know. The fruit and vegetables at that time, that's the only work outside of the harvest fields, that the men worked in the harvest around that way. But that was the only work for women and the young people.

SS: Do you remember at all the way it would be to work on tomatoes to make it go faster? I imagine it wouldn't take much to make a big difference in their speed,

COG: You see, these tomatoes were scalded. Sometimes they were so hot that you could hardly put 'em in your hands. And you had this little knife and you had to take all of that core out. Well, if you weren't careful you'd leave a lot of that in and maybe your bucket would come back to you when they start to pack them into the cans and out of that, and found that you were leaving skin on 'em or leaving some of that core in the tomato or if you were cuttingp and wasting too much of it, why then your bucket would come back and you'd have to go through it again. So you learned to be pretty careful, you know. In coring them well. And not too deep soA you wasted a lot of the tomato and got that core out of them. And still had a nice, firm, solid tomato and not all broken to pieces. Then those that were broken up? they were put into different cans. Cheaper class tomatoes,

SS: But you couldn't take too long..,?

COG: Oh you bet not! You learned to be pretty fast in taking those out and going through them. You bet. And you stayed with it pretty steady, I'll tell you.I don't remember how much a day we made.

SS: What about picking? Do you know how much you might make? Was the pay about as good?

COG: Well of course picking the cherries would be at a different time ' the things the cannery would be running. Beans and tomatoes were later in the fall. Your cherries were earlier.

SS: But you picked beans and tomatoes too?

COG: I never did. My sister said some of them put up a tent and stayed down there and picked beans for quite a long, for one summer, part of the summer or something. And I don't know, they were string beans, pretty good sized, long string beans. I don't know what variety they were. They seemed to be a nice bean. And they kept them coming.

SS: The cannery and a lot of these other buildings burned down. That's something I wanted to ask you about. Do you figure that some of these fires were set?

COG: Well at the time everybody thoroughly believed it, yesf They were all under mysterious circumstances and business, you know, the depression years had hit their profits were down and it was justAway from getting out from under,

SS: Is that when the first hit Main street?

COG: Oh yes.

SS: Depression?

COG: This one big store, Alexander's store burned the first year 1 taught school at the fall of '25 I started teaching the first year. And that one burned while I was up there. And then Houks garage where the Sundowner is now, that was a big garage, that burned,

CG: At one time it was a big hardware.

COG: It was a hardware originally, yes,A beautiful, big hardware that was turned into agarage. That burned in 1930. The day our first son was born, 1930. And so during that period, along through there, so many of the stores and buildings burned. And even houses. But of course, that was the general supposition at the time, that they all burned under mysterious circumstances For no reason at all. All the ones that,Ait was insurance purposes,

SS: It's surprising that the town didn't burn. Didn't spread more than it did,

CG: You can tell by that picture, and go down and look at it now.

COG: Let me see, what other..,

SS: The cannery itself burned.

COG: Yes.The cannery burned. I don't remember what year it burned then,either. And they had practically quit the cannery work when it burned. It wasn't, I don't think it had been operating recently when it burned.

SS: There was a suspicion that was arson,

COG: Yes. That, I don't remember what year, but I know they had kind of quit and gone, had fling you might say, and was through.

SS: This was after the depression?

COG: Well, it was during those years, early years. I don't remember what year,

CG: It was before the depression stopped.

COG: Well during the '29,'30,'31 I don't know just what year, Yeah? we were married in 1929,

SS: Alexander's

CG: Biggest. fires was In 19 and 20 and,.,

COG: Well, Alexander's burned when I was teaching in Leland in '25 and '26, That winter of '25 and '26 when I was teaching at Leland,And the garage burned in 1930, And in June. When, June the second, exactly, ''cause that's when our first son was born. That was the day that that garage burned.

SS: Do you remember Alexander?

COG: Oh heavens yes!

SS: What were they like?

COG: They were awonderful, wonderfrul had Alexander's store. His uncle, old Uncle Joe had astore in Lewiston. Alexander's store.

SS: That was his uncle?

COG: Old Uncle Joe. And this is young Uncle Joe Alexander that had the store here- And Idon't know whether you knew Eban Adams when he was in Moscow with the Washington Water Power man for along time. He was their bookkeeper, at the store for many many years. And clerk too.

SS: Was Mrs. Alexander local?

COG: Yes. She was born right up here at Leland on Fairview, just at the top of the hill. The old Johnson... and it was her sister's father-in-law that built the old castle And Mary Adams was asister to Amanda Alexander. They lived, Amanda lived in the house at the end of Main street where Polumskys live now. Idon't know, No, Mary lived there. Amanda lived in the next house. They were well kept, lovely places then.

SS: What kind of, as a merchant, how was he?

COG: I think yes. They had everything in their store. It was acomplete department, grocery store, hardware, about everything, you know, general store. It was abig store for that time. And areal good store,

SS: How good was he about credit?

COG: Idon't know, Idon't remember that part of it, Iknow everybody usually had credit.lt probably a lot of it he didn't collect, probably,

SS: That was usual for these stores.

COG: Yes. Andres and Needham had astore on the opposite corner, Where the little city park, where that little park area is now next to that cafe, Niles and Needham's store, that shows on this picture, And that was abig department store. That burned too, didn't it? Yes.

SS: Do you think that people held it against Alexander that he was Jewish?

COG: Idon't think, did. Idon't think that made any difference. At all, He died long before the fire burned. Amanda and Eban, his wife and brother in-law practically then, continued the store. But I think Joe died long before the store burned.

CG: He has children still alive in Twin Falls.

SS: There were children?

COG: Oh yah. Ward still lives in American Falls. He's ateacher in American Falls.

CG: Ward's dead.

COG: No, not Ward. Carol is dead and Joe,Yes, he lives in American Falls, he's a teacher in American Falls.

SS: Was Alexander's store, did they both do about the same amount of business?

COG: Niles and Needham burned, they were out of business long before Alexander's quit, wasn't it?

CG: Anderson's.

COG: Oh yes, Anderson's People's store it was known then for awhile had it. They had the store after that, But my uncle, my aunt's husband had abarberr shop in that Niles and Needham store at one side of it there for along time.

SS: Do you think that people would be more likely to trade at one than the other?

COG: I don't think so then, uh uh. No. Whatever they needed,

SS: Ruth Leland, who worked at Alexander's said that,,,

COG: She worked there for many many years,

SS: She said he got a great deal of the Indian trade,

COG: There were always quite a few of the Indians from down there. Quite a few Indians living below town then^A few more than there are now. They this was their only place to come and trade. Closest place,

SS: Did you have any contacts with them?

