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Aguilar, Antonio A.

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Line 1	Angela Luckey: The following is an interview with Antonio Aguilar by Angela Luckey. The interview place in Mister Aguilar's home in Inkom, Idaho in 1991.
Line 2	Angela Luckey: This interview is part of the Idaho Hispanic Oral History Project.
Line 3	Antonio A. Aguilar: My uncles.
Line 4	Antonio A. Aguilar: They took care of me. They took me to the mountains because they were like on earth. They call those people.
Line 5	Antonio A. Aguilar: How could I tell him?
Line 6	Antonio A. Aguilar: They call him runners, but he has two.
Line 7	Antonio A. Aguilar: Two ways of interpreting the broker. The broker is the one who runs the horse in the horse races, and the broker who goes to the stores and tries to find out what the person in the establishment needs. Because they went out to buy livestock, so they needed crops, and they lent them money.
Line 8	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when it was time to harvest, instead of taking it to the house, to a winery, which we call a winery, since you know it's very different, but it's the place where they keep things and in the winery instead of taking it and they took it to the house where they had ordered it, because as I say, they went to the store and asked them, "What do you want?"
Line 9	Antonio A. Aguilar: I want this, I want pigs or cattle, horses, mules or whatever, or grain, or whatever else I want, and they would go to the mountains or the ranches, the haciendas, or wherever they were going to buy, and instead of taking what they bought, they would come home, instead of coming home, they would come and deliver it to where it was needed.
Line 10	Antonio A. Aguilar: They took me with them, and they went to work with me, and I followed them. And that's why I said, "I got used to it when I came here." During the war.
Line 11	Angela Luckey: Which War?
Line 12	Antonio A. Aguilar: I think it started in '40 or '39, '40, '41. I'm not sure about that, because I don't remember him and I can't take care of them. As I was saying, back home some people would tell me, you know, it's you, you know the other one. Since I can't even read commercials, I just pay attention. That's how I am.
Line 13	Antonio A. Aguilar: I wasn't coming or going. I came to work. I wasn't a soldier here in the United States.
Line 14	Antonio A. Aguilar: When we received the news on the radio, because at that time we had a radio, I didn't have one.
Line 15	Antonio A. Aguilar: And me. A few days after this, I was already looking for a little place. Well, as I say, I grew up near the mountains, and I like being near the open air. But it's open, open country.
Line 16	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I came here, to our surroundings, to find a little place until I saw this one and liked it. I like the view at the same time as in the summer. The air usually comes from this side. And here it blows like it's at sea. Something like that since, of course, I liked it only in the winter.
Line 17	Antonio A. Aguilar: I felt it a little more because, as I say, with the hills on one side and the other, here in the canyon, it's cooler and that's why I didn't like the place.
Line 18	Antonio A. Aguilar: When I was in school, I was about eight, nine, or ten years old. Something like that. He told me in one of the books.
Line 19	Antonio A. Aguilar: The author that the people who lived near
Line 20	Antonio A. Aguilar: the vegetation, everything like there are here trees, grass, one thing and another. It was like an oxygen factory. That the plants.
Line 21	Antonio A. Aguilar: They gave off oxygen, and the closer you live to nature, the healthier you are, and it's good for you. And since then, I've noticed that people who live in cities...
Line 22	Antonio A. Aguilar: As we say around here, I give you one, it's like.
Line 23	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well, the gardener, the gardener, if he has a little garden, it's nice, but if not, the weeds bend and die, and so you deprive them of oxygen. Letting them age is all I can do. I say.
Line 24	Angela Luckey: Until the.
Line 25	Antonio A. Aguilar: No way! And all the time, it's followed like I do here in the morning. The first thing I do in the name of God is breakfast. Because I was in the army. The main thing is to eat early at the first opportunity because when I got out, you don't know when or at what time. I have to get used to it, and here I still get up, cook, I don't cook, but I hesitate.
Line 26	Antonio A. Aguilar: I eat my food and then go outside to get some fresh air. I want it to cool down because it's a well-known fact. Maybe you don't want to believe it, but many people who live here—or rather, don't live here—work here in places where there are communal buildings, large hospitals, or something like that.
Line 27	Antonio A. Aguilar: I've noticed, as I say, since I was about nine or ten years old, and I still notice, that the more oxygen is reduced, the sooner people die. That means...
Line 28	Antonio A. Aguilar: Here, hospitals with large buildings, where there are many offices, ask them, "How do you feel?" But they don't want to pretend that what they're lacking is oxygen; they have to go outside and it's taken away. But not everything they do is put in I don't know what, whatever they'll put in, but they try to fill the spaces where air can get in and there isn't enough, like in hospitals.
Line 29	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I say, especially in hospitals. They close all the heat outside so they're warm. But, no, they don't give them enough air movement to...
Line 30	Antonio A. Aguilar: The air here is very used, and all the people who live there are injured, sick, nurses, doctors, everyone else. Everyone is in there, and everyone is breathing. But at the same time, they're running out of oxygen. And they don't. They don't want to believe it, but it's hard.
Line 31	Angela Luckey: Do you remember when your family came to this country?
Line 32	Antonio A. Aguilar: To a certain extent, no, because as I say, there's something about the state I was in with the troops that made them look for a place where they could live more peacefully. And since we hadn't planned to come to this place, or rather, here to the United States. Even though we're on the same continent, you come as a foreigner, and the language here is very different from what we have.
Line 33	Antonio A. Aguilar: Just like me when I arrived. When I'd had my fill of wandering around wherever I was, I changed, and all I knew was yes, and they told me no, so be it, you don't know, that's what everyone here told me, you don't know, you don't know. And so I didn't know more than two words. And it's true, now I know a little more, but it's not something I know.
Line 34	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I said, that's how it was when we moved away and they stayed in New Mexico because that's where they spoke the most Spanish. There are a lot of people there who, perhaps the whites, speak Spanish like robots, and they stayed here because none of us had planned to come here to the United States.
Line 35	Angela Luckey: And how did you come?
Line 36	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I say.
Line 37	Angela Luckey: By train or horse.
Line 38	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, I wasn't riding a horse because I was. I was in the troop, and a horse can't cross that hill, and it can't pull a cart, nor can it take the railroad, nor can it follow the place where it's chasing what it's following.
Line 39	Antonio A. Aguilar: Naturally, the railroad comes like everyone else. It's for everyone. I remember when the palm trees that were in the way came there.
Line 40	Antonio A. Aguilar: Even. I heard them coming with the little guitar and... And I talked to them. They came on the train and started singing. And I remember...
Line 41	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I was saying, running and flying. I'm walking. The train is taking me. License to go to Texas and my heart too. And I remember, well, I remember that because you told me what the train came in, this. But the railroad wasn't something new. Because it's very well known that Pancho Villa, no, he wasn't Pancho Villa, his name was Doroteo Arango, and he acquired the name of the ringleader where they were robbing each other, and they killed him.
Line 42	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when he died, he took that name, changed it, and then they called him Pancho Villa, Gorra, and Pancho. And whatever. And well, when they come to you.
Line 43	Antonio A. Aguilar: I need to leave a place where I am with my mind's eye. I look at the place where I was, where I talked to them or walked. And now here it is, like in a dream. You're not old enough, but I think he's older than you. I think he knows that many times, like me, I worked here for 40 years on the railroad, at the Casa Redonda.
Line 44	Antonio A. Aguilar: And now I often go to the park, to the stores. And Tony says something to me, I turn around, I know them like I know him, I've seen him since I was younger, but I don't know, I don't remember his name and I'm embarrassed and ashamed to tell them that man's name, but he still forgets it and many times I want to avoid saying things in a can't, because here, as I say, he says Tony to me and I turn around and I need if he says something because I don't remember his face, their face.
Line 45	Antonio A. Aguilar: I know them, I haven't forgotten them, but I have forgotten their names. And as I say, he may have forgotten some friends, acquaintances, or people he met in other places and doesn't remember their names. He remembers them, and he knows it. With my mind's eye, I look at the person I saw or is looking at, but can't remember their names.
Line 46	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's why when I get like this.
Line 47	Antonio A. Aguilar: I remember things. And as I say, Pancho Villa isn't Pancho Villa, but I call him that because that's what he called himself. But it's an alias, not his name.
Line 48	Angela Luckey: Or his name was Dorotheus.
Line 49	Antonio A. Aguilar: Arango.
Line 50	Angela Luckey: Arango.
Line 51	Antonio A. Aguilar: And Doroteo Arango and that's like.
Line 52	Antonio A. Aguilar: Like everyone else. Maybe he was ashamed of it or didn't want it.
Line 53	Antonio A. Aguilar: And they didn't know him. Or some, I don't know why, but it's Alias. It wasn't his name. No, his name is Doroteo Arango.
Line 54	Antonio A. Aguilar: And he did several very bad things. And now they have.
Line 55	Antonio A. Aguilar: Not only have they elevated him to the pedestal of the nation's heroes. Not for me, no, no, maybe for others, but not for me, because...
Line 56	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't remember the name of the little town here in the United States, where he crossed the dividing line and ran into it, shouted, shot, and stirred up hell. And when they shot him out of there, by the people here in the United States. We went to find him. Because, as I say, we've had the railroad for a long time.
Line 57	Antonio A. Aguilar: But when Villa left Chihuahua.
Line 58	Antonio A. Aguilar: He lifted the rails, the track, which was disconnected from Chihuahua to Ciudad Juárez.
Line 59	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because we came from there, from Regal, under the orders of General Dieguez, Manuel M. Dieguez. And he had been there for several years, because for him the northern campaign was outside his command, and among the people who came with us, like me, with Pablo Quiroga's people. So, when we arrived in Chihuahua, we left there, as he said, on horseback. You can't follow anyone up there, on the hill, on the train. We left on horseback and went to...
Line 60	Antonio A. Aguilar: And then the Mexican government started moving it to transport people. They had to move it on small trucks weighing about a ton and a half. Something like that. The Fulton República del Western brand, and I don't remember any others, but they were among them. Most of them were Fultons. They put a platform with little rings on them, and on top of that, they put our platform in the center, or rather, the platform.
Line 61	Antonio A. Aguilar: Where the soldiers sat, many of them would place their weapons inside behind them and hug each other. And they would all come and jump, because there weren't always paths that were trails or roads for carts and wagons, and I'm telling you about wagons. I don't think you're familiar with them.
Line 62	Antonio A. Aguilar: At that time, there were many oxcarts, and the oxcart only has two wheels and moves at the pace of the animals, just like cattle. It's not the same as a horse or a mule; it's more spacious and doesn't matter how they travel on the road. But it's a road. And that road and our trucks, the heavy one here, aren't the same.
Line 63	Antonio A. Aguilar: And the soldiers, in order to defend themselves from staying there, threw us away, they lost us, they crossed paths with each other, they put in their arm that many had already given them.
Line 64	Angela Luckey: But they went as if in a chain.
Line 65	Antonio A. Aguilar: So, one is a human chain, so with arms and, as you said, walking together. But you ask me the question about the train. No, I knew the train. I think I had the knowledge that I had knowledge and had known, that's all I can say. What I saw at the beginning, when I had...
Line 66	Antonio A. Aguilar: Six, seven years, something so far back I don't remember, but... Some of those people who fly took me, they took airplanes.
Line 67	Antonio A. Aguilar: And many, as I say, all left on horseback.
Line 68	Antonio A. Aguilar: To see the new airplane. And they fly. And all the old people, especially people my age, less so. But what about the hunky men. Fly, we're going to fly, man. And if you fly, you fly. And everyone wanted to. And to see how they flew. Well, among those who went, I did too.
Line 69	Angela Luckey: That was in Mexico.
Line 70	Antonio A. Aguilar: Yes, it has to be in Mexico, because it wasn't like that, and I grew up there and didn't leave until I was 21, when I came here to the United States. That's why I don't speak English, because I couldn't go to school, I couldn't pursue anything else, because I didn't know how to work.
Line 71	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when we worked, I had to learn. I worked a little hard for 25 cents an hour.
Line 72	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when one of them left, they all came out tired of food. One of them was sure they needed more food, right? And one of them went to sleep. He didn't want to learn. And when they called them, I call them gabachos, and I got over it, the idea stuck with me because since I'm here, the kids are Mexican, they're not from the same breed as us, one of them speaks to Nixon Aguilar, but they're not from Mexico.
Line 73	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know, in California many were born here, somewhere else in Albuquerque, and others here in Idaho. Like these boys who are here. So they were born here in Idaho, among that family, just one, three. The three little boys were born here. And one was born in California. And the other three here in Idaho.
Line 74	Antonio A. Aguilar: That's why I asked them. Are you Hispanic? And it's very difficult for them. Like here at the hospital. When I went there. This time he said, "What's your name?" I told him later, I told him, "Did he tell me when you were born?" You know the questions they ask uni. I answered them all, and then he turned around and said, "Want? I want to know where a Mexican can get blue eyes?"
Line 75	Antonio A. Aguilar: I told him, well, I tell him, that's very easy. If you had known my mother, you wouldn't have asked. And his ears just turned red. But I can't tell you any other way because my grandfather, when they came, came from Spain. And they came to Mexico with one of the deeds with Liberal. And one of my aunts.
Line 76	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when they passed, after arriving in Mexico, there were four more, five in the whole family. He had red hair, or rather, I call him Rusty, because it was red hair, but he was very, as I would say,
Line 77	Angela Luckey: Like copper.
Line 78	Antonio A. Aguilar: A little dark. And his eyes? He had blue ones.
Line 79	Angela Luckey: Was that your grandfather?
Line 80	Antonio A. Aguilar: Yes, my mother's father. My mother's. Because my father doesn't know him. And I don't think he even knew him. He didn't remember him because he was an orphan. So I didn't know them. In that family, there was only one, but my father. And from the other side. On my mother's side, I had brothers and sisters and my grandfather, and as I was saying, they came as they were runners, they went wherever they went to buy things and came back.
Line 81	Antonio A. Aguilar: It was the way of life. They worked, but they didn't work directly under a foreman or a steward. Call it what you want. Since I already had something.
Line 82	Antonio A. Aguilar: About ten or eleven years ago, and I saw it, well, as far as I remember. I thought.
Line 83	Antonio A. Aguilar: I remember that my hair was already a little gray, and what color I had was Rasti's, a little reddish hair but very darker than mine back then.
Line 84	Antonio A. Aguilar: When I grew up I went to the house of Soy como soy, because of me, or rather, what we inherited.
Line 85	Antonio A. Aguilar: My mom had blue eyes, but brown hair, which later darkened until it was almost black. From a distance, it looked black, up close against the sun. You could tell it was dark brown, which we call "te regalo" (a gift to you), but yes. And here when I came to the United States.
Line 86	Antonio A. Aguilar: This. This is what happens when.
Line 87	Antonio A. Aguilar: The little fire. After she died, the boys sent me my mom's photograph. And when I got here, there was a man they called Horseface. Do you remember him? No, no. Okay. And he was like that in his life, especially among those in the Mexican colony, those who had photographs, the, as they say here, Blain.
Line 88	Antonio A. Aguilar: And they sent it to me after she died, they sent me the photograph and I said, well, I want to remember my boss.
Line 89	Antonio A. Aguilar: He said and the eyes are blue. And after they looked at them, after they
Line 90	Antonio A. Aguilar: It
Line 91	Antonio A. Aguilar: They made it bigger.
Line 92	Antonio A. Aguilar: But like I told him, they painted them brown. And after they painted them, I still see them very clearly.
Line 93	Angela Luckey: Very pretty. Very cute.
Line 94	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's why I say it seems.
Line 95	Antonio A. Aguilar: Hey, the boys. So, thinking.
Line 96	Antonio A. Aguilar: No. And that's why I...
Line 97	Antonio A. Aguilar: I was telling you, like this lady told me.
Line 98	Antonio A. Aguilar: He said in a tone, "Want I want to know, is how you get blue eyes?" My eyes aren't blue. They're lighter because they're very close here, in my other pluses, with what our places are, I know. What have they told me? They're in Grey, but not blue, huh? Theirs were blue, my grandfather's and my mom's.
Line 99	Antonio A. Aguilar: And easily here.
Line 100	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'll see.
Line 101	Antonio A. Aguilar: Here you are. And my brother was four years younger than me. He's buried in Albuquerque.
Line 102	Antonio A. Aguilar: He has blue eyes.
Line 103	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that was a photograph, I was tiny. I was little. And they made it longer. I think this is where my dad wrote to her. Or I don't know. I haven't seen it, but I haven't noticed. But I'm noticing right now.
Line 104	Angela Luckey: For Agustín Aguilar. But it's his son, Juan Mhm.
Line 105	Antonio A. Aguilar: His name was Juan de la Cruz Aguilar, and when he returned to Mexico, there were other Juans, Aguilar, and he called himself Juan Aguilar Hernández. Hernández on my mother's side, Aguilar on our father's side. But to differentiate why they lived here like me, there's a Mr. Aguilar who lives here in Pocatelo, near Taiji or thereabouts.
Line 106	Antonio A. Aguilar: And at the beginning we started, or rather they started, to mix it up.
Line 107	Antonio A. Aguilar: The letters, catalogs, and things that came to us. There they received ours. And we received theirs, mixed in with each other. They didn't know how they do now. We still often receive them here.
Line 108	Antonio A. Aguilar: Our things, everything. But at that time, when he arrived in Mexico, that's why he named himself Hernández. It's the one and I'm not; I'm capricious. If you want to call me by my name, that's fine, and if not, no, because when we moved back here, this was the first house there was, when I bought it here.
Line 109	Antonio A. Aguilar: And then others started to come. Among them was a man who had a little boy about 8 or 7 years old. He called me Angle, Blue, and Bailey. Whatever came to mind, and he said, "No, no, no, no, don't change my name anywhere, otherwise I'm already Tony," because they were carrying it on the track in the round house.
Line 110	Antonio A. Aguilar: They couldn't believe the name was too long, and they didn't call me Antonio, Tony, Tony de Tony, Tony this info, Tony. And now when someone says Mister Aguilar, I feel like turning around, I feel an irresistible pull to turn around and see who Mister Aguilar is, because...
Line 111	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'm used to little kids, everyone being called Mister Aguilar, but she's a little older than me. I don't know how to tell you. They changed my name, hehe. I think I saw that in the case. And here, everyone calls me Tony, and when they call me Mister Aguilar, they make me turn around to see who Mister Aguilar is, because I thought it was just me, but there's no other family.
Line 112	Antonio A. Aguilar: The worst part is that they had a son or have or I don't know if he's alive or dead, but his name is Luis.
Line 113	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's what happened with Evaristo, because when he was born, Luis Mota and his wife.
Line 114	Antonio A. Aguilar: That was this lady, as I tell you, when the
Line 115	Antonio A. Aguilar: And this lady was named Eva. Here they call her Eva, but we call her Eva. And this lady was his wife. And when we...
Line 116	Antonio A. Aguilar: Our offspring, when the family arrived, this Luis and his wife baptized Evaristo. Because his name was Luis. And her name was Eva. Eva in English. The others called her Eva. Right? And I called her in the Mexican style. Instead of naming the boy, I didn't name him Eva, because I couldn't name him Eva, since his name was Evaristo. So it was Luis Evaristo Aguilar, their son, like my other son from here.
Line 117	Antonio A. Aguilar: This guy. His name is Antonio Iván Aguilar, and I'm Antonio Alejo Aguilar. The names are very similar, but with a difference in the middle.
Line 118	Antonio A. Aguilar: That's what we named the boy, and he lived for almost 50 years. And he lost his life as a result of the war. And that's all. And it's like all things, beginning and end, born, they want to see it. And here he died. And there he is buried.
Line 119	Angela Luckey: You had said that you went into the army at the age of 17 and then got out at the age of 22.
Line 120	Antonio A. Aguilar: When I joined, or rather, when I was inducted into the Army. The government was 16, 17 years old, but I had the bad luck that before long I had to cool some meatballs for Plum, and that's when I had to go to the hospital. I remember that because there was one among the doctors who did military service.
Line 121	Antonio A. Aguilar: As they saw that he had lost a lot of blood and at that time there was no way to put it on like now, now they have that blood for.
Line 122	Antonio A. Aguilar: Recover what they lost. Well, that's fine. And at that time, no, if you were lucky or God forbade you, you'd get kicked out.
Line 123	Antonio A. Aguilar: I was one of them because the doctor was in serious condition, right? They told them there at the house, and they went to see what happened when my dad was talking to the doctor. They arrived, and then the wet nurse, as we call her, stayed with my mom, talking about one thing and another, and they were saying, with what I know, what's going to happen and how she is.
Line 124	Antonio A. Aguilar: He was in very serious condition, and so serious was he that I locked myself away, as they called it. When you lock yourself away, you lose all your color and turn yellow, and you lock yourself away, as they said. And I was already locked away, because everyone was saying, "I'm honest, I'm locked away." Well, I was with you, but I couldn't speak because I was tired, I was very weak, and I couldn't, I couldn't contradict myself.
Line 125	Antonio A. Aguilar: And then my mom, when the doctor turned around and asked, "How are you, kid?" My eyes were open, just a little, but I wanted to see. And since I was so weak, my eyes were closed, and I managed to see when I started crying because I cry. Well, the doctor said no more, and he said I was going to die, and then he said you were going to die.
Line 126	Antonio A. Aguilar: I told him I don't know his title because I don't feel like I'm dying.
Line 127	Antonio A. Aguilar: If you want to cry, wait until I die, and then cry until you're full while I wait. And then I'll be relieved after I'm still alive.
Line 128	Antonio A. Aguilar: He died before me because I was a solid old man and must have been about 60. His father, not the doctor.
Line 129	Angela Luckey: His father, not the doctor. Or the doctor.
Line 130	Antonio A. Aguilar: And here I am. Or as I tell you.
Line 131	Antonio A. Aguilar: Or I'm already dead and I don't know it.
Line 132	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's why I say that if you're wrong, you're wrong. That's all I can say. I'll get to it.
Line 133	Antonio A. Aguilar: And there are things I can answer and things I can't. Like you told me when I started, that I could leave that life to go to the other side of the river. Because that's not the point here. Excuse me? Nobody wants to know about you, and if what I, what you want to do, or are doing is like a...
Line 134	Antonio A. Aguilar: Yeah.
Line 135	Antonio A. Aguilar: Wants.
Line 136	Antonio A. Aguilar: Tell them what my life was like. Something like that. I imagine.
Line 137	Angela Luckey: History.
Line 138	Antonio A. Aguilar: And no, no, no. Why not? And here, when I arrived. Well, what I could find, that's all. As I said, I didn't know how to work because I'd never worked there. When I was 17, I entered the service, and when I left, I was full, full, because I got tired of shooting at other Christians and others of serving as targets for others.
Line 139	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because I am, I am positive. Because three times, four times, I was given advice. And after finishing well the last time.
Line 140	Antonio A. Aguilar: There's no future like this. You have to retire. And then I said, "Here it is, it's good." And after more than four years of going around in circles, I asked to leave because it's not the case in the dirt. I don't sign for a period of time. At least not for that period of time. I don't know now because I'm retired from my homeland, or rather, from Mexico.
Line 141	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well I continued when I was 21.
Line 142	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'm almost 92.
Line 143	Antonio A. Aguilar: It is and no, I don't know, when I left there, since one doesn't receive newspapers or anything that brings news of what's happening there or what's happening, I don't know, I don't know. This. Many people ask me what does no mean?
Line 144	Antonio A. Aguilar: Here I tell you, I put down roots here and here I die.
Line 145	Antonio A. Aguilar: My parents are here, here, in this country. My siblings, my brothers, some of my nephews. And I'm the last of those who came. They've all died. And it's all getting to me now. No, I can't say it, I can't help it. One. It's part of what one says about growing up.
Line 146	Angela Luckey: So you came on a re-enlistment.
Line 147	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, no, no, no, no or no. There was no reenlistment. I went through alone.
Line 148	Angela Luckey: From Mexico. I was alone here.
Line 149	Antonio A. Aguilar: If you're in the troops, you ask for your discharge. They give it to you, and you want to leave that place like I was in Chihuahua. I hope there's reenlistment. Well, I'll ask at some office. Do you want to go to work? Where? Where do I go? I didn't know how to work. I don't want you to understand what I'm saying. It was unexpected because I had no intention of coming to the United States.
Line 150	Antonio A. Aguilar: But I got tired. I got tired of shooting bullets and getting shot at. And naturally, I'm looking for a peaceful place, young man. No, but I didn't re-enlist.
Line 151	Antonio A. Aguilar: I got out of my job at the offices in California, yes, because I went to Albuquerque, and after Albuquerque, I went to different places. Arizona and another one in Colorado. One thing and another. But where I re-enlisted, because I re-enlisted there, I was never a woman's rat. I left so that, yes, and so that if we get there after a while, after payday, one thing and another, you look for one thing and another.
Line 152	Antonio A. Aguilar: The way to find something to do for fun, right? Something that would change you. And be loved. Not retreat from the countryside. So we had to cross from Kansas City, Kansas, to Kansas City, Missouri, separated by the river. And connected by a bridge like the bridge here at El Paso. And so we crossed from one state to the other. But the dividing line was the river.
Line 153	Antonio A. Aguilar: And as I said, we went there. And when I was there, I said, we have to find my people. And I remembered Dionisio.
Line 154	Antonio A. Aguilar: And Dionisio had difficulty with the name, like me, they were trying to figure out what to do and said "Well," and he said "Martínez."
Line 155	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because there was a little place called the Martínez, right there in Albuquerque, another one called what we call Barrios Varela, the Varelas, the Martínezs, because in the time I knew, the time I went, and the time I met after I joined my people, there was a place called Berna Lillo. I think they all have the same name.
Line 156	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know why I haven't been back since I left. I didn't go back until my brother died; that was the last time I went, and that was several, several years ago. And that's why I say this.
Line 157	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because Albuquerque is the same as here.
Line 158	Antonio A. Aguilar: Pocatelo
Line 159	Antonio A. Aguilar: I met him in his childhood.
Line 160	Antonio A. Aguilar: I think that if I had been a child I would have seen him running around with.
Line 161	Antonio A. Aguilar: What about him? Yes, because the Indians came here.
Line 162	Antonio A. Aguilar: And they came here, and they came in Waggens, they called it at that time. Some green cowboys. It was his. What's it called? With big wheels and horses. And when they came from there, from folklore, and came here to Pocatelo, they didn't return the same day. There were times when they lasted. Three or four days, a week. And there was one guy.
Line 163	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't remember what his name was.
Line 164	Antonio A. Aguilar: They came here.
Line 165	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't remember, it was the one who closed the horses. And there was a deserted space that had nothing. It didn't have any houses of any size. Like what we call a block, and that's a block, and the distance to the four, the circumference that formed the place where they were.
Line 166	Antonio A. Aguilar: The Indians would arrive there and set up the teepees they were assigned, and there they would put their folders. And they would live there for a week, because they came in the van I mentioned, bringing a king with them.
Line 167	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know, do you remember? You were here when Albuquerque was.
Line 168	Antonio A. Aguilar: Didn't you know Pocatelo here? When you were a kid. In '51. Here. There was a brickyard.
Line 169	Antonio A. Aguilar: From where the railroad crosses, which borders the road it crosses.
Line 170	Antonio A. Aguilar: Have you seen it? It's a little way from there. It's about the distance of a block. Yes. There was a brickyard, a brick factory. And there were excavations. Everything there where they removed the earth and made the bricks, and there it was, and from there to there, in open fields, and all the people were doing what they were doing.
Line 171	Antonio A. Aguilar: It was just that one went there to have fun. There was a game. I like women, and the girls went there to fish. Well, in it.
Line 172	Antonio A. Aguilar: El Chícharo. If they went fishing, the file and the men went to work in the beetroot, then it was, as I say, pure open field. And we went there to help them, while also chatting with the girls, this, this, the other, and everything there, because I was showing how I was working the second shift, I didn't have enough seniority to work the first, but I could continue on the second.
Line 173	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when I entered the second one, I would come in at 4:00 p.m., so from 8:00 a.m. onward, I could do whatever I wanted. And when the kids had some, they had a car here, and I didn't, I didn't have a car. That's all I can say. Because I didn't have any money, because...
Line 174	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when one of them left work, one would go and talk to the kids there and help them, because as he said, they were there, they had their little baskets, and one would just chat for a while, that's true. But here, just like I saw in Pocatelo, I saw Albuquerque. Albuquerque was also very small. The size. And when it grew, well said, well, it grew quite a lot when they put one like this here.
Line 175	Antonio A. Aguilar: Some bought a place. The government bought a small place for the airplane crew, where they had a lot of airplanes. One thing and another. And they were looking for a place for their crew and a place to live, while also opening the place where they bring the airplanes, where they boarded and disembarked. And that's where what developed here grew a lot.
Line 176	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because here, up to here, near the Dipu, in places where they are now, the garden, they would come and set up the teepees and spend two or three days there.
Line 177	Angela Luckey: And what did he come for?
Line 178	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know why they came, but the Indians came here to the town.
Line 179	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know if they had business?
Line 180	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well, no, I don't know how to say it, but they would come, and when they came, they wouldn't come back the same day. We knew that for a fact, because I lived with a man who was a cook. And his name was...
Line 181	Antonio A. Aguilar: Juvencio León. And he had them on board.
Line 182	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I was one of them. And since he didn't have a house far from here, the heart of Pocatelo, we came here often. Because it was on 4th Street.
Line 183	Antonio A. Aguilar: And we came like everyone else.
Line 184	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I was the same as the others. I came and I liked it. Others liked one thing and another, and I liked going out there. To where the florist's houses are, we would tell them what you do in the rich houses.
Line 185	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I liked to go hunting because I've liked it all my life. That's how they taught me. My uncles really liked hunting, and that's how I learned why it was like that. Me.
Line 186	Antonio A. Aguilar: They taught. And I still can't help but realize that I learned everything.
Line 187	Angela Luckey: And there were already quite a few. There were other Mexicans here. When you came.
Line 188	Antonio A. Aguilar: The Mexican colony was so small, so there were only three or four families among whom I knew, or rather, those I managed to talk to, because I couldn't mix with them, because the older women, I think, had heard that I had been a soldier and they put crosses on me, as they say in the world, because they are the devil and I saw them there.
Line 189	Antonio A. Aguilar: Hello, here it comes, come out, come out, come out.
Line 190	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I took it off. But Antonio's parents were there.
Line 191	Angela Luckey: Reds.
Line 192	Antonio A. Aguilar: I think it's the second one here in Pocatelo
Line 193	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't remember her name, but Antonio.
Line 194	Antonio A. Aguilar: The countryside, whatever it may be.
Line 195	Angela Luckey: Gonzalez.
Line 196	Antonio A. Aguilar: I think it's Tony González. I think it's González. Like I said, their family had one. I think so. Two. Three brothers, and Jesús. And he were the two brothers.
Line 197	Antonio A. Aguilar: I couldn't hear what I said, but as I say when I wanted to turn around, it's not that Vélez wanted to row red and.
Line 198	Antonio A. Aguilar: Furthermore, I separated from the colony. For the same reason, because I have always liked to respect, as Benito Juárez said, respect for the rights of others is peace. I don't want to go around fighting, and I withdrew. Because José, the husband of one of the boys, now Antonio's brothers, already
Line 199	Antonio A. Aguilar: I was involved with my brother and others, too. And as I said, I was working, and my mom was sick, so I didn't have the money to raise children and wander through the forest. And then the families here.
Line 200	Antonio A. Aguilar: Among the families was Antonio González. And there was another one, I think, named Soto. He remembers Florentino's father. And there was another boy among the brothers. I think there were two or three of them. And Pachita, Francisca, one of the sisters, I think there were more, but she was the oldest. As I say, they all had their own homes, and people didn't go near them because, as I said, when you go to the basket shop, they're always looking for three legs on a cat, you know you have four.
Line 201	Antonio A. Aguilar: and
Line 202	Antonio A. Aguilar: They pushed me aside. No one wants to hang out with me because they're bad people. But it's fine, everyone has their own ideas.
Line 203	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I, as I say, there was Soto, there was González.
Line 204	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well, I think three or four were the most there were. And all the girls had someone to entertain themselves with. It's not that I look one way, I just stand aside.
Line 205	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's why I left them. Them. Because they don't want to be with me. So why force them? I don't want any trouble. After I got married, I liked the little place and bought it. And now I'm living like a cojote.
Line 206	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, fine, because I don't have any friends. They don't like me. They don't like me. It's no good. I don't seek them out for entertainment.
Line 207	Angela Luckey: What was your wife's last name before you got married?
Line 208	Antonio A. Aguilar: It was Gray.
Line 209	Angela Luckey: Graham.
Line 210	Antonio A. Aguilar: Greene. The. The wife of the. She was a married woman, was married and Edmond's surname was Ella. But the. Grey is the name of the girl when she was as if I said the one in the family.
Line 211	Angela Luckey: How did you meet her?
Line 212	Antonio A. Aguilar: Very simple. The sister was married to an Indian. Right? Back then, as I said, during the war, they took in as many people as they wanted. It wasn't a matter of color, size, anything. Everyone the younger ones took, they took to the army. And among those they took, they left open places that had to be...
Line 213	Antonio A. Aguilar: Occupy someone else. There were a lot of women. A lot of girls. And there were others, like this man. And he came from Idaho Falls and is living here in the city. And he went to work there, coming and going for days. You told me, "You like to fish, You like to fish, You like to hunt, and... And why don't we go to Idaho Falls? I'm an Indian."
Line 214	Antonio A. Aguilar: I say, let's go. I'll take you.
Line 215	Antonio A. Aguilar: I said no, no. No, no, don't go. He told him. He didn't say anything. He said, if you want to buy it. He said guaranteed purchase license and it costs you $2. Well, yes, let's go. I bought the license and we went fishing and I had that family. I met him, like I said, I didn't have any friends, I didn't have anyone to spend time with outside of it that didn't cost money, up there in the hills, here in the city.
Line 216	Antonio A. Aguilar: I liked gambling for one reason or another, and because there in the city, a girl took away my idea of drinking. Because that's life. Here, like the Bourbons have come here many times, and they said, "Well, what are you doing?" And Don Rink set up. And he's Don Rink. And I told him.
Line 217	Antonio A. Aguilar: There is no Don Gabor leader.
Line 218	Antonio A. Aguilar: Cash on this. You don't drink. You don't smoke. And me. Well, good morning. No, no, no. Don't take me away.
Line 219	Antonio A. Aguilar: You believe what you want, and I believe what I like. Because I've lived many years, and they've served me well. I can handle it. Since you're wasting your time, it's unnecessary.
Line 220	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I told him to leave me because they are wasting their time.
Line 221	Antonio A. Aguilar: And. How. How I would like to grab her.
Line 222	Antonio A. Aguilar: True that.
Line 223	Antonio A. Aguilar: You.
Line 224	Antonio A. Aguilar: Why? What are these people? Even the amount of time one gets mixed up in things that don't concern them. I like to respect. If those who want to be friends are friends, and those who don't, then each to their own. And as I said, the families here all pushed me aside, and I withdrew. Known as you call the lady.
Line 225	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't even remember her name. I think... the president.
Line 226	Antonio A. Aguilar: They called her President Maria and there was another lady who told her that one Maria Brincos also told her something like that, guys, already the family.
Line 227	Antonio A. Aguilar: From the family where Rafael Rodríguez married one of the girls. As I say, no, no, no, no, yes, the Mexican colony has been very small, very reduced. And no. And since they don't want me, they don't. Okay. Everyone decides. Among them, the Bourbons come here and tell me. But my brother said, while no one believes in God.
Line 228	Antonio A. Aguilar: I believe. I speak for myself, not for others. That one knows that God gave him the opportunity to live.
Line 229	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because that girl I'm talking about is from over there. And since I don't like to drink, or gamble, or smoke, or wander, I have fun up high, because that's how my uncles taught me. That's all I can say. They got me used to it, and I lived, and I'm still very old. But what we're going to do is part of life.
Line 230	Antonio A. Aguilar: Do I get up, eat my food, go outside, and get some fresh air, because you'll never believe it, but if you have the chance, sometimes, put a hole in it where you are at the tip, there where you often spend a lot of time underground. Then. And there's alfalfa and clover. Something that yellow globetrotter tells Clover and the smell doesn't receive it or I don't know, like more like I told you.
Line 231	Antonio A. Aguilar: You don't notice it so much while you're in the hole, but when you come out, you notice the scent of the flowers and vegetation around you. Because you've grown accustomed to the smell of the earth, and if you move far enough away from it near the exit, you notice it immediately, that it's the heart, the blood, the head.
Line 232	Antonio A. Aguilar: They're telling him to jump, jump, jump, jump and one of them jumps out and when he comes out the smell of the aroma of the flowers hits him on the nose.
Line 233	Antonio A. Aguilar: Have you ever had a time when there's alfalfa that's been threshed, that's been cut, and when they throw it around, it hits you with that aroma you call that, that's how you notice it when you leave the woman because you're already getting into the wines. I liked being illegal, I never worked, but I liked it because don't tell me, and when you go deep inside, I remember when I was a kid, what I read in the book about the air and when it came out, when I was there, it lingered inside.
Line 234	Antonio A. Aguilar: Mmm, I immediately noticed the lack of the main thing in the air. And since then, I've noticed that all large buildings, hospitals, and places where there are a lot of people and a lot of air usage have very little ventilation. You notice it. Many people might not notice it, but I do.
Line 235	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I don't like or I don't like going to the hospital because of that.
Line 236	Angela Luckey: So, when you were first born, you were working in agriculture and then went to work on the railroad.
Line 237	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, not here. The only thing that could be said to have been related to agriculture was when I was in Texas. Hmm. What's this place called?
Line 238	Antonio A. Aguilar: Big Springs. I worked there in Big Springs and Sierra Blanca, Sierra or Tierra Blanca? I don't remember anything like that, but it was cotton fishing because it was the first one.
Line 239	Antonio A. Aguilar: The. The first chance I had to start working. I wanted to learn to be a fisherman because that's where they took me. It was during reenlistment. That was reenlistment.
Line 240	Antonio A. Aguilar: And they took me there. And among the kids who went with us, there was one of them who asked me, "Where do you come from?" "If you know how it's mixed with the other stuff? I lived in the United States. What weapons, why are you burning parks, what flag do you have? So, if he told me, he said, 'I don't know how to work because I was there,' I already told him."
Line 241	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'll teach you, that's what I want, a teacher. And we went to pick. The first thing he told me was to put some tape here on your fingers, because the little bone in the bud—he said that—it scratches you and leaves your fingers sore, and then you can't pick anymore. And I need someone to place your fingers between the segments, because cotton has segments like an orange.
Line 242	Antonio A. Aguilar: A cotton-puller grabs it. If you and the one who's down, then he sends it. And they paid them $2 per pound and brought a sack and all the cotton-sized ones to fill it with cotton, if the book was big, the cotton, the weight was nothing. But for those who don't know how to work and had to do something.
Line 243	Antonio A. Aguilar: Don Chas has been around for a few days and when in the afternoon that guy where I was, he told me something that he threw himself face up so that the ground could straighten him out.
Line 244	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I tell you, that's why I didn't go there and he's like him. What happened with my grandfather. He had hair of one color and my dad had it of another color that my dad saw. What about the brothers, because I go down to the bottom of the
Line 245	Antonio A. Aguilar: I can't say that the crate belonged to one of the aborigines of my land. I say he was an aboriginal because he was one of the people who lived and died in the place.
Line 246	Antonio A. Aguilar: But my mom's not with my mom's side. They came from I don't know where, from Spain. And she told us. And we Mexicans, no, no, we don't want those who always suck up. Because for a long, long time they had.
Line 247	Antonio A. Aguilar: To Mexico for over 200 years. Mixed, you could say that. And then we. It's not that we wanted the family because they were family, but where did they come from? Where were they going? They gave me something. No, I don't have to tell them anything because they never told us and we never asked.
Line 248	Antonio A. Aguilar: But they came from there, that's fine, and I'm the same as the rest. I'm a revolting Indian. Because we...
Line 249	Antonio A. Aguilar: Rather, the people of Mexico, the natives, like my father.
Line 250	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well, there were people who lived and died there. But when Christopher Columbus came and passed through there, well, they came to one place and others came to another, because later they mixed and said, but he believed, he was mistaken, that he had reached India. And he started calling them Indians, Indians, Indians. No, it's not an Indian that, and I didn't know he was an Indian until they told him he was an Indian.
Line 251	Antonio A. Aguilar: So I am part Mexican Indian.
Line 252	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'm nothing. I'm just from the earth, they say. Some people tell me I'm from the earth and that I'm from the earth. Me.
Line 253	Angela Luckey: And how? What do you think is why they call them chinas poblanas, chinas, poblanas?
Line 254	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because many of the girls there from that place wear wigs. And I've seen that even among people here in the United States, we're talking about the United States.
Line 255	Antonio A. Aguilar: Many of the girls here in the family have straight hair, but they go where they curl it and it turns out not so straight. There were some that I've seen, some that have it so hot, almost very similar to pinto, right? Mhm. There are many very Chinese people there and they don't want to have straight hair and I know it, I know it, they fix it.
Line 256	Antonio A. Aguilar: It is. I'm not going to tell you how, when, or at what time, but I'm positive that it's the hair because natural hair is one thing and hair that's different, to each his own. They don't like straight hair; they want it curly, like that. And then there are the black people.
Line 257	Antonio A. Aguilar: It sounds awful. The reds. They get it. They fill themselves with ointment and fill themselves up. I don't know how many things. And they want to straighten their hair because it's so wrinkled. To each their own, we see that I see things and I keep my mouth shut, I see them, but that...
Line 258	Angela Luckey: And now what do you say about the colored people? So when you came, there were Greeks and Italians and everyone.
Line 259	Antonio A. Aguilar: Of all.
Line 260	Angela Luckey: Dutch too.
Line 261	Antonio A. Aguilar: Oh yes, many.
Line 262	Angela Luckey: And what did they do?
Line 263	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, because he knew one of them like I knew one of them. And first of all, with my colleagues, I, talking to them. Like we do here, with our hands.
Line 264	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I saw him with the Greeks here, where I went to see him. The butler was Greek, his name was Luis. And he was alone and they had family. And then I. I didn't like it at all. I talked about it here for a long time. And. I told him.
Line 265	Antonio A. Aguilar: They told him the story.
Line 266	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't remember.
Line 267	Antonio A. Aguilar: I told him, "I want to move from that place closer to town." I told him, "Because here it doesn't say I don't have to buy what I need." I like sweet things, and I like cookies, and all sorts of other things, and I want to be closer to the color. I want to go shopping for food. So I moved from table to blazer and back to blazer.
Line 268	Antonio A. Aguilar: I think they are good that the 2 I think they are not 3 miles that can be removed from Big Springs
Line 269	Angela Luckey: Hill.
Line 270	Antonio A. Aguilar: Until.
Line 271	Antonio A. Aguilar: And that's what I'm saying, there were many. The crowding that existed at that time is like that of Mexico. In Mexico, you'd often find people of all races, not so much by color, but by size. Another difference was their last name.
Line 272	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because most of these and the one and others. And one I know with but they are Italian. Many asked me, they saw me like that, as they said many times at the Regal, they saw me with little color in my eyes. Oh! They started speaking to me in a language I didn't know, and when they started talking, they knew the difference between being Greek or Italian.
Line 273	Antonio A. Aguilar: Is there any internationality because also cops I told you about. And us. Well, John, we knew Spanish and a few words of English, but I didn't get my education here in English from anywhere, from anywhere. Everything I had. But I really like to read.
Line 274	Antonio A. Aguilar: And it really soured my mouth that the little boys, ages ten, four, were told some things by their parents and they knew what to do, they understood everything very well and I noticed it too.
Line 275	Antonio A. Aguilar: And a big one who didn't know anything, whose ears were squealing at me because he was such a fool, that I have to learn one way or another. And when I got there, at a walk, as I say, Genaro taught me a few words. The boy I was referring to who taught me how to fish, was called Genaro Valenzuela. And he said to me, "Come on, Antonio, where are you going?"
Line 276	Antonio A. Aguilar: I didn't tell him. Well, the same as the others. I'm going to see where there's a little place, where there's a little fund or something. I made him a fonda, as they call it here, a restaurant here in the United States, where you see me, there's nothing to eat. So, with what I earn, I'll have enough left over to pay the rent, which is 25 cents less.
Line 277	Angela Luckey: Cart.
Line 278	Antonio A. Aguilar: No? Or the salary, the hourly wage I was receiving. So, with a couple of pesos and a take, they want to put one in a restaurant where the clientele is larger. It's not better than the others, but they consider they have to pay for what they have here, for the luxury they have here.
Line 279	Antonio A. Aguilar: This. And I told them, "I want to." He didn't say, "Let's go home." No, no, in my case, it was my mom, and I left his house and went to the river. That's why we talk about the Rio Grande, the dividing line between Mexico and the United States, or what the Rio Grande is, but it's the Rio Bravo.
Line 280	Antonio A. Aguilar: One way or another, I'd go and say sugar, coffee, cigaretes, because over there in Terregal, you call a cigar a cigar, the name of a cigar. And a cigar is whatever you understand or not, but there it is. And there are others who call them pitillos pitillo. And if giving you a cigar is the same, but with a cigar. It was about what we call a cigar.
Line 281	Antonio A. Aguilar: What do they call it here in the United States? Very different. And that's cigar, arriving no longer stops Terregal. Cigar, which is the difference, because I went item by item with what Genaro told me, and he's given me four or five less names, tied up in the ones he writes to me.
Line 282	Antonio A. Aguilar: And so I started talking. And then, when I spoke to another person, maybe they were embarrassed or didn't like it, but I could see their mouth. Because I wanted to grasp the sound at the same time as the pronunciation and everything. And you didn't, you didn't consider it, because among other things, they would tell me...
Line 283	Antonio A. Aguilar: Are you trying?
Line 284	Antonio A. Aguilar: Like, how do you say it? And he and I saw that I told him nice. Tell me how you put your tongue on it, he said, "Look, Daddy," it means "dirty," and it's dirty, filthy.
Line 285	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I tried to say it. And I couldn't find it. How to find the word until he said to me: Fold your tongue, man. Fold it and put it like this and say, give him a Slater Ortiz of his. And I started. And so on. And many times when I talk like this to people, I have the bad habit of looking at their mouths and...
Line 286	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I think that they. It bothers them that he.
Line 287	Antonio A. Aguilar: With what they're saying. Or the dentures or something. Because some of the guys here that I worked with, because the last little job I had. Osler Gilbert calls him. And Osler is none other than the stoker who's learning to be an engineer, and when he comes to work, you help them.
Line 288	Antonio A. Aguilar: one does the work of the club that we named him and they call him Osler things.
Line 289	Antonio A. Aguilar: I put the ones I.
Line 290	Antonio A. Aguilar: I was saying some things to him, and there were some guys who seemed to have it under control. No, no. I stood there staring to see what he was saying. And one of them got really heated and couldn't take it anymore, and he snapped and said, "Come on here."
Line 291	Antonio A. Aguilar: And where I approached him. I said, "Look, many speak one way and others speak another. One by one they pronounce the words that I understand, all and all." I told him, "It seems like you're clenching your teeth and I don't understand you and I need to see you." And the boss blushed and then became serious, and without any help I said, "All right, nothing wrong, it's just the way you talk."
Line 292	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I say, I know I have it because I have bad intentions, not bad intentions. It's like I want to learn, that's all. I want to learn, and I try to say the words like I hate them. Because when I was in Arizona, all the time when I was working in Arizona, there was a middle-aged man, about 70, 65, 70 years old.
Line 293	Antonio A. Aguilar: I was there and I was the engineer where we were doing the work to be bridges.
Line 294	Antonio A. Aguilar: And among those who were there, he said one thing or another. Those who were working there saw many of the country boys showing us our land, and I didn't understand. And they looked at each other, and I said, "I understood." That's what he said. I don't know. What did the old man say to me? He said, "Something wrong?"
Line 295	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, nothing's wrong. The only thing that's wrong is that I don't know what you're saying. No, you understand me. I didn't say much, but I understand you. And I said, "Do you want to do this?" "Do you want the other?" And then he said, "I want you, okay?" I wasn't a butler and I was nothing, but he took me there so I could tell them what they wanted to do. And then he said, "I want to give you a chance."
Line 296	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I said, "Oh, chance of what?" I said, "Well, I can't be a steward." And you know, because he doesn't know, he doesn't know, and that's all, he doesn't know how to work, he doesn't know anything. And he said, "I want to give you a chance."
Line 297	Antonio A. Aguilar: And I know how I was. What did I achieve? Do you see this iron? Yes, yes, I see it. And there were them. The difference between the iron rods.
Line 298	Antonio A. Aguilar: They needed to bend them to make the bridges. Because there were some iron bars about an inch thick for the edges and especially at the bottom of the thick ones they were forming to make the bridges and pouring cement on them to give them strength, and others that were thick. But I don't know how you bent them, and I think they needed to heat them to bend them. The ones he wanted, the one he gave me the job for, were iron bars, but it had what we call a counter, what he calls a bar, a table, more accurately, that had many holes, and in the little holes, there were some pieces of steel.
Line 299	Antonio A. Aguilar: that were one. You put them in the hole because they had the hole, it was welded
Line 300	Antonio A. Aguilar: And on the wood. And when one put the little dog and one put the piece of iron and with a piece of...
Line 301	Antonio A. Aguilar: As they call it here, a piece of pipe. And you go little by little, reduced and hit it with the hammer, and one of you hits it with the hammer at the same time as the others who are moving the other end of the iron clay. They keep moving and they're not catching you, which is what he's doing, and he hits it a little bit and one arrives and then they put the other little dog on it, the other and two turn it around to the other side and so the iron is bent.
Line 302	Antonio A. Aguilar: Iron is not made of steel by taking bolts, but of the other into iron. Sweet that.
Line 303	Antonio A. Aguilar: It's not like making iron the way you want. I mean, you bent the rods so they would have one.
Line 304	Antonio A. Aguilar: Sprinkle as they say, this one had a bit of movement and it didn't make it so that it was covered in cement because one doesn't, I don't know, doesn't want to believe it, but when trucks, trains or some other place pass by, they scatter, you feel that they are not solid, they get in and you feel it, but.
Line 305	Antonio A. Aguilar: He uses this, and I don't, like I said, at work. He gave me, as he told me, the opportunity to make the piece of iron, bend it. That was all. And when it was needed, I...
Line 306	Antonio A. Aguilar: They were doing something and telling me. Tell them to tell you when they're done.
Line 307	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because there were many pieces of plank wood in the shapes of bridges. And in the scrap they had thrown away at the carpenters', there were many pieces of plank of different sizes. And he said to me, "Tell them to give you a piece of plank and I'll write to you, and you write me what I tell you it is."
Line 308	Antonio A. Aguilar: And since I wasn't the butler, no, but I told them that was what he wanted.
Line 309	Angela Luckey: So you were translating.
Line 310	Antonio A. Aguilar: That was all. But no, no, no, I wasn't a butler. No, no, no, they might have thought I was a butler, but it was me. No, no. And what I was going to refer to, which was that old Stevens.
Line 311	Antonio A. Aguilar: He said Oh, Oh, my God!
Line 312	Antonio A. Aguilar: And here are most of the rest of the Americans. Because the old man was Irish and said "Oh my God," and here they call it "in my God!"
Line 313	Antonio A. Aguilar: In He said so.
Line 314	Antonio A. Aguilar: I can't do this, I can't do that. And some say can't, and others can't, and others say one way and another, and that's why when I want to read it, I can't because I don't have enough time in my head. Stupid. Or rather, as they say in my homeland, I'm stupid.
Line 315	Antonio A. Aguilar: I don't know. I can't translate violently, and I love reading, but I read very slowly. If I want to read it by speaking it, but if I want to read it for myself, if I need to, I know what it means. And many times when I can't, my headache is there, there's another one, and there's another one. But with that one and this one, I couldn't find the words, so I bought this other one to know what they're saying.
Line 316	Antonio A. Aguilar: I like to know, but I have the misfortune of not being able to retain it in my head. I forget.
Line 317	Angela Luckey: You were educated in Mexico.
Line 318	Antonio A. Aguilar: It was the only education here, I didn't go anywhere.
Line 319	Angela Luckey: What grade did you get to or graduate from or what?
Line 320	Antonio A. Aguilar: I left. I left school because I was, as I say, in the life of being in the dirt. No, no, the idea. In fact, I want to leave it.
Line 321	Antonio A. Aguilar: Forget about it because, as I say, there. My dad tried to educate us. To make life easier.
Line 322	Antonio A. Aguilar: But because of the.
Line 323	Antonio A. Aguilar: Things that happened. The. The. I don't want to let them be forgotten. Because I left there, from here, from the Round House, and I haven't returned, and I've been away from there for almost 25 years, that's why we didn't talk. The kids stayed there; some died, and others left because they were going here to Utah.
Line 324	Antonio A. Aguilar: They tell me the place isn't what it was like before because they say they've already removed the entire round house. That's why they called it the Round House, because it was horseshoe-shaped and it wasn't round, round, like the one who made the round table at the turntable. But it was like this. Like a horseshoe. And here the 4, 5
Line 325	Antonio A. Aguilar: Railway lines and four brought the trains, they took it out, disconnected it in the engine, and when he came here, among the other jobs I did, they called him the farnucker. And that's nothing other than the same thing that the word means: knocked one down, tied it to the fire, and the ashes left the grates empty, and with the least they could, all the ashes and everyone.
Line 326	Antonio A. Aguilar: And there, after they'd taken away everything they were doing, it was the best, because you'd heat the machine to 250 pounds, because while it was cooling, while you took off the fire, the water, they cooled at the same time as when they went further back because there was a place where some were. We planted regular mass graves. I don't know how deep it was, but the depth, I don't know, is not relevant because it was a hole in the ground under the train tracks like a bridge.
Line 327	Antonio A. Aguilar: And when they came in, someone would serve them the grills and then, with a hoe, remove all the clinker from everything they put on it. They would take it out because the bates pin, as they call it, could be melted very close to where the partner's feet are on the wall. And that requires a rake, more or less. Let's see how it is.
Line 328	Antonio A. Aguilar: The whole fist is made of iron this high. The same as the blade and heavy, and you give it the starting lever here, you give it a lift and it falls, and wherever it falls, and then you pull it out and it brings all the clinker seeds and everything else that's left, because not all grills can be turned so that everything is emptied.
Line 329	Antonio A. Aguilar: They emptied each other to loosen the glue. And I did that little job.
Line 330	Antonio A. Aguilar: And as I say, I think they removed the graves that were in the Round House because there was a...
Line 331	Antonio A. Aguilar: How can I tell you, like a crate, like a crate of
Line 332	Antonio A. Aguilar: Of pipes, of steam, and it was a little more or less, I think like that before.
Line 333	Antonio A. Aguilar: From 36 to 40 feet. Something like 40 inches. Because when the machine is inside the Round House, they would get into that cavity and could stand upright, at the distance from where the wheels lifted them to the machine, they could almost stand up and move. And those who went in there.
Line 334	Antonio A. Aguilar: They came in to fix whatever was loose. According to the report the machinists had, they'd say, "I feel this, I feel that," because, well, they never noticed that, but they were probably told, "Mhm," because when they put them in there, they left. They already knew where to go to work there. Other times, they...
Line 335	Antonio A. Aguilar: Five years, they say, they got inside the boiler. And that's it? They got inside. They changed them.
Line 336	Antonio A. Aguilar: The grills or him. They put a... They have air hammers. Mhm. Uh, with the hammer there they have their tool. Some have where there's something that has a spike and a half-moon shape that puts it on the control where they have it, it's a super heater and they put it in like this and they read it through the hammer.
Line 337	Antonio A. Aguilar: They start hitting it, hitting it, and sawing where the lick was, the name where the water came out and the steam was lost, and they, as I say, there are many different jobs. That's the difference. And they tell me now that all of that is covered up and that they destroyed the house because it was a house. It's round, but not in the closed shape like a circle.
Line 338	Antonio A. Aguilar: But the way I don't.
Line 339	Antonio A. Aguilar: From a horseshoe that can't be done. It can't be any other way. Mhm. Because five lines come in, and all these five lines when the lines are two, what is it?
Line 340	Antonio A. Aguilar: This is it. Here's the round house. And here are the five lines.
Line 341	Antonio A. Aguilar: And a machine would arrive after they removed the locksmith. It had already removed everything. They would walk them a little bit, and then they would wash them here.
Line 342	Antonio A. Aguilar: They have. It had oil mixed with water and steam. Hot water. And when I released one, steam suddenly came out, like hot water, and they had it. They grabbed them and poured the grease, the oil, and everything else they'd picked up along the way. Then they took it off so the others could see where to work. The bad thing is it wasted time, so I put in a £250 steam generator so that while I took the heat off, they washed it and put it in.
Line 343	Antonio A. Aguilar: Then when they brought him in, there were 52 or 53. I don't remember the 52, 53 pits anymore. Those cavities they went under to work inside the round house, because everyone was like that.
Line 344	Antonio A. Aguilar: From inside the house to the door.
Line 345	Antonio A. Aguilar: To the one inside the house.
Line 346	Antonio A. Aguilar: The house in the day center, which was a house here, not a house at all, was called a table, the table, and the table. Here in the center, there was a piece of iron. I can't say "pipe" because it was quite thick, very thick. It was in the center, here in the center. Should I say that's the house, the table, the machine, right?
Line 347	Antonio A. Aguilar: Mhm. And one moved it with electricity.
Line 348	Antonio A. Aguilar: Where to point it to where it was with direction.
Line 349	Antonio A. Aguilar: Al to the to the taques. Where were they? Where were they going to enter? Around the house. That's why they call it Turn table, because the table turns, it doesn't go where it wants. Should I repeat it one. And if it goes? If it comes backwards. Either it's going to come out or the other way around. Depending on where they call it, it has to turn around so it enters the round house with its front.
Line 350	Antonio A. Aguilar: All of you to the wall, because the doors are one and the wall where they cover them in front of the other and this when they move one's tablet, the, the the.
Line 351	Antonio A. Aguilar: Just like where it is, where they're going to go in, and how they're now saying that all the work I did with the turntable operator and many, many other jobs, among others, if it's not, that's what they say, it's already finished because they knocked down the entire wall, removed all the trackers, and covered the pits. As I said, the pits were there.
Line 352	Antonio A. Aguilar: Digging holes so deep, not much more than enough to walk under the machines. From time to time they had to pull out the irons, but they worked. And all that doesn't exist anymore. But.
Line 353	Antonio A. Aguilar: Now I think about them, having thought about them.
Line 354	Antonio A. Aguilar: What was and what, what was and what is. Because it amounts to the same thing as this. I remember.
Line 355	Antonio A. Aguilar: It's worth more than stopping it.
Line 356	Antonio A. Aguilar: Say? 23, 22, 23, 24. Something like that.
Line 357	Antonio A. Aguilar: A new trend came along, called "pinkers," and the pinkers started wearing calf-length dresses. Mhm. And this reminds me because since I like vintage things, I like to see them. Look.
Line 358	Angela Luckey: Mhm. Just like later.
Line 359	Angela Luckey: This is where Washington said.
Line 360	Antonio A. Aguilar: This isn't Mexico, it's just the United States. But when I came here, this is how people walked. Mhm. This is how people dressed.
Line 361	Antonio A. Aguilar: That is the difference between someone who started living later.
Line 362	Antonio A. Aguilar: With.
Line 363	Antonio A. Aguilar: The Round House no longer exists. All that is flat. How many more buildings? I don't know, because I didn't retire. I retired and I haven't been back. I haven't returned because I'd had enough of what I saw. It was enough. And I don't have a business, as they say here. What should I do there? Take things? No, no, my Harry. First of all, I have no business to do.
Line 364	Antonio A. Aguilar: Second, I don't know anyone, they're all strangers, I don't know anyone, no one knows me or what I'm going to do.
Line 365	Antonio A. Aguilar: And they tell me that they have destroyed many of the buildings that were there because they removed the Basquiat, the round house and the.
Line 366	Antonio A. Aguilar: Other buildings.
Line 367	Antonio A. Aguilar: And me. I often like things like me, old people, elderly people, everyone. But, what about me?
Line 368	Antonio A. Aguilar: As I said and I repeat, I like to be respectful. I don't have any business. What am I doing?
Line 369	Angela Luckey: So. Oh, well, thanks so much for everything.
Line 370	Antonio A. Aguilar: No, on the contrary. Please forgive me for not giving you any more, for not being able to express myself as best I could.
Line 371	Antonio A. Aguilar: If we were.
Line 372	Antonio A. Aguilar: About the sex between the two of us, about what happened on the other side. Well, it's better to leave it as it is. And I leave respect. What I left there has already stayed. Yes. And we talk about here, about what happened here, because it's very different. And given your time. They can't speak as clearly as I can anymore. At least as I say, I'm uneducated.
Line 373	Antonio A. Aguilar: That's why when they say one thing and another they say I don't know how to read or write.
Line 374	Angela Luckey: But I saw a letter you wrote.
Line 375	Antonio A. Aguilar: You.
Line 376	Angela Luckey: I saw a letter that you wrote in very fine handwriting.
Line 377	Antonio A. Aguilar: Thanks a lot for it. As they say here. No. It's no, but I tell the boys.
Line 378	Antonio A. Aguilar: Because Antonio.
Line 379	Antonio A. Aguilar: He's one of the boy's children. Because Evaristo. In his family, there are three girls and only one boy. And this boy. And now he's married. Yes, I have them somewhere. They give me photographs, but they're missing the ones. And then, like...
Line 380	Antonio A. Aguilar: I'd like to tell you, but I can't do anything I want to do, because here, after the initial burn, even a hand on the wood, just like the floor, everything went awry. There was a click, a click, and I had to take down the boards and put some things back in because I couldn't buy anything going in and out.
Line 381	Antonio A. Aguilar: A carpet that we call it, first of all, because going and going and with our feet covered in dirt and all of one thing and another. And here, when you see it, when the... During the rest of the day, most of the sunlight comes from here, right up to here, very close to where the bike's legs are and me.
Line 382	Antonio A. Aguilar: Well, I defend myself as best I can, and the only way I can do it is from the soil, from the pots, and I have them there because... And my old lady told me every time I went to the hospital because she had sugar diabetes, a bad heart.
Line 383	Antonio A. Aguilar: me too.

