Latah County Oral History Collection

Rob Moore: Lester Crocker was born and raised in the town of Kendrick. As a child and as a man, he hunted and fished many of the watersheds which flow into the park, which on this tape he talks about hunting and fishing in the early days, but his experiences as a rural mail carrier on American Ridge, about ice houses and about many of the great fires which burned in the early days as as a rural mail carrier.

you were born here in Kendrick, weren't you? September 1st.

Lester Crocker: 1899. I was born here in Kennewick.

Rob Moore: Were you. Were you born at your own home or what?

Lester Crocker: Born at my own home, yes, I was, and, the old fashioned country doctor by the delivery.

One of the one of the kind that used to have the horse and buggy and, make calls on the country roads at that time, of course, were old dirt roads. When it rained, there were mud. But above new wintertime, the snow was so deep that you had trouble getting around. Right here in town. I can remember when I was a child from the home before I was a teenager.

I can remember when the snow was put in half deep right in our front yard. But things have changed now to where? Some somewhat, if I don't get it, snow at all. You know, having being a lady there, you know that. Of course.

The summertime weather, of course, was hot and dry and dusty and.

Unknown: And, and.

Lester Crocker: Everybody praying for rain and, and we see a big cloud coming up and begin to rejoice. And. Hey, hey, we're going to get a rain storm to cool things down a little bit. And he proceeded to let the wind come up. And first thing you know, we'd have a dust storm right?

Rob Moore: Let's see. Sort of like this year. Yeah, quite a bit.

Lester Crocker: Quite a bit like this year, of course, in those days, forest fire was, well, much more serious than it is now because, in present, the method of fighting fires is so advanced over what it was at that time, the that they can get on them right away and, put them on the ground and to the point where they, they can't do too much damage.

We hope.

Rob Moore: How did they handle fires in early days? Well.

Lester Crocker: they had, stations around and, in the forest, you know, ranger stations and smoke chasers that they caused will just be able to look out on the top of the mountain like they are somewhat like they are today. And of course, the only way of, reporting a fire. But, by phone and. Then the only way to get to the farm was by, shot a horse and to to the fire, I mean, was by shot, a larger black string to take the equipment and and try to take the man, to the on fire.

Unknown: there were, of.

Lester Crocker: Course, there were lots of big fires where in a number of cases of our lives lost in the fire.

Rob Moore: Did you do much firefighting?

Lester Crocker: I never did do any firefighting on the big fire. in the small fire that it had here in the canyons right here on coast at, well, not if you told me. You know, the biggest fire we had here in. But I do. It was in the 30s, 1930s, early 30s, and, we didn't have been home at that time.

We were over or visiting some friends and or our parents called up and told us not to try to come back over the hill because the road was right, come right through the camera, through the the fire scene.

Unknown: So we went back down road by arrow and,

Lester Crocker: Came back up the canyon. When we got here where everything was smoke and fire on both sides of the canyon except the south hill over here didn't burn or the where the timber is. So,

Unknown: But, both of the,

Lester Crocker: Bear Creek canyons, Little and Big Bear and the Potlatch Canyon.

Unknown: And the fire,

Lester Crocker: And also, the area up toward Cameron.

Unknown: And all burned off in the car.

Lester Crocker: Was it mostly.

Rob Moore: Because of the above ground brush type fire?

Lester Crocker: But it was started by the train up in, Little Bear Canyon on the railroad.

Rob Moore: There was a logging trail or was it? And I don't.

Lester Crocker: Remember longest, or it may have been, but I'm not sure. I don't believe it was because there wasn't much.

at that time, there weren't many logs hauled through here, mostly went to small mills and around in the country, and the whole logs and with the heavy horses and.

Unknown: And so them right there, lumber was hard and, with, heavy home.

Lester Crocker: Heavy lumber wagons, four, six horse teams and work for the railroad there in Little Bear Run, a big barn.

Rob Moore: Where the railroad would have Little Bear, where the.

Lester Crocker: I mean, Little Bear Creek. Yeah, it's the present road, just as it is right now for the Northern Pacific Railway. Right. A blue shade. on the right, a little bear kind industrial. And then on in Spokane.

Rob Moore: Or you were here then when the, 1904 fire it can.