COG: Oh yes. We knew all the Indians around. We didn't have any particular contact with them. I don't think they ever came to town to, the kids never went to school here or anything. I donH remember^any of the Indian youngsters being in school here.And I don't know where they went to school, whether they did or not. I don't think any of 'em ever came to school here. Arrow had a school then. If they aid they went to Arrow, There was a school there.

SS: Who were some of the Indians that you knew?

COG: The Abel McCarthy's lived across, and the Waters.Sevens, Molly Sevens is in the nursing home Lewiston. Her mother is, I see her quite often. She's bedfast most of the time.And Harrisons, There were a great many of the Indians up and down the valley. But they didn't have much contact,Acome to the store. They didn't attend anything here or go to anything that I remember.

SS: I'm curious about how you think people felt about them when you were growing up? Did they feel that they were inferior?

COG: They were just Indians and we just didn't haveAcontact with them, practically. Course distances then, you know, were different from distances now,I remember they used to have sweathouses all along the river and the railroad track, and we used to like to sneak over and take a look at their sweathouses along the river banks.(chuckles)

SS: Did the kids hear horror stories about the Indians scalping people?

COG: Not that I remember of. I know Lillian used to say that she'd be scared of the Indians that sit along the main street,or come up and sit around the street. But I don't remember being afraid of them or anything,

SS: I guess there were places in Lewiston where they couldn't go in,

COG: Oh yes, oh yes! They couldn't go into the cafes and places,

CG: You couldn't even sell 'em beer.

COG: No, you couldn't sell beer or anything.,

SS: In town here?

COG: Any place, The only person I ever remember of ever being afraid of was an old shoemaker, He had a little shop across the street from , well next to the old hotel. A little old two storied, ramshaekety old building, but he was a shoe cobbler. We'd take our shoes down to be half soled, and I was particularly hard on shoes. And so I had to have my shoes seled or the toes fixed about every so often. Of course, high shoes, you know. He used to be scared to death.He was, I think Austrian or Hungarian, Austrian probably. And he couldn't speak English, And he had a foul smelling pipe and he had the stump of that old pipe in his mouth.

COG: And get my shoes, or take them down to him to be fixed, And I know one time when I took my shoes down, he gave me a nickle. And boy, after that, he was a pretty good guy.(chuckles) I wasn't afraid of him any more. Because he couldn't talk and he was crippled, and everybody said, Muzick will get you." Or,"I'll send you to old Muzick." He was just kind of the bogie man around town. He - married or anything, had no family. Just lived there alone and existed alone. But pretty good old shoemaker.

SS: Scared the kids probably,

COG: Surely. Because he couldn't talk English and muttered and just humor of being crippled that way. I used to be scared of Muzick,(discussion of how the name was spelled) I don't know what his first name was, was just Muzick as far as I remember him.

SS: Do your remember the Children's Day Pagent at the park?

COG: Yes. I have a picture of out here on the yard of the winding the Maypole. We always had Maypole winding on Children's Day, And wind the Maypole, put up a tall pole and have your streamers, you know, and march around and weave around, you know, and weave that pole with the long streamers, mostly paper. And everybody dressed up in their finest white dresses-We've got a picture of the group winding the Maypole out here in our yard one year,

SS: Was this an expensive affair?

COG: I think that was through the Sunday School, I think the one that we had out here in the yard, I think was a Sunday School Children'ss Day.

SS: That was right here?

COG: Yes, on our yard out here. That particular winding the Maypole was. We got apicture. And didn't have too many pictures of things in those days. But it's apretty good sized picture of all kids winding the Maypole.

SS: Was this an annual event?

COG: Ithink it was quite so then. Quite so. We used to have it quite often.

SS: I heard that they often had it down at the.

COG: At the park. Down where the cannery, that area, where the mill is now was the park area. And it was always quite acelebration, quite aday. And they used to have the Chataqua tents come and put up abig Chataqua tent and have their entertainments there. Traveling groups would come through,

SS: Were they popular?

COG: Oh yes. That was looked forward to,

SS: What do you remember what they did?

COG: Idon't know. Usually they would haveAlittle plays and magicians and Idon't know, almost on the circus type it would be. But Idon't remember too much of the programs would have these Chataqua tents come through and people would attend from all around

SS: Did the park get a lot of use by the town?

COG: It was the only ball field around and they had%ig ball field there and they had lots of ballgames, And we always had our school picnics and the Fourth of July celebrations were part of them, Up and down Main street. speakers and things. Ithink it was used quite abit, yes. And only kids would go there to play.

SS: It seems that it was a nice place.

COG: It was pretty. Big cottonwood trees and evergreen trees. Alot of big cotton wood trees all around through it, And in the spring, it was anice place. Iwish we had it now. Course the mill has brought in alot of money, alot of work to people. Park of course didn't. It's too bad, it was the only area suitable for a park, we lost it.

SS: It made me wonder if there wasn't another place they could have put the mill.

COG: But you know, your hindsight is always better than your foresight,(laughs)

SS: When was it the mill came here?

COG: Oh golly, let me see. Twenty years? Must have been, when did it, Kirkpatrick started the mill. Forties, was it that far? Has it been thirty years that it's been going? Thirty five years? I don't know whether it's been that long. Fifties.

SS: At the time did they have misgivings about it?

COG: They said if the mill lasted ten years, it would be doing well. At the time. it was built, They figured ten years, And it's been far longer than ten years. And it has increased and been rebuilt, fixed over,

SS: Did park to them?

COG: For what was it, a dollar a year that they deeded, gave them the ground for a dollar a year I guess. I don't know. That was in the begining I think it was.

SS: Was your family active in any of the churches?

COG: Yes, mother, the dugout, they called this the dugout, basement church was the Methodist church. And she and the family worked in that Methodist church. Then, til the top of it was built.

SS: They didn't have the money to build the top?

COG: No. at first it was just the basement part, And they had services in the basement of that part of it til they could get money enough to build the top. And that was built on then. So we've always, been our churche From then on we've always been in that church with my family, And still are,

SS: I get the impression that Juliaetta has had many churches, been a strong church community,

COG: Too many churches for a small area,See, this Lutheran church was right down here, the second house below here, just in back of this one on the corner. And it burned, was it a Christmas program? After a Christmas program, I believe at Christmas time. Whether it was candles, or I don't remember or overheated stove. It burned and then they built the new Lutheran church. It's on the street above Ted Groseclose's there, Nice brick building. And that's where the old Christian church used to be,That was torn down and this was built andAthere was a Catholic church, well, straight across from the school.Where, what's the other Groseclose that lives over there? Yellow house, across the street from that was the Catholic church, It was torn down, it didn't burn. It was torn down and the Catholics were never very strong here. At that time there were quite a few, It just disbanded, was torn down. Then there was the old Presbyterian church that had been made over into a home where Skaggs live, I don't know whether if you know their house. That was the old Presbyterian church. And that was remodeled into a home.