Barbosa, Pablo

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: I'd like to start with this, just tell me how you decided to come to the state of Idaho and the experiences you had arriving here.
Line 2	Pablo Barbosa: Well, I worked on a ranch in San Juan and I worked there for many years and all the boys were there, the children still, right? The oldest was Ramiro, he was 15 years old and every year people who go up north, here, to Ohio, Michigan, and you see, I got the courage and I came with a truck driver from San Juan, who now lives here in Nampa, but it only lasted a while, like two years after living with him, I no longer wanted to live with him, it's true, and he started working on other things here, but I only worked with him, well, me and the family, like
Line 3	Pablo Barbosa: Three months with him. And then there were some things I didn't like, which he wanted me to do. I wanted me to pay for his social security number and help him pay not only for myself, but also for those he had brought in his truck. For the truck insurance, to bring people here, and I told him I wouldn't. I'm not going to help you with anything, because if you want the business of bringing people in and making money off of them, and he's not going to help you pay for the insurance because that's your business, you want to do that work, you pay for it.
Line 4	Pablo Barbosa: Well, sure. And in those days, I met a man named Pedro Guajaluda there at the Franklin farm, and he was bringing people here to Jape and Houston, and I went with him to see if he had work for us. And he said yes, of course! And from there we moved to Wuardoli, and I worked there that year.
Line 5	Pablo Barbosa: At night, during the coffee run, the butler put me in charge. I didn't know, nor did I know the age or the boss, what we worked with. I, the lady there. And I think Ramiro did too, because he was already old enough to work there too.
Line 6	Unknown Speaker: Boys did it like that too.
Line 7	Pablo Barbosa: Yes, this one. And we started it to see the Valley and then yes, at the end of the year to ask the boss for money or from him or from Pedro. We did this until 75, when my wife and I finally decided to stay here, like then telling the truth first, see how the weather is here and here we are living, but everything, all the kids who were young, well, we struggled in this way. The truth is, no, one did not make enough money and one has to work in the valley when I come in the winter to have this.
Line 8	Pablo Barbosa: enough with the expenses.
Line 9	Martha Torrez: Can you describe what it is? What do you remember most about the beginning of your arrival here? What memories or recollections do you have of this state from the beginning of your arrival here?
Line 10	Pablo Barbosa: Well, when we arrived, it was said to be very ugly, right? It's one of the things that, uh, mmm, this.
Line 11	Martha Torrez: But as time goes by, or just the community.
Line 12	Pablo Barbosa: Well, when we came here, it was April 1968, around the 28th, 29th, 28th. We left in April 1968, and we arrived there around the 2nd or 1st of May. We barely had any time here, since it wasn't any cooler, but we did stay until November. And Ramiro and I worked at the Sugar Mill. And that's when we first saw snow.
Line 13	Pablo Barbosa: The first time we knew snow.
Line 14	Martha Torrez: They had a hard time finding their first job here in Idaho.
Line 15	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, no, there weren't. Weren't there any problems with that issue, because first of all, until '75, like '74, we were still coming with Pedro and the financial problems that were offered to him there in the Valley to come, well, we covered them with him, right? He didn't help us and then when he worked here, we paid him what I had asked him to come here is that no, there wasn't much of a problem with that and And he was the one who did the work, he, he got the job and...
Line 16	Pablo Barbosa: And when there wasn't any work in Japeo, he had work here in the desert, and also in other places in Vetabel. He brought people in Vetabel. And when the Japeo workers were there for two or three days, they would also go to Vetabel, where there wasn't any work, there were no battles, we didn't suffer from lack of work. And then, as we got to know each other, she would go apple picking, and I bought my truck, and another one started working with a truck, and then the first guy got married, and then another one got married, and...
Line 17	Pablo Barbosa: But no, there has been no problem in terms of struggling to work.
Line 18	Martha Torrez: And once they arrived in the State of Idaho, they stayed here or continued migrating from one.
Line 19	Pablo Barbosa: State, not from one state to another, not just from here to Texas. Well, if it's from another state, right? But not for another state, to work, right? Well, from '68 to '74 we returned to our home, and the three of us returned in '75 in February, because that was the year our third son got married here, and we came early to get him married, to see him get married, and then we stayed.
Line 20	Pablo Barbosa: We haven't gone like twice in that 75-year period until now, just for vacations, but before 74 we did migrate back and ford
Line 21	Martha Torrez: What do I remember about the treatment of Mexicans? I mean, how they were treated by other people under the rule of law. Do you recall any experiences where you think you were treated differently, or what can you tell us about that?
Line 22	Pablo Barbosa: No, well, I don't. I have nothing to say because we didn't, there never were, there were no problems. So, the truth is, I never heard of anyone or any company or any boss treating us badly or saying anything bad. No, I don't remember us going through that.
Line 23	Martha Torrez: It reminds us that.
Line 24	Pablo Barbosa: It's so familiar. It's assumed, but not for us personally.
Line 25	Martha Torrez: But that you know of other people.
Line 26	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, no no.
Line 27	Martha Torrez: No.
Line 28	Martha Torrez: Um. And what's the reason you decided to stay here in this state?
Line 29	Pablo Barbosa: The reason we stayed. Because all the children are here.
Line 30	Pablo Barbosa: Everyone is here except for one daughter who's in Phoenix. But since there are seven children, there are six here. Or rather, not seven. Here, there are eight, and that's why we stayed. And then at the same time, there are more opportunities for work, otherwise you can't work in the winter, but in other places there are more opportunities for work than where we lived in Texas.
Line 31	Martha Torrez: So the job opportunity was always one of the reasons
Line 32	Pablo Barbosa: So, well, we all stayed because there was only one married, two married. When we stayed, the others got married. Afterwards, we were here talking.
Line 33	Martha Torrez: Well, then since you are an American citizen, I.
Line 34	Pablo Barbosa: Yes, I was born in Macarena, New Mexico, and my wife is from eastern Mexico.
Line 35	Martha Torrez: Now, if you could tell us something about the experiences Doña María went through, sorting out the documents or what was really needed to be able to enter this country. Do you recall any positive or negative experiences you've had, battles, or...
Line 36	Pablo Barbosa: We got married on November 47th, and no, no, I didn't get her a passport until 1950 because she was sent to Reynosa twice, and that's when I had to get her a passport. From that date on, but there was no unappealable battle because there was no justice. While I was in Blacks, nothing, I didn't fight at all.
Line 37	Martha Torrez: When she says that they threw her to Mexico, the migration, the migration, eh, During the time that.
Line 38	Pablo Barbosa: No, well, at that time she still wasn't working well, she didn't, she didn't work, she doesn't work, she didn't work until we came here because she had many children.
Line 39	Pablo Barbosa: To raise, to maintain.
Line 40	Martha Torrez: I mean, it wasn't a negative experience at immigration. How did they know whether you were documented or not?
Line 41	Pablo's Wife: Because migration was very tough, the causes went. It went to the houses
Line 42	Martha Torrez: Can you describe one of those? The experience, how it happened and what? What experiences did you have with them? Did they treat you badly when they threw you out? How does that happen?
Line 43	Pablo's Wife: They did mistreat him, they treated him badly, because he went to leave me. And then they treated him very badly.
Line 44	Pablo Barbosa: It wasn't bad, it's just that they wouldn't let me talk to her, that's all, no, they wouldn't let me get close, they had her in their bag, no, I don't remember what, but they wouldn't let me get close and that feels very, very bad. It's true that the lady also goes to the other side and you're left alone here. And then I had to live alone for a few two, three months, I managed to fix it up.
Line 45	Martha Torrez: And where were you staying this time?
Line 46	Pablo's Wife: He was staying with an aunt of his in Reinosa.
Line 47	Pablo Barbosa: Hey? Every week he went, he went to see me
Line 48	Martha Torrez: Tell us about your experiences, like you said you had two experiences where you were thrown.
Line 49	Pablo's Wife: Once or twice, not once, once
Line 50	Pablo Barbosa: Once
Line 51	Pablo's Wife: Then, well, he was going there to see me and so I got the courage and came back by the river again.
Line 52	Pablo's Wife: I passed by
Line 53	Pablo Barbosa: That was a little one.
Line 54	Pablo's Wife: But since he was the husband of godmother Licha, Mario passed me, he passed me again by the river.
Line 55	Martha Torrez: Let's see, tell me a little about that time when you really crossed the river?
Line 56	Pablo Barbosa: I passed by the river once.
Line 57	Pablo's Wife: I went there once with my little son, Ramiro. Oh, right? Yes, with Ramiro. When I went from there to the paca with Ramiro.
Line 58	Pablo Barbosa: Yeah.
Line 59	Martha Torrez: It was night or day and I had.
Line 60	Pablo's Wife: What an afternoon.
Line 61	Martha Torrez: And he had to walk from one side to the other.
Line 62	Pablo Barbosa: Cross the river on foot.
Line 63	Martha Torrez: And once I crossed what happened.
Line 64	Pablo Barbosa: Someone who would come and pick me up.
Line 65	Pablo's Wife: Get up.
Line 66	Pablo Barbosa: I.
Line 67	Pablo's Wife: Interesting.
Line 68	Martha Torrez: Yes, yes. Regarding education, they had this guy. Excuse me for a moment, I wanted to ask you before moving on to another topic. When you say they threw her to Mexico, they took her to wherever, wherever you were, they left her there.
Line 69	Pablo's Wife: No, just up to the bridge
Line 70	Pablo Barbosa: Just to Reynosa, just from the bridge to Reynosa.
Line 71	Martha Torrez: So from the bridge to go there you were you were as you could to return to your.
Line 72	Pablo's Wife: Town.
Line 73	Martha Torrez: On the subject of education, huh? Can you tell me something about how many years?
Line 74	Pablo Barbosa: She didn't, she didn't have a formal education, I only had up to 7th grade, for the simple reason that my sister and I were orphaned and. And one of my dad's brothers, that is, an uncle with five families took us in and. And he could barely handle his family and because of that loss there was the opportunity for him to send me to school even up to 7th grade and to ask for high school
Line 75	Pablo Barbosa: No, he didn't have the money needed for books or whatever, right? In high school. If he had had the means to do that, well, I think I would have had a free education, losing high school, but not at that time. He earned $20 a week. He had five families besides him and his aunt. And then me and my sister.
Line 76	Pablo Barbosa: Well no, he couldn't send us to... he can't send me to... my high school. He only had an education up to that level.
Line 77	Martha Torrez: How old were your parents and how old were you?
Line 78	Pablo Barbosa: I don't know the age at which they died. It's only noted down my mom and when she was born, and my dad, when they got married, and when I was born, and my sister, and a sister before I died. But I have no idea.
Line 79	Pablo Barbosa: She was probably 33 or four, because she still has a sort of 33 on her hand. My brother was born in 32, and I think my dad died in 36 or seven. But no, no, no, I have no way of verifying when they were born.
Line 80	Martha Torrez: His father died first and then his mother
Line 81	Pablo Barbosa: She first at 20... Well my sister is 58 years old.
Line 82	Pablo Barbosa: She was 20 years old. When I was born, I think she died when she was 22 or 23.
Line 83	Martha Torrez: On the topic of education. Back to education again. What do you remember? I mean, your earliest memories of your education when you were in school?
Line 84	Pablo Barbosa: Well, when I was in school, I remember there wasn't any of that. There wasn't any soccer. There wasn't any basketball back then, a long time ago, like 50 years ago. There isn't that whole academy like there is in another one, right? There's a lot, a lot of sports. And it's almost like all there was was BASIC, just reading and writing, right?
Line 85	Pablo Barbosa: That was it. During recess, I'd go outside to play and shout, at my age, which was about 12 or 13. I think it was when I stopped going to school.
Line 86	Martha Torrez: They were migrants, their family was migrants. At that time, you were attending school.
Line 87	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, no, not at that time, not knowing anything about those migrants. My uncle who asked us worked for about 40 years as a cinnamon picker in the small town of San Juan, Texas, and he had some cows, and after school I would go take care of the animals in the garden, right?
Line 88	Pablo Barbosa: And this one. And then there was a time when I went with an uncle who was the one who got my social security number, more like my aunt, and when I was about 14, I worked for two weeks at Manga Word, there in McAllen, also many years ago. And then I went back to the uncle who raised us after my dad died.
Line 89	Martha Torrez: Is this guy who raised them still alive?
Line 90	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, he's already dead. He died 15 years ago, I think, and he's already about 80 years old. Him too. When he died.
Line 91	Martha Torrez: Um. What do you think about education? Do you think it's important or what?
Line 92	Pablo Barbosa: Oh, I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. I believe that everything, everything, every person should have. If not the best education, then the most education they can get.
Line 93	Martha Torrez: I think you've seen educational opportunities here in Idaho change compared to how they were before, right? When you were in school, what do you think? Do you think there are better opportunities now, or have you seen educational opportunities improve for people here in Idaho?
Line 94	Pablo Barbosa: I think it's much better. And then there's the advantage that even if I don't know how to speak English, I have a way. There are places where I can go if I want to learn to speak English or speak English better, or for someone who, for certain reasons, couldn't get that education because of poverty or because they had to stay home when they were young.
Line 95	Pablo Barbosa: Helping the rest of the family can mean doing it now, when it's often too late, for example, to obtain a GDI, because one is already advanced in years. But yes, it's much better.
Line 96	Martha Torrez: Language was a problem for you while you were attending school.
Line 97	Pablo's Wife: Do I know them?
Line 98	Pablo Barbosa: No, because my mom, my mom was American, and then my dad was Mexican, so that wasn't a problem. And no, it's never been for...
Line 99	Martha Torrez: His mother was American
Line 100	Pablo Barbosa: Hey.
Line 101	Martha Torrez: She also spoke Spanish.
Line 102	Pablo Barbosa: I don't know. I didn't know her, no, I didn't know her. I remember my dad once, like in a dream, taking me behind the horse. He rode behind me. But that's all.
Line 103	Martha Torrez: What you don't remember then, or what your father didn't tell you, is the story of how it happened. How was it?
Line 104	Pablo Barbosa: I never remember. I used to talk to him because he was already very, very young, and from what I remember, it seems like he did. I remember he sent me to school south of Magdalena, a little ranch, a little spot they call the big place. And I remember it was a single building with several classes with one teacher, and then from there he moved to San Juan and got sick and died, and this is it.
Line 105	Pablo Barbosa: Yes, I do remember that. But no, I don't remember talking to him.
Line 106	Martha Torrez: How old do you say you were when your father died?
Line 107	Pablo Barbosa: And I think he was about eight years old, I think. Seven, because I don't know when he died. That's why I can't say how old he was. I don't know. And I've never made the decision to go to the Falls where they tell me he was buried there to see if there was a place where one could find out about that.
Line 108	Pablo Barbosa: And then they told me my mom is buried in McAllen, but I haven't made the effort to go. It's just that I don't feel any love for them either because I didn't know them, and since I didn't know them, I don't remember them. Well, no, they never gave me any. They give me the courage to know where that portal is, by the way, or where it is. It's as if they were strangers to me, because I didn't know them.
Line 109	Martha Torrez: So I don't remember having gone through or suffered much from the absence of his parents because he was very young and then he was immediately taken in by his uncle.
Line 110	Pablo Barbosa: Well, that was it, I'm not saying that it was a struggle either because
Line 111	Pablo Barbosa: I did when my uncle raised us. My sister, I was the one who went out with the animals to eat. No, no, his children. His nephew, right? Uh, no, no, I don't, I don't, no, I'm not saying that I suffered or that if I remember, I do remember that he came, he was coming home with the cows, and then I saw him get out of bed and...
Line 112	Pablo Barbosa: And even though I was still young, an idea came to me. I said, maybe my dad died because he's sick, I don't know what. And if he had died, and I started crying because I saw my uncle and aunt crying, not because of that, because I didn't feel anything. Because my dad had died.
Line 113	Pablo Barbosa: That he was very small.
Line 114	Unknown Speaker: Well, seeing this.
Line 115	Pablo Barbosa: It's hers
Line 116	Martha Torrez: I have a photo of his mother
Line 117	Pablo's Wife: She is German
Line 118	Pablo Barbosa: I'd say she's 20 years old. Seven months. Well, seven months, or three months. And there, there, there I put him behind her.
Line 119	Pablo's Wife: If not, no, what.
Line 120	Pablo Barbosa: Be like him.
Line 121	Pablo Barbosa: At 17 and 18 I worked with a veterinarian there in Texas.
Line 122	Martha Torrez: Well, this was his first job that he had.
Line 123	Pablo's Wife: Hey?
Line 124	Pablo Barbosa: Yes, because before that, it was fishing for tomatoes and things. Not much, right? But, uh, for hours and quite a few weeks, it was with a veterinarian, and then from there I got a job on a ranch where I stayed for 17 years. There, on that ranch, we all ended up on a ranch where we tended gardens. A boss who took over gardens from northerners and they took care of the northerners who lived there in Michigan, in other states, uh.
Line 125	Martha Torrez: So your first job, how old do you say you were when you were?
Line 126	Pablo Barbosa: I say maybe 17, 17 years old. Well, I worked for two, like two weeks before that. I don't remember how old I was. Two, three weeks.
Line 127	Martha Torrez: But do you remember the payment? How did they pay you? What was it?
Line 128	Pablo Barbosa: He does it very, very far back.
Line 129	Pablo Barbosa: And then with the vet, he paid me $18 a week. And then? Well, when I got the ranch job, I first went to Michigan. A year. I worked three months at the General Motors office, the two 75, an hour, which was good money at the time. I had enough to meet her and get married. I hadn't even met her yet.
Line 130	Martha Torrez: How did they meet?
Line 131	Pablo's Wife: Huh? In a restaurant, Martha. And only eight days of dating.
Line 132	Martha Torrez: We lasted eight and they got married when they got married and had a big wedding.
Line 133	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, no, no.
Line 134	Pablo's Wife: Because she was wet. No.
Line 135	Martha Torrez: At what age did they get married?
Line 136	Pablo Barbosa: 18 and 19. I'm 18 of 19. And still.
Line 137	Martha Torrez: Eight days after their acquaintances, the cases were not settled before the judge.
Line 138	Pablo's Wife: I don't know.
Line 139	Martha Torrez: Do you think there are different ways women and men have been treated? Let's go back to work again. This. Do you think there are different ways women and men have been treated at work? Do you think they are treated differently?
Line 140	Pablo Barbosa: Well, I can only say about the work I know. Because the jobs I've worked in, where we've worked, have been paid equally, and it's the kind of work I know because I don't know any other kind of work. It's just pure labor, and there, yes, they've been paid equally.
Line 141	Pablo Barbosa: When you're here working part-time, well, everyone earns the same. But even if it's in a shop, in an office. Not from experience, but from what I read there, women don't earn the same as men. And if there are women who take the same work as men, they should earn the same as men, but if they don't take the same work as men, they shouldn't earn the same as men.
Line 142	Pablo Barbosa: Because?
Line 143	Pablo Barbosa: It's my experience, I've only had work, labor, what I've seen. Women and men earn the same, labor together with the son and daughter, right? But I don't know why it hasn't happened in other jobs.
Line 144	Martha Torrez: What do I think? It's that Mexican-American workers are generally treated fairly in Idaho.
Line 145	Pablo Barbosa: Well, I haven't had any experience where I haven't been treated the wrong way, because we're talking about my truth and my wife's right now. And I don't know what's going on.
Line 146	Martha Torrez: He doesn't know.
Line 147	Pablo Barbosa: I don't know about other people, so I can't say yes or no among my people. No, I don't think they've ever treated me badly, because I'm not a gringo, but because I'm Mexican American. It's just that from that personal experience I say that they've treated me well, but I don't know about others. But I have read where there are people who haven't treated them well, but I can't say that's the case.
Line 148	Pablo Barbosa: In general.
Line 149	Martha Torrez: Because they either received it or had already told the truth. This guy, the house he has right now, is renting it out or owning it, or is buying it.
Line 150	Pablo Barbosa: No, it's my own, and well, I have someone to take care of it, but the house isn't there, there isn't one, there's no one, I don't want it, I don't want to rent it or I don't want it, I want it to fall apart on its own and not have to break it down, because I live too far away to get there, corresponding in the matter of the window being broken, which is broken. I'm very far away from here.
Line 151	Pablo Barbosa: I don't know if it's true that there's enough money to buy it, and if it isn't true, well, there's the house. But who sees me there as this other house where I have it? Who sees me there? On the other hand, if I have someone living there, he has more respect, he lives there without paying anything.
Line 152	Martha Torrez: And this house where they are living?
Line 153	Pablo Barbosa: If I don't know them, because I know there's someone there who might know them, no. But no, no, I don't know them, but I do know there's someone there who commands respect. The place.
Line 154	Martha Torrez: And this house where they live right now, this is yours too, this other thing.
Line 155	Pablo Barbosa: From the owner of my job.
Line 156	Martha Torrez: Either he provides for it no matter what.
Line 157	Pablo's Wife: Along with your work.
Line 158	Martha Torrez: He has lived in other towns in the State of Idaho or nothing else.
Line 159	Pablo Barbosa: Right here, Walter and this Houston, a small town in Houston. And right here, in those 22 years we've been getting to know orchids.
Line 160	Martha Torrez: I'd say it is. What's your favorite place in Idaho?
Line 161	Pablo Barbosa: I liked the three places I've been, except that I changed because of the job I was running out of. But no, I didn't leave a job just because I wanted to. This time I was working for another boss, and he went bankrupt, and I had to leave, and he found another one.
Line 162	Pablo Barbosa: Well, I haven't always found anything, but I've been lucky enough to have good owners who provide for me. They lend me the house, right?
Line 163	Martha Torrez: Regarding family, do you think it's important to keep the family together? Do your children live near you or far away?
Line 164	Pablo Barbosa: No, they're all close to here, but I don't think they should be close. I think they should be where they want to be, or where they feel comfortable, or where work calls them. But in my case, they're all here, all around. And the farthest one is in Phoenix.
Line 165	Pablo Barbosa: But I'm not saying that they should be close to the others, that because they are children they shouldn't be where work demands them or they are comfortable with them because they have to live their life. No, no, not something that one can tell them if I end up being there, the way to communicate with them, with them together, with the others by phone, right?
Line 166	Pablo Barbosa: Or if not, a visit from them.
Line 167	Martha Torrez: On holidays, days, parties, do you all come together as a family or do you still think this is an individual thing?
Line 168	Martha Torrez: Yes, we were talking about family unity, how they still come together on occasions like May 5th, Mother's Day, or Christmas.
Line 169	Pablo Barbosa: Almost all of the family joined us, like in Thanksgiven those who can come, because the sons or daughters who are married also join them.
Line 170	Pablo Barbosa: The daughters-in-law also have their parents, and often they can't go to two places on the same day. Some come, others can't, because they also have their families who need to go and celebrate for a while and chat. So, with us, some come, others don't for that reason, but we do make it up from time to time.
Line 171	Pablo Barbosa: The lady starts making them meals that she likes to make and sometimes just because she wants to do something, she does it and talks to them so they want to come, see if it's nice, if not.
Line 172	Martha Torrez: They are like meetings.
Line 173	Pablo's Wife: Yeah
Line 174	Pablo Barbosa: It doesn't need to be a special occasion.
Line 175	Martha Torrez: What customs or values do you think have been followed since ancient times? That you still remember and that are still present in your customs that were taught to you.
Line 176	Martha Torrez: Customs or you can describe the customs of your family and things that you think have been followed from generation to generation.
Line 177	Pablo Barbosa: Customs in English. True this
Line 178	Pablo Barbosa: I don't think we have any special customs that we pursue.
Line 179	Pablo Barbosa: It's like a birthday. Well, my idea of a birthday, given that I have many grandchildren, is that we don't usually throw a party for the grandchildren. Well, there are a lot of them, and then there are a lot of children. It's just that we here can't do one, for example, every time a grandson or granddaughter comes, because there are a lot of them, it's more a matter of custom.
Line 180	Martha Torrez: Regarding the customs, traditions, that is, that we have been taught or that you were taught as a child, I think it is important to maintain those Mexican traditions and customs.
Line 181	Pablo Barbosa: Well, no, no, I didn't have the opportunity to be taught customs because... Is it based on, for example, how in Mexico, Mexicans have the custom of Christmas Posadas, right? Well, I don't know what that is. No, I have a very good answer for that.
Line 182	Martha Torrez: That question you're asking, Doña María, knowing that you know more about Mexican customs, right? Like, for example, the posadas you mentioned. Do you think Mexican customs and traditions are important for maintaining a family?
Line 183	Pablo's Wife: Well, I think so.
Line 184	Pablo Barbosa: Well, here in the United States, no, it's not done that way. Honestly, I don't know if they do it in Mexico. That's where it's customary to do it, but here I have a rough idea of what a posada is, right? But it's not customary here. Or at least we don't; we're not used to doing anything.
Line 185	Pablo Barbosa: The particular one, just as it is. On May 5th, well, I don't know what it's about because it's not historical, I don't remember it as a day. Should I say on sick leave that I'm not going to work because it's May 5th in Mexico, and I know that because I read that it's an important day for Mexico, for the people of Mexico. Mhm. But for
Line 186	Pablo Barbosa: Possibly the Mexican one, right? The one you know what it's about.
Line 187	Martha Torrez: Regarding the identity you're talking about, one is Mexican, the other is Mexican, American, Chicano. How do you identify yourself personally?
Line 188	Pablo Barbosa: I don't say I'm Mexican because I wasn't born in Mexico.
Line 189	Pablo Barbosa: I gave the name "Mexican" to someone who was born and a Mexican citizen through their wife, right? But generally, it's "American," right? Everyone speaks Spanish, speaks Hispanic with a Mexican name, but I don't remember that word being correct because not all of us are Mexican. Many of us have parents of Mexicans, so we're not Mexican because we weren't born there in Mexico, Americans, and there's that difference I don't see, that we're all Mexican, right?
Line 190	Martha Torrez: Do you consider yourself Mexican? American?
Line 191	Pablo Barbosa: Why? Because I was born here, but my father was American, this Mexican, and my mother's father was German, and her mother was Indian. I'm already 1/4 Indian, 1/4 German, and half Mexican. It sounds like a Mexican, but I don't consider myself Mexican no matter what I call it; it's what I consider myself, and that's how it should be considered.
Line 192	Pablo Barbosa: Anyone who is not a native of Mexico cannot call themselves Mexican.
Line 193	Martha Torrez: So you would think that because he is Mexican American, he probably gets used to more American things, because he was born here.
Line 194	Pablo Barbosa: Yes, because I've never seen events celebrated in Mexico, right? In Mexico, because I haven't been there. When those celebrations are held, I only know they're held because Mexico also had its Independence Day, and it's different from what we have here. And possibly in Mexico, Thanksgiving Day isn't celebrated because they know well what we all celebrate here, it's more of an American event, and I think it's more of a Mexican one.
Line 195	Martha Torrez: In terms of religion, do you think religion is the most important religion in your family?
Line 196	Pablo Barbosa: Well, we have not become religious.
Line 197	Pablo Barbosa: But not from experience. But I do believe that religion can do good in the family, especially since we aren't religious ourselves. No, we don't want anyone telling us what we should be, nor are we going to tell others what they should be like in matters of religion alone.
Line 198	Pablo Barbosa: No, we don't get used to religion.
Line 199	Pablo's Wife: I do.
Line 200	Pablo Barbosa: In the mind. But I mean like going to church. There are some very strange things like that, like many families and customs every week. Well, that's how it is.
Line 201	Pablo's Wife: Religious is not a way of.
Line 202	Pablo Barbosa: How Lutheran.
Line 203	Pablo Barbosa: Yeah.
Line 204	Martha Torrez: What would you say is more important to you, being Mexican or American?
Line 205	Pablo Barbosa: The most important thing.
Line 206	Pablo Barbosa: When it makes me a good citizen, it's that. What more can I say? Right?
Line 207	Pablo Barbosa: A citizen, right? Because it's not about a father.
Line 208	Martha Torrez: Your ability to be bilingual or speak Spanish is important to everyone.
Line 209	Pablo Barbosa: Of course. And of course, I think that because I speak two languages, I'm better than people who only speak one because I know both languages.
Line 210	Pablo Barbosa: Because there are young Mexican Americans there who only know English, because otherwise, they'd be nothing. They're young, they're going to school, and it's the purest language, pure English. And then at home, they speak pure English to them. They don't try to teach them the language their parents taught them, so they just speak pure English. Beyond that, when they grow up and want a good job, they think they want a good job, so they'll have to study to speak Spanish and to write and read it when it should come naturally to them at home.
Line 211	Pablo Barbosa: You don't have to study that subject. When it's Mexican American, people don't have to study it to write and read it.
Line 212	Martha Torrez: And do you think it's important for all your children to speak Spanish too?
Line 213	Pablo Barbosa: It's important because that's what they talk about. That's the language at home, and they speak English when they have to speak it, where they work or where they go to the store, or they have to speak English, right? But it's the language they speak at home. Except for a son and a daughter-in-law, who, well, the daughter-in-law is sometimes American and gringo, and she's there teaching Spanish to her children.
Line 214	Pablo Barbosa: Because dad is a Mexican American, my son. Yes.
Line 215	Martha Torrez: I know we discussed a bit about the different treatment between Mexicans and Americans. Um. Have any members of your family experienced any discrimination here during your time in the state of anger? And when I say discrimination, I mean different treatment for being a different race or sex, do you know of any...
Line 216	Pablo Barbosa: In my family, no. I don't know, at the workplace or wherever they work, or where they do their shopping, right? I don't know about their business, whether they've treated them badly or because they're gringos.
Line 217	Martha Torrez: Are there any other events or occurrences in your life that you remember that left a big impression on you?
Line 218	Martha Torrez: Not that I remember. No. Uh, I mean like the Mexican Revolution. Yeah. Do you know anything?
Line 219	Pablo Barbosa: No, no, I don't know. No, no, I don't know anything about that.
Line 220	Martha Torrez: Or the First and Second World Wars. The Depression of the 1930s and the 1970s.
Line 221	Pablo Barbosa: I remember a little about World War II, which I don't; I didn't get to participate in because I wasn't old enough yet. But I do remember that someone had to buy certain food supplies for the family, right? I don't remember exactly. How much? Why so much, right? But yes, I do remember that.
Line 222	Pablo Barbosa: During the Second World War. And by the time the war was over, I was old enough to qualify for prep school and volunteered. But no, no, I didn't pass the physical, but I did volunteer. It's true that I wanted to be part of that system, the government's system, that is, the Military Army. But because of a physical problem, no, no, no, I didn't pass.
Line 223	Pablo Barbosa: But in grades of... written questions and all that. Yeah, yeah. I went through more than I should have. Yeah.
Line 224	Martha Torrez: How did you feel after learning you failed the physical? I mean, it seems like it was very important to you that you wanted to join the military.
Line 225	Pablo Barbosa: So you wanted to be in the army, right? The war had already ended. But, like many other people's cases, the war hadn't ended, and the prep was still there until it ended. And when it was there, the young man had to go as soon as he turned 18. But I didn't expect that.
Line 226	Pablo Barbosa: I volunteered. No, I didn't pass the exam. But yes, I did want to do it, right? Yes, I wanted to be a member of the military service, but no, it wasn't possible.
Line 227	Martha Torrez: He felt sad.
Line 228	Pablo Barbosa: If not, it can't be otherwise. Well, I know I'm no longer obligated; they don't call me for that anymore. And of the children, only one managed to go to the Army, and by the time the second child was old enough, there were no more of them; it was over.
Line 229	Pablo Barbosa: But just register, right? Each son just completes his or her experience and has to go and register at the post office. But only one son went to the Army because the prep program was still available. The other son didn't qualify because they eliminated it.
Line 230	Martha Torrez: Did you know? Did you have friends or acquaintances who participated in the World War?
Line 231	Pablo's Wife: No no.
Line 232	Martha Torrez: I remember something from the civil rights movement of the 1960s.
Line 233	Pablo Barbosa: What I gave him was like that, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the press or what was seen on television. But I never had experience with the same thing. In the struggle of Black people, right? To obtain more rights that they didn't have, what they suffered. And possibly the second time I read or see what many Black people suffer in other big cities because there are no jobs for them.
Line 234	Pablo Barbosa: That's why there's a lot of that, drugs, a lot of talking, a lot of crime among themselves, because there's probably even more discrimination against them than against other races.
Line 235	Martha Torrez: Or do you think there is more discrimination among blacks?
Line 236	Pablo Barbosa: Because I read it, but never the experience.
Line 237	Martha Torrez: What would you say? What's most important to you? Something that's very important to you.
Line 238	Pablo Barbosa: Well, more important.
Line 239	Pablo Barbosa: I can't imagine it could be very important. I'll only live long enough to see all my grandchildren grow into men and women, like a grandfather, like a good father, like my wife.
Line 240	Pablo Barbosa: I have no other ambition because... Well, that's what I think is very important to me.
Line 241	Martha Torrez: Is there anything else you'd like to discuss? I've forgotten to ask you about anything you think you'd want to include in this interview.
Line 242	Pablo Barbosa: No, I don't think so.
Line 243	Pablo Barbosa: I haven't had as many problems or many problems at work, neither with my family nor with my employers, like others who may have had those problems in their lives as migrants or when they were migrants because there are many families who have already settled here, but at one time they came and went to their state.
Line 244	Pablo Barbosa: This is original, eh? Also, like families from Mexico, absolutely every family from Mexico, who also come and go, or came and went, and finally settled here. Many will have more, more interesting problems than I do. Ah, as I see it, this is very simple, right, about our lives, because no, we haven't had family problems or problems at work, or discrimination.
Line 245	Pablo Barbosa: Neither. And I also know about three friends today who have been here since '53, or lost their lives, they've known each other since '53. They must have more stories than I do. I think that's the most he can say, right? Because...
Line 246	Pablo Barbosa: It's the most that. Well yes.
Line 247	Martha Torrez: Doña María, do you have anything you'd like to say or something I forgot to ask that you'd like to share?
Line 248	Martha Torrez: So this question isn't included in the interview, but I'd like to know your opinion on the purpose of what this is trying to accomplish by capturing and maintaining the culture and experiences that the Mexican people have gone through here in the state of Idaho. What is your opinion or what do you think about this effort? It would be important to ask.
Line 249	Martha Torrez: Do you think?
Line 250	Pablo Barbosa: Well, I think it's good, because otherwise it's how it goes, how will the American gringo know about the customs or the problems between Mexican Americans and Mexicans, right? Or the migrant? Because if, for example, an article comes out like, "What do you want to do?" Maybe they'll read it and understand a little more, more about that race of people, right?
Line 251	Pablo Barbosa: Eh? And I also think that of the interviews you're going to do, or have already done, some are more interesting than others. But well, it has to do with everything. But in my case, I don't think it's that hard because, as I said, no, we haven't had or seen discrimination because, first of all, we haven't been among many like-minded people here who we've seen treated badly or didn't want.
Line 252	Pablo Barbosa: I'm not saying that this service is a service, but it's a service because it's Mexican. No, no, I haven't seen it, and it hasn't happened in my case.
Line 253	Martha Torrez: Well, you're very lucky, and it's important to know that, too. At this point, I'd like to thank you and your wife for giving me the time to interview you.

De La Garza, Celia Herrera (Sally)

Line 0
Line 1	Rosa Rodriguez: This is Rosa Rodriguez and I will be interviewing Sally de la Garza in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Sally, can you tell me where you were born?
Line 2	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I was born in Hardin, Montana.
Line 3	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. How did your, family come into Idaho?
Line 4	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: How did my family come into Idaho? My dad came first.
Line 5	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And he worked for the sugar factory as an interpreter. Then they brought 500 families from Mexico to help with the harvest. And he was involved in that. And one of those families happened to be my mother. That's how they.
Line 6	Rosa Rodriguez: They met and that's how they met. And so, when was that family? Do you remember when he first came into Idaho?
Line 7	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He came, in about 19 three.
Line 8	Rosa Rodriguez: Then he come into Idaho.
Line 9	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He came into Idaho. He, but before he worked for the sugar factory, he worked for the railroad.
Line 10	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 11	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: In fact, there's a little town up here somewhere that he used to call strawberry, where he worked on the railroad.
Line 12	Rosa Rodriguez: And, that was like around 1903.
Line 13	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza:
Line 14	Rosa Rodriguez: And, when what do you remember most about Idaho as far as the most recent times? When was it that you remember?
Line 15	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I remember, I remember, living on a farm.
Line 16	Rosa Rodriguez: How old were you then?
Line 17	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, I must've had three, four years old. And we. It was, a mr. Webb that my dad worked for. And after he got through working with the sugar factory, and we used to farmed one.
Line 18	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And we were there forever. Okay. We, We lived there for at least 15 years.
Line 19	Rosa Rodriguez: So you were about three yourself when you came in from Montana?
Line 20	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, I was nine months old.
Line 21	Rosa Rodriguez: Nine months old?
Line 22	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I was nine months old when we moved here.
Line 23	Rosa Rodriguez: And can I ask you what year you were born?
Line 24	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I was born 1931.
Line 25	Rosa Rodriguez: And your. When your father first came into Idaho. He came in alone, and then he met.
Line 26	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And then he met my mother. And they had two children here in Lincoln.
Line 27	Rosa Rodriguez: They were born here in Idaho.
Line 28	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: One of them was born in 1920, and the other one was born in 1922.
Line 29	Rosa Rodriguez: Lincoln being part of Idaho Falls. And that used to be called Lincoln and that now is part of Idaho Falls.
Line 30	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: At that time, it was a separate community all together.
Line 31	Rosa Rodriguez: So when your, father worked in the sugar factory, he was an interpreter. Yes. And when you worked with Mr. Webb, he helped him.
Line 32	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He, He was like the ranch hand. Mr. Webb.
Line 33	Rosa Rodriguez: How did he get into the country? Did he go through immigration process or.
Line 34	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. He had his papers. He had his passport with him. And, when he came in, he came straight to Idaho, as far as I can tell you. Okay. And then the two children were born. Well he married my mother when she was 18 and he was 36. So there was a 20 year difference there.
Line 35	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And then they had the two children and then they traveled to different states. In fact I have 3 or 4 brothers that are.
Line 36	Rosa Rodriguez: White.
Line 37	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: From.
Line 38	Rosa Rodriguez: Different states.
Line 39	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Different states.
Line 40	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your father speak Spanish only or.
Line 41	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He spoke, Spanish at home? But he could speak English. Where he picked it up.
Line 42	Rosa Rodriguez: You don't know?
Line 43	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't know. Okay. But it was all they spoke at home was Spanish.
Line 44	Rosa Rodriguez: And when he worked for Mr. Webb, did he work, like, during the harvest or during the summer?
Line 45	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: During the harvest? Oh. He would work, get the crops in. Okay. And then we'd wintered there.
Line 46	Rosa Rodriguez: Did Mr. Webb let him let you stay there without paying anything or.
Line 47	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We never paid that. I know they never paid any rent. We had a real nice home. I remember it was kind of a big know, very comfortable home. Big yard. We always had plenty to do because my dad raised a big garden, and we always had chickens and beef and pigs. That the farmer. Okay, would turn back for having a kelpie or whatever.
Line 48	Rosa Rodriguez: So and so on his off time, on his off season, he would be an interpreter for the sugar factory.
Line 49	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: You know, he was an interpreter first. Okay. When he first came into the country, he came straight as an interpreter.
Line 50	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay.
Line 51	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: After, he quit being in the interpreter. Okay. And he had traveled like this all through the states here. Then he came back and we, he settled here in Idaho Falls on this live on.
Line 52	Rosa Rodriguez: And where was it that he, started working for the railroad?
Line 53	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: That was when he was, let's see, after the fourth child, he worked for the railroad, and then he got hurt.
Line 54	Rosa Rodriguez: What year would that be, Sally?
Line 55	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I would say that would was around 1925.
Line 56	Rosa Rodriguez: Then you worked for the railroad, Do you? Did he ever tell you what kind of work he did for the railroad?
Line 57	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Manual, as far as I know. Because when he broke his feet, they had dropped a rail on his feet. So I figure it was like a labor. Okay.
Line 58	Rosa Rodriguez: Laborers and. And what happened when he. After he broke his feet? Did they help him with things?
Line 59	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He never said. I really don't know. What.
Line 60	Rosa Rodriguez: Happened? And how long did he work for the railroad?
Line 61	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I would say it most two years.
Line 62	Rosa Rodriguez: And then he.
Line 63	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He just went to the farming community. He loved farming. He loved working out in the fields. That was my joy.
Line 64	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about your mom. When she. You say that that she had two children at in the Lincoln area. Did she have a midwife, or did she go to a doctor?
Line 65	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: They had doctors. They had a midwife. But there was a man by the name of Mr. Porter. Okay. He was, Nangle. And his wife was the midwife.
Line 66	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. And so she didn't work.
Line 67	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: So she delivered.
Line 68	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, were they born at home then?
Line 69	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: They were born at home,
Line 70	Rosa Rodriguez: And, tell me a little bit about how you were, raised, assuming you were one of the oldest, children.
Line 71	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I was one I was the youngest out of seven.
Line 72	Rosa Rodriguez: You were the youngest out of seven.
Line 73	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza:
Line 74	Rosa Rodriguez: So then you didn't have, very many responsibilities as far as helping with the with the little ones. Because you were the people. That was nice for you. Selling. Tell me about growing up, in Idaho, in Idaho Falls. What do you remember most about? About the schools.
Line 75	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: The schools?
Line 76	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We had to war. The districts. Okay. Like they are now. When I started going to school, I went to, Emerson. We were, what we call first street now and hit road. We lived right on the corner of Hit Road. And first that's where our farm was.
Line 77	Rosa Rodriguez: Were Mr. Webb working boy.
Line 78	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And that was way out.
Line 79	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay.
Line 80	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And in order to take us to the bus to catch the bus, my dad would have to hitch a sleigh and horses to take it. So we knew it was way out there, oblivious like, like the winters are now there's some mild. I mean, there was so much snow that the electrical wires would actually get buried in the snow.
Line 81	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It was, but it was fun because we never rode the sled, but we were always cookie bobbin' back. I would go on up and down.
Line 82	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 83	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But Amerson was the first school I attended.
Line 84	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you did with children go to Emerson also?
Line 85	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, because they lived in town. The farm was ours. The, the owner of it lived in town.
Line 86	Rosa Rodriguez: So you took care of the farm? Yes, I foster went left in town. Well, tell me about, your friends. Did you do was there very many Mexican people, Hispanic people in Idaho Falls?
Line 87	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No. In fact,
Line 88	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: When I was before I started school. Okay. I remember the colonia in Lincoln, and there was a lot of families there, but I don't remember them going to school.
Line 89	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. A lot of Mexican families, a.
Line 90	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Lot of Mexican families. I would say it was at least 30 homes there in Lincoln. And we used to go over there like on Sundays at people that my parents knew. And that's when I play with them. But I never saw him at school. I mean.
Line 91	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, Lincoln land at Lincoln area is very far from the Emerson area.
Line 92	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Okay. But see, I that was way after I started school. The colonial was gone, okay. But people were still. They would come and go, okay. They never stayed put. I mean they were always going and coming and but I the only thing that I can think of, the school district was maybe I went to a different school, I don't know, I know that a lot of those people ended up in California because, my parents would visit them later in the later years, we'd go to California and we'd see all these people that had been in Lincoln.
Line 93	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think the only, families that really stayed there was the Patterson Pass. And, I don't going to school. I don't remember any Mexican children.
Line 94	Rosa Rodriguez: So how were you treated, Sally?
Line 95	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I was treated fine. I was treated like, the rest of them. Maybe I didn't know any better. Okay. But, I had a lot of friends, neighbors, Farms. You know, we'd visit each other and. But I don't remember ever being mistreated in school because I was a Mexican or Hispanic, whatever you want to call me. But no, I.
Line 96	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I can't remember ever being discriminated against. Okay. When I was in school.
Line 97	Rosa Rodriguez: When you were a little girl growing up and going to school, what kind of things did you used to do with your friends? But.
Line 98	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Like I say, you know, you live in farms, and the farms are about maybe a half a mile, two miles between each other. We used to, get on the horses and ride horses. We play in the ditch and, you know, swimming. We play in the canals.
Line 99	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Just like children to now and farm community. I don't think it was any different, you know, than than it is now. When you move up in the farm, it's completely different. There's so much to get into on a farm.
Line 100	Rosa Rodriguez: But do you have a teacher that stands out in your mind?
Line 101	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I have three teachers that really stand out in my mind, and one was a spelling teacher each. Her name was Mrs. Flores.
Line 102	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And the best you could get as far as that teacher was concerned, I was the next one. I, I was, I worked towards that. She was she she was a hard teacher, but she was a good teacher. And she stands out in my mind. Her and Mrs. Davis was our math teacher, but she learned I mean, you didn't talk because they came around with a ruler and swatted you in the hands or in the back of the head or whatever.
Line 103	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And I was about to get. But you did you learned. You learned in those. And then, Mrs. Brown and I singing teacher.
Line 104	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And those three teachers really stand out. A principal that I had at Hawthorne School was Mr. Crouch, and I have very fond memories, and it was real nice.
Line 105	Rosa Rodriguez: After you, went to Emerson, how many years did you go to Emerson?
Line 106	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I went to Emerson until we moved into town. And I must have been about 14 years old when we moved into town.
Line 107	Rosa Rodriguez: So what grade would that be? Grade.
Line 108	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think I went to the sixth grade, I think, at the time, because I had been sickly for the first two years. Six and seven.
Line 109	Rosa Rodriguez: And I had been sick. What was wrong with you?
Line 110	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I used to have, like, blackouts. Something like... I would say now, something like epilepsy. Okay. And so they had to keep a very close eye on me the first couple of years.
Line 111	Rosa Rodriguez: And. And how did your parents take you to the to see a doctor.
Line 112	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. And they gave me medication and, I took it for about ten years. And then they kind of went away. They faded away. So I was always behind as far as school was. And then last, school that I can remember, a, when we moved in town was Hawthorne School. And I attended there, and then I went on junior high, and then we the reason we moved in town was, was because two of the boys went into the service into World War two, and my dad wanted a secure place where he knew that if anything happened to the boys, he could be reached real easy.
Line 113	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: So this is how come.
Line 114	Rosa Rodriguez: Nobody can get into town? So did you graduate from one of the schools here?
Line 115	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No. When I was 16 years old, I was in a car accident. In a truck accident? We were in California, and I was in a cast party cast for nine months. At that time, we we went to California for this for the winter that year. And this when I was in this accident. And.
Line 116	Rosa Rodriguez: Yeah. Why? Excuse me, family. But why did you go to California for the winter that year?
Line 117	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: One of my brothers had been wounded in the service, World War two. And, there was two more getting discharged. And my dad wanted to be as close to Ford as possible, I see. And, we went to California. Like I said, I was in that accident, and I was, a freshman. And there and after that, I dropped out of school because I was in this body cast.
Line 118	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Okay, I fractured my back, and I didn't want to go to school. Let this body cast. So, I just went to work after that. I didn't go back to school.
Line 119	Rosa Rodriguez: So then you moved after that year, you moved back to the winter. You move back to Idaho, to Idaho Falls.
Line 120	Rosa Rodriguez: Would that. That would be during the depression, wouldn't it?
Line 121	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: That was during World War two. During the depression, we lived on the farm still,
Line 122	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you remember very much about that family?
Line 123	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, because like I said, I always saw plenty of food. My dad would always, there was a market here at our falls. It used to be the dry there. More beautiful store was a big store. Well, look big to me.
Line 124	Rosa Rodriguez: But where was that at?
Line 125	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It was located right on Yellowstone Avenue. And, my dad would come in the fall, buy everything he needed for the winter. And I'm talking, we take, either a truckload or a trailer. He buys, like, cheese, you know, 50 pound beans, 100 pounds flour, 100 pounds. Sure. Well, surplus. He'd always bought enough to carry him through the winter months.
Line 126	Rosa Rodriguez: To where would he store all that?
Line 127	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We had a extra room in that big house that I was telling you about. That, he always kept real cold. We weren't allowed in there to play in there. That was our kind of like a pantry.
Line 128	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And everything was stored in that room. It was just like a little store. He buy eggs by the cartons. By the crates. Okay. He by 50 pounds of lard. Everything was in big quantities. We always have plenty in me when I do chicken or pork or or beef. He would slaughter hang them out. So we always had fresh meat.
Line 129	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't remember the depression. I don't remember ever going to that place. And I don't know whether it was because we lived on a farm. I really don't know. But I don't remember the depression being going without doing.
Line 130	Rosa Rodriguez: Without what kind of coal would you. Where did your mom make your clothes?
Line 131	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And no, mine were store bought because I remember coming shopping coming up, not across. We hear these during a soon town every Saturday. The girls would go to the dances, the oldest girls and the boys and my dad, my and my mother would go shopping. We'd go to the show, and then we'd go to Ada Street, because that was when Ada's mother ran to respond.
Line 132	Rosa Rodriguez: And, Ada's Cafe. And that's the Chinese place.
Line 133	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: That's the Chinese place. And so I remember it's so different. In fact, I've seen pictures, here recently of when I was a little girl by remembering that that restaurant. But it was that was our main part of the show. Would go shopping.
Line 134	Rosa Rodriguez: Would your dad go with your older sisters to the dance?
Line 135	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No. My oldest brother took she chaperon. He chaperon. And they were not allowed to go. If you didn't go.
Line 136	Rosa Rodriguez: Are you talking about Mexican dance?
Line 137	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, I'm talking about the wandering Mia here in Idaho Falls. It was a big dance hall.
Line 138	Rosa Rodriguez: What was their name again?
Line 139	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Wonder. Mia.
Line 140	Rosa Rodriguez: I see.
Line 141	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And, that I'd love to. After I got old enough, I got to go to a couple of dance, and it was a beautiful dance, only to have name bands come in there. But that was, every Saturday night thing. You know, as long as my oldest brother was with them, he would take them, like me, just from town again.
Line 142	Rosa Rodriguez: And buy them. Were there other, Mexican families in town or,
Line 143	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: The Mexican people that I remember, okay, that were in Lincoln when I was a little girl, I would say that 99% of them moved to California, but Pocatello had a lot of Mexican people. And, we would go visit. Okay. These, different families. And it was like, their birthdays or baptisms or weddings, and I remember those dances.
Line 144	Rosa Rodriguez: What years were those? Sally?
Line 145	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I couldn't have been. Oh. 13, 14 years old. Because I know I wasn't old enough to go to the dances myself. Okay.
Line 146	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But I know my sisters are, also, there was dances and drinks. This man that lived in this. Labor camp, they used to go pick peas for six weeks. You pick peas and rice, and it was like a picnic. Really. It's what it was like for us. Same with me. And we'd go down there for six weeks, and this family would hold dances in their front yard, you know, just with local people.
Line 147	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Whoever wanted to play could play. But those are the only Mexican dances that I can recall. As a young woman. I remember going to the name bands, but not Mexican dances. And the only time we went to Mexican dances was if we wintered in California, then those Mexican dances. But then my dad worked with us.
Line 148	Rosa Rodriguez: So Sally. What? Where were your. Where did your, brothers and sisters go to school? Did they graduate from high?
Line 149	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I had a brother that graduated from high school here. And that was about it.
Line 150	Rosa Rodriguez: So when when you moved to, I remember you telling me that you moved to California one winter. So therefore, the children had to leave the school and enter another school, right in California. Right. What was that like for them?
Line 151	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, I don't think it was any different than it was for me. We knew we had to go to school, so we went to school. My dad was, He never stopped us from, education. It was our choice if we didn't want to go to school anymore. You're not going to go to school. You're going to go to work.
Line 152	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But we had no problem as far as, going to school. Okay? Whether it was here in California.
Line 153	Rosa Rodriguez: So did you eventually get a GED? So you were unable to?
Line 154	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. In fact, I have a brother. At that time. Went on to, took a couple of years of college. I took my GED, maybe ten, 15 years, and, And I've been very fortunate. This company that I worked for will give us all the schooling that we want. Okay.
Line 155	Rosa Rodriguez: Where do you work?
Line 156	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: So I work for Eugene GM, and, of course, plus the courses the company themselves require. So, and the schooling is there for me. I want it, but like I say, I've been very fortunate.
Line 157	Rosa Rodriguez: I want to talk a little bit about your mother. What part of Mexico were they from?
Line 158	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: My dad was from Newman, Michoacan. My mother was from Duran Duran.
Line 159	Rosa Rodriguez: Did she ever talk about wanting to go back to Mexico? Did she miss the warm climate?
Line 160	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: When she married my dad. I guess the five. Because when they immigrated, all those families over here, they were here for it was a contract for five years.
Line 161	Rosa Rodriguez: With the sugar.
Line 162	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Family, with the sugar factory. Meanwhile, my mother had married my dad. When the five years came up, her family had to move, went back to Mexico. She stayed. And I guess it was real hard for, because they were very close family. But, she never got to see her mother again. She, passed away a young woman, my grandmother did, but, I got to meet my great.
Line 163	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And.
Line 164	Rosa Rodriguez: And how did you meet?
Line 165	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We went to visit, that took us over there for six months. And we spent all the time.
Line 166	Rosa Rodriguez: And by then your grandmother had passed away.
Line 167	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But I had my grandma, my great grandmother. And, So she's the only grandmother that I knew as a as a young, as a little girl. Okay. But we went back, but her mother passed away, right? I knew my grandfather and my great grandmother and my, she had an uncle that she treated like a brother, and he treated her.
Line 168	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: So we always used to call him awful. But I met a lot of her family, her sisters, and, of course, later on in the years, we would take her down to visit family. But that's about the only part of Mexico that I can remember her.
Line 169	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your mom. Well, I'm assuming that she didn't have time to visit other women in the area. Only Hispanic women.
Line 170	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: The only time they visit. It was probably on a weekend. Okay. And, like I say, I remember going to Lincoln, but once those people moved out of there, okay. And they they visited in Porcello.
Line 171	Rosa Rodriguez: But those people in Lincoln would always come back when it got warmer.
Line 172	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, no, when they left, they.
Line 173	Rosa Rodriguez: Left when they left and came back.
Line 174	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And
Line 175	Rosa Rodriguez: So at one time.
Line 176	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: That was a flourishing community at one.
Line 177	Rosa Rodriguez: At one time in the Lincoln area, which is now Idaho Falls.
Line 178	Rosa Rodriguez: How many Mexican families do you think we had?
Line 179	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I would say there was at least 20 to 30 families and just that little community there.
Line 180	Rosa Rodriguez: In, in what year would you.
Line 181	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I must've been about six or so. I mean, that's a long time ago, you know, that I would have I would say maybe that was during the depression. You know, during.
Line 182	Rosa Rodriguez: That they all work. They must have come here on contract to work.
Line 183	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't know if they worked for different farmers or from what I'm gathering. Okay. From what I gather was the sugar factory owned a lot of ground and they would work for the sugar factory. And then when they got through working for the sugar factory. And when I'm saying the sugar factory raised its own beans, they would contracted out to these people that came to live there.
Line 184	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Okay. And that's how they worked.
Line 185	Rosa Rodriguez: And what about the the families that lived in there? You said there was like said, okay.
Line 186	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: There was in between the harvesters and in between the thinning and the hoeing of the beans. Okay. There was six weeks that there was nothing to do. Okay. So the people would go to Driggs for six weeks to pick peas. Fact I was accused of being spoiled because I never had to do that. The rest of the family.
Line 187	Rosa Rodriguez: You were the baby.
Line 188	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: That was the baby. But they would go over there for six weeks, and these families came from all over, Idaho Falls, Pocatello, the Blackfoot. Yeah, it was fun place. Everybody built their little houses and it was just like camping for six weeks. Yeah.
Line 189	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you remember, do you remember a strike over there? The Mexican people on our strike?
Line 190	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think so, okay. And, Mr. White on that was the name of the camp was Whites Camp. So, you know, I remember something very little about it, but I do remember.
Line 191	Rosa Rodriguez: Where they, where they striking because of that working conditions or.
Line 192	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, I think they were.
Line 193	Rosa Rodriguez: Working.
Line 194	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Because of the salary, from what I gather. Because I guess they used to pay in the pound or carrying them for these baskets, big baskets. And I think they were rebelling against, the wages that they wanted to pay.
Line 195	Rosa Rodriguez: Did they have someone that spoke for them?
Line 196	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't know. I really don't.
Line 197	Rosa Rodriguez: Was your father, type of person that would advise the other families?
Line 198	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think so my dad was a leader. He was so, you know, he was in there, you know, very sociable man, very leadership type person.
Line 199	Rosa Rodriguez: So when they you would go visit in the Lincoln area, they would listen to.
Line 200	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes.
Line 201	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh.
Line 202	Rosa Rodriguez: This is Rosa Rodriguez, and this is part two of, Sally de la Garcia's interview.
Line 203	Rosa Rodriguez: Sally, when you were growing up, especially during, your younger years, what do you remember, the kinds of foods that your mom would make for you?
Line 204	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Mexican food, cocktails and beans. She, Potatoes and homemade pie.
Line 205	Rosa Rodriguez: Did she ever use that? Anything from outside? I know you had a garden, but did she ever use. You know, leaves or anything like that? I mean, the reason why I ask is because I know that some families used to eat candy there.
Line 206	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes, she she used to cook and eat this. She could be tops.
Line 207	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But this, she had a, that, can leave this by her. And my dad used to go out and eat this. I remember that.
Line 208	Rosa Rodriguez: And how did she used to make them?
Line 209	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: She used to fry them with onion and chili.
Line 210	Rosa Rodriguez: Became so she should think so. Do you remember once again talking about your mom, if she would ever tell you an acquaintance, sir?
Line 211	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. Stories about Mexico. In fact, every night was a story night. My dad would.
Line 212	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Different stories. Okay, sometimes they were so, spooky. Okay. That we were afraid to go to bed at night alone, so we'd all sneak in their bedroom, you know? But, yes, every night and every night after supper and would tell scrapbooks and stories.
Line 213	Rosa Rodriguez: And did they all relate to Mexico, or would he just make some.
Line 214	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Up 90%, 99% related to Mexico? And no, I don't think he made them up. They were stories that he had read because he used to read a lot.
Line 215	Rosa Rodriguez: And did he read them when he lived here?
Line 216	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. He used to like, the cowboy stories at the time, they were paper bags, but they were bigger than.
Line 217	Rosa Rodriguez: They were all in English.
Line 218	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Western. They were all in English.
Line 219	Rosa Rodriguez: And what about your mom?
Line 220	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: She wasn't too much into the English. Okay. She read a lot of, they used to send for the paper. Her family would send her La Prensa from Mexico, and that's what she would do. She would read the Mexican magazines, whatever she could get her hands on.
Line 221	Rosa Rodriguez: Did she ever sing you any lullabies in Spanish?
Line 222	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Not that I remember. No. And she sang a lot. Her and my dad used to team up and sing along.
Line 223	Rosa Rodriguez: Did he play the guitar?
Line 224	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: You know, but they would sit out after dinner outside, near the home or whatever, and they'd sing. Both of them, we remember them singing.
Line 225	Rosa Rodriguez: And you would sit and listen.
Line 226	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: To. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, of course, there was no television at that time either. So, no, we had a very they kept us very busy. And, very united. And they spent a lot of their time with us.
Line 227	Rosa Rodriguez: And when did your, mother passed away?
Line 228	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: She passed away 30 years ago. And, she was on a trip to Mexico, and she passed away in Mexico. She had gone to see her dad and her sister, and she passed away in Mexico on a trip.
Line 229	Rosa Rodriguez: But other than, your your parents, your sisters, her giving birth to your brothers and sisters at home. Did she have any your your dad or your mom have any illnesses that you can remember?
Line 230	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: My mother was, diabetic. My dad just died of age. But my mother was a diabetic. Lost control, but still know she was.
Line 231	Rosa Rodriguez: When your dad would tell you. Cuantos did he ever talk about? The Mexican Revolution?
Line 232	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, he never did. The Mexican Revolution. My mother's grandfather. Was, officer. And how they had, What's his name? Yeah. Famous Mexican.
Line 233	Rosa Rodriguez: Pancho Villa.
Line 234	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Right? They they hid from him because he was an officer for the other side times. And she used to tell me that, in order to keep him, you know, and, that they would travel at night to hide.
Line 235	Rosa Rodriguez: So that he would not.
Line 236	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Anything so that he would not be seen.
Line 237	Rosa Rodriguez: So then,
Line 238	Rosa Rodriguez: Your grandmother was how old? When they would travel?
Line 239	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: My mother says she was about ten years old from the Mexican Revolution. So I really can't tell you how.
Line 240	Rosa Rodriguez: My grandmother was. Well, Sally, what do you think of, about, of our Mexican-American students, our Idaho Mexican-American students? How do you think they do in school?
Line 241	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I've had three children myself. Okay. Two of them graduated. One has taken his community. One went on to college for two years. We, we tried to push education on my children. My girl didn't want college. Now she regrets,
Line 242	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think education is there if you want it. If you don't want it. You're not going to have it.
Line 243	Rosa Rodriguez: What's different between the the Mexican students now and when you were a student yourself?
Line 244	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: When I was a student and when my brothers were students, I think we were the only Mexican students in school. Okay, so there was. You couldn't compare. We were treated the same as the rest of them. So we felt. Until recently, I. I in, like, reading in the newspapers, you know, about Skyline High School. And it's kind of disturbing because we never had that before.
Line 245	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We never had, the commotion that you see now.
Line 246	Rosa Rodriguez: That that skyline incident being the time when that kid said that for Hispanic students at skyline got, bombarded by 300 of Anglos.
Line 247	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And, but we never had that kind of problem. My brothers, my sisters or myself, And it's sad to see it even now.
Line 248	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't know whose fault it was. And, I read with interest your articles on it. All the articles councilmen, the mayors. I think that, it was blown out of proportion. Right, from front to the back and all that. It both ways. Okay. I think it could have been settled a little bit. A little bit more for mass than it was.
Line 249	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you think that these students in the present time, these Hispanic students, care about going to school? What are your feelings about the high Hispanic rate of dropout?
Line 250	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It's sad.
Line 251	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It's. I wish we could do more for, I wish we could talk, talk, talk to them at their level. Something that they can understand. Not putting them down, not giving them false hopes. Okay. About if you get an education, you're going to get the best job in the world. That life isn't that way, but be very realistic with them.
Line 252	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think we need more programs not to stuff down their throat, but to. Just keep them on board on.
Line 253	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: What goes on, you know, from education and not get anything. Like I say, I have been lucky. I have real good bosses. I've had, they've always steered me to go up. They've always taught. You've always encouraged me, no matter what job I've had a I've been. Like I say, I consider myself very lucky. I've had real good bosses for me.
Line 254	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, tell me about your first job.
Line 255	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: So my first job. My first job was at Skaggs Drugstore.
Line 256	Rosa Rodriguez: How old were you?
Line 257	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, 16. And there was a fountain there. And I worked in the farm, and I loved it. It was in downtown, out of falls. That was my first job.
Line 258	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your. Excuse me, Sally? Did your other brothers and sisters work also?
Line 259	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. My oldest sister was assistant manager for Diana Hughes. I have, a brother that worked for the telephone company for 27 years.
Line 260	Rosa Rodriguez: Those were their first jobs.
Line 261	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: You know as well. After. After they got out of the service. Okay, the first jobs that always had a farm. So they always farmed with him until he retired. Then the boys went on their own. I have a brother that, was a hairdresser. Later on in the years he churned, as a musician. Plus he was in inter heat, and and he was an interpreter for the courthouse.
Line 262	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: United falls.
Line 263	Rosa Rodriguez: And one other kinds of jobs that you have aside from the one at Skaggs.
Line 264	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I worked at Christmas, I tended children. I was like a nanny for, Mr. De Sweeney's I, I live I didn't live with them, but I was there. I took care of the children when they went on trips.
Line 265	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Then I worked in warehouses. From there, I went out to the side. There. You? Yeah.
Line 266	Rosa Rodriguez: And how long have you worked there?
Line 267	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I've worked there 12 years.
Line 268	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, do you feel that your economic position is better or the same as or worse than your parents?
Line 269	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think we have more stress now.
Line 270	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. More stress.
Line 271	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: More stress.
Line 272	Rosa Rodriguez: In other words, you don't go sit on the porch and sing with.
Line 273	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, no, oh, no, you don't have time. You know, you come home from work, you've got things to do, so you do them. But, I don't think it's as carefully as it used to be. And maybe it's because we didn't know their problems, but, I think it's more carefree.
Line 274	Rosa Rodriguez: But as far as, as far as economically they're concerned there are you worry your parents better off than you at that time and compared to this time.
Line 275	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But they have their home just like I've got my home. That was theirs. They paid for it. I think we just want a little better things. You know, they didn't have microwaves and all the conveniences that we have now. Okay.
Line 276	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, going back to your job, Sally, your first job at Skaggs, how did you find out about that job? And how was your interview? Do you remember.
Line 277	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: My sister work there, and, she told me there was going to be an opening in the farm, and she was going on to have a job and she was leaving for California.
Line 278	Rosa Rodriguez: And how did your sister get that job as gas?
Line 279	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: She interviewed for it, and she worked at Fong's drugstore. And when I took over the counter here, I interviewed with Mr. Skaggs, and I got the job.
Line 280	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, what did you like about the job or what didn't you like about the job?
Line 281	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I liked the job. I, I enjoyed the people. I enjoyed my boss.
Line 282	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I probably didn't work there very long because, I remember working for the soybeans after that.
Line 283	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, do you think that, the Mexican-American population in Idaho were treated fairly? As far as their jobs are concerned?
Line 284	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I can only speak for myself, and I think I'm being treated very fair. You have to be open minded about the situation. Yeah. I think if you make waves, you get waves. You know, you still have rights. Yes, but don't like them. You're kind of somebody else.
Line 285	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about. Tell me about. Don't force. I know I'm going to make you go back again. But what made your dad come to live in Idaho Falls? It was probably called Eagle Rock at the time.
Line 286	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Since I can remember, my dad loved Idaho Falls. There was no place. Any place he traveled all over, as, a single man. They traveled all over as a couple. And their mother.
Line 287	Rosa Rodriguez: By all over. Stanley, are you talking about different states or different states?
Line 288	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Different states. Okay, he liked Idaho Falls. We would call it California winter in California. But come April, he wanted to be another falls. I see the last time he went to California, they went to visit. He had a stroke and he called and says, come and get me, because if I'm going to die, I'm when I die in my beloved Idaho Falls.
Line 289	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And the boys went and got it. Of course he didn't die a time back.
Line 290	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, he got better when he walked back here.
Line 291	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He did. He did. He lived another ten years.
Line 292	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, what how do you feel about this community? Sally?
Line 293	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I love Idaho Falls. I always have things have changed a lot. But I've always lived out of falls. I married a man from Texas, and I told him I will marry you. I one condition died at home, not Texas.
Line 294	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about, about your, brothers. You say that they served in World War two?
Line 295	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. I had, three of them serve in World War two and one in the Korean War.
Line 296	Rosa Rodriguez: And tell me about how they felt about serving in the war. What was their experiences like?
Line 297	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: The one that went to war first was rolled. And as soon as he went to my brother, my oldest brother says if he's going, I'm going. So about six months later, he went in and as the draft came in, they all three of them got a facto. I had a brother in law. My mother that time had five, three of her sons and two of her son in laws were in the service.
Line 298	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And, one of my brothers was wounded and lost a leg. He was transported to Fort Morgan in here to Brigham City, the closest they could get him. He was there for three years, though.
Line 299	Rosa Rodriguez: Your one brother and, I have a location right. And. What happened when he had that? When he had his accident? One. Does he talk about that?
Line 300	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He was barely 19 when it happened. He had a big adjustment to me. That was very hard on my mother.
Line 301	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But he came. I was flying colors. He's the one that's gone to college and has been the interpreter here at the courthouse. And we're very proud of him. He's a lovely man.
Line 302	Rosa Rodriguez: Sounds like all your family is lovely.
Line 303	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Family they are. I have four brothers. Maybe I feel that way because they all spoiled me. But I do have real nice brothers.
Line 304	Rosa Rodriguez: And tell me about your other brothers. Your other two brothers served in World War two. Do they ever did? Did they ever talk about if there was other Hispanic soldiers?
Line 305	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. I got along fine with them. Made friends with them. I think one of them was their sergeant. Very fond memories of them when they talk about them.
Line 306	Rosa Rodriguez: How long were they? And, in and how long that they serve?
Line 307	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think they, other than own, because he was wounded and, of course, he wasn't discharged until after he left the hospital, but they served therefore, three I think it was three years at the time before they were discharged.
Line 308	Rosa Rodriguez: I can imagine your mother with three sons being.
Line 309	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: In the war. So she went there. She, I really aged her. She heard continually about them. We miss them terribly. Three year olds. They left when I was a little girl. And they come back when I was a young woman. And, It was hard. It was hard to be without them. We played hard together.
Line 310	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: In fact, we still do that. We were very close. Very close knit.
Line 311	Rosa Rodriguez: So it at one point, that's when you're at one point in that three period, three year period was the time that you that your father moved to California to be closer to Fort.
Line 312	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. And we just went there, like I said, for a few months. Just to make sure that he was going to be there when the boys were going to be coming home, because about that time, I think the war had ended, but it was still, you know, and, he wanted to be there in California.
Line 313	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But I say, because of the boys, and then when I was in that accident where I hurt my back, the boys came home and we all came home together.
Line 314	Rosa Rodriguez: So do you remember that? Yes. Voice that home? Yes. And your mom?
Line 315	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. I remember the first one that I saw after the accident was the brother that had been in Brigham City. He was on crutches, and he brought me up. He bought me a bracelet. I remember that gold bracelet he brought to get a hospital. That was the nicest thing I can remember. Waking up and seeing him. And, then we all drove home.
Line 316	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Dad says, let's just.
Line 317	Rosa Rodriguez: Let's just go home.
Line 318	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Let's just go home.
Line 319	Rosa Rodriguez: What about your your brother that served in the Korean War?
Line 320	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He's in California. He, They don't say anything bad about the service.
Line 321	Rosa Rodriguez: They were proud to.
Line 322	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Say they were proud to serve. And my dad was a proud man. So proud of.
Line 323	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And, When I'm married, I'm married to a marine who was in the Marine Corps. So that pretty much my dad.
Line 324	Rosa Rodriguez: Even proud. Prouder. When did you meet? When did you meet your husband?
Line 325	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: When I met him in 1952.
Line 326	Rosa Rodriguez: Here in Idaho Falls.
Line 327	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, I went to visit one of my brothers in Nevada. That was. So it was, ammunition depot there. And he was working for the government. And I met my husband there. He was stationed there.
Line 328	Rosa Rodriguez: One of your brothers that served in the war? Yes. And he just got a government job? Yes.
Line 329	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And I went to visit him. The first week I was there. I met my husband. Six weeks later. We were married. 36 years later, we're still married.
Line 330	Rosa Rodriguez: But for you. So, So you wanted to go back to Texas?
Line 331	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: She. He loved Texas.
Line 332	Rosa Rodriguez: But what part of Texas?
Line 333	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He's from San Antonio. And I told him I'm from Idaho. I can't live without my mom and dad. So he did. He got out of the service, and he says, if I can get a job in Idaho, we'll stay. But if I can move to San Antonio. He was here a month, and he got a job.
Line 334	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I think the government paid so much because he was a veteran and, company that he started work for pay the other half, something like that.
Line 335	Rosa Rodriguez: Here in Nevada was his station, the submarine.
Line 336	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Half foreign.
Line 337	Rosa Rodriguez: Where did he serve?
Line 338	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: And and no, he never got overseas. Yeah. Stay in state one. Yeah.
Line 339	Rosa Rodriguez: And and so. But he did. You eloped when you got married?
Line 340	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No. Since I was staying with my older brother, I told him, I says I'm going to get married. You better tell mom. Dad. You better. I. So, he didn't, my husband asked for my hand in marriage. You can be my brother. I, I respected my brother. Now, to have him come over, I said you I'm living in his home.
Line 341	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: You feel like he was my father. And that's exactly what happened. My dad didn't talk to me for a year until my first payment was for this little boy.
Line 342	Rosa Rodriguez: Was that hard for you, Sally? That your dad didn't talk to you?
Line 343	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It was very hard. But he would talk to my husband. But he wouldn't.
Line 344	Rosa Rodriguez: And what about your mom? Of course your mom went.
Line 345	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. I'd call every week, and she would never tell me that my dad would talk to me. She'd say, he's out of guard, or he's busy doing this.
Line 346	Rosa Rodriguez: And you lived in.
Line 347	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Nevada.
Line 348	Rosa Rodriguez: Or Nevada.
Line 349	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Until, he put in four years in the service. Then we came home and got a job, and my first baby passed away. And, Yeah.
Line 350	Rosa Rodriguez: And he found a job in Idaho. Yes.
Line 351	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He did, a month later. And then he, started working for the grocery stores, which was food chain at the time. And he worked in the groceries for 27 years. He worked for Jack gamble and that, food chain, you know, savings center.
Line 352	Rosa Rodriguez: And what did he do?
Line 353	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He was, either assistant manager or manager. A lot of the stores, then about eight years ago, he just got tired of all the night work, all the weekends. And he works for challenger pallet now.
Line 354	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, tell me, about, you tell you told me that you didn't ever go to the Mexican dances.
Line 355	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: In California I did.
Line 356	Rosa Rodriguez: But here in Idaho, you didn't?
Line 357	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, no, because there was there wasn't any when I was a young.
Line 358	Rosa Rodriguez: Girl at that time in Driggs, when they would get together.
Line 359	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: When they would get just like a house party. Okay. But now, as a young girl, I never did ceramics, Mexican.
Line 360	Rosa Rodriguez: So was your. So I'm assuming your father was the one that made all the decisions for the family?
Line 361	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes.
Line 362	Rosa Rodriguez: And when he wasn't around, it was your older brother?
Line 363	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: No, it was my mother.
Line 364	Rosa Rodriguez: It was your mother.
Line 365	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: It was my mother. My mother couldn't run that house.
Line 366	Rosa Rodriguez: So what would happen? Sally, if you want to go out, let's say to the dance who? Who? You would ask your mom and.
Line 367	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We would ask our mom, okay? And then she would ask our dad, or else we could go straight today. And, I was always one that I could kind of sit on the arm chairs and that. Is that. All right?
Line 368	Rosa Rodriguez: Until you got married and then you took it for a ride. So lost your father. The one that disciplined you then?
Line 369	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes.
Line 370	Rosa Rodriguez: And how would he discipline a family?
Line 371	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: He never got rude with us. All he had to do was look at us so we knew we'd better settle down. He never got. I don't ever remember being spanked or slapped or.
Line 372	Rosa Rodriguez: Was he harder on the boys? And he was on the.
Line 373	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. He, he didn't like the boys sitting around in the house doing nothing. So we always had him. He always had work for him to do. Chopping wood, bringing in coal, bringing water.
Line 374	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, tell me, Sally, what kind of games did you play when you were growing up?
Line 375	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: We played, house. We played Cowboys and Indians and play in the haystack and slide down. Make it mine because we make a mess out of the hay straw.
Line 376	Rosa Rodriguez: Yes. We kick the can.
Line 377	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Kick the can. And then and, I don't remember what the name of the toy is, but it was a we'll, And then the boys would make a piece of wire that come and they just, you know, you don't that move you all over.
Line 378	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, and it was. Did your dad ever make you any toys? Did he carve anything?
Line 379	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. He used to carve, a little, ma'am. Okay. And he put it on a two sticks with string and you could press and like this, and they would do somersaults. Oh, he made those for us.
Line 380	Rosa Rodriguez: Out of wood.
Line 381	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Out of wood. He made those wheels that I tell you, he'd get, some kind of wheel on a wire and, he make slingshots. He made guns with rubber bands.
Line 382	Rosa Rodriguez: And those were probably your best toys.
Line 383	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Yes. We didn't have Christmases the way my grandchildren have Christmases or even the way my children had Christmases. Our Christmases were nuts and oranges and apples. No big, huge trees. Maybe they'd stay up all night cooking Mexican bread. Those were candy once in a while.
Line 384	Rosa Rodriguez: And he carved you some toys.
Line 385	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: I don't remember them ever buying his toys.
Line 386	Rosa Rodriguez: I mean, carved.
Line 387	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: All our carved little cars. He'd carve, tops for the boys. He'd carve little dolls for us.
Line 388	Rosa Rodriguez: My dad used to carve the tops out of the thread. The.
Line 389	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: The spools. That how he, And then they put a nail on the opposite side. You know, they would do that. And it was real peaceful. Our evenings were offbeat, peaceful, very. Maybe it was because we lived so far from other neighbors that all we had was each other.
Line 390	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: But they were very loving cars.
Line 391	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you, did you go to church?
Line 392	Celia Herrera (Sally) De La Garza: Oh, yes. Yes. (tape runs out).

