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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: October 07, 1976 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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This conversation with GERALD INGLE took place at the Latah County Courthouse on October 7, 1976. The interviewer is SAM SCHRAGER.

GERALD INGLE: During the Depression, it made it pretty rough.

SAM SCHRAGER: Really? Really it was?

GI: My dad was president of the bank, when the bank closed.

SS: You grew up on a farm, right? On Big Bear. Your parents had been here considerably early, hadn't they?

GI: Yeah, the place that I grew up on was my grandfather's old homestead. Then when my father took over the farm my grandfather built another house on another piece of land, so we still have that place. In fact, I own that place now, the old homestead.

SS: What do you remember the farming being like when you were still just a kid? Was it still early pioneering pretty much or had it passed that stage.

GI: we a lot of land there after I was a kid and helping, and of course in those days we used horses. I think in 1923 or '24 was when we bout our first tractor, farmed with horses up till then.

SS: Were the kids expected to do a lot of that work, a lot of the breaking?

GI: Well, we helped to pile brush and cut brush and stuff like that. We did some of that after Iwas big enough

SS: If you tried to characterize the condition of the average farmer when you were still pretty young, you were born in '10, so figure out between the teens and in the '20's. How were they doing?

GI: They were pretty hard up, really. the country had a lot more people in it, a lot of people justA160 acres of land, some had a little more and some had smaller places. They milked cows and sold cream and sold eggs and sold butter those days. They didn't have creameries so much then they churned the cream into butter and sold butter. And that was how they paid their store bills for the food bill

SS: Was that their main source of money?

GI: Their main source was their crop, but as far as the household needs in the kitchen and put the food on the table a lot of that came from the- the things they bought in the grocery store- the things they bought in the grocery store- the sale of butter and eggs and so forth.

SS: They traded at Kendrick?

GI: Right. In that area, yes.

SS: Would they go mostly to Long's store, or were there other stores?

GI: There was Long's store and there was Stanton's store and there was store. There was the three stores when I was a kid. The Long's store was there where Erickson's is and Stanton's store was there where the drugstore is and store was where hardware is.

SS: How often would your family make it into Kendrick?

GI: Oh, I think probably once a week or so, probably.

SS: How far is it?

GI: Nine miles from town. See, my dad bought his first car in 1914, so I was only four years old when they bought the car. It used to be back years ago when I remember? most of the farmers went to town on Saturday afternoons. Took the day off and did their trading, Would that be just the man of the family or would their wife go? Some of 'em would take their wi?e? Later on they did more. Probably earlier there was just the man and maybe take the kids or one of the kids along with them to town. ^1 used to go to town with my dad by myself with him, and maybe my brother the next time, took our turns. It was quite a treat getting to go to

SS: What would you do'.when you would go, in town, as a kid?

GI: I'd just gawk, as I remember now. And I remember one time I went down, the first time I ever drank soda pop. Got me a bottle of lemon pop, and I thought that was really something!

SS: Did he do much visiting with other guys?

GI: Oh, yes. He was on the board of directors of the Cooperative Ware house, Kendrick Roachdale Company, that's the oldest, one of the oldest co-operatives in the county.

SS: The Kendrick-?

GI: Roachdale. It's still there. He was on that board of directors for thirty, forty years, I guess J I don't know, more than that I guess.

SS: Was it a farmer owned co-op?

Yes. Farmer owned co-op. The co-ops they have nowdays, they each far mer had to put up for $100 stock, and of course now the laws are a little different, I guess. Of course, they could do business with anybody but these stockholders got to receive dividends from the bus iness returns

SS: 1 wonder how broad the ownership was, how many people had put in $100.

GI: 0h don't know. I've seen that old stockholders list, there must have been seventy-five hundred people. At that time, I'd say there were a lot more people in the rural area, smaller farms. It was a pretty good size and he was on that board of directors. He to go down once a month for the meeting of the board of directors of the Kendrick Roachdale Company.

SS: Did that come out of the farmers union?

GI: remember they used to have the Farmers' Union, too. Probably origmally it first started that. I remember Dad used to have a big Farmers' Union sign on the ' there when I was a kid. I don't know whether there was a connection with that, but I just imagine it was sort of an offshot of that co-operative deal.

SS: Do you know what your father's attitudes were about bettering the position of the farmer in a political sense?

GI: I always felt Dad was pretty interested in developing the country and a real good attitude about developing. He used to get pretty irked about some of thefpeople that held back on things. He liked to see good schools and he liked to see good roads. And I remember several times when he had gone to Boise with different people to try to get 'em to fix a certain road or to get the state to fix a certain road. He pretty much liked to see developments made. That's probably what rubs off on me over here being in public service.

SS: Do you have much idea of how he got- became disposed towards public service. It seems like a lot of farmers didn't get out beyond their own place in terms of their civic interests. What gave him that in clination?

GI: He was working in this grain/co-operative over there and he was also a director in a bank there for several years, too and he worked with people all the time. I know he was on the school board, too when I was in school. And we used to have a local telephone company and he was always an officer in our local telephone company. That was esta blished about 1908 or '09, and he was chairman of that a lot and sec retary a lot. I think he just sort of grew up with it, he sort of liked to work with people, too. And he got to be county commissioner at one time, too, in his life. That was in '42 and '43, his was only one term.

SS: Wonder where King, the nickname King came from.

GI: King came from- that was his name; King David Ingle. His dad's brother was named King Ingle, too.

SS: That was his first name.

GI: King David Ingle. His uncle's name was the same. I think farther up the ladder there was somebody named King.

SS: How hard do you feel that he worked?

GI: He worked hard. Dad really worked hard. We were a little bigger farmers than most of them when I was a kid. We had probably 400, 350- 400 acres, and we always had hired men when I was a kid and al ways had a hired girl to help in the house when us kids growing up.

SS: Year around.

GI: Well, in the summer. Sometimes in the winter we wouldn't have. We had cattle, some cattle, beef cattle and milk cows, too and sometimes we'd have a hired man in the winter, but almost always they'd start generally in the spring, go to say, November or December sometimes.

SS: Of 300 or 400 acres, how much of that were you farming? Would that be most of that?

GI: 0h, I could figure about- I suppose it was actually- it was over 300 acres of farmland; 350 probably.

SS: And did you own all that land, or did you rent?

GI: Well, he rented part of it and some of it he owned and part of it was my grandfather's land. See, my grandfather never died till 1934- I think it was '34 or '35- '34, I believe it was, and he lived only half a mile from us and Grandfather had 320 acres of this land that we far med. That wasn't all cultivated, but there was two quarters. And then my dad ownedN80 acres adjoining there and my aunt- and these two pieces were part of the old estate my dad's sister had an 80 acresand we farmed those two eighties. That was originally part of my grand father's acreage.

SS: So it was pretty much all family owned?

GI: That's right.

SS: Even if he didn't own it himself.

GI: That's right.

SS: Did he need bigger equipment than most of the farmers at the time?

GI: I don't know whether he had bigger equipment, I guess more people and more pieces; twobottom gangplow was a big plow in those days in that area. Two of 'em, see, and take six horses to pull 'em. And lots of times, with the gangplow and oneLfootburner. walking plow with three horses on it. I started on one of those when I was ten years old. I was pretty good size for my age. I remember having the gangplow ahead and the footburner behind. Did you work the whole day on the footburner? Oh, yes, after I got up to twelve or thirteen years old. I remember the first time I ever rttn one I was ten years old and I plowed the garden, and I wanted to run that. I wanted to drive that team of horses and run that plow so Dad let me plow a few rounds and then he just went off and let me finish it. I got a little tired be fore I got done, but after I was up twelve, thirteen years old I ran it all the time. Then I got so I ran the gangplow. In those days we bound, and Dad didn't like to run a binder very well, so as soon as I was big enough, I imagine when I was thirteen, fourteen I started running a binder for harvest, and my brother shocked. He was a littie younger. I remember one year there before I startedA . the bin der; us kids were pretty small and my dad's brother, Dwight Ingle, he lived with my grandfather, Dad had us three boys shocking. Some of the shocks- a lot of 'em fell down, but we used to have to shock the grain, you know. And then a year or two after that I started run ning the binder and then my brother did the shocking.

SS: 1 have heard that in the early days that with all the work the kids had to do on a place really got in the way of their going to school. SS

GI: I mean, they would layout quite abit, in the early days. But by the time you were growing up did that conflict with your going to school?

GI: No, not in our home. It did with some families, but my dad thought education^important and we had to milk cows before we went to school and do chores. We had to feed the hogs. Generally there was four of us in our family and each one of us had a job to do and that had to be done before we went to school.

SS: But he didn't believe in having to lay out? Once in a while, like take in the fall, if we had a wet fall and were threshing grain and we used to have the company threshing machines come and thresh, once in a while then if it was a late fall and short GI

SS: of labor, trying to get things done fast, maybe we'd stay out a day or two we had the threshers, but as far as my dad was concerned, he believed in us being in school every day. AMost of the time when I went to school, I had a perfect attendance record. Where did you go? Was there a school on the Ridge?

GI: Yeah, we had a little local school. It was school. It was built in 19- 1892, and that was one of the first schools on the Ridge. There were five schools at that time on the Ridge, but ours was the central school, it was in the center of the Ridge and it was actually the biggest school of the five.

SS: How many kids when you were going there?

GI: 1 think the maximum amount at any time was thirty-five. I remember the year I started to school in the first grade there was twenty-eight that year and then a year or so after there were thirty-five. I think it ran between twenty-five to thirty-five. They might have had a few more once in a while.

SS: Did you go clear through the eighth?

GI: Yes. Ss: What do you think of how good learning you got in school?

GI: It was amazing. "These school districts were poor and most of the teachers they had were people who had gone to their first year or half a year or something. Lot of them came from Lewiston Normal. Some of them- once in a while we had one just went to summer school and took examination to get thejcertificate and some of 'em one year and some of 'em two years. Think a lot of 'em it was their first school and they didn't get too good a pay. But I think it is amazing that a kid could learn as much as they did, and I think one reason why they did, the whole eight grades and a recitation bench up in front, you know, and you listened to the other classes all the way through clear to the eighth grade and you couldn't help but listen.

SS: It's really get drilled into you.

GI: I think probably that was one reason why some of the oneroom schools were so successful, I think^because of it. AHearing this over and over all these years going through the grade school.

SS: When you were a little kid going to school there, do you remember there being any real big kids that hadn't had much learning?

GI: I remember three boys that were in the eighth grade and they were six foot tall, great big guys and they used to really give us little kids the devil. I don't think they ever did finish the eighth grade, but they had to go to - their parents would send them til one would get through the eighth grade, so these big guys like that— that was the year I went to school, they would work in the fall and then come and go to school in the winter and then/quit in the spring. So they actually never did- but their folks kept wanting them to get past that eighth grade examination. And boy, they were mean to us little kids sometimes.

SS: Sounds like they weren't if they were big, picking on little kids.

GI: They were kids. I remember one time one of 'em Aung me up in a sack behind a horse out in the barn. A lot of the kids rode horse back because they had to come quite a ways to school and they had a barn there by the schoolhouse where they'd keep their horses. I never will forget that I guess. I was scared to beat the band. S: He Juing you in a sack—

GI: A gunny sack- hung me there for a little while back behind a horse. They had a lot of fun but I was so scared, but they didn't leave me there long.

SS: How old were these kids? Maybe about eighteen?

GI: I imagine, seventeen or eighteen.

SS: It must be kind of embarrassing to them too- you know, they shouldn't have been in school anymore.

GI: Oh, it was sort of bad for them because actually they were bigger than the teacher and she had quite a time with those boys sometimes.

SS: Did she have trouble with disclipine and order-

GI: With those older ones. Some of those gals that taught, she could straighten 'em out, I mean, these bigger kids. I think those big kids, as I remember, those three boys I first spoke of whenl was in the first grade were the three biggest because eventually I got to be one of those big boy, when I got to be in the eighth grade, I guess.

SS: Did your mother not teach during that whole time that she was there?

GI: No, she quit teaching when she got married, when she married Dad. She had taught three other schools on this Ridge prior to her marrying my dad. She was a schoolteacher so she saw that we studied our lessons We had to study every night at home after we got our chores done and our supper eaten.

SS: So, she met your father while she was teaching? Did she know him—?

GI: She met him while she was teaching. She lived on Little Bear Ridge across the canyon from Big Bear. And I don't think he really knew her until she came over there teaching. He might have known who she was. Her name was and they lived on the point of Little Bear Ridge, but he never really knew her until she- never went with her or anything till she got to teaching over there. I did ask you if your father worked hard- I should ask you how hard you think she worked. SS

GI: She worked hard. She always canned fruit and we always had a big job garden. That was one of us boys was hoeing the garden. I remember this. This was sort of an incident about my brother. We used to have to heo in the garden and he'd do something and she'd kick him out of the garden. And one day it rained a little bit and Dad was out with us boys hoeing the garden. First thing my brother did was chop off a stock of corn and he bawled him out and said if he did that again he'd sure give him a good tanning. He said, " you going to kick me out of the garden?" Says, "That's what Mom does when I do something like that." But she worked hard, she made butter from the cream that we got from the cows and did lots of canning and she was a pretty good seamstress. She made clothes for us, too. My sisters, she always made all their dresses and so forth. She was a very good seamstress.