Lester Crocker: I was here, but I was too young to remember anything about it. Although I do, it seems to me that I can remember seeing, there were some explosions in the fire, and, it seems to me that I, either remember seeing or I remember hearing them tell about the junction, charred wood and stuff that were flying through the air, you know, from the explosion.

being Mr. Real small child, I couldn't verify the fact that I actually saw those things.

Rob Moore: Well, your house wasn't wasn't called of Cliff. Or was it? No.

Lester Crocker: No, I just went to build a section. No. Well, you know, down on the fly, toward.

Rob Moore: where folks do for a business section. And after that.

Unknown: Well, the,

Lester Crocker: And set up a bunch of attention. Tried to go ahead with business, and it wasn't just a short time. Deliver on on the road to building new stores. And instead of the old frame buildings where they don't, from the brick. And many of those are still standing.

Gracious. The temple building down near the lodge. Home depot building was built in 1912, I believe, or 19. Maybe even earlier than that. But there's really, the date is on the front of the building, and I'm. I may be confusing that with the first brick school building was built here. Here's a building, 1912.

Of course. You know, I started the school in 1907. And, The school I went to, of course, we looked at all the primary school that was done and the far in the town where that,

Or the, the shadow clubs have their their, Oh, fenced in area. They're not known for their gym counters. And one thing, another. And.

I have a picture in.

Rob Moore: Here of,

Lester Crocker: The inside of that school building. But the picture was taken, I think, in 19 four, 1905. Just a. Before I started the school. And I can't identify the people or the kids.

Unknown: Or how long did you go to that school?

Lester Crocker: Just one.

Unknown: Year. And then they,

Lester Crocker: Made other arrangements and did away with the school and made room for them up here on the hill. Of course, that was a frame building to not really stood right out on the brow of the hill or bridge of Red down or that block. You know, we were run up and down the bluff, where you can look out and see where the new school.

so now and, when I went to school there until 1912 and the brick building was built across the street over there. how long have you been here? I've been here about two years. Just two years. you don't.

Rob Moore: Remember the old building?

Lester Crocker: I used to. It was torn.

Unknown: And the,

Lester Crocker: Gymnasium building is still up there on the hill and never sold to the VFW. And they used it for their. Their, get togethers and different functions at the.

Rob Moore: But it was a one room schoolhouse when you when you attended.

Lester Crocker: The, the wound up that the primary school down in the lower part of town was just a one room building. I get that picture. Just to give you an idea, I find it. It was.

Rob Moore: when you were. When you were a kid, you were pretty interesting. Fishing and hunting.

Lester Crocker: Oh, yes. Yeah, my dad's trying to turn me on. since I was able to walk for. He was always a hunter and fisherman.

And, he was very particular about.

Unknown: Training us to.

Lester Crocker: Respect the danger of firearms and, and taught us how to handle.

Taught us to never put a gun in anything unless we wanted to kill it.

Of course, in those days, there were, Large. There was a large board game. And then there is the present, particular birds and and deer, but,

The.

I think as a result of some of the big fires, the elk and deer bulls increased in some areas because of those fires, the timber, you know, being killed and the brush comes on, of course, such a nice natural brush for the wild game, for the big game. And the green do up a little more in the 40s and 50s.

Well, we had more game than ever before.

Unknown: But now. It's well.

Lester Crocker: I don't believe there's one animal, not a where there were a dozen back there and back in that period.

So when we go hunting in the fall now we just it's just a chance for the weekend to read or not.

Rob Moore: Watch your family play, depending on on the when hunting, when when you were.

Lester Crocker: Well, not really dependent on it, but then it was a nice thing to to be able to have the I had me for a family when. You know, when you didn't, when it was kind of hard to, to get me any other way and.

It was quite a saving, really, because while, equipment to, you know, guns and and fishing tackle and all that sort of thing in those days were, were cheap and it didn't cost anything like it does not follow that.

Unknown: That,

Lester Crocker: What shall I call it that it isn't, a habit and it isn't a business or it's a pleasure, I guess, a recreational form of recreation at the same time where we hunted, we were meat hunters, not trophy hunters who, I myself almost raised our our family on while we. And that was not like some people that I, know of that may have raised your family on world meat, but they didn't always get that meat legally.

But we got it legally.

