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Latah County Oral History Collection

Remembering Latah County and Idaho Life at the turn of the 20th century

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Date: January 25, 1975 Interviewer: Sam Schrager

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HARRY SAMPSON: I saw Wild Davey. I was nine years old when I came here in 190..

SAM SCHRAGER: What do you remember about Wild Davey?

HS: Well, all that I remember is that as kids we were scared of him because he was kind of a recluse, I guess, you'd call him. We more or less considered him a hermit, sort of. And he had these dogs which we were afraid of too. So that he was an individual. He was eccentric. People in town here kiew of him, so he was, as I say, a character.

SS: Did you see him mostly going by on the street? Is that where you'd see him?

HS: Yeah, we'd see him d3h here. He lived right down here on White Avenue, in kind of a shack down there. And by the way, too, at that same time we had a negro family that lived right down in there. that's the first negro family that I know of that came to Moscow. And they were here before 1902, I'm sure. Clarice knows the name of the negro family because they were dark negroes.

SS: Do you know how he made a living?

HS: No, I dont. No, I don't.

SS: Did their kids go to school here?

HS: Oh yes, yes. Idon't know how many youngsters they had. I suppose she's taping there or I'd go up and ask her now. I can't remember; it wasn't a big negro family at all.

SS: We'll ask her later. Do you now if they stayed for very long?

HS: Well, as far as I know, I don't rmember tham ever leaving. buried he'e in the cemetery, as far as I know.

SS: This Wild Davey, did he have any friends in Moscow?

HS: Yes, Mr. Creighton was a^ Kooa friend of his. And I wouldn't be surprised that he saw that he had clothing to wear. And as Clarice mentioned the last time you were here that the hotel gave him food. And at that time the hotel was run by Mr. Gale whose daughter married Mrs. was a Gale.

SS: Do you have any idea why Mr. Creighton and he were friends?

HS: No, I don't.

SS: He just took an interest in the man?

HS: Yeah, evidently did. Creighton was a man that had very few friends, but he had special friends that he liked he was interested in.'Cause he was an immigrant; he was a boy from Scotland, came to the United 8tates. And in fact, as I understood it, his folks wanted to make a sinister out of him, and he didn't want to, and he over to America. And I don't know how old he was when he came here and how he happened to come to Moscow, I don't know. But I worked for Mr. Creighton from 1907 to 1910 I was going to school. And why I know he had special friends, he would send in to a liquor company and get very high grade wines and liquors and get oh, a barrel full of the stuff. And he had a little hideaway in the back of the store where like someone that he wanted to talk to secretively, and he had that barrel there. And before Christmas he would make up the packages of these different people that he was going to give those presents to. And I'm sure Wild Davey probably, was maybe one of them too. I don't know. But I know there was a banker in town; he was a special friend. And 4nm ones. I delivered some of the packages for him.

SS: So really he was the kind of man who didn't hob-nob with all the businessmen but that kept mostly certain people as friends.

HS: Yeah, he had

SS: Can you tell me—I was thinking about how he is different from Mr. David in their ways of looking at business and at life. How were they different, those two men?

HS: Well, Mr. David was a community spirited man. He was interested in the education, the spiritual life of the town, politically, in fact he could have been governor of the state if he'd wanted to run for it but he turned it down. I don't know the reason for it except that it took him away from his business or something. But Creighton, he and his wife, he had a wife that was very eccentric. And she only had a very, very few friends too. So they were that type of people.

SS: Would you say that the two men had a very different philosophy of business?

HS: Well, they got to be very competitive in years on. And I think that was one of the reasons probably that Mr. didn't want me to go down to David's because when I left there he never spoke to me for several years after I'd been down there. Even his wife wouldn't speak to me.

SS: Would you tell me about what that offer was? You said that he made you an offer when you came back to say that you were offered a job.

HS: Well, I was I think it was, twenty-fvie dollars a month. And the opening down there was due to a young fellow that was living at my mother's place. He and another fellow had a disagreement and they both quit, so they needed somebody quick. So this fellow told me, he says,"If you want the job,go down there and see Mr. David." And they were particularly interested in someone that could understand the Scandinavian people because this county was probably sixty per cent Scandinavian. So I went down there, and I just got the job that quick. So I went back and told Creighton about it and at first he just kinda blew up and wouldn't say anything. And I gave him plenty of time before I went down to David's. So around and he says,"Will you stay if I boost your salary?" Well, he boosted up to, I think it was thirty-five or forty dollars a month. And I had to tell I said, "My offer down there is better than that, and Ianad already accepted the job so I couldn't refuse it. I was of that nature. At the same time I Ml an offer from who run a bookstore, and he offered me the same amount but I decided to go to David's

SS: I wanted to ask you about your mother's boarding house too. About how that worked and what it was like.

HS: Well, after my father passaci away, in 1907, I think it was. He left her insurance, and she was advised to use that insurance to buy a home, she'd have a place because we were renting at that time. We had sold the home that we had built in 1902. So that was for sale and we bought it back. There were four of us youngsters, and I was the oldest at the time, in order to keep the family together, why she decided to run a boarding house for students, which she did. And in order to do it,we had three bedroomAupstairs and one down and a parlor. And she turned the parlor into a bedroom, so that gave her four rooms for students. Well, she had about six to eight students, they slept in room. And she was a wonderful And she'd board, and roomed them for twenty dollars month. And she set a very good table; they all liked her food. Well, that left it pretty tough for us for sleeping quarters. So my brother and I, we slept in the dining room in a pull-down bed which we had to put up every morning so they'd have enough room to eat around a big dining room table. Then as far as the toilet , of course we had an outhouse. That was the only thing we had there; the old outhouse with a crescent over the door and a Sears and Roebuck catalogue.which, had to be moved about every year or so. water supply, we had to drill our own

SS: Did Mr. Creighton ever mention to you about his getting shot by Steffens?

HS: Not that I knew of, but I knew of the incident. Because we came here the spring after all this happened. So it was,I knew that Creighton was walking down the street and Steffens took a shot at him and he was on Steffen's list. Creighton and Watkins, Dr. Watkins and seems to me the sheriff.

SS: I think Jolly was on his list and also Held.

HS: August Held was on the list.

SS: What was the talk when you came about what had happened? Did they have any motivation for Steffens going after Watkins?

HS: I really don't know. He was a little off balanced but he did have a grudge against Doc Watkins alright. For some reason or another. I don't know whether it was because of some medical reason or what.

SS: From what you heard, did Steffens have a history of being unbalanced?

HS: Evidently he showed some peculiarity because the,when he went on this rampage, he went on horseback. And as soon as it was all over, why he should go back to his mother's home, he was living with his mother, I don't know. You'd athought he'd a head out someplace. But he didn't. And then of course, when they surrounded the place and tried to get him to surrender, and she finally came out of the house and they had shot holes into the house. We saw holes in the house years afterwards. After he was shot. So we don't know whether he shot himself or if he was shot by a bullet shot through the house.But he was killed right there.

SS: Do you have any idea how the mother took it?

HS: Well I suppose like any mother,she wanted to save her son, didn't want to see him killed. But took a lot of nerve for her to come out the door and try to get 'em to quit

SS: Was she telling them he was dead?

HS: As far as I know I don't know.

SS: You think she came out to tell them to stop shooting before he died?

HS: I suppose coming out of the house she thought maybe that would stop the shooting. There were a lot of men out there with guns that they got from the hardware store and went out there and the whole sheriff set up. They were in like trenches like in the Paradise Creek out there.For protection.