SS: Did she ever go back to teaching?

GI: No. She was called in a few times, you know to substitute but she never went back to teaching. She always wanted to but she always had plenty of work to do at home.

SS: Wasn't that pretty much the pattern of young women in those days? They'd teach and then they'd marry and then that was it.

GI: That was it, yeah. Very few of 'em went back to school. Some of 'em would after their family was grown or something, maybe. But generally they stayed home and took care of the- ran the household and took care of the family. Seemed to be the pattern in those days.

SS: For you to get to school in Kendrick; was that a hardship? After you got out of the eighth grade?

GI: After I got out of the eighth grade; first year I rode horseback to Kendrick in the fall and then in the spring when the weather was good and then in the wintertime S stayed in town. Then the second year I was big enough- I was fourteen or so—fstarted driving a car. Drove a car in the fall and spring. I drove down that old grade and up it when it was put it in low gear and stayAin low gear all the way till you got to the top. Three mile grade coming up. But I guess, pcobably- I did it a little bit when I was a freshman in high school but when the weather got rainy and slick, then I rode horseback. Then after that first year we never did ride horseback again, we always drove in the fall and then we stayed in town in the wintertime.

SS: Was that a second car?

GI: No, that was the family car. It was an old 1920 Dodge. (Chuckles)

SS: Was that grade ever dangerous- real dangerous to be on? I've driven it now, I've wondered in the wintertime-

GI: You haven't driven that old grade.

SS: No, I drive the one off of Little Bear Ridge to Kendrick.

GI: This one was on the other side and it was dangerous. I guess you can get up and down^now because some people live part way up on it, but it was really a dangerous grade. Now, you take a dangerous grade then- you had to be used to driving on it. Once in a while there was a turnout where you could see somebody coming, you'd have to wait to pass. People that drove it all-time were pretty good about thatthey see somebody coming and they were close to the turnout, they'd wait or vice versa. Sometimes you'd have to back up, but it was a pretty dangerous grade, really. You'd look right straight down in the canyon.

SS: In the winter,say, how did you handle it when there was snow on top and nothing down in Kendrick? You couldn't really take a sled down there in the early days all the way if there was no snow in Kendrick.

GI: No, it was pretty rough. Seems like we used to have more snow then, and there was another grade on the other side , called the Pine Creek grade that they go down in the winter and they'd leave their sled at the bottom of the grade and go to town.

SS: Walk in?

GI: Yeah, or take one of the horses and ride in. But lots of times used a buggy and they'd get the road broke and they'd use a buggy on top, cut the tracks, if they couldn't get to town with a sled. When I was in high school lots of times we didn't think anything about when Fri day night when school was out,alk home. It would kill kids now to walk that eight or nine miles! It was about eight miles or eight and a half-miles, I guess, home. Lots of times we'd walk down Sunday night. And we didn't think anything about that then.

SS: You never stayed in town except in the winter?

GI: Wintertime was all.

SS: Walking nine miles, it took quite a while.

GI: We used to walk to the top of the grade and we'd take a shortcut- We'd run down the grade, we d make it in an hour and twenty minutes, probably. (Chuckles) Sometimes the folks would take us to the top of the grade and there was two shortcuts on the grade where we could not follow the road and go straight down the hill and we'd take the shortcuts but coming back up, when we'd walk home, the shortcuts were steeper, we couldn't go too fast.

SS: What about the transition for you from the country school to the Ken drick school? Was it a big change?

GI: Yes, it was. It didn't take me too long to get oriented, but it was quite a change at first. You was used to the small group and so forth. I sure felt like a big pebble in a lake but it didn t take me long to get oriented.

SS: I've heard people talk about how getting into a town and mixing with the town kids, they really feel backwards at first, because the town kids are a little more slick. The big difference seemed to be in Moscow and the people out of town. Did you feel that?

GI: I felt that at first, but, I don't know, I was pretty easy to make friends and I got along real good with the town kids. They ^ed to call us country jerks and that kind of stuff, but it didn't take long. With Kendrick there was so many of them that came in from the rural areas, too, anyway, so there was a lot of country kids, so actually, I imagine the percent was probably 50-50 so it didn't take very long to get to knowing each other and working together.

SS: When you were in high school, was it mostly just studies or was there a lot of, what today seems to be so big in high school, sports and extracurricular activities.

GI: Well, we had- Basically, the main thing was studies. We had basketball and baseball and we never had football in Kendrick until the year after I went out; got out of high school. I graduated in the spring of '28 and they never started football until that fall, but we had baseball and basketball. I played basketball, I wasn't much for baseball, but I was on the basketball team for three years, I guess when I was in high school.

SS: Was there a lot of socializing between the boys and the girls when you were growing up? Must opportunity for it?

GI: Well, we- quite a little, I guess, called it. We used to have in our local community up there, every winter, we used to have what they called Literary Society. And every Saturday night or every other Saturday night certain groups would be in charge of putting on a pro gram for that evening and then they'd have their eats and stuff af terwards, and then used to have these old basket suppers. Auction off boxes and pie suppers, auction off pies and stuff like that to money for different things in the community. Then we always had I remember, we always had a big deal at Christmastime. Used to have what they called UB church, was just a little ways, United Brethern Church, from the schoolhouse. All the schools would go to gether and put on the Christmas porgram. And they would go around the community and collect money to buy treats, so everybody got a sack of candy. And every school would be in charge of putting on a part of the program. Have some dialogues and have some speeches and so forth, and it was really quite a festive occasion, that Christmasthe old community Christmas tree.

SS: When you had like these literaries and that kind of stuff, did you have dances after them?

GI: Dancing was taboo. We could play Skip-to-my-Lou and that kind of stuff, but dancing, that was sort of bad for some of 'em, so they could play games, you know.

SS: Was it a divided opinion at the time, some were for it and some not?

GI: Oh, yeah. And so they just generally just compromised.

SS: So you played these dancing and singing games? Party games?

GI: Party games. I used to think it sort of funny, they could play Skip-to-my-Lou, but they couldn't dance! But later on, in the early '20's they built a community hall there and they used to have public dances over there. And then after they got that hall they used to have their Christmas tree in the community hall. It's still standing there, in fact, it's on one of the places I.

SS: That hall got a pretty good sized draw, too. Heard people from Bovill say they went over there.

GI: Oh, yeah, those public dances, they used to come from all over. They used to have some real whingdings there.

SS: That's what I heard. (Chuckles)

GI: My folks wouldn't let me go to the dances. We could go to other things over there. But my dad, he was sort of against dancing. I never got to until I to Then I took dancing lessons and started dancing, but he was real strict about dancing. And he was sort of strict about cards. When we were younger, we couldn't play even pino chle or something, but anyway after we got up in high school, we played anyway and he accepted it. But he " that dancing and cards and drinking and all that kind of stuff ran together.

SS: Do you think for him that that was a religious belief, or was it more just morals?

GI: Well, religious and moral, I suppose. His mother was real strict, I guess and she died when he was a teenager, and I guess she left quite an impression on him. He was just that way. pother was a lot more broadminded about it, but he was pretty strict.

SS: So, he never had a drink?

GI: He never drank at all. He was a teetotler.

SS: He must have been for Prohibition, when it came in.

GI: Oh, yeah. He wasn't one of the real rabid ones who would go out and preach it. But if you was with him and wanted a drink, he'd let you drink, but he just didn't do it himself.

SS: I heard that the dancehall on the Ridge when it came in caused some conflict with the people who were really against dancing.

GI: Yes, it did and still, on the other hand, they actually got so they had Sunday School in that community hall part of the time. They had Sunday School next morning after they had a dance there on Saturday night. So each group learned to live with it. And it was pretty fun ny in the local community as I look back, they'd fight like cats and dogs if somebody'd have bad luck or out or something of trouble then all the neighbors would come in and help. Forget all their petty peeves and work for each other. And when they built this com munity hall it was a donation of labor and every body helped. I know my dad helped work on it, too. I guess he sort of had the attitude, if the people wanted to do that, it was alright, but he just didn't do it himself and he didn't like his family to be doing some of those things, like drinking and dancing.

SS: Would you say that it was pretty much divided into two groups, those that accepted drinking and dancing and those that were against it? Is that pretty much the way it was

GI: I guess it was, but still-

SS: It is common in a small community.

GI: Yes, I imagine so. I guess it was. Some of these people that drank and tore around would come to church Sunday, too. It wasn't Straight down the line.

SS: I imagine there were some people that believed in dancing and not in drinking,

GI: Yeah, you're right.

SS: What about the community church, did most of the people from the area go to that church?

GI: Well, they had two churches. The one on the other end of the Ridge was the Lutheran. Most of the people at one time lived on the lower end of the Ridge were Lutherans and they had their Bethany Lutheran Church and then I think most of the rest of the people, even they did belong to other denominations would come to church there and take part in Sunday School, because it was a church. Later on that church was- The United Brether n wanted to sell it, it sort of died out and they couldn't furnish the minister therf. grandfather and my dad and my uncle bought the building and my grandfather donated the land and so the community tore it down and built the church they have there by the cemetery from the old lumber, of course, with some new, but bas ically the building was built with the timbers and stuff from church.

SS: And now it's a community church?

GI: Yeah, it's not used very much. Once in a while they have funerals, once in a while they have a service there, but there's not near the people there used to be here. Used to have quite a group come. Used to have regular revival meetings and that type of thing there. Well, I guess they did after they first built the church, but the old church used to have quite a lot of that, and they had some of that after the new church was built. That was moved there in the '30's.

SS: Would the revivals last very long?

GI: Oh, they'd have two weeks.

SS: Were they well attended?

GI: pretty well. I remember we used to go. When we was kids we used to walk down to that church. It was a little over a mile from our place 4~o the old church, and we used to walk to church every night in the win tertime.

SS: What do you remember what the actual revival itself was like? Was the preaching pretty strong?

GI: Well, as I remember it was, seemed like. Yeah, I think it was pret ty sincere and strong. Affected some people, I guess.

SS: Because I've heard that the way it affected a lot of people was very emotional.

GI: They still have that, you have your emotional groups, too, I mean some churches are a lot more emotional than others, butA had the whole bunch. There was some of 'em that were affected a lot more than others. Then we used to have the^church parties, too. That was part of the community deal sometimes, too.

SS: What kind of parties?

GI: Oh, that'd just be a church dinner or something. We call 'em bazaars now, stuff like that. Get together and maybe on a Sunday have a church dinner, something like that.

SS: Were most of the people expected to go to church on Sunday?

GI: It seemen.to me like the biggest part of 'em at that time went to church sometime. But we had pretty good attendance, as I remember as a kid.

SS: Maybe not every Sunday though. What about working on Sunday? Were there a lot of people that wouldn't do any work on Sunday?

GI: Oh, yeah. There was a lot of people who wouldn't do anything on Sun day. Even people that didn't go to church, wouldn't work on Sunday. There was a few that worked on Sunday. That was one thing that my dad always said, "There was one day for rest." And we never did work in the field on Sunday around our home. Of course, we had the chores and stuff like that to do, but going out and actually doing work-in the field, we never did do that. He always said we'd have one day off.

SS: Was it a visiting day for you?

GI: Yeah, used to go visit the neighbors and we used to have family pic nics in the summertime. It was a day that either you had company or went someplace and was company for somebody else. Seemtf like a lot more of that than there is now.

SS: When you say family picnic, that makes me wonder, too; when you so cialized then was it mostly with the family?

GI: Big part of it. My uncles lived there and my grandmother was there and my dad's sister married Amos Moore and they had a family and they lived close there and we visitA back and forth among ourselves, but still on the other hand, too, some of the neighbors, we'd be in vited there for dinner on Sunday or go someplace else on Sunday. But I imagine that nearly half of it was among the family itself, or rela tives. We had some relatives lived in Moscow and some lived at Col fax and then after we got using automobiles we used to visit with them on Sundays and they'd visit us. A big part of it was family.

SS: All these relatives; had more than one family come here originally that was related?

GI: See, my grandfather came here- when he came he brought his hired man with him and his hired man homesteaded the same as he did, and that family grew up being pretty close. And then my aunt married one of the neighbor boys when she was pretty young. She was about ten or twelve when she came here and I guess she got married when she was sixteen, so that stErted in with another family, so it didn't take long. And then my Grandmother Ingle's brother lived in- had three brothers lived in Colfax and^another brother lived- no, cousin- A brother lived at Colfax and then the cousins- there were three of 'em lived at Colfax and one lived in Deary and one of 'em lived on the upper end of the ridge. And that came about^ my Grandmother Ingle's side. We had those relatives to visit with and they had families too.

SS: Your grandfather; where did he come from?