SS: I've seen this in other towns where there are too many churches,

COG: Too many churches for a small community to support,

SS: Like the Christian church died too,

COG: Yes, It was, you can see by the picture that that was a big$ big church, thriving church at one time there,

SS: What do you think is the reason that the Christian church would decline?

COG: At that time there weren't too many of the churches here, I think the Christian church and the Presbyterian church, we worked in the Presbyterian church, I know when we first came here. Mother's churchf until it disbanded and this other one started, And the Presbyterian, and the Christian and the Lutheran churches I believe, were the three particular strong churches thent You see, now we have^Nazarene and the Seventh Day Adventists,, combined with the Mormon, The Seventh Day Adventists have it on Saturdays and the Mormons have started recently now, just within the last, year, its the first time there's ever been a Mormon church here. And that's started. And they have the Seventh Day Adventist church on The Advents have it. on Saturday, And they're picking up quite a few now, I understand,And then there is the community church.The Methodist church disbanded as a Methodist church,Several years ago, when it oh, conference claims and expenses and you had to send so much money out to maintain it in the conference. And then Kendrick and Juliaetta were combined, and leland, in the Methodist community church, which meant you only had services divided.

SS: Divided?

COG: The minister went,one place and then the other, He didn't live here and didn't give much time, And so we became just a community church, and independent community church and that's what we have now.

SS: Is that enlarged membership?

COG: No. Some of them retained their membership in the Methodist church when it disbanded. We had our choice of putting our membership in the Methodist church at Kendrick. When it disbanded. We had our choice of putting our membership in the Kendrick Methodist church or leaving it as a community church here, And then the Lutheran church is quite strong here. But when you take that many active churches, for a small community, it divides.

SS: What happened to the Presbyterian church?

COG: I don't remember what caused the Presbyterian church, well it became a Church United Brethren, Yes, the United Brethren Church took over the Presbyterian.

SS: Some of the same members?

COG: Yes, And that's I think why we went into the Methodist church, The United Brethren, they were quite strong here for quite a long time, And then it gradually, I guess quit, didn't they? They just, for some reason, Iguess most of them either moved away or they just quit. And that's when the building was bought by Art Johns and he made it over into this home then,

SS: Do you think that people's church affiliation is decided a lot by where their friends are going to church?

COG: Yes, I think so, I think that has a lot to do with it. There's quite a large number of the younger group that have gpne into the Lutheran church because they're quite demanding in their membership. And those that were Lutherans have stayed with it. And it has brought in ,1 think, quite a few more of the younger generation, I believe,

SS: Demanding?

COG: They demand your attendance, you might say and a great deal more than some of the congregations do. And they're confirmation and classes that they have for the children and so on, And there are quite a few of the young married group that are quite good workers in the Lutheran church,

SS: Have revivals been important in Juliaetta?

COG: Yes. I should say, in the early days, revivals were you might say, the highlight of the winter.(laughs) Revival came to town, everybody went to church. Especially the early Methodist church and the United Brethren church. They had some riproare^s. They'd have a couple of weeks or so at a time, first one church then the other, and they were really

SS: Would they be very sucessful as far as conversions?

COG: Oh yes. For the time being at least. How long they stayed with it, I don't remember. Of course, some of them did. You bet. They would have their baptisms down at the river and it was

SS: Do you remember what the preaching was like?

COG: Hell fire and brimstone, mostly, I think. And pretty loud, you know,and you bet. "If you didn't do as I say, you'd sure go to hell in a hurry!"(laughs),

SS: I would think...

COG: It worked on the emotions of you know. That was it, it was emotional and people made a big todo over it and riproaring and yelling and shouting and amening you know. It was just more emotional than religious. Actually,

SS: What about the young people, would they get involved?

COG: Oh yes. Definitely.

SS: As a kid, I would be scared of that,

COG: Well, Idon't think anyone was really, Idon't remember any feeling that way about it. Excepting that my friends went forward and did all this then of course, Ishould too, you know. And it was achain event alot, than actual religious motive, I think,

CG: Skin deep,

COG: Yeah, skin.' deep.

SS: Sounds like you could feel pressure,

COG: Well there was. There was pressure, yes. Oh boy, sometimes those services, the last half of the night, you know. And really,..

SS: Would kids stay up for that?

COG: Oh yes. And then, everybody took all the youngsters to church, I mean, you didn't have a babysitter downstairs for all the kids to go to. They went with their parents and stayed with their parents during church, If they went to sleep, you on the bench and let 'sm sleep. But the family as a whole always.

SS: Was there much socializing in the revival? Or was it mostly religious? Would they have potlucks?

COG: I don't think so. I don't remember of that, I don't think so.

SS: That would cut down socializing,

COG: Just plain church services. Get long

SS: In the church.

COG: Oh yes.

SS: They were usually in the winter?

COG: So, fr great deal more in the wintertime.

SS: Do you think that would affect the church membership, as far as which church you would belong to? Would that realign people%s affiliation?

COG: I imagine it did to a certain extent, It did, I know, I think the Presbytert ians too, had their revival meetings, I think all the earlier churches did,

SS: All the denominations.

COG: Yes, I think they all did. And usually had outside speakers, preachers come through that were evangelists.

SS: Somehow when I think of Presbyterians, I don't know much about them, but it seems they would be less demonstrative.

COG: I think so. And the Christian church, as a rule wasn't much either, I don't believe, I know it used to be before we even started, I know but I think even before we became members of the Methodist church, in the dug out, the lower part, boy, they had some riproarers down there.(laughs) going a lot of times. They used to have the church conference quite a little bit. And that was when quite a few of the Indians from Lapwai and Spaulding always came up to the conference meeting5. They attended quite often here. And that was, I think, after the top of the church was built when Hascow was, that was about the time we were married. It was built before we were married, Hascow was here and he married us and he married my brother and that was the first wedding he had had. When was and Hazel married? Seven or eight years before we were. Oh yeah, more than that.

SS: Would the emotional things be personal testimonies?

COG: Yes.

SS: Do you remember any speaking in tongues? I've heard about that, As part of the old days.

COG: I think the United Brethren[believed in that a great deal,. Talking in tongues seems to me some of those did, Yes,

SS: Was much of that anti-drinking?

COG: I don't think there was the drinking then that

SS: I'm thinking of like in Moscow, they had a lot of anti-liquorf

COG: Oh yes, definitely. Card playing, gosh, we never had a deck of cards in the house. Mother wouldn't allow us to have a deck of cards in the house at all til years and years and years, That was out. That is, playing cards. You could play flinch and rook and old maid or something like that. But you couldn't have a deck of playing cards. That was a difference,(laughs)

SS: What was the difference?

