Latah County Oral History Collection

This interview with Frank Herzog was recorded at his home in Harvard on July 18th, 1975. The interviewer was Sam Schrager. The poor sound quality on side A of this tape was corrected for the remainder of the interview.

Frank Herzog: What?

Oh.

No. I don't know what you really wanna know about that.

Sam Schrager: Well, where did you track? Mostly. Where?

Frank Herzog: Right, right. Okay. Not hard, but.

We tracked muskrat and the file. I didn't know that the. the fact that they come out for good.

Or last, but that my father tracked there all the time. I was here burning the. Last year, my brother and I was going to school here, along with a program that be proud of.

That year they paid $10 bounty. The their. we had. Four. Right. And then one year old had to bear. we got it in, spring. we figured that if you to keep the bounty on them. So then we the first draft, you've got them in the spring when the fur was good. See?

But then you broke. Bad deal.

Sam Schrager: Oh, a hundred bucks. Sounds like, 100 bucks. Sounds like a lot of money, then, For scoop kids, any.

Frank Herzog: He was.

You know, we didn't want to track him on the first.

Well, number of the killings stock, I guess, in places I'd never eaten. They put bounty.

Unknown: You know, with a head of.

I don't know.

Frank Herzog: If you were in there. But it's really the way the game commission could take a coyote from up there to kill all the deer. And now.

I'm had brains enough to know what. Just like they. They. I investigate this, and I found out that I think they.

This year they found 14 or 14 elk has been killed and then buried them for 12. And they found the same thing, right? You.

Why? And what is a bear? Like on a run to fit me?

Oh, well, at that time, you know, the was but the heart. There was no.

More correct. Through through anything like that. Everything was fine. So then guns recovered and then, you know, would be a lot of them over to get to the war era and get rid of them. When get them and take them out the woods and kill you. And for Kyle, they.

And right wait for the coyotes. Got more number.

You know a lot. Magpies buzzing. I used to call them turkey buzzard.

And we couldn't say to track folks. what you can see. Did you get named Pine and the firm up the trails from the name to it? And it may look like a minute.

Unknown: In the tree.

Frank Herzog: Oh, record. I own five, and I was.

And the towns. And in the winter time, I wait until they got the word in or grew it. And then. And it started snowing real hard. Go. You said you trapped in the trail and brush. You know you got the back of you birds out to try to push a free and, snow. Cover the thing up natural.

And the next morning, you. There's a lot of.

Sam Schrager: When you see the trail. You mean a walking trail or animal trail.

Frank Herzog: And I to me, you take your horse out into it. You put it all the way through on the 33 and 34.

Crisscross.

Sam Schrager: I always had the idea the coyotes, or at least some of them are pretty wily, pretty smart animals. Is that truth?

Frank Herzog: You think there really is? After you draft more while. All right, now. I could go out and trap coyotes that haven't been trap see around here for years. I could go out and catch them right near.

But. After a bit, when they seen those other tiles, you know, trap. And then they get wise. Dirty fox. Yeah. I've had I had a threat set in the snow in the trail. I had the coyote walk up to the pack and, you know. But see, there's no need to go around.

But when you set a trap, if you had the set, naturally you and. You dig a hole in the ground and set to trap them. So level would be trail covered with whatever is around there. So I know sure. And. You got to know. Not through. It doesn't. You're not going to get no coyote.

And then other stuff. Okay. But. And then the trail. Where they go down and the drawn up. You set the trap on the inside and catch a moon? No coming in. If the going up that you know I'm the trail manager. Try to get the nose to the ground.

The.

Sam Schrager: Lose bait in with what? What would you bait the traps.

Frank Herzog: You know, a trail set, maybe. And they didn't. Because you can. You can use fan and go to try to. Good in the creeks and fish for the man in the bottle. And up in the third row. And, you know, knock it out when you know the coyote in that. Yeah, but he couldn't have.

no affair or you or anything. You can or something. Just roll. And what made the you come.

Unknown: In the whole point?

Over.

Frank Herzog: On the that in there to them and then a rat and all that friendly. And you can put a few in a sack and, and or whatever trap we may trout hang them up in the tree, you know, up to a mile and move from right to it. I read that where it was grass. And then we went.

We set a trap. We used a piece of old or meat or. And a little honey. And other than. That and they can.

Only find a brush file or something. And where they can part in a V-shaped, you know, and the world is, are some and and but the can't and then that. And never end but one that was hard to track. He'd come up and work for under the trap and set it up on the side. When they and, drive the second time he did it live, I took one trap up.

The next trap ahead said I took it up and brought it back. And I. Set one trap real good so he couldn't see it with this knife. And the other one. I said it right in front of it and said it so he could see it. He'd see it with the track back. Nobody comes up with this one up there.

There's no. And find the right legs.

You.

Know, through that. And he had two dogs off. He'd been tracked before.

Somebody had caught him and. Probably set the trap for all. We just stick sharp sticks up around them. The track. I put the foot, I wouldn't step on them. Sharp sticks them. A nice, smooth life. That we are. Yeah. It's a trap. Is that right? The big trigger hook goes over the John. Okay. And then meet the pan.