GI: He came from originally Tennessee and then he went to Illinois and he was in Illinois when he actually came to Idaho. He came out, I guess, in the fall of 1883. I think it was '83. At that time they had the railroad built as far as Colfax. And they rented a car on the rail road and piled all their belongings on one end and the family lived in one end of it while they moved out on the railroad. The story that I always heard him say that he and his hired man was with him, he came at the same time, brought his family with him. He had a wife and some children and grandfather had three or four children at that time. Some say he - they rented horses and rode over there and found this land where we are and others said he rented a buggy, so I don't know which he did, but anyway, he got from Colfax over there and they settled0on Big Bear Ridge.

SS: And he was a homesteader? Nobody else had been on the place?

GI: No. Well, first he had a right for a preemption and he went on the preemption first and then this place that he homesteaded, somebody had squatted on it and then gave it up so then he- it was open, so my grandfather filed a homestead on it.

SS: Do you think he did it that way because he still wanted to have his right to homestead?

GI: Probably. I don't know what the deal was.

SS: Did he get the preemption too?

GI: Yes. Proved up on both of them. Then my uncle, the oldest one of the family, there was a piece of land just north of grandfather's preemption that hadn't been taken when he got of age, so he home steaded that. My cousin has that place and the one that my grandfather s old preemption. He it now.

SS: Did you ever hear from him why he left Tennessee?

GI: Yes. He had asthma awful bad. And I guess he just had an awful time. And somebody told him if he'd go West he wouldn't have it, so he just bundled his family up and decided to try it. I remember him saying he never had asthma all his life after he got out here. Remember him saying as soon as he came over the mountains he started to breathe. And I think that was one of the things that brought him out here.

SS: Do you have an idea of about how old he was when he came West?

GI: Well, I could figure it out. He was eighty-four years old when he died and he died in 1934.

SS: So, he would have been about thirty-two. You said he came in '82?

GI: '83. he was a reasonably young man.

SS: Did he talk to you at all about what those early pioneer conditions were?

GI: Oh, yes. After he moved down to this other place; they built a house and he moved down there and he had his garden and he us ed to have us boys help put his wood in and he'd come up to the place everyday. He'd walk across the field up to our house. He visited with me a lot. Us kids, I mean. He used to sit and talk with us. It was really interesting some of the things.

SS: How hard did he make it out to be when it was just-\hese first settlers?

GI: Pretty rough. I remember him saying the first year when he came here in the fall and I guess it was '83, and they didn't have much to eat and the neighbors had lots of rutabagas and they killed a bear, and he said they lived on rutabagas and bear meat, of co urse, they got a deer I guess too ne said it was a pretty tough winter. I guess they completely ran out of groceries early in the spring and still had a lot of snow. There was one trip they fixed up an old bobsled; took the front runners off of the bobsled and put a team on it, put a box on it, just had one set of runners and c to Moscow so they could get some groceries. That was the nearest place they had to come to get groceries. Took 'em two days, to come to Moscow.. Anyway, when he first came they used to, every fall, after they got established, they'd bring the team and wagon and try to leave early in the morning and get to Moscow and get their winter's supply. And they used to try to get out of here in time to get their buying done that day and that night they'd hitch up and go out to what's called Corwall out here and there was a family name of Hobart that lived out there that were real good friends and they'd always go out there and camp the rest of that night and then drive back home the n ext day. I've heard him talk about that several times; how they used to visit with old Sam Hobart.

SS: Did they camp out? Outside of the house?

GI: Yes. I guess he'd take as many of 'em inside as he could. But that was the stopping place for the people.

SS: Well, this kind of deal was just in the fall?

GI: Well, that was the fall deal.^ They always made that one trip to town. Sometimes they got so they made two trips to Moscow a year, but that was the big one but that was in the fall to get their winter supplies. They'd get everything fixed up and they had their food canned from garden and their potatoes dug in the cellar and they were just about holed up for the winter, the way he used to tell it.

SS: I've often wondered about how much turnover there was among these real earliest pioneers, because they say what happened a lot of places that you read about, is that there was a lot of turnover. And maybe one in ten actually wound up staying. And yet most people seemed to - those people that stayed seemed to remember it as a lot more stable. And I just wondered,

GI: I think that maybe the population was pretty stable there for several years, because there's two of us old families that's still out there now. The Moreys; Mrs. Cecil Chamberlin was one of the Moreys; their place joined ours. And their father came and homesteaded a year or two or three before my father homesteaded there. I think there was quite a few of 'em stayed, maybe when you look back there wasn't too big a percent, but I imagine 50-60% of 'em stayed several years, just from listening to my father and grandfather talking.

SS: I was thinking that maybe some of these real early people, say like the guy that wassquatting on this place, it might have been a lot of people like that right at the very beginning, that they were the ones that turnedpver.

GI: Of course, that probably made a lot of turnover. I think he just came there and he put up a shack and he was going to homestead on it, prove up on it, and he just decided it was too hard so then he pulls out and my grandfather it up, and I think there were several places like that. Maybe that caused a lot of the moving, people would decide it was going to be too hard a deal and leave.

SS: In the winters, when you were a kid, did things get really slow? Was there a lot of time that your parents couldn't be that busy? Or were they really busy in the winter, too?

GI: Well, they always had livestock that they had to take care of. Dad used to raise hogs and he used to have quite a few of 'em, and later when I was a kid they had these Potlatch Forest lumbercamps; one just south of Deary and they weren't too far off and he used to butcher hogs in the wintertime and deliver butchered hogs to these lumbercamps. So he kept pretty busy. Of course, it not have been that way with some of the families, but I remember he used to do lots of butchering in the wintertime. He used to butcher every two weeks, probably. Whenever you butchered in those days, the neighbors all came in and help you butcher and you'd go help them butcher. I remember he used to butcher several hogs.

SS: Do you think the pace was about the same as the rest of the year, or would you say it would be more leisurely? I think they didn't near as fast as we do. They kept busy and they made wood; some of 'em made wood in the winter and some of 'em made posts. And they had their winter jobs that they did in the win ter. I don't think they hit it quite as hard as we do now.

SS: Did he do a lot of repair work in the winter then?

GI: Some. They didn't have shops on farms^like they do now. And it wasn t too much to fix up a gangplow or a harrow drawbar and stuff like that. It didn't take very long to do the repair on machinery. Of course, the binders, when they got those, there was repair, but a binder's small compared to a combine.

SS: Was there much concern in your family; was he very concerned about the prospects of being able to make good on the place? I'm wondering how close to the bone it was. Like I've heard after the First World War there was a pretty bad falling off in prices and things were pret ty tough.

GI: Well, it was pretty rough. There during the Depression and three of us kids in college and he'd gotten up and he'd been on this bankA directors and he got to be president of the bank and the bank closed and I think he only had $75 to his name. And that was pretty tough going, I tell you. And I quit school that year the last sememster and went home and we lined up all the beef cows we could and milk cows and at that time we had a creamery, cream station, in Kendrick and sold cream; and it was pretty rough times then. But he always knew it was going to be better someday. I always remember my uncle, he aways said, "Oh, the country's going to the devil." "Look here Amy." And Dad would say, "It's not that bad"! And Dad always figured it was going to get better.

SS: What did you call him?

GI: His name was Amos,.that was his brother-in-law and he called him Amy.

SS: Probably never did convince him, though.

GI: No.

SS: What was it that did happen in the bank? What kind of situation was it that developed?

GI: What happened was when this depression came and people got scared and they started drawing their money out and the banks had loans on it; had the money loaned out and they couldn't liquidate fast enough to pay off the depositors. That's what closed the banks in the depres sion then. If they'd have just left their money in the bank and stayed with them, wouldn't have any trouble, but you can see what happens; you got a loan out here say that's due in six months and the guy comes in and wants his money and you can't liquidate and that guy can't dig up the money right now, so that's what happens to the bank. People just pulling their savings out of the banks, afraid the bank's going to go broke. It's like in the Depression; it got to be a chain thing. One bank goes broke and everybody rushed into the next bank and other banks and start drawing their money out.

SS: Which bank was this?

GI: Kendrick State Bank.

SS: Did it close down before the bank holiday? Was it before Roosevelt got in?

GI: Yeah. They opened it again later on and then the two banks went to gether and made one bank. But it closed about a month before that bank holiday.

SS: What were the losses at the point that it closed?

GI: Well, actually, it came out pretty good. Of course it had to be liquidated, but they liquidated out nearly 100%. They had good paper, good mortgage and good notes and stuff like that, it was just the thing that you just can't liquidate^fast enough when the people draw their money out. It took over a period of years, but they pretty well liquidated out.

SS: Does that mean that people that owed money paid it back?

GI: Right. They way they got it started again, they got some of the large stockholders that had, they called it big money then, $7,000, $8,000 to go in and put their money as stock, and they got the thing to going again that way. And thesexstockholders they came out all right. The people that did that they came out real good, because later on the bank was solvent.

SS: How many years later did they start it up again?

GI: It was started up that next year after they closed. I don't think it was closed six months.

SS: How long did it take your father to get his money bank; what he had in it?

GI: I think within a year or so they had what he had in it. Well, he lost some, of course, but not too much.

SS: That sounds like it wasn't too bad then. Like I heard the Moscow State Bank only paid back something like fifty cents on the dollar.

GI: Well, there was several of them that did, but I think that that one particular bank, I think most everybody got their money out of it in the longrun. Pretty sure they did.

SS: It seems to me that that's also what happened in Troy, although the bank didn't close.

GI: The Troy bank was just about- they just told the depositors if they drew out their money they wouldn't have a bank and the depositors stuck with Ole Bdman, the old man that was in there for years, you know. They were just about ready to close but they kept it open by talking the people out of taking their money out. And Frank Green down there help a lot, he was pretty well off.

SS: So you think that if maybe they'd tried a little harder in Kendrick and if they'd have moved on it faster they could have—

GI: It's hard to combat something like that. One thing that sort of hurt em^at the Kendrick State Bank; the bank in Juliaetta was owned by the- well, it's the First Security now, but it was Melgar^ that had that old bank and they bought that Juliaetta bank and it wasn't going very good, and those people were the first to pull their money out. Some of 'em didn't like it they were losing their bank and they didn't realize what kind of a predicament they were really in. And some of those people were the first to^uli their money out. So

SS: Out of the Kendrick bank and put it into the Juliaetta bank.

GI: Yes. After the Juliaetta bank was closed, the Kendrick bank bought the Juliaetta bank, and so that moved all the depositors and all their paper and so forth. So, when this depression started going and some of them didn't like losing their bank in Juliaetta, so they were pro bably the first to start drawing their money out.

SS: Was it the Kandrick State that bought the Juliaetta bank?

GI: Yes.

SS: And it had been Melgafd's?

GI: Yes.

SS: And there were two banks in Kendrick, too?

GI: Right. There was the Farmer's Bank and the Kendrick State. My dad was a stockholder in the Farmer's Bank, too, but not very much. Just one share. They were $100 shares in those days, I think it was.

SS: That might have also put more strain on the community resources to have two banks instead of one.

GI: Right. At one time Troy had two banks, too, but they just had one bank at this time. That made a difference, too, I'll say it did. And the other bank was a branch of the- it was a Vollmer bank; branch of the Vollmer system in Lewis ton. And they had the backingjdown there of the bigger bank and they kept it from closing it's doors, but it wasn't in very good shape, either.

SS: Mentioning Vollmer; people in the early days- did Vollmer have kind of a bad reputation around Kendrick?

GI: Yes, yes, he did. There was some Vollmer land adjoinedJthe place that I have now and the Vollmer place, the other on the east- west side of the Ridge, too. I think probably the reason- I don't know how this happened but undoubtedly they probably loaned people money and then they couldn't pay their bill and they foreclosed on their land. And they got a pretty big holding. And probably some of the people just walked off and left it too, and probably some of them the closed. I know they foreclosed on one guy that lived over there by us. And they had an old guy, called him S. D. White, used to be the for Vollmer and oh, he was hard-boiled. I imagine he was pretty rough on some of these renters they had.

SS: Did he actually come out to these people's places?

GI: Yeah, I used to see him quite often when I was a kid. When they didn't pay their rent and that kind of stuff. I remember seeing him a lot. I remember one time that he called my dad up over the phone and we had^threshers there and they had this big machine threshing and I remember Dad saying, "You will?" He says, "We're ready to go." That's all Dad said and I asked him he said and he said that S. D. White said that he's going to put the h^ole board of directors of the Roachdale Warehouse in jail because they'd bought some crop off of one of these places.

GI: And he used to stop and talk to Dad once in a while, they really rib bed each other. I remember Dad was kidding him about what a hard-boiled guy he was. I think that's really where he go the reputation from. This one old guy he was as hard as nails. I suppose in those days maybe they had to be, I don't know. They wouldn't stay in business nowdays, I don't think.

SS: When you were growing up then, do you have any memories of Prohibi tion and moonshiners?

GI: Oh, yes, we had moonshine. There was moonshine a lot when I was a kid, and I remember them talking about it a lot. They used to catch a still once in a while out in that wheat country, down in the woods someplace.

SS: Did your father, being opposed to drinking, make you feel that you couldn't try it?