Garcia, Felicitas

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: It's October 19, 1991. This afternoon we're visiting with Mrs. Felicitas García, who lives on Patzi Street. It's 966 Patzi Street in Pocatello. My name is Martha Torres, and I'll be interviewing her today. This afternoon. Mrs. Felicitas. Okay, we've been chatting a little bit, haven't we? Before we start recording. The first thing I'd like to ask you this afternoon is: How did you and your family come to Idaho?
Line 2	Felicitas Garcia: Because I left Mexico in 1910. Without family (Inaudible).
Line 3	Martha Torrez: But who did he come with? When they first came, he came with his parents.
Line 4	Felicitas Garcia: With my husband.
Line 5	Martha Torrez: Or with her husband in 1910.
Line 6	Felicitas Garcia: He 1910? Yes.
Line 7	Martha Torrez: And why did you come to the state of Idaho?
Line 8	Felicitas Garcia: Well, he came to work for the railroad. He was a railroad worker all that time. Hmm.
Line 9	Martha Torrez: And what did he do with the railroad?
Line 10	Felicitas Garcia: Fixing the train's frets, all those things towards it.
Line 11	Martha Torrez: How did he get that job since he was hired from Mexico?
Line 12	Felicitas Garcia: No, he walked from there to work at whatever jobs they gave him. But he later got a job with the railroad.
Line 13	Martha Torrez: What memories of Doña Felicitas from the Time When. When they crossed here. East. What mode of transportation did they use?
Line 14	Felicitas Garcia: At that time, you had to get a passport to get here. I have my passport, but I don't remember which one, it's like a little box. I bring my passport and a card for my whole family here. All the services they provided were to wash me and come back, and all that stuff. I have my papers in that little box, and I bring one. A card came from Boise. They said they were going to collect all the people they didn't see who didn't have a passport to be here.
Line 15	Felicitas Garcia: And then a man had to go with something to tell the Church of San Antonio. So I asked him what he would do, because I was in a hurry. I said, "Well, what should I do?" You're not going to Mexico; your whole family is from here, and they've all worked here. My wife was a fan of trackers. He also worked for the railroad, and so he'd give me a piece of paper.
Line 16	Felicitas Garcia: And I have a card for Boise wine. And by no means under the table, because they were picking up people who weren't, so don't forget they were sending them to Mexico. And then this man came and saw all my papers. I have a little box of paper, and I have a card where they told me I couldn't go to Mexico under any circumstances because I'd been given services in the United States.
Line 17	Felicitas Garcia: The three of my children were there during the war. Well, this one I have here, and the two, the one who died, and the one in Santa Ana, California. My son, the other one came from here, and...
Line 18	Martha Torrez: And for that reason they were not sent to Mexico.
Line 19	Felicitas Garcia: Because their.
Line 20	Martha Torrez: Sons had served in the service.
Line 21	Felicitas Garcia: They had served here when, when... Unless fighting a war.
Line 22	Martha Torrez: Yes. Yes. Uh. Do you remember the year you came here to Idaho?
Line 23	Felicitas Garcia: Yes. Well, the 910.
Line 24	Martha Torrez: Let's see, tell me what you remember from when you first arrived in the state. What do you remember?
Line 25	Felicitas Garcia: For nothing. After work. Once I was in the beetroot
Line 26	Martha Torrez: They came to work.
Line 27	Felicitas Garcia: If I came to work at Despierta, all of that isn't for work, it's not for work.
Line 28	Martha Torrez: And where did Doña Felicitas live?
Line 29	Felicitas Garcia: In whom.
Line 30	Martha Torrez: Did they live? In one in the labor camp. Or was it a house?
Line 31	Felicitas Garcia: No, it was. We were in a factory there. There were houses for the workers, and they lived there.
Line 32	Martha Torrez: Let's see, tell me about that one, about what the houses were like. Those were good homes.
Line 33	Felicitas Garcia: At that time? Yes, they weren't small houses, so they almost pretended we were arriving at that place where you're talking about, and there was a big mill there, and there was a lot of scrap metal and all that. And those who weren't very stupid would go there and take out boards, and soon they'd build a poorly made house.
Line 34	Felicitas Garcia: But it was a house.
Line 35	Martha Torrez: And they passed by and.
Line 36	Felicitas Garcia: They did.
Line 37	Martha Torrez: This is how they made the houses.
Line 38	Felicitas Garcia: You guys rather.
Line 39	Martha Torrez: You had to do yours.
Line 40	Felicitas Garcia: We had to do, he didn't have to make our houses.
Line 41	Martha Torrez: And they were cold. Doña Felicitas, they were cold, the weather was cold.
Line 42	Felicitas Garcia: I mean, the cold weather. But there was so much of it. The mill was very close to a lot of firewood and coal, and the wind machines, because they would go and carry a lot, a lot of coal and firewood, and when they didn't, it was cold.
Line 43	Martha Torrez: And since they cooked, they had a stove and everything in their little houses.
Line 44	Felicitas Garcia: If they had artificial doubts, what would they do when they made money? They would make a table with magic and it would be directed at the woman there, and it would be quiet. Mhm.
Line 45	Martha Torrez: And how did they sleep?
Line 46	Felicitas Garcia: No, well, we slept there on the boards we had, we made our beds, or, well, I made my own bed, which we used to steal. And I made some hats like many of those sacks that come in bad bags.
Line 47	Martha Torrez: Flour and no.
Line 48	Felicitas Garcia: Bags, those hard ones
Line 49	Martha Torrez: In those of dad.
Line 50	Felicitas Garcia: If you gathered those sacks and glued one together, it would make four. Because what could you do with this bed? The four would make half a bed, I'd put it in, take it out, break it, and make a soft bed. I mean, they were working, so since they were doing all that and doing everything, suddenly there we go, just like houses that were already opened, that had already become old, that no longer had any, no one lived in them, well, those houses were there for now. I made curtains, I laid them in the sand, I made curtains and put up curtains and fixed them up so I could move here.
Line 51	Felicitas Garcia: In this we did, no, I look, like from here, not here, I like from.
Line 52	Martha Torrez: A foot averages like.
Line 53	Felicitas Garcia: He would make a hole in it and here we would make a hole and put the firewood in for the house, there he would.
Line 54	Martha Torrez: One on one side and then left.
Line 55	Felicitas Garcia: The other one and in the middle I put the pots of whatever was going to be cooked.
Line 56	Martha Torrez: Outside.
Line 57	Felicitas Garcia: Outside, it was flat and freezing cold. But what? So she could cook, because she was playing around, but she didn't do anything there anymore, and we were arriving at the main police station.
Line 58	Felicitas Garcia: And there we were, a man, a Chinese man who was cooking. He called me, asking if I knew how to make an omelet, and if I didn't know how to make one, he didn't know how.
Line 59	Martha Torrez: Or I didn't know how to do it.
Line 60	Felicitas Garcia: If I said, as if it were a matter of course, "Let me sleep with you. I'll pay you a peso a day." Or was my salary too big for me? "No, no," he said. "You don't know people." "I'm not telling you how I don't now."
Line 61	Martha Torrez: Prisciliano, her husband, told her.
Line 62	Felicitas Garcia: No, you didn't say what you're going to do to them? I expect them to pay me. I'm not going to wait for your money. I have to go to work, I have to fight for myself. I'd have left and would have come back to Mexico. They were already working and didn't want to eat bread, they wanted to eat tortillas. Well, just look, I'll fill this sack of flour with flour at the warehouse.
Line 63	Felicitas Garcia: We're going to get the flour. And I would knead a tray of flour and I would start making the tortilla and I would sew beans in them. I would make soup because there wasn't any, because it was with my salt. And you have to train the company. I mean, I would open everything where she would make a casserole of food and she would sew beans and everything for a peso.
Line 64	Felicitas Garcia: They paid me one peso per week.
Line 65	Martha Torrez: Week, they paid him.
Line 66	Felicitas Garcia: Per day, that's per week. No, no, no. Well, you like to work. I mean, when I'm here, I'm not doing anything. Seriously. I want to work. Well, you want to work, then let's go. Good pair of clearing. I cleared an acre a day.
Line 67	Martha Torrez: Yes my boss.
Line 68	Felicitas Garcia: I came, but I was so tired I wanted to crawl, but I didn't say, "No, no, what are you going to work for? Why are you going to work?" Or if you're going to work, then go work. I stayed because I was very good at cooking. Oh, I was very good at cooking. I remember there were a lot of rabbits, and I told them, "Where are there?" I said, "I'd like to set a trap." I said, "I'd like to set a trap." I said, "I'm catching a rabbit."
Line 69	Felicitas Garcia: What do you like about black meat? They say to me, well, I don't. Well, if you don't like it, you don't eat it, but I do. And I put a basket there, a round basket, all finished with legs. I started weaving with grass that wide, I started weaving it, and it became a big basket. I went and grabbed some sticks. I grabbed them, otherwise I wouldn't have tied them together. I crossed them here.
Line 70	Martha Torrez: In the middle, like this.
Line 71	Felicitas Garcia: And then that basket would stop the stick up and grab the written channel at the top. And here it was, in the trap, they would put a basket in case someone asks a command in case the bunnies came and just go through the door underneath instead of moving forward. You're going to be cut off, I said, because what animal is going to cut off your hand.
Line 72	Felicitas Garcia: And I would catch rabbits here, clean them, kill them, clean them, remove all the ribs and the shell, leaving them with just the rabbit meat. Then, I would put them in a tray I had. So I went to the same police station, and there was a Mexican man who said, "In New Mexico, well, that man told him what he was going to do with this tray."
Line 73	Felicitas Garcia: He tells me, "They're going to the trash, they're not clean, I'm going to take one." "Take them all," I said. "I took two." So I made a little tray, because I removed all the ribs, and from the rabbit meat, I arranged everything nicely on that little tray, covered it with another tray, and put it where I made the hole. I put my tray in there and then covered it, then I did the other thing.
Line 74	Felicitas Garcia: My meat was roasting around there, but it was good. And he said, "Hey," he said, "This meat is so good, it seems to me that this meat is dog meat." What? Well, don't eat it. If it's dog meat, then don't eat it. I'm hungry right now.
Line 75	Felicitas Garcia: If I don't go to the police station, well, that's it. She says, "Do you really want to work?" Well, yes, really. I mean, this man who's working at the Mexican police station here in New Mexico, he tells me. And he wants someone to work, to help make tortillas, and I said, "Would I go?" And that's when he's going to pay me a peso a week to make tortillas in case she doesn't do it for him.
Line 76	Felicitas Garcia: I'm going. I'm going this far. This is going well. I left, I left. He called me. He's my cousin, I went to work with him.
Line 77	Martha Torrez: Many Mexicans remember, Doña Felicitas, the time you came.
Line 78	Felicitas Garcia: Yeah.
Line 79	Martha Torrez: There were already a lot of people in 1910.
Line 80	Felicitas Garcia: Oh, yes, there were a lot of Mexican people, well, there was bread with the underworld, there they were in the police stations, they had warehouses with breadsticks up to the top, no, because well, I made them. There were three old men who wanted a tortilla, well, look, I made a ball of dough and we made balls, not big ones, small ones, because there were black people there with them, the black people with the forks would stick all the tortillas in and take them. The old men, they kept their mouths hanging open.
Line 81	Felicitas Garcia: Well, because they don't grab it, because the blacks snatch it for themselves, they snatched it. No, I'm not going to make tortillas anymore, I told the man. No, not anymore, I'm making tortillas here for the blacks. So, why do you leave them to fight with the blacks? They don't eat, right? What, huh? Well, one day, around noon, he arrived at the police station and they were working. He came to take a walk, and when he arrived, some blacks were fighting with me, trying to take my tortillas.
Line 82	Felicitas Garcia: I brought them to give to the old Mexicans. He said, "Now it's okay, now it's fine, I'm working. One day they're going to beat you so hard you'll have no way out." They couldn't. No, they couldn't. It didn't go any further. I didn't like finding out. Well, no more working here, well, no more, well, we're leaving. Well, when we see each other again, we'll also have the tent I had.
Line 83	Felicitas Garcia: Well, I stayed there. By then, I dug a hole in the ground and put a pot of beans and sacks in it. And then I put up a tent. And a gust of wind came and blew the tent away and left me in La Carmen, leaving me rooted in the struggle to hate each other. (Inaudible) Nothing left me but the pot of beans. So, I went around praying to my God to see what I would do.
Line 84	Felicitas Garcia: Look, I saw a lady there yesterday. And she saw me doing something that didn't have anything to do, and she told me what I was doing. I was sewing my beans. I'll take them and sew them. Now, ma'am, I've been there for many years, in that, in that place. Someone check.
Line 85	Martha Torrez: And this lady lived in a house.
Line 86	Felicitas Garcia: Yes, even in a little house, she'll sew my beans and help me make tortillas. I started making tortillas. We'd already cooked, and it was almost time for the men to get off work, so I gave myself a tortilla, beans, and half a piece of meat with chili—she gave me everything.
Line 87	Felicitas Garcia: Now, with my food, very happy, she tells me, "If she doesn't offer to go around asking for food from door to door, or if the woman named Román Reglas doesn't, we'll talk then." Well, I don't talk to the woman who, apart from helping me, gave me all this food. So, with her, she tells me, "You know, that man who owns the police station needs help, and he pays me one peso a day."
Line 88	Felicitas Garcia: For God's sake, what can I say if I tell him I'm going? Well, I went to help the old man. Well, I was already working on kneading dough so he could make caps for all the Black people. No, blessing, I'm not going to make big ones for the Black people. I'm just going to make a few. Yes, that's it. I'm not going to work hard, I'm just going to do no, or I'll get angry.
Line 89	Felicitas Garcia: I'm leaving now. I left. I could have not worked. No, I won't anymore. Why not? Because that woman wants me to make a fool of the black people. No, no, no, she's not going to make a fool of the black people. I mean, the black people, I didn't say, "You're not good for work." They don't tell me, "I'm not good for work." No, not anymore.
Line 90	Felicitas Garcia: Let's get to work. Let's go. He's not missing.
Line 91	Martha Torrez: And how much did they pay you per acre, Doña Felicitas?
Line 92	Felicitas Garcia: $10. Paid by the acre.
Line 93	Martha Torrez: Listen, I'm thinking he did. And then they put the tent back together after the wind had blown it away, the compost.
Line 94	Felicitas Garcia: The compost is, no longer until the tent.
Line 95	Martha Torrez: And they continued living there.
Line 96	Felicitas Garcia: We're still selling here, no more. We lasted about a week, and the factory there didn't stop. At the factory, there were already some average houses, not good ones, but there were some houses.
Line 97	Martha Torrez: Which factory was the owner.
Line 98	Felicitas Garcia: From the Sugar Factory.
Line 99	Martha Torrez: Her husband went to work there.
Line 100	Felicitas Garcia: There and there he worked.
Line 101	Martha Torrez: What year was that?
Line 102	Felicitas Garcia: Little work. Oh, I think it was like the end of 1910. The deadline was almost up. By the end of the year, he was already there. And then he got a job on the railroad and kept working until he died.
Line 103	Martha Torrez: Until he died. Then. Many years.
Line 104	Felicitas Garcia: Many years. Well, I'll send you my check, I'll take your check from the railroad company.
Line 105	Martha Torrez: That remains.
Line 106	Felicitas Garcia: Now, that's good, huh?
Line 107	Martha Torrez: You were born in Mexico, Doña Felicitas. Was it difficult to come from Mexico here to Idaho?
Line 108	Felicitas Garcia: Yes, I was born in Mexico. He was born in Conde Romano. Mhm. From Rincón de Roma, in Nava del Señor de las Angustias. Do I even remember the father's name? Father Ignacio Carranza, the father who baptized me. Later, I met someone born in Rome.
Line 109	Martha Torrez: What do you remember about Mexico? What do you remember about Mexico?
Line 110	Felicitas Garcia: Well, nothing, nothing. No, no.
Line 111	Martha Torrez: Don't you remember how old you were when they came? They crossed from Mexico into the United States.
Line 112	Felicitas Garcia: United when we crossed from Mexico. I was 18 here, 18 years old.
Line 113	Martha Torrez: And how old were you when you got married?
Line 114	Felicitas Garcia: Mmm. I got married when I was 14.
Line 115	Martha Torrez: So when? Because she says that when she came she was already with her husband, they were already married.
Line 116	Felicitas Garcia: Mexico, already 14.
Line 117	Martha Torrez: So the first place in Idaho they came to live was Cherry.
Line 118	Felicitas Garcia: There in Cherry. We used to work there with the Del Azucar Company.
Line 119	Martha Torrez: And they either stayed here or lived in other towns.
Line 120	Felicitas Garcia: No more, we don't have cows anymore. Here in this town. He got a job on the railroad. And he died here.
Line 121	Martha Torrez: Remember the salary they paid him when he started one.
Line 122	Felicitas Garcia: Weight in it.
Line 123	Martha Torrez: Railroad? One peso per.
Line 124	Felicitas Garcia: One peso, per day, per day. That's for the band. So one peso in.
Line 125	Martha Torrez: Do you remember where you used to go shopping when you went to buy food?
Line 126	Felicitas Garcia: I wouldn't go out anywhere. That was all. I never went out. Charlie.
Line 127	Martha Torrez: Who was in charge of everything. So her husband.
Line 128	Felicitas Garcia: He.
Line 129	Martha Torrez: He did the shopping for food, clothes, and everything you work for. Why didn't you go out, Doña Felicita?
Line 130	Felicitas Garcia: Send?
Line 131	Martha Torrez: Why didn't you go out?
Line 132	Felicitas Garcia: He wouldn't get me out. And there was a place where they sold percale very cheaply. They were selling the stuff for ten cents.
Line 133	Martha Torrez: Stop messing around.
Line 134	Felicitas Garcia: From fishing out there. Come on. I bought one. Do you know how much a good fishing package would be? I started making my dresses. I... I don't know. Like this. On the cotton base were my cotton balls and the meat. Carmen Nothing. All of it. I made a big winch. Well, the plan is longer than I said. From going. I started sewing.
Line 135	Felicitas Garcia: That was all I had. Yeah, well, he wouldn't let me go anywhere. Well, right there, in this fighting part?
Line 136	Martha Torrez: And why didn't he let her out? Why do you think he didn't let you out?
Line 137	Felicitas Garcia: Let's see. I don't know. It didn't get me anywhere.
Line 138	Martha Torrez: I didn't go out to church to mass or this to mass.
Line 139	Felicitas Garcia: Yes, I did go to mass alone. No, no. The church was very remote.
Line 140	Martha Torrez: Do you remember how Mexican people were treated back then?
Line 141	Felicitas Garcia: Oh, not very well. But I don't think so. He treated her. No, no, no, it was the Mexican people who were the Americans here.
Line 142	Martha Torrez: Let's see, tell me. Why do you think he didn't want them?
Line 143	Felicitas Garcia: No, because. No, no, no. They did a lot. Like a lot of conversation, friendship, and no, nothing.
Line 144	Martha Torrez: Don't you recall any incidents where someone was mistreated? Some Mexicans?
Line 145	Felicitas Garcia: No no.
Line 146	Martha Torrez: Regarding education, Doña Felicitas, did you go to school, did you have an education?
Line 147	Felicitas Garcia: I didn't do it.
Line 148	Martha Torrez: Nothing.
Line 149	Felicitas Garcia: I'm not getting a bad name yet. Right now. Her husband didn't know a little bit. Not much, just a little bit, because he didn't either.
Line 150	Martha Torrez: Didn't you study at school either?
Line 151	Felicitas Garcia: No, no, because my father-in-law didn't go to school either, and they did. He was. He was an Indian. My mother-in-law was an Aztec Indian. Mhm. No, he didn't give him much schooling. So. Well.
Line 152	Martha Torrez: Her husband did not struggle at work due to lack of.
Line 153	Felicitas Garcia: He didn't struggle. He didn't know how to pronounce his name, because that was all there was to it. But he found work in a new one. And there's work here. Here in our town. He worked until he died. He was already in bad shape, already retired. When he died...
Line 154	Felicitas Garcia: Saint Anthony.
Line 155	Martha Torrez: Her husband. He died. What did her husband die of?
Line 156	Felicitas Garcia: By. No, no, no. I never could. Until Labor Day. I don't know the case that he died here in. In this town.
Line 157	Martha Torrez: Do you remember what year your husband died?
Line 158	Felicitas Garcia: No, I don't remember. I don't remember that he hasn't died yet. But here on the tombstone. Does anyone know what year he died? I was waiting for when.
Line 159	Martha Torrez: A plaque they have there.
Line 160	Felicitas Garcia: The. In the factory or.
Line 161	Martha Torrez: In the cemetery?
Line 162	Felicitas Garcia: In the cemetery?
Line 163	Martha Torrez: You had eight children.
Line 164	Felicitas Garcia: Eight.
Line 165	Martha Torrez: Tell me about when they were children. About the way you raised them and their customs.
Line 166	Felicitas Garcia: When they were little, I don't remember them being that bad. They weren't. No, no, no.
Line 167	Martha Torrez: They did go to school. Yes.
Line 168	Felicitas Garcia: Yes, they went to school. They all have their role in school. They graduated from school. They're from school here.
Line 169	Martha Torrez: He says right now. So his youngest son is the one taking care of her here.
Line 170	Felicitas Garcia: In Mar Chiquito Menor. Agreement. How old are they?
Line 171	Martha Torrez: But he prepares your meals for you.
Line 172	Felicitas Garcia: He gives me my food. If not. And my daughter too. She brings me food sometimes.
Line 173	Martha Torrez: Your children? Do they all live near you?
Line 174	Felicitas Garcia: They all live so close to me.
Line 175	Martha Torrez: What did you like about this state, Doña Felicitas? More than you remember. What did you like most about living here in Idaho?
Line 176	Felicitas Garcia: Well, I like everything.
Line 177	Martha Torrez: If I was going to ask him.
Line 178	Felicitas Garcia: The work in Mexico is almost the same as here, almost none.
Line 179	Martha Torrez: If I was going to ask you to tell me about your parents, what you remember about them.
Line 180	Felicitas Garcia: Of what they did.
Line 181	Martha Torrez: The work they did. Oh!
Line 182	Felicitas Garcia: My father worked for a very rich man. He worked with them. So, the land had to be cultivated with animals. There wasn't any machinery, because there would have been machines, but he had to work with oxen, which made sticks. And those little animals walked and opened the nuts. And when the cornfield was already planted, we had to remove the weeds.
Line 183	Felicitas Garcia: We didn't get paid, but the Lord gave us much more than we could have planted where we wanted to. He planted, but he didn't take that harvest away from us; we still had to collect it for ourselves.
Line 184	Martha Torrez: Before we started recording, you were telling me that you also worked in cotton and that you were going to work in the hills. Let's see, tell me about the hills again.
Line 185	Felicitas Garcia: We worked in the hills. There were some pieces of wood that we had to climb up, and there we just dug the holes with a stick and took them to plant beans. Here we would plant two beans, then we would harvest corn, then we would add two grains of corn and cover them up, and no one had to go clean. I would walk around bent over, baking. That man didn't only grow crops in those hills, back then.
Line 186	Martha Torrez: When they went to the hills, they stayed there for a few days and then came back down.
Line 187	Felicitas Garcia: If not, we'd stay there for a month or more, depending on the work my dad had to do. As I've already told you, we really counted a lot. There were places where there were many of those sticks that are coming out of Palencia, one for the bars and one for the saddlers for the drumsticks.
Line 188	Martha Torrez: May I have your permission? Okay. Since you can't sign your name, would you give us permission to use the information you just gave us to continue our study of Hispanic history in Idaho?
Line 189	Felicitas Garcia: Mhm.
Line 190	Martha Torrez: Will you give it to us so we can use this information?
Line 191	Felicitas Garcia: The name, mine.
Line 192	Martha Torrez: No, no, no, just as long as you give me your permission for the recording you just gave me.
Line 193	Felicitas Garcia: Ah.
Line 194	Martha Torrez: Is it because you say you don't know how to sign your name?
Line 195	Felicitas Garcia: No, daughter, I don't know how to sign my name.
Line 196	Martha Torrez: But the conversation we had today is okay with you, right?
Line 197	Felicitas Garcia: Yes. Okay.
Line 198	Martha Torrez: Well, thank you.