And you both turn that around the opposite direction. So. And he comes in here and he gets on that trigger. Throw it further up there. He never. Then that's what somebody said. Track that right through. He's further. It got to go.

The other way. All it is is the John the pan and. He found the.

You know, we had the.

Edge right. They say come here. The bear people say that they not know what they're talking about. And the the red yellow dog part, part in the. And he said, the good, the bad lord, he does not know in front of me or go in the fact he can go right around there and the trap and this, this we got there.

Is an open hillside. You got loose. That's the club we always first. And the, three that big around probably ten, 12ft long. But the Catherine but long for. So you can follow that way to come. Somebody get. Oh, no. Yeah. This there got that fog. You can put down that open hillside. No. You did see where the black the other three go.

Right where that trap. I'm one from the foot. You run that there. And then move. And then climb a tree. I'm up, up three and be up there on the limb with that. Neat. Correct. but put in that farm now.

Sam Schrager: And, you got the trap chain down there, don't you? How do you how do they get the how they get the trap out to move way?

Frank Herzog: I don't know, I didn't see you climb it, but the I don't know is you put it in the,

And there or very.

Hot mud. and it kind of go in one direction. And that there. I've had them run that fog around the tree like that. And they can come around this way, come back around this point. We got those right? No, they right there or you go that way.

Unknown: Or we think the home.

Sam Schrager: Did you wait. Did you change the trap like around the tree. Did you put was there a chain on the trap to hold it there so we couldn't move?

Frank Herzog: Well and do and you that probably as you folks know for you and they they didn't said there wasn't where you had your trap set. You just ruined everything. Tear it all down. All right. You put a clog on and get in here, take off and kill him and bring your trap back and said.

Okay, you know what I do? That they come. No. Are you talking about the chain that they came in on their trap?

Three feet came where this horrible and that another that big around.

And put it on the three of you. You can't put that ring over it. Let three in. Right in a big way. We can't get very impactful over. The main on that one. So they won't come another.

Sam Schrager: How often would you check the traps? Those bear traps every day.

Frank Herzog: oh. The is in fact, they're never going to shoot one right there. You.

If you come in at three cornered.

By the somebody out that had the time to go and look at them like.

Kill them every Tuesday and then. When coyote to your clothes. We make muskrat traps. Check every day.

Sam Schrager: What would one of those bears if he'd been in a trap for a few days? When you got out there to him, would he still be, alive and mad? Yeah.

Frank Herzog: I remember the year, and.

Sam Schrager: I read they. Would they be furious? Would they be mad?

Frank Herzog: Some. But the most, all I think about. Yeah. What? We caught one, and he hung up beside him, and the yellow, you know, find more info that they did not know, but that there are, there are. And mad he grabbed in the nuts and. Right. You got a lot of you done that. Yeah. No. The people have.

Burned in for.

for all I need. I need that bear. You never carry the gun. You had that, like, for, like, a pack it carrying the club about and 12ft long and killing more than them over the head.

More, too. Very many deer in this country. That time.

And it's up on you to see a deer.

Or it's a bunch of mule deer up on go. You know, we had fun and.

Unknown: You know, and reform.

And was.

Frank Herzog: No season.

And, oh.

To see.

That that. I didn't that but I like.

There was quite a few people correct. Kyle. There. They kept them, you know, go and there wasn't. So think that now. And then Kyle to for the. Father in the name.

Sam Schrager: Did you have places that you set and reset the same bear trap? Was there special places where you you picked out for, or would you move them around.

Frank Herzog: For them but in the same place? Nothing bothered me.

You see, it?

There. Traveled around to the country.

every so often I got a tree that the mark and then it by a road bond. Every bear comes along. Or that. And the device to that. You can follow it, to record sets and tracks from that row fit for.

I saw up here on Hudson the Vine. Or there was a bear. the tree was all marked up for the band, Mark. And that right there was one. And read that. You know, I'd take three tall, and I had to reach up by that and touch it where he didn't. So that never did come of tree. I know in time to find.

But because of all of that. The help they gave me was.

another thing they do here. Every once in a while, somebody around the country, you know, walk.

Sam Schrager: Away. You know, wolves in this country.

Frank Herzog: And just that big overgrown. Oh. We caught one that many over five feet.

fell on it. You know, these fur houses, they used to have grades extra large, large, medium and small. And their. This used to be lot, and that the only high we ever got that we got extra large or.

And big overgrown. I didn't like anything else.

So,

You did a month. That was you. And they said, it was hanging up in the meat market. The.

I said it right. 498.

And they looked at like, you know. They knew.

But that.

You know, from dark brown.

And and everything is something like that, you know, and you do a three dog.

Sam Schrager: How much trapping did you do when you were a kid?

Frank Herzog: I regret it every winter when the first be.

Sam Schrager: Did you father teach you that? How you learned from your. From your father? Did he teach you boys how to do it? What did your father teach you boys? How to do it? Oh, yeah.

The deer.

Frank Herzog: In.

trap. And then click experience. Who you trap? The more you learn it. Like anything you.