SS: Did the men in the posse ever talk about it in the later years?

HS: The papers were full of it. My father was out here when it happened. We were still back in Wisconsin. We didn't come out here until about the first of March. And of course, he had papers so that, oh those big headlines. I imagine there's papers someplace, at the university or someplace that show all what happened.

SS: They have the Lewiston paper but not the Moscow one. And they have two accounts. The one that come out right after he was shot the same day was quite different than the one that came out the next day. A number of the details were different. Whether he had killed himself or been killed. What had happened after he shot Watkins and some of the encounters that he had in Moscow. Whether the mother had, you heard that the mother probably came out to get them to stop shooting? While he was still defending himself?

HS: I would take it that was the reason she came out,yes.

SS: They have that two ways too. She came out before or after he was dead. Did the men talk about it in later years?

HS: Like any incident of that kind, it never dies down. It sometimes gets magnified as to what all happened. I remember seeing some headline of what happened, alright,but I've kind of forgot a lot of it.

SS: Its been suggested to me that some of these guys had some doubts in later years, did you ever hear that any of they guys in the posse said that they were sorry? That they'd handled it that way?

HS: I don't remember reading anything about that.

SS: I was thinking in the talk.

HS: No, I don't remember anything of that. well so we had a pump which we had to carry water into the kitchen for drinking cooking and all that. And bathroom and , having students, the younger fellows, they had to take a bath in the kitchen in the tub, a metal tub. Mother would have on the back of the stove alboiler, boiling hot water. And they'd just take water out of there and put it in the tub and that'e where they took their bath. Well then, some, we had an electrical engineering student that stayed there Wallace, and Mother wouldn't let them use very big light bulbs because the electricty was rather expensive . So he worked out an idea of where he could put a wire ahead of the meter and into his room, wich he did. And as far as I know, that operated for years that way. We didn't know anything about it but we found out afterwards. These fellows were all around twenty, twenty-one, twenty-two, along in there. One was a mining engineer, one was en electrical engineer, two of *em were civil engineers. And it's remarkable, we kept tab of those fellows after they graduated and where they went, and every one of them made good. I remember Harry Driscoll, for one, which is family, that he lived there. And he operated a business out of Troy and made a mint of money on that. Another fellow was from Genesee, Ole Pauls. He wound up in the federal government with road construction and bridges and so on.

SS: Did most of these fellows stay for several years in the boarding house?

HS: Oh yes, oh yes. She operated that, oh, for about six or seven years. In fact, I was working at Creighton's at the time when she started it. And she carried it on even for sevev£years after I went down to David's.

SS: Did these students go out on dates in those days?

HS: Oh yes, oh you bet.

SS: University women at the time? Is that who they'd.

HS: Yes, yes there were. I could tell you one incident, but it wouldn't do to record it. One of them fellows that stayed there.

SS: Maybe you could tell it without using his name.

HS: Well, I don't think it would be, kind of an immoral thing.

SS: Where the wood came from that you heated with?

HS: Well, we had a woodstove in the living room and dining room, and a woodstove—wood and coal range that she cooked on. And we had what they called, the people that lived out in the mountains, they called *em woodrats. And they, during the wintertime, they would cut four foot length timber and sell it then the next summer for the As I remember my father used to buy eight cords of wood at a time. And we had a woodshed, piled it outside the woodshed. And there was a fellow named Stanley who would, two of the sons are still living in Moscow, Hubert Stanley and Rick Stanley, he had a saw machine put on the back of the truck and he would cut those into sixteen or eighteen foot lengths—yeah, sixteen foot lengths 'cause it was four foot cordwood. And then both sister and brother pile the wood in the woodshed. And then a little later on, why we mixed coal along with the wood to get more heat.

SS: And generally the cost of things was very, very low then.

HS: Oh, as I remember yoid buy a cord of wood for oh, around four and a half to six dollars a cord in those days.

SS: Your mother could actually make a living by the rates that she was charging these fellows.

HS: I don't know how she did it, but she was interested in my two sisters taking music. And she bought a piano on a monthly payment basis and paid that out. And my two sisters learned to play the piano* As far as my brother and myself were concerned, at that time there was a mandolin club organized in Moscow, a man from Spokane came down and gave lessons. And the instructor, it was a guitar fiayer, and was a man named Childers who run a ice cream parlor, played a guitar. And then I played the guitar so there were three of us and about oh, there must have been about twenty-five mandolins. He furnished fem a mandlin for nothing and give 'em instructions. And I think the course, for six lessons, was twelve dollars. When we finished the course, why we gave the concert injthe Mthodist church for the city.

SS: And the people could play it after six lessons then?

HS: Yeah.

SS: Pretty good.

HS: Yeah. And after that was through, why then there were four us, formed a little mandolin club of our own and played at churches and lodges and different organizations around town. And that group was—I went down yesterday to see the Eggan girl, who her cousin was one of the group. There was Eggan, Jenny Peterson, it was Claus Peterson's daughter, and my sister, Myrtle, and myself. And we played for, oh, a good many years after that. Until, really our final playing was up at the Lutheran church, which I was a member of. And oh, our pieces were waltzes and two-steps and things like that. We didn't play any religious hymns or anything like that. And we had enough Fundamentalists in the church that objected to having that kind of muslt in the church. We never played after that.

SS: You weren't playing at achurch service, just in the church, 8r were you playing it for a service?

HS: It was in evening service of some kind, it wasn't a church service but it was in the church. And they didn't think that was the place for that kind of music. But ' the days when we had a lot cff people in Moscow that were against playing cards and dancing, both. A lot of them were Methodists. I think the Presbyterians were a little more lenient. Lutherans were against it too. SAM I've been told that it was really those people who felt strongly that way that did bring about prohibition coming to Moscow when it came.

HS: That's right, that's right. And we had prohibition pretty early. It seems to me it was before World War I.

SS: I think it was.

SS: A lot of temperance lectures or it was put on the ballot or what happened?

HS: It was on the ballot of course. The WCTU ^ere the instigators of the whole thing. And they passed around a lot of propaganda. And of course during prohibition the little towns across the line, Uniontown and Cotton, and those places were still open. Washington didn't have prohibition. Of course, it was very easy to get liquor and just over there. It got to the point where the shertfiswould set up a posse out here on the south Main Street and Bridge and check cars that they thought were coming over from Uniontown with liquor. And then when it got more severe the bootleggers came in here and they went around and took individual orders, never delivered right on the spot. They took orders and then it was delivered later. I remember.incidences like that.

SS: When you say it got more severe, do you mean it was harder to get, and you just couldn't go across into Washington and get it.

HS: Yeah, that's right.

SS: So was it openly violated? I mean it was done very quietly, but still it was pretty broadly disregarded.

HS: Yeah, that was it. Because they knew that they were watching the liquor coming in. But it got so: common that they couldn't enforce it very much.

SS: I've heard it said that it brought about more drinking because it was illegal That more people got interested It, it was forbidden.

HS: That's why prohibition was overturned, just for that reason. That there was more drinking. And a lot of people were gettin liquor from stills out in the mountains. And peojie were operating stills whth were well, there were cases where people went blind drinking some of the liquor. It wasn't properly distilled. And so that's what defeated prohibition when Roosevelt came in. I've forgotten what year he must have been in the early thirties.

SS: Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit more about Mr. David, but first I was going to ask you about that book that you mentioned to me, that was an influence on you in your early years.