Garcia, Oscar

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: Well, Mr. García, first I would like to ask you how your family came to choose to come to this country.
Line 2	Oscar Garcia: To the United States? Ok, it was 1945, I remember I was 13 years old. I remember that, by the way, I came crying because no, no, I didn't want to come here, to the United States. I didn't know it, but at that time, thank God and our parents, our culture is respect our family or our parents.
Line 3	Oscar Garcia: I remember when we arrived, we crossed the river; there was a family, and the head of the family was Mr. Francisco Escalón. We crossed the river, Mr. Francisco Escalón was there, and he and his family were fishing and eating tomatoes. He asked my father and me if we had a job. And then the Mr. said, "Look, I don't have a job, but I have a brother who maybe can take care of you."
Line 4	Oscar Garcia: And the Mr. fed us. He took us to his house and gave us dinner in the afternoon. Then, he took us with his brother to the ranch where his brother lived. It was called La Blanca, on one side of Progreso, Texas, the bank of the river.
Line 5	Martha Torrez: So you met this man when crossing the river. Didn't you know him from before?
Line 6	Oscar Garcia: No, I didn't meet him before we crossed the river. This man was there, he and his family were fishing for tomatoes, and we got there by chance, right. And my dad spoke to the man and said, "Well, I can't give you work because I'm not a person who can help you, but there is a brother of mine who may need you," and the Mr. provided us with food. He then fed us, and we waited until the afternoon.
Line 7	Oscar Garcia: He took us to his house, he gave us dinner and after he gave us dinner, he took us with his brother to a ranch called La Blanca, on the edge of Progress, Texas, very close to the place, Tejas. And the man took care of us very well. He gave us work. I don't remember well because I was 13 years old at that time, but we worked with him for six months or a year.
Line 8	Oscar Garcia: I don't want to lie, but between that time. After that, I didn't know what an American was like or if my dad was recommended by someone. Maybe an American who was there picked us up at that little ranch called La Blanca, close to a little town called El Pueblo de Progreso, that is, close to the coast.
Line 9	Oscar Garcia: And the man brought us, that American brought us to La Teja, that is, close to the house where we lived, the street was mile marker two, no! Mile marker three, 13. We were there for a long time, I don't remember how many years, but from there we immediately moved to another ranch with a relative of the same American I came with.
Line 10	Oscar Garcia: And from there that man gave us the 53. That is, when...well, what do you want to know? When we arrived in the United States. What do you want to know? When we arrived in the United States, how did we arrive, how much did we work? How much did we earn, and what do you want to know?
Line 11	Martha Torrez: A bit of everything. Firstly, what kind of jobs did you do when you arrived? Firstly, when you arrived here, it seems that you arrived by crossing the river, that is.
Line 12	Oscar Garcia: Mojados
Line 13	Martha Torrez: You came illegally.
Line 14	Oscar Garcia: Mojados, that is truth, because that's what everyone tells us. When we worked with that man, that man, the Mexican we worked with, his name was José Escalon. I don't remember how much he paid us. And then when that gabacho was, as I say, or as I said a while ago, I don't remember how it happened, that man there, that gabacho.
Line 15	Oscar Garcia: Because he was there to pick us up and bring us there. We were there, then we arrived at the house he gave us. It was a, it was a warehouse, there were bags of box fertilizer, I imagine fertilizers and this sulfur. At least I got out.
Line 16	Martha Torrez: So why do you think your dad, your parents decided to come here?
Line 17	Oscar Garcia: Well, for the same reason that we've all been uneducated, humble people, and I think we all have the right to try to improve ourselves in one way or another. And I think that's why my dad decided we should come here, like I said a while ago, right?
Line 18	Oscar Garcia: And I even came crying, because I was coming to a place I didn't know.
Line 19	Martha Torrez: So you cried because you were afraid, you were afraid.
Line 20	Oscar Garcia: No, no, no, no, no fear, simply because I was going to leave my country, but at that time, as I say, as I said a while ago, I was 13 years old. I don't know if my dad was right, right? Maybe he was, because my dad was like me, he didn't have any education, and maybe he tried to make us, I mean, for his children like us, to make us better off.
Line 21	Oscar Garcia: And thanks to my dad and thanks to God, well, I still think that dad did something right for us, because even though I came crying from Mexico, right now, thank God, I'm sitting here with my children, my wife, my children, eh, I think that up until now my children and my wife and I haven't had any problems, I mean financially because we've tried to make our way like any other person.
Line 22	Martha Torrez: You say you were 13, so you were very young, right? Yes, of course.
Line 23	Oscar Garcia: I remember many things, and many things. I don't know what I remember.
Line 24	Martha Torrez: You say you crossed the river. How did you get to the river? Did you come by car? By bus?
Line 25	Oscar Garcia: Well, by bus to the Río Bravo, Tamaulipas. From there, we come in a Guayin. At that time the Guayin was pulled by mules. We arrived at the river bank to a ranch called El ajeno, which is Mexico. There, on this side is progress. So it belongs to that little ranch. I don't remember the name of that little ranch, that is, where we crossed the river, that Mr. Pancho Escalón was there.
Line 26	Oscar Garcia: Was it for six months or a year? Yes, I remember it was an American, but I don't know what that man was like there. And the man brought us to Texas and the house where he brought us so we could live in a warehouse, because there were sacks of fertilizer. I don't know what it was, but I do remember there were sacks of sulfur, and it was a little bit of one of those sacks.
Line 27	Oscar Garcia: That's where we lived. We slept on the floor, and I remember my mom cooking on a little table with three wicks in kerosene, as my mom used to call it back then.
Line 28	Martha Torrez: For cooking.
Line 29	Oscar Garcia: To cook and bathe, we used to heat, wash, and go to a canal near the canal. We used the canal for drinking, for bathing, for everything, and for bathing. Their rags kept my mom warm and warm. They would make it in those little three-meter-high things, and we would bathe.
Line 30	Martha Torrez: So, you're more or less telling me that you think your parents decided to come looking for a better life, a better life, or better job opportunities? What do you remember about Mexico when you were 13? What do you remember? What kind of life or lifestyle did you experience in Mexico before crossing the river?
Line 31	Oscar Garcia: Well, look, at that time, I can't tell you how my dad fed us because, thank God, back then when we were in Mexico, I don't remember us going without food, but I can't give you that answer because only my dad. Maybe he had a reason, right? Because like I said, I don't remember us going without food, but maybe he was thinking of a good future for us, right?
Line 32	Oscar Garcia: And well, the United States has opened the doors to all of us to a certain extent, but also, well, we all have our downfalls, right? Well, first of all, I was talking about America. It has opened the doors for us, it has given us the opportunity. But not because it's good, it has given us the opportunity. But we also have to take advantage of the opportunity, the one that the United States has given us, because many people say that we come from Mexico.
Line 33	Oscar Garcia: Eh, I mean, many people born here in the United States tell us that we come from Mexico to take their jobs and well, I remember that until now, thank God, I haven't gone to a rancher and told vacate that person, I already have a job, because we have come all the time or when we come from Mexico we get humiliated right.
Line 34	Oscar Garcia: Uh, well, we don't come asking for money or earning by begging, but we simply come asking for work, right? Uh, except that many people think the opposite, but well, up until now I think that thanks to God, well, and to my father, who doesn't know or he took a risk with us, well, he tried to open the way for us or I don't know, for some reason, it was all his, but right now, thanks to God and to my father and to the United States, well, as I said a while ago, the United States opened its doors to us and we did our part, so that's why I feel happy.
Line 35	Oscar Garcia: Well, there were times when we had, uh, things that were sort of discriminatory. I remember when we came to the West. Well, I was never turned away from anywhere, but from the moment I wanted to go to a restaurant to eat, I went to the movie theater where they said no Mexican, no Indian, no, but so, it was clearer, so then I didn't have to go in there. It meant that if I went in, they would throw me out, and to avoid that, it was better not to, no, I didn't go to that place.
Line 36	Martha Torrez: Do you remember roughly which year it was? It's true that the signs.
Line 37	Oscar Garcia: Well, it was in '50 and '54. The first town I saw that sign or that movie theater was in Texas, right next to Texas. It clearly said, "No Mexicans, Indians, No Dogs."
Line 38	Martha Torrez: And what was going through your mind? What did you feel when you saw that kind of response?
Line 39	Oscar Garcia: Me, so ignorant. But well, I thought, well, it was because of my ignorance as well, because something came to me from what I was saying, well. Why not Mexican? Because of the Indians? We Mexicans, we Blacks, all races, are human, right? Except for dogs. So. Well, I say, like I said, Mexicans, Indians, Blacks, right?
Line 40	Oscar Garcia: We Mexicans and Americans. We're all human. And why did they choose us Mexicans, Indians, and dogs? What's the difference? I mean, the difference between us humans and everyone else. They just said it right there. They don't explain it to me. No, no, Indian. No. True or not? Dog?
Line 41	Martha Torrez: And even the feelings you felt. You respected the sign and didn't enter.
Line 42	Oscar Garcia: Of course, to avoid the embarrassment that, well, maybe. Well, I thought if I entered the restaurant, they'd kick me out. And to avoid that, well, this one was good, I respected the sign on the restaurant door.
Line 43	Martha Torrez: And that sign reminds you of it in several places.
Line 44	Oscar Garcia: I remember that town, right? Many people at the time told us that's what it was like.
Line 45	Martha Torrez: In all establishments or...
Line 46	Oscar Garcia: Maybe not, right? But a lot of people, there are a lot of other people's comments, right? In such a town and in such a place, even the restaurants themselves. First of all, the restaurant. I remember back in '57 when we came to Lampa. Also, I mean, I've always liked to have a beer here and there, and I tried to go into a bar once, and the bartender said to me, you know what he says, don't try to go into that one, because there's no sign here...
Line 47	Oscar Garcia: But if you go in, they'll throw you out, and it was good that they didn't say "salt," but instead they'll grab your arm and throw you out. They can throw paper at you in Lampa. And that, that was in '50 and '57, and no, then that person told me, and I said, "No, why would I go looking for trouble, I don't, I never would."
Line 48	Oscar Garcia: And even though I'm not from here, no, I'm not going to try to look for trouble anywhere.
Line 49	Martha Torrez: Where was this person from?
Line 50	Oscar Garcia: He was my guy, I mean, he was Mexican, maybe he had that experience. He didn't tell me it had happened to him, but for some reason, I found myself trying to tell myself not to go in there, and I didn't. So I said, "Why not?"
Line 51	Martha Torrez: So it seems that you never had the experience of.
Line 52	Oscar Garcia: See a.
Line 53	Martha Torrez: God physically.
Line 54	Oscar Garcia: Yes or no? No, no, never. Thank God, until now, this one. But yes, as I told you, I was this one. I saw the signs on the doors of non-Mexicans, no dogs. Does that mean Mexicans and Indians with dogs are the same? And well, as we were just then.
Line 55	Martha Torrez: Aside from that, what other things do you remember about your first arrival in Idaho? What other things do I remember?
Line 56	Oscar Garcia: There are many things, right? But first and foremost, we came with the intention of working, not bothering anyone, but earning what we, thank God, have right now. But earning what we earned with our own sweat, because we tried to get here, we tried to give back to our parents. I've been here since '69, all my children stayed here, and this one.
Line 57	Oscar Garcia: Well, I tried to teach them about our culture, where we come from, what we are like, and our customs.
Line 58	Martha Torrez: How many years before moving on to the topic of culture and family? How many years would you say you were in the United States illegally?
Line 59	Oscar Garcia: Eight years, from '50, '45, to '54, I imagine. It's eight years, right? It seems like a long time, but you know, I had it all that time in the Texas valley.
Line 60	Martha Torrez: Those. Those eight years were there.
Line 61	Oscar Garcia: Okay, no, we couldn't leave because... Well, first of all, there were two of us plus two trajectories, but the fact that we came here was even less so. I remember when we arrived here, well, I was 13 years old, and that American I told you about a while ago, who was coming for us that little while down by the river, to El Progreso, the white one.
Line 62	Oscar Garcia: The Lord kept my dad and me busy, and this guy said I was a kid and couldn't make that much money. He paid my dad 75 and me 25, I don't remember. But it's something like that.
Line 63	Martha Torrez: The time or?
Line 64	Oscar Garcia: At night? At night, they're watering them at night. What I won't forget is '51, when there were no more orchards left in Texas. There was a ladnona, a frost that left no orange trees in Texas. That night, my dad and I were watering carrots.
Line 65	Martha Torrez: In the cold, so cold.
Line 66	Oscar Garcia: Well, I can tell you that all the orange trees froze. There were no orange trees left in the valley. Maybe 51 or 52. Let's see, there it is 51, 52, but there it is. But here I'm more than sure it was 51. That year all the orange trees froze. There, Texas, and that's what my dad and I called our summers.
Line 67	Oscar Garcia: And I remember there was more, a lot of sugarcane, corn, which we call the leftover corn. Here, we call it dry corn and whatever. My dad and I used to make a fire with that, with the corn, and we would go and change the water and try to keep the water even in the furrows.
Line 68	Oscar Garcia: When we saw her at night, right? As best we could, we saw her heading for the water, more or less for us, so we would meet at the edge of the fire to warm ourselves.
Line 69	Martha Torrez: He says they worked at night.
Line 70	Oscar Garcia: At night, when the 51st happened, that round of orange groves, my dad and I were watering.
Line 71	Martha Torrez: And as you could see, I say, they provided them with lamps.
Line 72	Oscar Garcia: I mean, it's not one of those kerosene lamps.
Line 73	Martha Torrez: The lamps were handheld. So they carried the lamp in one hand and did the work with the other.
Line 74	Oscar Garcia: We simply placed it on an edge so that the light would illuminate the truth for us and with the sheet we went digging so that the water would go away, let's suppose that there were rocks that had edges, these then with the hoe, that is to say that we saw the water that was being taken out, but then with the same lamp on the side that they took us out, well we saw that there was an edge of earth, or at least as far as we got, until we left the water.
Line 75	Oscar Garcia: So we had to dig furrow by furrow so the water would run evenly. We're going to put in 24 or 30 furrows. It depends on the amount of water that appears. We're going to put in 30 furrows. We have to check furrow by furrow to see if the water was running evenly or not. If not, we'll put it in, and if the water stayed too far back, it seems like some fat guy was holding it back, so you have to check that furrow.
Line 76	Oscar Garcia: They would get to where the water was and there the water itself would tell you why if this guy is stopping me, just take off your cap and you'll want it.
Line 77	Martha Torrez: At what time do you remember your work starting at night?
Line 78	Oscar Garcia: At six in the morning. From 6 in the evening until 7 in the morning.
Line 79	Martha Torrez: So many hours like that. That's why they worked four hours and then came back.
Line 80	Oscar Garcia: No, from the moment we arrived until dawn. From 6 p.m. until 7 a.m. when someone came to relieve me.
Line 81	Martha Torrez: So that job was done 24 hours a day. Only one person worked.
Line 82	Oscar Garcia: One goes out at night.
Line 83	Martha Torrez: And how old would you say you were during this time?
Line 84	Oscar Garcia: Yeah, well, by that time. Well, we came here, whoever had the 45. It was in '51, when that case happened to us that all the
Line 85	Martha Torrez: 50 y.
Line 86	Oscar Garcia: So six would be 50 and 45 for 51, six is 46 years.
Line 87	Martha Torrez: No, from 45 to 51 there are six, six.
Line 88	Oscar Garcia: 11. Well, but I was 13 years old.
Line 89	Martha Torrez: When I got here. Then.
Line 90	Oscar Garcia: Arrive.
Line 91	Martha Torrez: I was 19 years old. When I did this job, I... When I talk about this job, I had to work under certain conditions. Do you remember the rancher or employer providing you with more than the appropriate clothing for this work?
Line 92	Oscar Garcia: No, the boots.
Line 93	Martha Torrez: Or they didn't give them sacks, they didn't provide for them against the cold.
Line 94	Oscar Garcia: Just the boots.
Line 95	Martha Torrez: You had to buy everything else yourselves. After all this work. So what? What other harvests are there?
Line 96	Oscar Garcia: Well, we watered during that time. I mean, in the winter in the valley, we often had this, as they say, "the, the, the vegetable," this legume.
Line 97	Martha Torrez: So the vegetables are true?
Line 98	Oscar Garcia: Then they start returning to Lalito, nothing or something like that. Something like, it's impossible. The truth is, he's buried in the ground. So during that time with us, I remember that time they closed the gates of Naranjo in the Valley, which as I said, I don't remember, but almost no matter how much they set it to 51 that night they cut down all the my Godfather surrounding nothing, we were watering carrots.
Line 99	Oscar Garcia: I remember, maybe I'm forgetting, that it arrived at 8:00. Then they're going to hit the glass behind the doors and in front of the glass doors. We're going to give them such a beating. We do it. I don't know what to call it, it's just that they move like this. It's a glass, right?
Line 100	Oscar Garcia: But that's like a triangle, the glass is from the pitted walls of that time, and you opened that glass like this to get some air, all like this to get some air. And I remember nationality. And now I think about hearing this camera, really no, no general, that's how I remember how much we're going to be in the very, very cold weather and the humidity that the air brings inside, no.
Line 101	Martha Torrez: To make them colder.
Line 102	Oscar Garcia: Yeah, well, imagine, we were freezing in the hotel, like we were joking, right? I opened my suitcases, or a lot of people, if you understand what I'm trying to say, to let the outside air in, to see it was really cold, yeah, yeah, but well, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want the air to hit me.
Line 103	Oscar Garcia: But first of all, I couldn't tell him I didn't know English. So, I say, well, I think after they did what they wanted, they laughed. But, well, even God, God is the one who remembers experience.
Line 104	Martha Torrez: What do you think were discriminatory treatments?
Line 105	Oscar Garcia: Listen, there were so many, it's just that people here. They use their diplomacy to discriminate. You know what I'm saying with diplomacy. Well, so you don't know how directly. So there were many who... No, no, no, no, I can't buy them because there are so many, but this was the intention of both of them the whole time.
Line 106	Oscar Garcia: And perhaps all of this right now, all the illegal immigrants coming from Mexico, well, their intention is to come and work. And we've never been interested in asking, well, how much do they pay me? Instead, we say, "Do you have a job?" Or if these media outlets have already abused you, right? Because we've never told them how much we're going to pay, how many are going to work, right?
Line 107	Oscar Garcia: We're happy with the fact that they give us work, that we can earn an honest living, but this abuse is even worse than this, even though we earn with need and they have everything, and yet, even though they have everything and we have nothing, they still want to put us down.
Line 108	Martha Torrez: At some point, you all managed to legalize your status. What do you remember about that time when you decided to get legal documents?
Line 109	Oscar Garcia: Well
Line 110	Martha Torrez: The process they followed.
Line 111	Oscar Garcia: It was good. My dad and mom in '53. At that time, we lived there, in the valley of Texas. I remember that there, in McAllen, that's where they sell us passports. Well, I can't help but remember my dad and mom getting a Mexican passport, but I remember that José and I, my brother, went to get it marked on the Mexican passport.
Line 112	Oscar Garcia: It cost us $1,035. And at that cost, we filled out all the paperwork and completed the application for whatever we needed, and then they called us to schedule an appointment in Monterrey with American. At that time, I remember it was easy. I was thrilled that my brother and I managed. It was $80, $85 for both of us.
Line 113	Oscar Garcia: By the end of 15 days we were all here legally.
Line 114	Martha Torrez: And before legalizing your status, remember some experiences you may have had with migration.
Line 115	Oscar Garcia: Well, I know.
Line 116	Martha Torrez: The.
Line 117	Oscar Garcia: Well when.
Line 118	Martha Torrez: For Mexico.
Line 119	Oscar Garcia: When we came, we were about eight or nine years old, right? I was like eight or nine years old.
Line 120	Martha Torrez: Seems.
Line 121	Oscar Garcia: I came in '45 or '54.
Line 122	Martha Torrez: Nine years old.
Line 123	Oscar Garcia: As always, or as it's happened to all of us, we're working and suddenly we're caught up with immigration. I even remember there was a young Mexican guy there. He was here legally, I don't know, maybe he was Texan, I don't know, but he's here legally in the United States. I remember him throwing us off at immigration, and it was his pleasure that when immigration arrived, he would stop right there where immigration was, right in front of us.
Line 124	Martha Torrez: No.
Line 125	Oscar Garcia: Well, he felt proud, or I don't know what he felt, but I think he felt proud to see that immigration was taking us.
Line 126	Martha Torrez: He was a family friend and no.
Line 127	Oscar Garcia: No, no, no, just acquaintances, just that he was Mexican. And that's where I say how we Mexicans are. Instead of protecting ourselves, we're hurting ourselves.
Line 128	Martha Torrez: And you remember that he didn't, he did it himself several times.
Line 129	Oscar Garcia: Sure, because I remember one time immigration caught us, a guy who was from Mexico and spoke English very well—yes, he spoke very well, very good English, right? And immigration spoke to this guy. Then the guy who reported us spoke to immigration in front of the guy who was from Mexico illegally, but spoke very good English, and he understood everything they said to him.
Line 130	Oscar Garcia: They come to Fulano's ranch, the families are there, they're from Mexico, they're illegal, they go there and that person didn't just hurt us, he hurt many of us.
Line 131	Oscar Garcia: He and his family, like everyone else. We all lived through that well. I don't know if he paid for their immigration or not, or if it was just because they were pleased to see that immigration didn't take care of us. But no, it was only to us that he did that harm. In other words, his pleasure was seeing immigration come and lift us up.
Line 132	Martha Torrez: What happened next? Once immigration picked us up, what did they do with you?
Line 133	Oscar Garcia: Nothing. They just kicked us out for the same reason. Back then, things weren't as bad as they are now. I remember they kicked us out there in Reynosa, and then they just turned around and we crossed the river. We came back again.
Line 134	Martha Torrez: That same day.
Line 135	Oscar Garcia: It's good to have money in your pocket. Thank goodness because we already went out to eat and we'll come back. But I remember that, I won't forget that time, the first time the immigration officers caught me, I had three cents that I could buy three cents in Reynosa. And well, they caught me in the morning, and we went to Reynosa.
Line 136	Oscar Garcia: So, immigration took us to renew our visa around 6:00 p.m. I remember we slept on the bridge. At that time, it was so tough there in Reinosa, and a man who lived in Reinosa offered us the chance to sleep in his yard, but outside. We got up to have coffee.
Line 137	Oscar Garcia: We walked along the Rio Grande. We reached the riverbank—I don't remember what it's called on the riverbank. A man passed us and didn't charge us because we said we didn't have any money. He took us across on this side, and we started walking. And at that time, we were illegal immigrants.
Line 138	Oscar Garcia: I remember we arrived at night, let's say, on this side of the lake, a little while later, and some friends were cooking beans and making flour tortillas. We all know what we were going through at that time. Well, the same people saw us passing by and spoke to us, wet, just like everyone else.
Line 139	Oscar Garcia: You see, did you have dinner and lunch? No. Well, come back. There weren't even a few beans in tortillas left. Well, it wasn't very far. We were already home before dawn. But yes, we struggled a bit, but right now I think the people, the illegal immigrants right now, suffer more than us, because the people, the illegal immigrants right now, cross through deserts. If they don't bring water, many people have died of thirst, or because of snakes or spiders or young animals, even because of the delegation, because many of them are in the immigration office, I've noticed, but I can't prove it.
Line 140	Oscar Garcia: But I must say that there has been migration, many of them are killed. I don't know if they're killed because they're afraid or because they're confused, or whatever, I don't know. But I have heard it said, since I live, I can't verify it. It is. But they live in danger of snakes, spiders, muggers, even the migration, which as I understand it, there have also been times when the migration itself picks them up and gives them a lunch, but I don't know how many times that happens, because I've also realized that migration kills them, but as I say, I don't know what the reason is, or why they're afraid, or the migration itself, or it has to give a reason.
Line 141	Martha Torrez: And then, uh, you think, well, you say it's harder now.
Line 142	Oscar Garcia: If it's new, add more. People.
Line 143	Martha Torrez: He doesn't remember, he doesn't remember having suffered so much when they were crossing or.
Line 144	Oscar Garcia: Well no, just hunger and people today suffer from thirst, hunger and fatigue.
Line 145	Martha Torrez: Because you say that when they returned them to Mexico they went and left them more or less at the Reinosa border.
Line 146	Oscar Garcia: That same day. And just as we were about to turn around, as they say, we were coming back again. I know we arrived home before immigration. At that time, we made fun of immigration, sometimes we made fun of immigration.
Line 147	Oscar Garcia: It would be good if immigration also gave us an opportunity. I remember one time I got them off the bus because they told me, "Do you live here?" and I said, "Yes." I think that's an opportunity because my brother and I got off and went to get our things, but we never came back, we never saw each other again.
Line 148	Martha Torrez: Do you think you were given the opportunity?
Line 149	Oscar Garcia: They already gave us the opportunity. Well, but for now, no more opportunity.
Line 150	Martha Torrez: I wanted to say something else.
Line 151	Oscar Garcia: No, I didn't mean that, but right now. Thanks again, we're all good now.
Line 152	Martha Torrez: So, do you think your life or your lifestyle changed, or did you no longer endure so much suffering after your family was legalized, after you became legalized? Do you think you've changed?
Line 153	Oscar Garcia: Because thanks be to God and the United States, because I can't, I can't leave out the United States. I can tell you something about a person who I can say is my people, that is, my race.
Line 154	Oscar Garcia: From a person born here in the United States who once told me.
Line 155	Oscar Garcia: He said, "Hey, I mean, in case you're wearing shoes. You must be proud of the United States. I mean, because if you were in Mexico you'd be wearing sandals."
Line 156	Oscar Garcia: No, no, no, I wasn't ashamed. Because the United States gave me the opportunity. But the United States didn't give me anything. The United States gave me the opportunity to see America. Here I am, and what I have, I have because I earned it, not because the United States gave it to me.
Line 157	Oscar Garcia: But if you take the United States into account, because it gave me the opportunity to be here where I am. And of course, the United States, well, no one here is going to give it to anyone just because, because let's say, if I, if I want the new promoter to give it to me, why would I give it to you? You have brothers, you have legs, you can work, right?
Line 158	Oscar Garcia: And I feel proud that the United States gave me the opportunity and if I have something it's because, thank God, it cost me my sweat and that's why I'm living until now, thank God.
Line 159	Martha Torrez: So you think you got that opportunity and all that.
Line 160	Oscar Garcia: And you have to seize the opportunity when it's given to you, but you don't have to abuse the opportunity either.
Line 161	Martha Torrez: It seems that you were migrants at the time, moving from one state to another.
Line 162	Oscar Garcia: Well, the first time we came to this state to watch football was in '57. Well, the first time was in '57, we went to Nice, Oregon. In '56, we were here in Idaho. We went back and forth to Texas until '69. Okay. Well, one of my brothers stayed. Basilio and César. And in the end, I stayed because they themselves made it clear to me that it wasn't in my best interest to stay.
Line 163	Oscar Garcia: I stopped working because my family, well, yes, if I wanted to study, yes, if they went there for work, I couldn't come here to study, so I tried to stay here instead. I'm already working, and I've been working here for 22 years with him and without a plan.
Line 164	Martha Torrez: What year are you referring to your family? Did you say later, once you got married, what year you got married?
Line 165	Oscar Garcia: Well, us. Well, I started in '56 and I was going back and forth to see my family. For eight or ten years, I was in Mexico, working for about six months here and another six months there. Finally, I decided to fix them, and I fixed them, and here we are.
Line 166	Martha Torrez: So for a while his family remained in Mexico and his children in Mexico.
Line 167	Oscar Garcia: In States.
Line 168	Martha Torrez: In Unidos you would come and work for a while and then go live there for another.
Line 169	Oscar Garcia: I worked here in Idaho. We came here to see, we came here to La Limpia, I went from here to California, there to irrigate cotton or pick peaches, fruit. But all the time we were following the job where I earned the money to support the family.
Line 170	Martha Torrez: Um. Are you informed or did you know about the bracero program? Should I tell you how it went there?
Line 171	Oscar Garcia: Well, I was a bracero in '48. Back then, we were still working as slaves in the United States, and they hired us in Texas. And the cotton laborers weren't enough to earn enough, so we had to prepare for the moment when we had to ask for a price.
Line 172	Oscar Garcia: And what's more, they didn't want to pay us what we asked for, but one person who sided with us, so we took him as a leader for us because that's what helped us. And if not, if you agree, if you don't pay us more, we'll go to Texas and from there to Mexico. Well, we all agreed, we endure the Lord.
Line 173	Oscar Garcia: I remember the Sheriff intending to arrest him, and we attacked him, not to beat him, but simply to get him to help us, the one who was trying to give us the Lord. In other words, he couldn't do it anymore. When he saw he couldn't do anything, he retreated.
Line 174	Martha Torrez: This group of workers were braceros.
Line 175	Oscar Garcia: We were all braceros, and the leader was also a bracero. At the very end, they said they weren't going to pay us what we most wanted and that if we wanted, we could walk with them. Okay, we agreed, and every time we took the old folks on our shoulders and left, we walked all day, and around six or seven at night, the trots caught up with us.
Line 176	Oscar Garcia: They managed to tell us, I don't remember in which town, but they caught up with us. It was already dark when they caught up with us, and that project no longer looked like ours. They said if we stayed, they'd close it down and we'd stop dreaming. They were already taking us to Mexico. But we had that experience. In other words, we've all had other problems. First of all, because we're Mexicans.
Line 177	Martha Torrez: You say that there were many problems with the Bracero program among the workers or just the program.
Line 178	Oscar Garcia: Haven't there simply been problems all along with the fact that ranchers often take advantage of the fact that we're illegal immigrants, and as I said a while ago, right? Well, you come with the intention of working, not to harm anyone, and yet they still take advantage of you because, well, we're from Mexico. We come to look for our place, something to improve ourselves.
Line 179	Oscar Garcia: To the family, and we can say 100% that we came from Mexico simply to work, to earn a living with our sweat, but not to harm anyone, and even so, well, they have treated us as they wanted, and since we were illegally at that time, well, we couldn't defend ourselves, because why would we complain, right?
Line 180	Oscar Garcia: Because simply because we were legal, we're afraid of everyone, so that's why they've done whatever they wanted, because we've been people who ignore the law here in the United States, we don't even know what we're going to complain about. Maybe we'll see the same immigration authorities, and they'll kick us out so they can get their way, and we've always been careful about that.
Line 181	Martha Torrez: During that time you were in the bracero program, do you remember the Hispanic population? There were many non-citizens in the United States who became citizens, right?
Line 182	Oscar Garcia: Well, yes, there was.
Line 183	Martha Torrez: Mexicans.
Line 184	Oscar Garcia: Yes, as always. I mean, there are a lot of Ciudadanos people here in the United States, but I can't say that, or I can't just throw you all on the same page, right? Because they haven't treated us well, and others have treated this one by far, right?
Line 185	Martha Torrez: That is, the same people.
Line 186	Oscar Garcia: Same same race as us that we've been. True, that's why we are where we are, because we try to make the same people want to improve themselves, and we ourselves try to bring them down because we're envious, or I don't know what they're like.
Line 187	Martha Torrez: He says that then in '56 you got tired and that's when you decided it would be better to remain stable, to no longer be migrants, and you decided to stay in the state of Idaho.
Line 188	Oscar Garcia: Well, I was legally here in the United States at the time when I got married. Well, no, no, I couldn't bring my wife here because I had to sort things out first, and I didn't want to sort my family out too well, because at that time I was coming to California, dealing with the problems of people who had families.
Line 189	Oscar Garcia: No, no, they rented houses anywhere, or not everywhere, because they brought two or three children. No, we don't want people or couples who bring children because they'll destroy our houses here. And if they didn't rent the houses, they took advantage of that money, and that's why I really didn't want to bring my family here.
Line 190	Oscar Garcia: But then I started to think, what was the point of being there? I'm from here, so I decided to fix them up, and here we are, thank God, as I say, from the United States.
Line 191	Martha Torrez: Because of his state, because he thinks that.
Line 192	Oscar Garcia: Well, it's a place where, not at the time when we arrived here, no, I'm already here. Wherever I want to find a job. I've been working with the company for more or less 22 years. When I started, at that time, I could quit work that day and go look for work another day anywhere and I'm already working, and now it's not like before. Right now, if I'm still with Siplac, it's because I'm trying to take care of my job, because it's not like before. Now, if I quit my job, I'm not going to get a job.
Line 193	Oscar Garcia: Easy. I mean, no, it's not that easy to go get another job, and if I get one, I'll get another job. Maybe I'll work harder and earn less. So I'm also thinking, what's the point of leaving a job to go work somewhere else? I mean, we're poor and we have to work, no matter where we go.
Line 194	Oscar Garcia: So, we want to live well and to have what we have, we have to work for money, otherwise we will either work or eat.
Line 195	Oscar Garcia: And thank God and the United States, right? Well, here I am with my family and... My family. Well, I'm proud that my family, well, everyone is here. Well, first of all, I'm not saying they have money because those jobs, which is the only thing I've been able to leave them, I mean, make them responsible for their jobs. And thank God, well, my family is here right now. We're all in Idaho, and it seems to me that we're all going to die and we're going to stay here.
Line 196	Martha Torrez: Before moving on to the topic, I'd like to ask you about education, but before we get into that topic, I'd like to ask you one more question. When did you get married? Could you give me a description of your wedding? Was it a traditional Mexican wedding or...
Line 197	Oscar Garcia: Well, yes, it was traditional because, well, it's Mexican custom, right? Do you want me to tell you the story of how we are in Mexico, how we could? Well, about when I asked for my wife, right? We're used to it when they give us a girlfriend, even from the moment they don't give us one. We have to be responsible for her.
Line 198	Oscar Garcia: So they already gave me my girlfriend, they gave me a deadline, right? Because my wife was a teacher in Mexico and my mother-in-law. She wanted my wife to finish her coursework, and they gave me a deadline, and during that time, it was my responsibility, it was mine. So my dad was telling me, you know, from now on, she's dependent on you.
Line 199	Oscar Garcia: So we came here to West Texas, or cotton glasses, and from here, let's say, I sent her the check so she could support herself.
Line 200	Martha Torrez: Before we got married.
Line 201	Oscar Garcia: Before we got married. Because, as I said, that's how we do it in Mexico. Yes, if you go and ask for a girl from the moment you get her or they say yes, then from then on she depends on the man, not on you?
Line 202	Martha Torrez: It's already starting to hold.
Line 203	Oscar Garcia: You already have the obligation to support her. And it seems to me that after I asked for her, we got married six months later, and during that time I was supporting her.
Line 204	Martha Torrez: What kind of wedding we had.
Line 205	Oscar Garcia: Well, I don't think it was a lavish wedding, but it wasn't just any wedding, right? Because I was here in the United States. I remember that at that time, tamales were very common at weddings, and they made what felt like two pots.
Line 206	Oscar Garcia: How many yards was that? Well, about two, one and a half, okay. And about half and a half wide, about one and a half wide, and about half or one wide. But then they made two pots of tamales for everyone to dine on. Beers, once they bought 30 cartons of beer. It was our Mexican custom, and at that time, dancing was customary from the time we met until dawn.
Line 207	Oscar Garcia: You know, we stayed there for that amount of time or longer. I took charge of two groups: an orchestra from 6:00 p.m. to midnight, and after midnight, a norteño group until 6:00 a.m. We went without eating the next day. But where was my music?
Line 208	Martha Torrez: And the dollar also yielded in that.
Line 209	Oscar Garcia: Day, right? Well, at that time, the dollar was worth a dollar. I don't want to lie. How much would 50 or 50 be worth?
Line 210	Martha Torrez: 12, 50.
Line 211	Oscar Garcia: 12, 50.
Line 212	Martha Torrez: Then he bought her wedding dress and they had their wedding together.
Line 213	Oscar Garcia: We got married and things turned out well. Thank God.
Line 214	Martha Torrez: Since you're newcomers, I'm already talking about when you brought your wife and family to the United States. What do you remember about that time? Were your children already old enough to go to school? Were they already in school?
Line 215	Oscar Garcia: Well, my daughter had all of school until 4th grade. No, no, no. But in third grade.
Line 216	Martha Torrez: The third.
Line 217	Oscar Garcia: In third year. And Oscar?
Line 218	Martha Torrez: Uh, It started here since the first year.
Line 219	Oscar Garcia: My daughter started third grade and then when we came here, well, Oscar, who is the oldest of the men, was the one who started school here in the United States.
Line 220	Martha Torrez: And what do you remember from those times? Like the daughter you already had.
Line 221	Oscar Garcia: Well, it reminds me that, well, after she had her third year of school in Mexico, well, here they gave her a grade as a good student, because it could be that even though she didn't have, she didn't understand the language, because of the education she had in Mexico, school was easier for her here in the United States.
Line 222	Oscar Garcia: That's what they remind me of.
Line 223	Martha Torrez: I don't remember her having bad experiences at school or the culture, the language and everything, right?
Line 224	Oscar Garcia: Well, let's see if this one, up until now, no, no, up until now, well, I've told my children that we shouldn't forget our culture. First of all, Spanish, right? Because a person who speaks two languages can be said to be two people. Another thing I don't like is the idea that
Line 225	Oscar Garcia: That they're filled with the culture of the United States, or well, I'm referring to ourselves, right? Because many of us, the race, said that Spanish isn't good. Well, no, no, no, I don't know, but I imagine that maybe the Americans themselves instill that, but you have to see this, that the Americans have always been smarter than us.
Line 226	Oscar Garcia: Maybe they're telling us no, no, no, to leave Spanish behind. But why are they learning Spanish if they're not that interested in it? What they want is for you to speak only English even though you're not American, for you to speak Spanish, that is, only English and not Spanish? So it's good for them because you're going to keep English even though you're Mexican. You won't be able to speak Spanish anymore. But they're going to study Spanish and they'll always be like they have been until now, and they've been superior to us because they speak their language and they speak the language better than we do.
Line 227	Oscar Garcia: Why? Because they study our language, and they're thinking, let's leave these Mexicans who don't speak Spanish. So we're going to speak our language and theirs, and we're going to make the games because they won't know what we're going to do. Or we're going to put them in places where bilingual people work, right?
Line 228	Martha Torrez: Okay.
Line 229	Oscar Garcia: How many Americans speak Spanish better than me, right? Because they're thinking about their own. Because if they learn Spanish, English, they don't give up. And why don't they give up, right? They're simply thinking that if they, as Americans, speak English, it's natural, and if they learn the Spanish that is, they'll be superior to us, because we're stuck with English. Even though we're Mexicans, we're stuck with just speaking English and we don't understand Spanish.
Line 230	Martha Torrez: And it seems from your speech that this is true. Language and education are very important to you. Did you attend school? Did I say, did you go to school in Mexico or here in the United States?
Line 231	Oscar Garcia: No, here in the United States I never went, in Mexico I went, but unfortunately at that time, well, no, there weren't places like those spoken now in Mexico, now there are places where schools are established and at that time, well, I don't know what's happening, that they move us from place to place, eh? Weren't they very, very special places or very, if you could say, very special for a school that weren't just some shabby little houses there, eh?
Line 232	Oscar Garcia: We were up and down, so the problem is, and the ignorance of one, well, we weren't interested, at least not me. I don't remember being very interested in school, that's why I didn't learn much when we came here to the United States, since I was 13 years old and well, we came with the need for work, to survive and instead of sending me to school, that is, not working and until now I have not stopped working.
Line 233	Martha Torrez: But from an educational perspective, do you think it is good?
Line 234	Oscar Garcia: Now I do think about my children that I would like them to study, but some have wanted to study and others have not, and my interest is that they are someone who will not be struggling like I struggled like I am struggling until now because well, until now, I have done it because I have been working in a place for years and now if they demand education from me, well, it will be too late because they should have done it well.
Line 235	Martha Torrez: Even though you had very little education, would you say you had more, more than your parents?
Line 236	Oscar Garcia: I think so, because my mom couldn't read or write anymore and my dad wrote very, very poorly, and well, I'm not saying that I'm a professional, but I can put my name on it.
Line 237	Martha Torrez: How would you say that? In your opinion, how would you say educational opportunities for Mexican Americans here in the State of Aragón have changed? Do you think they've changed? And if they have, how have they changed?
Line 238	Oscar Garcia: Well, this hasn't exactly changed at all, right? Because whether we want to acknowledge it or not, there's always discrimination against us Mexicans. First of all, Americans discriminate against us very diplomatically, so we need to analyze things carefully to notice that they're discriminating against us. But yes, yes, yes, yes, there's a lot of discrimination, right?
Line 239	Oscar Garcia: I mean, I watch TV every day and if everyone is complaining about discrimination, I mean, this one or they want, Americans want nothing bad from them and they're not interested in what other people have to do with them, because I've seen that the number of Hispanics who are studying is very low, the education of Hispanic people is very low compared to Americans.
Line 240	Oscar Garcia: So, it's very noticeable that they're discriminating against us in one way or another. They're just not looking at us, they're either very diplomatic or very soft-spoken in their discrimination. Even they know how to discriminate in ways that you don't understand, and if you do understand, well, we're going to help them with that for a long time.
Line 241	Martha Torrez: So, in your opinion, would you say that there are not enough Mexican Americans studying or taking advantage of studying?
Line 242	Oscar Garcia: About race? It's almost very rare for us to graduate, just to finish high school.
Line 243	Martha Torrez: And of the few who are in school, would you say they get good grades, which they also do in school?
Line 244	Oscar Garcia: At what time is it one or the other?
Line 245	Martha Torrez: It's about the economy. Would you say your financial situation is even better than your parents'?
Line 246	Oscar Garcia: Well, to a certain extent, yes, because first of all, since we're here at the Yellow Siplac plant, we get a job, which is a stable job, and as I say, if we want to live well and have what we have, we have to work every day. Nobody likes to be constantly working, but we have to work for each other whether we want to or not, because we're poor and, let's say, work, and if we don't work, we're going to have problems, or struggle, or find work, like we did before.
Line 247	Oscar Garcia: We would work one part and then the job would end, then we would move on to another and we are never stable in one place so now I am happy with it.
Line 248	Oscar Garcia: With the job I have and the economic system, we're doing well so far, thank God.
Line 249	Martha Torrez: How did you end up getting this job? Because I imagine you came straight from the labor force, right?
Line 250	Oscar Garcia: We're going to get to what we were talking about before. It's true that we were thinking about education. At that time, we were working. One of my brothers stayed here. First, he made me see things. He told me, and I think that this whole thing is about work. Your family will never get an education from that, because if one job ends, you go to another. So, take them out and take them somewhere else. And so, you send everything to send your children, and they won't learn anything.
Line 251	Oscar Garcia: And that's what made me stay here thinking about my children, about wanting to study.
Line 252	Martha Torrez: And through your brother, were you able to find work at the plant?
Line 253	Oscar Garcia: Yeah. Well, he was working there through him, so he was the one who recommended me, and I'm still here.
Line 254	Martha Torrez: Tell me what you think determines who has the best jobs and earns the best salaries, like where you work?
Line 255	Oscar Garcia: Well, people who are better educated than me, responsible people, these are the ones who have the best jobs there. Well, I'm not exactly an educated person, but I do consider myself a responsible person because I'm there, I'm here. The first two years I worked as a heavy-duty worker, I lasted two years, now I've been working as an operator for 20 years, and I'm still here.
Line 256	Oscar Garcia: Well, I think it must be because I don't feel like it, I don't want to be important, but I think I've been responsible in my work. So, he continued and said that there are people who have good jobs, but they don't go there day after day, and those people, well, no, they're not responsible and they don't accept them.
Line 257	Oscar Garcia: And for me, since I worked there for two years, I've been there for 22 years. I worked for two years as a heavy duty operator, and now I've been an operator for 20 years in various areas. I'm a plant operator, and I'm still an operator right now.
Line 258	Martha Torrez: Would you say there are differences in the way people are treated? Men and women treat each other differently at work.
Line 259	Oscar Garcia: Well, the way I see things, the person who's responsible is the one who doesn't, no, or as they said, there's no difference. You just do your job and no one tells you anything. You're not going to work here right now, or for now, you're going to, or it depends, right?
Line 260	Oscar Garcia: How? As I say, you have to be responsible for your work, and you won't have any problems.
Line 261	Martha Torrez: So you haven't noticed any different treatment just because one is a man and the other is a woman? Gender differences aren't good.
Line 262	Oscar Garcia: This is the same thing for women and men; there's no other way around it. Women have worked with me there, and there are women who do the same work as a man, and there are women who don't; they won't put in the time. And even among us men, there have been people who will also put in the time, even though they're men. There are women who work, they do better work than men.
Line 263	Oscar Garcia: I say, because I've had people as assistants, I've had women, I've had men and women who aren't going to put in the time and there are women who do the work, just as there are men who are going to put in the time, let's say, they've always been at work.
Line 264	Martha Torrez: Let's continue with the next community theme. Which city or town would you say is your favorite in the state of Idaho or in the community you would like to live in?
Line 265	Oscar Garcia: Well, maybe I've been here for many years, or maybe I've been here for 22 years. For me, here in Lupper, Idaho.
Line 266	Martha Torrez: Because I would say it is a.
Line 267	Oscar Garcia: Favorite, because I've never had financial problems here and I've been fine until now, thank God and the job I have.
Line 268	Martha Torrez: So the most important thing for the community in this community.
Line 269	Oscar Garcia: My.
Line 270	Martha Torrez: Speaking further on the topic of family, do you remember your grandparents?
Line 271	Oscar Garcia: Yeah.
Line 272	Martha Torrez: What do you remember about them? Can you describe them?
Line 273	Oscar Garcia: Well, yes, in their time, they weren't people like us. We're very ambitious. We have something and we want more. And for them, they were more content with just living with that. Never. Well, first of all, in their time, there was no television, there were no radios, and this good furniture, I remember, my grandparents, well, they had wooden tools or nothing else, some simple calfskins, a pigskins, and that was the bed, we went to bed, I remember when we went to visit them.
Line 274	Oscar Garcia: They gave you a tough hide from a calf that had been finished off with lime, and the mattress, the bed, was a wooden platform. They didn't have the ambition to have a dining room or living room set, or even that, because of the kitchen. In other words, their stove was all wood, and there was no electricity.
Line 275	Oscar Garcia: Now, transporting from the ranch to the town on horseback or on foot wasn't as ambitious as it is now.
Line 276	Martha Torrez: Describe a typical day in your family, for example, this one. Do you think men and women, or boys and girls, treated each other differently at home? That is, did men have one task and women another?
Line 277	Oscar Garcia: Well, before well, we in Mexico.
Line 278	Oscar Garcia: Women were for the home, they were in charge of the house, that is, they helped cook. They didn't have to go to work to live. We men, like my grandparents, were. They worked and were responsible for the house. Not being a single mother, it's nothing. And now, if we want to live well, we both have to work, as a couple.
Line 279	Oscar Garcia: At that time it was not just men who worked, women were more at home.
Line 280	Martha Torrez: Whoever lived in his home lived only his immediate family, that is, his parents and siblings, or it also consisted of his family, his grandparents, his uncles.
Line 281	Oscar Garcia: Current.
Line 282	Martha Torrez: When you lived with your parents.
Line 283	Oscar Garcia: Well, we lived with our family: my siblings, dad, and mom. After I got married, I no longer had to leave the house. Those of us who saw each other get married went out.
Line 284	Martha Torrez: Who would you say had this, or let's imagine who in your family right now has the most influence on the decisions made at home.
Line 285	Oscar Garcia: Since at the same time here at home I think, well I think that both of us, I mean we're going to put this first, just the man makes the decisions and right now I notice in myself the truth that I have to consult with my wife to make a purchase, whatever it is, for the house, or for me.
Line 286	Martha Torrez: And with his parents I would say it was the same when it came to them.
Line 287	Oscar Garcia: Yes, even in certain things I imagine it was the same, but before, machismo was used a lot, before, whatever, good or bad, like me is fine.
Line 288	Martha Torrez: Here, when you were working and still living with your parents, it was still customary for children to help them contribute income, that is, money.
Line 289	Oscar Garcia: When we were at home, we worked. We received the money as we received it. We didn't give it to Dad. So it depended on what we all earned. So he gave us money, depending on what we could earn. He gave us money so each of us could go to the movies or to our dance.
Line 290	Martha Torrez: So everyone provided.
Line 291	Oscar Garcia: But today, no one keeps anything with money, just money. It went straight to my father because he was in charge of clothing, feeding us, and all the expenses.
Line 292	Martha Torrez: At what age were they considered adults?
Line 293	Oscar Garcia: Well, for me until the day I got married.
Line 294	Oscar Garcia: I had to complete my studies at 24 years old, because even at 23 I was already working and I would give whatever I earned to Dad.
Line 295	Oscar Garcia: By the way, they had the right to do it, right? Well, I gave all the money to the house, and when I got married, my dad paid all the expenses, and I didn't do anything legal. If I gave all the money to the house for the money, I was just responsible for all the expenses.
Line 296	Oscar Garcia: No, no! When we got married.
Line 297	Martha Torrez: And when it comes to discipline, who would you say was in charge of your dad or your mom? Or both of them?
Line 298	Oscar Garcia: Well, in this case, that's it. Mom was usually the one who brought us the most, kept us closest. But Dad, when he did talk to us, it was for a good reason; and when we got into trouble later, it was because of one or two others. He almost never hit us or scolded us when he arrived. That's because we gave him a reason.
Line 299	Oscar Garcia: Us.
Line 300	Martha Torrez: Outside of your family, do you remember anyone who said you had a lot of respect for them?
Line 301	Oscar Garcia: Well, we got used to respecting our elders. I remember that when I started smoking, I didn't smoke in front of my dad and mom and other older people. I couldn't smoke either, and recently, before I got married, there were older people who offered me a cigarette. They offered me beer, but I never accepted because we got used to it. They taught us to respect people older than us, and I'm proud of that.
Line 302	Martha Torrez: And by doing this, that is, smoking or drinking, it was disrespectful.
Line 303	Oscar Garcia: Disrespect.
Line 304	Martha Torrez: That it was disrespectful.
Line 305	Oscar Garcia: And I feel proud of the fact that, at that age, we were taught that we should respect our children when they reach adulthood, because right now it doesn't exist.
Line 306	Martha Torrez: Is there anything interesting or some event, a story, a tale that you have that is interesting about your family, that you remember?
Line 307	Martha Torrez: Like with some party event, something that you remember the most?
Line 308	Oscar Garcia: Well, what I remember most was when, for example, during Lent, I don't remember, because we were very poor, I don't know how we did it at that time, maybe I could have, because I remember that during Lent every Friday the table seems full of pots full of food.
Line 309	Oscar Garcia: Well, humble food. I'm not going to say that with them it's very elegant, but it's simple food, right? But I do remember that we felt very happy when we saw the table full of food, or rather, it was the tradition of one of the Mexicans. During Lent, they used nopalitos, meatballs, well, I don't know, there was a food that the Chicales called it, fish, fish and shrimp broth.
Line 310	Oscar Garcia: That whole month the table was full of food. As I say, simple food is not luxurious food.
Line 311	Martha Torrez: What were the chicales?
Line 312	Oscar Garcia: It's solid corn. I remember that on Fridays we didn't get corn on the cob. Was that the solid corn field, right? They removed the husk, hung it like a wire rope, and let it dry. Right? They put it there to dry and then ground it in a mill that produced cracked corn. I don't remember if they added cilantro, chili, red pepper, and I don't know what else, but it was delicious, I think.
Line 313	Martha Torrez: For me it was called Chical
Line 314	Oscar Garcia: Already.
Line 315	Martha Torrez: Well, you'll be very pleased.
Line 316	Oscar Garcia: Knowing that this is still me. Yeah, well, I don't know, in other states because in Mexico there are various customs, I mean, the customs in different foods or... I mean, they're the same foods, they just have different names.
Line 317	Martha Torrez: Do you remember any sayings that have stuck with you the most? That were used in your family? Like a saying or expression that was used and is still used in every generation you can remember. You.
Line 318	Oscar Garcia: Like when is it when we have, when we could use that one.
Line 319	Martha Torrez: That is, among the sayings that are used a lot, they say it's like a saying that my grandmother or grandfather used to say and that is still used if you remember one, otherwise we go back to that one.
Line 320	Oscar Garcia: Right now.
Line 321	Martha Torrez: For now. So tell me who you're hanging out with, and I'll tell you who I am. What I'm asking you is, tell me what that guy looked like. Tell me who you're hanging out with, and I'll tell you who he is, and what he means by that.
Line 322	Oscar Garcia: Well, let's say, for example, if I'm a lost person and you hang out with me, then the fact that I'm a lost person and you hang out with me means that you're just like me, even if that's not true. But it's the saying, "Tell me who you hang out with."
Line 323	Martha Torrez: And like father, like son, it's like saying no. Well, that's how your father was. Well, that's how you decide, too. That's how your uncle was, because you inherited it, or that's how your mother was, because you had to turn out just like her, with the same vocabulary, the same character, or things like that.
Line 324	Martha Torrez: Would you say that your family still celebrates special occasions like Mother's Day on May 5th as it used to be, like Mother's Day?
Line 325	Oscar Garcia: Well, now we're going to form a musical group and sing Las mañanitas to our mom or our husband, and even now I still do it from time to time. Whenever I have the chance, I do it with my wife.
Line 326	Martha Torrez: These are customs, traditions, or principles. Do you think they've continued to be passed down through the generations?
Line 327	Oscar Garcia: We would like to, but no, I mean, it's not like we've been missing out on that, but I would like to.
Line 328	Martha Torrez: So you think it's important to maintain the traditions of our descendants. But why, in particular, would you say no?
Line 329	Oscar Garcia: First of all, here at Lupper, I can almost say I'm the only person who's done that. And this guy and many others have followed me. I mean, they've tried to do the same thing, right? Because let's say, I grab a band, I bring it here, we sing just that one to my wife, and the other comrade does it.
Line 330	Oscar Garcia: We're going to give my house—our friend's house—to my wife or my mom or... And so we've been going back, right? But you have to see, you have to see someone all the time. Someone who will do it or in a little while.
Line 331	Martha Torrez: So I'd say he was one of the first. I mean.
Line 332	Oscar Garcia: No, it's not wrong to say it, but maybe it is, because if I don't do it, then right now nobody, nobody has come, nobody, nobody has come to tell me, hey, well, let's go, we're coming here, we're going to the mananitas to see your wife or when she's coming, that is, to turn around, they're going to take them.
Line 333	Oscar Garcia: Nobody ever, I was always there all the time.
Line 334	Martha Torrez: Would you say that you have tried to make your children follow the traditions?
Line 335	Oscar Garcia: I have tried.
Line 336	Martha Torrez: Same place, same way.
Line 337	Oscar Garcia: But I don't think they did it. I don't remember the desire. That's it.
Line 338	Martha Torrez: But it is important to you.
Line 339	Oscar Garcia: Yeah.
Line 340	Martha Torrez: Religion, I would say, is also important.
Line 341	Oscar Garcia: Well, we're going to do it. Just the way it is. Yes, but I don't think so.
Line 342	Martha Torrez: Um. How do you remember meeting your wife before getting married at a church dance?
Line 343	Oscar Garcia: She was a teacher on a ranch in Mexico and she lived in a small town called El Pastor. And at that time, we didn't have cars or anything, so they would bring her on a horse, because that's what it was, that was a train that was going to go to Texas, eh, not anymore, there I found her at another little ranch, eh?
Line 344	Oscar Garcia: Well, there was a dance there, we just met. And here we are.
Line 345	Martha Torrez: And how long ago did you know each other? A few years before you got married.
Line 346	Martha Torrez: How has Mexican culture changed here in Idaho? How would you say it's changed in your lifetime?
Line 347	Oscar Garcia: Quite.
Line 348	Martha Torrez: It's less noticeable here. I mean, if you were in Mexico, what other occasions would you celebrate that aren't celebrated here?
Line 349	Oscar Garcia: Well, look, everything has been celebrated here. Let's assume the holidays are celebrated for the same reason people from Mexico come.
Line 350	Oscar Garcia: That's why these events have been held, but I remember that in the past there weren't the celebrations we have now, and now I think it's because I see more people from Mexico than anywhere else. Many celebrations have been held to remember Mexico.
Line 351	Martha Torrez: How do you identify yourself in terms of race or nationality? What is your nationality? Do you consider yourself Mexican or Mexican-American? No, that's not it.
Line 352	Oscar Garcia: No? Well, I can say I'm Mexican, since I'm from Mexico City. So.
Line 353	Martha Torrez: So, uh, you're basing that on because you were born in Mexico, not on skin color or language.
Line 354	Oscar Garcia: No, I don't know, simply because I was born in Mexico, raised here in the United States, you could say, because I came here when I was 13, and now I'm 58 or so, so I've lived in the United States longer than in Mexico. That's right. Of course, just because I've lived here longer, I'm going to say I'm Anglo-Saxon, because first of all, my color reveals that I'm not me; I'm still Mexican.
Line 355	Martha Torrez: And his parents identified themselves as Mexican.
Line 356	Oscar Garcia: Mexicans, that is, they are. I think so too.
Line 357	Martha Torrez: What is the pride you feel most about being Mexican?
Line 358	Oscar Garcia: Our customs.
Line 359	Martha Torrez: As.
Line 360	Oscar Garcia: Well, eh? First of all, this. Respect has always existed within families. There isn't as much freedom as in others. In other, you could say, nationalities or cultures, within us Mexicans. Well, right now with family, there isn't as much freedom as in other cultures. So, we have our own thing, and I'd like to keep it forever, but then who knows?
Line 361	Martha Torrez: Throughout most of this interview, you've talked about how important language is, how important culture is to you. Now, regarding language, do you think it's also important for your children, for your...
Line 362	Oscar Garcia: Well, look, we're in a country where we're supposed to speak English, right? But no, that doesn't force us to forget our own language. For me, it's important. Well, yes, we speak English, but it's not our own language, because, as I said a while ago, it's a shame to be Mexican and not know Spanish.
Line 363	Martha Torrez: But think about the ability to be bilingual is important for.
Line 364	Oscar Garcia: It's important because I just said a while ago that, like the Americans, for example, they're inculcating their language in us, right? And what's more, in schools, they don't want them to speak, to speak Spanish, but they speak God's language and study other languages, but their minds are more advanced than they know that if they speak, they speak two languages and they're just two people, and they just want to reach us with English.
Line 365	Oscar Garcia: And last of all, they are the ones who benefit, because they will speak their language and our language, and we will only speak their language, and we will not speak our language. So they have a huge advantage over us, because they speak English and Spanish better than we do.
Line 366	Oscar Garcia: So, they're going to get the best jobs because they're already learning Spanish, but they're not giving up English. What does that mean? They're thinking about themselves and about us, that they want to give us English and leave us there.
Line 367	Martha Torrez: Well, since you have six children, you think your children also experience this. Is it important to be bilingual?
Line 368	Oscar Garcia: Yes, I do. I would like them to be bilingual.
Line 369	Martha Torrez: But your children think that your children are also interested and that it's important to them. What do they think?
Line 370	Oscar Garcia: Well, I've made them see that it's important to be bilingual, but I don't know what they think about it. I've made them see that it's better to be bilingual. Because, if you think about it a little, look at Americans who think they can translate Spanish for Mexicans who don't know Spanish. So, do they know Spanish?
Line 371	Oscar Garcia: How would I ask you that question?
Line 372	Martha Torrez: That's not the question she's asking. Yes, if anything, whatever you think needs to be said is there. Because she's wondering if you think your children will be interested in being bilingual.
Line 373	Oscar Garcia: So I think not with that.
Line 374	Martha Torrez: You think to yourself, and you think you need to add something. You can do it. You think, no. My children.
Line 375	Martha Torrez: Well, I don't know how it goes. Like he says. He doesn't know. Yes, I think so, because they speak Spanish. If they weren't interested, well, they wouldn't speak it. Um. I mean, some speak it better than others, but they all try to speak it. I mean, several of my children have jobs that require them to be bilingual.
Line 376	Oscar Garcia: Yes, that's true, but this one. Well, since I was talking a while ago about that French guy who criticized the guy who was Mexican, look what that French guy said. Hey, I mean, it's a shame, I said, I'm asking you something in Spanish and you can't answer me. And I'm American and I'm telling you in Spanish what it is and you can't answer. And why can you?
Line 377	Oscar Garcia: Now me. He asked me the question. Hey, Oscar. What does a cesto mean, right? Then I told him. Well, it's a simple basket. He stopped from Toledo. Reed. That's how it was. It's a basket made of reed. And the one over there, when I got embarrassed. When the American told that guy that he's Mexican later. But he said that You're stupid, you are, you're Mexican, I'm asking you the questions in Spanish.
Line 378	Oscar Garcia: What's this? And you can't answer me. He says, "Look, Oscar. I was just asking him, but now he asked me." I told him it was a basket, so I wouldn't feel bad about the general. It's just that I come from Mexico. The Spanish spoken here and the Spanish spoken in Mexico are different.
Line 379	Oscar Garcia: Yes, but I'm American, and I know what a cesto is. And he said, "This guy is Mexican, and he doesn't know what a cesto is." Well, you're right, but you study, and he doesn't, right? So that's why I say that Americans study, but they don't forget their language and ours.
Line 380	Oscar Garcia: Here, the Americans themselves, are demanding that we only speak English, which is their idea: that we only speak English and they can speak English. If they can speak Spanish, they'll have more value than us, when we can also have the same value, because we can study English. We know Spanish, but if English isn't instilled in them, as is the case today, there are many Mexicans who don't know any Spanish, only English.
Line 381	Oscar Garcia: It's almost embarrassing to go and ask them a question. Well, I know a lot of people who are like me, and I ask them a question in Spanish, and they say, "I don't know, I don't speak Spanish." Hey, well, it's embarrassing.
Line 382	Martha Torrez: And why? What do you think is the reason for this?
Line 383	Oscar Garcia: Because we ourselves accept that the Americans themselves are listening to us speak their language. Or we accept it, we accept it, we never do anything because they tell us we don't want them to speak Spanish here. We never, ever defend ourselves, but simply don't want them to speak Spanish and we have to speak English. The last thing, no more English. We're going to speak because we haven't, we never have.
Line 384	Oscar Garcia: But I think that their language is English, of course, not for a long time, because we are in a country where we are all going to speak English, but not because we are going to speak more English, we are going to see English and Spanish, we are going to forget it because as I say, they speak their language and study another language.
Line 385	Oscar Garcia: And why do they want to take it away from us and just force us to see laws? I think we're wrong if we accept that.
Line 386	Martha Torrez: Well, we've reached the end of this interview. Before we wrap up, I just wanted to ask you a few questions about some events, such as World War I and World War II. Do you remember any things about some of these events, or the Mexican Revolution, that you'd like to share?
Line 387	Oscar Garcia: As for the Mexican Revolution, I can't.
Line 388	Martha Torrez: That he understood from his parents.
Line 389	Oscar Garcia: Not stories, but about history. As I said, I went to school for three years or more. The truth is, I still don't know anything.
Line 390	Martha Torrez: Don't you remember anything that left an impression on me from World War I or World War II? I don't remember anything from either of those two.
Line 391	Oscar Garcia: Or not, not earlier or not, I don't remember.
Line 392	Martha Torrez: What would you say is the most important thing to you in your life?
Line 393	Oscar Garcia: Well, I think that living well.
Line 394	Martha Torrez: Is there anything I forgot to ask you that you'd like to share or anything you'd like to add?
Line 395	Oscar Garcia: Well no, not at the moment, I don't know, I don't have one.
Line 396	Martha Torrez: And finally, this question isn't part of the interview, but as I explained before starting the interview, the purpose of this study is to document Hispanic history in this state. Right? What do you think about this study we're doing right now?
Line 397	Oscar Garcia: Well, I think it's okay, right? Because this. We should be proud of who we were, who we are. How we were treated before and how we're treated now. Right? And that's what I think, that it's important.
Line 398	Martha Torrez: Well, then, nothing remains to be done but to thank you on behalf of the Hispanic Commission and the other sponsors of this study. We thank you for taking the time to share.
Line 399	Oscar Garcia: Well, it's good that the loss of an organization that cares about.
Line 400	Oscar Garcia: Because of the problems, or because of knowing who we were and who we are, what problems we had, and, well, the difference between then and now. And I'm also happy that the little bit I've explained about you, I did so with pride, and at the same time, I'm grateful that you took us into account.