I still got. Three married to. I was all for 35. No peace for.

Unknown: Me. I don't think you can. But now.

Frank Herzog: You know, I sold a whole bunch.

in fact, what? What good. that what? That bear.

Yard ornament. I hanging up on the fence. Yeah, right. So.

Sam Schrager: Do you remember. Do you remember how old you were when you started going out with your father and looking at the traps?

Unknown: No other.

Frank Herzog: 12, 14 years old. The year.

Sam Schrager: You think the the blood bothered at first, and then the animals being trap you that they get used to.

Unknown: You know what?

That that.

Frank Herzog: You said blood.

Sam Schrager: Yeah. Just when you. As a kid, I was thinking. And just a little kid going out and.

Frank Herzog: From. I think I think the was one big problem. He couldn't be around. Were you butchering a hog or be in the. He had blood. You get the bigger out this.

Year and.

Sam Schrager: Did you just leave the meat? Well, most of the time. Or, did the people want it? And the people eat the meat or just leave it? Yeah.

Frank Herzog: And, Or go to town. Go iron or sometime take the sirloin.

Meat and the B eight. You.

Sam Schrager: Did you say. Did you think there was much luck involved in that? In in trapping? Or was it just the skill with knowing where to put.

Frank Herzog: No luck. Whatever. No skill or no experience.

In.

Luck. Very.

Good. By trapping me.

No. No less. Saying he leave around that trap. And the more you know how to set that. The more made clear for the kids. And, move at set up. You know, if they didn't set right and if they can set. In the water that didn't freeze. And cover the trap of water so we don't go over your trap and also get in the water and splash your whole set with water and then kill.

And you keep and try to, well, with a full product like that. And so you go to a trap, bring over the well, take it down in the water so. And on guard in your water and get down in them. Trap roughly.

Otherwise I may come to the front of.

The the trap. Anyway. Time you could feel.

Sam Schrager: Did you do good trap and make sure. Was there a lot of make or.

Frank Herzog: I wouldn't say a lot, but Lord, quite a few.

The more you tried that either. Yes. And God first started it and wanted it quite a lot. And there was no beaver really? for.

An old cat. Before we got.

Sam Schrager: Over. I say, there was there was guys in here trapping before the golden gold miners even came.

Frank Herzog: Yeah.

Sam Schrager: I suppose beaver was what they were looking for more than anything else. Yeah.

Frank Herzog: Oh, they had everything that goes with it.

And clean out the beaver.

That's another thing in the game. Me from the rotten. Then they let the trappers go away. Back up in the crates and trap so beaver out. It should be that long. One down here doing damage with that. So I think. Way back in the hills and. I used to be quite a lot of beaver back up, you know.

But then getting them all, one down and what good.

Sam Schrager: Do the beavers do back there? You know, I.

Frank Herzog: Hold the water back from the summertime and, you know, open water, you know, and then of control. Pretty good food. The fish.

All and and like that. Yeah. And there I work on the forest in that. And then up on the east for for the pot. But I.

Am the beaver and put in the dam and then for the trail, you know, frame.

All right. So it, it pretty hard to move that trail because the hill was deep rocky and we thought we carried Beaver Dam out.

Right there. That dam I know it's worth two.

We got in that or at all out. And lake more than build up. Yeah. Right. Yeah. For very. I hope you get out there and bask a stake in the roof over here.

Sam Schrager: And the boys do.

Frank Herzog: It like it. Then nobody said. Yeah, that up again. But it up.

And.

Sam Schrager: What about Cougar? Frank? You run into them at all.

Frank Herzog: You know, I've been around. Was I cried a lot. I was working in the woods, and. But in the early days, there was. Very few Hoover and. It would be for a lot of good for taking.

You know, was quite a few people around. And how. They run there and.

Oh. Used to trap Lake with quite a lot of. And then and, I don't think there's one.

Every once in a while, we get one or big Lake in a bear trap.

And.

We didn't want to come there for her. Was, the money? Is it? So with the lake would be broke?

You only had a 14 steak and fed with her neck and pinned them down and killed his job, and then they got money. Go. Get the jacket and just the tendons and hide the whole, you know.

Sam Schrager: Did you ever catch any of those ones again? The ones you cut one leg off later? No.

Frank Herzog: I don't know what they did know.

It 41. Know I have. I have got several coils and one I draw for.

So I don't feel I like to.

Sam Schrager: You think there's more game now than there was in there? Was it or less?

Frank Herzog: Well, a lot more elbow deer. I don't know what. In fact, then what they tell. There was a few deer scattered around, but now is.

A few years ago, you lot the deer around here.

Are winter and coyote.

Here is the idea. A coyote and the thing that we have on in the winter time. Except in this country, except in game.

what game is the bird and. Pheasant. Grouse and deer? No. Rabbit. I mean, in red. There was lots of rabbit. They were gray from red with. They're killing deer in the winter. I thought they live in that.

You take in that deep snow, especially if there's a little crust on. And they get there and you roll through the crust, and then you cut. You know, if I didn't grow it down and then chew his arms out while he's still alive and then go and do the same thing, you know. killed several deer drug with them down into the road with their hands down.