GI: Well, I don't know. I never had any desire to try it. Lot of the kids did. I've seen lots of it but I just never wanted to try it.

SS: Then your father's teaching-

GI: Must have been. Must have been his teaching.

SS: How much opportunity was there, do you think for the kids that were growing up to stay around Kendrick and the Ridge? With these big families and small farms.

GI: Well, really wasn't too much. Way it seemed to work out, the kids that went on to schoolJKon to college never came back, but the ones that never went to school after the high school and some of them after the eighth grade all stayed around home. Stayed in the community until they'd find something else, maybe get into some other field, but there wasn't too much work for big employment in the area. Of course, a lot of 'em went to the timber work, too. So they'd leave home to go work in the woods, the Potlatch Forest or some of those camps down at Deary and Bovill, and some of them went there. But stayed right in their own community. There wasn't much for them to do un less they farmed. I know there was one family there that all thevr kids stayed on the farm and they'd watch and maybe they'd get to rent a farm and get married and live there.

SS: At your time, did most of the kids go on to high school from the eighth grade?

GI: It was a small percent, really. And college, boy, that was out of this world! I think out of high school wasn't very big, seven pupils graduated from high school the same year I did, I think I was the only one that went on to college. Let's see, one of 'em went to business college, I guess.

SS: Were you set on going to college? Was it your idea or your father's?

GI: I just grew up with the idea that I wanted to go to college and tiy mother had been a school teacher and I guess it was just in my mind as I grew up, I just naturally supposed that was the thing that I wanted to do. And there were four of us and we all went to college. I was the only one that never graduated. I got my four years in. I quit the midyear in '32 when the Depression went home. And then I came back in the fall of '33, and so I got my number of years in but never got the right semesters in. But my brother went on and graduated from Ag school and then he came back and he and I farmed together and then he went back and got his master's degree in soil And my sister, one of em was a commercial teacher, taught school seven years and the other sister was a home ec graduate. She taught two or three years before she got married and then they went to New Mexico andA work(for the Indian Service and so she taught home ec down in- was it Albuquerque?- no, it wasn't Albuquerque but Gallup. She taught home ec there several years. We sort of had some resentment toward us kids in the local community about us going on to school with certain people, but we never let it bother us too much.

SS: What was Idaho like when you went to school?

GI: It was a lot smaller; I think we had between 1,500, 1,600 pupils. And in those days everybody said hello to everybody. They used to have these little that had" hello". Most friendly bunch of people you ever saw. Quite a change from high school, but it didn't take us long to blend in, I stayed at the old Hall, it's torn down now. It was a dormitory then and later on they made a co-op out of it. Wasn't a coop when I was going to school. Stayed there. The second year after I was there I got to working in the kitchen, hashing and scrubbing floors.

SS: Did you work your way through school?

GI: I was almost selfsupporting then after that. Well, see, my brother was just one year behind me and my sister one year behind him and then it ended up when I was a junior there was three of us up here. And my brother got a job working for a dairy and my sister got a job working for the veterinary at that time for the University working for room and board in the home. So, there wasn't a real big outlay but it was an effort. And we always had the support of our parents about going on to school. They never forced us, we just sort of grew up with that attitude; we wanted an education.

SS: You didn't get into a fraternity at all?

GI: No, I never joined a fraternity. My brother joined the TKEs later on. And neither sister joined a sorority either.

SS: That costs more money.

GI: Yeah, it costs more money.

SS: Was that a lot of why you didn't, or weren't you interested in it anyway?

GI: Well, I wasn't too much interested, really. I think one thing, the cost sort of bothered me and then I just didn't have the desire. Like some kids would come up here and if they didn't get to go to a frater nity they thought there was something bad about 'em. But I always remember one of our proctors, Bob Green, he's still living here around someplace- George Green. He got up in our dormitory dining room and he says, "it's rush week now. Some of you people aren't going to get a chance to go to a fraternity and some are. Some go to the fra ternity, it's going to go to their heads and they won't know you when you go to the fraternities. Remember if he's that kind of a person, he's not worth a tinker's damn." I thought about that; I knew some of the guys that pledged were just as friendly after they went to the fraternity and others it did go to their head. They thought that was something really out of this world.

SS: Did you feel that you were here just to learn? Or did you feel you were here to have a good time?

GI: I was coming here to learn, that was the idea of coming. We had some good times. You're bound to have good times. But basical ly you're supposed to learn.

SS: What were the kind of social good times that they had then?

GI: Well, we used to have, I don't know whether they still do or not. invite gals over to our dormitory to dinner and then dance afterwards. And then you'd be invited over to their place the next month or some thing. And then they had theirhall dances and they had dances down to the Student Union and the class dances. I learned to dance after I got up here, too. I don't know, seems like we went to lots of shows. And then I was quite active in the church group. The Wesley Foundation was the Methodist Church Group. In fact, that's where I met my wife. We had a party every Saturday night and social hour Sunday night and Sunday School in the morning. And it seemed like there was plenty of places to go and we seemed to have good times.

SS: Was she going to school here, too?

GI: Yes, she was a freshman the same time I was.

SS: From where?

GI: She was from the Boise Valley, down at Eagle, right close to Boise. Her name was Warren. At one time the Warren family had the most number of students from one family in the University till a guy by the name of Johnson came along and had one or two more. Brothers; her older brother was the first- nelCt to her older brother was the first president of Lindlay Hall when they first built it. Charley Warren. And then she had an older brother named George that graduated from law school. He's still living he's up in his eighties in Cali fornia.

SS: Was there a good deal of supervision of you young men and women when you were at the University then, or did you pretty much go their own way?

GI: The way they did; they controlled the girls, the girls had to be in at certain hours and that sort of controlled the boys. I guess they had to be in by midnight.

SS: I know that Dean French had quite a reputation.

GI: She was quite an old gal. I remember when I was a freshman and had this big deal on etiquette that she used to give every year and sometimes twice a year. The proctor saw that we were in to hear Dean French's lessons on etiquette; how to behave yourselves and all this kind of stuff.

SS: Did you get much out of it at the time?

GI: I guess we did. Of course, my mother was pretty strict on manners at the table and stuff like that, so it wasn't too shocking to me as it was to some, I guess.

SS: Do you think it helped some?

GI: Oh, yes, it helped. Of course, we had a lot of fun about it, but it helps, I know it .It had to help.

SS: I've heard people say that they- that it was common for the boys to hate Dean French the whole time they were in school and then after they got out turn around and think she was the greatest person.

GI: Yeah, they gave her hell all the time but she was pretty good, really. She was really softhearted. I mean, if you'd go in her office and ask her about something she was real nice to you. But, boy, at these meetings she really laid it down.

SS: Do you think that there was much fooling around, you know, like sleeping together before marriage, like there is these days?

GI: Not, too much. A Not too much.

SS: Not common. That's one thing that really seems to have changed.

GI: Yeah, it seems like they've sure changed a lot.

SS: Was the depression much of a pall over the way people were at that time? Did it seem to affect the students at the school? Because it was already started.

GI: I remember one kid that came to school and he played basketball, of course he got a scholarship, came here in an old Ford car and he didn't have money enough to run it and we'd throw our pennies together. Sometimes we'd buy a gallon of gas and we'd toot in that old car. One time I remember we had to push it downtown. There used to be a service station down at the foot of the hill down here where the electric company is down-there, down in there; we'd push it down the hill and we'd pool our money and get - gas was about 23c or 18 or 19c- get our pennies together and buy maybe two gallons of gas. We had a lot of fun. Everybody was the same. Everybody was hard up. I don t know, we had just as much fun then as when we had money.

SS: What were you studying then?

GI: I was taking business. Took business and ended up farming.

SS: So you weren't planning at the time to farm?

GI: No, I was going to go in the bank, was what I really intended to do. After I went home Dad wanted me to stay and help him farm and so I was going to help farm until my brother, came over to take over the farm and he came there a year or two and then he decided to go back to school and get his masters degree, and I don't know, I just naturally drifted into it. The war came in the early '40's, Dad said, "Well, I'll just run the farm over to you if you want to farm." So that's how I got to farming. I never intended to farm, but I haven t regretted it though. It's quite a business. Business education sure didn't hurt me in the farming. And I always worked real close with the county extension agent, program and so forth.

SS: So your brother didn't want to go back to farming then?

GI: No, not really. When he graduated he went to work tor the soil conservation service, then he got drafted in the army. Then when he came back he went to work for Libby's and he was a field man and buyer down on the coast for over twenty years for them. Then they retired him he dabbled in real estate and he's working for North west Packing Company. He quit it a while and just seemed to like to get back in it. He's quite a social guy and he knows his stuff in that line, buying for packers, fruit and vegetables and so forth.

SS: Did you have it in mind then to stay here if you possibly could?

GI: Yeah, I intended to go in the bank at home when Dad was on the board, really. But I had a chance to go to work there once and my uncle sort of- The banker was going to have to be out of town and there was only one man there, one man was gone, and they had to have somebody to be in the bank by himself and there was another fellow who worked in a bank for years that was unemployed, so this guy the experience, they better get him in the bank and then he got the second job after the this guy came back. He had to be gone a while. I just about got started there then. Then I got married; '35 it was.

SS: Things were pretty severe, I imagine, for your folks to decide you should really come home; or did you decide you should leave school?

GI: Well, yes, I sort of decided. My grades weren't too good and I wor- ried quite a lot about things my grades weren t very good that semester, and Dad just had to have some help.

SS: You were worried about the farm?

GI: Yeah, I worried about that, and so I just went home that year. And it was pretty tough pickings, I tell you. The bank had closed thatin December, I guess.that year. Then I went back in the fall of '33 again. wife graduated in the spring of '32 and my brother gradua ted in '33. And he came back to the farm about three or four years, I guess. He used to get so excited when things were pushing, you know, he wouldn't sleep of a night; got to get this done, got to get that done. So he decided he wanted to g© into something else. I think he had in mind to go into the soil conservation because he took his masters in soil

SS: You say things were pretty tough and slim pickings; did that mean that there wasn't that you could do.

GI: much money! SS What did you do then? Just worked the farm?

GI: Just worked the farm and I did a little bit of everything, if I could find something to do. I even hung some paper, papered rooms! For people. Worked on the telephone line, did all kinds of things, where I could get a few dollars a day. Don't get money very fast! Did you wind up taking over a lot of the farming pretty soon after you got out of school?

GI: Yes. After I came back put a lot of the responsibility of running the farm actually, say about the time I got married, '34, '35, along in there. Of course, my brother was there in '34 but I sort of took the lead on things and he shoved quite a lot of the responsi bility of running the farm over to me.

SS: When would you say it started really recovering; really coming out of the Depression?

GI: oh I suppose '37, '38, '39, through there, it started picking up. But when wheat's twenty-five and thirty-five cents a bushel, like it was in the deep depression, don't bring money in very fast.

SS: Were you selling it at twenty-five a bushel?

GI: Well, we never did sell any at twenty-five; some of the neighbors did. And then some sold at thirty-five cents. I don't think we ever sold anything below fifty.

SS: Did you know any of your neighbors who were in real diee straights? Really, barely had enough to eat?

GI: Oh, yeah. Generally the farm people generally had enough to eat. They had their gardens and their food and they canned lots and they had their own meat. They had animals they could kill, so they never went hungry. But they just didn't have any money to do anything else so they stayed at home and ate!

SS: Did anybody lose their places around there?

GI: Yeah, there was a few lost their places. I know the neighbor, he was going to throw his place up and he had a Federal Land Bank-note and he couldn't raise enough money to pay the interest and we had a real good guy here who worked for the Federal Land Bank , and he came out there and he just stayed with him half a day and talked him into the notion of hanging onto his place. You know most of these guys were honest and when they owed something they wanted to pay it when it was due and some of 'em just couldn't take the pressure. to work it out with some banks and some loaning companies were pretty reasonable about it, I mean if you try. But some of 'em, you know, they just figured that there was never a chance, they just quit. SSS Do you think the people that did give up maybe didn't have to?

GI: Some of 'em, if they could have stuck it out they could have stayed I think. There might have been a few that couldn't. There wann't too many in our area but there was some.

SS: What about politics in those days? I understood that the county, and Moscow especially, was extremely strong Republican.

GI: Yeah, it was, the county was. Ued to be that nearly all county of ficers were Republican. And it seemed like then it switched around I think that probably now it's about 50-50, the way it looks.

SS: Was your father a Democrat?

GI: Yeah, he was a Democrat.

SS: Was that really from his father's Southern background? grand

GI: Oh, I suppose. I'd tell my Republican friends that my father was a real Democrat. He came from Tennessee. He was a real broad-minded Democrat because he always said that a Republican was just as good as a Democrat as long as the Republican behaved himself. I've heard Grandfather say that a lot. (Chuckles) I know they used to really have some political battles. Grandfather ran for county commissioner one time and he always said he got counted out for he ran on the Demo cratic ticket. That was real early in the county history when he ran for it.

SS: He got counted out: What do you mean by that? They fixed the vote against him?