Huerta, Juanita Zazueta

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Line 1	Angela Luckey: The following is an interview with Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta by Angela Luckey. The interview took place in Mrs. Wertz home, 1135 East Fremont. Pocatello, Idaho, on March 9th, 1991. This is part of the Idaho Hispanic Oral History Project. Okay. Can you tell me when your parents when your family first came to this country.
Line 2	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: In the spring of 1918, about in April, may they come. And she did work in agriculture.
Line 3	Angela Luckey: So they were how did they come?
Line 4	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: In a train? They came on the train with a lot of other family, Mexican family who were bringing at that time.
Line 5	Angela Luckey: Did somebody go down to get.
Line 6	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They must have imagined that somebody would be there to bring. These people are married. Because, like, I believe it was the war time and they would bring it to different places. And they brought these people with but ones that come with my parents, they brought them to Lincoln, Idaho, near Idaho Falls, to the sugar factory. There you loom houses where they would house them for the Mexicans.
Line 7	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They would bring them. That's that. That was a that was a place they would bring them. And from there they would send them like to to Shelley and to different to. I can't really tell you, but there's little agriculture towns around Idaho Falls and around Ferd and Shirley. There's Goshen, there's Presto, Basalt... So those are the little places of the names of the little towns of that.
Line 8	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: There were farmers then. These towns were planted in these little places where the printed sugar beets and potatoes, and that's where they would house the farmers. I would imagine coming, taking the ones they needed, so many families that they needed.
Line 9	Angela Luckey: So they were housed in, in that one place. And then every day they would go out and come back.
Line 10	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They'd take them and keep them there. If, say, that if it was in this, it was in the spring, they would need them to work in the fields and the potato in the beet fields, like for thinning and growing. And so the farmers would just probably take the families that they needed to work.
Line 11	Angela Luckey: Did everybody work?
Line 12	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes, they came from work. I mean, the men folks were the men folks.
Line 13	Angela Luckey: But that not the women.
Line 14	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, not the women at that time. Not the women, not. I never did hear my mother say that the women would just their man work.
Line 15	Angela Luckey: But they brought the women with them.
Line 16	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes, they brought the families. They were families with children. And same family with children.
Line 17	Angela Luckey: So did your parents become citizens then?
Line 18	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No. My parents never did become citizens. They never really learned to speak English. And I guess they just I don't ever remember the term that they ever spoke about making themselves citizens. They just. My father worked on the railroad and he learned enough English to get by. But I never I never did hear the members say or nobody whatever ask them you know.
Line 19	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So they just, they just worked and lived, you know, and they had their children and of course at that time. But then, then they had to be have birth certificates. The children and my brothers and sisters and myself were all born here, and we've all got our birth certificates that we were born here, you know, but, you know, they didn't become citizens.
Line 20	Angela Luckey: So they came here for their jobs. Yes. Did your father talk about, doing his job? What kind of tools? He used?
Line 21	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, he was a section hand. And this man. See, and put spikes in. I remember that he put railroad in, and I guess they just kind of. Whatever section hands do. I remember that they add a little cart and he'd go to the tool house or whatever. We lived in the section house, and that place where the workers would meet wasn't too far from our house, and they had all meet there in the morning and go out on this little I.
Line 22	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I'm sure it had a name. Yes, but and then in the evening you'd come home. And I don't never remember that he really discussed what whatever section I to do, I guess I do. I don't really know. Okay.
Line 23	Angela Luckey: Did your mother, what did she do all day?
Line 24	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No. My mother just took care of us. And then in the summer, she would take us. I remember as kids growing up, and there was people around there that had, strawberry patches and raspberries and stuff, and. And to tell you the truth, I really don't know how with her why she when we, she used to take us to pick raspberries and then we'll just there wasn't big patches, but I remember unshared and my mother would get us to pick raspberries.
Line 25	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I remember that I forget so much for the lady of the people of the little patch of raspberries. And and so much was for us. And then my mother would. What can this fruit I remember? Somebody must have showed her. I don't remember that. But she used to put this fruit up whenever we would pick. And they gave her.
Line 26	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I know that she wasn't for wages. I don't remember that gave her any money. And it was just like food. She we would just pick the fruit or whatever. And then they would give her so much and then she'd take us home, whatever it was, and she would always tell us. So we had to learn how to work that.
Line 27	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: That's the way you go about, you know, maybe we complain, I don't know, maybe we go, what are we doing this work? But I remember she used to say that we were we'd like to play all summer when there wasn't any school, but she would put up, take some fixed, I guess, a bunch of tortillas or maybe whatever, and and take us to these places.
Line 28	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember there was this real nice lady. She was a sweet lady, Mrs. Cedarburg. And then they had, she had plums and apples and raspberries, strawberries. And we used to go over there and pick all the stuff, and we'd climb the trees for apples and plums and, and I remember we used to take some home. American. You know, my favorite share with or whatever, you know, whatever.
Line 29	Angela Luckey: Where was this.
Line 30	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: In Firth, in Firth. And. Mrs. CW, we were right across the river. I remember very well the snake River. Now I just wonder. I have never gone back, but my brother has gone back. And he says that how it seemed so far away when we were growing up. But he says now, and that it just right there, you know, now things don't seem that far away, you know, and the places that seem so big to us than are not really all that big, you know.
Line 31	Angela Luckey: So when your family came on them and gone, you, they came straight to Idaho.
Line 32	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah. Straight to Lincoln, Idaho, near Idaho Falls.
Line 33	Angela Luckey: What was it like in Idaho? I mean, can you describe your first memories?
Line 34	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. Well, there was mostly farming, like, say, Idaho Falls. They ... and all of that wasn't there. And then, first is only, I think 30 miles from Idaho Falls. It's not really a whole lot for schools. And that was where we'd go mostly was styrofoam and wheat. And then really, my mother and dad had friends in Idaho Falls and we'd go, like, whenever there was a circus or something in town, we'd go and stay with these friends.
Line 35	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And from there we would go like on the 4th of July. And that's what we're like closest. And then when we, when we really wanted to see a lot of Mexicans and that I remember we'd come here to Pocatello and we'd come on the train because, like, you worked on the railroad, he had a pass, and we could come here to Pocatello.
Line 36	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then that time there was a lot of Mexicans here in Pocatello. So you got to come to the railroad and then. And if we wanted to do that, like you say, socialize, I guess this is where we would come. And like when my father was sick in the hospital, they'd bring them here to the old General Hospital over there.
Line 37	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The you. So they used to rely on them actually, because he went to Mexico. But my mother never did go back. But my, my dad did even in 1926 to. And then by then the relatives lived in Torreon. So that's where he went and met, you know, some relatives in Babylon. But my mother never but always, remember somewhere, always that they would always talk about their country.
Line 38	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They never did reminisce over and over and over and, and I remember, like I say, when read TV and radio and all that stuff, and those kids never got bored with the stories that they would tell us. They repeated them over and over again. My mother was raised and had asked her. Her family was like her mother and dad.
Line 39	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They too, they were poor people, but they took care of the cabin for a rich man and they would take in the summer. They would take the cabins up to the mountains, I guess. I don't know where they took their cows, but my mother used to say about how they would climb up in the mountains and they would sit down, I guess some some kind of a high place they could see down in the distance, and I could kind of visualize because they in the distance, they could see the smoke of the trains that would go by far away.
Line 40	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And she would dream of someday getting a moment train and going away somewhere. And she did well, she could move, but she never she never did go back to Mexico, never to visit. And she always would talk about how Mexico and her and my dad, that's what they would talk about of Mexico. I guess that's the only thing to talk about them.
Line 41	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My daddy's work permit and but we have we did have company. People from Pocatello would visit us out there for the Mexicans that were in Shelley, too. There was at the sugar factory. They had a lot of little houses, and there was quite a few Mexican families that lived there to insure me. But see, my folks went straight to Lincoln, Idaho.
Line 42	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: That's where they had to. And there was a lot of Mexicans initially that lived there and worked in the fields and farms and there.
Line 43	Angela Luckey: Where there are a lot of other families that went to Lincoln with you.
Line 44	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, yes. Well, see, that's a that's trainload. And from there they dispersed and and there's we go over the many different places and like I say probably I don't know, I don't really remember I remember these Mexican families that lived in Chile. Now I can't tell you for sure if they were brought there like from Lincoln, you know, like they might have been brought there.
Line 45	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But Lincoln was where they brought them as a group, and then they might have brought them to Shelley to closer to the farms that were around them, so that I don't remember. I don't remember that, but I remember the Mexicans that lived in and that we used to go visit them, some in the farms around around Lincoln and around there that lived for but not not right there in the sugar factory.
Line 46	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We lived them in the farms.
Line 47	Angela Luckey: Did they have their own little land or.
Line 48	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, no, no, they didn't use the house, just that they just housed them. No, I didn't have no land. They might have land at a garden. Maybe we go to. Other than that. No, that made this work there for the farmers.
Line 49	Angela Luckey: So it was a land. The houses belonged to the farmer. Yeah. And then they just lived in there. When they were there.
Line 50	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They moved in and just lived there. And they worked for these farmers. And and I don't ever remember any mistreatment or anything. They just worked for the for the farmers. And they had interpreters. I always remember this one lady, Mrs. Pearce, her name was in Pablo. She was in Chile. She was the interpreter for the Mexicans around there.
Line 51	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Just to Mrs. Pearce, my mother talked about her man who had already I could be. I must have been 6 or 7 that I met this lady, Mrs. Pearce, and my mother. This was Mrs. Pearce, one that was the interpreter for the Mexican woman, and she spoke very well. So I guess that's why they. And she wouldn't wear the war end.
Line 52	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I tell you that they made so much commotion. You know, when the war ended in 1918, there was whistles and people making a lot of noise, and she went to to the Mexicans and told them, you know, you know what? They didn't know what was going on. And she explained to them, we're real happy now because our war has ended, and that's why we're all so happy.
Line 53	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My mother used to tell me that into Mrs. Pearce went and told the Mexican people what was going on at the end of the war, and after that, my mother used to say, see, some of them went back to Mexico, some of these Mexicans went back and others didn't go see, my mother didn't go back. And then after my dad out of jail on the railroad, well, then we figured that was a steady job.
Line 54	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Good. And, you know, we didn't have to worry. And then we just stayed there and birth. And that's where we were all born there and went to school there.
Line 55	Angela Luckey: You went to school there from first grade to the eighth grade?
Line 56	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. I remember my mother took me the first day by the hand to the first grade, and I just stayed there. And no, the people were nice to us. I don't, I can't complain about that. We were the only Mexican family. But like I say, we had company from Pocatello. They'd go, president, but they never mistreated us in any way.
Line 57	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My my dad did this job on the railroad, and that was it. And my mother never and no schooling. And we just went to school. And I can't say that they mistreated us. I remember when my little brother, when my little sister was born, how that I can't badmouth the LDS people. You know how they talk about them.
Line 58	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The ladies of the Relief Society are that. I do remember that when they went to our house. And how are you doing messing with them? Is there something we can do for it? Can we do can we do your laundry? I remember that and and they were very kind to us and to my mother who didn't speak English.
Line 59	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And every Christmas I remember they'd always bring us the things for Christmas. And they tell us so. And we were puzzled because it say, Santa Claus left this at our house, and we used to say, well, how come you never come here? Do you know you could very well have brought those presents here, but we would get presents from everywhere in the church.
Line 60	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We didn't socialize with them. But I'm not saying we were invited to other things. We were the only Mexican family. And maybe that's what they were doing, a good deed or whatever. But they they used to tease my dad is there. They'd go there to visit him and say, well, what are you doing this Sunday? Are you playing the drums in the Lutheran church or something?
Line 61	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You know, teasing them because I tell you that we that we joined all the churches, but we didn't. The Lutheran church was right across the street. And even now there's a mrs. Johnson. Sometimes I can see you. It's charge of them. And she was there from birth, and she was in church across the street from out. And on Sundays.
Line 62	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We used to like to hear because they had the windows open and they'd. I'd like to hear them sing. They sing a lot. But see, to go to church, we'd have to come to Blackfoot because there was no Catholic church in church, but there was LDS church. It was built in church. There was the Presbyterian Church, but not Catholic.
Line 63	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: It was in Blackfoot territory, I don't know, in Blackfoot and then in Idaho Falls Church. And the Catholic Church was we were made our first Holy Communion in Blackfoot and now in Maine. We were baptized and but I named and the priest that were there, he's there a long time. And we were friends to the Hernandez's who, you know, Marcella died in a do you know was Speranza Lacey.
Line 64	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So she belonged to that family. They were a large family. And they lived in Blackfoot, in the sugar factory. So sometimes we would even walk from Blackfoot to for two from the Blackfoot to go to church. And then we'd go on a little visit over there to the Hernandez's, and they would take us home and take us home.
Line 65	Angela Luckey: How did they take you?
Line 66	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They had a little car.
Line 67	Angela Luckey: What kind of car did they have?
Line 68	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Girls, I don't remember. It was a noisy car, but they would take us home and from Blackfoot. Different.
Line 69	Angela Luckey: So you walked almost everywhere. You had to go?
Line 70	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah. So we walked and we would walk to Shelley. That was six miles to Shelley. But if we went far then we could go on the train. And my dad had a fence, but it didn't seem like it was that far to us. I remember on Sundays my father would fix a lunch and my for my dad got an old 22, I'll never know.
Line 71	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But we'd go and when we wanted to go anywhere, we'd go down to the river. We went to the snake River. You know how it is along the snake River, with those two little boys that got murdered there. And for the dog when I seen him on TV, it all brought memories to me because we would go down the road places, on the river there at first.
Line 72	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then there was, what did they call railroads that are off to the side? And like a branch or something off of the main drag there was. And then maybe the train would go back in there to get the sugar beets and that we'd go for walks way back in there. And do you know why we don't just go on walking on the railroad tracks way down too close to the hills to put.
Line 73	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: There's the two press stones, and then there's they stop and go, you know, to the little places where they would take the.
Line 74	Angela Luckey: And what time was the mat Marsh?
Line 75	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I can't really remember. It must have been maybe ten, 11 or mean.
Line 76	Angela Luckey: So your mom would pack a lunch.
Line 77	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And we'd start out walking. You'd want.
Line 78	Angela Luckey: How long would it take?
Line 79	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, gosh. I don't know how long, how long it would take. And then there was a family that left, there was any. I don't remember their last name. There were Catholics, their infants. And sometimes they would pick us up and give us a ride.
Line 80	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: To ministry. I can't remember the name of that Catholic family. Right of him.
Line 81	Angela Luckey: So your mom would pack a lunch in the morning and you'd walk to church? Yeah. Go to church. And then after church, what would you do? Have a picnic or.
Line 82	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, imagine. So we must have we maybe we ate on the side of the road. Who knows?
Line 83	Angela Luckey: You don't remember?
Line 84	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, I don't remember. But then we would go to the Hernandez's home and then and then then they would give us a ride home. And I do remember. And their names were, Nicole Hernandez, and his wife was Rosalie Fernandez. They were the mother and father to these Hernandez's, you know, Marcel and Brenda Lacey next. That's a big family.
Line 85	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: There were about 15 in that family. Yeah, that's a very large family. They were from like 20, 20 year Tommy. And sometimes you see them like, there's a few more like you when Manuel Hernandez. They're not related to that. Manuel. Remember, for nine. But their last name was Hernandez too. And it was a different family around on the ship.
Line 86	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And quite a few of them come over here. Feel now. Oh, man. No it wasn't many. Go to.
Line 87	Angela Luckey: Henderson now. When, when you went to school, you said that you were the only Mexican kids there. Yes. What? How many of you. Who was the oldest one or how? You know.
Line 88	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My oldest one. We were five. I was the oldest. And I have a sister, Rosie. And my brother lives over in Washington. Alberto and my brother Frank and my sister Gary. And we were five, and I went to the eighth grade there in first and the rest of life. And then when we moved here to focus on my brothers went here to Montreal school.
Line 89	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But mom was too, I didn't, I just went to the eighth grade. And in those days it was, it was so different than it is now. And it was such a you couldn't go to school with the closure had. You know what I mean? Where you just didn't fit in. And you, you if you had any sense.
Line 90	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, I definitely think, you know, you were embarrassed because you couldn't compete with the, you know, your clothes just didn't fit with what you had. Like.
Line 91	Angela Luckey: What did you wear?
Line 92	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I guess we were dressed, but what I mean is, you felt that you had to be better dressed. And I know I didn't want to go to school and, you know, with the clothes that I had, they, well, you know, better dress and stuff. And then you were real conscious, that you were dressed. Now, now the kids in these past years, I think that they laid out their Levi's and and squirted that Clorox on my.
Line 93	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You wouldn't be caught dead with a pair of pants like that. Now, in those days, anyway. And it was depression time. And still you felt that you needed to be, you know, better dressed as you got older, I imagine, because I remember, I remember like, say, Tony Rogers and his sister, only the best dressed Mexican kids in town.
Line 94	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And, they were always well-dressed. So. So you are. You were real. Come on. Just how you were dressed to go to school.
Line 95	Angela Luckey: Did your mother sew or or where did you get your clothes?
Line 96	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: When we imagine. No, we thought they bottom. It was a little. There was a store there and for it dies merchandise. Red ribbon is what I see. The little country stores where they. Everything is in there, you know, everything. Shoes, stockings, dresses. Groceries, everything was in that store. And I remember that my dad got paid. What?
Line 97	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We were paid that we, you know, we'd go there and buy clothes and shoes and stuff, you know, but of course, you know, imagine that they did. They had to, you know, watch and see what they bought. And five pairs of shoes. I remember when we were going to go out of town, when we was going to go in the summertime to the 4th of July in Idaho Falls.
Line 98	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My dad would take us out and buy us all the same damn pair of shoes. He'd been all getting brand new shoes and you had to take care of of my mind. And we just warm up and take care of them during the summer months. Like, I have no idea, really. You know how how that went. But, you know, we all got brand new shoes, and we were going to go out of town.
Line 99	Angela Luckey: Did you wear your shoes every day?
Line 100	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, guess with Mr. White or old words, I suppose, to help me. We were wearing shoes, but I don't remember. Just. I really can't remember. To tell you the truth, I even wonder right now. We made that. But no, I remember... And we got everything at this or going to do or whatever. And daddy, we can and it we just do start daddy store and main store there in front of us to store.
Line 101	Angela Luckey: Did he, provide credit whenever you needed?
Line 102	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. Yeah. We had credit there. It died. And I remember my mother go and get things that she needed. We could do stuff and clothes and we can get clothes and. Yeah. To credit. Yeah. Those credit.
Line 103	Angela Luckey: How did they work that? Did he have an, notebook or something?
Line 104	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, no, I don't remember that. It did. It must have been just groceries. Where to give it to you, I don't remember. I don't remember that he did. No, I don't remember. He did. They both my mother and dad could both write like the one thing that I remember very well. I remember my mother and dad both writing letters to their families in Mexico, write letters.
Line 105	Angela Luckey: So they were educated in Mexico.
Line 106	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, yeah. I don't think they they might have learned to read write because they could both read and write. But I don't think that they had any education or anything. I always tell my kids, I said, well, your grandma and grandpa were really nice people. They didn't have no college education. To be nice with me because they were they were they were real nice.
Line 107	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They were real nice people. They were really nice people, both of them. When they died, I really can tell Angela they had their funerals were so big. I mean, maybe they, from. So that's one thing I always remember that you think they won't even remember the good deeds they did and all that. Know when my my father died first to me.
Line 108	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember you know, so many people come to his funeral. And when my mother died, a lot of people were there. Lots of people were both, in my opinion, because they were nice. They were good human beings. And like I say, they weren't highly educated. They just went to school and and never learned to read and write. But and we just nice people.
Line 109	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta:
Line 110	Angela Luckey: So did you have any problems with, language in school? I mean, you said your parents spoke Spanish. The you being Spanish.
Line 111	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Then our learning.
Line 112	Angela Luckey: In in school, was it hard for you?
Line 113	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I don't remember. Just come I learned English. Imagine that. Come easy to me. I remember that I didn't have any problems. No, I just went right through school till I went to the eighth grade, so, you know, and I wasn't any. I was the big of the kids that were in my room. So I figure that I must have just gone through this must I must have cut, right away.
Line 114	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I don't remember that I had any problems in school. No. And I love school. I really know school, and I know and I think now myself, thinking how much I liked school at the time was like it is now, of all the things that they can do for people and you know, and minorities, I see in my mind, I don't think I even got married.
Line 115	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I just went running right around the school, you know, that's how much I love. That's how much I love school. I really did I really did love school.
Line 116	Angela Luckey: Did you play with, English speaking kids when you were little?
Line 117	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Other kids.
Line 118	Angela Luckey: So you probably learned English then while you, before you went to school.
Line 119	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: With the kids that were around. Because. No, like I say, in those days, you just everybody then, you know, you you weren't invited or anything. I do remember we went to ask to go do anything. You just. We were used there. And then see the the foreman of the railroad of the of the section. He lived close by.
Line 120	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Mr. ball can't remember his name. And he had a daughter. She got my divorce. I don't remember that. He had a wife. She must have died. You know, I don't remember that Mr. McKee was the foreman. And his daughter Katie lived with him, and. And she had a daughter that was my age. So she would play with that.
Line 121	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She was nice. Jean. Her name was Jean, and she would play with us. But other than that, I don't remember. We just made our own fun and then we just played together, I guess, because I don't remember them sociological thing, but very.
Line 122	Angela Luckey: Do you can you tell me, describe a typical day then in your family? What time did you get up and. Yeah.
Line 123	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I mean, I just got up, my dad left for work, and we'd get up and go to school.
Line 124	Angela Luckey: Did your mom get up? Any earlier than everybody to make.
Line 125	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Sure she must have. She must go. And I don't remember, you know, in my mind and especially any special thing, you know, she must've just got up on time because she was a good mother in life. So she used to go up. And as we got older, well, to normal, they'd get up. Each had their own thing to do and like two women, the housework type, that they meant nothing.
Line 126	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You know, we didn't just we just worked in the fields and that we never had any outside jobs to say, per se. You know, my sister. No, not most of the younger sisters. We after we moved here to Pocatello, she grew up. She worked in the laundry at Troy, Parisian laundry. She worked for a long time.
Line 127	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then she. And that's when the war started. And then they brought soldiers here at this airbase. It wasn't there. But that's where she met her husband, Dan. So their names. It was an army. Army from Texas.
Line 128	Angela Luckey: So was just your same family that lived in the house? Well, you didn't have any answer, uncle.
Line 129	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, no we didn't. We always would think about it, though. We did like to have a have a man or an uncle, grandparents or something. No, it was no. And many, many relatives in. So it was just us. We didn't.
Line 130	Angela Luckey: You said that you sometimes worked in the fields with your parents.
Line 131	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, yeah. So we as we grew up. Yes. And we grew up working there. And the beets and then the potato and then.
Line 132	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Beets hoeing and tending and stuff like that. So, see, after my father was laid off during the depression from the railroad club, and then we were old enough to to be able to work in the fields.
Line 133	Angela Luckey: What did your dad, then you said he went to work on the railroad. Or was he, like, working in the summer in the fields and then in the winter in the railroad? Or did he just quit the fields and go to the room?
Line 134	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Do you know, after he got laid off from grandma, that's when we went to the fields. When when we when he first come, they worked in the field. Then when you got the job on the railroad, then there was no more fields. But then it was new to us, to them about working in the fields. Because then after he got laid off from the railroad, then they were old enough to go to work in the beet.
Line 135	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Why do you. That's it was depression time and there wasn't any other work. And then when we come back, when we come here to Pocatello, that I tell you, these friends, we kept telling us, what are you doing out here on this farm? Things can be better for you in Pocatello. And they kept after saying, go visit us and leave this place.
Line 136	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: What have you got here in the especially in the wintertime, there was nothing, you know, and, so, maybe a little bit of job here and there, but there was that nothing standing. So then that's when we moved here to Pocatello. Was depression down? And then then they were giving, there was a job at the WPA and stuff, you know, and so it was it was better, you know, it was better.
Line 137	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We didn't I can't remember where the first little house that we lived in, but anyway. And then they would give, they would give the people and I mean, we weren't the only ones. It was depression. The lines were so long they'd give you a maybe you little sack of flour or a package of, grapefruits and oatmeal and plum milk.
Line 138	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The powdered milk. I remember my mother making big pots of cocoa and making biscuits and things, and, you know, life was a lot better here in Pocatello. And then still, you could work on a farm. So farms were right out here, tiny and stuff like that, you know? But the life was better here, Pocatello, than we have to that.
Line 139	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, then my dad got work again on the railroad, and he would take care of those little parks that are over there by the depot, and that he would go water and the lines and stuff like that. And from there he and I guess he must have retired, I guess, because I remember that it didn't work anymore. But he took care of the little parks right there.
Line 140	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So see the beginning he was back with the Union Pacific.
Line 141	Angela Luckey: How did then you came to Pocatello in about when? 19...
Line 142	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I was, I was 14 years old. I remember very well. Yeah, we we rented a little house. The Morello's lived kitty corner from us, and it was very. And I was his mother and dad, and they were really nice people. My father and my grandmother. My mother, you know, Francis and her older sister, they were very nice people.
Line 143	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And they were always I remember they were always bringing me nice little things, you know, because, well, they knew what was going on. It was depression time. And he worked on the railroad there in the roundhouse or whatever. And their dad made ten houses, and then so the people that had jobs at that time, they knew, you know, the things were hard for the people to do kind of jobs.
Line 144	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then they were really nice, generous people, really nice people. And behind us lived, my companion, Manuel Sierra's mom. And so she was only married to him for the... They lived behind us. So there by the colored room. No, that's not there anymore. It was a colored church home there, across the street from Idaho's.
Line 145	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Mom know Idaho person. I knew Idaho first when she was a little girl and she always loved Mexican food. I remember she'd go across the street over to the canyon, and I was trying to remember those people's names. She'd go there in the leaves. I don't believe that. Her name. I understand Richard Jones. It was Idaho. She moved here that maybe my 30 years.
Line 146	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then what she did that Mexican immigrant talk from Chico. Real happy Idaho. So she she acquired the taste of Mexican food from way back. She laughs and remembers, you know, she only does like, Mexican food.
Line 147	Angela Luckey: Speaking of Mexican food, how was it when you were trying to cook Mexican food for your mother, for instance? Who really knew? Did she have trouble finding all the ingredients? Oh, well, you.
Line 148	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Know, I really can't tell you. I don't I don't remember, you know what I mean? They weren't. She had any. Yeah, she must have. She must have bought like her spices and that like say in Blackfoot. Must have been married because she couldn't have got them in first in the grocery stores or were there. So she must have and she they would talk to each other, say that, you know, she could visit with the ladies in these places and they would tell her, you know, about things.
Line 149	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So she must do not like the spices and things in those places like Blackfoot. But this woman, I don't really remember once was here, like in Pocatello. Like I told her, there was a lot of Mexican people at that time, and that time they gradually that there was dances and, and a lot of dunes, and they had big night forts over there.
Line 150	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: There was a big boarding house where, upstairs and dances every weekend. And then a couple of blocks down there was my gate building. You'd have to climb down. There was another place where the Mexicans would have dances every Saturday night. And and I remember they had the they had a good time, I remember that, but it was it was like time and there was a lot of Mexicans and they whooped and I had a good time.
Line 151	Angela Luckey: Did you go to the dances?
Line 152	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, yeah. We used to go to the dance.
Line 153	Angela Luckey: Who played or what kind of music?
Line 154	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I mean, I'm they had guitars and Feldman Stovall, Domingo. Yes, I was it just died here because I remember him. So where we were, he played the violin and, there was a little group of men that, Fidel played the mandolin. And, and they had guitars and stuff, and they'd play through the dances, and I.
Line 155	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They didn't show up for the dance. Everybody was restless, you know, they they managed in and again, they would take their kids and they'd go to sleep and they put them under the benches and stuff like, there, you know, and then there was fights on Saturday nights and it come rolling down the stairs. And if was there wasn't a fly to the dance.
Line 156	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, it wasn't a good dance that Saturday night and there had to be some kind of disagreement or something like, but it was all in fun. They went and, you know, never anything real dangerous. I remember it just happened in good time.
Line 157	Angela Luckey: That kind of dances. Did you do?
Line 158	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, not me, but they used to, just regular night. There was a couple of ladies that would do the dance and and the dances, and I remember that they'd be real happy when they did. That was my grandma didn't marry. She did. Do you get dance to it? And do you know Joe Ortega? Well, it was his mother.
Line 159	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She was a very nice.
Line 160	Angela Luckey: Lady to my two year old. I mean.
Line 161	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She married Vida Martin. Run, Mary. Santa Monica. She was a nice lady, and she loved to sing. And Rosalia and more or less. And then Leonard, sister Leonard started out. You know. Oh, that's his sister. That's right. Yeah. You know Josephine, she lives in there, right across the street from your brother Leonard, you know, and you to go to church on time.
Line 162	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And that was her sister, Josephine. Josephine. And their mother was going and going community. And all that time, they were pretty ladies. Come in. So real pretty.
Line 163	Unknown: Woman. She managed to dance.
Line 164	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember we dress so pretty. She would do the fancy dances, you know.
Line 165	Unknown: Like, it's pretty neat.
Line 166	Angela Luckey: Did you do the jitterbug or did you do Mexican dances or. No.
Line 167	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Not me. No, it was afterwards. I just I don't remember that there was any special kind of a dance. Any time. Just really. What was that? Well, see, I guess some folks dress up just. I think just plain dancing. You get.
Line 168	Angela Luckey: So how did how did you meet your husband?
Line 169	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, every summer we lived here in Folk Town, but every summer there was. They planted a lot of, peas for, in the, in the Teton.
Line 170	Angela Luckey: Basin.
Line 171	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: In Griggs. They would plant a lot of peas and a lot of Mexicans from all around me come from Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. Utah did. And these peas were fresh peas for marketing. So they had big sheds and everything. And they hired Mexicans for everything. There was big company, of course, the contractors were Mexican. They were they were white guys.
Line 172	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember their flagship cars, but they had Mexicans that were like Foreman's and the lead man. But to us it was more like a fun job. And Rudy and I were reminiscing about that today. We talked and we never made any money, but we had a lot of fun because as you went to, you pick your hampers like that, then you'd go and weigh a man and they paid you each time.
Line 173	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You each time you took your hamper the way they pay you. So and then there was trucks that had candy, ice cream, whatever, so you could go with the kids and all of that, but they'd just get their money and go right and spend it right then. But it was a fun job and know that, like I said, and we all kind of knew each other, you know, we'd meet every summer without religion, and it was only about, say, a month or two or something like that.
Line 174	Angela Luckey: How old were you about this time?
Line 175	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, how about 18, 19 and 20? Because I was 21 when I got married and my kid come from Nebraska there, there was people over there that heard about this here, a big and supposedly and that they'd which they didn't make any money. I don't, don't think anybody made any money, but it was kind of a summer job, you know, if you didn't have anything else to do and say, like, see where Mike was from, like Scottsbluff.
Line 176	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then there, that's another valley. And and those are all summer jobs to vending.
Line 177	Angela Luckey: And allowing.
Line 178	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Them potatoes and meat. It's like here.
Line 179	Angela Luckey: But it's a very.
Line 180	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: North Platte Valley it's an old plant. Marianna Scottsbluff. And you know, those little towns your whole family becomes. So I guess this here goes Chuck Martinez. He was going to come and he ask anybody if they want to come down over to work. And Griggs, you know, took a piece. And Mike well, I guess his parents were pretty strict.
Line 181	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: His dad was with me that well, it was a good time to get out of here. So he signed up and he came here to Driggs to pick these two. And that's where we met him. And then we would do each other just that summer. And then we decided to get married. And I guess that's what it was.
Line 182	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So I figured maybe 21, I was getting too old. I better hurry up and get married. Maybe I won't get another offer. So go ahead. So. And I was the oldest of our family. Didn't know he was nice.
Line 183	Angela Luckey: He's nice.
Line 184	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And he was a churchgoing person and and supposedly he didn't drink, which he did a little later on. But at that time he did them. And then we went to live in Nebraska, and they were very nice people, very nice. Mike's family, as a matter of fact, his older sister just called in this morning. Her son in law works for the like Idaho Power sort the company and he'll be.
Line 185	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yesterday was his last day and he's retiring and he was just telling us that they're very nice people and there's a lot of Mexicans over there, and not to Mexicans. And I liked it because it was so many Mexicans. And they're all kind of related. So if they have some dough and I tell you it is, and there's so many of their family in it, you know, they're kissin cousins.
Line 186	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I guess you might say, my girls, I would love to go down there because it's, so nice and friendly and they have so much food and staff. They're, they're very nice people. And so I liked it.
Line 187	Angela Luckey: And tell me about your wedding. What? It. Tell me where I go.
Line 188	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Was a really nice wedding. It was in the Catholic church. There. The like I say, they're all so nice. It was a real Mexican wedding, you know, we all pitched in and made a nice wedding, but I was there alone. My parents didn't go to here in Boca Down. And at the time, I guess maybe. Well, I don't know.
Line 189	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They they just met nobody. Nobody moved from you.
Line 190	Angela Luckey: You got married in Nebraska.
Line 191	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. I was married in the Catholic Church in Scottsbluff. But, don't I tell you that my dad, when I was married here would say stable, you know, you know, the courthouse doctor George Hinckley married my dad, his mother and his sister, the one that's a man now. And it's a picture that she just she just had her golden jubilee.
Line 192	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And you take your picture, you up?
Line 193	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: It's a sister. She just had her Jubilee here. Just a you just hear this last year. Can you believe. They're in Scottsbluff and, her she came when her mother came and my dad said, well, you're not leaving. You're not leaving here with my daughter. I better know she's married. So that's how come we got married here to the, you know, judge.
Line 194	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then that's how come I went with them home with my mother. Abuses against. And we got married in the church here in Scottsbluff. It was a Mexican wedding. All the relatives and everything. It was nice. It was in the farm in September, so there was a lot of flowers. We didn't have any flowers from the florist, but we had flowers from my guess, all the gardens in the valley.
Line 195	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So many flowers. I remember there was so many dahlias and they were so pretty well there. That valley is, you know, it's really nice. Everything grows so good because they have cold winters, but they have real hot summers. It can be at 9:00 in the morning. It can already be 90 to 100 degrees. It's that hot. But in the winter, the winters are cold and all that.
Line 196	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The winds come from Montana, not the way the Dakotas and stuff. So it just whistles down. But in the summers it's hard to make and grow. Beautiful gardens and beautiful flowers and everybody's got a garden. So there was just two rows of flowers now and then. Mexican dance and musicians. Thank you. And next to years for this nice.
Line 197	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then in the fall then like it was in the fall right away. Mike went to work in the fields at that time and he was 19 and I was 21. And I'm like, I see his family were all very nice.
Line 198	Angela Luckey: People, very nice. Can you describe what you wore?
Line 199	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, it was just, making wedding dress it, it and was the dress that his cousin had for her wedding. She had just got recently married and and she said, well, my dress is real pretty and nice and it'll fit you so you can wear my dress. And you're like.
Line 200	Angela Luckey: What was it made out of?
Line 201	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I really can't tell. It was just a regular wedding dress. It.
Line 202	Angela Luckey: Was it satin? No.
Line 203	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, not satin.
Line 204	Unknown: It was couple of camera.
Line 205	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Kind of fitted, maybe with lace, people. A lot of lace.
Line 206	Angela Luckey: And then. Did you have a long, long.
Line 207	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No.
Line 208	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: It's just a short, little short man. Extremely short. And it was his cousin then got married recently. We see we got married in September and she might have gotten married like in July.
Line 209	Angela Luckey: Actually, July 1972. And your bouquet that you carry, you just said the cut flowers.
Line 210	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Cut flowers. There's like I say, there's a lot of food for flowers from the gardens. As in his sister. As a matter of fact, I think Sister Veronica fixed to the front. And they are real. His sisters are really, really into doing things like that where they entertain a lot with each other because the real were artistic. You could say anything they do.
Line 211	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They put together quick and pretty and nice. I mean, it now seemed to me I wouldn't even know where to start, but no, they beings, I guess that they're all together and always doing something. They're they're real artistic. All of his sisters and his and his family are real artistic people.
Line 212	Angela Luckey: And then you had a dance? Yes.
Line 213	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: It was. And then.
Line 214	Angela Luckey: Did you have a dinner for everybody? Okay.
Line 215	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: This isn't this is a new reclamation dinner, I guess. Enchiladas and molino rice and a little bit I remember. And the ladies are all chattering and, you know, it was just a just a nice get together, I guess. But I remember it was really nice, man.
Line 216	Angela Luckey: How did you get from your house to the church?
Line 217	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Their cars. Yes. They had cars. They did great. Like I tell you, they're all real and like they had do so much of that stuff over there. See, they're always having baptism and the weddings and things like that. They're always doing.
Line 218	Angela Luckey: Some do they do parties for those things?
Line 219	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh yes. All of those things. Yes. Like, you know, Vicky and Johnny, don't you know? You know, Vicki is the curator. I've seen them give you a home. Johnny. And with them, like they got married for Valentine's Day. I remember all the all the Valentines stuff and things like that. Did you just do things? Always do things like that.
Line 220	Angela Luckey: So what are the as a as a girl before you got married, as a teenager, what did you do for fun?
Line 221	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, we already lived here in Pocatello. I remember visiting with friends. I don't remember that. And then see, like I told her, it was depression time. There was there was a it was called the NYP for young people. It could work. And I remember I worked at that thing. It was sewing to do something, and that's what I do now.
Line 222	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember I knew there was a place for all the young people that did my work and man could get. I think you get $17 a month with just a little thing, but it was you could go on you so by hand. I remember sewing by hand. So maybe baby blankets and things like that. And then they had everything there, you know, it was just to keep the young people busy at that time, you know, keep them out of mischief.
Line 223	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But no, there wasn't you didn't have any money, so you didn't have too much to get mischief with.
Line 224	Angela Luckey: You didn't go to the show or.
Line 225	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh yes. Yes, there was, there was right here. There was the Rialto and they charge $0.25 a ticket. And on Tuesdays, two for two for 25. I could get in. And I loved the movies. I remember I'd go at 1:00 in the afternoon, I'd stay, I'd stay, and I'd seen the show twice that. That would take the whole afternoon.
Line 226	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But no, the I guess that's about it for entertainment.
Line 227	Angela Luckey: Did you get to sit in the main floor?
Line 228	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, they would separate, but I don't remember. I remember that we would sit wherever we wanted to. I mostly separated the colored people because I really can't. I can't remember that they would separate us. But I think it was a committee that set up Malcolm and it was a national team. It was like a leader. And the manager was Mr. Grossman.
Line 229	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: He was the one that only place in those apartments. And right over here by the ironing studios where he is. And I mean, and at that time, I mean, they really good for the way, you know, and he was the owner. No, I really can't say that. Tell to the truth. I can't remember that we had to sit in the same place that I know that they talked about it.
Line 230	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I think that it was the colored people and they couldn't sit down on the main floor. They have to go to town.
Line 231	Angela Luckey: How about the Indians?
Line 232	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Oh, I don't I don't really remember that. I don't really remember if they were separated or not. Don't I don't remember that. But I remember that they did separate. Another thing, there was a lot of that time. I do remember that you couldn't just go and sit anywhere, and I couldn't find some things like that, you know, you didn't go in and that I do remember.
Line 233	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then Mexicans too, could be Mexicans and coloreds and that you just couldn't see it just anywhere. And they, they just would wait on you if you'd go into a place that they didn't, you could sit there all afternoon. You just don't. So you're not going to do that if you know you're not one to go sit there.
Line 234	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You could never leave.
Line 235	Angela Luckey: Or do you mean they wouldn't serve you in some of the fountains?
Line 236	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah. That's true. Wouldn't serve you. No, no. And I know what you remember. I think it was Joseph's that you ran into place, and he said, I was it. I wasn't too happy because they wouldn't wait on us. But we're interested. We don't serve you boys. You go up the street. There's a place he's been. Well, the only thing that that I want.
Line 237	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You call this boys. Hello? Okay. That's all right, Jack. Good as a compliment. You left this. We don't serve you boys. You have to go and wait on you. There. You don't serve you boys. So there was places where you could. You went Serbian at that time, there was a lot of prejudice there will always be prejudice. Always.
Line 238	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But. Oh, no, but it's nothing. I really think that things changed after World War Two. And just when I think that it changes in my mind. Mostly I think it was after World War two. Everything's changed. Life changed a lot before that. So I really think it was a lot of race prejudiced. It was too much. And you, you know, even today there's race prejudice too.
Line 239	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And that's something you can't change. Even if the president says you like your neighbor, no matter what color he is, that don't matter. If you got prejudice in your heart, you're not gonna. The thing that's so sad is that if you tell your kids about prejudice today, I'll never forget. One day I went to the store that was on.
Line 240	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: He comes down the street, this little white boy and this little colored girl, and he had his arm around her. And that looked that see their children to him, that his friend. And he can't see any difference. She's probably just like him. She probably. And they were walking to school just as happy as could be then to children, I guess they're all the same.
Line 241	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But when they're growing up, they start understanding prejudice. You know that. Don't play with those kids because they're not like you. Them things like that. Even I remember when we moved to this house, there was a family that lived in that house over there. And Cecilia, well, Gregory was a month old, and I remember Cecilia's 2 or 3 year old, the man she'd go out and play and I tell her story.
Line 242	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Imagine with this one there, I looked out my back and I've seen her over in that yard, and I've seen the woman telling her to leave and she didn't want to over no yard. And she had a little girl and, you know, and it really hurt when you see a thing like that, you know. But she just she and told her just, you know, to come and go.
Line 243	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But as the time go that we've, we've lived in this house for 30 some years. Gregory was a year old. We moved at this house, but we've lived here. Good grief, I don't know. I'm not up for... 32, 33 years and see the people all changed and stuff, you know, they were just renting so that. But no, we I am not I'm single.
Line 244	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Complained about my neighbors and and when we moved across town, the lady of my neighbors, the, when you judge people for what they are, you know, they you'll find they're just like you. Just maybe their skin is a different color, but they're just just like you. I'm not in any race. No matter what color you are. There's good people and there's bad people, you know?
Line 245	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And if you have prejudice in your own heart, you know, you just can't help it.
Line 246	Angela Luckey: When I first came to Pocatello, I was invited to have enchiladas, and I went and they made them out of flour tortillas. I was so disappointed because where I come from, these corn tortillas, in down in El Paso, were right by the border in. And I always thought when I came up here, I always thought that people didn't really know Mexican food.
Line 247	Angela Luckey: And then there was a lady that told me that when the first Mexicans came, they didn't have the corn, so they couldn't make the corn tortillas to make them. So they adapted the flour tortillas. Can you tell me a little bit about that?
Line 248	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, my mother had a metate, so my mother would cook her corn and she would, And I have. Yes. And we love to sit when we were little to see my mother, she would grind the corn and she would make the tortillas. And we thought it was so interesting to see my mother, you know, look into it and leave it with him.
Line 249	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She'd make gorditas, you know, and open them up and put. Well, no, don't tell you the truth. We didn't have don't remember. We had butter, but she had lard and she just and they were so good. But we like to see my mother grind the corn and then make the picture here. But no, I don't remember. Tell you the truth, I don't remember my mother making tortillas.
Line 250	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I guess, for some reason she had corn and she'd cook her. Can't call none until they put it into the... Lime? And she would cook a corn and chip, make the and make the tortillas... And now see my girls, they don't like corn tortillas. They they rather have a flour...
Line 251	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They're a little difficult to eat out. And so you do have to have flour tortillas. They don't like corn. But we were raised on corn tortillas. And my mother, she had her meat that did for years. And you are still it. I had my mother's milk. I had the sheep. But I can tell them this is, my era.
Line 252	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She's got. I've got my gave them... But she had a matete. And after I went, she didn't know she had a for a long time. And then, you know, Isabel, Sam Sanchez's wife, had to tell her mother. Did you did you? To get to know the mother.
Line 253	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Okay. And she made cheese like this. They had cows, I guess, and she'd make she cheese, you know? And and I guess they they do with the method. They would. They refine them after they made cheese to make it a fine grain, I suppose, because I remember my mother. Well, you know. Well, that old and yellow was to me meant that were really loathsome.
Line 254	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And she gave her method to do the, you know, so what you have to do and I don't know, I've have no reason to live on the farm. I have to they moved into town, made my house right over here by the what used to be the Frazier's.
Line 255	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then my mom and dad lived there. Yeah. Comes whatever happened to my mom to the that they'll never know. But I do have our milk. I think it's it's deep and it's. You can't get those. Most of them are kind of like this, but my mother's that was a deep. Okay, so my grinds, garlic and caminos and all of that has spices in, in them.
Line 256	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Okay. So that my mother. That's true. That was my mother's. And then nowadays my kids now are more and and they're like, it's been used for years and years. Well, you know, it's smooth and it's smooth.
Line 257	Angela Luckey: Did you eat any special foods like during Lent or Christmas? Special things.
Line 258	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I remember so well, but my mother made the best tamales. You shoot, I don't. And you know who learned? I guess I thought my mother was going to live forever. I never learned to make tamales like my mother. And the one that learned was Rita's mother, Frances. Frances made very good tamales. And she would always say, well, I learned from your mother, but I just thought my mother was going to live forever.
Line 259	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I never learned to bake. But for Christmas, my my mother used to make tamales. And anybody, everybody is welcome. I guess it was like the basket or the fish and bread and I don't know, and and no one would. And she was always so happy when her friends was around her and, and, and eat and, and staff and she'd make oodles and those to me bring back she made little the noodles of tamales for anybody and but and but coffee and everybody's welcome and our house was full of people tamales and my dad used to like to never need him and his friends or they were.
Line 260	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The men were at one thing and the ladies were, but everybody was happy and everybody was chattering. And that was at Christmas time. It was Christmas. And I remember that, I don't know if you know, when. Do you know this lady lives over there? Christmas called. So they would like over here. It's crippled. Maria I she's a real good friend.
Line 261	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, her mother's doing an activity there. She's. When I remember that they'd always say that for New Year's. She made a Nancy. I never did go. I don't know, but I used to hear that she made a lot of tamales around. I know there's Christmas. Yeah, in God's basement, too. Like my mother, you know, and everybody welcome. And everybody would go to the movies.
Line 262	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And that she made good tamales. Now I don't I never did eat them, but everybody was. But to me my mother made and Frances she Frances could whip up an enchilada and to Molly's and my girls would say, mom, how come you don't do my cart train? I was sorry about that. I have to do it 2 or 3 weeks in advance.
Line 263	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Know when Aurora worked here at the bank? Every year that hit like a potluck, you know, they tell everyone. Be sure to tell your mother she's going to make enchiladas or whatever. But that day. But that was weeks in advance. I had to have them at noon. When then she'd come from work in a hurry and pick them up.
Line 264	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: So that was an all day job. I'd make the tortillas one then. And then I had a by noon on the day that she needed them. And I had to do. No, I'm not like you're friends. See our friends. She could whip up $15 to Molly's overnight. I'm not making. And no, Frances was a good like cooking she.
Line 265	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But the tamales you. Well, I learned from your mom. I had a little something about that I. I knew what I don't know, and and I still I don't know how to make tamales. My kid goes to Nebraska and they make a lot of tamales, all of that. So he's the one that makes tamales. You just for the family here?
Line 266	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Sometimes it turned out all right and. Well, how did it when I was there, one more thing or another, they could have been better food. Everybody. But he was a little bit. No, not me. I do make enchiladas like Raymond. I said Raymond. I told him he would have lunch, I would like Super Bowl and stuff like that.
Line 267	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Mom, would you make peace of mind? You won't allow it. And again, 2 or 3 weeks in advance so that I can have his enchiladas were you'd come and pick them up to take these and see if it's from the beans and rice, and they would you can like have the pans already taken right. No, I wasn't much for your team.
Line 268	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My girls like when they were home, they and they were fast and they learned how to cook Mexican and go to whatever they they were really good at pudding. They were good.
Line 269	Angela Luckey: No good. Did, how about during lent? Do you have any special things in that?
Line 270	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No. I remember my mother used to make a bit of flour. Now, see, I don't do all of those things. My mother wouldn't make up, you know? I mean, they haven't come out on now, see all of those things. And my mother used to make and my mother used to make. But now she I never I never learned to do them and that never, and I never I never acquired the taste of it.
Line 271	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: There has to become one. You didn't make some. As a matter of fact, I got a package. What I don't do are the shrimp and things, you know, like they do is they come out a little bit. But then I got my own one. And I love that, you know, got rid of that. My mother made a good container that when it was first place I could with them or someplace.
Line 272	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I think it was when we went to visit Virginia in Los Angeles. She was one of the guys that her work lived in downtown Los Angeles. And his wife or his mother in law, somebody had made some cake and then some new work, and she had it in there, and it was really good. I think it's very good, you know, but but, I just I just don't make it good.
Line 273	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But my mother did.
Line 274	Angela Luckey: Did you ever hear of cocoles (sp?)?
Line 275	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Isn't that right? Can't. I've heard of it, but, how do they fix it? No, I don't stewed corn.
Line 276	Angela Luckey: They just do it with milk and sugar.
Line 277	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: What was that? Right? Oh, no. She, never eat that. But they make it like, look at my oatmeal and. What?
Line 278	Angela Luckey: Yeah, it's like a cereal. It's like the stewed corn you get in the cans. Except it's a lot tastier. My grandmother always made that. And then during lent, a couple of that. And, when you say that and then there's and the and the camera on camera and stuff for lent during,
Line 279	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But I never heard of that. The first one you said cocoles (sp?). No, I never heard of that. And no, I've never heard that. Even in Nebraska. I remember my cows, a lot of relatives. Well, one summer we had two of my cousins that stayed here. One summer they lived in Torreon and they stayed with us through the summer.
Line 280	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then I can take them. They had relatives in Juarez, so we just didn't we didn't want us in the country. There they were from school that. I think that's when Mike went to pick them up for the ones and and that's where we took him back. Marie Chew and Conchita and their sister Josephine, she she came to, but she was living with Vicki.
Line 281	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Because kids were little Mickey right there. Yeah. She worked in the courthouse. So she came and she took all the children, which was Ronnie, Kelly, Johnny and Vince. You know, even Bernie, I guess she had all her five kids in the Jose. And just to go to.
Line 282	Angela Luckey: Well, tell me a little bit about when we came. When I came to the pre-interview, you said that you used to translate. Yeah. How did you get started in that?
Line 283	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, no one mother just, my mother would just say that, I guess you just assume that I knew both bridges, and I did. I translated, and I found I'd done a good job, and I. And I enjoyed doing that, I still do, I really enjoy, you know, when anybody asked me, you know, and now only one of my granddaughters, I would, I don't remember, do you?
Line 284	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: As a matter of fact, she came over the other day and she's the one that, you know, she. Yes. And she came over the other day. Some lady was sick in Aberdeen and she'd been draining the veneer. She'd had the flu, and she would ask me if I would come up and make an appointment for. I made an appointment with Doctor Magness and see her the next day.
Line 285	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But no. And then one day she'd come with a carload of Mexican ladies and, roving band, and we'll have the men welfare I can get you. Oh, I bet she even made me mad. I said she's not even supposed to be in... I got real mad.
Line 286	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I got ready, and I went over there, and the girl was still wound up in that office. Shit. These Mexican ladies were from American Falls or Aberdeen. And I guess she wasn't gonna give them any help. Stamps and stuff like that. Where she was still wound up when I went in. Nurses. Well, I think that there's some kind of misunderstanding your mama and what she went and got on one of the Mad Men to come to be there.
Line 287	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I said, I don't know this lady, so I said, I just come here to to translate for them. I mean, I'm not related to them. Nothing. What? When the man seen me talking to come, but he come stood there because I don't know just what had gone on before. I don't know what really what had gone on before.
Line 288	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They. I went over there, but gradually when the man seen that I was, you know, they don't ask me what she was asking me, but she was still mad. The girl that was taking everything and she was still mad at him. And then I explained to her just as well. And the way that she was talking, I didn't know if that's the way she was before.
Line 289	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I don't blame them for getting mad, but and I and I told her, you know, they said, we're not lying there. Here's our papers, whatever. And we told them, you know, so I don't know what did it I brought up. Maybe I'd try to interpret herself, but maybe she didn't explain to them right, or something. But after a while, when this man come and stood there and listen, well, then he and he told girl, you know, we'll take whatever you know.
Line 290	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then gradually she calmed down to and she said, we'll just tell them to make sure to see their landlord and that, you know, that we need stay from here of their rent and whatever, you know. And I told them what she was telling me, and madam, what they told me I'd tell them. And and then they said, well, we're not trying to get anything with what they deserve in Arizona.
Line 291	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They treat them. They had come from Arizona. We got the same house in Arizona. And and I said, well, I really don't know. You know, you tell them to come back and bring me these papers. And gradually we talked to Scarman. Now that she was really mad, even herself. And when I got there and when I brought, I told me the way should they had treated him.
Line 292	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I was mad myself, you know. I said, well, no, I can see that if they don't have some of them, if they really don't have somebody to help them, well, you know, they, they have like in that regard a prejudiced or if they could just maybe not like you just because of what you are, they don't even know.
Line 293	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But they'd like you to begin when you walked in there to begin with, you know. No, there was a time when I, you know, we talked and never and never got any start coming down. And I don't know what she says in these papers. And they had been working in one of the centers and stuff, and, and they needed more or she needed a little more information.
Line 294	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then she started coming out with me to them is that I'm stuck in Osceola. Okay. And there's a seat that was empty, secure. You recently because I couldn't see them. This is that was or whatever, you know. So, no one I enjoy doing and they always want to pay me. No, no, I don't want any money.
Line 295	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And no, I don't want you to welcome to eat. No. When I walk home, when they're right there from the welfare, they wanted to give me an all. I said, I walk home myself. I said I know exercise will do me good. So no, you know, they they've always wanted to pay me. I don't want any money. I really enjoy doing it for these people.
Line 296	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You know, when they ask me, do I feel that I help them? You know, I, I think that I do, you know.
Line 297	Angela Luckey: Do you work for the hospital?
Line 298	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I have, yes. See my daughter in a much easier accident on her and my son got a divorce lawyer, grandchildren of the kids of Pocatello Regional. And she'd call me up sometimes I come back to the hospital to interpret for some lady that weren't there. And and I know, and I've even a video putting a clip question for this lady.
Line 299	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She needed some instructions and stuff, and I translated her. Yes. They take you? Yes, they take me. There was only one word that I was stuck on. And I come home in a hurry. And I've got a dictionary that has both languages and has fallen to pieces. I taped it up the other day, because I was the class, which is my what?
Line 300	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: What is the translation to Consuelo? And I really don't know what I know that it to what is Consuelo? Contreras like to cheer you up or. Yeah. Give you pay. Right. Something like that. And I was going to look it up in my in my dictionary that I have the definition of Consuelo. And I said, well, I know this one word was really kind of there's a part of your body and I really want and I sure am bothered.
Line 301	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I come home in a hurry and looked at it and it was what I was thinking. But I didn't want to say until I see the dictionary.
Line 302	Angela Luckey: Have you ever translated in court? Yes, I have translated it.
Line 303	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Was that like for divorce and stuff like that? Yes, I no, I just do the best I can. No, I, I'm not for real fancy words, but I know that more or less what they mean and then they and that's the way that I follow through that way. And I'm, I'm not I'm not doing the fancy word again.
Line 304	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I, I know what they might mean. And my manager, how would you know?
Line 305	Angela Luckey: Do your kids speak Spanish?
Line 306	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Mary Ellen, she and Mary Yellen interpreted some odd issues at the hospital in London. And she there's a lot of people who would people there to go into the hospital you know. So she she lives she's gone to Mexico to with verses of a and a loaded with the kids and and the chaperon and she interprets it back to the she loves it too.
Line 307	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She loves it. And Virginia, she lived long. She too. She lives in manners. And she is without a lot of people. They don't speak English. They're she's not into it any more. Shenanigans and I'm through with that. She has friends, families in the know the matter. Some of your friends are in Mexico right now, but she likes to talk to you know, there's lots of Mexicans in California she lives in.
Line 308	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Very nice. I guess there's a lot of things in Aurora. Aurora can get by. And one of the moves in Denver, she can get by, but she lives of dreams. And that's a great question. She's not quite sure, but she can get by herself. She does not. And she doesn't interpret or anything, but she can give my talking to, you know, people and Cecilia don't know really Robert he understands or which is if he can have a conversation with you.
Line 309	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Raymond doesn't know a word. Neither does Gregory. And Eddie could get by. But Raymond, Cecilia and Gregory, they don't know. When Gregory started work on the police department, they said, oh, now we got a Mexican here. He'll translate. Sorry about that. Hey, do you know he needs an interpreter? You. I know if he doesn't even speak and Raymond doesn't need a ray, but.
Line 310	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And I have said no comprende. They. And, you know, I really thought that we spoke good enough here at home that they could learn. But now. And Cecilia was, you know, going in charge of this and that. You're talking about me. What are you there you are too. I heard you say la mujer. You let me go. But she doesn't.
Line 311	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: She doesn't understand me to know that. In fact, you know, she works at the hospital too. Sometimes they've asked her, you know. Nope. Sorry. Can I help you? I don't really know who. The interpreter for them in the hospital where I know them.
Line 312	Angela Luckey: Well, are there any special traditional things that you've kept up in your family? That they're Mexican?
Line 313	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, I really can't pinpoint anything. No, I really that I passed on to my kids, I really can't say no, no, I really I really can't pinpoint me. One thing that we might have kept up.
Line 314	Angela Luckey: I just have a few, few more things I'd like to know. What about the organization that used to be here in Pocatello? Can you tell me a little bit about it? I, I it was. Well, yeah, when I came.
Line 315	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah. Well there was a lot of movement and things, you know, I remember that they did report 16 of September. As a matter of fact, Annie was right. She was one of the chief them for one of the queen of the 16th of September. She never allowed his daughter treats over Rio. Pretty girl. Very nice. Teresa. I think one greater was voted for Queen Elizabeth in September.
Line 316	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: That's when Annie was. And as a matter of fact, I ran and nanny's picture the other day with their laundry grandson and And no, no. And it was always really nice. You know, I, I remember that it was. I really can't tell you when it started to, you know, everybody go on their own way. But it was nice in those days.
Line 317	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: They really would get to it. You know, the 5th of May and the 16th of September, the old timers, you know, given their speeches, I remember when we were young with them. I wish they very up with their speech. We was a gym to get dance. And, you know, all that good, especially the old, old guys are the real patriotic to the, is an army that we could stay with them, whatever.
Line 318	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And they'd go on and on, you know what to do. But it was and, and their picture wasn't big, you know, big pictures and medals and pins and red, white and green, whatever, you know, and then ribbon and all. And it was it was nice. I remember we enjoyed it all the time and they brought there always had a leader and a man and a woman.
Line 319	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, as a matter of fact, my mother, they called her the president, that for years the president that I called her because she was the president of the. And then I really, you know, Joe Ortega's mother, Maria and I if when Maria and Maria marianna president you know, that's the way she would know. And I found this old timer and say it was so many Maria, you know, but she was a model of this man.
Line 320	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But and she spoke real good, you know, non-English speaking. She could speak a little bit Spanish and, and knew she would give a speech. And she was the real good talker. You know, the young man, she got ran a lot. She was a real intelligent lady. She was the trade. You and she was. And I remember it was it was a fun time, I remember, but I really can't tell you when gradually and gradually there was just too many chiefs and not and never what did I what do they say.
Line 321	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Too many I none of chiefs whatever. And then it just kind of fizzled down. But I remember it was a fun time. And they used to collect, you know, for the 16th September for the dances. And my music was really nice work. Tell me the truth. I don't know where they come from. Maybe they were local, I don't know, but I remember the music was really nice and and it was a fun time.
Line 322	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And everybody buy a new dress and like stores with J.C. Penney's. I remember many from out of town buying new dresses and bread and stuff. It was a fun time.
Line 323	Angela Luckey: But how many years did that last?
Line 324	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, I really I really can't tell you that Seymour could have stood quite a while. It lasted quite a while, and then all of a sudden I. I remember that I used to it was too many. Too many. You just didn't seem to get together, right? For some reason, I. I can't tell. You know what it was? It it caused it to, you know, it just wasn't done anymore.
Line 325	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: But I remember them going from house to house to the Mexican collections for their celebration and stuff, and people would come from all over. I remember it was people from all around like say, Aberdeen Blackfoot and and pretty soon I remember they were saying they couldn't find a place to have it. They weren't random places. I think they would say they didn't want to random House big enough to have their celebrations, and maybe they got discouraged.
Line 326	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I really can't, I really can't tell you what what happened because. But anyway, all in all, the years that it was on was a fun time. I do remember that was a fun time because even when my girls were growing up, I remember that the girls from Aberdeen, they were running for queens and princesses and stuff, you know, and they'd come here and dress and things and.
Line 327	Angela Luckey: How was the Queen picked?
Line 328	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: By votes? But who voted? I can't tell. Yeah, that I think it was done by votes, I think system by. Oh, really? Can't tell you how I was. Oh 50 Queen for there. So what the 16th. That's the Independence Day and the 5th of May is what, the end of a revolution, wasn't it, Yeah. What is that like end of a revolution?
Line 329	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: French? Or when the French your. When Maximilian was in Mexico.
Line 330	Angela Luckey: Hum. Well, I see that's about all. There's some Aladdin ends here. Did you have any radio programs in Spanish in those days?
Line 331	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, no, no, it wasn't until, Steve Rella, you know. But no, when I was growing up. No, there was nothing like that. I don't remember. Well, Mexicans in that time did to I don't remember that they were that well organized or that they used to merrily say, I don't remember. No, they just didn't do it because. No.
Line 332	Angela Luckey: When you were a little girl, did you play any kind of games that were Mexican games?
Line 333	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, I don't remember any games. But maybe my mother didn't play any games. I don't remember of any Mexican games.
Line 334	Angela Luckey: No. Like when you were outside.
Line 335	Angela Luckey: Know, think about it.
Line 336	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I know, I know how we did. No, we didn't play any of those games. And like I say, we were the only family there. And maybe if there had been other Mexican children to play with. No, no, we didn't have any Mexican children to play with.
Line 337	Angela Luckey: Did your did your parents did your parents, your mom or dad? Did they cook anything? Any special way like fit in the outside or anything?
Line 338	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No, I'm the same with you.
Line 339	Angela Luckey: She had a regular stone.
Line 340	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah.
Line 341	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: The regular stone. Well, no, because we just lived in the section of the railroad.
Line 342	Angela Luckey: Did you have an.
Line 343	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Excuse me? And then when we moved in, the town was, you know. Oh.
Line 344	Angela Luckey: Did you have an icebox or a refrigerator? What did you. How did you keep your food fresh?
Line 345	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: We might have had a nice box. Yeah, we had a nice box, because, see, the section had an ice house. And I remember we used to go there and we could have ice. There's the ones that worked and we'd go to the ice house. And when my dad with, with the pick would get a chunk of ice to put in the icebox, we would eat the and the, the little mama.
Line 346	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. They had a nice box and I, I think they used to say that they'd go up that like Highland Park and that to get ice for the summer and the section houses, it was the ice house and no, the ice was stored in sawdust. I remember that it was an ice house and the ice was stored in, in some mystery.
Line 347	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And then those ones that weren't there could have I seen them? I would like chainsaws to put in my ice box. It was a small market.
Line 348	Angela Luckey: And when you went to visit the people in Blackley or Idaho Falls, you said you kind of made an all day trip of it. Yes. Any. And sometimes you do a ride back. Yeah. And if you didn't, you just walk.
Line 349	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, like I told you so. Yeah. Like to the Shelley and to Blackfoot. We could but like and like I say, when we left Idaho Falls or we come here to Pocatello, we'd ride the train back and my dad had a family pass.
Line 350	Angela Luckey: What if it was snowing?
Line 351	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Well, we just didn't go.
Line 352	Angela Luckey: We just stayed home.
Line 353	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: It stayed? Yeah, we just stayed home.
Line 354	Angela Luckey: No. You had called the chemical?
Line 355	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yes. And most of you had called. Yeah. We'd have to come. And like I say, we got our clothing from this here store. Yeah. And, cracked.
Line 356	Angela Luckey: That little.
Line 357	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: American, that little market. Yeah.
Line 358	Angela Luckey: Who owned it?
Line 359	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Mr. Di di is a name that is real common. There's a lot of dyes in here. Every now and then I see I'll hear a name and, you know, people that have passed on from birth and around Shelley. And it says they lived in Turkey and the dyes becomes gosh was.
Line 360	Angela Luckey: Gosh was.
Line 361	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My gosh was and who Mr.. Gosh. Well, I run one of the grocery stores, Andrews. Those that are names of families were.
Line 362	Angela Luckey: In the first area.
Line 363	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: In the fruit area, and there was one family of Norwegians and one of which is a girl's name was Hannah, and the boy's.
Line 364	Angela Luckey: Name was Hans.
Line 365	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: And the dad worked on the railroad to see there was a Mexican and a Norwegian. Another nationality. And they lived in for the night. And there was some. Forest, which is peaches, kickoffs, I don't know do. And there was there the family check ups and like I say, the families that were and from fruit I'd like I say they always I have a little brother that's buried in the cemetery and fruit and it's just a little flat and.
Line 366	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: I remember my brother died there, and there was another Mexican that was killed there. At first he was a young man. He was going to catch a train and he missed. And his legs went under the train and cut his legs off, and he bled to death. By the time and the hospital was in Idaho Falls. And he's buried there one year.
Line 367	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: My brother and sister never come back. Imagine. Find him. Even if you land in in spirit and in truth in the 70s.
Line 368	Angela Luckey: And I remember other than, your job sewing when you were young girl. Did you have any other jobs? Did you do any.
Line 369	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Other work outside the home?
Line 370	Unknown: No, no, I mean, the church.
Line 371	Angela Luckey: Can you think of anything else that you think you'd like to add?
Line 372	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: No one can think of. No. You'd have to ask me.
Line 373	Angela Luckey: But I ran out of questions.
Line 374	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: Yeah. No, there's nothing I.
Line 375	Mrs. Juanita Zazueta Huerta: You know.
Line 376	Angela Luckey: Thank you very much.