You know, you can't poison them.

Or put a bounty on. It they go and put a bounty on them while I grew up. Trap myself. Back in the summertime. You know, this winter. Trapping without a bait. It's kind of tough. In fact, it's snowed in and frozen and. Everything. Yeah. In the summertime, I. Make crispy bacon for a while. For. The water.

Sam Schrager: These guys that, they use house hunting with that is mostly for sport. Or they probably. I mean, they didn't get, like, the quality that you could get trapping crazy with hounds.

Frank Herzog: And, they don't seem to be.

So thick that the roots are more foxy in round. but they can get where the hounds would run and one and, and they could shoot it. And go over and take out you. I don't think you can't hurt.

you. A year or so ago, the federal outfit that head hounds down there, Prince.

And with the chasing coyotes. But I know that they didn't have much success but a while, and. Yeah.

Sam Schrager: Did you do that when you were when you were traveling? Did you use hounds, too?

Frank Herzog: I mean, they referred.

Sam Schrager: Where do you. Where did your father pick it up? The trapping. You know how he learned?

Frank Herzog: It started out in Pennsylvania.

And run track. And then when?

And then it came out here and.

Here. this is getting to be quite a few wildcat around here now. And, you know, I don't know for sure, but I believe that the late kill the wildcat because the Rocky. You know, we got the wildcat and the track and line.

And Coon was a son of a from in this country. And,

Unknown: I know, I know.

Well.

Sam Schrager: Would you say that your father, he was one of the main trappers in this country when he was here.

Frank Herzog: Well. I guess so. And but he didn't. Just make a business draft. He bought and bought some. You know. An environment. Or if in the winter time or not, much to do on the farm. But we try.

I don't I don't know anybody with in this country that just made a business trip that.

Sam Schrager: We would you quit it. And when a spring come along. We.

Frank Herzog: And for the fur got no good. Yeah. I reckon you cat bring to bear when they come out.

Sam Schrager: I've heard that you're that your father was, pretty tough guy. That he's a strong guy.

Frank Herzog: Yeah, and big man and.

Hard worker.

And.

Take anything off anybody going around looking for trouble?

Yeah.

Sam Schrager: Somebody mentioned to me that I think maybe it was Glenn mentioned here that he. He cut his tail off.

Frank Herzog: Kind of. What?

Sam Schrager: He cut his toe off.

Frank Herzog: So we were up here on the farm registration. Oh. Trees and brush and start to clear up land. You know, over bird. ax riots and tried to throw one, two. And he took it. He was not dead. He put it back. And what? The word. It's a bone steak, you know, that bothered. So my brother down to the house after a pair of these side cut and wire clippers, you know, and he brought it back, and he took that and cut that bone or clipped that bone off, so it went stick up.

But he still.

He.

Knew the way.

I right. There. And. I thought I really hit that bone he never can't borrow. And then for future fires and yank it out. And then he ended up.

Unknown: Oh, no.

Frank Herzog: One fell from something like that. And you didn't run.

Sam Schrager: To the doc?

Where was your place? Where you live, then?

Frank Herzog: You've been up the road here.

Sam Schrager: Yeah, yeah. You know, here.

Frank Herzog: You know, there's a barn sits right on the lower side of the road. Yeah. Go over the hill. I rebuilt that barn. Now you can think in. And I put two shakes on this side. Oh, here. but it still doesn't make.

Unknown: And my brother and I, all of.

Frank Herzog: Those fake medical.

Oil and coal.

City girl. You know.

And we figure there now. What? Oh, great. Big feet.

House stood on the upper side of the road and long path you built. When we come, you belong. You. Oh. I did right. So you know. Going to have them.

Sam Schrager: When? When we did, he come out here?

Frank Herzog: William and Bruce, 19 100.

Unknown: family by you.

Frank Herzog: You know, and then gave us ownership a.

Year and a half or two years old from. born in Pennsylvania.

Sam Schrager: They he know about this place from back there, or did he just find it? When? You know what? Here.

Frank Herzog: Well, he came out the year. The year before we moved out. Came out here and he worked in the hayfields up here. And. It was having rheumatism real bad. And I just loved this store named the James Farmer.

So you came out here in a look around the year before and. And work in the hay for you and. You had the feeling real good. And we decided to be right back and and make every move that.

You know, when we came here, the. No. Harm. No part. I nor any.

Room.

At all. County road. Dirt.

A trip. More than ten foot and singular. The hoof and a cane wagon and. Was a flour mill. And, And run the water. If they said the ground. We'd get a couple barrels of flour.

You can feed.

The $2 or $2 and a half or 100 pounds of flour.

Very. To be put in cotton thatch, you know, and. And then 250 pound bags in a good.

Sam Schrager: We you grow and we to at the time and on your place. Did you have any wheat to take down there.

Frank Herzog: No. Not nothin. They moved the hay and cattle. At that time was very little grain ready? Yes. Right. Around heavy. The timber. Then go over hay. You've got to do with the many horses. And they can't train horses. No, Logan can you tell the hay?