HS: Yeah. Well, Mr. David, senior, Frank David, took quite an interest in me, and I was interested in my job. I did a lot of things that an ordinary fellow wouldn't do. And he appreciated me doing more than I was expected. And I quite an interest in selling and he realised that 'cause I would tell him when I made a good sale and things like that. So he had a book, really a book on psychology, 'cause he said selling is all psychology anyway. And in this book, he took it rather seriously too, himself. He said, "You know, you can tell a customer by his handshake, whether it's a limp shake or a real hearty shake. And you can also judge a customer by the coarseness of his hairl' Things of that type.

SS: What did coarse hair mean?

HS: Well, and I found this particularly true with a lot of customers. A person with coarse black hair normally bought coarse materials clothing, like tweeds and things like that. It wasn't for them to buy because it accentuated their hair.

SS: But they were attracted to it because it was like their hair?

HS: Evidently. hat would a limp handshake or astrong handshake indicate?

SS: What was a handshake?wnat

HS: Well, a very weak person, a strong person would be harder to wait on than the other. The weaker were more, easily influenced in to what you were trying to sell them. Acid even their walk and things like that, all those things are in to selling.

This was a book about selling? Or a book about psychology, or both?

That was the Psychology of Selling is what it was.

Did you find that book useful?

HS: Yes, oh yes. I reft that thing through and through, time and time. And then up at the university they gave a night course, I'd the business school and the psycfelogy department and I took that in for about three months, I guess. And then we had a fellow come thiRigh here, most of the business people on Main Street attended it. What is the fellow that national advertised?

SS: Is that Dale Carnegie?

HS: Yeah, Dale Carnegie. That's it. And they sent a man in here and he set up a week's course sellling. And I think that was brought about by the^school at the university which was very helpful.

SS: Did you seek advice from Mr. David very often the te chnique and the skills involved in the work. Did you find him helpful in.

HS: Very much so because he was a salesman himself. In fact he was a good salesman. And he would come around and talk to me about selling. And naturally I would listen to him and probably ask questions from him about the technique of selling.

SS: Did you have very much opportunity to watch him working in action?

HS: Well, Mr. David, at the time I went inthere was more of a floor walker. He did very little selling, but he'g direct customers to people he'd want to wait on 'em. And he was a great storyteller. He'd talk to the customers and he'd with em, with friends that were good customers, he'd always go back and get a sack of candy and give t-fto them, fchen they paid their bill at the end of the year, the farmers around here and a lot of people had yearly accounts, he'd always^ to me to the man. And he says, "I want you to fix the gentleman up with a good hat, he just paid his bill." So I gave away many, many a hat to people And at that time you could buy a Mallory hat made out of rabbit's fur for three dollars. That was the price I remember now. A Stetson hat was five dollars. So

SS: Well, you say he directed people to people he wanted to wait on. He had in mind, you thiik, to match his customers with the salesman?

HS: I think so. Yes, I'm sure he did.

SS: It sounds like real good business sense to me

HS: Well, he was. I consider him one of the highlights in making my career, all right. Now he had eventually three sons in the but when I went in there there were two sons. One operated the shoe department and the ether the clothing department. And it was only maybe about three years or four that the son that was running the dothing department,^he wanted to take charge of the women's redely A department and head that up. So he turned the department then over to me. Which I was, oh, I must have been nineteen or twenty at that time. But he would consult with me several years after I took it over. But I would say after 1921, he turned the whole in '58 thing over to me and I operated it from then until the time I quit and I'll have to admit that I was rather successful operating it because in all the years that I was in the store the men's department had the biggest volume and the most profitable during those years. I have the figures down in the basement from the year I went in until the time I quit.

SS: I could ask you to what do you attribute that success, but I don't think I will because you probably would be too modest to want to tell me.

HS: I gave fem plenty, plenty of my time. A ten hour day didn't mean anything to me. In those days we went to , you know, at seven o'clock and quit at six. And on Saturdays or when there was a fair or a or any special event in town, we'd keep open till probably ten o'clock at nigit. So always didn't mean anything to me. And of course I wa* interested in seeing the department improved all the time. And s we were continually rearranging the department, and the senior Mr. David went right along with me*. He said, "You go ahead and do it." So we a lot of new innovations.

SS: like what?

HS: Well, take the men's hats. We had to sell hats out of a hatbox. A hatbox held three hats. So we had a tremendous lot of hatboxes up there, and when you went to sell a hat, why you had to take a box down, the hat out, and if you showed him why you probably had four or five boxes out there, and kind of a clutter. So I proposed that he let me put shelving, and put these hats of the boxes. Well, he went a little further than that. He even says,"Well, we'll put some glass over it." So that was one thing. a Tian Then our dressing room; the only way could try on a pair of trousers was to go up to the third floor. Well, that meant going up three sets of stairs to get up there and it took yon from the department while you were doing that 'cause you had to measure the trousers and all that. So I talked him into letting me put a dressing room downstairs. And the only pice that we had would only allow a space about four by four for a man to go in and put on a pair of trousers. But that helped an awful lot. We had to use that for a good many years. Then our stockroom was up on the third floor against the south wall where we kept surplus of underwear, overalls and shirts and luggage, and all that. So I proposed that he let us put in a balcony 'cause the ceilings were about ei^teen feet tall. And there was a ledge all around the sidewalk allowed me to go ahead and put that in and we moved down aot of the—especially the soft goods downstairs.

SS: Why did the balcony make that possible?

HS: So we could take some of the reserve stock upstairs and put it on the shelf, we have to run up there every time we wanted something we didn't have down on the floor. And we had just a ladder to get up there, see it wasn't a stairway, it was just a ladder that went up there. Well then when I first went in the store a tot of the men's suits were folded with the pants and the vest put inside and put on the counter. You'd have one here and one here that kinda folded over into this pile. And you had a stack about that high. Oh, you had it in sizes and different stacks, and if you wanted a certain pattern you had to pull it out of the stack which was a terrible nuisance and it messed things up awfully. So I got them to get the plumber to make some racks out of water pipe. And we hung the suits from then on, on racks.

SS: Host of these Ideas Jmst came from your own observations of what the problems were.

HS: Yes, any time that I took a vacation or made a trip any piece my main objective on the trip was to go into other stores and see how they arranged their merchandise and what makes In fact, I even shopped window displays because each department had to trim their own window. And so I would observe their windows and I took notes of what they had on their sign cards in windows and all thattin order to pass that on about the store. And we did put in some pretty good windowi because we had one line of clothing: Style Plus, which sold for seventeen dollars. And they were giving a prize for the best window. Well, I didn't realize that there were some big stores that would have some elaborate windows*I went in and I decorated awindow with all the material they sent. And I had the photographer take a picture of it and sent it in. Well, I didn't get a prize, but I did get an honorable mention on it. So that was something. And then I remember in the the early merchandising business you didn't have janitors in the store. You swept the floor every night before you left or early in the morning when you came down. You shovelled the sidewalks off, snow in the wintertime, washed the windows, all that. And that was no special one; we all did it. We all pitched in.

SS: How many salesmen were there in your department besides yourself?

HS: There were three of us when I first went in there. And then we increaeed it to four. And then during, I would say dulng World War I because we had a tremendous lot of soldiers up here in all the dormitories and the fraternity houses and so on. And then's when we started hiring students. And there have been times when I've had as many as four students in the department.

SS: It sounds to me that probably you were more interested in advancing the business than you were in advancing yourself in a way or in just making money. Am I correct in feeling that way?