GI: Yes, that's what he always figured. I don't know whether they did or not, but he always figured, he always said, "Oh, I got elected, but I got counted out!" And I think politics in those days- elections and so forth- were probably a lot looser than they are now. In a deal like have now it's pretty hard to be counted out!

SS: Was Kendrick also strong Republican at the time? Or was it more even in the early days?

GI: Well, I think Kendrick- they had both, but probably Kendrick itself was at that time probably more Republican. But it was pretty well balanced.

SS: What about the balance of power between Moscow and the rest of the county in those days? You often get the idea that they got the county seat and grabbed everything.

GI: You always heard that, I've heard that all my life, that Moscow ran the county, but I don't think it really (did). they probably had quite a lot of influence on the other, but I don't think they ran the county. Because we've always had commissioners and legislators from other areas in the county. It hasn't been all elected in Moscow. But I think that's one of the things that happens when you have one big town in the county that people get that kind of an attitude.

SS: You think that the rural county did as well with roads and improve ments as they could possibly be expected to do in those early days?

GI: You see, it used to be- I can just barely remember when they formed highway districts. They used to have the county road supervisor and county roads. And they'd have the county supervisor appointed by the commissioners; county commissioners had charge of certain roads in certain areas. It was the same then as it is now, if they got a good supervisor they had pretty good care and they got a poor one they didn't. But then later on, they had highway districts formed and we had about twelve- I know they were consolidated a few years ago, I think they have nine but I think there had been a consolidation a little earlier; probably had fifteen or sixteen, probably, nearly that many, maybe not quite. And they were their own governing district and it just depended on how- of course, the money was limited, the amount they could raise, but it's like anything else, one group in one district the board of commissioners would get more out of their money- I mean, get more work done for the money than another district. It sort of depended on them. At that time road districts had a right to bond, too, to build roads and so did that and did pretty well and some did it and really loused up. They didn't have Enough technical service and so forth. I know the Deary District out there bonded and built a lot of roads down below town there one time. Of course, I was just a kid and I remember hearing the folks and other people talking about how they squandered their money, but maybe they didn't. Fact though when the state camexlong and built the roads they used a lot of this old road that they had, went the same place, so in the longrun it wasn't wasted.

SS: When you're talking about the consolidation it makes me think of the school consolidating that went on and I was wondering whether that was looked at, how positively it was concerned by the people—

GI: Well, quite a lot of concern and I was on th$Torganization board. I don't know anything you got chewed out for any more. See, they had eighty school districts in this county and this board consolidated them down to five. And I was a member of that board. That was in the late '40's. And you really got chewed out, they were losing their little red schoolhouse of course, but they didn't have the kids to put there. Big part of the schools at that time were going into the towns, a lot of them were under what they call temporary consolidation and they were going in and paying so much per pupil for them to educate their kids. And when the legislature passed a law, ten, I think it was, if a school couldn't afford to have a school out here then they would go under temporary consolidation after so long a time they'd have to consolidate. I guess they didn't close the loopholes enough so that they way it was fixed they could continue having one temporary consolidation after another. And so finally the state passed this consolidation law, set up the deal for a consolidation committee in each county and I happened to land on that.

SS: How many were on the committee?

GI: Six.

SS: Was it your responsibility to draw up the plan for the whole county/

GI: Right. Yeah.

SS: Then did that plan have to be approved by a vote in the county?

GI: By the district. We had to hold a public hearing in each district.

SS: Each of the sixty?

GI: No, each of the five districts we formed. And there was a lot of work. In fact, I ran most of the legal description of all of these districts. I took interest in that and I knew the descriptions pretty well. I ran all except one. I ran all the legal descriptions for all of the school districts.

SS: Legal description; meaning all the boundaries?

GI: The boundaries.

SS: What do you think of the concerns of these small communities? Were they legitimate?

GI: Well, not really, because here they would have...

GI: The old schoolhouse was standing there and the kids were being educated in town and they could only charge so much - a certain rate- for the education-^tuition, see, and that put the home school in an awful bad position. It was costing them more to educate the children within their own district than they were getting per pupil from the other dis tricts, in some cases. And I think that-

SS: You mean the burden of payment was on the home district? Was on Troy or was on the Burnt Ridge?

GI: Like in ours there, the burden would have been on Kendrick, because they were furnishing the facilities.

SS: And they were a lot more than they were getting per pupil?

GI: Yes Per Pupil and they could just charge for the cost of education like for the teachers' salaries and that, they couldn't run in their depreciation and stuff on their billings, the way I remember it, so it actually cost the people in town more per pu£if there than they were collecting from the rural district.

SS: My impression from what old-timers have said, I think the fear of what was really going on, maybe, was this emotional fear of the com munity itself, which was centered on the school, going down and dis appearing, falling apart because they wouldn't have this school as a focus. You know what I mean? That's my impression. Do you think that was going on, too?

GI: Well, the rural school used to be the center of the community, where they had all their different community affairs and so forth, but still they weren't using the school under this temporary consolidation, there were some that were, but a big percent of them would go into the towns anyway at that time. All of our schools in my area were under temporary consolidation; going in by school buses and so forth.

SS: So, it was in fact, already- they already had that.

GI: Had that before they made this compulsory consolidation law.

SS: What year was the committee operating? Oh, let's see, seems to me that was in- whether they passed it in '46 or '47, anyway, it was before the '50's. I think it was about '48 when they were consolidated. When do you think the little schools started to close up as temporary consolidated came in? Some of it happened around in '35 to '36, starting back that early.

SS: Just continued to grow?

GI: To grow, yes. You see, on our ridge I think they consolidated intemporary consolidated in '36, in the school where I lived. Two School's went together. One of the schools kept on having school and then in two or three more years they went in and first thing they had the whole thing. That's about what happened. The high school kids had to go in town anyway, and so they'd buy a school bus and have a temporary consolidation for the grade school pupils and the high school kids could ride on the bus. Used to be the high school kids were getting there the best way they can, driving cars and so forth. All in all, the people that were having children in school would^get by cheaper that way than having all these private cars. More tendency then for kids to go to high school than there was a little earlier.

SS: First just the high school kids were going in on the school bus?

GI: No.

SS: They were all going in?

GI: No, when they started in with the bus under temporary consolidation then the high school kids could ride on the bus. Prior to that the high school kids had to get there the best way they could or stay in town or something. But it was quite a radical change, but I think it was for the better, because it was getting then that the school population in rural communities was starting to dwindle off quite a lot from what it had been prior to

SS: The only part of it that I have been really questioned about- people wondering about- is the east end of the county, with Bovill and then those parts that are out of the county, Elk River and Clarkia. You know, Elk River and Clarkia seemed kind of stranded up there with support really too small a population to a ' district. Well, of course, I guess, they got the money in Elk River from their land taxes and timber. That's one thing that people would ask me about, too.

GI: I'll tell you, Bovill and Clarkia- Bovill wanted to try to form a district with Clarkia and Elk River coming into Bovill high school there. They did not want to go to Deary, Bovill didn't. Bovill people were all for that but the Clarkia and Elk River people weren't. I remember we had several meetings up there. That was a really hot spot out at Bovill when they finally decided to put Bovill in with Deary. We were going that way and then Troy and Deary sort of got together and they said, "Why don't you make one district out of the two and have a high school in each place?" Oh, we had a lot of opposition to that and so we held a hearing in Troy, I remember that very well. You've probably hear of Anna Marie Oslnnd; taught school for years there. We presented our plan, forming that White Pine District and we opened the meeting for discussion adn she got up and walked out there, and I wondered what's going to happend. She said, "I think this committee has done a wonderful job on this plan. I don't think they could have done any better. Let's all give 'em a hand!" And boy, our troubles were all over then. The ones that were there/wouldnft go against Anna Marie! (Chuckles) That was next to the last and that last one was the Potlatch District. That was sort of an unique district; Potlatch Forest owned the buildings over there, the old schoolhouse, that's where the apartments areAthere now. And we had a meeting with their board, their superintendent. The super intendent's name was Hopwood, Vern Hopwood, I think he lives in Clarkston now- and what was the name of the other guy's name that was on the board? Anyway he had the depot there for Potlatch?

SS: Was that Gamble?

GI: Gamble; Walt Gamble. And we had a meeting there and they weren't interested in this consolidation, says, "We've got several questions here that we got to ask our attorney." And just sort of made a mockery out of our meeting, we ddin't accomplish anything. So there was a guy by the name of Bodine of Lewiston who was on the state reorganization committee, and Louifl Boas, he was chairman of the reor ganization committee and Louif got pretty sore and he called Leo Burdine up here and he told him what our deal with Potlatch was and he just laughed to beat the band. He said, "The attorney that they're going to get their questions from is adjacent to my office," He says, "I think I can get next to them." We weren't accomplishing anything at all. And all at once we got an invitation for the whole committee to come to Potlatch school for dinner. We went up there and after we had our dinner they got up there and they presented this plan all made out and all ready to go, and.intent of Potlatch Forest giving the schoolhouse to the district. So they got that fixed up pretty good, pretty fast. But I'm sure that Bodine had quite a lot to do with that.

SS: Quite interesting that that's what it took. They were pretty indep endent, weren't they?

GI: They were independent but still they couldn't be too darn independent because they didn't own their building. You see, what had happened they had the school levies up there but when the money ran out, tea chers teaching there would probably get to the end of the year, they'd probably get checks Potlatch Froest paying them. So they sort of owned the thing so that subsidized the school that much. They were trying to be independent but they couldn't.

SS: The community?

GI: Yeah.

SS: They say up there that they had a really good school district in the early days; Potlatch put a lot of money into it.

GI: I think they did. As I say, when the money ran out Potlatch Forest picked up the rest to finish the year out. It went off real nice when they- but I m sure they told them down there for the boys up there to get with it.

SS: Were people on the board reluctant to have separate high school in Troy and Deary at first?

GI: Yeah, they were. We had one that was on the Troy high school board and one on the Deary board onn planning deal. First when theywhen this was first proposed to them they just said, no, then there was some people got to talking and decided, well maybe that would be the easiest way to do it and they finally went for it. We never went into a district to present a consolidated plan until the whole board was on and backing the plan, see. So that way they couldn't one^was against, that one was for. When we went in with a plan we 100% support from the whole committee.

SS: Was Deary for the consolidated district because it meant that they could have their own high school and maybe not go to Bovill. Yeah, I think that helped a lot. Of course, the Bovill people were against this. As I say, earlier, they wanted this Clarkia and Elk River. But they had a pretty good plan worked up there, but Elk River and Clarkia didn't want to have nothing to do with it. What about Kendrick and Juliaetta? That's the place where I always thought we had a good hot rivalry.

GI: We really did, I tell you, we really had a rivalry there and that was my home and I had to conduct that meeting. We had a rule that the one that was in the area was the one tht conducted the hearing. And Juliaetta came there with a force and they got right in the front row and they'd jump up and talk one after the other. And before I could get to recognize somebody. Finally Louif Boas passed the to 'em, he says, "Let's hear what some others have to say besides Juliaetta." I was trying to get to that position so I says, "Is any body here that's not from Juliaetta got anything to say?" The superintendent of school at Juliaetta got up and he just tore- and I says, "Sit down, I didn't recognize you." So, we got quite a lot of chatter going, but anyway when it was put to a vote the group approved it; approve* the plan.

SS: Did Kendrick ever get to speak out on it?

GI: Oh, yeah. Yeah, they got to speak. The people from Kendrick got to talk on it. I had one of my neighbors up there, 6rom one of the rural schools, that really tore he says, "Any many with any sense would know better than to try to do something like this." I'll always remember him saying that. He was hitting at me, see. But anyway, he didn't go over very big. You started to say for a year- for a year what?

GI: You mean about him saying that nobody of any sense would-

SS: No, before that, you were saying- you started to say; the upshot of the meeting was^proved, but then it just-

GI: For a few years after that, some of the older people in Juliaetta they just kept harping, "We lost our school'.' But the year that this happened they had one graduate in their senior class. And Kendrick went down and ask them if they wanted to consolidate the1Commence ment, and they said, "We're going to have our last graduation." So this one poor kid got the whole -° . But the kids works in good to gether. It took quite a while for some of the older people, I mean, losing their high school But actually what they happened, they had a better school afterwards because we took all the first six grades down there to Juliaetta. And ' the junior high and the high school in Kendrick. So, actually they were having more people in school than they ever had, in fact, had to build onto the schoolhouse a few years later down there. It took a while for them to get over but they still got their schoolhouse and the first six grades are down there yet. So it worked out real good, I think.

SS: You know talking about back in history, tradition, it seems like that the two towns always have had a bitter rivalry between them.

GI: Yeah, it all happened years ago. You've probably heard this story before; you see, Juliaetta was the first established town and they had the first post office down there. " they built the railroad down there they tried to get a right-of-way down there for a turntable to turn the train around because they couldn't make the ra ilroad clear to Lewiston then, and they was holding the railroad up and they couldn't get property and old guy name of Kirby owned the land where Kendrick was he says," I'll give you the (Land)." So the train for afew years turned around there at Kendrick even though when it went to Juliaetta it'd back up there and turn around and go back to Spokane. And that's really what gave the boost that started it. Kendrick got Kendrick a good start. I think probably there was some there be fore that, but that was the thing that gave it the boost.