Grain sheep. We at that time the farmers got $0.50 a bushel for the wheat they got they getting a big price.

Sam Schrager: For the. You. You grew up right by Glenn, right by Glenn Gilder. That right. And that's where Glenn Miller grew up, too, right? Right. Neighbor too, you know.

Frank Herzog: Right there in. The one over on the hill, there was.

Sam Schrager: You think your father had to work real hard to get by here? In them early days?

Frank Herzog: Everybody did home to him and all the rest.

He worked out in the logging camps and here. And.

Ten hours a day.

I am not sure now or the week before. I know he was, you know, a dollar and a few dollars a day.

You real good with that? Friday. You shoot 2000. Shoot.

And then you did timber for barn.

You buy.

I mean, they got there was done that in two and a half days. Then. But the. Starting in the eight hours and.

And both houses. Around here. And these old go. I told you about them over in camped before a did about

Sam Schrager: He told me a little bit about them. He said they're a pretty lousy. Yeah.

Frank Herzog: Just a big log shack. You're a big stove in the middle of the shack? No, for them. Pile of straw to sleep on.

Broke my dad. He didn't, did it? And then. Yeah, he. He got back and forth home.

Unknown: And go to work.

Frank Herzog: You know.

Sam Schrager: I heard about those camps in the Midwest, Minnesota, Wisconsin being really tough places where, you know, guys, you get drink in and they fight and to get knocked down and get it with the other guy, give it to him was cop boots, you know, was there bunch of that around here?

Frank Herzog: Not too much. They didn't. Know most of that was down in town. That the saloons.

Okay, then. so much trouble. I think. Too much work and too tired. Good.

And.

Do that kind of stuff.

yet in town and boy. And then it was a lot of stuff going on.

I've even seen that.

and. Right in. 23. 24 and that and khaki up. Yeah. They used to be a wild place.

Sam Schrager: I've heard they didn't get. They did, have prohibition there. Just about in Clark. Yeah.

Frank Herzog: That's right. Wide open. That was it. Seven moonshine right over the counter.

In the barn. And it.

Yeah. Every weekend. And I come into one of those camps is the the girl from fight. the five.

Sam Schrager: Would a fight be over anything or just over being drunk?

Frank Herzog: Would get no arguments. And then at one end up in the fight. And some, I did go around lock up for.

Him. Which is the best man.

On the beat. But I think the best man in the country. The name with out.

Any crime? He went and spoke and cleaned up all the pubs and program to the back alley.

Sam Schrager: Did you think he fought much around here? Did he have to fight to prove it then? He was tough.

Frank Herzog: But much of it around here from, you know, they never dry up in here. No, no, I don't like that.

Little court thing. In the early days, when the saloon fields opened, I think he had 3 or 4 rooms and prints removed from the fighting. Go on. Down there.

Sam Schrager: Yeah. Did you know where's this was?

Frank Herzog: Down there. I see animals never around for a. Brother. I knew him well. He told me a lot about.

never acquainted with.

Sam Schrager: Your brother for he. You brought a fight. He was really the toughest man in the country down there.

Frank Herzog: Yeah, I mean, then.

Sam Schrager: What I how a guy gets a reputation like that, he must clean up on quite a few. He did it,

Frank Herzog: Yeah.

and.

You know, it's just like it was at that time in Spokane that they'd hear the the guy in town that thought he was a little better than some other bird boy. They go and look him up. You know, knock on Trent in the back alley and then go back and have it out.

Right. You know, like, I was working up there and they came between. Ball one clerk and number two guys come in there to work and be in the same bunkhouse. And that was tavern. I don't remember where that from, but they tell us how bad that damn place was and no excitement or anything.

I just let them talk for a little while and I says, well, I'll tell you guys, if you're looking for excitement, I said, to trouble I didn't you didn't go down to Clark Saturday night, says, and very far. I said, you probably find anything you want down there. By God, we went in there. So they did. They come out back Sunday, November.

They'll be looking out for. That guys. And they they all got out. I didn't hear any more of that.

And yeah, it got me.

Sam Schrager: Did they, did they, talk to you about it with you? They talk about what happened to.

Frank Herzog: You know, that they didn't never no more said about it.

Sam Schrager: I imagine there must have been. At least one good whorehouse up there. Clark.

Frank Herzog: To to,

To,

One on each side. The main street that went up and burnt down. Had a pretty big hotel on that. And say, did you cross the track and go?

but,

Sam Schrager: What about, Now, I've heard that there wasn't much drinking in the cans.

Frank Herzog: No, no.

Right. I remember so much of it. No. No, you can't load up on that stuff. And more work. You don't feel like it.

We thought of more drinking in the evening after work around the sawmill from on the road from north.

Court. And I thought that was a town. And all we got to do. You can go in a liquor store.

And.

Sam Schrager: You ever a Dick Ferrell? The guy that called lumberjack preacher. was he ever there when used in the woods?

Frank Herzog: Yeah, I remember one happened to be in the camp that he come in to, but.

no, I was.

More of the brewery in the early days. along the quarter lane and. And I didn't know for sure, but I think I've, I've heard my brother speak about, you know, their name from. And the farm.