HS: Well, as I think of it now I was so interested in the job. And there was so much to learn and do that time didn't mean a thing. I just spent hours and hours, even overtime because I was interested in it. And I guess you would say I was more interested in the business then I was the money I made. B was just looking the other day—in 1921, 2 and 3, I got a hundred and twenty-five dollars a month. And then I got up to a hundred and fifty dollars a month before the depression started in '30. And then depression hit us so hard a year after it started nationally that they just got us together and says, "About the only thing we can do, we're going to have to reduce salaries. And they reduced, I know my salary to a hundred and twenty-five and others accordingly. But along about '35, I guess, things started to pick up. And of course I went right on up, a hundred and seventy-five a month. We had a tremendous increase in business after World War II. In fact I had one of the biggest years I ever had right after World War II, I think it was in '48 or '49, in the department.

SS: Was the year that everyone took a salary cut 1930?

HS: I would judge that it was in '31 or '2 because after Roosevelt got in. it hit merchants in the bigger communities much worse than it hurt us to start out with. The depression didn't get here until a year after others were involved.

SS: I wanted to ask you about Mr. David's possible running for governor that you mentioned. Do you know what that situation was that he could have run if he'd wanted to?

HS: Well, he was offered it, I know that the only reason I can see why he didn't take it was that he didn't want to be involved in the campaign for it and his business meant a lot to him, and it would take him away from the business. And it's proven that in Governor McConnell; he took the governorship, business went down and eventually he had to close out got back from his four years governor. SAM Do you know what role Mr. David took in politics?

HS: Oh, he and his sons both were tremendously interested in the university. And at the time Pocatello was interested in getting thebniversity down there, away from us. And every legislature, they had to fight that. And Mr. David was very instrumental in the back room politics and contacting the legislature by phone from Moscow on the conditions. So he was very political minded and he was very aggressive in it. And I guess today you would call him a semiliberal 'cause he was looking out for the interests of Moscow.

SS: Why would he be liberal? Became.

HS: He was for things that a lot of people: were against.

SS: Do you think there were afot of people in Moscow who didn't really care about having the university here?

HS: I don't think that.

HS: It was the outside interests that were trying to get it away from us.

SS: What were some of things that he was for that other people wouldn't be for?

HS: Well, this being an agricultural community and that was the main resource here for business because Moscow was kind of a trading point of this whole area. And his old cronies were interested in the university and that influenced him some I think too becuase the university enrollment, you know, when they started out was very,very small. And even when I went into the s^re in 1910, I don't think the enrollment was over six hundred and fifty to seven hundred students. And it was building up. So, and of course, he had sons that he was interested in education. Every one of them went through college, and three of em—three sons and a daughter graduated from the university from 1902 to about 1909. Howard David, the youngest one, I think graduated in about *9, 1909. So that was an incentive, of course, he was interested in education.

SS: What was your understanding about how the university got here in the first place?

HS: Well, of course, the old story is that I'd the opportunity of the penitentiary or the university and they picked the penitentiary. That's the old story. But Ithink it was through the efforts: of some of our early politicians in the late 80's. I can't recall the names. McConnell was one of course.

SS: Ari Wilis Sweet is often. . .

HS: And Willis Sweet is one, yes. And we had the push here to put that thing over where the other fellows didn't. So it was through the people that we had here, living here at the time. Judge Forney, for instance, another. He was the first appointed president that kept the ball rolling.

SS: Do you subscribe to the idea that it was largely given to us to keep north Idaho as a part of the state. So that they wouldn't go and join Washington?

HS: Well, that was brought up by, I don't know whether Sweet was one of 'em, but I'm sure the early politicians used that as a leverage on southern Idib all right. And what they wanted to do is take in Spokane, let Spokane be the capital of eastern Washington and northern Idaho and western Montana. And the new state was to have been Lincoln, the name of it. I think it was biaight up more than once, part of the threat.

SS: So that idea probably had quite a bit of support up north here?

HS: Oh yes, you bet. You bet they did. Oh yes, a lot of people were in favor of that because it was a fight with the south all the time. And it's a funny thing, when Idaho was established, northern Idaho was a state. Southern Idaho was nothing but sagebrush, and farming got started a little later, of course. And the Boise Valley got to be quite an agricultural and fruit area. Now I think it was due to the men, the politicians that we had here that got the university here. The penitentiary end of it, I don't think is in the picture atall.

SS: There was another book that I was going to ask you about. And that is the book that your mother gave.

HS: But I was about, oh I guess I was about seventeen years old when she gave that to me.

SS: And what is the book about: Pushing to the Front?

HS: It was how people became successful in their field. Oh there are alot of national figures in there of course that they use as examples. But I think you'll find an article in there on Benjamin Franklin. I wouldn't be surprised if even Napoleon's in there, (chuckles)

SS: It says-"Wanted- a man. Possibilities and spare moments. Chosing a vocation. The triumphs of enthusiasm. Personality as a success asset Do it till you finish."

HS: The whole idea of the book was to put yourself in to whatever you attempted. Push yourself right fibng. Don't let failure stop you from pursuing what you're interested in.

SS: Was this book very important to you when you first had it?

HS: Oh yes. I read it through and through.

SS: Give you more confidence that a young man could make good and. . .

HS: Sure did. When you could see what others did, why you were able to do it too.

SS: I see Cornelius Vanderbilt in here.

HS: Is he?

SS: Urn hum.

HS: We went through his mansion two years ago. The most beautiful mansion I've ever seen. A lot of marble. It was a place for entertainment. Had a big ballroom. Lots of bedrooms.

SS: Was this book aimed at business or was it aimed at business, government, and any careen?

HS: Any career. It wasn't anything in particular. It was to instill in you to push yourself into whatever you attempted to do.

SS: Do you remember the circuses coming to Moscow when you were a boy?

HS: Oh, yes. Yes, we had a circus, I would say every year. I don't know that we ever had a Ringling Brothers Circus here but we had Sells , and there was another one that used to come. And they usually set up in the old fairgrounds down where Rosauer's are. And we have had circuses down at Ghormiey field. We've had some where they had to gt out on the outskirts of town to perform. City always got a little revenue off of circuses for use of ground.

SS: As a boy did you want to go to those when you could?

HS: Not only that but I carried water to the elephants. Yes, I got many a p§s into a circus. We'd always go down there early in the morning, and we'd have to carry boards for the seats, things of that type. And oh, many a time I carried water to the animals.

SS: In return for a pass?

HS: Yes, you didn't get paid for it. You just got a pass. So you didn't have very long to get a pass. Yeah, another place where they had circuses was down there where Mark IV. That ground was a circus ground.

SS: Were the circuses very large?

HS: Three rings. Oh, once in a while a smaller circus would come that would be mostly dog show or something like that but most of the circuses were three ring circuses, acrobats and everything.

SS: Did they have lions?

HS: Oh, yes. They had lions and tigers and horses and monkeys.

SS: Wat about these chatauquas? Do you remember them?