COG: Well playing cards were gambling cards, you know, and

SS: What about dancing?

COG: Well they had a lot of dances around.^They had several dance halls,

SS: So that wasn't too discouraged.

COG: Oh yes, by a lot of the religons, they were,

SS: But people danced anyway,

COG: Well, yeah. I was too young for

SS: I imagine a lot of people^ it anyway,

COG: Well I suppose. The moonshine days we did. But you didn't have your bars and clubs and there wasn't the social drinking, I don't think, You know, well I know there wasn't the social drinking that there is today. Illegal to have moonshine.

SS: Did you ever hear of the Porter School of Art ?

COG: Yes. Mrs, R.H. Porter. Yeah, R, H. Porter was a brother to E,W, Porter. He lived across the bridge over on the flat. They had a big cherry orchard over there, the old Porter orchard. Mrs. Porter had a school of painting. And I know Mary Adams was one of them and the Overlander girls and Gertie Snyder. Mrs, Archie Snyder, They live in Clarkston, I was thinking they lived in Moscow, but they moved to Lewiston,

SS: Were students?

COG: Were students of hers. There were quite a few of them. The Joclyn girls Mabel and Maude Joclyn, I think. Took painting lessons from'her. I don't know what kind of a school it was or hbw much it amounted to, but I know she taught painting lessons,

SS: Did you see any of the work?

COG: Oh I think so, at that time. And Mary Adams, after that became, she was pretty good at painting. She was a sister the Alexander , that had the store, And she was quite a painter, Not portrait, but she had some protraits and quite a few things.

SS: This went on for quite a few years?

COG: Well I don't know. I guess they did call it a school. It was just her home, yes and she just gave private lessons, I don't think it was really what you'd consider a school today, no. But she did have paintings, I don*t know if it was more than painting or not,

SS: Speaking of Adams. Did you ever hear why he built the Castle? Making it look like it did?

COG: It was just built as a home.

SS: I mean the way it looks,

COG: I don't know,

SS: He could have built a home like this.

COG: Yes, I don't know why. Course, he built it out of the blocks, The blocks were made here.

CG: The man lived in it til he died and then,,,

COG: I don't remember his wife. Do you remember Mrs. Adams? I dont remember her, I remember old Mr. Adams.

CG: ...lived out there when I used to haul coal to,Burned a ton of coal every month.

COG: Heat that building,

SS: Didn't heat too good.

COG: It was a drafty old thing. Then his son, Eban and Mary Adams lived in the place after he died for many many years. Well, til they went?

CG: ...she had a upstairs,

COG: Oh yes, Mrs. Bramble. Brants lived there after Adams* went to Moscow,Moved to Moscow.

SS: What about this trouble he got into over the wheat?

COG: I don't remember what that was, I don't - what the deal was from that. I know he used to make an awfully lot of wine. Had it stored in his basement down there.

CG: Who?

COG: Old Mr. Adams.

CG: He's the one that started this new wheat.

COG: Yeah this wheat deal. Well that was Ben Adams, wasn't it?

CG: No, that was the old..

COG: Was that the old man? I thought it was Ben.

SS: Do you think he sold much of it?

CG: They finally got after the old fella and he had to quit,

COG: I don't know what the deal was,

CG: Five heads on a stem.

SS: Is that why saying it would make a lot of heads on the stem?

COG: I don't remember what the whole deal was.

CG: The government finally got after him,

SS: That's what I heard. He was more or less a promoter?

COG: He had a large cherry orchard and he raised grapes there on that place, Old man Adams.

SS: Was he thought of as something of a character?

CG: We used to throw snowballs at him,

COG: (laughs) Well I'd once or twice, some of them got into his basement and stflild some of his wine. Wasn't that the old man Adams?

CG: That was old Hines down there,

SS: Who?

COG: Hines. Austrians that lived down there at the end of town,

CG: Adams, he didn't make it.

COG: Oh yes he did.(laughs)

SS: When did you decide you wanted to get into teaching?

COG: Oh, I guess all my life.(laughs)

SS: When you were a kid at school?

COG: Oh, Lillian taught school for a few years before she was married. I'd always kind of thought I wanted to be a nurse until 1^ had my foot broken and was in the hospital quite a while with different things with my broken foot for a couple of years. The doctor said,"Oh, you'll never be able to nurse, That you couldn't stand that."

SS: What do you mean?

COG: I had a crippled foot, that it would be harder work for meA nursing, So I finally went in, went to school, went and taught. Taught for 32 years,

SS: Did you go to Lewiston Normal?

COG: Yes, That was the old Lewiston Normal,

SS: What kind of training did they give you?

COG: Well,^purely academical then.You just trained to be a primary or a secondary teacher.Intermediate or secondary teaching, YOu took two years. And at the end of two years, and it was all academical, didn't have all the folderols that they have now, you know, and things were just the essentials, you might say, I graduated in 1925. And that gave me a life certificate. Two years then gave you a life certificate for teaching, I could still teach on it today,

SS: Two years post high school?

COG: Yes, I had high school. My twelve years of school here,And then after that, well yes, that gave me my life certificate which was good for life at that time. And I taught four years before we were married. Then married women of couldn't teach. They just were out school There were too many men and well, married teachers just couldn't get a job, that was all. So I didn't teach then for several years after we were married, And.st

CG: Wasn't very many years,

COG: Well Ken was six years old when I started teaching, We had been married about 10 or 11 years, Well then the war years started? you see again more. And men weren't available for teaching. And so then they started hiring, I went to Kendrick to substitute for a month when one of the teachers wanted to go see her army husband, so I went up to substitute for her for a month when she went back to visit her husband in some camp someplace and she decided to stay and so I stayed on too, then,

SS: That doesn't seem very fair.

COG: You couldn't teach practically. They wouldn't hire married teachers, married women. They just weren't supposed to I guess they wouldn't give enough time to school or what. But that was the supposition. I was teaching in Southern Idaho, a little town out from American Falls, And been there three years. Well I was offered the school back if I didn't marry, But if I got married, that was it. And married women, it was either single girls or men that taught. You just couldn't get a school anyplace, married women could teach practically. They were just banned. This wasn't just one place. This was all over.

SS: Do you think this was an agreement or some kind of law?

COG: Well it wasn't any law. It was just policy, I guess, as much as anything, yes.

SS: Did they figure that husbands should support -the women?

COG: I suppose that the women should take care of the home and the family. They couldn't do both.( chuckles)

SS: Do you think that had an effect on some women staying single and not marrying?