Rob Moore: In terms of fishing here, better back.

Lester Crocker: oh. Much better. Fishing was much better than those early years. And this century. And, At the present time was almost a thing of the past in this particular area.

Rob Moore: Because it was, more water. You know, what they what is cause of decline here in India?

Lester Crocker: There are a number of things.

of course, I suppose the fishing pressure has something to do with it, but,

the thing I believe that, Has contributed to the fact that there is so little, fishing and and war in the area is, is that the, the headwaters of the streams where they originate? And have mostly all been logged off, and there is nothing to hold back the moisture in the spring, or late winter, when the snow was going off, where it just goes off with a rush, and then the streams get high and flood the areas below.

And then in the summertime, when it begins to get warm, weather dry up, you just no place for them to just trudge. You know it can't live in warm water and I think that probably is the. Is the main thing that has caused a decline in, fish population.

On the other hand, so far as big game is concerned, sometimes that logging helps because the thinner the timber and more brush grows for the branching. it just, you know, we lose the fish and maybe we gain a little. Well, game.

Rob Moore: We'll do. We're used to go out fishing pretty often.

Lester Crocker: Every chance I got. I, I always enjoyed fishing and. Of course, when I was just a youngster growing up, there was no limit on. No bag limit at all on fish. Is trained for life. A little pan panfish and on a small small trout. And in the spring of the year, of course, when the steelhead run was on, actually, the the trout that would catch all of these streams are just young steelhead per hour, or rather, actually they're ocean going rainbows because when they become a certain age, rather they migrate downstream and eventually wind up in the ocean.

And then when they're, proper age to spawn, well, then they come back up to the place where they were, or they respond and, And of course, smaller fish come back to, quite a bit with, well, you know, the steelhead is, classified as a, trout when it's under 20in long over that lines of steelhead or oceangoing rainbow.

so if you go fishing and, fishing for steelhead and you catch one under 20in long, or 20in or under, and the transition is still only openly being buggered as a trout the over that while the steelhead.

Rob Moore: Only fish around you would you would you most of the fishes. Little feeder creeks that come in to the river.

Lester Crocker: Well this Potlatch creek and all the branches, even the small feeder streams in those days were alive was small trout. I say they're less of a small shot. They also had had, larger trout too many times. I can remember my dad telling about going out to Charlie Creek to my sister and I up in the park area.

You know, our park is. You know, our park is. And, there was a road that went down across the potlatch, and there used to be an old prospect, and they called, I had it right on to my tongue, but I can't think of the name of the mine. I can't think what the name of it was not.

But anyhow, it never, never developed because they never found anything worthwhile. But anyhow, this road went down across the potlatch and came back on, on the Texas Ridge side. And, he took a team and, took the family down there. And we camped for 3 or 4 days. And he told me many times about, the fish that caught, well, you know, a 17 18in trout.

Of course, sometimes the year you can't do that because, the, the, rainbow is a very, extremely migratory fish. They, they move around a lot. In the time we're can go up and catch a nice big, a good, good sized trout, rainbow trout, maybe everything from, ten inches up to 14. And, you lose a lot of them too and think, well, I'll go back next week and maybe have another good basket full and go back next week and never see one because they migrated and have gone downstream seeing.

Rob Moore: Your part of main occupation was is a blacksmith.

Lester Crocker: The blacksmith? Yes, but he came west in 1892.

That's my father, who moved in 1892. He came as a carriage maker and carriage painter, and he went to work in a blacksmith shop that was owned by, the name of Lester Kamin. Yeah. Or am I any believe? And, he went to work for him as a carriage maker. Repairer. of vehicles and. Gradually worked into the blacksmithing business or shoeing tire setting and all that sort of thing.

He wasn't a large man, but I, premium handle horses. It was just you get the hind foot up and then just lay over on him. And he was carrying about a fourth of that horse. While I was sure who.

He retired. Oh, I think he must have been. Amish 70s when he retired from the blacksmith shop. And. And then started a little gun shop.

Unknown: I got it at our home down there.

Lester Crocker: And then later.

After a few years, he.

Well, his health got so he he couldn't do much of anything. If that up.

Rob Moore: And. Was it, was it pretty hard to, Are you continuing the blacksmith trade after the advent of, cars?