But I never did.

Sam Schrager: It. Did you ever know that,

Frank Herzog: That lone old Pat Malone? Yeah. Big old fat. From that.

Both the big cop of the mobile and.

But Jesse was not have any.

Unknown: I knew a lot about.

Frank Herzog: Old timer fucker.

Sam Schrager: people remember bad about how, you know, people remember all the drinking used to do. And it's trying to track down finding clues to track down, cases, never catching anybody. They say that, Pat. You know, he could track and and all of that before for the snow.

Yeah.

Frank Herzog: I don't know quite a lot. And I never didn't know all. Pat, had an. Anybody ever write that in my.

Book and, my.

He could drink, get that much moonshine. And the rest of you could.

I worked in one camp, but 1919 is down from Helmer towards the large river. There.

one day is a. Coke in the front is, Oh, God. Drunk and quit.

read suspension. Something that they must have made it themselves. I'm fine. I found out all right. And here, four barrels of wine. And they have. All of you of heaven knows in the camp. And. And he was locked up so he couldn't get in there. But we went to the back shop and. And got a his camp rail cars.

You know, they didn't make a signing and run the cars in and whole bunch, you know, bunk out and cookout. And so we went back out and got, over and did ready for bed. I went down underneath that.

Coke house. And got in bore and holes through.

Do you four guys there with the water buckets? about had that. Yeah.

We got quite a lot of one. We hit one. Barrow.

Yeah.

Man. Made out of reasons. some of them drank. Some of them made them sick. I don't know, didn't of that stuff. I drink much of it.

Sam Schrager: What do you do with no cook, cook or flunkies? What do we can't do without that? To get somebody else in real fast? Yeah.

Was there were you handling anything else? When you there and watch game one poker and.

Frank Herzog: Oh, yeah, I. In that camp, there was quite a lot of them in here. The depot. And then in 1919 and there were several guys, 4 or 5 teams and making good money.

They had a pretty good poker game. They made.

Using a.

Sam Schrager: Jimbo. And did much, much,

Frank Herzog: Oh, well.

Sam Schrager: Never about Joe.

Frank Herzog: Oh.

I don't know, he.

Took. I would never around even very much that he was. I am a nice old fella, you know. And.

I worked in one of the camps for his son or, Chuck Ward. There. And? And one thing happened. The.

I'm with a guy, and, And I put all. Chuck. What else? Right side of him. They and that that the table. See, This guy, ask him that pass from thing, you know, and he says, I wouldn't pass nothing to the nigger. He says.

Well, old truck, he didn't say nothing but some other guy sitting back there. He got it and give it to me. but when I was over, when I got through. Eat. No, Chuck. He left before this guy did outside of the bunkhouse, and he went out of the cookhouse and stood there and waited for him to come out.

And then he'd come out. They, you know.

Tell me. Okay.

And that tickled everybody in camp because they're like an eight year old. Old Joe, while the. when he died, I think he had the biggest funeral I ever had. And there.

I was I never I don't know too much about him because I, I never lived in Jerry, but he did work and all that. And they came.

Sam Schrager: And that's a good story about Chuck. But I never heard that before.

Frank Herzog: She.

Sam Schrager: I've heard he was a pretty tough guy. Chuck.

Frank Herzog: oh. Yeah, I don't know at that time. I know of him getting in trouble, but it's, funny. Tell him I know he might have been in those and kind. But he was a nice guy. You know where you can find that? Well, that dried, It might have been a that, you know, all Southerners had a neighbor.

Sam Schrager: You, You didn't think too much Big Gil, did you?

Frank Herzog: for.

Sam Schrager: Big Gil as a foreman.

Frank Herzog: Or. Or. Yale was right. Oh, I don't know why, but make you think.

Sam Schrager: Because I thought when we talk the other time he said something, he was a coward.

Frank Herzog: We have. And that didn't hurt you. You know, for him, he's a good foreman. And, you know, I'll tell you one thing about, Gil, they had, a higher on there and I don't know, but, Because the High line and the trolley run and another line, he.

Had some other. And I didn't know nothing to do, was it? I was just getting what the team. I wanted to get that trolley up on the hill. I don't know why, but it was three big three. There. Athlon around with it, trying to get it up there. Oh, Gil Pippen him off. Go over there and pick it up and carried it up the hill.

no more these 350 pound.

he'd take a Peavy pick it up more than hand, spin it around soffit and a log and break the handle. Right, I love it. The one hand.

That's.

Sam Schrager: Where? In what way was a what way was he, a coward then.

Frank Herzog: You know, he and the green and another guy got a little guy got. No, no. You know, a little guy chased him out of the woods.

I didn't see it, but I heard it said Rudolph.

You wouldn't buy.

Sam Schrager: You wouldn't have five, but he'd carry a 350 pound up the hill.

Frank Herzog: Yeah, and pull up. Make the hand one hand.

Sam Schrager: Gee, that's funny.

Frank Herzog: That.

Sam Schrager: I heard he didn't talk. Hardly. He was really a quiet man.

Frank Herzog: Yeah. Never had much to say. Yeah. Walk around little.