COG: Oh, if they, I don't know. It didn't me,(laughs) I don't know, I doubt it,

SS: Seems like they'd be forcing a person to choose,,,

COG: Well at that time practically^did. But you know then, a teacher didnH stay in one school very long. You stayed in a school two or three years, why that was about it. And then they figured, well, it was time for you to go on as a rule. And they didn't have any tenure laws or anything like that then. And if the board didn't want you, why they just didn't rehire you. If you wanted to go on someplace else, why fine and dandy. That was it,

SS: What if you wanted to teach in your hometown?

COG: They didn't very often, they wouldn't consider you,

SS: Why

COG: Because all the kids knew you and everybody else knew you. And it was better to have a stranger come in could probably handle the kids better than they thought maybe you could. You knew them too well. Grew up with them and so on.

COG: That was, I think, the idea then, that a stranger would do better than hometown.

SS: Did that seem fair to you at the time that you would have to quit teaching to get married?

COG: Well, I just accepted it, I mean, that was in Southern Idaho,

CG: She quit teaching.

COG: That's what I started doing. That was just the last six years, after we retired six years ago that we started in traveling an awful lot.

SS: One thing about Lewiston, could you be prepared for what you encountered in teaching by school?

COG: Not now, but I mean the education that we had then, you couldn't teach in the school today for it.

SS: Did it equip you to teach in the school back then?

COG: We had training centers. What they called their training centers, And you had to take one quarter,nine weeks and you went out to these training centers. One of 'em was at Sweetwater, one was at Hatwai and Reaskus, and little schools around Lewiston. And they had a supervisor and maybe, I don't know, six or eight, usually girls, sometimes there was a boy or two among them, would go out and have to spend that nine weeks at that training center. And you lived in the teacherageAall together and you did your cooking, your own washing, your own cleaning and you had to do your school janitor work and all of that. And you had certain classes then that you taught under the supervisor. Well that was supposed to be practical experience you know/ Staying away from home and roughing it and having to do your janitor work and you had to do your own cooking and you had to write lesson plans. You had to sit up half of the night writing just exactly everything you were going to do in class the next day. And that had to be given to the supervisor and she'd check it to see that everything was okay, you know, and that you knew what you were going to teach and how you were going to teach it.

SS: Was that harder than teaching itself?

COG: Gosh, I should say so. 'Cause those supervisors, they were something else. I'll tell you, they were slave drivers. Oh boy, that nine weeks, if you lived through that nine weeks you were ready to teach, I'll tell you.(laughs) I was out in Sweetwater, Merle Hall was my supervisor, Boy that was the roughest nine weeks I think I put in,(laughs)

SS: They stand over your shoulder all the time?

COG: Oh you bet! They were looking right down, your nose all the time, you know. They did everything. You had to do it just so so. We had to split our wood and carry our water there, To the school and do the scrubbing and cleaning of it. And that teacherage along with all the rest of it.

SS: How many there at once?

COG: I don't know,There must have been at Sweetwater, eight or nine of us probably at a quarter that would be out there. And you had to take that before you could graduate, that was required. If you were taking an elementary teachers course, that was required.

SS: Is this for all elementary teachers?

COG: No, all elementary teachers had to take that. In the old Lewiston Normal School. It was a Normal Training School is what it was then, That was teacher training. And then it closed down, you know, for many years I was. I took one class the last summer it was open. I took a science class there the last summer it was open. And then I took summer school after I went back to teaching here. Stayed with it, then I started taking summer school at Moscow until I graduated from Moscow university,

SS: The supervisors, was their philosophy of education and teaching one that worked in the schools?

COG: Well, at that time, surely, that was our method, But now I can see so many things that now you wouldn't think of doing that we had to do then.

SS: What kinds of things?

COG: For instance, if you had a left handed student,you were supposed to teach them right handed whether they weee right handed or not. They had to write right handed. That was the way they were supposed to right, And I know even after I started teaching here at Kendrick, why, we were supposed to change their method of writing and make a right handed person out of them. Which now why you know, you just absolutely, would be entirely the wrong thing. Yes^ good writers is right handed writers. You didn't then, You'd change them. Whether you could or not. And of course, I do think their fundamentals were stronger than they are now, You really taught reading and writing and 'rithmatic and spelling. That kids could do those things then that they can't now.

SS: Where did you teach?

COG: Up at Leland. They had quite a school up there. They had the first ten grades up there. And I taught up there just one year. And I had the fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth grades. Then I went to Southern Idaho to this town at Rockland, I had relatives living around there. And I taught seventh and eighth grades down there for three years,

SS: So you didn't do all eight?

COG: No, I never, I had fifth sixth,seventh and eighth the first year.ASeventh and eighth grades down there, That was, I had as many as, I had A3 seventh and eighth graders in one room.

SS: What was the school at Leland like?

COG: The first four grades, primary grades, and then I had the four intermediate. And then Calvert had ninth and tenth grades, And all he had was a normal certificate. And taught ninth and tenth grades,the two classes. So you know what classes it would be, you know, how many he could teach for ninth and tenth grade students,

SS: He had the easy job.

COG: Well, you know, you couldn't teach too many classes to ninth and tenth graders. In high school like they would now. Course, they wouldn't, it wasn't accredited or anything, no.

SS: What was it like for you teaching there?

COG: Well it ,we had a certain, I think we did our own janitor work. We had to four janitor work, keep our room up. Ithink the fires',1 we big stoves and I don't know how many kids I did have that year, About 35 in the four grades,sixth, seventh and eighth. Grades. Quite afew of them are living around here. I even had many of their kids and their grandkids before I quit teaching here. Three generations of them that And as I say, Iwent to Southern Idaho and had just seventh and eighth grade, And I wasn't a great deal older than a lot of my pupils. Boy, tell you, that was a handful,

SS: That made discipline rough?

COG: You bet. That was whmi they had state examinations for seventh and eighth graders. And the eighth graders had to take state examinations that were put out by the state board of education,And eighth grader had to pass all of those tests in everything before they could get out of the eighth grade. In the seventh grade they had to take physiology as it was called then, and geography and they had to pass those in the seventh grade, MM Before they could go into the eighth grade. If ididn't pass them the first year, you stayed in the grade the next year uniill you did. Or if you could go on in to the eighth grade, you had to go back in the seventh grade and take those classes over. And I, the first year I went out there to teach I had youngsters, it was their third year in the eighth grade. So they were practically as old as I was, And trying to get through the eighth grade state examinations. The county superintendent came out and gave those state examinations. Oh gosh, there were a list of questions that, I'm telling you, when the kids passed those exams, they knew something when they got out of the eighth grade then. They had to. It was a case of memory. It was just memorizing facts and dates and events is what it actually was.

SS: How come these kids were having three years in the eighth grade without being prepared to.,.