HS: Very much so. They'd come for a week and thy 'd sell season tickets before, you had to buy a season ticket. And^I remember they were six dollars for a season ticket for a week. And they set up in a tent north of city park. That was all open ground there then. And they had their programs both afteifbons and evenings. And we had some nationally known figures at these chatauquas 'cause chatauquas had some pretty fine programs. And I'll never forget one program. Either a congressman or a senator was on the program, and it was right before World War I. And he says,"There is no war coming up. These contries can't afford a war. Germany is broke and France hasn't got money enoughs to carry on a war. There'll be no war," He hadn't been out of town a week—we had a war started. I'll never forget that. They had some wonderful programs and wonderful entertainment. There was both musical and speech and lectures and what not. Well, I was playing the cornet in an orchestra at that time. And Eggan's Hall was built somewhere around 1904 or '5. And that's where the shopping center is on Third Street. He had a photography gallery right on the corner. And he built this big, just a wooden building with a stage for a roller rink. And boy, people in town here roller skated for several years. In fact, we had dances there and during the chatauqua our orchestra played for ten cent dances. That was the common thing in those days. You didn't go to a dance and pay a couple of dollars for the evening. It was a ten cent dance. After every dance a fellow'd go around and collect the tickets. Well, that was very profitable for us because there were some of those evenings that the place was so full that we made around twelve, fifteen dollars a piece, playin for those dances which was a lot of money in those days. Then after that the National Guard was formed here in Moscow, and I was a member of it. And we used the stage for the lockers, to keep our guns in and equpment. And then we used to parade^ drill up and down Main Street and Third Street. And the only real activity I had in the National Guard was when when the IWW uprisings around here. They were mostly loggers. And they set up what they call a bullpen down in Park and put a fence around it. And we guarded that fence that they couldn't break out. But the thing was finally settled and oh I guess I served two years in the National Guard. That's about all.

SS: Do you know about how long they kept the bullpen?

HS: It wasn't very long. Probably a week. And it was settled. But^of 'em were loggers from up in the camps that were causing the difficulty.

SS: I wanted to get to the Scouts next, but first I thought I'd ask about the forming of the first country club and the history of that. How that came about here?

HS: I think I gave you a lot of that didn't I?

SS: Yeah, but it was only just as talking.We didn't put it down on tape so I thought the stry of that would be good.

HS: Oh, I see. Well,the beginning of golf in Moscow started with Albert Moody and myself down on the old fairground which is now Ghormley Park. My brother did a lot of the labor on it. And we put in six golf holes— sand greens. And had so . It was pretty good. And there were just enough people in Moscow that played golf in other places before they came to Moscow that around that nucleus we got the thing going. At a dollar per member to put those greens in. We had no membership fee particularly. That was about it; one dollar for playing^season.

SS: Did you have any troubles laying out that golf course there?

HS: Yes, because we had one hole that was next to the Paradise Creek. And a lot of golf balls were lost in the creek, of course until they got out a floater golf ball. And whenever we, on a second shot were afraid that it was going into the creek, we always used the floater. And that saved it. You didn't get the distance on that kind of a ball that you did out of a regular golf ball. Well, from that it progressed into wanting a nine-hole gold course. And that was before World War I. So we went out on the Gub Mix place, north of town where the KRPL station is now and laid out nine holes. And they were sand green too. At ithat time, then's when we organized the Moscow Country Club which took in both go7f and tennis. The tennis courts were up on the corner of Hayes and B Streets. I think we had three or four tennis courts* To become a member of both golf and tennis you paid fifteen dolors. If you only placed one You Paid ten dollars. Ihave the list of the names of all the original memberspf that course. Well, the war came along and we were criticized so in developing a golf course 'cause it was n't completed atall yet.AUs putting in a gold course when they needed wheat so bad during that time. We even had our gass seed bought, all stacked up ready to plant the thing and the greens and so on and the farway. Well, they got together and they decided maybe they should give it up until after the war, which they did. But we still held the grouf together- And then, I've forgotten just what year it was, but I think it must have been around maybe '21 or '2 along in there, is when we bought this piece ground where the golf course is now. And hired Mr. James who was a golf expert in laying out greens. And he came here and laid out the course. Well, in order to develop that we had to get a membership. And we had over a hundred memberships at a hundred and twenty-five dollars a piece. And that started the thing off. Iven though you were a charter member later on your green fees were sixty dollars a year. Well, that dropped a lot of the membership. And our membership went down. We hated to see the course go by the boardis and the Elks Temple at the time had slot machines. And they were making money hand over fist on their slot machines. So we proposed to them because a lot of our members were Elks, proposed to them that we would turn it over to them if they wanted to operate it. And they took us up, and it's been the Elks Gol4 Course ever since. The sad part of it, those of us that paid a hundred and twenty-five dollars as charter members of the course never got any membership in it. We had to buy a new membership just the same as though we never owned it.

SS: Were you still paying off the land? Is that why It became impossible tc hold onto the course yourselves?

HS: Well, let's see now. It was forty acres, and I don*t think the land at that time cost over a hundred dollars an acre. So the forty acres didn't cost over four thousand dollars.

SS: But the problem was the upkeep was too much for you, too expensive?

HS: Yes, that was part of it. There wasn't money taken in to operate it.

SS: Didn't you tell me in the early first days of golf here there was a lot of people, especially businessmen who just didn't think anything of the sport? Didn't want to try it?

HS: Well, that was the original course down at the fairgrounds. In fact, I think I mentioned to you that it took us quite some time to get some of the older fellows interested in it. And Mr, David, senior, who was up in years at that time, wouldn't be seen carrying a golf club out of the store or a golf bag. So I used to play with him occasionally. And we would go out the back door of the store and put his golf clubs in the car and drive down there and play around and then come back and bring *em in the same way. So there Were several of 'em thought it was kind of a sissy game. Stickin u^ a ball and drivin it and chasing it. But it got so, they had to get tremendously interested in it to want to put in a nine hole course out north of town. And it developed pretty fast after that.

SS: Was it hard to come by golf clubs in the first days of golf around herd?

HS: No, just as soon as we organized that fiist golf course I put in an athletic department in the store, and I was the only one in town that had golf clubs to start out with. And in those days there were no steel shaft golf clubs. They were all wooden shafts which was the kind they used in Scotland where golf originated. And a golf club in those days, why I even have a listing of the clubs that I sold to various members, would run two and a half a piejce. A driver or a mashee would cost three dollars. And golf balls, I remember, were from twenty-five cents to fifty cents. And I sold a lot of golf clubs in there. And from that, why we got interested in selling equipment to university for their football and basketball and tennis and all that. for a good many years we were the supplier for the university basketball and football team on their equipment. Uniforms, footballs, basketbaals and all that.

SS: Did men carry bags for the clubs in those days like they do now?

HS: Oh yes. And then of course when we started this course out here, why sane of those older fellows wanted somebody else to carry their bag,and that's when a lot of kids in town here went out there and acted as caddies. I know my adopted son, I took him out, this was in the late thirties, I took him out to carry my bag for me and let him learn a little something about golf. Well, he didn't last very long because there were so many golf balls lost on the roof that these kids were out there huntin these golf balls because you could turn 'em in at the club house if the oil was in good shape for twenty-five cents a piece. Well, I don't know how many dozens of golf balls that he picked up but I lost my caddy.

SS: I was going to ask you also about, along with talking about clubs, about the three clubs here in town, the major ones. And I know the main thing I was interested in was how they sort of came about. Now the Rotary was here first and the Kiwanis came later?

HS: Um, hum.

SS: So the Rotary was sort of looked at as the old man's club?

HS: Um hum.

SS: And then the Kiwanis was the young man's club. Well then what about the coming of the Eions and what you were telling me about the feeling that the town couldn't support 'era all.