Lopez, Maria (Mary) Rodriguez

Line 0
Line 1	Patricia McDaniel: One two three
Line 2	Patricia McDaniel: This is Patricia McDaniel at an interview with Maria Rodriguez Lopez at her home in Nampa, Idaho. Today's date is April 16th, 1991.
Line 3	Patricia McDaniel: Okay, Mrs. Lopez. Let's start at the beginning, talking about when you came and left Idaho. Where did you come from? Jairo?
Line 4	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, I came from Park, Texas.
Line 5	Patricia McDaniel: Park, Texas.
Line 6	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Y vine a Everlyn.
Line 7	Patricia McDaniel: In what year?
Line 8	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It's 1945.
Line 9	Patricia McDaniel: And did you come alone or with family?
Line 10	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: My dad. He came with me to get married. Because my mom couldn't come because it was too expensive. So my dad just came and we got married, and everything went backwards.
Line 11	Patricia McDaniel: So her boyfriend was waiting here in Idaho. Did he have a job?
Line 12	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They weren't in the Army.
Line 13	Patricia McDaniel: You came from Park, Texas to be here in Idaho with your husband?
Line 14	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, in, uh, we got married in January of '22 in 1945.
Line 15	Patricia McDaniel: And what do you think about when you arrived here in Idaho? Or is this your first time?
Line 16	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or she left. Or she was really nervous and scared. Well, I didn't know anyone. I didn't know anyone, not even that. But no, I knew the people from before because we were neighbors, so my husband and I knew each other before and we were boyfriend and girlfriend, but when he went overseas during the last war, as they call it, we broke up.
Line 17	Patricia McDaniel: It will end.
Line 18	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Friendship, because he said it was better that way too, and I also agreed until he came back. So if anything, we were, it was time for us to go back like that, just like when he first arrived here in Everlyn and we were going to the United States back from the last war, he sent me a letter saying he wanted us to be boyfriend and girlfriend again, and then I...
Line 19	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In another letter he sent me an offer of marriage, which would mean that we would get married.
Line 20	Patricia McDaniel: And that's how she got here to Idaho. And she was very nervous.
Line 21	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Very nervous, with a husband. And no, we got married.
Line 22	Patricia McDaniel: Everything is very pretty.
Line 23	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: My wedding already.
Line 24	Patricia McDaniel: And the wedding is where it was. Here where? In Everlyn.
Line 25	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In the garden Where?
Line 26	Patricia McDaniel: With friends.
Line 27	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then my in-laws, the parents of everyone they knew in Everlyn, along with many relatives and friends they knew from back in Texas. So everyone was at the wedding for every occasion. It was very nice, there was lots of food. We got married in the afternoon.
Line 28	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 29	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And the dinner arrived quite large.
Line 30	Patricia McDaniel: So it was a good party.
Line 31	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Very big and quite a lot of snow.
Line 32	Patricia McDaniel: There was a lot of snow.
Line 33	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I remember that on the day when we were going to get married because we were married by the judge and me, my husband and the godparents who went with him, had to carry a shovel to the judge's house afterwards because there was a lot of snow, etc. and the same thing going back to get me into the car hahaha.
Line 34	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, but like this.
Line 35	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, My dad was also my dad was present.
Line 36	Patricia McDaniel: So you got married in front of a judge instead of in a church?
Line 37	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then, can I continue? Well, when, when I left, he came back because he was in the service and then they sent him to California. And then, when it was over, the war ended, and he got his discharge. That was in August of '45, and then he re-enlisted in '48, and then Korea.
Line 38	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And when he came back, they sent him to France, and I went there with him. At the time, my oldest daughter, Taba, was five years old, and that's when we got married in church.
Line 39	Patricia McDaniel: In France.
Line 40	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: So, in, in, in, in, as they say in the Army post there, in the Army chat, we got married in church. Mhm. And also, well, acquaintances I had among soldiers with their family attended the wedding.
Line 41	Patricia McDaniel: How come they didn't get married in a church in Everlyn?
Line 42	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because that time was very short, let's say, they didn't have enough time. But now the more we got married, the following week they sent him to Robert to guard German prisoners. And then we had about a month here in Rupert. And then they sent him to California.
Line 43	Patricia McDaniel: Ah, let's talk a little bit about your work, Rupert's husband's husband's work in guarding prisoners from. From Germany.
Line 44	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, from Germany. Yeah. Yes. He was a guard. The prisoners.
Line 45	Patricia McDaniel: And how was work? How was it?
Line 46	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, the the The.
Line 47	Patricia McDaniel: What did he think of the prisoners?
Line 48	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They were very strict. No. No. Did they treat them badly? No. He wanted to keep them safe. Naturally, they gave them orders that if they wanted to escape, they wouldn't. But he never says that those he looked after never gave him any trouble. Mhm. Very good prisoners. And they looked after them very well. And everything they brought was taken out in the morning to work in Betabel.
Line 49	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Then my husband told me that they used machetes to harvest the beets, like they use those machines now. They used machetes. They used that, and they walked on their knees, the poor things. And sometimes what they did because it was cold. When it was cold, he says they made a fire, they roasted beets to eat, and then sometimes when the potatoes came, they also put us to...
Line 50	Patricia McDaniel: Toward.
Line 51	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: So, to fish for potatoes, they used straw. Now they don't. Now they just use a machine, and they also made a fire and threw in roasted potatoes like mash potatoes. It says there was a prisoner who was very funny and laughed with the patient because he was very mischievous and spoke little English. He said.
Line 52	Patricia McDaniel: The prisoners spoke, they spoke English
Line 53	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I know, and more so, and they dared to talk to him like that, but this one of them was very, very funny, very funny. How are you?
Line 54	Patricia McDaniel: Please bite.
Line 55	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or really good at telling jokes like that. And then he'd say, "I'd work and work," and I'd say, "Well, he told us we had to cross America, but he didn't tell us how far we had to go, even on our knees, but he was very, very naughty, very naughty." And my husband laughed a lot with him.
Line 56	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 57	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then, well, I'll tell you, they sent him for it.
Line 58	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 59	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: The war is over and they took him back.
Line 60	Patricia McDaniel: Did you take Germany right away? No, just like that. How long had you been with Rupper?
Line 61	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, well, we were there for almost two months. When they sent him to California, eh?
Line 62	Patricia McDaniel: And where did they live? In.
Line 63	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In or on a little house we rented. Mhm. In a little house we rented.
Line 64	Patricia McDaniel: And it's in the little house.
Line 65	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or in a small house, or just one, a bedroom in the kitchen and everything comes out. But back then, no, there was no television. We'll see if with us, he didn't think of fear. Yeah, but how were they doing or were we like that? (inaudible)
Line 66	Patricia McDaniel: How did you have fun? What did you do when he wasn't around? Okay.
Line 67	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, I mostly listened to the radio when he came over sometimes when they were having dinner, or when he came over, because he left in the afternoon around 5:00 p.m. Sometimes when he came over, dinner was already ready, and we'd have dinner. We'd say, let's go to the movies or go somewhere to see a movie.
Line 68	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: You see they weren't going to be at dinner.
Line 69	Patricia McDaniel: And there were or were other Hispanics at that time who.
Line 70	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Probably yes, but I didn't meet anyone because we spent quite a bit of time in that little town. It's a small town. Who knows? Now I know.
Line 71	Patricia McDaniel: I know, I know.
Line 72	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: See.
Line 73	Patricia McDaniel: Well, let's go. Let's go. Instead of going in. Let's go ahead, let's go back a little bit to the past to talk a little bit about your life in Texas and your upbringing. Your parents? Where were they from?
Line 74	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: My dad and mom were born in Mexico. They were born and raised Mexican. He hates it.
Line 75	Patricia McDaniel: And when and when is that I saw how they came to the United States and when.
Line 76	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, my dad came to work alone first. I think he said the first year he came to the country to the Texas Valley was 1913, and he worked with a rancher. Oh, but I don't remember how many years he was there. It was about two or three years. And then he brought my mom over, and the rancher himself and his wife were the godparents.
Line 77	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because he went and brought it to her.
Line 78	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 79	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And there they were, at the work ranch.
Line 80	Patricia McDaniel: They got married in Texas.
Line 81	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Ok. On that one.
Line 82	Patricia McDaniel: In that one.
Line 83	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In Mercedes, Texas. Yes. And then there. Well, then. The rancher didn't want to run the ranch anymore, as they call it, and... And then my dad came to Far and there he started looking for odd jobs doing labor because he had to.
Line 84	Patricia McDaniel: His his his father too.
Line 85	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: That is, that's where my two brothers were born, and the first five that my mother had in her family, they all died.
Line 86	Patricia McDaniel: The first ones.
Line 87	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Five first five.
Line 88	Patricia McDaniel: After.
Line 89	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Then he was born, then my brother was born, who is the one who lives in ... right now. Mhm. He's the oldest of us, eh?
Line 90	Patricia McDaniel: But in reality he was the 6th one who came.
Line 91	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I was coming then. Mhm. Because my mom says it's the 18th.
Line 92	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It was the first year of '18 or '17. That's when a very strong influence came and my mom was raising some one-and-a-half-year-old boys and they died from that strong influence that there was and then it was when she had my brother who lives in peace.
Line 93	Patricia McDaniel: And you were also born in Zaragoza.
Line 94	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And we were all born there.
Line 95	Patricia McDaniel: And he has two sisters, he told me the other day.
Line 96	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In California, in California.
Line 97	Patricia McDaniel: Two sisters in California, but they were also born in Far. There was, and so you spent your entire life in Far before coming to Idaho.
Line 98	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: To them, as if I were.
Line 99	Patricia McDaniel: And let's talk a little about the education you had back in Far. There was school in Far. Tell me a little about your education.
Line 100	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I mean, I went until, Because the school they call School plus talk and then it's that in high school back then there was no way to see Junior High and all that and it was even from six they moved me to High School, which was when it started at that time and that until then I only had until 11th grade.
Line 101	Patricia McDaniel: And you finished.
Line 102	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, I only made it to grade nine. I didn't want to go anymore, right?
Line 103	Patricia McDaniel: And what did I do? And what did he do after finishing his formal education? What did he do after that?
Line 104	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, well, I worked. They did odd jobs, they worked in fruit packing plants, packing fruit. There was a plantation house that we called "café." A plantation house where they would plant plants in pots, and then from there, some would sell them to stores and all that. And... And no more work, because...
Line 105	Patricia McDaniel: Until until until he came.
Line 106	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Idaho
Line 107	Patricia McDaniel: See each other or get married.
Line 108	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then for a, in one, as they call it, cementary of tuberculosis. This There they had me for nine months and my brother too because...
Line 109	Patricia McDaniel: As sick.
Line 110	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: As if I were sick and then they said we would be there for like nine months to be sure that no and no, well after three months the doctor told me that they could kiss me and I told my brother that, that they just had different bedrooms for us, separate for the men and the women and and only on Sundays they gave us permission, no more than half an hour to talk about ..., that is to say to visit each other and and and I told my husband that the doctor had told me that I could go home, that I was fine.
Line 111	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And she said no! She said no, stay the nine months so we don't leave together. And so I stayed and then when I got out that was in '42, in December, in '42 we got out and in '43 in the In the spring time they sent me a letter asking if I wanted to come work at the center as a nursing assistant. And when I came I stayed there for three months only and I didn't want to work because there was one outside for the payment only $20 a month with room and board, things, but still $20, who knows, I still would have lasted like that because I had everything, but they put me in the infirmary and Farmers when the patients were really serious, my.
Line 112	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then no, they didn't give you any more chewing gum or gloves or anything.
Line 113	Patricia McDaniel: Stop, stop.
Line 114	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: For the cleaning and everything, I had to do my own cleaning in my room, and I was a little scared, so I said no. So yes, yes, I got over this illness all right. I didn't want to get the infection. I texted my dad and mom instead. They said, "No, because if you're not comfortable, you don't want to be here anymore."
Line 115	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And how did he do it in Mexico? Mhm.
Line 116	Patricia McDaniel: So he did it again.
Line 117	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, it was when I started working like that with some tomato packing plants, where they also dump tomatoes. I also worked there.
Line 118	Patricia McDaniel: I was working quite a bit like that before coming to Idaho, so let's jump in, let's do one, one, let's jump in. Let's talk again about your life here in Idaho. You told me the other day that after this season, your husband went back to work in the Army, right? And then you went to live in France, in France.
Line 119	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, that was when he came back from Korea. They sent him back because of Washington. And then I was leaving and I was here in Tampa with my in-laws, and I was going to go there. And then he told me that, right? He said, "No, don't come back, because they gave me the order that they're going to send me to Arkansas," he said.
Line 120	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: So I ordered a stroller, which we had, and it was even, I don't remember the year. Anyway, a very good stroller, and I sent it to the garage to get it tuned up, and then he came to us on the bus, I think it was on the train, I don't remember, and he picked me up, my daughter, and we went in the stroller.
Line 121	Patricia McDaniel: But before you left, you lived here in the house for a while.
Line 122	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah.
Line 123	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah. And what did you do here in Tampa? Did you work?
Line 124	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or sometimes. Sometimes I worked in beetroot. What do they call it here? I realized I'd never worked in that field. And then...
Line 125	Patricia McDaniel: What.
Line 126	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: This Black, they call him.
Line 127	Patricia McDaniel: So.
Line 128	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: So they used this little hoe, and since my back hurt, and since I didn't work much at it, because everything was done by contract, and I wasn't contracted, well, when I wasn't there, the pay would increase because I wasn't quick to get better. I liked working by the hour. Yeah.
Line 129	Patricia McDaniel: So with a little bit of the contract and how it went.
Line 130	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: The contract for beet work. Mhm. That's even a good idea. They pay, right? Well, for example, $20 or $25 an acre, and naturally, those who are too light for that daily work can even do an acre, which is more important. It depends on how they are; the beets are so filthy and clean that they're clean. And those who are good at it, well, they get paid much more now.
Line 131	Patricia McDaniel: Now yes, of course.
Line 132	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They get paid a lot more and some are very quick to do well.
Line 133	Patricia McDaniel: That's how it worked for a while.
Line 134	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I don't know, later when we came from France, this was when.
Line 135	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: We came here, here in. I left then, I went with my mom over there, here to the Valley, because, uh, my mom got really sick and that's when she died of cancer. That was in '56 and I was there with my dad. I didn't want to leave him alone for a while until my husband passed away, he was here, he was here, he was here.
Line 136	Patricia McDaniel: So.
Line 137	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I was working, doing odd jobs, and then at the end of '56, we came, and then by then my son was also here, who was born in France, and we came by train. And since we didn't have any property yet, we rented, I don't know, a little house until we found a little place, and then he started to get sick and struggle.
Line 138	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: That's how it was when the veterans sent him to duty, they sent him to cover for ten months there and...
Line 139	Patricia McDaniel: And what was he sick from?
Line 140	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because when he went to the hospital, he was sick. He got pneumonia, like he wanted to get it, and when he got to the hospital, and they were there for about two months, by then it wasn't pneumonia, so he got some back pain that the doctor said was like arthritis. Then, and right after that, that's when he got pneumonia really bad.
Line 141	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mhm. And. And then they sent him from there. The veterans sent him to Cury, that's where the hospital was.
Line 142	Patricia McDaniel: And you went with him?
Line 143	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Not at first, no. The three months he was there, no, because they couldn't. They wouldn't let anyone visit unless he spoke to me, either by phone or text. But no, later on, when I was there, they would bring in more visitors, we'd go and...
Line 144	Patricia McDaniel: And what about the hospital in Wudin? What was it like? What was it like? Were they hospitalized?
Line 145	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, but there he had only patients like this, since that tuberculosis illness, he was there for 10 months.
Line 146	Patricia McDaniel: There were very good doctors and nurses.
Line 147	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Very clean, and my husband says he was doing very well. He says those who were quite ill had surgery, and I don't know what's wrong, but they removed ribs, and many times they came out like this on one side, they were on one side, mhm, but he was there for ten months.
Line 148	Patricia McDaniel: And very comfortable and And you went to visit.
Line 149	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Either I know or I don't know that he was there and when they let him out, the Wilkinses went outside, me and my two children went.
Line 150	Patricia McDaniel: And you went in in in the.
Line 151	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No car, on the bus.
Line 152	Patricia McDaniel: In a little while, if not in the car.
Line 153	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or sometimes I didn't have one. I don't know how to drive.
Line 154	Patricia McDaniel: Not yet.
Line 155	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or not? I could never learn. No, they tried to teach me. My wife and then my children, when they grew up. I don't get very nervous, and I said no, no, no, no, because I'm going, and God I'm going to have an accident. And there's no need to say no, better yet, I never learned. No, because if they tried to teach me, I'd rather go on the bus, otherwise I'd see how his brothers or his sister would get along.
Line 156	Patricia McDaniel: To someone who was going.
Line 157	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: To visit it too and because they wanted to see what was going to happen to them too.
Line 158	Patricia McDaniel: How long did it take to go on the bus, On the bus?
Line 159	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, it arrived about three hours later.
Line 160	Patricia McDaniel: So nothing.
Line 161	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Close, right? If not, it's not productive.
Line 162	Patricia McDaniel: And when she went to visit him on the bus where he was staying.
Line 163	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: A hotel, where I rented a quarter of a motel, there was a motel nearby, right there at the hospital. It was there. Okay.
Line 164	Patricia McDaniel: So, let's talk a little about life here in Nampa. And what it was like and how the years have passed here in Nampa. The year they came to live here in Nampa, never to stay. What year was it?
Line 165	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, it was like this, to establish a place on our property. Our little house. It was in '57 when we bought the house, and he was looking for jobs like that until he found a job in a store. And he worked there.
Line 166	Patricia McDaniel: Like a shop doing.
Line 167	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: That was this as a Clerk, as the also says this almost 15 years worked here until the store closed.
Line 168	Patricia McDaniel: And what was the name of the store?
Line 169	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: La Napa Food Center
Line 170	Patricia McDaniel: It was a store...
Line 171	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, oh.
Line 172	Patricia McDaniel: The groceries
Line 173	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And then in '69 we went back to that little house, we sold the little house and bought here.
Line 174	Patricia McDaniel: With.
Line 175	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It's here, and then when I started working at the plant that used to be Potato Grow, I think. And then they moved it to Western, and now it's located in Carnation. I worked there for 14 and a half years, 14 years.
Line 176	Patricia McDaniel: I could pay for the machine and walk away. Okay, let's talk a little about work.
Line 177	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Now.
Line 178	Patricia McDaniel: Well, we have a little bit more on this side. Uh, let's talk a little bit about your work working in the packing houses.
Line 179	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Where
Line 180	Patricia McDaniel: Not here No.
Line 181	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It's processing, they call it. At first, no, no. So I wasn't working as they call it, standy. Mhm. This one, yes, because they gave you a lot of layoff. Two, or sometimes two or three weeks? It depends.
Line 182	Patricia McDaniel: It depends. It depends on what?
Line 183	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: From whatever work they had there. From Dad. Why are you rushing, Dad, huh? And there were times when Dad's work was very scarce, and naturally, the new ones would get laid off. And that's how I was, for about a year. So, they gave me a lot of leave, until later, when they caught me, already during my period, and that's when I worked for 14 years until I retired.
Line 184	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mhm.
Line 185	Patricia McDaniel: But always doing the same thing, right?
Line 186	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Sometimes they put me in the Clean Room, that's where she's peeling a potato, peeling the potatoes, and then the dad comes, right away, she cleans up anything bad, removing the little things, yes, and what's half-stained with rotten food. But at most, they put me in the inspection of the, as they call it, the French Fried, to remove what was there.
Line 187	Patricia McDaniel: So it was a thing of almost one part machinery and another part people.
Line 188	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: The work of almost everything was running on the sidelines, everything where the potatoes go through those inspections that tell them that the potatoes are cut, not cooked, no.
Line 189	Patricia McDaniel: Raw but already raw.
Line 190	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: But you see, I grabbed the tip with the ladle, with my hand like this because I didn't even want us to use the knife. Here in the center, we had to be like this.
Line 191	Patricia McDaniel: And what else did you like about the job?
Line 192	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, well, I liked that line of inspection better. And there were times when...
Line 193	Patricia McDaniel: Because?
Line 194	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because no, it wasn't hard work and cleaner. No, it was very tough, just like here in the clean room where the potato is being processed.
Line 195	Patricia McDaniel: And who worked with you, who was it, the other people who worked with you.
Line 196	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or they changed depending on.
Line 197	Patricia McDaniel: Many Hispanic women.
Line 198	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or everything, all mixed up, all mixed up. This Mexican does.
Line 199	Patricia McDaniel: Hispanic. I'm Mexican and also American.
Line 200	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I mean, I'm the only one who's inspected as Mexican. The rest depends on the American one. If the potato wasn't clean enough, the most they had was four, and when it was really clean, only two, hmmm. So the one that was the most attractive, they left them at the table as an exception, and the rest they sent me to the table.
Line 201	Patricia McDaniel: And you stayed put during the inspection to see if it had been there for enough years.
Line 202	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I don't know when there will be more, gentlemen, it's increasing. Well, they left me there, and there were times when I was in the clean room here, in the first one, a machine would break down. They would ask volunteers who wanted to work on the packaging, and there were times when I...
Line 203	Patricia McDaniel: You're talking about this packing job and you were going to tell me why you didn't like that job.
Line 204	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because many times I had to lift boxes and they weren't heavy enough. And I wasn't. I was afraid to handle heavy things on my own.
Line 205	Patricia McDaniel: For him, for the damage, or for this. Why?
Line 206	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, yeah, it was coming, when the French fries came, the bread rolls or there were times when they ran, when they went to the packaging they came in little packages, in plastic bags and one just grabbed the plastic bags because the boxes go by gang and they had to throw them away quickly or the plastic bags came or whatever French fries it was one had to grab the bag quickly, pack the products at home, because if it didn't happen and I could, it wasn't too soon for that.
Line 207	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah, eh. Sometimes it was better that the supervisor put a band on me when I was going through customs. The main thing was that she'd better put me there to remove the suspects who told her what was kind of rotten and you don't know what she said. What do they call it? They changed every half hour and they keep changing every other hour.
Line 208	Patricia McDaniel: Place or something like that.
Line 209	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because not only did some have just one job.
Line 210	Patricia McDaniel: AND.
Line 211	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It was helpful because you were learning everything. Aha, aha.
Line 212	Patricia McDaniel: And did you like that?
Line 213	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, yes, yes, I liked it. Not very well, like, ah.
Line 214	Patricia McDaniel: He rose, he rose after so many years, he rose to a position like that of a supervisor.
Line 215	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, no, no, no.
Line 216	Patricia McDaniel: Never.
Line 217	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, that's it. That's what you need. I think you need a lot of study and knowledge to know everything, as the paper says. Everyone has to pass.
Line 218	Patricia McDaniel: Those of day.
Line 219	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And almost the most important thing is the... The only woman who worked like that was the big lady, the one who was the supervisor of the clean room for packaging, but from then on, the supervisors were all men because they had to...
Line 220	Patricia McDaniel: So, all men. There were no women like that, but those who worked on the gangs or in inspection or in the first were all women.
Line 221	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, women, mhm.
Line 222	Patricia McDaniel: So the boss was always a man.
Line 223	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, the mere supervisor they called the woman, they called her big lady, who was the one we made her here as a butler, if she wasn't in touch with us, eh? And they would tell you, well, they need so many women in a gang, they changed or they needed one or two there where the potato was happening or something like that.
Line 224	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Dog.
Line 225	Patricia McDaniel: And what were the conditions like at that factory or at that one? At the, at that, at that place. They treated me very well.
Line 226	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, yes, they treated us very well. And then, when I started working, there wasn't this one.
Line 227	Patricia McDaniel: What year did you start working?
Line 228	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: In the last few years. Let's see. It wasn't like February 69, like that, but now, but it's like I'm telling you, they gave me a lot of money. I started already, already, already, on my period. It was in '71, when I stopped slimming down like that.
Line 229	Patricia McDaniel: This is how I've been on layoff for two years.
Line 230	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: From the police and then the police came in. Because when I started working there, no, there wasn't Junior, and then the police came in, and no, and when he came in, a lot changed because, as much as those in the Watchers payments as they call them, and the police by honor and so on, there were many things that there were that he had that could help us in the union.
Line 231	Patricia McDaniel: You were a member of the union.
Line 232	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Eh, no, I don't have to pay. Eh. So you're a common land. Yesterday, when the union came in, the two who call it what they call it didn't work.
Line 233	Patricia McDaniel: If they are from Aha.
Line 234	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well.
Line 235	Patricia McDaniel: The costs of being a member.
Line 236	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah. And even when I retired, there was very good insurance, benefits from everything, but it all came from the Union.
Line 237	Patricia McDaniel: So, before entering the Union there was no security or anything.
Line 238	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: There were no years. Yeah, and they pretended they had whatever they wanted with the workers. I mean, if you didn't like the position they gave you, if you didn't want to work, then quit. And when the Union came in, it didn't change much, right? In a way, because we had minimal meetings very often with the Union. So they're representatives, uh.
Line 239	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And by then they already had someone in charge of receiving complaints to see how they treated you. And all of that was written down and when we had the union, the meeting, eh, the one in charge said, well, this is happening and says, oh no, it's not right. That's what I said, I was going to give to the supervisors and the mero or as they call him, since they ran the entire plant there, the boss, well, the one who, as they say, also the manager, to walk around there in his place, with the one who ran the entire plant, he ordered the supervisors and everything and he went and talked and this is not right and well, to do this and this
Line 240	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: and.
Line 241	Patricia McDaniel: And the manager noticed the complaints many times.
Line 242	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He didn't realize what was happening until it was said. And any accidents that occurred had to be reported. Or if a job, for example, in a place where it was very, very hot, like on some gang or something, they put a worker there, a hard worker, they forgot about it and left it there.
Line 243	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And the union said oh no, when it's really hot, just half an hour and change it, because no, it can't be that it's there for long where it is.
Line 244	Patricia McDaniel: So the workers. They were more comfortable with the union.
Line 245	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because they did a lot for the workers. I don't know how it will work now, because when I left that was still in place, but then the so-called right to work came in. And it changed a lot, because now they say that if you don't want to pay or join the Union, no, it's not required.
Line 246	Patricia McDaniel: But before yes.
Line 247	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And before, you did have to pay, and naturally, it was better because, in the end, you had the right to speak, to defend yourself, and the Union helps you. And now, when that came in, well, those who didn't want it, and many others, or me now, later. Those who didn't pay, Twelve, wanted to be given the same benefits as those who are paying, and that's it.
Line 248	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And I'm not very familiar with that because I don't know how it's right, but I had already retired or four.
Line 249	Patricia McDaniel: Of course, that's always a problem. There's a union, and there are some workers who are members and then there are others who aren't, but those who aren't members have the same benefits.
Line 250	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I mean, many, many people think no, that's not good, because for my part, if that had happened, ah, before I retired, if the person following me was paying all their electricity bills and everything, and I wasn't, it wasn't fair that I also wanted the same thing. I need.
Line 251	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah.
Line 252	Patricia McDaniel: And while I was there, you were working with, on, on, on what your husband was doing.
Line 253	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He was already there when he started working at the store where he's been doing it in '68. Yeah, well, when I was here. I started working here at Carnation, he was already there at the store, well, when he started working at the store in '68, and I started working at the store in '69, at the 60th.
Line 254	Patricia McDaniel: And her husband was happy with his job, and after many years he became a supervisor. Yes.
Line 255	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: When? Because when he came in, it was like a very close position. They were messengers for the store. He ran the store and... And he treated him very well and everything. So they got along very well. But some time later, her husband got sick and died of cancer. Yes, in the PAP that said it was the message that he was running the store, and when he died, then they put my husband in charge of the store because by then he had been working for a while and no, well, they closed the store, he could.
Line 256	Patricia McDaniel: And after that age what happened to you?
Line 257	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: With your husband? So he started to get very sick. First, he got sick, he came down with it, and then when it wasn't one illness, it was something else, and so he didn't leave the VA hospital. When it wasn't one thing, it was something else, something else. And he struggled a lot to get them to treat him.
Line 258	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He wanted his Social Security, or what do you call it, Disability, and he struggled a lot. And in the end, a labor specialist told him what he had and said it wouldn't work out, and that's why the disease never goes away. And then my husband said, "Well, what am I going to do?" That's how I am, because his whole body was covered in this skin disease.
Line 259	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mhm. I mean, do you think that in a store, where I have the most experience living, working, like you are, they're going to take care of me the way I am? And he said, or he said, no, don't take care of me. By then, he sent me to the hospital for eight weeks, like waiting, he said, "You're going to go there and I'm going to go take care of what's there."
Line 260	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He said, "And the government is going to pay me because I'm going to get all the medication that the health specialist prescribed for my husband. They didn't have it at the hospital, so he ordered all that medication to be brought and they gave it to him there, at the other VA hospital. They kept him there for eight weeks."
Line 261	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And that's when he told them, "Well, what am I going to do? I have my family, and he's a specialist." He said, "No, he can." He said, "I'll come because I've already," he said. "No one told them my husband, no one among the doctors, not even our family doctor, has ever wanted to help me get my disability, because he doesn't know what I have." Then he said, "Yes, I know, so when?"
Line 262	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And him.
Line 263	Patricia McDaniel: He helped in taking out.
Line 264	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, it was when the same specialist sent a letter to social security, another one to the veterans and another doctor to us in the family, telling us what he had, what illness he had and everything, and well, explaining everything to them, and then, after a month, they started helping him and since then, now, I can't do it anymore, there's no other one, no, there's no work, the simple truth is.
Line 265	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: One because he was already very sick and that, the older he was, the more so.
Line 266	Patricia McDaniel: So you didn't go back to work, right?
Line 267	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Even then they were already helping him with the social number and... And the veterans don't
Line 268	Patricia McDaniel: Let's go back a little bit to your life here in Nampa while you were working and also when the children were very young, and talk a little about life, not only at work, but also about life living here in Nampa. And I want to know, for example, something about your children's school days and how they spent their time at school and their experiences with their friends and teachers.
Line 269	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh, well, them. Well, me.
Line 270	Patricia McDaniel: The three of us, three years old, two daughters.
Line 271	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And I'm not a son and I don't own anything. When I was working in the fields without anything, when I left, when I was layoff at the plant, I told them the plant, the one they didn't have. Or in the summer. So when they were 14, 15 years old, I took them. The work they started to know what it's like to work in the fields and I didn't like it. I didn't tell them, well, I told them one of two things: either you're going to continue wanting to work like that or you finish your studies, your school, so that you can get a good job yourselves, and no, well, they made a fuss and...
Line 272	Patricia McDaniel: They graduated from high school.
Line 273	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: High School, and my son went to Portland. He went to school for a year and a half, more like that back then. That's when I became really interested in theater. By the way, we went to see the other ones there twice because he did two plays, as they say. Yeah, yeah, we went to see them.
Line 274	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Where he had everything there, we went to see him. One of them was this West Side Story, and then when he came out of La Mancha, Men from Maggie, it was also a... You know, and they weren't proud enough because he did a good job. Yeah.
Line 275	Patricia McDaniel: And it was like he is, or he carried most of it, or it was him. I mean, this.
Line 276	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: It wasn't in the sketch, as they call it now. There's nothing.
Line 277	Patricia McDaniel: New in Mexico.
Line 278	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No. Because you see how that one. That one, they made the Wesley Store very, very famous. There were two of them, like gangs, and well, and he was like one of six, another one from America.
Line 279	Patricia McDaniel: Well, in this story.
Line 280	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He went to the had quite a bit of fun. Yeah, very good with the take and.
Line 281	Patricia McDaniel: So he went to college, and his daughters were also studying at university? No. After graduation? No.
Line 282	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: My daughter. My daughter. The oldest, Anita. She didn't go. It wasn't just going to school. Because as I told you before, she graduated in May and July. They spoke to her. A lawyer who was working since then began working as a secretary for lawyers and. And like she worked twice in a bank also as a secretary and now she doesn't, well now she has her good job where
Line 283	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: all that for nothing.
Line 284	Patricia McDaniel: And the other one?
Line 285	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And my other friend, Sandy, this one. She went there for that too. But when she was in that school, she took up photography. She really liked photography and took classes and everything. And then Juan went to school, to college, there in Portland, because they told her she could study more. Regarding photography.
Line 286	Patricia McDaniel: In what? In which school?
Line 287	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: At Portland State. I think it was like that, and it wasn't just for about a year and a half. Why do I say, "She said no?" The classes they're giving me here, and I was already learning them at Nampa High School. Here. And she told them, "Well, I'm already here, I've been through this," she said. "I wanted to learn more."
Line 288	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And they told her, "One of the teachers there says he understands photography class." He said, "Well, if you want to learn more, much more about this, you have to go to a school in California. I don't know which school or where." And he didn't want to. He said, "No, because because of the money my daughter used to get to go like that, it's better to start working like that."
Line 289	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: First he started working on.
Line 290	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: When I was going to school, I worked part-time. Then I worked at Chachipen and then at. By then, she and her application had already said she wasn't going anymore, she didn't want to attend school anymore. So, she continued working there and applied for other jobs. But when I worked at the one where they make these computer chips, they didn't make them. Intel copied them. It's a very large plant that makes them, and it didn't start.
Line 291	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He was lucky he got a job there, he already has all those working.
Line 292	Patricia McDaniel: In.
Line 293	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: At Intel, he has been working there for about ten or 11 years.
Line 294	Patricia McDaniel: So the children go, they finish school and go to study outside of school.
Line 295	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And right now he's working here in the area, here where they also make things, right?
Line 296	Patricia McDaniel: And when they were very young, they had a good time, either at school or... And they didn't encounter any of the discrimination here.
Line 297	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, not that I know of, of course. I still believe that's still the case. But it's not going to A like it used to. But no, I don't, I never heard of them having that problem.
Line 298	Patricia McDaniel: They never talked about.
Line 299	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Not that, never. And I wondered, "Not like that." And no, well, these kids, uh, had very good friendships, let's say, with the older one, especially with Mexicans who are quite Mexican, and these two, not like Ricky. Sandy did have a Mexican friend, but they hung out more with American friends, which they all are good.
Line 300	Patricia McDaniel: Let's go all out.
Line 301	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes.
Line 302	Patricia McDaniel: Almost and also of those of.
Line 303	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: The Americans are also very good.
Line 304	Patricia McDaniel: And you and your husband encountered discrimination while living here in Idaho, or in Rupert, anywhere around here.
Line 305	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mmm well, when we because my in-laws is in April, well as I told you they bought that house, then yes I noticed that in restaurants here in other places they had, you know, they didn't bring in Mexicans, but then.
Line 306	Patricia McDaniel: And what did they do? Didn't they go to the restaurant that time?
Line 307	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, no, no, everyone had the one with that signature. But then, like in a community, my brother-in-law Paulino was the one who understood. He started gathering people, like this, as they call it, a contractor, to gather people to work on the farm. And that's how I met ranchers in a place like that, and they liked him, and many of them, instead of lounges.
Line 308	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And my husband says they went there once, they had a Christian sign there, not a Mexican one. By then, my brother-in-law already knew who was running the place there, and he tore it off the door and came in and lifted the bar. He said, "You don't need that." He said, "Here we are." What are you going to do? You're going to kick us out." He said, "No."
Line 309	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He said, "Look," he said, "The only reason we have that shit." Then there were a lot of braceros who told him that they call him now. And then Lilia, "Yeah," she said, "The reason why places like that were like that was what the guy told her." I don't know if the reason is true. I say that because, what's more, in the bars, like in the bars, many people said, they just started drinking and wanted to start a fight and they took out knives and guns and everything.
Line 310	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And we're afraid. That's why they started saying they weren't involved, but those who were there were Mexican-American. Sometimes, as they say now, they tell us Hispanic, well, born here, that they also had it here, and well, no, until finally they did something about it.
Line 311	Patricia McDaniel: So there was discrimination against braceros, but not against Mexicans. Mexican Americans who were born here in the States.
Line 312	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Because they knew them well. And I'll tell you, like in that place when they got to know my brother-in-law and my husband well, well, they didn't say anything to him, but there were always places where when many people came in, let's say they were from the other side, they always kicked them out because they were afraid they'd get drunk and start fights.
Line 313	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: and there were some who were not very good people, in others they were, but as they say, one takes it all.
Line 314	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, exactly, yes, exactly. That's what happens, and ugly isn't ugly. So. And there were no other places where they encountered discrimination, like in restaurants or bars. But, let's say, at the movies. Nothing. No.
Line 315	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: We went to the movies. No, they never said anything to us. Nothing. No.
Line 316	Patricia McDaniel: And here in Nampa there was a swimming pool and there was no discrimination in that.
Line 317	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And well, then, by the time I had my children, this one, more than a man, liked to keep pace, and not all of them mixed up, we'll see. No, he didn't say anything to them.
Line 318	Patricia McDaniel: And when you were in Vamos at the beginning, when you started buying a little house, did you encounter any problems in buying it?
Line 319	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, no, no, the little house, that was supposed to belong to a lawyer, and he introduced himself to my husband, and... And I don't know where they met. He told him he was looking at it. They were looking at buying a little house. And he said, "I have a rental on Southside, that was it," and I came. My husband just told me, "Go see it and see how it is because I was just starting out, I don't even remember where I was working."
Line 320	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: So.
Line 321	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, it was when he started working at the store. We were there before, a little bit before. No, no, I'm not lying. It wasn't at the store. It was at the barbershop where a product comes in. He worked there for a while, about two, like a month or two. Or when he got really sick, eh. And he said, "Go see her."
Line 322	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And it wasn't very small. They had about two small bedrooms, a living room, a kitchen, and a bathroom. But what I wanted was to have my own house. Yeah, yes and no, we didn't struggle. And then we were there in '69. So there was a Mexican family here, right? And those apartments weren't there. So one afternoon I looked through the window, because the kitchenette also passes by, and through the window, he told me that we were taking all the furniture out of here, out of the house.
Line 323	Patricia McDaniel: Is this house?
Line 324	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, this one's over at the courthouse, they tell you, just across the sidewalk there, and there were some Americans, there were two or three Americans, and I went to look for them later because they were taking out all their furniture. That's where the family came from. The man was a truck driver, he had a truck, and the whole family went to work on the farm.
Line 325	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: But it's not them and my husband put them in the store. I said, look, this is son, well, report it, he told you when the ladies come because we liked this place here, because on the corner he said when the ladies come, this man and the lady come, go, report it, he said let's see what happens. No? How so? Because they never greeted me at the window when they arrived and no, I already saw that it came to spite not coming down the window, his family and they stayed looking at all the furniture out there.
Line 326	Patricia McDaniel: And they left them?
Line 327	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, they just took them out. And then this one. Yeah. So what he did was throw them in the truck and I came, I came and spoke to the lady. Tovar is being held. The family. I said, "Look what happened." Look, they came, they had them. We took out the furniture and this. What happened? He said, "It's not that this gentleman said her husband fell behind on his payments."
Line 328	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah, and no, and they gave him a chance to pay, but after five payments they warned him that if he didn't pay they were going to throw him out. So what were they going to do? He said, "Well, let's see," he said, "Let's see where we have to look for another place over there," I said. "Look," I said, "Don't you want to give me the name of the owners because we're interested in places," and no, he did give me the name, they were some Americans, some old people, okay?"
Line 329	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He gave me their name and phone number. And no, I was the first. William, the wife. Well, talk to her, and no, no. Then I talked to her, and the lady answered. "Uh, you told her everything." We were in this and everything, and she started telling me the reason why they had done it, and the house was fine. They were renting this.
Line 330	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mhm. Huh? And he said, "Well, what time does your husband get off work?" It's about that time. I told him the time, and he said, "Well, we'll go in the afternoon," and no, well, since we were there, we started talking, and my husband said, "Well, if you give me a chance, I'll sell my little house here, I'll buy it from you."
Line 331	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And he said, well, he said, well, the Lord asked me how much, why do you want to sell so much? But well, if they give me one because the little house, as I told you, wasn't worth it. If you give me about 3,500, he said, I'll give it to you as a down payment on the campsite. And he said, well, he said, this is how we do it. He said he got this little house for 3,500 and then you just give me 3,000 in cash, in cost payments.
Line 332	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, if they do it, it's because it cost us like 7000.
Line 333	Patricia McDaniel: That's where they come in.
Line 334	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: House, but no, because we had to paint it and the carpet was another carpet, give it like two shampoos and it costs a lot of repairs.
Line 335	Patricia McDaniel: If not in in in the family when it was necessary they arrived.
Line 336	Patricia McDaniel: Getting One Three with María López. That was it.
Line 337	Patricia McDaniel: When it was. When it ended. The other tape is. We were just starting to talk about the process of making big decisions in this family. For example, when you bought a house, how you and your husband came to the decision together, or if it was who was in charge more.
Line 338	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or well, he always said, when we were going to buy, for example, the property here, we came to see it, and he said, well, he said, what do you think? Do you like this place, because we're going to have to fix it up, paint it. And he said, "No, you can't or no? No, it's not work, I think. And it's not going to cost us much." But he had to make six, nine, ten excuses, or nine, because everything was, well, exorbitant.
Line 339	Patricia McDaniel: But they arrived at the.
Line 340	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Decision to buy the one who bought both, the same when he was going to buy a car, he always put my name on the list, on the registration, even though I don't drive and But he says that because we were both there, yeah.
Line 341	Patricia McDaniel: And as for the work, let's discipline the children. Who was the one who was bad? I mean, that's what my father, the big boss, always says. As for disciplining the children, who was it you or your husband?
Line 342	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, in him, more so. But always this. As you say, I, or I, or I didn't have an opinion, right? Between the two of us. Or for example, when my oldest daughter started going out to dances and all that. She would ask me if they were going or not, the worst thing was when an American boy came. Even so, I went out to the house and he was almost killed by a car. I told her I wanted her at the house by a certain time and...
Line 343	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And my girl would go out, she had to do that hour of cleaning, otherwise the pig would struggle to get out. The same with the dances. And from then on, there were dances in the Caldwell countryside. A man was in charge of organizing those dances. He went to Boy Hernández's, and I told him, "No, I would take her." And a friend who lives in Pal Northside would take her boy, and he would tell me, "If you're going to the dance, Anita's going, if not, she's not going."
Line 344	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, I had to go too. And sometimes he stayed with the others in the house, let's say, with me. Then he only had Rick in the middle and he stayed with her. But he never, ever gave her a second thought, neither me nor him. We liked to give ourselves a lot of freedom, you know. Yeah.
Line 345	Patricia McDaniel: But it's always very different with a man. And it was different for the son. Yes, because...
Line 346	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He always has more freedom, let's say, to go out here with us. Naturally, when he left Hubremos, he went to school and then he went to California. So he was alone all the time and until, and then he came with an agreement and he was with us for a while and then. But because he started in a music group and he was everywhere.
Line 347	Patricia McDaniel: Like a band.
Line 348	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They were already walking.
Line 349	Patricia McDaniel: And the daughters, what did they think about having less freedom than their brothers?
Line 350	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, no, no, no. He didn't say anything. No.
Line 351	Patricia McDaniel: Mhm.
Line 352	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: She never had that one. That one. That one. Well, Anita. She really liked dancing, Mexican music. And there's Sandy, nothing. No, she didn't like any of that. She didn't go out for those dances or anything like that.
Line 353	Patricia McDaniel: He didn't even go to the Mexican, Mexican dances.
Line 354	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: She liked it a lot, and... But my husband told me, if you go with her, you'll take her, she'll go, and if not, she won't, because he didn't like her going alone. Yeah. And I couldn't say.
Line 355	Patricia McDaniel: If she went to ballet too.
Line 356	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They took her like this and this friend of mine took the ones they told us about, they took them every Saturday and...
Line 357	Patricia McDaniel: And was your spouse there too? Or not? To dance?
Line 358	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He didn't like dancing much. Neither did I. I wasn't. I wasn't a big fan of dancing, no, no.
Line 359	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah. The daughters had. Come on, a quinceañera. Like, when. When they turned 15, there was a party for you guys that... No.
Line 360	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I don't understand it. No, I don't know why, but no, no, but they didn't want to. It's this union of the two. No.
Line 361	Patricia McDaniel: So they don't say much spending. Does this spending better reflect what they're going to do?
Line 362	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Isn't it good for anything else? No, because I did like it. And I asked them both, and they didn't answer.
Line 363	Patricia McDaniel: They didn't want to.
Line 364	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Sandy less, I'm telling you. I wasn't really arguing with her about the dance anymore. But no, I didn't like it anymore. Uh-huh.
Line 365	Patricia McDaniel: There were other Mexican customs that they had here at home, as they observed here at home, for example, on Christmas Eve.
Line 366	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I put the author that my husband died, um, no, I didn't put a tree, no, because every year, well when I had my girl at home, I liked to buy a big tree and decorate it, they decorated it themselves. For a year, we would get together here at my house on Christmas Eve. I don't know. And or if they don't have a shirt. When they started buying their little house, they would change and now that my husband died these past two years.
Line 367	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, no, I better buy a small one and put it up there because no, it doesn't give me the courage or anything, because well, I'm alone here.
Line 368	Patricia McDaniel: But when the children were.
Line 369	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Oh yeah, they loved decorating it and. And then.
Line 370	Patricia McDaniel: And they also observed Christmas and Easter, and all in a Mexican way, or more like an American one.
Line 371	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Well, as an American, no Santa Claus happens. I still make tamales every year, and since I was here, I bring them from here on ashes. And do we get together sometimes, right? Last year I can't, this December, what happened? I can't come. My daughter, the one who's in town, doesn't, because every year she came and we all spent time together eating tamales, and my daughter invited her.
Line 372	Patricia McDaniel: And that he ate more.
Line 373	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: That Christmas Eve night, we just made tamales. And that was it. My daughter likes to make a lot of Perkins, like sweets and all that, and sweets, and she invited us to cook. Her husband has two brothers here. And they and their friends would come.
Line 374	Patricia McDaniel: So I found out where you learned to make it? Tamales at home. In peace?
Line 375	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah, over there with my mom or with my mom, huh? Back then, compared to how they do it now, my mom, and I remember she had a special bathroom for that.
Line 376	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 377	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No? Full of tamales cooking every year on Christmas Eve that made him famous, eh, No.
Line 378	Patricia McDaniel: So how did they make it? With what? With more than, for example, these, the tamales I know. It's made with more than this.
Line 379	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Of corn, of corn.
Line 380	Patricia McDaniel: Those days of also of corn.
Line 381	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Leaves.
Line 382	Patricia McDaniel: The leaves.
Line 383	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Corn husks too, but back then, up in the Valley of Texas, I noticed that my mom, well, in all the marquesas, they sold pig heads. And well, you know, my mom sewed them up and then she had a mill that made the ones she had, uh, really tasty. Yeah, I really did, and I made some food like that, or else I'd give it to the neighbors, and I'd give them all tamales.
Line 384	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Mhm. And in the new year that we're celebrating, these fritters have already been good to us. Quite a few fritters. Like that. So every year, let's say every day, like that. We had the habit of what was customary.
Line 385	Patricia McDaniel: And they also celebrated important days for Americans in this plaza. For example, on July 4th, you also celebrated Independence Day.
Line 386	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, yes, but no, not as much as here. This one, but.
Line 387	Patricia McDaniel: And on May 5th.
Line 388	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Also, no, no, we weren't going to go anymore, because there were a lot of parties and they scared us, either very medium-sized or very big, that we didn't like it, they didn't let us go anymore. Before, parents were very strict with us, mhm, eh. And so, no, we didn't go much, that's what it's about. And they said they let us go to the dance.
Line 389	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, not at all the dances, but at our wedding, as a daughter at a wedding, they invited us and we went to the dance because they had a party, we participated.
Line 390	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Weddings. I remember that in the courtyard, which we called the property of the house, there were no things like grass, which here to extract, it wasn't just dirt, so they decorated the courtyard with some kind of palm trees that made like arches. Everyone would decorate and put ribbons on them, and moreover, where the bride and groom would sit, very decorated, very pretty with flowers, and then it was pure orchestra music.
Line 391	Patricia McDaniel: And what kind of music did they play?
Line 392	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: No, no, no. There were no mariachis back then. Well, yes, there were mariachis, but not at a wedding like Vicente's. Another custom. Lots of mariachis. But back then, it was a music orchestra. Oldies who call it Sí.
Line 393	Patricia McDaniel: Also. And so they danced with that emotion. The orchestra's music was very good.
Line 394	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: I don't know, except when they mixed Mexican and American music.
Line 395	Patricia McDaniel: And they celebrated their daughters' weddings just as much. Oh, the, the, the, the youngest is getting married now, the one and the one.
Line 396	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Transforms the one that is in.
Line 397	Patricia McDaniel: House when he got married.
Line 398	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yes, a very good wedding theme.
Line 399	Patricia McDaniel: Here in Nampa
Line 400	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: They got married saying the. They got married in the Catholic Church and the reception was here at the American MHM. We made quite a bit of food and.
Line 401	Patricia McDaniel: And they made good food. You guys.
Line 402	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: And the dance?
Line 403	Patricia McDaniel: And what makes them serve as food?
Line 404	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Not tamales? No, but Mexican food like this. So my mother-in-law was a very, very good cook and... And the friends we had helped us in the kitchen. Uh? Well, they volunteered. A lot of volunteers. There was a lot of Mexican food. They served mole, stewed meat, rice, salads, and everything, a lot of food. And my daughter, well, I'll tell you, she worked with a lawyer, she had a lot of experience with the Mexican national team, and they came.
Line 405	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Voices with quite a bit of a lead. It's fine, everything looks very nice, and it's just the two of them who have to sort things out because by the time they got married, they'd been together for about three years. We decided to be boyfriend and girlfriend, so...
Line 406	Patricia McDaniel: With a...
Line 407	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: A Mexican and.
Line 408	Patricia McDaniel: A Mexican.
Line 409	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Yeah, yeah, we came here from birth and raised in ballet, right? And that's it. Well, when they got married, they bought their property, their little house, a little earlier.
Line 410	Patricia McDaniel: And they live here in Nampa.
Line 411	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Or if not now, they live in a different house now. They bought five acres and built a house there. Right?
Line 412	Patricia McDaniel: a fairly large piece of land.
Line 413	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: Five is where he wants it. He says yes, I'll sell here. I want him to buy a fair. He'll put it there because he has quite a lot of good space. Well, let's see how much he'll sell here. It'll be a mistake. I don't have time, I don't want his.
Line 414	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, yes, it's always a difficult step to take, changes, and then continue quite a bit because you don't.
Line 415	Maria (Mary) Rodríguez Lopez: He wants to, and neither do I. I want to be alone a lot longer because there's so much work for me, like the grass looks at my yard, and the boy still hasn't come with so much money.
Line 416	Patricia McDaniel: Well, all right, let's wrap this up for today.