COG: the examinations, They just failed the exam. They had to have a grade of seventy five, an average. They had to have 85, seems to me, I remember or an average of 75 in order to pass. And you grade a paper to get 85 or 88 or get 89 on it, you know,

SS: Did you tutor,

COG: Oh no, the county superintendent,

SS: Did you give them any tutoring?

COG: Oh yes, Indeed so, You bet. It was just a case of drilling and drill and drill and drill. And repeat and go over things and over things until every body knew them. And then it depended upon how much of that retention they had that they could take their exams, Under pressure of the county superintend dent standing over them, I couldn't be in the room when they gave the tests or anything. The county superintendent came out and gave those tests, And every year they were different. We had, I remember I had a drawerAof old examinations, questions of every subject that the kids would work on and memorize the answers practically, of every question, I still have the letter that, the first year, it was only an eight month school, That's all they were then were eight month schools. And yet the high school had nine months, And the grades only had eight* But yet my eighth graders couldn't take their tests, their exams until the end of the nine months because some of the city schools had nine months. So that first year the school board asked if I wodld stay an extra month and keep tutoring the seventh and eighth graders so they could, because so many had been failing that month would hurt them. And they asked me if I would stay. So I had school the full nine months in my room. To keep at those kids. And I have a letter yet from the county superintendent, Cora E, Darling, that that was the best prepared eighth grade class that ever came out of the Rockwood School. So I felt pretty honored. And I was there three years. After that they had nine months for all the grades after that.

SS: What was the reason? Money for the extra month?

COG: I think so. The grades, most of the grades only had eight months around then,

SS: Were kids laying out of school a lot?

COG: The older ones did. They had to stay out to work, yes,

SS: Did that have much effect on retarding their preparation?

COG: Oh yes. Boys particularly had to stay out, And down around there,was potato country and they had potato vacations when the kids were out of school to pick potatos.

SS: Was that up here?

COG: No that was in the southern part of the state,

SS: I mean kids laying out?

COG: Well, towards spring they had to lay out to work? the older kids did. On the farm, but they younger ones didn't here,

SS: Was discipline, how did you deal with it?

COG: Well discipline then, youngsters then had a great deal more respect for home and teachers than they do now,

CG: You'd beat them,

SS: Is that what she did?

COG: (laughs) Oh, I don't think so. But you know, I had eighth grade kids there that were seventeen, eighteen years old and you know, I was only twenty then. So I wasn't a great deal older than they were.(laughs) I remember Merle Thorn particularly,Boyd, And Herbert Thorn, Merle Thorn was a boy that had been in, that was his third year in the eighth grade. Great big strapping do kid, but you didn't have the discipline problem actually that you. in school today, because kids just were brought up differently, This was a Mormon community in which I taught, And most of the youngsters were Mormons. And the Mormons had pretty good discipline among their children. That was one thing that they really dwelt on was respect for their church and school and elders. And so discipline really wasn't the problem that you'd have here in the fourth grade the last year I taught, as far as that goes. 'Cause you had parental backing. Whatever the teacher said was law. And now, boy it isn't. It's what the kids says is law now in school. And problems were a lot different, the last two or three years that I taught them " they were even in those days when I had so many more big youngsters to teach. And kids didn't have their cars and cigarettes and all of those things that they have at school. Dope. You didn't have any of those problems at all. Pretty good.

SS: Do you think it gets down to respect for the home?

COG: Well I think that's where it all begins, yes, And kids don't, parents don^t have the authority over youngsters that they used to, Even in any home, practically. do pretty much as they want to and come and go and say and do what they please, And very few of them have the discipline that they really need.

SS: Do you figure that's more negative than positive?

COG: I think so. Yes. And it certainly shows up in school, Boy, the last few years that I taught, I was very happy to get out of it, I was ready to quit, I mean, you look forward to that retirement. And boy when it came, I was certainly ready. And I've never gone back, I told them I said,"If you need me real badly, I might come and substitute. But dont ask me unless you absolutely have to have me."And I went over and substituted just once and I said,"Don't ask me to come back again, I won't do it, I don t want any part of it anymore." It's just so much government red tape, so many reports, so many stuff you don't have time to teach any more. All your time is taken up on reports and government stuff,

SS: Are kids harder to teach?

COG: Oh yes. They don't have the background for higher group now, Even fourth grade that I taught here all the time, They don't have the begining in the first grades that they had a few years back. The fundamentals, you know, reading and writing and arithmatic as they say, even when they get to college now they can't read, And I,

SS: What made you go to Southern Idaho to teach?

COG: Well, my sister had taught there and lived there and I went down because of her. Partly. And I had an aunt and uncle that had homesteaded in that area and lived in that area, And so my sister wanted me to come down, Particularly is why I went down then, And,..

SS: Did you two meet up around here?

COG: Oh yes, He, we always had been going together, chasing around for years before that,

CG: Ten years

COG: Not quite ten.

CG: Pretty close.

COG: About eight. That's almost ten, isn't it?(laughs) Yeah, we was still in high school and he lived not far from us afoi then finally over here by us- His sister happened to be my best pal. (laughs)She talked him into asking me for the first date.

SS: Where did you go on a date then? What would you do?

COG: Go sleighriding part of the time. And coasting and skating, If we could go to Kendrick once in a while to show with the horse and sled, why that was a big event to go to Kendrick to a show. We didn't have any shows here. I don't believe we had shows then did we? Once in a while down in the old Hines Hall we had shows here some too. But,

SS: What about the rivalry between Juliaetta and Kendrick? There seems to be some today.

CG: Used to fight like cats and dogs,

COG: It'd make us so mad that the boys that go to Kendrick and get a Kendrick girl in preference to us. Oh!(laughs) That was bad,

SS: What if a Kendrick boy came down and asked a Juliaetta girl out?

COG: I don't remember.

CG: They got the hill more.(laughter)

COG: I never did go with a Kendrick boy.

SS: It was okay for you guys to go up there and take their girls,

CG: But we stand our ground with 'em,

SS: Would it usually be over baseball that you'd fight? It didnt matter,

CG: Every time we got together.

COG: It was just general principles of towns, just(laughs)just general principle to be on the outs with them and fight. And you know, really, until this school consolidated and when they talked of consolidating, oh boy!That'S when the hornets really got busy around, "There was a lot of contention and trouble and fights over here,"My kids aren't going to go to Juliaetta to school!" "My kids won't ever go to Kendrick to school!vIt really was a hot house of trouble for a while, Until they were forced to do it by the state.

SS: Is that what did it?

COG: Oh yeah, really forced consolidation of your districts, you were forced to do it by the state so, otherwise, I cbn't think they ever would have done that,

SS: How did it go?