HS: Well, it seemed that bottjthe Rotary and Kiwanis were alittle lax in taking in more members into their club. And evidently some natfhal officer of Lions came into Moscow and surveyed the community and thought a Lions Club should be organized here. So they got hold of a few of the younger fellows; they were doctors and bankers, working in banks and so on. And they had a meeting and they decided to form aLions Club. I think they had to have Jat least twenty-five men in order to form a club. Well, I heard about the organizing and I heard about it a little too late. But I went to the president of the Rotary Club, and I proposed to him, I said, "Let's go see some of these fellows that are on the list for the Lions Club and you take half of them and the Kiwanis take half of 'em. And we'll eliminate the club in town." Because didn't think the town was big enough for three clubs. But it was too late, they'd gone too far. And they went ahead and organized. Well, I was there at the organization meeting by the way from Kiwanis, aaa representative Kiwanis the night they iniated their officers. And they called on me to say a few words and of course I gave 'em all the praise In the world because there was no use doing anything else. Their main project was the seeing eye, you know, Lions specialize on blind people and getting white canes and look after *em. It wasn't long they had several cases of that here. And they got a lot of publicity, being a young club they were just looking for community projects galore. And I don't know how it is now, but I would say for years, and I guess they're still doiig. They did more community service than either the Rotary or Kiwanis Clubs did. And it's a good strong club today.

SS: What do you think was the big main difference between the Rotary and Kiwanis? Those two clubs, the first clubs?

HS: Well, naturally, Rotary being the first service club organized, they were a little jealous of their club, and I suppose they felt the same way when Kiwanis organized, that they didn't want Kiwanis in Moscow. But they were a very active club when they started too. And they performed alot of community service.

SS: Were you in on the organization of Kiwanis?

HS: I was within six months of it, yes I'm not a charter member. I was proposed for membership 'cause they take two of a business. Rotary takes one. And Iwas approached on it and Itold »em, I says, "Yes, Iwould be glad to belong but the store would have to take care of the iniation fee and so 4n." Well, they saw the store, Homer David, particularly, and he was a Rotarian, and him being a Rotarian and his two brothers with the Chamber of Commerce, they didn't think it was advisable. But in six months they changed their tune and I've been a member of the club since 1926.

SS: There was plenty of room then for a second club in town at that time?

HS: Why yes. When Iwas president of the club in 1940 why we had amembership of fifty and we kept building that up until we had sixty-five. And then when I was lieutenant governor in 1952, I think it was, we got information from the district here that every club should increase their membership according to the population. Well, we bailt the club up to eighty-five members in that year. And of course, we took a lot of member in there that were enthusiastic to begin with but a lot of them dropped out later on. We har1 some members that shouldn't have been Kiwanis at all. All service clubs have that trouble.

SS: Well, I think we should hit some mae highlights of scouting too. Now, we did talk about scouting some last time.

SS: You have down here on scouting.

HS: Well, one of the camps that we used out in the mountains before we built the one we finally used was Camp was Eldridge's cottage home out in the mountains. And he allowed us to use it for overnight hikes and trips out there. And I remember one overnight hike we had out there, I don't know whether I told that to you before but I had about twenty-four boys out there sleeping in their blankets. This was before the days of sleeping bags. And one of the boys started to break out. And we determined it must be measles. So there was a farm across the bailey up there and we went to there and called up his father and told him, we said, "You've got a sick boy out here. You better come out and get him." So he came out and got him, and that's what he had, was measles. Well, the thing about it, there wasn't a single boy that caught the measles from that contact out there which we were glad about.

You moved quickly on it.

Yeah.

This Camp you slept inside the cottage?

We slept both in and out. The cottage isn't very big so it didn't hold very many boys so we slept on the ground. And I think the patrol leaders and the scout officers slept in the cabin.

This was Dean Eldridge's?

Yeah.

And it was used frequently by the scouts?

the early Oh yes. We used it a lot. Because it was close and of course, scouts loved hiking. And that was a big activity in the early scouting here. We did slot of hiking. And in order to pass their first class test they had to take a fourteen mile hike. And out to Camp Kopeck' ,It wa§ seven miles out there so they could go out there and then come back. And on the hike, of course, they had to do a good turn and observe the landscape and animals3 wildlife and all that on this hike. And then tell what they brought with them to cook over the open campfire and so on.

I want to ask you a little bit about that since I've been looking at some se of the reports that the scouts wrote after the hike. One thing that I'm curious abot was ,was there a usual route that the boys hiked from here to there on? Or were there a lot of different ones?

Oh, there were different ones. There were a good many of them took that, but there were hikes all over. Some of 'em took em up to Paradise Mountain, Tomer's Butte. I think there was one hike that I gave you there that they went out south of town and out towards the old Pullman road and back in which was longer than a fourteen mile hike. So no, there was no particular place they had to go to. The main thing, they had to perform a good turd, it had to be fourteen miles, and it was an observation test as much as anything. They'd practice pacing on it which was valuable to em in map making. So

SS: Would they stick to the roads mostly?

HS: Oh no, no they'd...

SS: They'd go cross-country?

HS: Yeah, they'd cross-country. In fact I was just reading one the other day where they went through a fellows wheat field and it was muddy. And how they had to clean their shoes off after they got out onto the road. We bad one hike, we started right here at the corner of the cemetery, county road,a, bee-line hike. That was quite an event. And we spotted the tree up here that was in the open up here on Paradise Mountain. And we were supposed to make a bee-line for that; it was cdled a bee-line hike. You weren't to deviate atall. Well, I was on that hike, and I had an assistant scout master with me en that hike. And the first obstacftawe run into was this South Palcwe Creek down here. And the water was high. And we coidn't around and comeback over here anShcome back over, we had to go across that creek. Well, the assistant emit master, I'll always remember, his name was . He says, "I'll get these boys across . So we went out and waded the creek to see how deep it was. Well, it came up to about here on him. (his waist) So he took every one of those kids—and I've forgotten how many—about fifteen. He took every one of those kids piggy-back across that creek. And we made our bee-line hike up there. And we had our cooking along with us; and we had our meal/up there.

SS: It was waist deep, that water, huh?

HS: Yeah. I was cold. I don't know how he took it. He even took me across.

SS: (chuckles) He was a big man?

HS: He was a pretty husky man, yeah.

SS: Well, did kids know the routes that they took of these fourteen mile hikes? Had they been over the routes before, most of 'em?

HS: A good many of *em had been over it, yes.

SS: The trais were fairly well set in most places that kids would take.

HS: Yeah.

SS: They would know how to get on a short-cut from one place to another.

HS: Nobody got lost.

SS: The kids didn't get lost then? I was going to ask you about that, whether there were times when the scouts did get lost.

HS: I only had one case, and that was when Moscow Mountain was on fire, had a forest fire up there, and the whole community wentout there to dig trenches and stop it. And they needed somebody to patrol these trenches after the/ were dug because the be roots of the tree, you know, would go underneath and start a fire on the other side of the trench. So I offer sd my troop to go out there and patrol. Ive forgotten how many boys we had but we used Camp our headquaters for eating meals. I think there was some organization brought out food for us. Well, wep those trenches and it was a good thing because we had any number of cases where the roots had gone across the trench and we were able to put 'em out. But this one boy named Harold Waters, strayed off. And there was trails like this. and up at the top there was what they call a round top. And o^ of that roundtop there were trtls that lead inall directbns. Well, he ventured up to that round top and he took the wrong trail backto Camp .And he Was lost there for several hours. He hadn't showed up so we sent out a search crew and we kept hollering and hollering and so on. He'd gotten away quite a ways 'cause he'd took the wrong trail. But he finally heard us, and we stayed where we were and kept hollering and he found us. We took him back to camp. And that's the only time that I ever had anyone lost.