SS: Then, it's really because Juliaetta people or something would hold the railroad up.

GI: That's the story I always heard, that that was what gave Kendrick the boost, because that was the end of the railroad. SDS: I just wondered; it seemed to me that maybe part of the rivalry came from the fact that the towns are so close. They're both pretty good size.

GI: They always had a fight; the old baseball teams- oh, Juliaetta and Kendrick baseball, each town used to have a town team, you know, baseball. And I remember them telling about it. And I saw some of it after I was old enough, after I got in school. They always had their fights over the old town team baseball.

SS: Was that a regular Sunday—?

GI: Yeah, that was a Sunday afternoon deal. And there was quite a lot of rivalry there. And then in the wintertime you used to couldn't get frcm Kendrick to Juliaetta on the road, it would get wet and it was muddy and so forth and that was when I was in high school when that road was first graveled, that they had a graveled road between Kendrick and Juliaetta. And then sometimes when I was in high school you hardly couldn t get through there^it would be so darn muddy. It's hard to believe now.

SS: Did the towns, do you feel like, that really between the people in the towns there was really a strong rivalry or was there a lot of friend ship underneath that? Or was it really more rivalry?

GI: More rivalry, I think. There was some of 'em that were real bitter; but there was rivalry. Now you take the t^epjione company in Kendrick was bought by the Schupfers, and they lived in Juliaetta, and things like that. They worked together but there was a lot of rivalry. Like events and things, especially the baseball and other things. I think some of the old-timers all thought Juliaetta should have been the bigger town. Of course, Juliaetta now is gaining population, but the business center is more in Kendrick. And Kendrick always had the doc tor and Kendrick had the dentist and the banks. Of course, they used to have a bank down there too. There's more business there; more stores.

SS: Do you have an idea why that's developed that way? That Kendrick has become the business center, and Juliaetta has kind of ?

GI: I don't know, I just don't know, I've often wondered about that. Listening to what my dad said and so forth, it probably started that way at the time of the railroad thing. Because it always did have the biggest business center. Probably the people had something to do with it. Maybe a little different attitude, I don't know.

SS: When you were going to school in Kendrick did you take part in any town activities outside of school? In high school?

GI: I can't remember if I did, much.

SS: You didn't dance and that kind of thing much?

GI: I went to church; got to going to church there some and stuff like that. Of course, at that time they had two theatres in Kendrick and we'd go to the shows and stuff like that. As far as taking part in any activities of the town, I never got started taking part in of the activities of the town. After I was back on the farm and started- well, after I got on this school reorganization committee then I started going to the Chamber of Commerce and I started briefing them on what the progress and what was happening to the school reorganization. So I gave a presentation when had the plan of what we were going to do and one of the guys got up and said, "We make a motion that we give him a three year membership in the Chamber of Com merce for what he's done for Kendrick." And that's how I got started there. Then when we had the reorganization .to form the board of direch tors- all these schools, I think there was actually- well, there must have twenty districts involved or more, more than that involved. There was part of Nez Perce County, the one district out of Clearwater County and then all of Latah County. I believe we had parts of twentyfour districts- of the old districts, and so each district had to have a trustee zone and there was a trustee for each district. And so they met together, the whole community meeting, and decide who was going to be on the board of directors. One guy got up and said, "Gerald Ingle thinks this thing'11 work, let's put him on that board of directors." I was already on one of the local school district boards that were coming in, so that's how I got on the Kendrick School District Board. So, we had a five member board. And then I got pret ty active in the affairs in Kendrick after that. I've been active ever since.

SS: Was it clear to everyone on the board that it made more sense to go and put the High School in Kendrick and the grade school in Juliaetta? Or the other way around?

GI: Well, it took a year gr two. We had a school at Leland. At the time I was in high school they had a two year high school at Leland; high school in Southwick and a high school in Kendrick. The Leland high school had folded up and Southwick's high school was coming into Kendrick on an agreement at the time of the consolidation. They quit and they were coming in on an agreement per pupil day. That just left the two; there was Kendrick and Juliaetta. But we had to keep the Leland grade school. We kept the Gold Hill school and the Crescent school,^rural schools. And there was another school we keptand the Southwick. Then we gradually, a year or two then, the people from Leland decided they wanted to come into Kendrick. And then it was the center and the bigger school.

One of the last things I ever did was when they closed up Southwick, that was the last hearing I conducted when I was on the school board. I had already been voted a replacement and the new director hadn't taken his place when we had that hearing to do away with the grade school up there. You see, the state changed its financial deal; they gave so much per schoolroom unit; we had two rooms up there/^ three grades and then the fourth, fifth and sixth in another. Well, the population had dwindled down so the state wouldn't pay us only for one schoolroom unit and we had to have two teachers, anyway, al most, the way it was worked out. So they decided- in fact, they were going to count that registration right in with the Kendrick registra tion so they wouldn't get credit for that unit up there at all. So there was no way for the board to go but to close that. I remember that hearing, I conducted that one, and, boy, I really got ironed out two or three times. It worked out pretty good. We had the two teachers teaching up there and took 'em into the system and it worked out real well. Iwas chairman of the board and the guy that took my place said, "I'm sure glad it was yuou that conducted that meeting, not me." He lived up there.

SS: That was Southwick? Southwick. That must have been '65. It went quite a while. Talking about getting ironed out; it strikes me that that happens an awful lot to a guy in public office. Ijust wonder if you have any thoughts about it now, representing what the law is. It didn't bother me as much as it does now, probably. I used to tell 'em that Iknew people were going to talk about somebody, and if they were going to talk, they just as well talk about me, and it's not going to hurt me as much as^he other person. But, I've gotten by pret ty well, but what gets me is when they start saying I'm dishonest or something like that; I've always tried to be honest and I've always tried to be fair with people. Do^as you would be done by. That has always been sort of my philosophy. This is my thirty-ninth year of being a public official, counting the schooljf and I think finally after a while it will finally get to you, best to take a rest from that.

SS: Thirty-ninth year? Does that mean starting thirty-nine years ago, or were there different—?

GI: Thirty-nine years counting- see, I was on the school board twentyeight years, and then a commissioner twenty years, they overlap. I said, elected official. I started in '37, that was when I went on the school board, I'm counting that as being an elected official.

SS: How did you decide to run as county commissioner?

GI: I took quite an active interest in county affairs and I'd been on the Fair Ba9rd fifteen years, and then on the County ASC Committee five years ve been quite active in the county, so I finally decided, well, why not run for county commissioner? And I'fife enjoyed it.

SS: Was it easy to get the party nomination at that time?

GI: No, boy, they had tried; there'd been petitions worked up for me to go to the legislature and for county commissioner before, but I would never sign it. And so, I went to this meeting down here and George Brocke, you've heard talk about George, Jr.'s father was in the legislature and I came to this Democrate meeting and I said, "You know, I've decided I'll run for county commissioner." And, boy, they just whooped and hollered. I had a pretty tough election that time, I only won by seventy-five votes, but the next time I won and the same guy ran against me, over a thousand votes and after that I never had any by either party, so got by pretty well.

SS: Did it affect your farming very much?

GI: Oh, yes. I could have made a lot more money by staying home, but I had hired help and I had a real good helper, my wife was really cooperative. She's contributed a lot to my success. She's got a good background. But I had to hire a lot of help, I was there to boss, though. I did a lot of work myself.

SS: Did you find it since the years have gone on since you started thatand which was the first year that you were commissioner?

GI: '56; or it was '57.

SS: Has it taken more and more of your time as the years went on?

GI: Oh, yes, a lot more time, just an awful lot more. Then, you know, it was pretty simple. You didn't have planning and zoning; you didn't have solid waste and you didn't have all these other programs- people programs involved in. We didn t have to spend too much time. We had two regular meetings and then we were probably on call two or three more times in the month and there were some night meetings you had to attend. But now you can just make it fulltime if you want to, there's something for you to do all the time if you'd do it.

SS: Has the administrative paperwork that's increased? How would you describe that?

GI: Just more things being added. More responsibilities. You see, we didn't used to have Civil Defense; we didn't used to have, as I say, Planning and Zoning. Then they^counties responsible for Solid Waste Programs. And there's other different programs- Federal pro grams to get mixed up in all the time to work with. Lots simpler than it is now.

SS: People told me tsjht in the '30's the commissioners were kind of a last resort quite often. You know, people that needed work and were really destitute during the Depression.

GI: I think the county was more involved in welfare then than we are now. Of course, when I first came on the board, the state didn't take care Aid to Dependent Children and stuff like that. That was our bailiwick. If they were under sixty-five, those kind of fellows were under us, so actually welfare work has actually decreased to what it was then. We had more responsibility, had to work with more people. Now they have the ADC and the juvenile deal, too and so forth.

SS: I've got one old chestnut to ask you about; the relation between the county and the state, I mean, there is a very widespread feeling, of course,that North Idaho gets the short end of the stick from the state as a whole. I'm wondering how you feel about that from your experiences.

GI: Well, I don't think so. But, we think sometimes. Northern Idaho that they haven't worked on the state roads like they have in South ern Idaho, but they can build roads so much cheaper down there. We're getting our share; we got the Whitebird grade and we're going to have the Lewiston grade

GI: We get our share, probably.

SS: What's it like to work with the state? Do you find in your experien ces that they understand the local problems well?

GI: Some do. I've always had pretty good luck actually working with the state officials. I think one thing now that Governor Andrus has done, he has this one guy, this Rollie Mooney that is appointive laison between his office and county and city government comes in every once in a while to visit with us. I think that helps. He was at our convention last week in Lewiston the whole time, he attends the city's convention, gets a feeling of the local governments and so forth. something I ve never had any trouble really with the state, and I've been quite active with the legislatures and I always go down there two, three, four times a year when the legis lature's meeting and a lot of the people in there I've known for years and work with them. In other capacities in the state, when I was on the school board those years and some of those people were on the school board, some of them did the same way I did, they started down here^low and some of em went to the legislative way and some of 'em went the commissioner way. Of course, now it's changing a little bit as I get older, some of them are dropping out but a few years ago I just knew an awful lot of people in that legislature that I had worked with on other programs, like the ASC Program and the school board.

SS: ASC?

GI: That's the Agricultural-

SS: - stabilization.

GI: Yeah. And the Victdi program. I've been past president of the State Association.

SS: You said that you were working with that kind of thing when you started in farming. Was that mostly with the state or the university?

GI: The university and the county extension agent upstairs.

SS: Did many farmers do that, or was that unusual?

GI: There was quite a few. There was quite a few there was some wouldn t have anything to do with them, but there's quite a few.

SS: What did they do for you mostly?

GI: They kept you up on the research and the new seeds. Like we used to raise lots of clover seed and the bugs came in and starting eating it and they'd help us with what kind of sprays to use and this kind of stuff and different methods of farming. The University does lots of research in establishing new varieties of grains and wheats, barley and so forth.

SS: Were you trying them out?

GI: I've had tests in my fields several different times years.

SS: Does this kind of information spread fairly fast among the farmers, do you think?

GI: oh I think so. Like when I had tests plots out on place, we'd have field days for the whole community to come in and explain dif ferent things. The thing of it is- thinking of an incidence: One year they had a helicopter came in and there was these people from the University and the extension service to look at this clover field of mine, trying to figure out these bugs that were eating up the clo ver blooms and cutting the yield. A neighbor across the fence, I went over and told him, I says, "Come over and talk to these guys." Said, "Naw, I don't have^use for those guys. Those white collar guys, I don't pay any attention." The next year they figured out a spray, but he was using the same spray I was the next year. He knew where to'get' the help but he wouldn't have anything to do with it, he wouldn't be classes as being out there with them.

SS: I wonder why that is.

GI: Just-

SS: Independent. Yeah. Farmers a class pretty independent. They don't like to be told.

And maybe he thinks of them as not really working for a living. Yes. But it was sort of funny. He wouldn't have anything to do with them but still the next year he was looking for spray to spray his clover.

Was that tendency there in the early days, too, of farmers to try to keep up on the most progressive ideas?

Some of 'em did and some the old ways suited 'em. All people aren't progressive. All people aren't leaders, some have to be followers. But they'll swear they won't have anything to do with a certain thing but if it works out for me they 11 be doing the - in a year or two. That's the way it works.

SS: I wanted to ask you, too, about what you think of people in generalthe interest or lack of interest that people have in running their affairs- political, in government and that kind of thing. They talk a lot about apathy these days, and I'm wondering if that's anything new or how that's changed in through the years.

GI: You mean, people taking an interest on what's going on?

SS: Yes.

GI: There's some people never pay much attention anyway, there's always been some that would take an interest. But I think probably people now are a lot more interested on what's going on than they used to be as a whole. I've made this statement several times: I wish the people that were thinking we were doing alright, would come in and talk with us. The ones we get are the ones that are against what we're doing. That's the ones we see, the other people say, "Well, they're doing alright, why bother." And there's getting to be a little more I think than there used to be.