Murillo, Thomas

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Line 1	Angela Luckey: The following is an interview with Mr. Thomas Murillo by Angela Luckey. The interview took place in Mr. Mario's home, seven Willow Wood Avenue, Pocatello, Idaho on May 13th, 1991. This interview is part of the Idaho Hispanic Oral History Project, so we can talk a little bit.
Line 2	Angela Luckey: Okay. All right. do you know why your family came to this country.
Line 3	Thomas Murillo: In 1917 or 1918? But I can't remember. I should have gotten in touch with my sister, but she as far as I know, she's still in California. And,
Line 4	Thomas Murillo: That's as close as I can come.
Line 5	Angela Luckey: And how did they come?
Line 6	Thomas Murillo: They came by, they started by a wagon pulled by mules and horses. I don't know which, open wagon. As I understand it, they went from Manolo to San Francisco del Rincon. They, took the train there. San Francisco, to Juarez and cross over to El Paso on foot. And, from there they, were loaded on to a train.
Line 7	Thomas Murillo: that was there. By, Richmond a few times, looking for workers to work in their fields up. And I'd also like, were hired there, loaded on the train. Claimed to but by train. That's the of travel to use.
Line 8	Angela Luckey: Do you know which train it was?
Line 9	Thomas Murillo: No, I have no idea. I'm sure there was a change of train somewhere. Because the rail personnel, I don't know, it's, maybe the Santa Fe and the Southern Pacific and they come up into this country. Must have come through, Denver and then, change trains. Come in. Was come here by the Pacific from Denver.
Line 10	Thomas Murillo: I traveled there myself during the war. That's the way I remember the trains.
Line 11	Angela Luckey: Was it difficult for them to immigrate at that time?
Line 12	Thomas Murillo: No, no. As I understand it, it was easy. Because, of the need for, workers in the fields who at that time, you know, actually, US was fighting in Europe, World War one and they needed, field workers as well as I'm sure in other, in other fields, they needed workers. And so, as today, it's, very convenient and cheap source of labor.
Line 13	Thomas Murillo: People of Mexico City.
Line 14	Thomas Murillo: So they experienced no difficulty that time. They didn't even have passports. They had, but they did have some kind of an entry paper that I've seen, with the pictures of the family and a stamp on it so that, it was probably pretty simple. By the time. and as I say. The same situation existed very well before World War One, as existed in World War Two.
Line 15	Thomas Murillo: They needed people, this country. Many people did to, work harvesting crops that put American people's food on the table. So it was it was convenient. And maybe it was made easier for they didn't apparently they didn't have quotas. And.
Line 16	Angela Luckey: do you remember your grandparents?
Line 17	Thomas Murillo: No, I never knew them at all. I have pictured my father's mother, and, that's. I've never seen a picture of my other grandparents. I remember when I remember that my mother's father died, when I was small, because I remember seeing the letter and notifications bordered in black. I guess that was the custom those days, but other.
Line 18	Thomas Murillo: But I did not know anything.
Line 19	Angela Luckey: Did anybody else come with the family when they came?
Line 20	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, I had an uncle. Joe and, cousin Nicholas, Nick. Do they come here? They came with family. There were young teenage guys at the time, and they're both dead now. But, those were the two came. That I know of. And I'm sure that's all the ones. Well, I mean, my sister, sister and two older brothers, of course, who?
Line 21	Angela Luckey: So your uncle lived with you during those times?
Line 22	Thomas Murillo: Both. Both my uncle and, my cousin lived with the ladies who lived,
Line 23	Thomas Murillo: In Mr. Curios household and and, you know, and moved a couple of houses over from, third, Nick was still living with those my uncles, still Great Lakes they lived with until he got married.
Line 24	Angela Luckey: And and so they all came to Idaho.
Line 25	Thomas Murillo: At that time? Yeah.
Line 26	Angela Luckey: first.
Line 27	Thomas Murillo: I'm, among all of them. Did I know I'm sure a lot of them. But my cousin Nick now, he, he got on in Wyoming sometime, and, lived with the family. And then he quickly joined in. But, yes, they all wound up in the same year. Well, thank you.
Line 28	Angela Luckey: We're saying that the very first time we came down Idaho.
Line 29	Thomas Murillo: To, Blackfoot, they came to Blackfoot, and from Blackfoot, they went to Aberdeen, and I guess from Aberdeen to Salt Lake, because they came here from Salt Lake. And no place around north.
Line 30	Angela Luckey: And you were born here?
Line 31	Thomas Murillo: Yeah.
Line 32	Angela Luckey: You know that after they went, right?
Line 33	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, yeah. I know they're born after they came from Salt Lake and Salt.
Line 34	Angela Luckey: what kind of work did your dad do?
Line 35	Thomas Murillo: He worked on the railroad. he had made two previous trips with the family still to Mexico. And, I only known him working on the railroad. his first trip took him into the Chicago area, and the second trip took him to the California. So cooking valley? Yeah, he he worked there. Now, he may have worked in the fields there, but, I don't know.
Line 36	Thomas Murillo: There's. Anyway, you go to the two places that he had worked, so, it's almost certain to be rewarded. Most of the time.
Line 37	Angela Luckey: You work that have work on the.
Line 38	Thomas Murillo: He was a laborer, and, he, he spent most of his railroad career here in cook, working for the Union Pacific in the stores department, as a, scraps or in the material yard.
Line 39	Angela Luckey: that when was that? During World War.
Line 40	Thomas Murillo: Well, no. No, he started back there. I'm not sure what year he started that, that to guess about the year before I was born. and,
Line 41	Thomas Murillo: Until he retired in 1964.
Line 42	Thomas Murillo: So he thinks that, been a part of 40 years doing what I.
Line 43	Angela Luckey: What is this craft? So you do. What is this? Graduating?
Line 44	Thomas Murillo: Well, they send in, used material. Well, he worked in a material yard. And among other things, they stored new materials such as new rails and stuff like that. And also there came their use material, which had to be sorted out as to what was usable and what was scrap. So that was what their, work consisted of.
Line 45	Angela Luckey: And then your mother, she stayed home.
Line 46	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, my mother had more than a handful, raising seven kids. And my father. So, you know, I know that's what it was. Anyway, it's too much about when why was going on and working and leaving the kids. Well, no, that's, that was unheard of in those days.
Line 47	Angela Luckey: Did your sisters go, stay with her? did they do some work or was.
Line 48	Thomas Murillo: Well, my older sister worked a lot. She, she worked out in a field with us. later on, after she got older, she worked as a maid for some people here in town. And also at, back hotel. So she worked very hard to. But my older sister, she, you know, she worked, when she graduated from high school.
Line 49	Thomas Murillo: Different places here. I mean, I remember she would be creches, but most of the time she worked at the hospital and later worked for some doctors.
Line 50	Thomas Murillo: In an office job, sometimes.
Line 51	Angela Luckey: So your brothers, worked.
Line 52	Thomas Murillo: Well, they, when all the brothers worked out in the fields and went to school. And later they in 1937, I went to work on the railroad at the freight house. And so they didn't have to work on the fields anymore. Would they got enough of that when they were younger? And it was very hard. And, eventually my oldest brother, sometime after my mother died, he left the railroad.
Line 53	Thomas Murillo: He studied mechanics after the war. Then, after I moved, gone to California. Right. He then pulled up states and went to California to work for the right track circulation. But my other older brother stayed here on the railroad. My youngest brother stayed on the railroad. But the in between brother between my youngest and me, Lewis. He also gone to school, aeronautical school in Oklahoma and became a meteorologist here.
Line 54	Thomas Murillo: And we left to the same day in 1956, he went to North Carolina, and I went to California, and he moved from, North Carolina. Well, he was working here not too far from my mother died, and then he went to North Carolina, and then he went to Arizona. And from Arizona, he went to El Paso.
Line 55	Angela Luckey: Why did your family come here?
Line 56	Thomas Murillo: Why did they come in? Well, we could, because my father had, become involved in the, in a matter of, that, the, the owner of la haceinda of that town, was built on, had in for my father because my father turned in there, too. Well, he claimed my older sister, he was.
Line 57	Thomas Murillo: And, he didn't like to work. and he liked to drink and gamble and, I guess, that it didn't go over too well with the that, guy that owned the town. And I seen that my name don't get moved beyond. And, very conveniently when once this is all green Revolution. It was the Bunny Brown Band.
Line 58	Thomas Murillo: The revolutionary came to the town and raised and raised the hell among the guy who was a friend of my father's. And somebody saw that guy. And after they left that we it reported on my friends. My father's friends had been in in that bunch of friends in the town so naturally followed. My father had been in cahoots with them.
Line 59	Thomas Murillo: So that was all that old guy needed to, have my father arrested, and he was thrown in jail. fortunately, that night before he was to be shot by another revolutionary band. Right. they open the doors in the jail, and my father got out, and he came to the United States, and that's where he went to the Chicago area.
Line 60	Thomas Murillo: And, he stayed a period of time. I don't know what kind of money, but he stayed a period of time. And then he went back to Mexico to see if it was safe to go back. And apparently it was not safe. So he came back to the United States, this time to to California. Then after a period of time, he went back again to see if it was safe for him.
Line 61	Thomas Murillo: And no, it was not safe for him. So that's what happened to the family. And it became the United States.
Line 62	Angela Luckey: At that time. Was was it your sisters then? How many family members came? Just your mom and your dad?
Line 63	Thomas Murillo: Well, one of the, the three kids, my oldest sister and my two older brothers and my uncle and my mother.
Line 64	Angela Luckey: But a bunch people.
Line 65	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, that was seven. Yeah, my brother were small. The one, those three. That was very close. I guess maybe a couple years old, you know, you know, probably, you.
Line 66	Angela Luckey: Know. So, when you worked out on the field, what did you live in that the farmer provide.
Line 67	Thomas Murillo: In, in that one year that I remember and I'm not sure what year it was, but in about 1929, we did live out on the farm on, Chubbuck Road.
Line 68	Thomas Murillo: And I don't know if it was the same year or the following year. We lived on farm where the Ordnance plant is located now. We lived there, and I, I'm pretty sure that it was two different years, but, I don't know what year they were, in relation to where the one on the farm moved shack to my house.
Line 69	Thomas Murillo: 20s to the house. but nowadays it's unbelievable. Yeah. I went last year with my niece. Sure. What it was. And because her mother, my old sister, was out there with us, and, the house over here, the ordnance plant is not I, I can't remember. The old house was like. But it was like living in a park because actually part of that farm was rented out as a picnic area.
Line 70	Thomas Murillo: So it was pretty nice out there. And, with couches, too. It was pretty good. I don't remember that. We built, That we were living in poverty because, I mean, we were supplied with milk and eggs for the farm and apples and things like that. My father took time off. He was still employed on the railroad.
Line 71	Thomas Murillo: He was really lucky because when the depression came, he he was laid off for a while, but not very long. And so when he wanted to take us up there, I guess there was a need for extra money. Of course. So he took, time off from around, I don't remember. They called it, it wasn't vacation, but, something happened.
Line 72	Thomas Murillo: They would go ahead and take us out there to work and when and, we came back and contracted job on the railroad. So, I, the conditions that I found in, in California when I went there, ammonia, ammonia field workers was not, nearly as good as the conditions that we were under here. in 1932, 1934, 1936, I worked in great outside of drinks in the fields.
Line 73	Thomas Murillo: And at that time, those people came from California. This was in the depths of the depression. They came from California to the Idaho to work so that, either there wasn't too much work at that time in California or the working conditions were better here than it was in that, Harriman versity Co. Those three years that I spent in good working old people paying, to work, work from, California, there was one Texas family, and, the rest of them were from Colorado.
Line 74	Thomas Murillo: and... and Idaho.
Line 75	Angela Luckey: From the braska.
Line 76	Thomas Murillo: No, I don't remember if there might have been, but I don't remember from Nebraska. but those states that I remember, yeah, I was family in Texas. So, people from Colorado with money, they called me from Utah and, and, Idaho and the, you know, the few families from here in Portland in 1932, about half dozen families going from here to there.
Line 77	Thomas Murillo: There were, several people, several families from the Idaho Falls area that were there, too, at that time, only where they were necessary. But they were 1932. Later on, some came to live here, and I found that they were born outside of Idaho. So it was probably the cause.
Line 78	Angela Luckey: whether very many Mexicans, Mexicans down here.
Line 79	Thomas Murillo: Well, I, I think, I think that at that time there were probably as many as there are now, but, I mean, the fact that they were able to organize, a social club, the.
Line 80	Thomas Murillo: Groups are. And I think it was called. Yeah. And they held, stage, presentations, and, and make dances.
Line 81	Thomas Murillo: for the six in September and the 5th of May. And people, you know, made speeches and there were musical, presentations. The people that played for the dancers who were all Mexican musicians from Porto. so, I'm, I make judgments. There were quite a few people who to support that kind of activity.
Line 82	Angela Luckey: That was in the 30s? That was in the 30s?
Line 83	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, the late 20s and the 30s. The 30s. It all ended when the depression came and so many were laid off on the road. And that broke it all up. But, in order to sustain that kind of social activity, there has to be, you know, quite a number of people to get a bang. For example, to play for our dances.
Line 84	Thomas Murillo: And, the speakers were all good speakers, as I can remember. You know, I was small. I was always zeroed in on that kind of stuff. And, yeah, they,
Line 85	Thomas Murillo: There were there were a considerable considerable number of people from Mexico around here. And they were at that time from southeast Mexico. we even had one year. We even had classes in Spanish. And, I heard in.
Line 86	Angela Luckey: School.
Line 87	Thomas Murillo: Well, I'm talking about.
Line 88	Angela Luckey: With this club.
Line 89	Thomas Murillo: Here. Yeah. and I went to it, I was the dummy. And I had always been able to spell real well in English. I remember that I had my troubles in, in Spanish, but, you know, I was only maybe 6 or 7 years old. Eight at the most. But, yeah, we had classes in Spanish.
Line 90	Angela Luckey: Taught them to,
Line 91	Thomas Murillo: I don't know who the man was. I, I kind of think my impression is the guy was just stay here for a short period of time. I know he wasn't one of the, permanent residents here.
Line 92	Thomas Murillo: But. So, again, you know, there there must have been a considerable number of those here to sustain that. Going back to this, you know, this story.
Line 93	Angela Luckey: Oh, yeah. great. They called me. Yeah.
Line 94	Thomas Murillo: Well, my father was, some type of officer of that club, because when they broke up, we wouldn't end up with a bunch of, books that were sent by the Mexican government. I still had one of them around the state. Right? I, I came too late to this, idea of saving and having books, having my own library.
Line 95	Thomas Murillo: So I won't be able to salvage one, no, two, two and,
Line 96	Angela Luckey: What kind of books?
Line 97	Thomas Murillo: Well, one of them is, kind of a primary reader, and the other one is a technical book on shooting, really just. I mean, I made it up, when I went to work on the moment that I'd be employed, one of the things that I, had to learn because nobody else wanted to do it was to mention my work.
Line 98	Thomas Murillo: And, here I couldn't, like, managed to keep this book in its own sheet metal sheet metal fabrication in Spanish. But interesting to me that I should have that damn book after my experience my job. but they were some of the others that I remember, kind of, it's not fair to call them propaganda from, any government puts out literature telling them the type of improvements and the advancements and things like that.
Line 99	Thomas Murillo: The one thing that I remember had to do was maybe agriculture or water preservation, something along that line. Those are the ones that I remember, the terror others.
Line 100	Angela Luckey: Those books that man that taught. Was he the one that brought those?
Line 101	Thomas Murillo: No, no, they were sent to the to that club. The crews are still on tours and they were blue cross translates as the Blue Cross.
Line 102	Angela Luckey: And your dad was one of the officers?
Line 103	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, yeah.
Line 104	Angela Luckey: Do you remember who was president? And then remember anyone who was present?
Line 105	Thomas Murillo: No, I don't, another man, very intelligent man. Management was the unknown. So he was one of the officers in the club, he's the only one that I can remember.
Line 106	Angela Luckey: Well, I Mexicans treated and, you in those days.
Line 107	Thomas Murillo: Well,
Line 108	Thomas Murillo: By and large, I think, there was, What, discrimination or prejudice that there was here wasn't too apparent because, We Mexicans socialized among ourselves, as I say, with social club. Like I mentioned, they made dances. And, there were always weddings and baptisms and even the, wakes for the funerals. What? They all were social activities.
Line 109	Thomas Murillo: And, for example, the dances. What the heck? I'm I'm a lover of music. And certainly we had the music to dance to, which meant that we didn't have to go, to, try and get into the, the watch, the dances where we were go out. Anyway, we knew that, but it didn't make any difference because what did we need from them in the way of social activities when we had our own, which were that is nice is there's, and food was served.
Line 110	Thomas Murillo: The Mexican food and the music was Mexican women were amazing. So what the hell did we need from them? But certainly the the discrimination prejudice existed in, in housing and jobs. yeah. I myself turned down for two jobs, told very explicitly because I was a Mexican. I couldn't have those jobs. refused entrance into the YMCA swimming pool, even though my father and all the rest of railroad employees contributed some, like a dollar or $2 a month to to, subsidy of that YMCA.
Line 111	Thomas Murillo: and, those kind of things. one of the one of the things I'm so funny to is even now, in 1932, when I went to drinks to pick peas, I remember the one one of the Mexicans basically dances on Saturday nights and drinks the Mexicans did. But I remember that the American girls would go to, you know, a little rather more of a community.
Line 112	Thomas Murillo: The girls would go, but they wouldn't dance with the Mexican, you see. They would dance with the Filipinos. There were always in those camps. The Filipinos came in California to see, and they always dressed real flashy, you know, and they always had news cars because maybe 4 or 5 guys would chip in by car. You could and they they were always dressed real fine, those guys.
Line 113	Thomas Murillo: And so the American girls would dance with them, they go in with vixens. And I thought it was funny or, you know, they weren't until, the latter years that I went to 1936, that they, you know, the, the assimilation began to take place because inevitably, the end of their pieces and why there would be at least one American girls and take off to California, the Mexican.
Line 114	Thomas Murillo: In 1930. Who's the movies come out to men and what the hell? Alone. You know, they, Looking back, I thought it was funny.
Line 115	Angela Luckey: Well, when you when your family was shopping, did. Where did they shop? I mean.
Line 116	Thomas Murillo: Well, we shop...,
Line 117	Thomas Murillo: The shopping, I remember, what the hell? J.C. Penney bought it. began here in this very white green room. I can move J.C. Penney from Myer. Is childhood. There was Mr. curious Store somehow or another. He's Italian. He. He glommed on the knowledge that, these people needed a special type of food.
Line 118	Thomas Murillo: items.
Line 119	Angela Luckey: Or imported Mexican.
Line 120	Thomas Murillo: Food. Yeah, yeah, because the only store in time after him. But he was knowledgeable about it. And, he, he made quite a bit of money from the white foods. I remember him delivering groceries from the dark place I'd been playing inside, searching for us. Conversation between the railroad and wooden fence all the way through. oh.
Line 121	Thomas Murillo: What? first street and, Clark began, then came all the way down here to, I was taught street, along the railroad yards and inside the fence. The Mexicans lived on those houses, from, wires to, land inside the real property. And, there was a row of houses, a row of apartments, I should say.
Line 122	Thomas Murillo: And, I think for families that was there. And at each end, there was on the south end, there was a big house and a couple of families, and then north and Black Road Farms that, a family lived there, and then a Greek guide. And then there was another small house north of that. Right. Close environment. So in there I was not sure when they are shopping at Mr. Shoe Store.
Line 123	Thomas Murillo: And so he had regular deliveries there. And I remember you had the first pick up truck that I can remember. All metal is one of the sons and helping to lady and the rest of them like the Eastland store and block store were very the only ones I remember that, I'm sure at least one story, how long this country was there on the east side, between first and second on Center Street.
Line 124	Thomas Murillo: So, they were going there and that was going back that far. And then during the my high school years, blocks where I had families to trade here. And Joey thing where one question time to go rest and retreat to. And then it was it happens you know, talking about the Mexican people here back in the 20s, for example, there was a.
Line 125	Thomas Murillo: There was a Juarez pool hall that was located on first and Lewis, across from the freight house. And there was, right across the street across Lewis. From the south side of Lewis was that row of that complex of wooden, rooms that was, the red light area and that was on the little side. And then on the Bonneville side of that block was this row of apartments.
Line 126	Thomas Murillo: That was all, was surrounded by battling Mexican guys. And, what I started to see right there, on the corner of the Juarez pool and going from that's the south and 100 block of South first, going back to Center Street, the men across and the street going north on the first, or there was a barbershop, which was next Mexican.
Line 127	Thomas Murillo: And,
Line 128	Thomas Murillo: I think. I'm not sure, but there might be a little Mexican restaurant. The bar is full of that restaurant. It was a pool hall restaurant to, since I was drinking prohibition. But,
Line 129	Thomas Murillo: There was no Mexicans in this town. At least sustain those two businesses.
Line 130	Angela Luckey: So most of the people traded for the other Mexicans. Traded in them?
Line 131	Thomas Murillo: Oh, yeah. Sure. So. Well, today, of course, that's that's not true in those days. It was a sense of they traded water, they were treated based and where they had where the stock, where the merchandise. It was slows maybe in their price range and, styles that they liked in particular.
Line 132	Thomas Murillo: But yes, I remember that Eastland store, it was clothing stores going there. Quite few.
Line 133	Angela Luckey: Somebody told me that. Yeah. You knew, or the Chinese... The Chinese that somebody seems to me somebody told me that you knew about the Chinese and.
Line 134	Thomas Murillo: Well, I know I know something about the Chinese and the Japanese. I was close to the to the Japanese, but. Yes, right there in that area, North first, where the fire company is now North first. And around the corner on center, there were several Chinese restaurants. and when I say seven, there might have been three.
Line 135	Thomas Murillo: But then farther across the alley on the center, going east on center, there was the Keystone Cafe, which was Chinese. And of course, showing you how to cook is still there. That's Chinese. And, I think there was one on South First. Chinese, probably between Phoenix and Juarez, but then on second, North second, there were Chinese.
Line 136	Thomas Murillo: In fact, there was there were quite a few Chinese moving. I remember them very well, quite a few Chinese. And then,
Line 137	Thomas Murillo: kitty corner from where all those guys were, was another bunch of Chinese. And in fact, when they tore down the because I think it called Flatiron Building, something like that, that Rosa's used to run along, Hotel Avenue, the 600 block, going north.
Line 138	Thomas Murillo: While the Chinese lived there, you know, brick building only they were torn down there. Used to get a big charge on looking, you know, other than that, tunnels that were in under those brick buildings. And of course, we were, from the spelling Fu Manchu time we could, you know, we could imagine all kinds of things going on.
Line 139	Thomas Murillo: Certain buildings, they, they stayed on into, right up to the world, up to World War two because they were running the lotteries, right there in that one building that was on call. Clark. And the second was to park in the second. So right up until, beginning of World War two, those guys were still in business there, and I had, I know I had one friend that worked, I think Keystone, Petco.
Line 140	Thomas Murillo: When he came, he came to tell you he had to go to school, go to school to buy a little school. And, I mean, he was a big us, but he didn't know how to learn how to speak, English. So, you know, he had started in first grade there. It was tiring for me and my my big mouth.
Line 141	Thomas Murillo: I used to think the black kids calling people, those guys chinks and ching ching chong or something like that. And I remember I opened my big mouth once and knew him, hit me up and nothing happened. But after that I learned several of the things that you didn't see, the like with the blacks too, you know, you learned very, very early that, you know, see certain things even if you are stupid and, yeah, leave it at.
Line 142	Thomas Murillo: Lee and I became good friends. yeah. And I guess because of the Keystone and the Shanghai's into the Chinese. guys, there in that area on the east side, I know my brother had a Chinese friend to, but, they, they were mostly here because of those restaurants, and there were no women. You know, that Exclusion act left them out.
Line 143	Thomas Murillo: And, although the Japanese, you know, they're Japanese girls and went to the Bombay school with us. I don't know how that came about, because the Exclusion Act was aimed at them, too. But, yeah, I had a lot of Japanese friends who.
Line 144	Angela Luckey: You say you were talking about. You went to bar, was cooking. Tell me about your school life and speak English when you went to school?
Line 145	Thomas Murillo: no, I doubt it, because, I guess I had to learn there, you know, I can't remember that far back, but I know what the heck. At home, we spoke Spanish much, my father. You see him saying that? No, no, you don't speak English in this house. You. You know, well, spoken like not in the house.
Line 146	Thomas Murillo: But when I went in my first grade, I had no idea how much. I couldn't know very much English if I had, you know, I was explosive because there are black kids around us and the Greeks and Italians. And so, in the Indian. So the French, so the so English was spoken in the neighborhood, but not not before I got into the Bible school.
Line 147	Thomas Murillo: it was more chances.
Line 148	Angela Luckey: Is that when you go to elementary school is.
Line 149	Thomas Murillo: Well, and, you know, the last year, which would have been, I think the fourth or fifth grade, we were, we were bussed. We were sent to Washington School because apparently the one school was filled. And so there we go. Bunch of Mexican kids and black kids and Chinese and Greek kids and the talented, oh, this great mix that have at the bottom.
Line 150	Thomas Murillo: You know, we had to go to Washington, Washington Lord and the lawyers and the college professors, doctors, kids went to school, I guess, were forced upon that school. And I remember Mrs. Cross called from the first saying she didn't was the first, and we were not welcome. And, it was talk about culture shock and, it was,
Line 151	Thomas Murillo: It was pretty rough first, but, I love that. And I cannot be get pretty good grades in the Kaiser Chiefs, talk. And so she, I think she would lose favor on me. She wouldn't. She wouldn't, as hostile to me as she was the rest of guys, I, you know, I found out that, you know, that one of the schools, really, these are the mixture, nationalities and and, you Asian colors and all that stuff.
Line 152	Thomas Murillo: I know this is unusual for this country, after all. This is more of a country. And at that time, more we were all white. And, here we were that that school over there was just about anything was being, and, it was so unusual when Mr. Spring's principal put together a radio program. Musical. Everybody, everybody that this the same song in your country that they or their parents couldn't afford the key.
Line 153	Thomas Murillo: Not quite popular. You go around from. Civic clubs to churches putting on that program. So it was highly unusual.
Line 154	Angela Luckey: Did you sing a song?
Line 155	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. from my mama. Mama and I. It is dead now, we say. Right, the song. I don't remember what it was. And, Socorro. Ernestine. Mildred, Socorro was, more yellow here. and they sang this song. No, she just sang a song by herself. So, I don't I don't it was supposed to represent Spanish.
Line 156	Angela Luckey: Was called the by, not.
Line 157	Thomas Murillo: and, you know, kids sang in Japanese and Chinese and German. And also going with, but that was, that was indicative of what an unusual school at that part. There were, I don't remember any incidents of, racial problems, with the exception of one time guy told me that I couldn't drink out of the farm water, and the other kids were drinking because I'm Mexican, but, I, I to remember he was an older guy.
Line 158	Thomas Murillo: What he was doing on the school grounds would be on me, and I think he was trying to be smarter about that. But certainly in that school, you know, I saw no distinction at all made by the teachers. I think there was quite unusual also that those teachers should be so, very minor. After all, it was not common to have that many, different kids.
Line 159	Thomas Murillo: Of people of any kind in one school in this area here. Because and, yeah, I, I certainly remember that, the Mrs. Woods. Mrs... Woods out a great big gold wedding band, and boy, we used to don't like to class. She'd come down and she would, monkey on the head with that thing. I used to a few ways.
Line 160	Thomas Murillo: A very going through my head. But you. I mean, there was no, there was no favoritism in a group class if you misbehaved, didn't matter. What the hell you were. As far as the skin when she laid that attitude and she taught this, I think she taught everybody in my in my family, including, you know, the sister, because she was very close to very well-liked lady.
Line 161	Angela Luckey: She knew. Where did you go in the high school.
Line 162	Thomas Murillo: Hotel High school. That's the other way to do that was quite community experience, I think. I suppose everybody but, there were only two, two of these Mexicans in that class that I was interested in a steamer in. I graduated same class. Again, there was, Well, I'd seen her in the seniors pictures in my yearbook of her being a member of a couple of, organizations.
Line 163	Thomas Murillo: I belonged to them that way to the state. and, so I, a few as, as I had, take part in the social, in many social activities, and I, tried, football, but I was too small. I get the hell out of me, or I don't feel I still have that because I'm Marshall Bogan hiding from the group, and I'm sure he spent a whole year playing because of it.
Line 164	Thomas Murillo: And now, in 1981, it finally flared up on you and covered in a lot of pain. But, I, and as I said, I weighed 127 pounds in my senior year, and I, I couldn't do, I couldn't do as well as I would like to in, football anyway. But I took part in criminal sports. They had the social activities, of course.
Line 165	Thomas Murillo: Like, almost. I was a part of, I was, I suppose I was living a dual life then, just like I did later, and I did with it. Heck, you know, during the day, I was a student with all the virtues. And after school. All right, became. Excuse me. That's what it was. because through my, high school, I didn't, I didn't cross the street.
Line 166	Thomas Murillo: I didn't automatically draw a line. You know, the Mexicans.
Line 167	Angela Luckey: You.
Line 168	Thomas Murillo: Whites. I had quite a few white friends. only one of them was social. I was still in school House, but the rest of them, I didn't know, and then I. I was not an outcast. So I had a lot of friends with the most guys. This guy. Hello, Steve Bachelor who who is a justice Supreme Court good friend.
Line 169	Thomas Murillo: You know, even after, after.
Line 170	Thomas Murillo: That he was always very friendly. well, he had reason to, like, saved you from getting his blood, but, like a guy who's going slugging had to come by. And I was a friend of the guy that was going to slowly. He's a big guy. And one of those rough roughnecks. You know, Steve was about to be a, fighter.
Line 171	Thomas Murillo: Anyway, I to talk the guy out of. Fighting with Steve. And so after that, you know Steve, of many people who were good friends over the last 40, but, the. No, I was not a part of the social activities of who did I speak at all? Because, you know.
Line 172	Angela Luckey: I go to a number with this. Mexican kids had opportunities to hold officers and I cheerleaders.
Line 173	Thomas Murillo: And it's, at that time, I can't.
Line 174	Thomas Murillo: I can't say that because I'm problem. There's only two of us there now. I think that, let's see. Junior third. I was a freshman. I, they were all sophomores. I don't remember any, I don't remember any in the junior class. So there were so few of us that, it, it, I, I, I don't.
Line 175	Thomas Murillo: We would have had have been outstanding, too. Well, can't have been, thank you very much. I think there was no real barrier to to becoming, you know, sort of, a school. Class officer. But, as I say, I don't think there's any barrier insofar as you can distinguish in process. I don't think it was there.
Line 176	Thomas Murillo: there were Japanese were certainly very highly I mean, very intelligent kids. And I went to school with the Japanese and I think only later were they.
Line 177	Thomas Murillo: The girls were very shy Japanese, girls were shy. So I can remember that. Anyway, those guys held any office in high school.
Line 178	Angela Luckey: And did you go to college?
Line 179	Thomas Murillo: I went to college after the war. After I finished my apprenticeship, when I decided to try for a, engineering degree and, I did it by, going to by working at night before to 12 shift and going to school in the day. And, I was only ten for two semesters, and the, not, not sure.
Line 180	Thomas Murillo: at the time of working in that year, I had to go back to work in days. And so I, had to drop out and it was two semesters.
Line 181	Thomas Murillo: And after that, I'm just going. I find it a job someplace where I could continue my education. And, I, Announced plans going closed, so I knew I had to leave town or do it. And, I came up with the idea of going to work for the government. I was already working for the government in Spain, for the Air force, and and they were building bases and,
Line 182	Thomas Murillo: I also trained to get a job because, and, the fourth choice I had was to go to California. Well, Los Alamos, they kept putting me off and put me off, and they said they would try and get me a job.
Line 183	Angela Luckey: And you care for cook? Cook? Yeah, I got a point. I considered counsel. I'm going to go get this, because that way, you know, these kids go in those trucks going boom, boom. Well, look at you, Miss Smarty. Did she say you get scared by her?
Line 184	Thomas Murillo: You know her. She doesn't.
Line 185	Angela Luckey: She think everybody loves her.
Line 186	Thomas Murillo: So I, I tried trying to get on with the Air Force on the hill field. You know, I didn't. And I said, no, everybody wants to go to Spain to work for them. And, besides that, they needed political connections. I hadn't the Navy. So if you got to know somebody, you go a politician. Well, door shake and another guy, they were.
Line 187	Thomas Murillo: I mean, I wasn't political enough time for them to loan me. And, I was a Democrat anyway, they were Republican. So anyway, I did get to go to Spain. 40 of the one of them was almost never did at Columbia. So I went California because once the Los Angeles area first. Yeah. And the place that I put was just after the war as a machinist.
Line 188	Thomas Murillo: I'd already graduated from the French school here, but, I'd already contacted it. I'd be in, recruiter by phone. He wasn't going to. He was in Salt Lake at the time. And, so he sent me a application, and I told him to look out for you. So, you know, if you could send where you stop and talk to me.
Line 189	Thomas Murillo: So. I did, after I left Los Angeles. San Jose. And by luck, I, we checked in the hotel. It was just a block from IBM.
Line 190	Thomas Murillo: Development, branch of IBM. And, we've been up all night. I decided not to go to bed and go ahead and with the first thing. So they opened up the meeting, but it was over seven. So I went over there and, yeah, they were already opened it. They sent me the personnel that time, IBM scattered all over, so they sent me on personnel or by we're lucky that their personal life would be nice.
Line 191	Thomas Murillo: And they were hiring machines and they said no. So I started to walk out of there and a lady called me back and asked me if I worked on machines like blades and Miller machines. I told her, yeah, said, would you like to try for a model maker? And I said, well, I'm not sure I know what model makers do, but they worked on that.
Line 192	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. What do you think? She raises an interview with me with a guy there in personnel, and they arranged for three other interviews in different parts of town. Then they told me they were getting in touch with me, but I had a peek at one of the papers, one of the guys inside saying that they recommended that I'd be hired.
Line 193	Thomas Murillo: So yeah, I came back in, but, we've got a letter from me telling me that.
Line 194	Unknown: They want me to go to work with.
Line 195	Thomas Murillo: So that's why I haven't been to, Go to work with IBM. And actually, it was, she's the one that, maybe soon because I want to work in OAC. I've been in Italy during the these, I thought I was on the heavy up there. I just liked it. It was different than it is now.
Line 196	Thomas Murillo: Oh, my God. Restaurants. All kind of Mexican restaurants on the East Side with all that great food. Oh, and music and dances and the beautiful girls. I don't know the place, but when it came time, I. She didn't like it, so she she made a decision that we should go to San Jose. So that's how we wound up.
Line 197	Thomas Murillo: Is it was a great decision. We made it through a big difference in my life.
Line 198	Angela Luckey: What does the model making.
Line 199	Thomas Murillo: A money maker is just a, a machinist who, who differs only in that he has to be able to make parts with, a form, a blueprint for drawing. a, he has a moment for us to be able to make parts just by oral instructions or just with a sketch. And, there's a reason for that.
Line 200	Thomas Murillo: Don't. Because, they only have them and, research and development, they don't have to be manufactured in manufacturing and come to makers of machines. You see. but in the model show, there the word model in that case means that you're making the first part. The model part. They don't know if it's going to work or not.
Line 201	Thomas Murillo: whatever mechanism it's going to be used in. So that's why they use the word model. And now other than that, the same machines, everything is the same. The. But, as you go along, you soon learn that the other difference is, the existing, that you have to be able to respond, real fast to, the engineers needs you.
Line 202	Thomas Murillo: as a moment. You you work on a team of teams composed of, a couple of engineers and an electronics technician and the, design at that point. And, whatever they decide that they need to meet, they need to be made. that's what you therefore go through, select the material, but then you, make it so that so it, it requires, accuracy, beyond which I was used to working, over here and, didn't have the blueprint to study to see how you make it.
Line 203	Thomas Murillo: So it, and I had the least amount of, that was experienced when I went. And so it was, it was really tough on me. I never had an opportunity for machining, but even here, as an apprentice, I, apprentice machinist, it was only another guy, and I didn't really know what we're doing the day we walked in there.
Line 204	Thomas Murillo: I know the first day I was going to report for work as an apprentice. My father asked me what I was going to do, and I couldn't tell you. I didn't know when. This idea, on the other hand, the other 58 guys, they all had done some kind of machine, whether in services or on the railroads here. You see, they might have been machinists helpers.
Line 205	Thomas Murillo: This Mexican guy. Well, he had...
Line 206	Thomas Murillo: but, he noticed that he wasn't really one. So he, he walked back to the beginning as an apprentice. And, I, I struggled all through the friendship, just because I just didn't have a knack for it. But the thing that came through it was a real good apprenticeship. We were three weeks of every month in the shop, and one week of the month we spent in the classroom or upstairs and in the classroom.
Line 207	Thomas Murillo: We studied drafting, shop man.
Line 208	Thomas Murillo: history, English. Because I forget the other. So anyway, I did very well in the first room, so, I, I made it through because of that. We'll see. But otherwise, I like we having real problems compared to those other guys who, you know, are working against guys that already before the war had worked, you know, so I just picked it up, in the Army of the Navy, most of our, Muslim Navy, the Air Force, because they were so technically oriented.
Line 209	Thomas Murillo: So I had I had a tough time there. And then I go to work like the Army, that most often they're all hotshots. They're. So I was up against the beginning of you on again. you know, they they seemed to. Okay, well, when the guys with my management group told me once that they feel better when I went through, we were.
Line 210	Thomas Murillo: You never hired me later on until I, he told me once that I was never going to be the best model. And he said, you know, then that they got my book. Great. Hell yeah. And they did. Yeah. You know, you are very impressed by the fact that I was very calculation. None of the risk, high reward.
Line 211	Thomas Murillo: So that that's the worst way.
Line 212	Angela Luckey: How do you feel about education?
Line 213	Thomas Murillo: Well, I would feel very strongly about education. I, I mean, it's, I think it's, to me, it's, real ideal to me, kids. But when I say educated, I don't mean if you just get a degree from the university like that doesn't mean you have to go, I mean, I like, I like, liberal arts education, very technical typesetting.
Line 214	Thomas Murillo: Thank you very much. Because, after spending, you know, 21 years in engineering, I'm not, 20 years in engineering. I know how badly those guys need to get in touch with people. And and, I mean, when you when you consider that they don't have to even have a good knowledge, working knowledge, you things, language, you know, to be useful, to be able to write it on a line, let alone a paragraph that knows what to do in there.
Line 215	Thomas Murillo: I have to write a paper. Well, I know what they do. That one guy, I wrote his paper for 100 a month on thing, and here he was a senior, in, San Jose State going through degree in electrical engineering later on. I mean, I did a lot of technical writing for them. It was too hard to try and work from your from,
Line 216	Thomas Murillo: Stuff that those other engineers had written. They just, you know, I mean, I know from my experience here, I, I for, I know how, how hard it is for people, for a guy that's been high school 13 years. And to get the second highest grade on the entrance examination over here. But, you know, you know, there's, there's a lot of guys with lower grades than you.
Line 217	Thomas Murillo: That shouldn't be that way. And. Yeah, when you. We took the entrance examination, English entrance examination over here in our apprenticeship program that we trained. At what level? When we took English, I got the highest grade, the two classes. Very. And so, you see, it's there was a lot of people with a lot of training with the agreement with, are not, to my mind, they're not really educated, I think.
Line 218	Thomas Murillo: Well, they're, they're going to be engineers and that's all just they're going to make money. They're going to be wheels. And, I don't I don't think too much. Right. I think engineers, if they're that smart, should be, should know something about the outside world.
Line 219	Thomas Murillo: Rather than just bringing home a big paycheck. And that's the vegetation. Yeah. But I also feel training for those who don't, who are not really, attuned to to the college, like, it has to be more put on that because you don't have to be a college graduate to make good money. for in order to, to live in this country, they pick, I mean, after all these entitlement programs came to pass because of the civil rights movement.
Line 220	Thomas Murillo: And I know a lot of the brothers there. And so they're running around with three pieces with a degree in their hand, and they make payments as far as, wages. But they, you know, looks good. I mean, we could be walking down First Street and so they with the three piece suit in the middle of the day and, everybody knows you, you have an office job, but, is the pay money isn't everything either, but that we have to earn our 13.
Line 221	Thomas Murillo: And the reason, I don't you think I did okay, but not getting a degree. They, you know, I didn't get a degree and better, I, I think that, well, I grew up, I did as well as a lot of the guys with degrees there. I could I could have done, I don't say better because that's what the, what I'm talking about in most places, becoming managers supposed to be, you know, that's,
Line 222	Thomas Murillo: And I didn't care for that. I absolutely didn't, after I learned what what they had to go through, you know. No, I was. I was only you. I always a lot of people knew that. A lot of people thought I was stupid quick. A lot of people knew what I had done myself for, you know, proven favor by staying out of.
Line 223	Thomas Murillo: I was off the job. It wasn't. It wasn't for me. I wouldn't have lasted 24 hours. Manager, if I didn't have the I didn't have the skill to work for it. You know, you're happy. You're still come over. I didn't stay right.
Line 224	Angela Luckey: Back to your family. I just want to know a little bit about the relationship of the family. Was, who was the boss and who did the discipline.
Line 225	Thomas Murillo: Oh, my mother, my mother. She knew about us, and she sure discipline me. And so I had to go. I don't know about her disciplining her. My older brother and, certainly me and, I'm sure my younger brothers, although I've never been married, being disciplined and I'm sure they were, I knew that I wanted my baby.
Line 226	Thomas Murillo: I mean, I recognized that the reason I was because of probably you pretty, you know, there's no question that I was an angel. I wasn't, I mean, I wouldn't, a thief or I was a drunkard or, God forbid, a little part of the community. People just didn't do that for me. But it was good that there wasn't that kind of stuff or.
Line 227	Thomas Murillo: I remember in high school, guy used to go to school with. He'd come by, we go to school, got it. And we thought we had a place. We were the Chinese got it lived and we smoke a cigaret. You. When I was, we were running for position through the sale because of that, so, but, no, my, my mother and father were, I suppose, moderately strict.
Line 228	Thomas Murillo: And so, there were certain things that I was not allowed to religious. They after 10:00 and, I always let them know where I would be going. And when I didn't do that, then I knew I was in for.
Line 229	Angela Luckey: The, the different, curfews for the girls.
Line 230	Thomas Murillo: Well, my, I don't remember that. See, my older sister was up. I mean, she's quite a bit older. She was born in about 19. 70. And that would be about 15 years for me. See, so I didn't know about that, and I wasn't around on my own. Sister was in here to school out and in the Army.
Line 231	Thomas Murillo: I don't remember that kind of stuff, but, things were a whole lot different than that. suited or faced with those. Other things that, you know, women are faced with the. When we talk about drugs, abortion, like I said, that that kind of stuff was going on there.
Line 232	Angela Luckey: So your mom, did you go with your, you know, if she went with your sisters on their dates or whatever?
Line 233	Thomas Murillo: Oh, no. oh, no. I mean, dating with another matter, too, you know? And then you didn't, I mean, all the cases that I can remember, I remember one guy left some flowers at our doorstep. Front doorstep. I don't know who he was. I usually like my little sister, but, You know, so many cases, there were girls in order to get married and had to elope with the guys.
Line 234	Thomas Murillo: You know? Sure. Okay. and, that's true, sir, that they did a couple of on studies girls did. It was just that way.
Line 235	Angela Luckey: They didn't come and ask for their history. Anything.
Line 236	Thomas Murillo: No, because the father was so interested in, you know, really like his own studies, girls that my, my grandfather lives in, You know, they, you know, he had a local school like this, but he told me once one time they were I think there were three of them, and they were crazy. Back in the ward in front of the girls, I was home.
Line 237	Thomas Murillo: They would, you know, make sure they're on character, real someone else. And, this night, you know, we sent them through the dark, emerged first room service with a gun. Ask them what their business. The business they had to, get lost or you. You know, that kind of boom was.
Line 238	Angela Luckey: Is Henry Gonzalez. Is there.
Line 239	Thomas Murillo: Anything. So this is grandfather, you know, quite. Yeah.
Line 240	Angela Luckey: It's emotional. I love them.
Line 241	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. Hell, yeah. Most of them. Okay. Go ahead. Yes. Okay. Oh, I remember when my older sister told my mother she was going to get married. Oh, my God, my. Oh, And I remember when my uncle and I are going to go those. Girl. Oh, my God, my mother just threw up with. That's the way it was in those days, you understand?
Line 242	Angela Luckey: Why did she do. Why did she get so upset?
Line 243	Thomas Murillo: She like the family he was marrying through, And, I have no idea why Mister said it. convicted to, Okay. rest or getting married? I don't, you know, you don't know about those things. It's, it's with my, I know with my uncle that, my mother didn't like the the his family because they they've always been these people that traffic you.
Line 244	Thomas Murillo: Now. We do area story order. I'm kind of stuck pins those records, but, my mother just didn't go for that. her brain was going to marry with them, Yeah, but you said it could have been I. I have no idea where the certain subject to my, godfather marry Esther. But the fact remains, that's where he was.
Line 245	Thomas Murillo: And so they had to elope. Andrew Hurley, I think, you know, I understand why they wanted to marry so. So, felt he was wanting to. And he was one of the, Well, just say good time, boys. Yeah. Yeah, he like it the good times. But, you know that that's the way people were at that time.
Line 246	Thomas Murillo: They brought her up in Mexico with the help of different New Mexico. or it wouldn't be in that way here.
Line 247	Angela Luckey: So at what age did you leave your home?
Line 248	Thomas Murillo: Well.
Line 249	Angela Luckey: And what did you leave home?
Line 250	Thomas Murillo: Oh 31.
Line 251	Angela Luckey: And why did you leave?
Line 252	Thomas Murillo: Because I was going to get married. Because I got married.
Line 253	Thomas Murillo: Oh, my mother was, I don't I don't consider that you to me, but she didn't want to leave home, and that's all there was to.
Line 254	Angela Luckey: You know, so you could leave home until you were getting married. Boys or girls?
Line 255	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, well, it was done in those days. who and the hell I ever heard of a guy? We could. We graduated from high school going off to little guy. And so I don't remember that happening. It was always when we got married in that home.
Line 256	Angela Luckey: Did your family bring any traditions, any Mexican traditions when they came? Were there any traditions that you kept? well, some turkey.
Line 257	Thomas Murillo: I'm talking about some of them right now. They know the the way you conducted yourself. Yeah, towards your parents and what they expected of you and what you did as per their, requirements.
Line 258	Thomas Murillo: Well, for example, my, my father was helping them education. And just even though, you know, my older brother spent most of a lot of him when they should have been in school. So spending or not working in the wheat fields and potato fields and one so Carver saw over in the school, they went to see and I think that that was handed down to him because it's like he was a bookworm and I became a bookworm.
Line 259	Thomas Murillo: My daughter and, the three others of my brothers that are bookworms. Now, I don't say that's the condition, but it's something that. Sure. Yeah. Heck, what's it done? I mean, they're one heck of a lot of people in this town. One in Lexington. I don't read a book. I've never read.
Line 260	Angela Luckey: Where there any kind of special celebrations and things that they that your family do.
Line 261	Thomas Murillo: No, no, no, I, I think,
Line 262	Thomas Murillo: I think this idea was not, didn't become, popular until maybe the Texans came here. Those ideas came into our near us, and God knows what else they they celebrated and, oh. Personally, it was my own idea, in case you ever heard us. we're not right. Sure, because I don't like people. All these people that were here before the Texans, they all came from my school.
Line 263	Thomas Murillo: I never heard of thing where I first heard some of them about the Texans. And so those kind of traditions are, They should have come with our parents. We may we should.
Line 264	Angela Luckey: Do it on. oh.
Line 265	Thomas Murillo: It should have showed up long before the Texans got here. Would never, never show here. So those kind of things, have, let's say, been acquired by the Mexican people here since these other people came up. And, when you read this, well, what the heck? baptism in the Catholic Church.
Line 266	Angela Luckey: and that.
Line 267	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. Oh, I would say so. And, first communion parties for that and, and confirmation work wonderfully. so they are willing.
Line 268	Angela Luckey: To work.
Line 269	Thomas Murillo: In our church. I don't know why those kind, it is like the Quaresma, the, We call.
Line 270	Angela Luckey: That.
Line 271	Thomas Murillo: Land. Yes. That was very much a part of.
Line 272	Angela Luckey: Did your mother did your mother cook special foods around labor?
Line 273	Thomas Murillo: Believe you? Oh, yes. my mother was just a great cook. her my mother.
Line 274	Angela Luckey: Left us.
Line 275	Thomas Murillo: This bakery. Mexican bread. Yeah. I never knew nobody in California. Did I ever find my bread like you? And there are people here that still remember my father. when he owned bakery? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And and, of course, because of that, on the way back to the university, he would, wait, he would be hired to.
Line 276	Angela Luckey: Cherry.
Line 277	Thomas Murillo: Make the, breadfruit.
Line 278	Angela Luckey: What kind of foods that your mother looked like during that.
Line 279	Thomas Murillo: we were in Texas. I remember shrimp.
Line 280	Angela Luckey: One of that. That in Puerto.
Line 281	Thomas Murillo: You know, where we would. It might have been, you know. Yeah, I know fruit, because I remember to do taste good. but. That's what it might have been feasible. Yeah, but the only thing I remember, my dad was like, you know that shrimp?
Line 282	Angela Luckey: How about the copy that that.
Line 283	Thomas Murillo: Your hand is copy of? That's right there.
Line 284	Angela Luckey: I was in California and Christmas. Did she cook any special things for Christmas?
Line 285	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. well, the the special thing came out this year.
Line 286	Angela Luckey: Did everybody get involved?
Line 287	Thomas Murillo: And then later voted to prohibit the grinders? or you grounded the corn.
Line 288	Angela Luckey: You grounded for around here?
Line 289	Thomas Murillo: Yes, yes, yes. And then that went right on right up to Pearl Harbor.
Line 290	Angela Luckey: Where did you grind it up?
Line 291	Thomas Murillo: Well, the mill was attached to the edge of the table. Part of the corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was tradition.
Line 292	Angela Luckey: So she didn't do it on the.
Line 293	Thomas Murillo: I don't remember her doing that.
Line 294	Angela Luckey: You know, she used to like a meat grinder or something like that, but it was, grain grinder.
Line 295	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, I guess so. I mean, every Mexican family had its, Yeah. You know, I hunters, those who started the carryover items.
Line 296	Angela Luckey: But, you know, so the guys were in charge of meeting.
Line 297	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, well, the young guys, kids hit you. Oh, yeah. Yeah I remember, yeah, I remember that day in Pearl Harbor that, there was a for some reason they were playing golf on this or that. That sounds like fruit. This family lived in, with some guys. We went.
Line 298	Angela Luckey: I.
Line 299	Thomas Murillo: That instead of doing it that way.
Line 300	Unknown: But. Yeah. You know, man, I.
Line 301	Thomas Murillo: Was your father.
Line 302	Angela Luckey: Was growing up. Was it like a party when you do that?
Line 303	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. Yeah. That, that always involved in the party. but, because the young people involved that didn't involve, you know, drinking that kind of, mostly based on food or other food, for example. Families here use pork a lot, and the more they. And so it involved cooking all that stuff before.
Line 304	Thomas Murillo: And and it was, yeah, it was, You couldn't call it, you know, for the party who was involved in food, but because the older people, the older guys were not in the. Well, they didn't it didn't you didn't include drinking.
Line 305	Angela Luckey: how did you meet your wife?
Line 306	Thomas Murillo: while I was over there drinking beer in that bar where she is a cocktail waitress. She could bring me beer. I mean, we we kept her in beer. And so, because I am a man. Because men are that way, would eventually start noticing who's serving beer. She. She's quite good looking, but she was very. And so we started going out together.
Line 307	Thomas Murillo: And that's how we became. We.
Line 308	Angela Luckey: Fit in. can you describe your wedding? Did you elope?
Line 309	Thomas Murillo: I don't know if you call it love. I suppose it was. Yeah. we took a cousin of mine, my cousin Nick's daughter, named Gloria, to, a guy that she running around this time. We went to a place to get married. Maybe I want to in there because the my being restaurant and,
Line 310	Thomas Murillo: Then somebody spoke up and said, well, listen part Spanish. And so because of that, they to that that married. But, as you well know, Spanish is not my. Is not a part of my person in that. And and, claim to be Spanish. I know, most of the family, Mexican, as you know, that's one thing you have to pick up on that, probably because of that kind of business that, became, dyed in the wool Mexican.
Line 311	Thomas Murillo: I will not change just because they wanted me to be something else and never had one. I was just going to go to school, I guess because I was a Mexican. I'm not going to change that. So that hopefully they won't discriminate this bunch of crap. And I've done I think I'm doing okay by being embarrassed good and bad.
Line 312	Thomas Murillo: I've had my good times too, because I am now and I like myself because of that.
Line 313	Angela Luckey: And your parents, you know, same way. Did your parents feel the same way?
Line 314	Thomas Murillo: What? But they might.
Line 315	Angela Luckey: Be.
Line 316	Thomas Murillo: Mexican. Oh, yeah. yeah. My father never did take up citizenship, neither to my mother, you know?
Line 317	Angela Luckey: How about you show your child?
Line 318	Thomas Murillo: Oh. My daughter. I when she was in high school, she didn't. She was like, big Mexican. But afterwards, she she picked up on today. Yeah, she's. I guess. You bet I. But, you know, take on trips to Mexico. So she's become acquainted with the Mexican culture, and she feels she is a part.
Line 319	Angela Luckey: What do you value most about being a Mexican?
Line 320	Thomas Murillo: Oh, gee, there's so many things. So many things I, I mean, I yeah, I.
Line 321	Thomas Murillo: So many things. First time I went to Mexico in 1951 and I saw those poor man. So. And,
Line 322	Thomas Murillo: The music. I really love food. the country and of course, the when I was traveling, the Mexican movie, the most beautiful word my followers could, if I'm prejudiced that way. No, I'm not prejudice. Prejudice means the judge before me. I don't know, I've been this way too. 70 years, and, I know what I'm talking.
Line 323	Angela Luckey: So it. So you said that, you have quite a music collection. You're a pretty. You consider yourself pretty good. Starting on Mexican music.
Line 324	Thomas Murillo: Well, I don't know what the story would mean, but I mean, I. But let me put it this way, that since I was a little child down there, third, we had, one world record players drop and all these, I think they called and you put all I was to draft and all was another. And, I was in diapers yet, and I was standing up there on the chair and putting the records on and cranking it, and, I needed, the diaper change, but I wouldn't get that.
Line 325	Thomas Murillo: My mother had to go get. You have to listen to my diaper. And from there, even in to my high school years where I, like, the big band music and swing music and all of that never lost the thread of the Mexican music. And, then, I went to California and started hearing some of that music that I, I knew that I knew from my childhood.
Line 326	Thomas Murillo: And I started picking up on eventually I started making studying the composers and, based on my memories of that folk music, music from the old days in my school, I really like it. I like to do lots. I don't like a religion with me so long I line. I got a few books on the history of it and, yeah, I'm just kind of just crazy about those guys playing.
Line 327	Thomas Murillo: I'm a frustrated guitar player. I wish I would have been more real scared of the, the ramifications of being a good guitar player because it involves a whole lot of drinking. I know quite a few that have gone down because of that. Yeah. So where are you? And, maybe it was. Oh, you know what they're saying.
Line 328	Thomas Murillo: You you can't. And so I, I dropped out of group and I can remember very little with, with no, but I was becoming very adept at it. And because I liked it so much and I still do like it, with a lot of.
Line 329	Angela Luckey: People who are some of your favorite, what are some of your favorite songs and musicians?
Line 330	Thomas Murillo: Well, with me, it's, more composers and songs. going back to the earliest ones like, who are, you know, versus that band that you, I had later when I was in, I think and, oh, there's so many they come rushing by, I can't think well or anytime, but, okay.
Line 331	Thomas Murillo: And and I bought rap sheet, Christmas Eve. But you know how I, they beat,
Line 332	Thomas Murillo: Or two. But that was already popular, so. Well, I like to, to,
Line 333	Thomas Murillo: It's, Oh, yeah. as I say, I have, I have a few books on, Mexican music. And so I've always been interested in, in the composers because their lives are so, distinct, unique, you might say, some of them, like, I can't think of the names right now. I give up, medical career to write Mexican popular music.
Line 334	Thomas Murillo: I like, as I say, I like those trios as a guitar trios. And then later the mariachis. I like them quite well. I, singer with, folkloric ballets and I, I've been privileged to see, about their analysis about 12 times. The times they change, she has changed. It's gone long to so many different facets and so, the Mexican music and history, and there are other ballets, three other ones that I've seen.
Line 335	Thomas Murillo: And I'm always fascinated by them. the music being the most fascinating one, of course, the costumes and the history. It's involved with a lot of. Yeah, I like it a lot.
Line 336	Angela Luckey: Tell me about your art experience and talk about that. And let's give me one minute. I'm going. you were telling me about your farming experience during.
Line 337	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. When, of course, wasn't like, so many guys, I wasn't I didn't mind that when you come back, you did.
Line 338	Angela Luckey: You did drift.
Line 339	Thomas Murillo: Yeah.
Line 340	Angela Luckey: During World War two.
Line 341	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, well, I tried to. I tried to join, I volunteered in the early part of 1942, but, since had a flat footed at that time, they had this thing that, you couldn't get into the Marines, to the Navy or to, Coast Guard was left feet. So when they told me that guy, I said, boy, I got no time to sit this one out.
Line 342	Thomas Murillo: And it was only about months later that I got my greetings from the draft board, so I knew it was too late to sit it out. And I was working in really me that when I. When I, checked out, they told me, oh, if you look into this matter, getting into a real battalion there for went down in Fort Douglas.
Line 343	Thomas Murillo: And I looked that guy and I just got crazy here and not really in the army, but be damned if they didn't. If they didn't want to put me in real time that time, they were into in engineers. The Corps of Engineers sent me to New Mexico, and I was only there a couple of weeks when, my God, they there was a big hustle and bustle.
Line 344	Thomas Murillo: some guys were going to half the battalion was going to, Alaska. And so that half those guys started selling all their summer clothing and all this John were buying it up like crazy. We're going to go to Africa to see. Well, I think within about 48 hours the orders changes and all reversed. And now all of us who had bought all these summer clothes were going to Alaska and those those guys, we took them to Africa.
Line 345	Thomas Murillo: So we did we we went on up in Alaska and, I, I was in North Korea, which was the engineering company of this road tech company. It was the game that you guys did pick and shovel work, just like just what we did, just what I'd been doing, you know.
Line 346	Angela Luckey: Then.
Line 347	Thomas Murillo: Getting answers. That's what they called. Yeah. The railroad laborers intersection. Jerry's and got to do so many names they had. But anyway, that's what I wound up in. And, we were sent to Alaska to spread, from Skagway in Alaska and into British Columbia and up into the Yukon Territory. It was a small room, 200 level miles.
Line 348	Thomas Murillo: And what we were doing up there was they were building in Alaska Highway at the time, and Whitehorse was a midpoint. they started Edmonton and and was in Fairbanks. In between was Whitehorse. So this little railroad from Skagway up to White Horse was bringing those supplies. It junior troops up there. So the army took that route over.
Line 349	Thomas Murillo: And I went first up to Whitehorse from Whitehorse, and they sent me down to, a place called Log Cabin in British Columbia. And, so I was there, I don't know how many months I was there. I don't remember very well. Could have been there six months. But as it happened in that, in that company, because we were all getting dances, Mexicans were.
Line 350	Thomas Murillo: The railroads in this country uses a lot of Mexicans as gang dancers, track laborers. You and I got in that company there. I think I caught 33 of us, and some of them were from Mexicans and speak English, so they quickly decided they'd better have somebody in there and spoke the two languages. But they knew somebody could work in the office.
Line 351	Thomas Murillo: You see, it wasn't enough. You know, most of spoke English, Spanish, but it want somebody could really help them. Aside from the right to do the work in the office. So they, the guy was doing it, the guy from Montana. And he would become friendly friend from the time down in Mexico. And, so, he suggested me.
Line 352	Thomas Murillo: And so they looked at my record, and then they looked at the other records of the other question guys, and I was going to graduate from high school. So they sent me a letter asking me if I was interested in came down working with the. Yeah, I just gone through my first winter up to, you know, 45 degrees below zero is not exactly.
Line 353	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, well, I spent too much time and. Yeah, Carmen told me that I'd like to come down, so come on down. Let's see what happened. So I went down there and they they talked to me and they decided. Yeah, well, it, it was, was pretty well cut and dried because I could type and, I could spell and I could write.
Line 354	Thomas Murillo: And so that's how I was able to, avoid being shot at by Japanese, German soldiers. And, at the time, I kind of feel guilty because I got a lot of my buddies from here or getting shot up there. I was working in the office, but then I started remembering those days when they couldn't hire me here.
Line 355	Thomas Murillo: And I couldn't swim in this YMCA because I was rescued. I said, well, actually, I don't have that big a stake in this war. And and I start feeling guilty because, if, that's the way it is, you know, I'm not an American. If I'm not ready, what the hell businesses do? I have been, killed for this country.
Line 356	Thomas Murillo: You know, I came to peace with that, you know, and, I, I didn't choose the branch of service to go, and I could have easily.
Line 357	Unknown: Got in the country.
Line 358	Thomas Murillo: I did start to sidestep that suggestion that I go see. Yes, because I know I would wound up being treated. So I, it was just a matter of luck, and that's all it was. And I didn't I didn't pull the cards from the deck. Somebody else did.
Line 359	Angela Luckey: So in the office work. What kind of work?
Line 360	Thomas Murillo: Well, I was raised as a typist, and I, you know, I did, I wrote letters, typed letters and, Even, translated the articles of war through. So it's this one guy's from Mexico and the guy in trouble, and he was given a punishment to come on mission consist of walking up and down the country area for field, packing them on the rifle.
Line 361	Thomas Murillo: This was his punishment. I don't remember what he did. He got drunk and he got in the fight or something. Later on he tried to pick one on me. But anyway, he said he didn't understand what his sentence was. So they asked me to write articles of war in Spanish, which I did. So, you know, that was kind of stuff like, I, I did, and you know what?
Line 362	Thomas Murillo: Guys like that, they come in, get in trouble. You know, they'd be up in the mountains for a long time, and then they come down for one reason or another, and they'd go downtown Skagway and get drunk, and you'd get in fights, breaks out. So they'd make a guard house and then piece of them in and then, you know, Ken, the captain invested.
Line 363	Thomas Murillo: sit in judgment. So a lot he couldn't understand what it was all about. So that's where they used me.
Line 364	Thomas Murillo: And it was that had to work. And keeping records was like, they were laying a new rail line someplace up in the mountains there, and I had to keep a progress report. How many times a plane and how many rail they made each day. Things like that.
Line 365	Angela Luckey: Did you tell me that there were some soldiers that were drafted, some Mexican guys that were not citizens?
Line 366	Thomas Murillo: Yeah, that one guy. That one little guy. I can't think his name right now. Yeah, he was from Japan. And, he could hardly speak. English. And, that's, you know, another guy named George. Really nice guy from. Chicago. But he was from Mexico.
Line 367	Angela Luckey: And, well, they take 1 or 2, or they were.
Line 368	Thomas Murillo: Just.
Line 369	Angela Luckey: What happened to draft and they didn't have.
Line 370	Thomas Murillo: They do. I mean, my two brothers were not citizens, and they were both of my, my oldest brother was one of the first guys drafted here in town. But, again, that was another job that I got was, they made it easy for these guys to get their citizenship and what they had to do there, what we did, there's, we get on the train.
Line 371	Thomas Murillo: The trains ran from Skagway across the border into Canada, not from the Yukon Territory. And they would have to get on the train and cross the Canadian border to go into Canada and then go back across into Alaska. And at that point, then they had crossed into the United States, and that time they were given, their citizenship.
Line 372	Thomas Murillo: It was simple as that. So, perhaps it was something that had been. Caused by the war. And it was made easy for these guys. I, I never did ask the two brothers how they went about it. I know how they got their citizenship to.
Line 373	Angela Luckey: And you said, that you were used for translating the law. It is. Your relatives speak Spanish important to you?
Line 374	Thomas Murillo: Yeah. Yeah, I I'm sorry, but it's Texans that because we feel that way? Yeah. I just can't see this carrying on conversation, jumping from word from one language to the other. You go along with it. Fine. And then kind of calling yourself bilingual. I just don't think that's bilingual around easy you can speak to line is completely cut and, if you can't do, any business, call yourself bilingual.
Line 375	Thomas Murillo: But. No, I met this guy in León.
Line 376	Thomas Murillo: Once. I guess it was that year ago, and I went to Mexico. We were in this bus station and I started talking to this guy who's American who spoke Spanish. He lived there. And then all of a sudden, in conversation, he says, you're not, Mexican. He said something about, why are you saying here? You said.
Line 377	Thomas Murillo: He said, yeah. And you don't speak Spanish like a Mexican? Mexican because I speak Spanish. Right. And something like that. And it, it got me pretty upset. And when we got back to California. Now, I'm not gonna let you get away from me, so I'm going to. This is 1964, right? I decided I was going to make an effort to, try and retain what I already had and maybe improve on it.
Line 378	Thomas Murillo: The American,
Line 379	Thomas Murillo: The matter of my being born being Mexican also was, Inspired, if you want to call it that, by a guy during the war. He was from Mississippi and there were seven horse races. There are. He told me one day that, as soon as this country was finished with the Germans projects, they were going to take care of the Mexicans to.
Line 380	Thomas Murillo: And, it increasingly enraged me more because I didn't know what to say. I didn't know how to answer. And then the more I thought about, the more I said, well, one reason is because you know what being Mexican is. And so I grew. When this war is over, my Mexican wait for that. And some people he comes across.
Line 381	Thomas Murillo: But more than that, going for it. That's what this is all about. So, they didn't go to Mexico, but I did go in 1951 and the first time I saw those pyramids that they had to work on, and that's when I knew what being a Mexican was all about at that time, I was I to study all I can about being Mexican, about Mexican history, but I don't know what the hell to talk when somebody says that to you.
Line 382	Thomas Murillo: Now have an answer. Let's see. And that's what that's what what impelled me to study Mexican history. To study everything I could about it. And I studied.
Line 383	Angela Luckey: Said important to your daughter, to Spanish speaking Spanish in the culture?
Line 384	Thomas Murillo: No, she does speak French. She's very much, a student of the culture teaching. But, she's the Spanish is because she doesn't, all of the years have gone by, she's let it go by, they call it procrastination, and she certainly has interest in it. She can understand something glorious, you understand? But, she she doesn't know anything about it, but picking it up.
Line 385	Thomas Murillo: But all the rest of it. Yeah, she the music, the food, she likes, you know, going to she really enjoyed going down this archeological places. So she's gotten that much out of the.
Line 386	Angela Luckey: Where have you traveled in Mexico? Where have you traveled this?
Line 387	Thomas Murillo: Well, where are you from? The north to the south and east to the west. going through. Right. Juarez. All the way down to Yucatan. The border is out to my right. And from the cruise to, wireless, which are on the Pacific. I haven't gone to a good book. and that's, you know, there's nothing there that interests me.
Line 388	Thomas Murillo: there's nothing historic that I can think of. And everybody wants to go without a book all the way out in the sun and get a tan. And I tell people, hell, I got my of standard equipment or, you know, I don't have to go to Homestead Beach to get a tan. and, I've been as close to this Tuscan passage for I, I want to go back up close to me, it means wealth and a wealthy person.
Line 389	Thomas Murillo: And I don't mean that I've done that. I cruise. Oh, that, that's really that's on the blanks, I think. Yeah, that hits me just right. A lot of good seafood buffet and great music. Yeah. Every day new music starts done. Plus, just goes on till midnight. I like it, I like the very hot in the backwoods.
Line 390	Thomas Murillo: Then you could turn on. I could, because those people really are different. Different from us, from you, from you and from me. I sit there and I'm listening, talking and their mind language. And I say, how kind of we're brothers. How come I don't understand? Interesting is because they're speaking mind, you see, very tiny people, and their history is very fascinating.
Line 391	Thomas Murillo: and, yeah, I, like you could tell so many archeological, zones to go to. This fascinates me. God, last year we to my school with intention was only the intention of going stay to work workload to research our family. Well, I also wanted to go to Yucatan, so I put the horse we recorded we had in the car.
Line 392	Thomas Murillo: I went to town first, and then I stayed. So on that by the time I started back, I didn't have time to go to one.
Line 393	Angela Luckey: I'm planning to go to summer, but.
Line 394	Thomas Murillo: in fact, she just brought it up today, and, I told her I'm not in any hurry. Rather, we got this work done and, in the fall would be all right. And, my youngest brother, I think, wants to go with me, but I told going on, I can only tell you that it will be between now and the end of the year, because I don't want to say I want to go.
Line 395	Thomas Murillo: I want to hold him up waiting on me because I'm, you know, I'm no longer meeting any schedules. But, of course, that's what worked against me when I went to Mexico. And I wasn't working against any schedules. And but I got my time out and I was down $2 when I got.
Line 396	Thomas Murillo: To 30. But, you know, that's from having from not having my services invite me in, but I just didn't arrangement schedule, my itinerary set. Well I didn't a lot of travel time see. And they really caught up with you.
Line 397	Angela Luckey: Is it looks like we just have a little bit left. And I didn't ask you about the discrimination. Maybe you or your family experience in Pocatello.
Line 398	Thomas Murillo: It wasn't it wasn't talked about very much again. And I think it's not I think that it wasn't because they it was an experience or because one thing we slept in under the rug, it's because we,
Line 399	Thomas Murillo: We mixed among ourselves and, again, you know, told you back when they turned me down for the job. Yeah. the railroad, that, freight house. And as an apprentice machinist, when I was proposed to the Union by this guy. And then they didn't allow me to use that, swimming pool at the one and see, you know, my father paid a subsidy and for this paycheck.
Line 400	Thomas Murillo: And I know that it happened to other guys, too. at the same time, other Mexicans who are lighter skinned or like you, you see.
Line 401	Angela Luckey: What a lot of that like to see, and.
Line 402	Thomas Murillo: Oh, yeah. And, soda fountain in the early in the early, Way back when I was, you know, I might have been ten, 11, 12 years old. And, something happened at the Strand Theater. I don't know what they told me, what they tried to do. Me and I got mad, and I told this friend of mine, he was a Basque, and I told him about it, and he said, you go tell them that your money is as good as anybody else's money.
Line 403	Thomas Murillo: Well, I didn't do that because I just didn't show my face anymore. and then over here at the at the Rialto, the East Side theater. Oh, man. Grossman used to put the Indians, the Mexicans and the blacks in the left hand, rear, rear, left hand section. That movie house. So I stopped going back to and, in the soda fountains.
Line 404	Thomas Murillo: I think that,
Line 405	Thomas Murillo: Wow. That Greek guy. And we're kids together, and he he refused to serve over his restaurant trying to do the that, but other than that, I, I don't remember ever being refused service at the soda farms. But I do remember my older sister telling me about one of their black friends. They went into. The Walgreens, to which drugstore.
Line 406	Thomas Murillo: And they refused to serve the black lady, but, not not hurt. They didn't do that to her. And,
Line 407	Thomas Murillo: There was discrimination in housing because even I experienced that from this one guy that he worked with in the on the house for. I worked there was house for right now. I knocked the door and my God, there, there he was. And I get one of the report to me, and I know Tony Rogers when he moved in that house down here to him pays.
Line 408	Thomas Murillo: well, I was told firsthand that he had to go through some legal maneuvers to buy the house because there was objections to. And, do you know Tony.
Line 409	Thomas Murillo: You know, well, you know, in the past, he's he's had his own attitudes or his attitudes of superiority. And, that must have taken them. Taken him down one hell of a notch. we,
Line 410	Thomas Murillo: Since I've been back, he's been friendly to me. And, I was never. I was never seduced by his boss. And I let him know about it. And so we were always very good friends. Really. He's been came. I realize that's just the way he is. And and but the hell he's he was probably the only well, his sister Margaret.
Line 411	Thomas Murillo: All right. You and he married this great girl again. They're another example, you know that her father, man, he disowned when she married Tony and then must have been hell road is equal. To who? After all, he just didn't care to be a mason. Sometimes. He was a person who was, several Irish. And his name was Anthony Irish.
Line 412	Thomas Murillo: Rogers. Really? but, on the other hand, he. There's a lot of things that I admire about Tony. he's never drank. He's never smoked, you know, and that's why he looks good at his age. he, he always did. He he's kind of complex in that he was trying to be. He was a wannabe.
Line 413	Thomas Murillo: He would be. Why would it seem time? He never lost his his, Mexican, traits. You know, he always spoke Spanish. well, he jumped back and forth like the Texan would do with, he, he has some likable qualities, but, you know, it's hard to find with for that. You know, I give him credit.
Line 414	Angela Luckey: Wasn't even president of the Mexican organization at one time.
Line 415	Thomas Murillo: Well, this was after, after I left, there was an organization here that was formed. In fact, you know, we were together before I left, but it was. That's how he exposed himself. You know, this one year, not only to get together food, to, put together the celebration. 50 main, 16 of September. And this one year. Well, I felt to me to, organizing and,
Line 416	Thomas Murillo: We used the memorial hall for the dance and, and, trying to, for I had to talk to this guy North. I think his name is associated with the dance mortuary. Well, when I went to in the hall, he told me that Tony Broadcasting told him not to write.
Line 417	Thomas Murillo: And so you can imagine. My sponsor, as this is happening, you know, as working together at that time tonight, as good friends with the great big guys named Jake Jacobson. And Jake was very, involved in, Veterans Affairs. In fact, you state commander, the signal veterans, and, boy, a guy who's huge something. And so I wanted to I said, Jake, does that memorial building belong to the American Legion?
Line 418	Thomas Murillo: Only? Oh, hell no. And I said, well, there's cat over there telling me that he can rent me. Like, what? A building. I said, I'm a veteran, but I got as much as it is. But I said, am I not entitled to retire? He said, yeah. I said, well, we won't rent to. And he said, oh, who are you talking about?
Line 419	Thomas Murillo: I talked to him, so he called me. He recommended invoice the state command and told him what was happening down here. And I guess he could not raise his hands and.
Line 420	Thomas Murillo: A few days Jake said, you call and talk to the weekend. I don't know where they rented you. That's obviously. Well, then later I met, Tony and his wife down there on Center Street one night, and they came to me. I him to speak to him came. I said, you know that story about Tony trying to do that is not true?
Line 421	Thomas Murillo: He didn't do that. I said, don't come telling me that. Go tell no, he's one. Told him I didn't make up the story. And so from that time on, you know, until I retired and had no use for Tony, you know, I mean, he, you know, my mother kind of things. But as I look back now, I try to figure out why would he do the thing?
Line 422	Thomas Murillo: And the only answer I can come up with is that he's chosen, as so many of us are, of course, and that it's pretty childish thing to do. I mean, who was his reason? Because he was not the head of the of that group at that time. But, I had insinuated myself into that position. Some, you know, other guys had suggested to me, just like he came to be the, the leader in previous times.
Line 423	Thomas Murillo: And he did later on to...