COG: I think fine. I think it worked out real well,

CG: Everything just went smooth as could be,

COG: I was teaching at Kendrick at the time. the third and fourth grades at Kendrick.I taught there for six years when I went up to substitute for the month. And so then when they consolidated I had the option of staying up there. The seventh and eighth grades stayed up there. No, the eighth grade was all. The seventh grade was down here. And so then, no the seventh grade was down here first. Janice was down here in the seventh grade first. Then we had the first seven grades here. Then I came down here and took the fourth grade separately. We had smaller rooms, I mean, one grade instead of the two that we had up there. And then they took the seventh grade up there finally.

CG: ...while I hauled mails.

COG: Yeah, he was going back and forth then to take the mails up there.

SS: You were a Juliaetta person teaching in Kendrick, you must have seen both sides of it,

COG: Yes. And there seemed to be no trouble. Up to that time, teachers were supposed to live in the town where they taught, It was just another practice that they expected you to live in the town where you taught, And you weren^t supposed to go out of town to buy anything. You were supposed to buy everything at the local stores. You were supposed to attend all the enters tainments and the town functions and everything in that town, Now teachers' gosh, half of our teachers live in Moscow and Lewiston and drive back and forth and you never see them. Unless you have a youngster in school you don't even know who the teachers are, And you shop where you want to and when you want to and if you don't want to go to church here you go to or church in Lewiston, you don't go at all, But then you were expected, dowhen in Rome do as the Romans Which is certainly changed a lot now.

SS: Was there a lot of cooperation between the churches in the two towns.

COG: No. Uh uh.

SS: They were separate congregations?

COG: Yes. Very much so.

SS: Where do you think that comes from,

COG: I don't know. People then, you lived in your own community. You didn't have cars. You didn't go to other places. Gee, if we went to Lewiston, it took us two days. We'd go by horse, you know, team to Lewiston, You stay over night and come back the next day, It was an event that you didn't do even once a year. And Kendrick was four miles away. We used to walk back and forth to.things or to go up and back and fotth.Walk, And or go on the train You could go up on the morning train and come back at noon. Or

CG: I used to go do business in that old Republic truck of mine,

COG: Yes. Take a whole bunch up to a show.

SS: Whose truck was it?

COG: Crate and Biddison, And a whole bunch would go in a truckload up to go to a show or something. And,but people stayed within their own community That was just natural.And that's what everybody did, It was quite an event to go to Lewiston or to go to Kendrick.

SS: When you say fight, did it usually come to blows?

CG: If they'd stand up to you, they did. If they didn't stand -up, why you was chicken. Us guys down here, we never backed down from nobody. We never took nothing.

SS: What about the guys in Kendrick, did they feel the same way about it?

COG: Oh, I think so.

CG: Have referees, used to play ball with referees, I never saw such a crooked bunch in my life!They used to catch all the time anybody.

SS: You'd see the pitches coming in. As a catcher you'd see where that pitch was coming in,

CG: Hell yes. We'd fight for a while and then we'd...

COG: Play ball a while.

CG: Cuss each other and for a while and then we'd play ball,

SS: Would Juliaetta play with towns besides Kendrick?

CG: Kellogg, Lewiston and Clarkston and us.

SS: You were in the same league? With the big cities?

CG: We were, we went to Lewiston one time,and played down there, we come out first in that. I think Kellogg got enough out of, I think 40 cents a piece, what they got out of it. We give all of our money to hire pitchers from Lapwai down here. We didn't get much out of it. We all chipped in and hired a pitcher from Lapwai.

COG: That was Art Tilden, wasn't it?

CG: No, he played with us.

COG: Art Tilden lived at Troy. Which one of the Indians was it that always played with you kids?

CG: Well old Larry Williams down here,

SS: Did Charlie White play with you?

COG: Yeah. Charlie White,

SS: He was supposed to be real good,

CG: When I started playing ball with; old Charlie White was playing with us when

COG: But that used to be our Sunday entertainment. Everybody would go and.

CG: We'd go home and play and after we got tired weM go home and play every where.

COG: In fact we were playing ball at Potlatch the afternoon the school burned,

CG: I got that day,

COG: The last ball pitched he got his finger broken,

CG: That was the day the school burned down,

COG: Yes, w were at Potlatch when the school burned, Came home and found the school had burned down. Yes that was a year or two after we were married.

SS: Did they let that building burn?

COG: Well they didn't do much...

CG: This house burnt up here when the shingle went(Mr, and Mrs. Gruell speak at the same time)

COG: And it was I guess, kind of windy and the shingles from that big old house, there was abig old two story house that burned, Noble's, Chuck Noble that has the store, it was his lived there then, And the shingles, it was a shinlged roof. And they got some of the records out but everybody thought that's one way to get anew school. And they didn't try,Course, they didn't have too much water after putting this house and using the water on that house, Getting around, they didn't have too much wateractually. And it went so fast. Old building and shingled roof, you know. Old wooden building, It didn't have much chance,

SS: When you played ball around the country, did man own people come and watch you play?

CG: Oh yes. Everybody came out to watch the ball game,

SS: Even if you played at Potlatch, a bunch of people, would go up?

COG: Yes.

CG: We went to Troy one time to play ball up there and they had that kid from Pullman was going to pitch andAwas scared to death. And then we did beat em„

COG: They used to have a pretty good team here, a ball team,

SS: What would it cost to hire a good pitcher?

CG: Oh, ten dollars,

SS: For the game?

CG: Yeah, we'd chip in ten dollars and weM hire a pticher, We had good pitchers ourselves, too.Our pitchers used to play in Troy, Art Tilden used to play for us from Troy. And Chuck Levitt, Fred Albright, We had good pitchers,

SS: Did you find that you were more likely to get in a fight in Kendrick than other towns?

CG: Oh yeah. We'd always have an

COG: And I think on the sidelines the rooters would do as much fighting as the players.

CG: But

COG: It was just a part of living I guess. Just the friendly spirit,

CG: a lot of fun too. We used to go to Colton, all around there, and we'd have a lot of fun. We'd have just a lot of fun,

SS: Would you stay in the town for the dance after the game,

CG: No.

COG: Usually it was always on Sunday afternoon that they would play as a rule, And most of them were working people. And draught

CG: We'd work all, that one time had that up and then

SS: Do it with no glove on?

CG: I had the glove on this hand but it was a wide ball and I caught it with, broke that finger here, stuck^straight up and then broke it all to pieces here.

COG: That used to be our Sunday entertainment for a good mahy years, When we were first married, and I guess before we were married. They played ball,

CG: set down on that little bush by third base ever, for years and years and years he setAthere8

COG: Ira Bollen,

SS: Sat up?

COG: Watching the games,

CG: Watch the games, set on a little thorn bush,

COG: That was his favorite place to watch. Ira Bollen was from Kendrick, wasn't he?