SS: As far as, like say, being informed and knowing what's being done, it seems to me that- that typically, I have the impression that most people tend to not know very much what's being done or what's going on. Do you think it's always been that way?

GI: Oh, yes. Like people that's running their public office, they just say, "He's alright." and whatever he says is okay, and there's some watch out of the corner of their eye all the time. That's part of it I guess. You never will get all the public informed. I've noticed in the past things we've done, we've publicized it in the paper and yit'H on the air and notified by mail, and when it happens they say they never ever heard of it. Never heard of it!

SS: That's the big difference; communication's really easy now. In the teens and '20's most people probably didn't hardly get the paper.

GI: All they did was get the weekly paper. That weekly paper, that local paper was their news, and then when they began to get radios, of course, it was a little different. They weren't very well informed then, but they still could criticize their officials.

SS: What were the topics of discussion you've heard them raise?

GI: I think the one that you hear, and I've heard all my life is taxes. Wasting money; taxes. It's a lot different looking in than it is looking out. I think that's the thing that you hear the most of. They get their tax bill, they don't think anything about it till they get their tax bill and then that sets 'em off.

SS: That's something that the grownups talked about when you were a kid?

GI: Oh, yes. Still do. And, of course, they used to gripe about our roads. But there wasn't much we could do about it, used to be all mud roads, you know. The same , mud roads all the way to Moscow. I can remember when Kendrick's streets used to get to be about that much loblally in the street in the wintertime. Drive down there with a buggy and the front axle nearly to the mud in the old buggy. Then they'd come to these board crosswalks across the street that they got to go over like that, it was a mess, I tell you! I can remember when they paved the streets in Kendrick there. (Chuckles)

SS: Did they use to talk a lot, exchange a lot of information about farming methods and how to do thing, how things should be done? Or was that more of a private than public thing?

GI: I think probablyKthen a lot of these guys considered that was their private business. They might figure out some way they could get a better yield,,but they was going to keep that a secret from the nei ghbors. I think that was sort of the attitude of some of the old timers. If they had a better way of doing it he didn't publicize it too much, because he wanted to get that little advantage. That's just my feeling.

SS: The advantage, it wouldn't affect the price on his crop. They might get ahead a little bit.

GI: I don't know, that just seemed to be the attitude of the old-timers. I remember we had a county agent in this county ever since I was a kid that high. I think people looked at the county extension offices in the rural areas as being a helpful agency where people could go if they wanted to find out something, and if they didn't know the an swer they could probably find it for them or partially, anyway.

SS: Was the Grange an important social activity in those days; the early days, or has it grown?

GI: Well, Grange, I never joined the Grange until But the Grange, seemed they came in really the strongest, during the hardtimes, the Depression days. Seemed " the Granges grew pretty good. We had some pretty active granges. Now, it seems like that they've sort of dwindled down a little bit. But they were pretty strong there during the Depression and the hard years. Moscow had a real strong grange here and they had about 1,000 members. Now, I bet they haven't got 200- 150.

SS: Did that, as they grew strong, did that have anything to do with peo ple wanting to socialize in the hardtimes?

GI: I think it probably did. If they belonged to the Grange and they had their regular meetings they generally had dancing and entertainment which didn't really cost 'em very much. Somebody in the group played the fiddle and somebody could play the piano and that's the way it was when we joined the Grange in Deary. Old guy get up therewith his fiddle. He never charged anything and he didn't want any money, but just do it for fun. Well, they had their problems, their business problems but cheap entertainment helps a lot I think and socializing. I join ed the Grange in '42 or '43. I was elected master. I've been some kind of a Grange officer ever since.

SS: Do you remember having talked with some of the antiGerman feeling that went on in the First World War?

GI: Yes, I do. I remember one time that one guy in the community wouldn't buy any Liberty bonds; Bonds, and they elected a delegation to go up and nail a flag on that guy's house, and my dad was one of the ones that they picked to go up there. You know, they got pretty bitter about those people that wouldn't do anything. There wasn't very many, but it was pretty strong.

SS: Was this in Cameron?

GI: No, this

SS: This was right on the Ridge there?

GI: Yes. And he was German. This guy was a German and he wouldn't buy any Liberty Bonds and he talked for the Germans. And they made a good boy out of him. Pretty drastic, I guess! But you know what kind of a feeling it gave that guy when all these neighbors came in yand put a flag on his house!

SS: Yes, those guys would be in a very difficult position, I would think with their national background. Good many of the people have said to me, that they were really not patriotic and they had to be patrio tic then.

GI: Yeah, I think the feeling then was- patriotic during the First World War that was really a byword then, you had to be patriotic. I mean, if you weren't patriotic there was something the matter with you.

SS: Do you think even moreso than the Second World War, or was it about the same?

GI: I don't know. Of course, it may have impressed me more at that time, youngetf . Seemed to me like that could be- at the First World War the feeling was stronger or maybe just because I was young that it made more impression on me.

SS: Could you see the change in the dwindling of the small farms as the years went on around where you lived?

GI: Yeah. It just happened slowly. One neighbor buy out another one and get bigger farms. It was just a slow process, but over several years, you know, it makes a lot of difference. I think the land that I farmed there at one time, there was, oh, let's see, there was proba bly seven or eight homes, on this 800 acres of farm land, probably seven or eight homes where people actually lived at one time on that much land. Now there's two families on the old home place, I have it rented to another family, but two families live on it where there used to be about eight homes in that same area.

SS: So the neighborhood that used to be there is kind of gone now, it's not there at all.

GI: Yeah. It made an awful difference. The school bus now hauls, oh, I don't suppose they have over twelve pupils, they haul now, counting high school and grade school. And the school I was in when I first went to school, they'd go up to thirty-five and the school down be low us had about twenty and the Steele School had, oh, they had nearly thirty. And there was the Ferneal School, they had close to twenty and then there was ? school, they must have had fifteen or twenty pupils. And that whole area now is in the Kendrick school district and they have about, counting the high school and grade school, I don't suppose they have over a dozen.

SS: Was there much of the social life left when you got married and were living there in the '30's?

GI: Oh, not too much. There was some. When we first got married they still had the school next to us there and we had this temporary con solidation came up two years afterward, I guess, and they used to have their community affairs. They had- they called it Ladies' Guild, that s a little bit like a Ladies Aid, and they'd have din ners. Of course, they have their local telephone company, you know, had a board of directors. They've still got that system there. Don't know how much longer it can stay. Not very many of those left. They their cemetery and they had the board of directors for the cemetery, looked after that, but that's in the Troy cemetery district. And nobody out there is on the board. Those things gradually get b*fgger, takes the power away from the local community a lot.

SS: When you were out there then, what did you and your wife do for social life?

We just didn't do too much. The first few yeass we lived up there, we had a muddy road going to town in the wintertime, we just stayed there most of the winter. I'd go to town some and then as things im proved we got more active. We were married in '35 and we never joined the Grange until '42, I guess. And she belonged to this Ladies' Guild they had there on the Ridge and had their meetings once a month. We just didn't go very much. We just didn't have much money to go on either! We figured if we went to Moscow, we spent $10, we'd spent our wad for a long time. We'd go to Moscow once a month probably and then of course, we'd go to Kendrick all the time. Moscow was the shopping town. Once in a while to Lewiston. That was a real splurge when we went to Lewiston.

SS: One other group that juat crossed my mind that I wanted to ask you about was the IWWs. Did you hear anything about them?

GI: Yeah, that was during the First World War. This IWW quite a lot about the IWWs. Industrial Workers of the World, I guess they called that. I remember them talking about it. I remember Dad and the hired man went to one meeting; they had an IWW meeting up in the old schoolhouse. I don't know what was said, I heard the hired man tell my dad, "I'd sure like to know what would have happened if some body'd had an alarm clock setting in that building and the alarm would have went off!" (Chuckles) Maybe that was a meeting against the IWWs, I donft know. Must have been.

SS: I think it probably was, because I know at the time they were trying to form this protective association, you know.to guard the fields. And there was a lot of fear among some people.

GI: Threshingkiachine burnt up over there on the place adjoining us and of course, everybody just said, "Well, it was the IWWs caused it."

SS: Was there any evidence that they did?

GI: No, there wasn't any evidence. That was the first conclusion they drew. But I'm sure there wasn't any evidence. They talked about sticking something in the middle and setting fire. It could have been, but I don't think so, really.

SS: Wasn't there a lot of smut at that time?

GI: There used to be- The grain, the wheat I've seen lots of times when they wheat the smut'd fly out so that you couldn't even see the machine. And they used to have some of these smut explosions. I think that's what caused that machine to burn that time; it was a smut explosion, I think. Just get so much dust and it'd just blow up.

SS: Was threshing a great time for the people around there; was that a special time?

GI: Yaah, it was a special time when the threshers came. They used to have a crew of about twenty to thirty men, you know. And they'd come in and you d have bundle wagons and you'd have pitchers and they had their bedrolls, you know and they'd sleep in the barn, sleep - or roll em out in the open or the haystack. They didn't stay but three or four days^ but that was quite a time for us kids, in the old days.

SS: Would you kids work or just watch?

GI: Well, first we had our chores to do, but not till I got a little older then I got so that I had to work; thirteen, fourteen, and in there. Started driving bundlewagon I guess when I was thirteen. SS These guys that worked, were they local men?

GI: Most of 'em were local men. But down there, the machine that threshed for us, a lot of the people working there were people from the northern country around Deary and Avon where their crops were later they down on the Ridge with this threshing crew, work down there ear lier then some of 'em have to quit and go back and harvest their crop. But a lot of 'em were people from that area.

Was that a very coordinated operation? I've had the idea- I never really asked anybody-but it seems like there were all these different things going on at once, probably had to work pretty closely together to make sure everything went well.

Oh, yeah I tell you, there was a lot of difference in crews. If you had a good crew boss running the thing, things just went like clock work. When they g$t done, certain guys rolled up the belt, one turned the blower down. One did this and one did this and one hooked onto the engine on the machine; everybody had their job, you know. They'd finish up and they'd be gone. And then the same way when they'd move each one had their certain things to do. Of course, in those days, the grain was all sacked. Sack sewers had to take care of their sack sewing spout and get their sacker up and certain guys put up the blower.

SS: If you were moving real fast?

GI: Oh, yes, you bet. Especially in some crews, the guys that were really progressive guys got their work done. That s the kind of a threshingmachine crew you wanted because the guys that moved like that would generally get the work done. They had two or three company machines like that come in and the one that- there was competition- and the one that really got the work done was the one that got the most thre shing done. They got paid by so much a sack.

SS: Time was really money, then?

GI: You bet it was!

SS: Who did you have around there? Were the Olson Brothers over there?

GI: Bower- Charlie Bower, Old Charlie, young Charlie. out there now, his dad used to run a machine and then the Olson brothers used to come down, we used to say went down to thresh for the Swedes or the NorwegiansAon the Ridge used to come down there once in a while. And there was another machine down there, Fairfield, Old Man Fairfield had a threshing machine. And he wasn't very much of a pusher. He got some threshing, but he didn't get to thresh too many people 'cause he fooled around quite a lot, but he had a machine. But the Bowers, he was the one that threshed, when I was a kid, did the biggest area.

SS: I'm glad you mentioned Swedes and Norwegians, because I was going to ask you about that, too. Was the communities somewhat separate, fairly separate in the earlier times there: the Swedes and Norwegians?

GI: Well, the Swedes lived north up around Deary and the Norwegians on the lower end of nd they were real sociable. As far as their own affairs, they stuck together a lot, they were pretty clannish at that time. Ater years, you know, got intermarried and some moved out, you couldn't tell the difference, but at that time I think they were sort of clannish. And of course, that was mostly Nor wegians there and then say north of us there were Swedes. I was amu sed at one of the guys, lived down there when I was a kid, he just two or three years older than I am, but he lives up by Deary now, and we see each other. I says, "How you geting along with those Swedes, up there?" "Oh, fine." He says "I'm almost a Swede now." We joke back and forth, you know. He can remember how it was in the old times, I guess. But they were sort of clannish. Course, I can't blame 'em, sitcking together.

SS: They were fairly strict about dancing, too.

GI: Oh, yes, they were real strict. They were just like the rest of the people, some lax and some weren't.

SS: Did you ever know the Wellses at all, up at Deary? Joe Wells?

GI: Yeah. He came out West with the Wells brothers; the Wells brothers' house was just over the hill out here from buffalo are, that was the Wells brothers' house. The Wells brothers were real good friends of my grandfather.

SS: Yeah, being both from the South.

GI: Joe Wells - he was their slave back before they moved out here. The story was told to me, and he set up a farm out there just east of Deary there a little ways; the old Wells place, I remember. Then he had- I know there were two sons, there was Chuck and Roy and I knew Chuck real wweellll. AAnr^d It usedj to pasture cattle back there and I used to load cattle out there at Chuck's. And I helped Chuck out a lot when he got sick and so forth and in the nursing home out here. He was a real good guy, Chuck was. He never asked for any help unless he absolutely needed it. Never took advantage of you.