Lester Crocker: No, I didn't quite get the question.

Rob Moore: Oh, it was very hard for him to continue in the blacksmith trade after after automobiles payments.

Lester Crocker: Oh, yeah. Of course, automobiles and trucks and all those came into use were some of the heavy horses and also the, like, driving horses just disappeared naturally because people started running gasoline. As to the headwaters and,

It, kind of fizzled out. But now in some areas and there's some I know, saddle horses and many saddle clubs that there's quite a demand for horseshoes.

So. Things have really changed.

Rob Moore: And did you ever work with your dad like, sure.

Lester Crocker: I, I worked with him some just, and, summertime, you know, during vacation from school. I helped him a good deal. And, wagon work.

Was studying other repair jobs. you know, they had breakdowns on the wagons. Like to breakdowns of the cars.

Maybe a team would run away and smash things up. Get the repair work done.

Rob Moore: Runaways and pretty common, recruit runaways.

Lester Crocker: Oh, yeah, I can remember from. I've been in a couple of. When you were driving, I know, when I was just a youngster. One I can remember. One of my uncles wasn't on the team when he went in the store. Left me in the wagon or something. Scared the team that took over the street or the trailer.

That's just flat. And I was hanging on. Somebody runs down and got a whole the whole ride arrangement. After a little tussle, I got him stuff.

Rob Moore: well, brother, you know there'll be more water in everything. There was with the with the seasons also different. We had had just one of two things were, Well.

Lester Crocker: mostly the fact that, we don't have the snowfall we used to have.

We I think we have generally up for an off year like this. I believe we have as much rainfall, as much moisture over them over a year, probably, as we as we ever did. But, That, snowfall in the wintertime. Makes a lot of difference. We, you know, we don't have the snowfall. One of the days, which now we do have was off of the Russian.

It doesn't, doesn't go into the ground like it should. You know, deep snow, wide, kind of melts from the top where no one goes down. A lot of that goes into the ground. Hum.

Rob Moore: In the winter, when the ground was snowy and where season was on and the kids didn't have too much to do, I wouldn't think that. What kind of stuff would they do for, entertainment.

Lester Crocker: When the snow?

Rob Moore: Well, when winter was here.

Lester Crocker: In those, in those days when I was a youngster growing up here, I think we spent, the most of our leisure time when we weren't in school on the winter time sledding. I mean, coasting and skating because the streams froze up. there were times when when you would start down the lawn to down here and skate higher up this river for several miles, except for some places.

And, where the rapids where you had to kind of work around and be a little still cooler would be just wonderful skating below the rapids. You used to do that sometimes just, you know, just to get up the river. Would come back and then, nothing there. The river, quite a number of the deep pools alone, right close to down here that froze over in the winter time.

And, I know that there were times when the ice would be a foot thick. And, during those times, of course, there were more days before the days of refrigerators, freezers and all that sort of thing. Why? people made a business of going up and cutting ice and storing it away in what we call ice houses and and sawdust, you know, to, stick it in there and have sawdust between the tiers and, and stuff it last all summer, you know, some in the bottom of the pile and still be there in the fall through.

and people would.

Buy ice from you people who were in the business and. Have a cold drink. And the hot summer day.

Rob Moore: Was they keep it. People bought the ice crystals. Would they have would have a little, like a little miniature ice house to keep the. You know.

Lester Crocker: I usually had. Or somewhere to keep it for maybe a day or two, you know, just get what they needed to move it by just whatever, whatever you wanted and take a ice pick and just cut off what you want. cover the other piece up and leave it there or somebody else, and then money, some ice.

Was on the way. We could have ice cream in those days. And the old timers to get a big chunk of ice. She put it in the Johnny shack and town, about to make make crushed ice on them, and then turn the crank on the freezer or the ice or on the ground. They put it in and add a little rock salt to turn the crank and deliver.

And against the that you couldn't turn it anymore. And and it was down to start eating ice cream.

Rob Moore: Right. We still do that sometimes that's I can't say that that's the only way we eat ice cream, but we do use it.

Lester Crocker: We are dealt with a lot better one a little better than, kind of my,

Rob Moore: When you go when you. Go on the on the the fishing trips or skating groups or hunting trips or whatever. Did you, would you go out and camp out for a few days and just make a long trip over it? Well, we do afternoons or what.