CG: Yeah, he was an umpire.

COG: He was always the crooked umpire,

SS: He was from Kendrick? Were these usually high scoring games?

CG: Oh no. We played Kendrick one time fourteen innings and we beat 'em 14 to nothing. stold from thlrd to homet

COG: Yeah, 14 inning game, YOu won one to nothing. I remember that game.I remember calling it in to the Tribune.

CG: Old Dammarell still there from Kendrick, He's never pitched a ballgame since, I don't think.

SS: What's his name?

CG: Ed Dammarell. He had his 50th wedding anniversary up here not long ago.

SS: He was the pitcher.

CG: He used to pitch for Kendrick.

COG: That was quite a game.

SS: Talking about prohibition, I heard this country missed out on quite ajbit of moonshine because a lot of it was going to Lewiston,

CG: There was plenty of moonshine around here too5

SS: That's another thing that seems to have been most every place, Did you ever here about some doctor that got pinched for moonshining in Kendrick in town?

CG: Not a doctor old bootleggers. Used to get it over here along Ahsahka, come through here,

SS: I heard Ahsahka was a big place for it,

CG: Used to run a still there and every night he'd run a spring around that quite a ways away from it.If that string was broke, he wouldnt go in. If it wasn't broken, he'd go in. Old Jim Lyce over here, he was a federal guy,

SS: Was he on the trail?

CG: Darn right. He was on the trail,

SS: Where did he live? Around here?

CG: Were.

SS: I always here about Summerfield,

CG: He was sheriff

0:00 - Looking for moonshine; becoming town cop during the Depression; hauling coal; and railroad accidents

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Segment Synopsis: Cecil: Draining a man's pond looking for moonshine. Deputy Jordan was always ready to fight prisoners. Becoming town cop and maintenance man during the depression for $50 a month. Hauling coal on his dray line. Fatal railroad accident at Arrow over a washed-out bridge.

10:00 - Being self-sufficient during the Depression; first washing machine; why they stayed in Juliaetta

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Segment Synopsis: Self-sufficiency and making-do in depression. First washing machine cost $35, on time. People stayed through hard times. A woman preferred to fetch her own husband than to have Mr. Gruell put him in jail. Why they stayed in Juliaetta.

16:00 - Decline of rain but good growing country; getting ice for both home and business; skating from Juliaetta to Kendrick

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Segment Synopsis: Decline of rain fall; good growing country. Cutting ice for the town businesses. Keeping ice at home. Refrigerated cars. Skating from Juliaetta to Kendrick.

22:00 - Decline of cherry market; selling culls to bootleggers; why cherry orchards were popular but they were vulnerable to rain

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Segment Synopsis: Decline of cherry market - sending cherries back, local people had to pay freight charges and lost money. Packing cherries and picking cherries. Selling culls to a Spokane bootlegger. Prevalence of cherry orchards. Pulling out orchards. Cherry crop was vulnerable to rain.

31:00 - Different seasons for different produce; social aspects of cannery work; working in the Juliaetta cannery; what her mother did for money

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Segment Synopsis: Seasons for produce. Lug boxes in different sizes for different produce. Sociability of working together; desirability of cannery work. Monotony of work. Processing tomatoes. Cannery injuries came from cuts. Most of women in Juliaetta who could get away from home worked in the cannery. Mothers and daughters often worked together, widows often worked. Her mother boarded teachers and did quilting to help support the family, although there was a scant return on quilting.

46:00 - Who worked in the cannery; Men ran machinery and paid by the hour; skill at coring tomatoes

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Segment Synopsis: Older people preferred cannery work to picking. Acceptance of wages. Men ran machinery and were paid by the hour, as were overseers. Variation in speed of workers. Skill of coring tomatoes.

51:00 - Town fires in Juliaetta; Different types of stores in Juliaetta; Not a lot of contact with Native Americans

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Segment Synopsis: Town fires thought to have been set for insurance money. Alexander's was a popular store; Miles and Needham store. Not a lot of contact with Indians in Juliaetta

61:00 - Fear of shoemaker named Muzick

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Segment Synopsis: Her fear of the old shoemaker, an Austrian named Muzick, as a child (continued)

62:00 - The old shoemaker Muzick

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Segment Synopsis: The old shoemaker.

64:00 - Local events celebrated at home and away; Loss of town park to sawmill

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Segment Synopsis: Children's Day maypole at home in the yard. Chautauqua and Fourth of July. Loss of town park to sawmill.

69:00 - Discussion of different churches and their locations in Juliaetta as well as revivals and who came to them

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Segment Synopsis: Churches in Juliaetta - there have been too many. Change of congregations. Methodist Church was a "dugout" before building was completed; Methodist church became community church. Church membership influenced by friends. Strength of Lutheran Church. Revivals were highly emotional experiences, but their lasting effects may not have been great. Children went to revivals with their parents; they were religious rather than social events. Indians came to Methodist meetings.

82:00 - Mother's opposition to playing cards; Porter school of Art for painting lessons; Adams house burning a ton of coal a month

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Segment Synopsis: Mother's opposition to playing cards, but not game cards. Porter School of Art was composed of local students who went to Mrs. R.H. Porter's house for painting lessons. Adams' house burnt a ton of coal a month in winter; his wheat.

89:00 - Why she chose teaching rather than nursing; Teaching during the war; not teaching in one's own neighborhood

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Segment Synopsis: Choosing teaching rather than nursing because of a foot injury. Training for a life certificate at Lewiston Normal. She had to quit teaching when she married, and started again during the war. Teachers often not allowed to teach in their own neighborhood because they knew other children so well.

95:00 - Teacher training at Lewiston Normal; Teaching experiences; Discipline problems with children today

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Segment Synopsis: Nine weeks session of supervised teacher training for all elementary teachers from Lewiston Normal was very demanding. Teaching experience. Preparation for eighth grade exams: memorization and drilling. Discipline problems with school children today

110:00 - Dating activities and the rivalry between Juliaetta and Kendrick; Opposition to school consolidation; isolation of individual communities

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Segment Synopsis: Dating activities. Rivalry between Juliaetta and Kendrick - fighting among the youth. Opposition to school consolidation, although it went smoothly. Teachers were expected to live in the town where they taught. Little cooperation between church congregations in the two towns; isolation of individual communities.

1117:00 - Sports in Juliaetta and hiring pitchers; burning of Juliaetta school; how Ahsahka moonshiner marked his still

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Segment Synopsis: Fighting and ball playing. Hiring pitchers. Burning of Juliaetta school. Team fans were loyal and fought too. Ball playing was Sunday afternoon entertainment. Beating Kendrick 1-0 in 14 innings. Moonshine. Ahsahka moonshiner who drew a string around his still.

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