SS: One feeling that I get from reading these themes, which I think is so interesting,is this feeling that the country was so much more country in those days than it is today. These guys would go out there and just walking, and they'd be seeing wildlife, a lot of it. It just sounds like there were a lot more trails around than we'd have any traces of these days. Is that true, do you think?

HS: Well remember this was in the twenties and thirties. And a lot of the townspeople used to picnic out in the neuntains. That was one of the favorite places to go for a picnic. And a lot of the trails tllat are up there were made by logging—pulling logs out of the hills. And if I'm not mistaken in the early days there used to be grazing up there. Thee'd be sheep from down below down in there. And they'd go up into the mountains and stay for the summer, and then pick 'em up again in the wintertime.

SS: So Moscow was a lot closer to the real countryside than it Is today?

HS: Yeah. Now remember there was a road from here to over Moscow Mountain. And have you ever heard of the name 'Cumerlne Gulch?* Well, that was re Cumerine Gulch Road. And you could go right up over the top and down the other side, there was a sawmill over on the other side and it lead you to Princeton. And along in the twenties there was a proposal by several Moscow men that had bought, oh forty or elgty acres up there on the big mountain. And they proposed that we develop that Cumerine Creek Road. And up at the top, you turn to the right and go up to the big mountain and develop a park up there. M. E. Lewis was the instigator of that. He was a real estate man here in Moscow, and he was a state senator and all that. So he wanted to make it a scenic route. And there was a county road back of toe mountains that wound up over here grade. And he had big plans of that being quite a tourist attraction. And Abe Goff, owned land up, Harry Powell owned. farter owned property up there.

SS: This was just in the higher reaches of Moscow Mountain then? Yeah, it was up on the top there, the highest part of it. So what happened?

HS: Well,you couldn't get state funds for the road for some reason or other, and I think the thing fell through because of financing, which a lot of us were sorry for because we thought that could have been a mighty good project. Kiwanis Clud was bak of it; Rotary Club was back of it, but it fell through. the story one

SS: Would you tell me about your scout, thewhqyou had that letter from from St. Anthony's, the scout that you tried to reform?

HS: Well, he was a scout that the probate Adrien Nelson, he was rather sympathetic Doys, he hated to send boys to reform school. So he came to me, and says, "I've got this boy he's an illegitimate boy living with his grandmother, and he in difficulty!' He'd been writing checks on har and beyin stuff that he shouldn't, especially candy and things like that. So he asked me if I wouldn't like to take him over; see what we could do with him. So I proposed the name to the scout troop and asked them if they would want to carry on a humanitarian project and see what we could do with him. Well, two or three of the older scouts thought it would be a good thing. So we took him on, and oh, he was aggressive; he was jaet gonna Iearneverything in souting, and he just did good turn*and all tliat. And it looked like we were making a lot of headway. In fact, he was instrumental in th^rlag pole that I showed you the picture of here. He went out in the mountains and got that flag pole and peeled it and brought it into the church and he raised it there up in the church.

SS: This was the Presbyterian. . .?

HS: Presbyterian Church, yes. Well, years afterwards after he was through scouting he got into a difficulty and he was sent again to reform school. And I guess he was there for a couple of years, and they decided to paide him out. And he was on his way up here to Moscow, and he and another parolee, they stopped in Boise and they stole a car. And that put him back in the reform school again. And I think he was there for another couple of years, And they parolled him out and he came up here. He went to work for the Potlatch Lumber Company, in what capacity I don't know. But he came in one day to the store after he'd been up therea while and told me how much scouting taught him in the use of . that in his work up there he needed the knowledge of .. So it wasn't that he was doin so well. And about an hour afterwards Judge Nelson, the probate judge, came though the store. And I told him I says, "You know, who do you suppose I saw? Dave do^cC came in here and he told me how well he was doin up at Potlatch." "Well," he says, "if you want to see hm again he's up in the county jail right now." And I'd forgotten what he'd done to and vears get in. And I only heard about him years later but he still came back up into this country, he's around here now. I would judge he's a man of probably sixty years old.

SS: Well, the letter that he wrote to you from St. Anthony's was very inter esting because he was looking at you as a good friend and as somebody who had really helped him.

HS: Oh I'm sure, but he was too weak a character to stick with it. But he was the only scout in all the scouting that I've been through that's eve^ been sent to reform school, which is quite a record. And while he's not the only boy we had difficulty with, this boy was never set to reform school-U I ParreFormed him myself. He was a boyAsold Spokesman-Reviews and magazines on the street. I don't know whxher I told you this or not, but well, he was in the scout troop. We had a program where boys could^ buy a uniform, we had a raise through somebody, a uniform so he could go to camp. Well, he a fellow approached in the Mosocw Hotel lobby, he says, "Our scout troop is trying to raise money for some of the boys and would you like to contribute for it?" Well, this fellow told him—he hppened to run the hotel barber shophe said, "Well, who's your scout master?" Well, he told him, "Harry Sampson." And he says,"Well I see him abofc it, see what they need." And this,, said, "Don't do that." He dHn't want to be scffealed on. Well, this fellow that saw me about it and there were several thhgs that piled up on him about the same time. He would sell these magazines and tell *em,"I need an extra fifty cents or a dollar. Would you mind paying for your magazine or your paper a month in advance?" And he collected quite a bit by tHt. And then he didn't deliver the magazine.

So when I found that out, I found out from him who the people were that he hadn't delivered a tpegazine, and I'Made him pay it back. Well, we didn't kick him out of the troop cr anything, we kept him on. And I remember years later we had William here in Moscow who was in the Air Corps. And he was for an advancement which required the FBI to investigate him. So they called on me because he had given me as a reference to find out. Well, I sent in a reference about it that fcey had spelled the name wrong. This boy's name that we had trouble with was is spelled the same way, only it's "g" instead of a "q". Well, they'd made a mistake and made it "g*. So I couldn't recommend this boy for the position atall* And they couldn't understand it, so they sent an FBI man over to the store *td interview me. And he wouldn't talk to me in the store. He says,"I've got ray car out here ^the curb, come out in the car. I want to talk to you.* And he showed me his badge, and it said FBI. So he showed me the questionnaire that I had given. And when I saw it, immediately I said, "Well this isn't the boy that I for." And that kind of settled it. I said, "Well, this Bill tie's the finest scout I ever had! He's entitled to anything he can get. And that ended the interview.

SS: This boy that you had the trouble with, this boy, he did go straighter after that?

HS: Oh, he moved from here over to Seattle; his sister lived over in Seattle, and he went over to live with her. And I never heard about him since.

SS: You want to touch on a few more of theses.

HS: Oh yes, I'd like to mention a few backers of scouting that were a tremendous help in putting scouting over in Mosow. And I would put at the head of the list: Homer David, Herman Wilson, John Harry Whittier, Abe Goff, Reverend Sessions, G. L. Luke, Colonel , J., G. Eldridge, R. K. and Oscar Henry J. E. Rutherjbrd, President Theophilus, H. H. Simpson, J. W. Barton, June Shoemaker, J. G. Davis, G. W and Those were all men, most of them were Kiwanians. And they did a tremendous job in backing reorganization of scouting in 1926 and '7. It was through their help that I was able to organize five troops in Moscow, got scout masters for all of *em, got committeemen for all of 'em, and merit badge examiners. It was a real treat to have the backing of these men.