SS: Was he a pretty tough guy? I've heard stories that he was a really tough man in the woods.

GI: They didn't push him around, he was a real man. He was husky and short and heavy set and husky. They respected him pretty well. He was a hard worker. He used to^on the threshing crews, he used to haul water, be the waterboy for the threshing crews sometimes, Chuck was.

SS: When he was a grown man?

GI: Yeah.

SS: I thought that was more of an old person's job.

GI: No, I tell you that was a hard job, because you pumped all that water by hand; one of these hand pumps. And it took a man to do it. And sometimes the places they had to go in to get this water in these water tanks for these big steam engines, they'd have to drive a four horse team and sometimes took a damn good driver to get into to where they had to go to get water.

SS: Do you think he had to take a fair bit of annoyance because he was a black. Negro from some people?

GI: I never got that feeling. I remember when he used to be in the crews and they'd joke back and forth, they all seemed to have respect for Chuck. I knew Chuck a lot better than I did Roy.

SS: Would they joke about his color, was that part of it?

GI: Yeah, and he'd joke about 'em being white and stuff like that. I mean, I don't remember any- he never had any trouble in these crews, that I can remember. He was always pretty well respected. Have you heard otherwise from others?

SS: I've heard about him getting into a few fights in the woods maybe more with the lumberjacks who wouldn't know him. Didn't know who he was.

GI: That was probably was, but he could take care of himself pretty well.

SS: I've heard that he drank pretty badly.

GI: I think probably some of these fights and stuff was caused by when he did have a little too much.

SS: I also heard about his wife.who left him eventually. Did you know her at all?

GI: Yeah, she went and married a Ross. Dan Ross. Knew Dan Ross real well. Knew his brother better, or real well, he used to be county superintendent here and he was superintendent of school at Troy.

SS: His brother?

GI: Yes. Dave. And I knew old Dan real well. He was quite a guy, Dan was,

SS: What was he like? I heard he was a character, but I didn't know why.

GI: Oh, he was hard-boiled and he called a spade a spade and he was very outspoken, and they didn't push much over on him.

GI: They wanted a line to go in there, take part of that district. So they appointed us the committee to go ' and talk to those people. And she'd go in- and she'd get the jump on me. And we were talking to people, "Which way do you want to go?" when they divided this dis trict. Said, "Your kids are going to Lapwai, they don't want to comedon't want to leave that school and go to another school do they?" But anyway some of 'em did come this way.

SS: To Kendrick?

GI: Yes. And so, we got up there and one of her stooges, one of her guysshouldn't call 'em stooges, got up and he says, "I make a motion that Stony Point District in its entirety go to Lapwai." Well, Lapwai wanted them real bad. They were a pretty rich district and they had some money that they had to spend, and made a motion. Of course, the motion carried. In a deal like that, the people that didn't want to go, they were in a minority, they lived at the upper end; it should have been divided. And then one of the guys got up and says, "Well, if Stony Point go to Lapwai, we just as well move this line up closer to Leland." And I got a hold of , I says, "Get this thing closed up right now because they're going to try to take more." So we got— (Chuckles)

SS: surprised me.

GI: She looked after

SS: She told me that Lapwai had a lot of problems when they did that consolidation. She said that there a stuff going on. She had a hard time with it though.

GI: Yes, I think she ended up on the board down there, didn't she?

SS: What abottt Viola, by the way? They seem to rankle some over about not having a school.

GI: Who? Viola, out there?

SS: Yeah. They were really opposed at the time?

GI: No, they were coming in here anyway. Ihey were?

GI: I'm sure they were. Big part of them were. But, I don't know, Viola has always sort of stuck out there, a sore thumb about something, it seems like. They've had taverns and stores and stuff out there,Mbut I don't remember them putting up much fuss at the time. Moscow Has the first district consolidated of the five. See, they were 281 and Genesee is 282, Kendrick's 283, White Pine 284 and Potlatch one thing here at Moscow, the rural people had a bond to pay off on this building over here and the rural people wouldn't accept paying the bond. But of course, the law is, if they'd have voted to do it, they could, but the law is the people the bond is voted against is the ones that have to pay it off, so they had a split deal here on their bonds for a while, and just the old district had to raise money to pay off that bond. Down in our district, they voted- Juliaetta had a bond- they absorbed it in the whole district, so it didn't hurt any body very much. Some did that way and others- Moscow was the only one, I guess just stood pat, "You guys got to pay your own debts." I'll bet that's one of the things that came from Viola..

SS: Do you see any difference now between Democrats and Republicans? Would you mind being a Republican yourself rather than a Democrat?

GI: I don't think I'd be any different. I don't think on a local level there's too much difference, really. I think in this county, espe cially. I think it depends on how many people know you whether you get elected or not.

SS: But in terms of philosophy of the parties?

GI: It just seems to me working with Republicans and Democrats, the peo ple I've worked with, seem to be more interested- seems like . Demo crats are a little bit more interested in people; maybe they aren't, maybe it just happens to be that the Republicans I worked with aren't. I've had Republicans on the board up here and a few of 'em seem to have a little different attitude. Like Gracie Wicks, she's a real Staunch Republican; she didn't have any compassion at all for poor peoplei I always figured it's no disgrace being poor, it might happen to any of us. They deserve the same kind of treatment as somebody that not poor, and that's.been my attitude. I mean, treat people the same, rich or poor. But she was real hard-nosed about some poor people. I always wanted to be able to talk to either one. Then I think some Republicans are that way, too. Maybe that's how 1 got my impression, I had a little bit more compassion toward peo ple than some. But that probably run different in different communi ties.

SS: You can see that in the presidential campaign right now; that kind of difference between the two men in the way they approach-

GI: Yes I noticed that, too. I remember the next day after I got elected, a guy walked up to me and he says, "I've been a Republican all my life and I voted for you." And, he says, "I'll tell you one reason." He says, "I can come and talk to you and you'll listen, that guy you running against I couldn't talk to him, he talks." So, I've always had the philosophy, somebody come to me- I have a little bit hard time with the board here now, somebody comes in to blow it up, I always let 'em run down, then I can talk, but you start arguing right off the bat, you never get anyplace. But if he gets his say in, gets run down, then I'll have a pretty good chance. That's always been my philosophy.

SS: It makes sense. It sounds like human relations.

GI: Sometimes it's pretty hard to sit there sometimes, but they general ly run down pretty soon.

0:00 - Early farming in the area and going to Kendrick with father

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Segment Synopsis: Early farming. Going to Kendrick with father.

6:00 - His father's interests in the area; farming their land and chores he did as a boy

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Segment Synopsis: Father was on board of directors of Kendrick Roachdale Company, the farmers' co-op. Father's interest in development of country and civic work. They farmed more than 300 acres, part owned by relatives. He ran plow as a boy; family chores.

15:00 - Not missing school for work; how learning took place; and differences in size of the boys in school

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Segment Synopsis: His family very seldom missed school for work on the place. Schools on the ridge. An amazing amount of learning took place from listening to others recite. Overgrown boys in school were mean to the small kids.

20:00 - Mother's work; going to high school In Kendrick and adjusting to school in town

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Segment Synopsis: Mother's work - she quit teaching after marriage. Getting to high school in Kendrick. The dangerous grade; shortcuts by foot. Adjusting to school in town.

29:00 - School activities; Holidays at school; Dancing not allowed and then allowed in the 1920s

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Segment Synopsis: Social activities in the community - Christmas celebrations. Dancing was taboo, games permitted. In the twenties they built a community hall for dances.

30:00 - Social activities and father's opposition to them; Conflict and cooperation on small communities; building a new church and church social activates

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Segment Synopsis: Dances at the community hall. Father's opposition to dancing, cards and drinking. Conflict and cooperation in small communities - living with differences. Building of new church from United Brethren Church. Church socials, little work on Sunday; Sunday socializing.

39:00 - Neighbors were also family; why grandfather came west and first winter; preparing for winter then not going anywhere for its duration; winter work

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Segment Synopsis: Neighbors who were relatives. Grandfather's settling on the ridge. He came west because of his asthma. Grandfather's story of the first winter (1883), living on rutabaga and bear meat. Yearly trip to Moscow for winter supplies. People holed up for the winter. Turnover of early population. Winter work.

52:00 - Hard times during the Depression; banking in Kendrick and Juliaetta; dislike of Vollmer

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Segment Synopsis: Hard times for family in depression. Father's optimism about future. Closure of Kendrick State Bank in a run, when his father was president, reorganization with little loss of money. Juliaetta people withdrew money from Kendrick State, because it had absorbed their bank. Dislike of Vollmer, who foreclosed on some forms; S.D. White, Vollmer's hard-boiled agent.

60:00 - Being able to go to college; experiences at the university and working during school

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Segment Synopsis: He didn't drink as a young man, though many did. Lack of opportunity in community for those who went to college. Few went to high school, extremely few to college. He naturally wanted to go to college, as did his siblings. Some resentment towards them for going to college. Friendliness of university. He worked while in school. A proctor cautioned the students about fraternities. College dances and other social life. Wife's family. The girls were controlled, which controlled the boys; Dean French. Lack of money for gas.

75:00 - What he studied in college but took over the family farm; leaving school because of the Depression; how the depression affected area farmers

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Segment Synopsis: He studied business but took over the family farm. He had hoped to work in the bank. He left school for home during the depression, because his help was needed. Farmers had enough to eat. Some gave up their farms: a man persuaded to stay by federal banker.

84:00 - Issues in local politics; grandfather running as democrat; vary successes with bonding

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Segment Synopsis: Grandfather's joke about Republicans; grandfather thought he was "counted out" when he ran for county commissioner as a Democrat. Moscow hasn't dominated county as much as many think. Road districts and varying success with bonding.

89:00 - School consolidation: he was on the reorganization board. Effects of temporary consolidation

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Segment Synopsis: School consolidation: he was on the reorganization board. Effects of temporary consolidation.

90:00 - School consolidation and the problems associated with it

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Segment Synopsis: Burden of cost was on towns under temporary consolidation, beginning in the mid-thirties. Consolidation made it easier for high school students to get in.

95:00 - Which schools consolidated with whom; opposition to school consolidation

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Segment Synopsis: Bovill wanted to consolidate with Elk River and Clarkia, but those towns opposed it. Acceptance of plan at Troy was won by Anna Marie Oslund's support. Overcoming Potlatch Corporation's initial opposition to consolidation, Disagreement over consolidation between Kendrick and Juliaetta; Juliaetta's last graduation.

105:00 - Rivalry between Kendrick and Juliaetta was intense; Involvement in Kendrick civic affairs; closing Southwick grade school

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Segment Synopsis: Kendrick got started by giving land for the depot, while Juliaetta people wanted money. Rivalry over baseball. Rivalry was intense between the towns. Kendrick's business district has been more successful. Involvement in Kendrick civic affairs. Process of school consolidation around Kendrick; closing Southwick grade school.

115:00 - Dealing with criticism as a public official; why he ran for county commissioner; how he farmed while also working as commissioner; workload for commissioners

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Segment Synopsis: His response to criticism as a public official. Decision to run for county commissioner. Importance of help from wife. Hiring help for the farm while he worked as commissioner. Increasing workload for commissioners caused by greater responsibilities. Less welfare responsibility now. North Idaho fares well in terms of state.

120:00 - Working with state legislators and extension services; criticism of taxes and bad roads; keeping farming methods secret

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Segment Synopsis: Acquaintance with state legislators who had similar backgrounds to his. Working with extension service - some farmers would have nothing to do with them, but picked up the new advances. There's more interest in government now, and more complaints. Criticism of taxes and bad roads. Farmers kept their personal methods secret.

131:00 - How the Grange provided social lives during Depression; patriotism during World War I

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Segment Synopsis: Growth of Grange in the depression provided social life. Nailing a flag to the home of a German who wouldn't buy liberty bonds. Necessity of patriotism in First World War.

135:00 - Decline of population and farm consolidation; lack of social life after marriage; IWWs were an issue and not trusted

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Segment Synopsis: Consolidation of small farms, decline of population. Community life on the ridge in the thirties. Lack of social life after marriage during hard times. Meeting in schoolhouse against IWWs; unfounded suspicion of them causing a threshing machine fire.

142:00 - Threshing and the need for coordination; early clannishness of Scandinavian communities

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Segment Synopsis: Threshing time. Coordination essential for quick threshing, which people preferred. Early clannishness of Scandinavian communities.

147:00 - Connection to the Wells family

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Segment Synopsis: Joe Wells; Wells brothers were close friends of his grandfather. Chuck Wells - his acceptance. Dan Ross.

150:00 - Loss of Stony Point district to Lapwai, instead of Kendrick. Viola problems. Moscow made districts pay their own debts.

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Segment Synopsis: Loss of Stony Point district to Lapwai, instead of Kendrick. Viola problems. Moscow made districts pay their own debts.

155:00 - Differences between Republicans and Democrats in the county

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Segment Synopsis: Little difference between Republicans and Democrats on local level, although Democrats seem to have more compassion for the poor. His acceptance of poor. He listens to people so they can speak their mind.

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