Lester Crocker: We used to when we went fishing, we'd well stay for a few days. In fact, when I was a kid was some, some, chums and I would oftentimes take a bicycle and, take our bicycle as far as we could ride them off to the creek. And then we became the place where the where the road left the creek and went up on top of the ridge where we'd catch a bicycle and or brush and then take our packs on our back and hike up the curriculum and.

Rob Moore: The.

Lester Crocker: Sections of Linda.

Rob Moore: Of which creek?

Lester Crocker: Well, the Potlatch Creek. I'm talking about Norman. Fisher's Linda. And then.

You know, in case of rain or anything, just, cut some holes and and spread miles over. Bread bars or, to shut the water off if it rained. then got some more bars to put under our beds, and we just have probably just have a blanket, sleep in our clothes.

Rob Moore: Did you did you ever have to use, smoked fish and stuff to bring it back down to it to use later?

Lester Crocker: No, we when we went up that way. Well, we just eat what we call it right there. And, sometimes, later when we went way back, we took a team and back back in the way we caught more fish and we could use and, and, and, take a lot of salt with us from there when figuring that if we got any, we'd solve them and bring them back.

But I never did work out too well for me because I. I never did like salt fish. And, it is. They're not so good anymore. If you keep them for a few days, and even if they are salted. Fact I don't like these trout retention until after they're there, so I don't want them at all. I just I'd rather have Weller.

They're real fresh and refreshing of the kind of curl up in the pan when you put them on the stove.

And they're good.

Rob Moore: You told me last time we talked about the. But something about time when you were a, real mail carrier out here.

Lester Crocker: Oh, yes. I carry the mail from about.

21 to about five years on American Road. That was at that time. That was. They called it rod number one. And then there was another round, number two that went up on the bridge area toward Duryea. Not that way. But, later, after I gave up the mail job, they got to combine the two. And, at the same time, they improved the roads and changed the road so that they could use automobiles the year round.

You know, and, and when I was going in. The roads were some of them were gravel and some of them were still just dirt roads. And the snow got so deep lots of times that I couldn't get around with the team. But now, since they use motorized equipment while the, highway districts get out there early and plow the road so they can get around, you know, they they didn't have it didn't have that, equipment to clean the roads up that way.

Then of course, it wasn't really that necessary. Unless it was unless the road just completely blocked or too much snow or they they use sledge sleds. Anyhow, the team did well through it a few times. By then the road was kind of broken so you could.

Unknown: Get over it. All right.

Lester Crocker: I did have a few little accidents. You. I never had a runaway, but I, I had a. Couple of experiences with drifting snow where we had, I had to drive a team up from church. but his field, because it cut through, over a ridge, because it would be filled up with snow and you couldn't deal with the road was anyhow.

And, maybe when you try to get back on the roadway, when the horses slip over the edge, and then it won't be done. The rig halfway tipped over and I had to get, scoop shovel between and shovel out a lot of snow before I could get the team or the rig up. Owners up reiterated again so I could go.

Rob Moore: But the whole time you were carrying the mail, you were using a team in the.

Lester Crocker: Winter, wintertime.

Rob Moore: And how about in the time between.

Lester Crocker: Well, in the summertime, I put the team out in the pasture, run across, you know, in some these closed places up here on the bench, closed down so that I did have the the more I could go out and get them. Get up early in the morning and go out and catch my team and bring them in and hook up and go go to the post office.

Rob Moore: And what would you need in for the summer? what would you need them for in the summer?

Lester Crocker: Well, and if it, if we had a storm, the heavy rain, you know, the road would get some muddy that I couldn't get her out of the car, so I'd have to catch them up.

Rob Moore: Do you usually manage through most of the time? By part. It's usually managing it through most of the time.

Lester Crocker: Oh, yeah. Most of the time. there were a few times I didn't make it clear. But for them, there. So wanted to on up so I can get her on.

Rob Moore: How was it? Climb those ridges during. During bad weather?

Lester Crocker: How was.

Rob Moore: I? There was a pretty hard pull. Climb those ridges, wouldn't it?

Lester Crocker: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there's there was then, especially if it was muddy. And of course, if you, shut this thing off a.