There was one little project that we did in Moscow. Moscow had street signs made on wooden boards, stenciLed, and they'd put in yeafi and years before. And along about 1927 or '8 a lot of those signs were, gee, a lot of them had faded out. And we proposed to the city, if they would get us a stenciling set and the paint and the lumber, we would re-sign the streets in town. Well, they did that. And they wound up, they gave us seventy-five dollars for the job because we did a good job of it. But this second scout troop that I had did the job. We painted 'em white, stencf ed them black, and then to preserve 'em we put a coat of shellac on top of that, put them all over town. And those were the street signs used in Moscow until the Lion's Club took the project on of putting up the metal signs. And I think that has only been, maybe, fifteen yars ago. So those served a long time.

SS: There was one thing I wanted to ask you about, and I don't expect you to say more than a bit about it, but you told me that in 1925 scouting died and that's what caused the reorganization.

HS: Um hum.

SS: You say this was because of the individual who was the scout master?

HS: Scout executive. We had a scout executive that was and the financing had goeten into bad shape too. And just the whole thing together just fell apart. And there was no scouting in Moscow there for a year. And it was through the Kiwanis Club that I proposed ifthey wanted to get into boys' and girls work, why I would set up a scout program, and which they did. And we were under at the time the Spokane council. our street signs were put in we performed a traffic survey oV the main thoroughfare. And the scouts, for one whole week, had a traffic conon the corner of Third,. Sixth, and the corner of Washington. They directed traffic and they also took the number of cars that passed that intersection in a ten hour period. And they also cited violations, cars t hat didn't pay any attention to 'em. they took their license number down, things of that kind. So I have the figures on the number of cars that passed the corner of Third and Main someplace. It's tremendous the traffic, even in those days. And this was way back in '28 or 29, along in there.

SS: Was there usually an officer directing traffic on the cornir, or was there usually no traffic director at all?

HS: No, trfffic cop, no. No, there was no traffic cop there atall.

SS: What was the purpose of the survey. Was it to see what the needs were for traffic control?

HS: It was to show the city the amount of traffic that was on the main thoroughfare. And I suppose, to hare stop signs and what-not. But we chose the three most popular corners,and if I'm not mistaken as early as that we'd have, it seems to me that there was eleven, twelve hundred cars that passed the corner of Third and Main in ten hours time.

1:00 - Discussion of Wild Davey; Mr. Creighton's background; Mr. David being very civic minded

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Segment Synopsis: Wild Davey scared kids by his appearance. Mr. Creighton befriended him, and he got free food from the hotel. Mr. Creighton's background; he had special friends, and not very many. Mr. David was highly civic minded, and could have been governor.

8:00 - Why he accepted the offer to work at David's over Creighton's

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Segment Synopsis: He accepts better offer to work at David’s, even when Mr. Creighton offers to improve his wage.

11:00 - Discussion of killing of Watkins and Steffen

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Segment Synopsis: Discussion of killing of Watkins and Steffen.

17:00 - Mother had a boarding house for college students; buying fuel from Moscow Mountain

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Segment Synopsis: Mother's boarding house for college students. He and brother slept in a pull-down bed in the dining room. Toilet and water; students heated in a tub in the kitchen. Their boarders made good after college. Buying fuel from Moscow Mountain "woodrats".

27:00 - All the Sampson children learned music; encouragement of prohibition

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Segment Synopsis: Sampson children learned music: he played in a mandolin group; some people objected to a performance at the Methodist church. Encouragement of prohibition

30:00 - The WCTU being behind Prohibition; checkpoints coming back from Washington; defeat of Prohibition

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Segment Synopsis: WCTU was behind Prohibition here. At first checkpoints were set up for people coming back from Washington, which still was wet; then it was bootlegged in. Defeat of Prohibition.

33:00 - His interest in selling; taking courses on psychology of selling

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Segment Synopsis: His interest in selling and help from Mr. David. He gave him a book on the psychology of selling (e.g. Weak handshakes, coarse hair). A course from the university, and one from Dale Carnegie. How Mr. David dealt with customers in his store: directing them to salesmen, giving gifts.

40:00 - How he became the head of the men's department; changes he made for the store; salary through the years

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Segment Synopsis: How he became head of men's department; his success and long hours of devotion. Innovations reducing hat clutter, installing a dressing room, a balcony for stock, racks for suits. On trips he inspected other men's clothing stores, and developed ideas for window displays. Salary through the years.

53:00 - Mr. David's political activity; Mr. David help in getting the university to Moscow; threat of the new state of Lincoln

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Segment Synopsis: Mr. David's political activity; his concern for the university; he could have been governor. Getting the university in Moscow; the threat of a new state of Lincoln.

60:00 - Pushing to the Front: a book given to him by his mother, about how to succeed in your chosen field.

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Segment Synopsis: Pushing to the Front: a book given to him by his mother, about how to succeed in your chosen field.

63:00 - Going to the Circus in Moscow; Chautauqua in Moscow

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Segment Synopsis: Circuses in Moscow: a pass for carrying water to the elephants. Chautauqua in Moscow. Roller skating and playing for dances at Egan's Hall.

70:00 - He guarded the IWWs in the bullpen as a national guardsman.

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Segment Synopsis: He guarded the IWWs in the bullpen as a national guardsman.

71:00 - Building of Moscow's first golf course and the criticism surrounding it; resistance of local businessmen to playing golf

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Segment Synopsis: Building Moscow's first golf course at Ghormley Park. Organizing Moscow's first country club. Criticism during World War I for taking wheat land for a golf course. Purchase of present Moscow golf course; sale to Elks because of high costs. Resistance of local businessmen to playing golf: Mr. David golfed on the sly. He sold golf clubs at David’s, starting its athletic department. Turning in golf balls for money.

82:00 - Effort of Kiwanis and Rotary to discourage formation of Lions club; David's originally opposed him joining Kiwanis

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Segment Synopsis: Effort of Kiwanis and Rotary clubs to discourage formation of Lions in Moscow, thinking there wouldn't be enough members to support three active service clubs. David’s originally opposed him joining Kiwanis, but he did six months later; a membership drive.

90:00 - Camp Konjocketty which was used by scouts; discussion of different scouting stories

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Segment Synopsis: Camp Konjocketty (Dean Eldridge's summer home) used by scouts. More about the scouts' 14 mile hike. A beeline hike that crossed a creek. Trails. A boy lost patrolling a fire.

99:00 - The abundance of trails in the 1920s; proposal to develop road and park at the top of the mountain

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Segment Synopsis: Abundance of trails in twenties, and popularity of picnicking. Road up Cumarine Gulch to Princeton; proposal to develop road and park at top of mountain.

103:00 - Discussion of stories from scouting of boys that did not reform

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Segment Synopsis: Trying to reform a boy through scouting. He later goes to reform school and breaks the law. Another scout who was involved in bad activities; confusing his name with another man's leads to a bad recommendation.

112:00 - Backers of early scouting in Moscow; reorganization of scouting in Moscow in 1926

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Segment Synopsis: Backers of early scouting in Moscow. Scouts replaced the old wooden street signs about 1927. A scouting executive ruined scouting in 1925; Mr. Sampson reorganized it a year later.

117:00 - Scouts conduct a traffic survey on three corners downtown to show the amount of traffic there was in the twenties.

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Segment Synopsis: Scouts conduct a traffic survey on three corners downtown to show the amount of traffic there was in the twenties.

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