You only had one. I. I don't know how it was designed. Maybe that you knew you and you.

Sam Schrager: How did that accident happened to you? In the. In the woods? How did that accident happened to you in the woods?

Frank Herzog: Me? Yeah. How? Who can. On a double jammer, double drum jammer?

Who did you know? And.

I guess. Turn it off. Got a whole bunch of logs piled up and then stopped, and then it's going to change the lines and go to jammer and run and make it a big racket every day. And they were then scared. And I do stand up a tree thepublic hit it and then from there, the, damn thing fell and and I didn't hear nobody.

Ernie. I had my back to it. It didn't make. No, no, I. You know, and I had.

One of those thing.

Caution. And, jammer was still around, and, I didn't. And making a noise at the trade and make no noise and. no warning.

Sam Schrager: It knocked the unconscious.

Frank Herzog: Not quite. At all. Almost. And, pulled out my mouth. Nose.

Cracked my head. Tore my back. Yeah. It hit me hard enough to bust one ankle. I had to put that knee care, and nothing touched my ankle.

Sam Schrager: Did you back take a long time, too? Did you break your back with that?

Frank Herzog: No.

On in your did. And I don't know what it.

Broke in.

Yeah. Jaw together. You know, like my neck too. Here, next to my shoulder. And then you get older. Then it showed up.

Sam Schrager: Who you think? You think Frank did that? That happened to a lot of guys in the woods. I mean, they got injuries that hurt him later.

Frank Herzog: Oh, yeah? And get banged up, and that's. It'll show up later on that they get older every time.

Sam Schrager: How long did you. Did you work in the woods around, deary in that area?

Frank Herzog: Well,

Yeah.

Well, I don't know, 1917. But.

Prior to burn, I put in a round called Phil. I work in Woods Farm, the vineyard, for several years, and then they came back down here, went to work.

I got woods and and.

My job there were. You know what? The concert. Rhode Island 65. I, I still work for another 65. I signed up for Social Security and. part of the time, I didn't get any because I made too much money.

Yeah. Well, that's been ten years ago.

I quit then my back was starting to bother bottom and, crossroads PA, at the time, I was making poles, and you raised over a human, bar call from Poland, you know, and it got to get in my bag. So I just quit and.

But another guy, I know that that we went walking on our own and, bought a little piece of timber from the state. Yeah. The care. We had to make the poles. And that and have the logs and.

I don't know if I have to staple five or not. You know, you go down.

The post.

Down.

Sam Schrager: Five, I.

Frank Herzog: Five.

we manage about $50 a day walking up the, the,

I was doing for not what?

I the chainsaw, is.

Got rid of a lot of hard work of chainsaw from the prison at all. Cross cut, and a lot of them. A whole lot.

Murders. Can't log and it it ruin. And the current. It.

And then all good horses. What they did to her then? Yeah. The young stuff. Oh, I mean, those skin trails. In hurt are very near Mosher. Very.

At low and long tree line. And they just take everything. Hope. Get a winch on the tree and everything comes in front of it.

Sam Schrager: Do you ever hear the story about, Mr. Kingman? I don't know which Kingman it was, but that was when Potlatch was first logging, and they they decked their logs on its place, and he made him pay for using this place. Do you ever hear that story? Before he let him take the logs off? Off in the place he said.

You're going to have to pay me. No.

Frank Herzog: Who was it?

Sam Schrager: Give me.

Frank Herzog: Oh.

Sam Schrager: This is when they first started logging in there.

Frank Herzog: It could happen. That. Oh, that was old man.

Sam Schrager: Yeah.

Frank Herzog: I never heard anything about it, but I did know the. He made them boom. riverbank up there when they were driving. He kept the logs. Turn the banks. The.

Sam Schrager: You remember that? That family. Oh, we were talking before it was, mentioned that family. It was, oh. There were family where the the mother was sort of crazy in there. And so they kept to themselves shops? Yeah. Yeah.

But they the.

Frank Herzog: Whole family to little bit of.

Yeah. They lived back up in the jungles here and.

it seems it they done a lot of trapping in the winter time. This young boys. Oh. Did, Only all that time they did out there was.

Oh, I don't know what you'd call it. A lot of self-consciousness or something. Yeah, you couldn't name it hard to talk. And no one you couldn't name getting to look at you.

Know the time they went out more to the. I know of a couple of, work from a brother in law. And, hey, if you.

Sam Schrager: Or you think it it was them. It was the way they felt. More than the way that, that the people felt about them. Yeah.

Frank Herzog: Oh, yeah. People didn't bother them anything.

They never bothered anybody. Better on that.

Yeah. And.

but one Mathews out in the woods and it happened to me from that. And they see it. Come and eat. Run, hide!

Sam Schrager: They have with crazy people very much like their mother did. They just stayed at home and they didn't go to an asylum or something like that.

Frank Herzog: They, they they never bothered anybody or anything. So. I guess if nobody. Put in a holler full of.

What would be a deer sending them to so. I look like somebody that's crazy. You violent or something like that? Wouldn't that boy.

No. Just one. Nothing that would come to town and get the mail. but a few groceries. If he had the money.

Oh, they had,

Few cattle.

And a very good guard up there.

And and some track. And I guess that's the way they made their.

You know what needed to be 95 years old?

I.

Got,

Sam Schrager: I was going to ask you to explain one thing that you said when I was up here before you said that corporations are ruining the country. I wonder how you mean it, that they're ruining it.

Frank Herzog: Well, they run, and they can't. You anything that they want the. Yeah. And big corporations are into everything.

Well, for it, take the big oil outfit today.

They don't.

Go.

They're not only in the oil business. They're in everything. Yeah. And if they see. See a little something that.

Sam Schrager: Might.

Frank Herzog: Harm them in a way.

Sam Schrager: Where they go and buy it.

Frank Herzog: It shouldn't be allowed to fly. this. Is shale, coal. In Wyoming and Montana. There's some other outfit. Mud. Yeah. Go right in and buy it off.

One other instance. Look, in California, when they had the street car, and all of that was in San Francisco, in a big city.

What did they do then? Went in and bought the three cars and put in busses so they would use gas. Now look at the pollution. Make up.

Yankee call that everyone comes.

Them and automobile outfit early in the have. They're all in heaven and they get to run and things.

Sam Schrager: What do you think of an outfit? Like. Like Potlatch. You think it like Potlatch helped the country more or hurt the country more?

Frank Herzog: And they had jobs. Yeah. Might be reopened.

Sam Schrager: Well, the in the early days, they they brought a lot of jobs. Right.

But they also wrecked a lot of country roads.

Frank Herzog: Yeah.

Yeah. And I'll tell you another thing about the pipelines. They are more or less in a way around than the state. And, fire, timber and stuff go on, because.

Well. I'm like, I don't know what you. Have been up the road, up the post river and hoodoos. That road put in there. But the state and gravel. Chris Rock gets the pot. And I otherwise get in and then put in.

another end in search of Helmer. They they put a good road in over across the Potlatch River and put in a big bridge and. And put on crushed rock.

And that's where the pot lives on. oh. La la la. Going over there. Got the long shelf. Otherwise.

It's no over 1 or 2 farm. And over there, though, I mean, the bend, the road over there, that was all it was for. And you can see it around Lewiston, Greenville, down in that country. They're getting all the road money.

For the pot. But it logs. Up around here and headquarters.

Brooklyn Bridge Road.

Sam Schrager: When you were in the camps, did they talk about warehousing at all? In the early days?

Frank Herzog: No.

Sam Schrager: You know, the well warehouse or the guy that, that owns, where he used to own Potlatch.

Frank Herzog: they do. Yeah. No, no, but it might be a few of the Clark Fuller. They owned a big control interest in that.

And,

And forestry. I. I can understand then why they cut in all this second growth timber.

Then move up from.

I think.

I can't remember what year it was, but I was working for Arch Kim, and, You belong in the. Yeah, the job up on Big Creek and. We went up there, and I just marked the trees that we to cut. Did.

It was quite a job, he continued, going broke. Can't get on the lookout because. They left the most of it. And then a few years later, around the turn right around and cut the whole work.

Mill and big.

Another three at that time. And we scanned up a tree from going through, I don't know, I had to fit and the lights can go out and tear everything down. And so I.

You know, by nuts getting a big, big outfit and do the same thing to know.

Sam Schrager: Did you see where, last year, I think it was that the police district said they'd have to use highly logging in some places, and they threw a fit, but I guess they didn't back down.

Frank Herzog: Yeah, they. But then. Yeah, the small part of. But now they've got it, so they'd have to do that. I read my paper and. what they did about the block, the whole work that way. But now they've gone down, so they just both belong a small part of it, that one.

Sam Schrager: Did you used to do much fishing in these creeks?

Frank Herzog: Oh, yeah, they used to be lots of fish fishing.

The kids and, the kids, the grandkids and, fishing and and, from.

Unknown: The river down.

Frank Herzog: Near the Rio, early days. And before we come here, I've heard them tell about it. You could go down that river and and sit down, take a watch W instead of a fish. You didn't want whole.

No, you can hardly find that fish enough. You know, plant or. And then fit the. caught a bunch of them one year and tidy them. You know, you pretty much.

I used to go over the years, go back. Way back on my creek. Okay, so I've cut all that cool water. It was, you know, on the good deed, right? There's so much difference.

But I've had it closed now for 2 or 3 years. And back in.

Sam Schrager: You think there's anything that we can do about the corporations?

Frank Herzog: They let them get too big. Yeah, and to be a stock to them, buying up everything. Running out all the little dogs. It should be a stop to it.

Sam Schrager: Well, I agree with you 100%.

Frank Herzog: Man.

that's what I figured. One of the troubles of this country that. Just like farm and.

You're getting to be all big farms. No one.

We're going to survive. Needs farms and. Then they claim they lose money on them. And and they don't. When they get that ordinary income tax, all kinds of schemes. There's too much crooked work going on in the country. Everything graph. crook.

Sam Schrager: Yeah. Isn't it was the same the same way when you're. Yeah. No.