Pena, Henry

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: Yes. My name is Martha Torrez. Today is March 16th, 1991. We're at the home of Mr. Henry Pena, and his address is at 315 Seventh Avenue North, Nampa, Idaho. It's approximately 1:17 p.m.. And, Mr. Pena, my first question that I'd like to ask you is where, when did you first come to the state of Idaho?
Line 2	Henry Pena: In March of 1947. I think that's 47, 39.
Line 3	Martha Torrez: 1939? Yes. Why did you come to the state of Idaho?
Line 4	Henry Pena: Because of, we that came here on, trip, he came to freighter because he wasn't making enough money to support us in Colorado. He was earning a dollar a day for ten hours work.
Line 5	Martha Torrez: In Colorado and.
Line 6	Henry Pena: Colorado. So he decided to come here because he had a friend here that ... told him her daughter was making good money. And so he arrived in this, in that winter and, well, he left home on the last day of January, moved up this freight, and he told us he had froze to death, but he made it to whole working for there was farmers recruiting laborers for the next spring crop on the beach.
Line 7	Henry Pena: So he went to this farmer in Marsing, and Mr., what was his name? Hardin, I think, and Herschel, two farmers and they this farmer call and yes, he did come and work for him and. They said, okay, right away. He didn't even know that. And they told him, how much money do you need? And dad said, dollars.
Line 8	Henry Pena: I think about $100 in those days, hundred dollars a month. And so he he said, well, do you need a truck? Do you need a car to bring your family? He said, no, I got a car back on that train trailer with and he got up to ride at home.
Line 9	Martha Torrez: So your father came first before you brought them. When you say that he just about froze to death. Was that on his way here?
Line 10	Henry Pena: Yeah, on a freight train boxcar. Because I had no way to pay for any transportation. So that's what he done. And he had some relatives there in the outbreak in Utah. He stopped there and went to visit them. And I gave him some food and lunch so he could make it to Salt Lake. And there he had another friend that he came with him, can't remember his name, but they both came.
Line 11	Henry Pena: And, this farmer, like I said, this farmer offered everything he needed. So he went home and he told us, we want to go to Idaho. And we said, or is Idaho.
Line 12	Martha Torrez: Had never heard of. No.
Line 13	Henry Pena: No, no. I said, well, it's way far. And that was for us. We never been out of state or nothin. So he said, well, pack up and leave. So we left and time that we left, we had quite a bit of trouble with the train. It took us seven days to get from there to here, and now it only takes us about 12 hours.
Line 14	Martha Torrez: What kind of trouble did you have?
Line 15	Henry Pena: Tires, flat tires and troubles with a little trailer. And that time we couldn't find a tires for that same mate as a trailer. So about ten miles that we had a lot of clothes and that said, well, fix that tire. So we patted him with old clothes and he made about ten miles, and we didn't get hardly that green river here till I got ten miles in the desert, so that we stayed till her brother Benny Low pitched.
Line 16	Henry Pena: He hitched a ride to the river and he found a tire. So we came back and hit another ride. And then he come. We put it on and it didn't work, but we had to get another tire and we were to make sure my dad wouldn't go over 30 mile an hour. And he had a big old and concert for so 32 of them tires were pretty huge, but it took us that long.
Line 17	Henry Pena: We would travel back five six hours a day and then we'd camp out. We couldn't write down what it was, so we had to camp out and, Tomo, you call that here to Napa? That said, oh, all are about me marching 20 miles more. But, he said, we gotta stop past Napa. I need a way stop around for Lake View School with no.
Line 18	Henry Pena: And we said, how far is it yet? So it's just over the hill. And it took just about another hour from there. And then it was up there and farmer had a place or it was a chicken coop, so.
Line 19	Martha Torrez: Oh my goodness. Before, before we move on to that, Mr. Pena, those seven days that before you got to Nampa, it seems that money was a problem. What did you do for food?
Line 20	Henry Pena: Well, we had thought we had beans and stuff that go by hand over there and stuff from them. Hundred dollars to get from the farmer.
Line 21	Martha Torrez: So when every time you camped out that's.
Line 22	Henry Pena: You know what you can we we made our own, we made our own food and all it by was bread or mom, her sister, she'd make tortillas out on the desert or just take us to Layton she didn't make and not. We found that, Marsh. And we still had money left.
Line 23	Martha Torrez: So was this during the winter that you were doing ...
Line 24	Henry Pena: But March.
Line 25	Martha Torrez: That march.
Line 26	Henry Pena: About time to start out and be.
Line 27	Martha Torrez: Well, it was still kind of cold. So when, while you were getting on your trip to Nampa, how did you.
Line 28	Henry Pena: All those times. By that time it was different weather. And now. Oh yeah, by April it was already warm. So you in March and wasn't? No, I was happy with that was an hour and a half picnic. That we got to march in that day and that's what we found. But it was still better than what we had in Colorado.
Line 29	Henry Pena: We just had a house, but they just said room and kitchen. And, you know, that diner and kitchen were there. And the bedroom and that sleep over there was my home bed for my sisters and him and his wife.
Line 30	Martha Torrez: But the first house that the farmer or the provided you with was a chicken coop.
Line 31	Henry Pena: Yeah. And there was another two families there afterward. Yeah. They got there. Oh right. And so let's start what was in the 1 or 2 days before we started working and dad said, well, can the family work here? A farmer said, oh yes, I had a hold on a ranch along Colorado. They wouldn't let you work out on the field.
Line 32	Henry Pena: Still, you was 14 or 16. What a way to I mean, I started working and that I only started making about $100 in a day.
Line 33	Martha Torrez: And for the whole family.
Line 34	Henry Pena: Yeah, my whole family was me and my older brother and my sister and dad. Four of us, their sisters were on the school. Mary and. And know. Well, she was the only one. But, and when we start work and and like to work there all summer and hay and and all that, that farmer was real good.
Line 35	Henry Pena: He never did remind dad and daddy had to pay him that money, but dad paid it to like. And dad when we came, he didn't pay for his car. He said he did pay a payment or two and he knew he had made the payment. But them guys over there said no, you never saw. They came and compensated his car.
Line 36	Henry Pena: And dad said, I'm not going to give you no more money. So you know why I'm making enough now to buy two cars. Okay, so.
Line 37	Martha Torrez: So they came and they.
Line 38	Henry Pena: Took.
Line 39	Martha Torrez: The car?
Line 40	Henry Pena: But he got them on right away. Better cars. Watch would have kept that car that was and take on the Lincoln said permission make your tires with spokes on it rather than cars was a lot of money, you know. But then that summer we worked there and then Colorado, we go back and Pat went on, what was it, 2 or 3 when we went back.
Line 41	Henry Pena: And that's when.
Line 42	Martha Torrez: This is after you.
Line 43	Henry Pena: When you and, you know, you had gone before. So then dad bought a place here at 12 start stay in here for sure. And the following two years we never worked for them. Palmerstown mall walked around here in, this, seasonal work. Like they can be taking care and Scott no days plow can beat and all that.
Line 44	Henry Pena: And, was making $30 a day myself at that time. So when I got married, all that, I quit all that. And I started that one that same year.
Line 45	Martha Torrez: So that was two.
Line 46	Henry Pena: 47
Line 47	Martha Torrez: 47, you know.
Line 48	Henry Pena: So and, we got married in September and November of that year. I start where or.
Line 49	Martha Torrez: How did you how did you know about the railroad jobs? How did you.
Line 50	Henry Pena: Well, dad, that had to work there. He was working and he told me that there was hiring. So I went to see I had to go to Lambda Idaho. I had an extra gang there, and we worked there all that winter. Kept on that extra K lay and steel and so switching track and things like that. Then next spring in 48, I started working here in New York and a section I same kind of work last year and taking care of maintaining the tracks.
Line 51	Henry Pena: And, then I got laid off by the winter and, I'd start looking for scrap and stuff and not sell, make it make ends meet. So that wasn't long before they called me back and worked up on, and they laid me off again. Right. I went on extra gang and we went to Crane work. And that winter in 48, or was it 50? 48.
Line 52	Henry Pena: I think the work there all winter and. The we just about froze there, freezing cold and all that had they sold more cash was I didn't have no contractor stuff. One day we went to get our checks to. Burn to Oregon. Was 50 below zero that we couldn't hardly walk. But Pearl was so good staying that they had sent the checks.
Line 53	Henry Pena: I did, sending them to Ontario. To Oregon. They send them to Ontario, Canada.
Line 54	Martha Torrez: Oh.
Line 55	Henry Pena: So that good thing we did. Because if I start right out back to the camp, which was 30 miles, but what they gave us about 2 or 3 hours before they made us type guards. Bobcat. But and then, we thawed out and we'll look for contracts and papers to wrap around ourselves to head back. And,
Line 56	Martha Torrez: What what kind of transportation were you using to get where you were going?
Line 57	Henry Pena: The motor cars.
Line 58	Martha Torrez: The motor cars.
Line 59	Henry Pena: At and see to made out in that trailer behind. And, we'd get on there just on nail and I think there's a kitchen here. How it would.
Line 60	Martha Torrez: So the way this how was it that you kept warm just by using the newspaper?
Line 61	Henry Pena: Yeah. And they didn't have no heater, save that how we had to travel. I would just, open air there and nothing to cover ourselves with, but we had to find some place to get back a good thing that by that time, it must have been 1 or 2 by time we started back. And, by that time, it got about ten degrees warmer.
Line 62	Henry Pena: So we made it back and the good thing we had at camp Tanner, it had them all time bunk cars in the fire in the stove. So I was all right. And and that winter. And that spring came back and started working here in New York again. I worked pretty steady till 1950. I started working at Bank Idaho intersection there.
Line 63	Henry Pena: I work there, but two years and then I moved down to. Hammett. I worked there about two years. Then by 1953 54, I worked for the state here in the yard.
Line 64	Martha Torrez: Before you started working, you know. Steady. What did you do with that during the times of layoffs?
Line 65	Henry Pena: Well, I draw my unemployment and then I'd go out and do odd jobs, you know, and then write those time to give them good money for scrap iron and stuff. But cleaning this yard, this country here, then they buy bone and give you about 2.02 pounds a pound and anything to keep us going, you know. But we never suffered.
Line 66	Henry Pena: Once we left Colorado, we kind of made that hand over there when he was making just a dollar a day or. But I think it was probably about ten, 15 years in winter time or. Well, he didn't have enough to feed us, so he'd go out and hunt you know, the game warden, know what he was doing. So he knew that meat wasn't going to waste.
Line 67	Henry Pena: So we had meat, beans, potatoes and rice and stuff like that. But we had meat. But once that away game warden retired, he didn't tell that no one what was going on. So on that no game warden while he took his guns away and said, you can have that. Tried to explain to him, but he didn't want to get that.
Line 68	Henry Pena: I was like that. I had trouble. And so that's when I really got hard. And he said he had to do something. So that's when they came here.
Line 69	Martha Torrez: So, Mr. Brennan, how would you describe your first memories of Idaho?
Line 70	Henry Pena: I describe them as, you know, like when, like that saying from rags to riches. We thought it was for rich people, you know? So we got to Idaho. We had everything we needed. And that, took care of is my name on them for 2 or 3 years. We went to Arizona after that, after going to. That's when, Colorado, we'd go down there so on and passed away and all that.
Line 71	Henry Pena: It was a money made of some money. So we always, happened to find jobs in Arizona to help us out more.
Line 72	Martha Torrez: So was that just to leave the hard winters in Idaho and go spend?
Line 73	Henry Pena: Yeah. And so when I left, when we all got married and dad didn't have no other resorts, they just stuck to the railroad and he didn't have more help from us. No more. So that's why they don't tell he retired and that's. But I done up to that time I retired.
Line 74	Martha Torrez: Do you remember, other Hispanic families when you first came to Idaho?
Line 75	Henry Pena: Well, the only ones we knew was, what was their name? There was from Colorado to. They. Okay. They had their last names now, but there was 2 or 3 families that there was there was. I was working that farm and machine.
Line 76	Martha Torrez: That were all right. They were already here in Idaho.
Line 77	Henry Pena: We know that was in Oregon.
Line 78	Martha Torrez: Oh.
Line 79	Henry Pena: Yeah. And I saw them. And then when we heard them on, dad went over and invite them to come and help them because this farmer needed more help. So when they heard that there was a place there, we told them what kind of place. So we don't mind as long as we make money. So they came down and that's the only family we went.
Line 80	Henry Pena: No, I can't think of a man named. I know his name was Abraham. That first, first name.
Line 81	Unknown: And, and,
Line 82	Henry Pena: And I know he had three sons, Danny and, Leo and. But I can't think of that name.
Line 83	Martha Torrez: Can you give me a description of your living conditions? I know that you have described a chicken coop already. Can you describe the surroundings?
Line 84	Henry Pena: You like, you know, I mean, like.
Line 85	Martha Torrez: What kind of bedding or. What did you use for cooking? Did you have.
Line 86	Henry Pena: Oh, we had a regular wood stove. And then, table. They gave us some hay. No bed springs. We could just play them on the floor, sleep there, and, change like that and use them. Coach or or five year old was pretty clean, but he had, like, it used to be cold. We we don't mind sleeping during the winter, in spring time or summer, but, outside, of course, pasture, stuff like that.
Line 87	Henry Pena: But no animals that were on the Or stock, the farm, like, treat us. All right? We had anything we want to eat. Furnish eggs and milk. No, no, the money was making out in everything we needed to eat.
Line 88	Martha Torrez: How many people would you say lived in that coop at one time?
Line 89	Henry Pena: Well, we had two separate, rooms. One family there had two for. And another family. There was, three. Seven, seven and or three beds. Our boys slept together and and, sisters slept together. One and, on the other, usually crossways. So we rode left. We never. I don't remember being caught, as always. Like you sleep together.
Line 90	Henry Pena: You never got caught. So. But, living conditions. I thought that was pretty fair. Not like in Colorado. Terrible. Where? There. And, and I know a lot of people in Colorado was going to the same time, so I thought I had a whole Paradise when we left Colorado. And but I heard about the people out there.
Line 91	Henry Pena: Sure. A happy place to live. Colorado. And most of us were from Colorado. That was here first. Then all the other people started coming around that place too close to 60, mostly from Texas, California, all them state, New Mexico and but, they all used to say, you go to Idaho, you can just read the money in the baskets.
Line 92	Henry Pena: And so that's Idaho. That's what I think about my life. And I started to write a story. I don't know what I don't, but our journey to Idaho, that's about like what I was telling you.
Line 93	Martha Torrez: Well, we sure like to see that when you're finished with it. Did you attend school here in Idaho? No, not at all.
Line 94	Henry Pena: Just my smaller sister. No. Established. Getting school with all that money was make a that, the way it is. And in those years, you didn't think you know what's going on in school. I sure thought of that when I went out as a engineer for me to be here in Nampa, in my town of percent. And but, when, they sent me to China and to study, bought all the parts of a diesel engine or six brake wasn't going to help me.
Line 95	Henry Pena: So I told them I didn't come here to study about three ranges or part of it. I come here to run them engines and there's nothing to run in them. They get to know it's the rules and the written tests they gave me over there. That's where I failed in math test and stuff. But I did do pretty good.
Line 96	Henry Pena: And like three points later, the engineer. But, me and done a lot of other things on the railroad farm and, and machine operator and things like that.
Line 97	Martha Torrez: So what was the total of years that you spent with the road?
Line 98	Henry Pena: 42
Line 99	Martha Torrez: 42
Line 100	Henry Pena: Or three. Yeah. Don't buy everything. 30 is there all but circle work? What I did do that when I was driving truck, I had to do another book called. And when I got into the last year of my career, I'd have to there in the office doing a lot of book work. I'm here was my school and I had, to do was don't go in.
Line 101	Henry Pena: I learned a lot by experience and.
Line 102	Martha Torrez: Do you remember any other Hispanic men that were working men or women that worked with for the railroad, the time that you were working?
Line 103	Henry Pena: Yeah, well, that's Mac Lopez, my father in law. I didn't mention him. Get on that list. Yeah, he's. He worked with me a few years, and, he came here night or something like that. I don't remember, pardon me, but I think when he came here right away. Start working for the railroad, he didn't do nothing else.
Line 104	Henry Pena: But, And there's Frank Chavez. They they weren't Christians there.
Line 105	Martha Torrez: How old were you when you moved from field work? You know, farm work into the railroad?
Line 106	Henry Pena: I was 22. Old. Yeah. So you remember. That's the same year, but married, but married in September. And I started working for him in November of 47.
Line 107	Martha Torrez: Do you when you were moving back a little bit before you came into the railroad job, while you were doing migrant seasonal farm work? Do you remember any other people that were involved in the Bracero program or illegals that were working in the fields?
Line 108	Henry Pena: Well, I remember one. One year there was I was later going to fall. I drove a bus for a farmer and I was taken class. I don't know if I'd taken longer. I just stay in the bus waiting till I got up. Then I bring them back. But that was just a short time, maybe a month or two.
Line 109	Henry Pena: Then they call me back on the railroad. Just a temporary layoff.
Line 110	Martha Torrez: Were you familiar at all with what the referral program was? And.
Line 111	Henry Pena: Well, I knew was they come to work and and then I go back home and, but I seen, that time they had to pay them good. They used to treat them right. And, they had better places, a state and some, people I knew around here. So I used to ask how they were treating them.
Line 112	Henry Pena: Right. They said, can we get everything we need? So that guy didn't work for them? Well, I didn't, you know, I didn't, bother to ask them a question. But that's why I got turned down. Because I could speak Spanish. You know, and anything they needed, they'd ask me to ask a farmer, and I paid one and more paper trail.
Line 113	Henry Pena: Been to wait a year to contact. Tell me to ask what kind of money? By myself. Care in whatever way you wanted, some work done.
Line 114	Martha Torrez: And that being bilingual helped you get the job for working with the farmer?
Line 115	Henry Pena: Yeah.
Line 116	Martha Torrez: Isn't there any other particular situations or experiences that you remember with the bracero program?
Line 117	Henry Pena: Well, when I remember one time, too, I think this was before I got married and needed interpretors at them stores. But there used to come down and, I worked from my work as an interpreter, and there wasn't long me there that time. All I've done was to ask them what they want, and they'd tell me and I'd go to the park.
Line 118	Henry Pena: Park. So the thing I can remember about the program, generally time to time that work late to try and help them up, you know.
Line 119	Martha Torrez: What's the treatment? Do you remember any kind of, you know, how Mexicans were treated at that time?
Line 120	Henry Pena: Well, at that time, no. Mears really was here for time. They had a lot of saying that. No match going to allow you and the first or no time. I don't know what happened, what made them change. But they did take them off in there. I know there was places ahead of time assigned and, I didn't mind at or someplace else.
Line 121	Martha Torrez: But not all businesses had them. Then.
Line 122	Henry Pena: You know this, sir, and certainly people.
Line 123	Martha Torrez: Are you referring to businesses like your restaurant?
Line 124	Henry Pena: Like a restaurant stores, barber shop mean? I don't remember no restaurant. I mean, the closest stores. To it. I didn't know that there was a barber shop here, and I seen that 1 or 2, and some other stores, I can't remember.
Line 125	Martha Torrez: How did you feel about that? ... personally? Yes.
Line 126	Henry Pena: Well, I don't know that of money here. I didn't put much attention to it and just thought that was something that they almost all didn't know. But I didn't think too much about it. But now that I see all this rationale stuff for the black people, I think that and say, no wonder they had them signs or offer, you know, and Indians, they never did used to sell them liquor because I wish they never called it breaking.
Line 127	Henry Pena: They want to kill. Maybe they thought that about when it occurs to them, but.
Line 128	Martha Torrez: As a identity, did you identify yourself as Mexican or Mexican, American or Chicano? How do what how do you identify yourself?
Line 129	Henry Pena: Okay, well, not what I always put white on every report I put...
Line 130	Martha Torrez: So when you're asked what nationality.
Line 131	Henry Pena: Sometimes I say Mexican. Most time I guess when I had to field, you know, farms or employment, I used to put a line, by the way, again, I have no right to reject.
Line 132	Martha Torrez: Mr. Pena, we were just talking about when you were when you would apply for jobs, you would, as far as, when they ask you for nationality, you were you would identify yourself as a white person. What was the reason for that?
Line 133	Henry Pena: Because, maybe, I used to think, well, if they don't hire me, then that, you know, they never did question me about that. Never did.
Line 134	Martha Torrez: Did you have experiences then when you did identify yourself as a Mexican, that they would reject your applications?
Line 135	Henry Pena: I because nobody ever rejected. So I put in a lot of color, but I had to fill another application. I'll do the same thing. But, really? But when it came to relate to it, if I was from the United States to claim which match. Okay.
Line 136	Martha Torrez: Do you recall any experiences when you were treated differently or whatever the fact that you were Mexican.
Line 137	Henry Pena: Or one time when you were able to take it on one job, they they gave this job to a white guy and they would collect seniority. And, he had less time or so I gave it to him because. So facial he, he like this kid. He's like his dad was a lot younger than me. And, I used to, you know, when the foreman was gone, they'd call me at all hours and I'd go out and do their very work.
Line 138	Henry Pena: And they depended on me a lot. And I say well. That's the way they're going to treat me. Well, I put this complaint against, too much. Right? Permission. Did they say no? Was there no right in, on that case? So it was discriminating against.
Line 139	Martha Torrez: So you took this case to court and you won.
Line 140	Henry Pena: Yeah.
Line 141	Martha Torrez: They get did they give you the job and the result. Yeah.
Line 142	Henry Pena: They gave me the job. And back difference in pay and stuff.
Line 143	Martha Torrez: I think that's great. It would would you say that was the only that experience you had that.
Line 144	Henry Pena: You know all that was in another case. But this was this other guy was, you know, he was a union. One was this union storage brother. And he knew that I put this application in for a truck driver. There was another truck driving job, so he found out from his brother. But my dad was that day I put this application in and so what they'd done, they said, well, what I'll do, I'll put an application 1 or 2 days.
Line 145	Henry Pena: Oh, what? He put it. So he done that to that to don't. But I never did quite that because I know this guy. But, it was my friend and, and he, he showed me around about where all the men. I said, well, something happened. I'm a great believer in that. God kinda. I'm the same God and I'll carry revenge on him.
Line 146	Henry Pena: But this one time, just in God's hand, you know, run after me about a heart attack. You know, that day job. Oh, okay.
Line 147	Martha Torrez: So you felt. Did you feel angry or anything?
Line 148	Henry Pena: No, I don't feel angry. I just happened to think that last or that freedom to work here. Same thing that you believe it's possible or what? Change possible or man, it's possible or God shot. But there's one time or this other deal. Like I went ahead because I know what you're saying. Just. Yeah, to do it.
Line 149	Henry Pena: And this one guy, I could tell that he was prejudiced. I said, I'll tell him.
Line 150	Martha Torrez: I wish it was this in the railroad.
Line 151	Henry Pena: Yeah, this. Yeah, it was true. And, you know, that's that time I did well, in that case, because I wouldn't do anything, you know that I know I don't know that I would have, you know, a test for me, but I truly that's what happened to this guy. And he was a foreman. And his grandfather, he's the one that I've done that.
Line 152	Henry Pena: But in the interstate gang. And I had the command that put the application that I had had to write.
Line 153	Martha Torrez: When you referred to gangs, you mean what we would now call maybe a crew of workers?
Line 154	Henry Pena: Yeah. Crew. That's right. Gangs before nowadays they call the extra gang from eight man. From under that section in take care of certain miles of track. Extra gang. They go through the district and they have to go. They don't go over there that they leader goes down. So that's the way they work that. And now they got system gangs, which if you go on that gang, you've got to go from here down or Seattle and clear up then great for you people.
Line 155	Henry Pena: So it's a system.
Line 156	Martha Torrez: So these are the different categories of workers... Mr. Pena, as a result of the discrimination case, once you won and you were able to get that job, did you feel that you were treated any differently after you got that job?
Line 157	Henry Pena: Yes. There was a change. There was a change.
Line 158	Martha Torrez: What kind of change?
Line 159	Henry Pena: Filed it or never tried to ask for a job or whenever I go to them, they agreed and.
Line 160	Martha Torrez: So the change was positive.
Line 161	Henry Pena: Yes. Okay. Yes. And they don't do that no more. Just like when I went out, engineering. That's why they done it, you know, because fake news. I think the government put a law in that they had to hire so many minorities. I think it's by not, retaining. So I was the first one here. So they call me me.
Line 162	Henry Pena: They didn't have no minorities on this book. Right? Mean there was some already work in my state. There was, college graduates. And I grew up in Spanish, too. And I really got in touch mentioning he's an engineer and he's, my nephew. She like me at school, high school education. I don't know if you went to college.
Line 163	Henry Pena: Remember? But he he was already working when they called me. And there was someone that I had to take their name there. One more Spanish or two more Spanish. Spanish.
Line 164	Henry Pena: And then from there on, they start hiring more minorities as well.
Line 165	Martha Torrez: Do you recall any I know that you mentioned Mac Lopez and Frank Chavez also working for the railroad. Do you remember them ever having, a situation where they experienced discrimination, such as you did?
Line 166	Henry Pena: No, I don't if they did, they know it came down in the, you know, did find out about it. So.
Line 167	Martha Torrez: Well, Mr. Pena, moving along here, I'd like to go on into the different I know that your background is absolutely extraordinary, and I'd like to get, you know, a lot more about it, but I would also like to know a little bit about your education. You did attend school. How many years did you attend Second Doctor?
Line 168	Henry Pena: Six. Right.
Line 169	Martha Torrez: And when you attended school, this was in the state of Colorado. Colorado? What do you remember about school? Can you describe your earliest memories about school?
Line 170	Henry Pena: Well, I tell you what, I used to shoot a lot. And I think I thought I was smarter than a teacher. I guess when I had spelling or I know she'd have it down and order and, you know. So I copy the word from in my desk, and the question was given the word sorry, like I was frightened, you know, when she was then she'd say, okay, hand your papers, send them up the front row.
Line 171	Henry Pena: That I dropped my mine, and I slid this one out and put this. So I did 100 every time, so that didn't help me much. So when I was on the street and honest, you have a story. By not learning to spell, I start. I learned that and, mathematics. I used to do my best by writing it to get a grade someday.
Line 172	Henry Pena: I know that I had to use that sometime, but history, I damn state. Imagine. Madison.
Line 173	Martha Torrez: How would you say you get in school overall?
Line 174	Henry Pena: Just to do, you know, an average, I'd say my dad pass every year. But one year that was scheduled from that 50 to 60. I was on six right when we came to Idaho. And in that calendar year I did pass. I used to play two nights in class.
Line 175	Martha Torrez: After you came to Idaho, you didn't attend school anymore.
Line 176	Henry Pena: And I went to a planning school at high school. But I was just short course. Why not trying to study because I until much I think I was doing good after that. I don't even know when I come back. They're still here and Nampa is engineer discussed in the case. I got 100 down there. That's what helped me to run their sentence for about six months.
Line 177	Henry Pena: Year. I used to make trips from here in Boise and we which and that made it from here. That whole day on Marsing. So I was there six months and one day send me to Cheyanne, and I said, well, why don't you give me just a job here, maybe on the ranch as a hustler, you know, they also has such a straight range from the ranch house to where the freight trains are.
Line 178	Henry Pena: I don't that anybody can do that in the yards. Just but 2 or 3. That was the more friendly lunch for us, which was a decent knowing. Is that or learning at all?
Line 179	Martha Torrez: Did you have to go out of state a lot when you worked for the railroad?
Line 180	Henry Pena: What are you doing on the.... When I was an ex trying to do better, go for went to Oregon.
Line 181	Henry Pena: That's one of their rules. They got to to go for that, which was one chatterbox. That, that school history. But.
Line 182	Martha Torrez: Would you say that do you remember any of the other teachers that stand out in your mind and school?
Line 183	Henry Pena: No, none of them, I hate them both.
Line 184	Martha Torrez: So you didn't you didn't like school?
Line 185	Henry Pena: I guess not, I guess not.. But afterward, I did like it. Sometimes I felt like on that one day I can, I'll just, already gone this far. I'm sure I'll stay the course. I don't mind, college. I could see where school is. Good, but my boys go home. Is gone to college, and, O'Connor got a job.
Line 186	Henry Pena: Was a railroad right of way. So he stayed within Asia. No more. No great migration. Or he went to a high school, but no college here on a tower over here. And then for Indian preachers, only 1 or 2:00. And it worked for I can read your books, but I wish one bank came. Boys. But I see work.
Line 187	Henry Pena: But they tell me, boy, we work hard. Our mind just too much pressure. And I show get schooled in the help. Too much so that I'd rather be working out there driving spikes and stuff to mind that bad. And this Ray he at that job in Omaha and they say, boy, that you say I hate this job. Yes.
Line 188	Henry Pena: So just sitting there and everything you say. But while your mind is, of course quiet or much both quiet and temperate stuff, he was in that right when I went to this engineer school. I used to get headaches and too much work.
Line 189	Martha Torrez: But when you went to engineer school, did someone provide that education for you?
Line 190	Henry Pena: Yeah, right. Everything. I paid them for the railroad. Yeah, I think I was told stuff. That's why I went or else I wouldn't, never made it. And then, they, they said I could have gone back again, but took time, you know, stayed in the books and I could have, could be an engineer. But then they wanted that, touching.
Line 191	Henry Pena: I was, but I am a great believer that I, I didn't want to leave my kids and my wife, but all I could have been Christian or Roadmaster or something, like making big money. But you're always that way. They never have. And I know and guys that are away from home and stuff, they always buy another woman. But, a whole lot of them to it.
Line 192	Henry Pena: So I don't believe on that. That's why I know that. I learned earlier Spanish and American English and, mathematics. So I asked for this time in computer science, so I learned Spanish. I didn't know on the first time.
Line 193	Martha Torrez: Did you speak? What did you speak at home growing up?
Line 194	Henry Pena: Mixed English or Spanish? Most. Mostly. Okay. That's why I say why you people never talk Spanish. I probably don't talk, but I'm not trying to pretend. ... They say it's your fault so you can learn in that school.
Line 195	Martha Torrez: I do believe that that knowing two languages is important.
Line 196	Henry Pena: It is, it is. I know it is the best I've learned. I think Spanish, I know a lot of Mexican people that I know why I think they're, you know, real quiet people in their top Spanish. You will have a pattern of that coming up. They're really mad, as I say. Yeah, but.
Line 197	Henry Pena: They they really surprise.
Line 198	Martha Torrez: What was the other subject I'd like to get a little information about? Is the community. Why did you choose to live in this community in Nampa? Yes.
Line 199	Henry Pena: Because the way we was treated, people were friendly, you know, like some nice, clean little town. But now it's getting too crowded for me at that time was just about 9000 people. Right now, I don't know. I tell my wife, I want to get out here when, she retires for several months. Charities generally care for your kids.
Line 200	Henry Pena: Don't come and see us anyway. So I stay here. What are the ones that have to go on sale? They're converted into oil for that.
Line 201	Martha Torrez: Where would you go if you left Idaho?
Line 202	Henry Pena: Yeah, well, I think I've gone to a nice, warm place like Saint George Street. It's an excellent place for. It's place like that, you know.
Line 203	Martha Torrez: Do you own your own home here?
Line 204	Henry Pena: Yeah.
Line 205	Martha Torrez: Or do you belong to any organizations?
Line 206	Henry Pena: No. Just, belong to the old time all time. There seem to. Go to start church. And so they. You know, I'm still in the movement. Cleaning lady. It's about here.
Line 207	Martha Torrez: In the state of Idaho. Which would you. Which city would you say is the one that you would like to live in the most?
Line 208	Henry Pena: I like third or fourth class. I like that place, but just seems to be too bad I left it once. I, what kind do I like to say? Well, kind of expect river fishing or. I like fishing a lot. That's. I want to make sure that anchor in the middle class or approach to them, that they're in one place.
Line 209	Henry Pena: But fishing is one of the.
Line 210	Martha Torrez: So how did you learn to fish?
Line 211	Henry Pena:
Line 212	Martha Torrez: How did you learn to fish?
Line 213	Henry Pena: Just by going out and watching people. Oh, we came to Idaho to ask me for their brand. We used to like fish there, but that time was a lettuce, so I stole it. I never leave it overnight in case the next morning. Which is real, I mean. But now they don't let you do that. But then I learn by watching people fish fishing.
Line 214	Martha Torrez: It wasn't anything that you did as a child.
Line 215	Henry Pena: No, we never had anything that that we couldn't buy stuff to do. It. We were all fishing. It had to be an open wash, regular stream and try it that way. But we never did it. No way to buy hooks first.
Line 216	Martha Torrez: What do you remember playing? What kind of games you just play as a child?
Line 217	Henry Pena: Well, we played cowboys and robbers, right? Hide and go seek... musical chairs.
Line 218	Henry Pena: Cowboys and a lot. I even showed my brother, you know, our heroes of one on in the paper. You heard about cowboy. You go on to tell my brother I didn't know that that was loaded. I guess that's where they got that song. I didn't know that much.
Line 219	Martha Torrez: And what happened.
Line 220	Henry Pena: In that one? My brother. Let's see who dies first. So I turned around the whole $1 trillion turn that I was a bullet in there. So I got it just one eighth of an inch and hit his heart. Just went through of space.
Line 221	Martha Torrez: How old were you when this happened?
Line 222	Henry Pena: I must have been a nine but ten years.
Line 223	Martha Torrez: And your brother?
Line 224	Henry Pena: He was, Okay. 13, 12 or.
Line 225	Martha Torrez: What happened after he shot him?
Line 226	Henry Pena: Well, I got scared, so let's. And now you it go get a doctor within a local nurse. And I thought of the farmer's place. He lived about a mile, so I took off running. I got there and the doctor say, farmer seen me cry and say, I want it to. And I says, I shot my brother. And why is he dead?
Line 227	Henry Pena: I said, no, he's not dead. Says Bleeding a lot. So I'll call the doctor saying, yeah, that's why I came over. Doctor took about an hour to get there from Carlisle Grand Junction. That was about eight miles out there in the farm. Seven thing. He got hit or bled to death, but he saved me. And, you know, that was.
Line 228	Henry Pena: We don't play cops and robbers no more than my sister would had. I know well, sister. And they call it ... about sixteen feet deep and five feet wide. Yeah. And we'd play, you know, see, hold, hang their longest cheat fragments from our feet and anguish down looking at the water.
Line 229	Henry Pena: And we’de holler that’s enough and she would haul us out. And I say who on who stayed the longest call I get a drop dropped as they go down there.
Line 230	Martha Torrez: Oh, those were scary games you played.
Line 231	Henry Pena: And there we. We didn't know any better.
Line 232	Martha Torrez: Did your parents ever see.
Line 233	Henry Pena: That dad wasn't married yet? But after that was after mom died? No, they never seen us. Dad, I seen that doing that later. And he used to read as bankers. We when we used to do some naughty or play game. That's where somebody got hurt. We knew our sister was going to tell him. We know when it was going to get a spanking.
Line 234	Henry Pena: So we get a promotion, right? And got it wrong and turnings all around us. So what occurred?
Line 235	Martha Torrez: How old were you when your mother died?
Line 236	Henry Pena: Oh, no, I think I was, eight, 7 or 8.
Line 237	Martha Torrez: Then how did she die?
Line 238	Henry Pena: And that she thought she was witchcraft? You know witches got her? Glad that woman died. They finally found out who the witch was.
Line 239	Martha Torrez: Why did she think that? Yeah. Why did she think it was?
Line 240	Henry Pena: It wasn't her. It was dad knew who this witch was. So one time we watched when she left home and they went through one of her trunks. She had all kinds of dolls in there with pins in it. So what dad was took out that trunk and burned it. And after that, nobody died, you know.
Line 241	Henry Pena: And there was just a woman that night when we figured that she was jealous of those crazy good husbands. And that was right. All the the men that lost her might say it was good husbands. They never had no trouble with their wives.
Line 242	Martha Torrez: So your mother became ill. And what? In what way did.
Line 243	Henry Pena: She, she start losing weight and, you know, like, person that got tuberculosis and stuff like that. Some think that that's what it was, but Dad thinks different. You know, that time there was a lot of that going there in Colorado. All right. And after that happened, but that done it all stopped
Line 244	Henry Pena: That's why he thinks that, you know. But the doctor never did say that he had that TB or. But that thinks that's what I was that’s where momma went.
Line 245	Martha Torrez: You were fairly young. When this happens what do you what do you remember about those hard times after your mother died?
Line 246	Henry Pena: Well, I know that we in our sisters, they took care of us for a while. My older sister was 14 or 15 and a sister, older than me. She was 9 or 10. And they learned to cook, you know, mama, children or a cook. And so they took our list of that back. Married. And we I talked and we, we sleep on the floor.
Line 247	Henry Pena: You know, last mornings, all three of us would lay a horse blanket on the floor and we would cover ourselves. We horse blankets, okay.
Line 248	Henry Pena: And it's a hard time, but heck yeah, once stole for too long the whole house of Kokomo still. So at night we fire that up and got to the house from. That last till morning. And in the morning we had chance to get up and fired up. Okay. And get the house while she always got up and going about having food.
Line 249	Henry Pena: I don't remember starving yet. That always provided he he used to work like hard, kidney stone and pay day. You know what year was $30 a month? And used to go buy all that washers when needed and stuff. So it left till next payday. But he's back to make himself better. Safe or not, honey. And, Yeah, I don't remember starving.
Line 250	Henry Pena: You know, we had chickens and farmer gave us the milk, too. So we had our own age.
Line 251	Martha Torrez: What was your favorite food? Meal.
Line 252	Henry Pena: Mean meal? Potatoes. I still like potatoes, but candy? Now, kind of. Kind of my diabetic system. Potatoes, beans, and sopa.
Line 253	Martha Torrez: What kind of sopa?
Line 254	Henry Pena: Let's see. They're yours.
Line 255	Martha Torrez: That's like the real thin spaghetti?
Line 256	Henry Pena: Yeah. And, Dad used to make it and sisters make it with hamburger, makes it. And that’s about it
Line 257	Martha Torrez: So, did you eat a lot?
Line 258	Henry Pena: Yeah. No, not at all. Yeah. No bread. We couldn't afford,
Line 259	Martha Torrez: Bread was more expensive.
Line 260	Henry Pena: Sisters and and, you know, much that they learned by the, you know, they test my site. They had a ceiling, and they throw it up and stuff up to the. Wasn't ready for it to come down. It was done. That's all you need to go in our heart. You see, you don't.
Line 261	Martha Torrez: That's how they would test the dough right?
Line 262	Henry Pena: Like icicles sticking up. But they learned them. We had dirt in the winter time before winter that go. By golly, I don't know how much flour cost, but, like $0.25. They're 15 pounds. They hit by 25 of them and stack them there in the corner. And it stayed over at last all winter. But then what was left?
Line 263	Henry Pena: He was a drunkard then, he'd go. Drink all the rest till it was all gone. So there was no more money to awaken, eat candy or nothing like that. So he'd come. He had a horse. He used to call him Shorty. And that horse take him to Grand Junction and he'd wait for him there. And when he got all drunk and stuff, couldn't hardly get on the buggy.
Line 264	Henry Pena: That one of those old buggy. But just say, Shorty, take me home with that horse of taking all eight months. My dad cried on that horse, died, and he got in my car after that. But I don't remember having hard times. We used to have the time farmers go by our house and they used to be a hail.
Line 265	Henry Pena: And we came through them like, and, you know, and ride on them and get off the bottom of the hill. Sometimes we go out there and down the hill and ride up. And one time I crossed between Napoleon and Cleo, cut my leg, and there. Good thing it didn't break okay to do that, but, just dragged myself home 300 yards.
Line 266	Henry Pena: Dragged myself home. Mom asked me what happened. I did say it just fell down.
Line 267	Martha Torrez: It was from the fall off the buggy.
Line 268	Henry Pena: Yeah, I dare say it ran over me. I think I still suffer from that. Didn't go to doctor nothing. Tell. That's that. Only time.
Line 269	Henry Pena: Yeah. They used to go by. Was a big hundred sheep. And we used to enjoy that a lot. We talked to him and he was happy to hear it because I didn't know they almost out on the desert. They stay there for a long period of time. I used to tell them they get lonesome and stuff, so the sisters someday has to give up tortillas and stuff like that was all Spaniards and know they talk the same as we do the Spanish.
Line 270	Henry Pena: So we enjoyed that day. Yeah, I used to think maybe someday I'll be a shepherd
Line 271	Martha Torrez: The sheepherders were. Where? In what state?
Line 272	Henry Pena: Colorado. Yeah. So we used to enjoy it and we used to wait for that time. You know, like the ball they come down, put them in certain places or else for lambing and then and spring time, they go back. We know about the time they'd be coming. So we'd wait for. So we enjoyed that week. I don't remember being dull, having a dull time or, you know, getting bored or something like that.
Line 273	Henry Pena: We almost had something to do all the time.
Line 274	Martha Torrez: Do you remember any other toys that you might have played with us?
Line 275	Henry Pena: You know, just to spend it? And of course, we did have a sled. And we used to make, you know, we'd make them ourselves. We had that hill with goats like, right now with that and the way to Hollywood and went to the next level. Summer, we’d haul it on our backs like donkeys let's go for a mile and get walking out the back.
Line 276	Henry Pena: And, you know, I was always busy. I don't remember having any other time. We got up to town, we went to bed and there no TV, no radio. So much for that. And by the time we got in the house and ate up the and that kind of tell a story about the revolution and how things went over there.
Line 277	Henry Pena: Mainly to sort of. And money.
Line 278	Martha Torrez: Your father was in the revolution?
Line 279	Henry Pena: No, he left He left before they got to he she might have been watching it. That's really left to mom. I got up late, went to catch basin, so he wasn't at all bad. But he knew that the killer was dead. So I go back and kill them. I know they never could make enough to go back after work.
Line 280	Henry Pena: When they start working for a railroad, they made enough and made two trips back. But by that time, them guys were dead. You know? But they did go to see how was the land. What do what do had thinking that 2 or 3 sections of land.
Line 281	Martha Torrez: Where was business.
Line 282	Henry Pena: And make a profit.
Line 283	Henry Pena: So what we were making here, we never did find out good. They us two years when he retired. But he used to send money to his sisters down me to pay the taxes on that. So finally, the last time he went, he told them that they could divide the rent by themselves. So that's why they don't. And when he done that, he never said no, no more running in that.
Line 284	Henry Pena: They used to write telling parade steady. But after that, no more letters, no more money, no more letters.
Line 285	Martha Torrez: What stories. Do you remember about the revolution?
Line 286	Henry Pena: Well, how they used to, you know, force people to join their group, you know, fighting just at that moment and how they used to kill people, but they didn't want to, or they thought people were spying on them. That's why they killed that stag. They thought that he was helping each other up and killing. So that's why they killed him.
Line 287	Henry Pena: He wasn't doing so. That's the kind of things that was going on. And. You know, they brought that rage, too. They said they love to give to the poor, but they keep it himself. You know, it's just important to life. That's what I can remember that dad used to tell us. Slow death quietly or else I don't know what I have to say.
Line 288	Henry Pena: I had heard came on that all the time. He'd have probably had a better life. And here, when he came to. When he first came, he came to Texas. He was there for Santa Fe Railroad. He was in that same page in Colorado camps said number. So he finally came there to Colorado and they to now where they made that chart over there and started working out with farm contract for many batted jail places, farmers duties, I guess at that time $0.10.
Line 289	Henry Pena: And now it was out of money anyway. But when we came here, we got a lot of work. A better we can. We need a coal.
Line 290	Martha Torrez: What do you remember their wages being at that time.
Line 291	Henry Pena: Where you come. All right. I think most of the people have been 3 or $4 a day on that, or something like $20.
Line 292	Martha Torrez: And when you came to Idaho.
Line 293	Henry Pena: Here, I don't really know hourly, but I know that all that contract work. So you don't know what your life contract. I, I know that there was been a lot better there. Over there. It might be paid. I think I was making 7500 a month, but I can remember that early for that. So. But it was I think this farmer told that I came to work for him.
Line 294	Henry Pena: That's what he paid a lot of money. That, that ain't much. Was probably is good. If we did keep on helping them get away with it, and we decided we count them instead of going to school. And was there a mistake? No, we made it. Told us to leave them.
Line 295	Martha Torrez: At that family. You described that, you know, your one of your grandparents or your grandfather was killed in the revolution. Do you remember any of your other grandparents, your grandmother and grandfather?
Line 296	Henry Pena: You know, on the mother's side? I remember, that grandfather, but very little I know he would work in a railroad call. Right. He was a very. What do you call that when you go all by yourself? They know. Don't want nobody around. You. A loner and a loner. Yeah. And he never did go to the house once in a while.
Line 297	Henry Pena: But twice a year, 2 or 3 years. Many leave right away. He'd give us a quarter 50 cent increase and take off. And he just stayed there, I guess, extra. Then one car I are you finding somebody short? And he got. To kind of sickness in his hand and you died. But I never did see him when I came home.
Line 298	Henry Pena: But yeah, I know what kind of car right up to several fatalities, especially, you know, I don't recall much about him or his history story. Stuff like that.
Line 299	Martha Torrez: You remember your grandmother's?
Line 300	Henry Pena: No, she died before I was born. In Mexico. I never did see her. Gets her, it had a chest. Of course, that, never.
Line 301	Unknown: Let it go in there. Again. Cause then, last time you went.
Line 302	Henry Pena: Back one of my other to have that. They like that. But then people with their on the side of that sister and then all of that, when my brother went over with that, those kind of go over there and take the land away from, or wait in the flow of guns in my chest, you know. So dad told him, no, we didn't come here to fight.
Line 303	Henry Pena: Is going out. Take care of my land. No, I live in a way. My land. I can do what I want to do it. And that's why I came. I came to this issue with our hand above. You pay and put away your arms. When you forget about all. They ask me to do anything. But they did. They didn't.
Line 304	Henry Pena: That's why I didn't want to call either I know, but they don't. My dad, he was a brave man who was afraid.
Line 305	Unknown: From ... Anyway.
Line 306	Martha Torrez: You have a lot of memories about your father. Your father? Yeah. So you were married at the age of 22. How did you meet your wife?
Line 307	Henry Pena: Well, I met her in Colorado, and I watch her for the marriage. They came over here after we did. For my four years at what they had done for me. But this place over here, 6 or 5, 13,000. I know it's a big house. It's about seven eight year old.
Line 308	Henry Pena: So he invited them to live there. But, I was never home. I was only 1 or 2. No party like that. And, I used to run a lot and train, but, I met her, on the field. So he was working one time to encourage, and we used to pull them out and put them in over long time and Uptown Funk.
Line 309	Henry Pena: You know, he. I stayed home on occasion. I was just playing. And she said I was down in the dairy. Yes. And so I ran over there and, put down, of course, let the kids go to escape. But. She didn't want to hear. Not. You don't want to be in my girl. Okay? And she didn't. I just kissed her that one time.
Line 310	Henry Pena: But I never came again.
Line 311	Henry Pena: And that's why I started up there in the field. You. You. Time went by, and, 2 or 3 years, she finally said, this is my sweetheart. And I. And around 2 or 3 years and we watched on down the street holding hands at that time where people are straight, you couldn't even know what kind. Some lady she met up town holding hands and me come to, I don't know, so you better send it back.
Line 312	Henry Pena: Sandpoint. So I said, oh. So, somebody told me it was all and split. Okay. And that. Right. What call, isn't it? So I don't like that you all get married right now. Oh. For real? I don't like that. I didn't want to. The fact she was too young came along at 15. And then she said, no, you can't get married in, state alone.
Line 313	Henry Pena: Try to want for I don't know that you want to get married or not. I've got it up to me. I say, well, that's why I say nowadays they don't care the same question. They know that out there on the road and saying that man, they. I don't know when all this started.
Line 314	Martha Torrez: Is this why you got married then, you and Jenny?
Line 315	Henry Pena: Well, I loved her and she loved me, but I wasn't ready for marriage. But said you, I am marriage. Go. We did. What kind of wedding? Which to have a nice church lady. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, took that. I need to finish by $100 to let me to watch it of getting married and married. He was great with my sisters, too.
Line 316	Henry Pena: They. He never let them know for free. That's why you understood my father. Not so that we had a nice church wedding. Right? Come. Reception. Then.
Line 317	Henry Pena: That's when I started.
Line 318	Henry Pena: To, you know, store this big joint, this stuff I said. And nowadays, we never seen a woman end up spiritually. We've seen one after your time to establish one man in the world. But now that's all you see.
Line 319	Martha Torrez: Where do you think this stuff comes from? That like, for example, you say that holding hands. You couldn't even do that, would you say that's.
Line 320	Henry Pena: Well, like there was a law. He was filled with it. And and you know, if people say something about, you know, your kid, they say, why that father don't discipline on them. You can't tell them that. And that's why I thought that he was, by the way, I was they just him. But I didn't know. But he he didn't want no bad talk or people tell.
Line 321	Henry Pena: I mean, let me think about it, kid. And then that's where I get it that he he wanted to be straight. Any worse? I know it was never. And that's why I think that he doesn't he will not be going concern about his family or anything bad about.
Line 322	Martha Torrez: Its culture. Something important in your life as far as Mexican culture?
Line 323	Henry Pena: You know, I think so, right? It's just something that every nation, you know, trying to keep up, going and they never they.
Line 324	Martha Torrez: Growing up as a as a Hispanic, they do you recall your parents teaching you about the culture or the customs?
Line 325	Henry Pena: You know.
Line 326	Martha Torrez: The Mexican mother.
Line 327	Henry Pena: So then I would take the traditional. They just let us go us out of the Spanish or whatever they wanted me to. And.
Line 328	Martha Torrez: You know, did you and your wife and your children celebrate like Cinco de Mayo or any kind of Mexican celebration?
Line 329	Henry Pena: You know, they.
Line 330	Martha Torrez: What family customs or values have been passed on to you that you feel are important?
Line 331	Henry Pena: All I think, think there were in the first place when only one of we try to, you know, they try to show us, in relation to which we got that the only.
Line 332	Unknown: Thing that I know that we have. To.
Line 333	Martha Torrez: You know, you said when you were growing up, religion was not all that important to you, but it is that now your religion important to you know, how did it come to be important if you weren't taught that as a child?
Line 334	Henry Pena: Well, like me, I wish growing up to be a like, you know. And at that time when I was growing up, there was that to children's game and stuff.
Line 335	Martha Torrez: Or was that so? It wasn't.
Line 336	Henry Pena: Pachucos. I used to have that, tail comb right there, long hair. And I had a big chain like, and that ball kind 45 and I, when I went to Arizona, I used to be a major, when the name came.
Line 337	Martha Torrez: So they were the zoot.
Line 338	Henry Pena: Suiters... And, we used to summit in Arizona, and it's always talks about 20 miles from San Lois. What’s that little... Mexico? way to go over there and, you know, steal gas and do, robberies and stuff. Anyway. And if the law get after us we just cross back to the border, back to the states.
Line 339	Henry Pena: So they couldn't proceed with that. And, I became worried about that. I could not I don't think that what already converted and changed life from my drunken to a different man. So yes, I think that's right. You used to tell me. But he never did. He never find out that I was going there again. Okay, so just my hair.
Line 340	Martha Torrez: How old were you?
Line 341	Henry Pena: I was, thank you, thank you. You're going right. 18. 19. And then you're right. And that was three years later. We used to do a lot of different things do with that, like, question. Was the court our last long? He said if the law ever caught up with us in Mexico, papers put us in prison, cut our hair and makeup, and all I do, and I never did happen while I was there.
Line 342	Henry Pena: The last year after I left America and got my first time there, went over that part of jail, and the prisoners put them all in America.
Line 343	Martha Torrez: What was the worst thing that they remember?
Line 344	Henry Pena: Well, I think of the album, the stuff that we really did was a lot of writing, but we never think about it.
Line 345	Martha Torrez: It was a difficult time in your life that you felt that you needed to be part of this group.
Line 346	Henry Pena: That you were born? No, I thought I was somebody I thought that nothing could harm as long as we was armed. You know, never tired of being there. So I know one time I stood up to a time. But six books, that made me think. But I said, let's not have a whole gang fight for eight later.
Line 347	Henry Pena: Settle among ourselves. Well, I know .... When I stood up to. And I was ready, but he was ready to. In the meantime, somebody called the law and kids start running around a little, hiding all over me. Now, finally, me and him are standing there the cops come up to. I want to go on on air.
Line 348	Henry Pena: Oh, nothing would just laughing. So always heard two guys for a I had a cane, but I said no, I was just gonna settle it. But me and him. Play this, you know. Well, he told us, like I said, it was a fight gang and a Mexican. So you better be careful. ...
Line 349	Henry Pena: Oh, I don't think so. I said I don't, but this guy's been doing anything. New. I will catch him on. There is going to be bad. We already got reports from the other side and he scared this guy. So we walked off. That time I was about ready to come to Idaho, so I never did see him. I heard that they got the whole gang.
Line 350	Henry Pena: I was just lucky again. So the good Lord knows what he had in mind. Approach.
Line 351	Martha Torrez: So you say this happened? This went on for like three winters. Yeah. You were about 22. Then when you finally.
Line 352	Henry Pena: There was that area left here before I got married. All right. Here. Candidate for the last minute. When I was 21.
Line 353	Martha Torrez: Why did you decide to leave again?
Line 354	Henry Pena: That's why you had to come to Idaho for that was ready to come. All right, so the meantime, in 22, when I was 22, work at the winter.
Line 355	Unknown: School. I changed my.
Line 356	Henry Pena: And while I didn't do it, the rational thing, no one could download my show. The Almighty God had done it. So that since then I've been attacking man. The 44 year place. Now for the for you.
Line 357	Martha Torrez: It's interesting that your father never knew.
Line 358	Henry Pena: You know why he was putting a secret. You know a secret never. I'd go out there night. You never. But he was sleeping when we went over there. They're sleeping about a block away. For weeks. This certain people that he met over there, and they. We had our own back of, chapel at that chapel. People ran to dance, or they just.
Line 359	Henry Pena: They just sleep there so we could come any hour, and I can call them. And so that never did. You know, that's how kept little secrets in. And that was it. Well, that was a change in my life. Since then, I mean, the church for. That's all. I know that for a long time I was young people. Later, for 22 years, and I was the same times and superintendent of Sunday for deacon.
Line 360	Henry Pena: And that's what kept me going. Right now I'm Deacon at church and my board member. That's not all that was brought to this.
Line 361	Martha Torrez: Have you always, belonged to the same religion?
Line 362	Henry Pena: But dad was active before. But then when he went back to Medford during the revolution, he used to go on there. And churches, best of churches. He told us that at back stories. Back to the point babies and George and Marcus and that preacher, the preacher used that was they had them all that changed all that. So he a doctor something.
Line 363	Henry Pena: That's when he came in. Then when he came to, he heard of this gospel, that show later in different parish. You know, he'd go to that church just before you. They came out the door to see if they had basements. They had things like that in the church. You never seen that that, you know, he's in a lot of what can be done differently than.
Line 364	Henry Pena: And train for. They ain't have no dumping a different types that's are teaching. So that's how it was grown up. He then of course was totally different cities had a to ourselves. So when they go up to see a difference in the so examples what I can recall that made me change in know drinking and then having to work with a cousin or it like nowadays I tell you there it's going it's a different life.
Line 365	Henry Pena: It's all I can say about culture, what I do, I believe that people should follow what they believe in. They're called what I never did. I know never celebrated for said to lives. Once in a while we go see the fireworks at night, stuff like that.
Line 366	Martha Torrez: Independence day, what did your family do? Or, you know, as a a family reunion or any events, special events that you would like to share later.
Line 367	Henry Pena: Or like birthdays, anniversaries? Yeah, we we do that. Just like last year we went to Utah and had a family reunion. And at the same time, my 10th last birthday was a lot of us went, so there was $100 that. And then, up in Utah. Then we had a lot of fun, play a lot of games and stuff like that was there.
Line 368	Henry Pena: But all of that long until dark. Then we had a birthday party. Out, you know, campout. Stuff like that.
Line 369	Martha Torrez: What's the most important thing to you about family?
Line 370	Henry Pena: That family. Right. And the most important is that, they'd be communication, you know, between us never to say, well, that party over there or that family over there, it's different that different ways we think that we should, you know, work together, stay together and enjoy the things that each family does or do. That's the right way.
Line 371	Henry Pena: That's what's kept us together. We're a family that for all of us together and everything that that's done, we try to be there for you. They try to be for us. Better. Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. Communication and love. We could.
Line 372	Martha Torrez: Are there any major events in your life that have left lasting impression on you?
Line 373	Henry Pena: And that time?
Line 374	Martha Torrez: Is any event that you can think of that is something you probably never forget.
Line 375	Henry Pena: In your family? To that once was that said, they not that only thing and then to back to being together. You know I never forget him but but goes on the family because if something bad cause I try to forget that and that's very rare. But the good times we try and keep that in mind. It's a good memory.
Line 376	Martha Torrez: Do you remember? I know you've described about the Mexican Revolution. Anything else about, like, any of the world wars, civil rights movements, anything like that that you recall.
Line 377	Henry Pena: And that about Lewiston... I think we've done a good thing. We're standing out now.
Line 378	Martha Torrez: That Martin Luther King.
Line 379	Henry Pena: Yeah, I think that's a standing thing that stood up for and that.
Line 380	Henry Pena: To do with that change in the world, you know, that this country is back in Europe, or are they changing from communist to democratic, their choice? Well, I think this has got to do with, you. In this war and, golf, I can see where you. I think President Bush done good for what he stood up for in that the whole saying was so.
Line 381	Henry Pena: And they believe that God was with him. How could that be? Was a man that local people and kill people? I don't see that. And that's why I know that that the whole world was praying for a true, God hears prayer and I know that that's what gave us victory. You know, that's got a lot to do with so World war.
Line 382	Henry Pena: But no, I don't think it's gonna stop there either.
Line 383	Martha Torrez: They you I hope so. I think everybody does believe that. You know, maybe there is something else is going to continue. But we all hope for peace.
Line 384	Henry Pena: You know that. But the good word say this when they talk about peace and and all that, when the destruction is going to come up on their show? I hope not, but that's what it says and we've seen it. I just hope that it left till I die. But I sure fear for my granddaughters like that of her, the ones that are going to suffer because of this.
Line 385	Henry Pena: No more than.
Line 386	Martha Torrez: That. You do believe that it's going to get worse. Yeah, yeah.
Line 387	Henry Pena: I don't want it to. But what can we do? We got the power or the world on our hands.
Line 388	Martha Torrez: So, Mr. Pena, is there anything else that I might have forgotten to ask you that you would like to add?
Line 389	Henry Pena: You know, I think very, very well. One point to what? All the events that I can remember, railroad kill there, which I think it was good for me. I learned a lot of things. I learned how to get along with my fellow man, how to work with people. I've been a foreman. Or, I mean, stuff like that.
Line 390	Henry Pena: I've learned how to handle man, how to run crews and how to lay up a lot of plans on the work detail. For being a dummy, you know, I think I came down quite a bit in my lifetime.
Line 391	Martha Torrez: And, you're very wise man. Mr.. Pena.
Line 392	Henry Pena: You know when, like I was saying, when I changed life, I didn't know how to read in Spanish, more or less in English.
Line 393	Henry Pena: I learned all that. I ask God for wisdom. And I believe he's the one that gave me all that. Because I know how to read and and try not to read language. Learn that type, know score. And, like, I was a leader in church and have been for some many years. You know, before I couldn't even speak in front of to people like you to.
Line 394	Henry Pena: I was, but I couldn't even speak. I was, tongue tied in no or no small. And I still was still, but, five, 11, 12 at time. I changed one. Has to think I am. I still ask for my protection in my life, even though I'm past 65. I know that small, but. That's a great change in my life.
Line 395	Henry Pena: Thank. I've learned a lot in the last 20 years. 30 years. I think I start marketing, I.
Line 396	Martha Torrez: That's I think we all do. Well, every day is a, something a new learning experience for all of us. Well, at this time, I would just like to thank you again for your time. And I always ask this question is in this part of the interview, but it is something that I asked all of my interviewees and that is, what is your opinion of what we are trying to gather as far as history, Hispanic history?
Line 397	Henry Pena: I think it's great. I think I to I think it's fun to do a lot of good and still and good people can wake up and see how people have been taught, how they've been raised, and what they've been through. And, and they'll learn what's gonna come in the future. I think it's a good program. And I sure wish that you can have a good, showing on it.
Line 398	Henry Pena: Yeah. Thank you. Well.
Line 399	Martha Torrez: Well, thank you again.
Line 400	Henry Pena: You're welcome.

Perez, Rita

Line 0
Line 1	Rosa Rodriguez: This is Rosa Rodriguez and I will be interviewing Rita Perez from Idaho Falls.
Line 2	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, can you tell me your whole name and where you were born and what year you were born?
Line 3	Rita Padilla Perez: Rita Padilla Perez. I was born 1930.
Line 4	Rita Padilla Perez: Here in Idaho Falls.
Line 5	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you know when your family came to this country?
Line 6	Rita Padilla Perez: My father came in 1911.
Line 7	Rosa Rodriguez: Did what? What, state did he come to?
Line 8	Rita Padilla Perez: Texas. But he did not stay there. I believe he went on to San Francisco.
Line 9	Rosa Rodriguez: And what was the reason that he came to the United States?
Line 10	Rita Padilla Perez: A dream of coming to a rich country where people could easily make a lot of money.
Line 11	Rosa Rodriguez: Why did, why did he move from Texas to, to California.
Line 12	Rita Padilla Perez: Where he could find work with, I believe he worked mostly with a railroad. So whoever that work took him, that's where he went.
Line 13	Rosa Rodriguez: And how long was he in California?
Line 14	Rita Padilla Perez: Off and on, I believe. Until 1925.
Line 15	Rosa Rodriguez: Would he, be in California and stay the whole year, or would he just work, cease and then go back to Mexico?
Line 16	Rita Padilla Perez: He went back to Mexico 3 or 4 times. But then he'd come back to wherever there was work.
Line 17	Rosa Rodriguez: And was it always California?
Line 18	Rita Padilla Perez: No. He went as far east as, Illinois.
Line 19	Rosa Rodriguez: Working for the railroad. Working for. And when was the first time there he came to Idaho?
Line 20	Rita Padilla Perez: 1919
Line 21	Rosa Rodriguez: 1919. What was the reason that he came to Idaho?
Line 22	Rita Padilla Perez: I believe they came contracted by the sugar factory.
Line 23	Rosa Rodriguez: And did he ever work in the railroad when he was in Idaho?
Line 24	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, yes. The Keystone at one time, he had work from Pocatello sent to Alexander near Soda Springs, then to Bancroft in or hum black food. Saint Mary's.
Line 25	Rosa Rodriguez: When did your mother come to the United States?
Line 26	Rita Padilla Perez: 1925 no. 1924 two came right after they were married.
Line 27	Rosa Rodriguez: And did they come directly to Idaho, or since your father had been here since 19 oh 19, did they come directly to Idaho?
Line 28	Rita Padilla Perez: No. First they stopped in Arizona to visit my father's sister, who lived there. But it was in July and they could not stand the heat. They went to San Francisco, where my father had a brother living and.
Line 29	Rosa Rodriguez: And then they came to Idaho.
Line 30	Rita Padilla Perez: My mother was a country girl. She couldn't take city life. And my father had to work night shift all the time. Her health deteriorated to the point where a doctor told my father he had to get her out of the city, out in the country that she was accustomed to. So they were saving for the trip. When my father was laid off.
Line 31	Rosa Rodriguez: They were staying for the trip to Idaho. Yes. And and, How did they come to Idaho? By train.
Line 32	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 33	Rosa Rodriguez: They came by train. How much did it cost for them to to come over?
Line 34	Rita Padilla Perez: I don't know, but, my mother said that my father only had enough money. There was only enough money for one day fare for one person. And my father proposed them putting her on the train and then bombing himself. Meeting her here. She was petrified at the thought of traveling alone, not knowing the language. So when he left to take care of final business, she cut her hair that was down to her knees off and pulled a cap over her ears and put on his clothing, overalls.
Line 35	Rita Padilla Perez: When he returned, he was aghast to the point of tears and. She just gave him an alternative. Either she'd accompany him or he could take her back to her parents home.
Line 36	Rosa Rodriguez: So he he brought her with him. Do they ever tell you how long it took them to to come to Idaho? The length of time it took them from California to Idaho.
Line 37	Rita Padilla Perez: No, I can't remember my mother ever telling me. But she did say that they they walked to the outskirts of San Francisco, where they boarded a train in the dark. They had no problems until they got to. They were on the train over the Salt Lake City, Utah, when the conductor caught them. And he wasn't about to believe that she was this man's brother, and told my father to tell it to the authorities in Salt Lake.
Line 38	Rita Padilla Perez: It's a good thing he had to tend to his work, gave him a chance to get off the train and hide under the bridge until night when everything was no sign of life or danger of getting cut again. And they walked. They walked clear to Ogden, walking at night and hiding. Sleeping during the daytime.
Line 39	Rosa Rodriguez: Why were they hiding and why were they?
Line 40	Rita Padilla Perez: Because they were afraid that if they tried to catch a train again in Salt Lake, the conductor might have warned the authorities and they would be looking for them on the trains.
Line 41	Rosa Rodriguez: Because she didn't have a ticket or because, she was a woman.
Line 42	Rita Padilla Perez: And neither then and neither of them had a ticket.
Line 43	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, I see in.
Line 44	Rita Padilla Perez: They were they were afraid they would be separated.
Line 45	Rosa Rodriguez: So they came to she he brought her to Idaho, to Idaho Falls in 19.
Line 46	Rita Padilla Perez: 20
Line 47	Rosa Rodriguez: 25. And he had already been living here since 1919.
Line 48	Rita Padilla Perez: He had not been living here all the time.
Line 49	Rosa Rodriguez: Just just off and on, off.
Line 50	Rita Padilla Perez: And on from there was work.
Line 51	Rosa Rodriguez: There was work with the railroad and the sugar company.
Line 52	Rita Padilla Perez: And the potato harvest and.
Line 53	Rosa Rodriguez: The potato harvest. What did, did your father find, job right away? When when your mom came with him that first time.
Line 54	Rita Padilla Perez: When they came here to Idaho, I believe they were. They had been living in town, and he was going out to work on a farm in Ammon. To them beets. So then when.
Line 55	Rita Padilla Perez: When it was time for my brother to time for my brother to be born.
Line 56	Rita Padilla Perez: He. They had talked to a midwife, but he had to go bring her. He brought her and he was going to go off to work. They had to work when there was a chance and a midwife said, wait a minute, you are staying here? Where I go, my, my father wanted to go back, go to work and do what he could when he could.
Line 57	Rita Padilla Perez: You said, you're going to stay here. This this is your first baby. But it won't be your last. Your there's going to come a time when you will have to know what to do. And so my father had to stay. And she told him told him why she did everything she did. And using sterile technique. And he did.
Line 58	Rita Padilla Perez: And he did use a good, sterile technique, better than some doctors and nurses that I saw. So it's a good thing she did.
Line 59	Rosa Rodriguez: And, so, so your your first brother was born. Your older brother was born? Yes. And what year was that?
Line 60	Rita Padilla Perez: June 9th, 1926.
Line 61	Rosa Rodriguez: And was there other Mexican family out there in Idaho Falls?
Line 62	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, because they had told them about this, midwife to contact.
Line 63	Rosa Rodriguez: The midwife was Hispanic?
Line 64	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. An older, elderly, very Indian woman.
Line 65	Rosa Rodriguez: I see. So then did you you did. Did your parents use a midwife for all of the children? Where were you born, Rita? Were you born at home also? Yes. And so how many of your brothers and sisters were born at home? How many are you in your family?
Line 66	Rita Padilla Perez: There are. Well, now there's only 15 living. Since one of my sisters died recently. Just, November 1st, 1989. So there's, three older boys, and I see so many. Sandra that died. Julian. All. Alex. The eight of the first night of the second. Alex the first. Alex the second. 12 were born at home.
Line 67	Rosa Rodriguez: 12 were born at home. And and, when did your mom start? Having her babies in a hospital.
Line 68	Rita Padilla Perez: Joseph was born in 1944. We were living at, labor camp. Casey out of Pocatello.
Line 69	Rosa Rodriguez: I see.
Line 70	Rita Padilla Perez: You know, all these other woman started telling her all these horror stories about a woman who had died in birth, and she got two cats. I think, to be able to have a baby, naturally.
Line 71	Rosa Rodriguez: What was the name of that labor camp again?
Line 72	Rita Padilla Perez: It wasn't a labor camp. It was just the owner of the store had a little park there and had cabins. We rented a cabin, but then a lot of other people came and pitched their tents in a little park. He had to. And in the center.
Line 73	Rosa Rodriguez: There are a lot of Hispanic people there. Yes. And what year? What year was that? That Joseph was.
Line 74	Rita Padilla Perez: Born 1944.
Line 75	Rosa Rodriguez: 1944. So how many of you live in Idaho Falls? Still? Most of you live in Idaho.
Line 76	Rita Padilla Perez: Most of us one sister lives in Boise. And the one that I lived in Oregon and dose of lives in Pocatello.
Line 77	Rosa Rodriguez: So the house where you were born, Rita. Where was that house?
Line 78	Rita Padilla Perez: On Fremont Avenue, where the home is now.
Line 79	Rosa Rodriguez: And you still have your home there? Does someone still live in that?
Line 80	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. My two brothers.
Line 81	Rosa Rodriguez: Your two older brothers live there.
Line 82	Rita Padilla Perez: They just recently the city demanded that their old house be demolished.
Line 83	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, and they have to.
Line 84	Rita Padilla Perez: It has been demolished.
Line 85	Rosa Rodriguez: It has been. When was that?
Line 86	Rita Padilla Perez: Just this.
Line 87	Rosa Rodriguez: Last year in the fall. So how so? When your father moved here with his wife? With your mom? In 1924, we moved here to Idaho and moved here to Idaho Falls. Did he come to live in that house? Was that their first home?
Line 88	Rita Padilla Perez: No, no, they they had been renting somewhere in the Riverside.
Line 89	Rosa Rodriguez: By the river.
Line 90	Rita Padilla Perez: No more between the river and the tracks. Where for the senior living central.
Line 91	Rosa Rodriguez: I see.
Line 92	Rita Padilla Perez: How about J... J or K Street?
Line 93	Rosa Rodriguez: And how long did they live in a rented home?
Line 94	Rita Padilla Perez: Until 28. They bought, well, they had bought a lot on K or J Street and started building, but he did not have money to complete the building. So the fire department made him cut up the frame and told him to move it out because he was a fire hazard. A man that he used to work with told him that there were lots up near the river that he could, buy and didn't even have to make a down payment on or what, settle for $5 down and my father would have to pay the property taxes.
Line 95	Rita Padilla Perez: So they cut up the frame.
Line 96	Rosa Rodriguez: $5 down for a down payment and a lot.
Line 97	Rita Padilla Perez: Great, sure. But they didn't even make a dollar a day. Then.
Line 98	Rosa Rodriguez: That's true.
Line 99	Rita Padilla Perez: And there. So they had to cut up the frame that he had put up for this house on K or J Street and move it to that place over there. It was just like a sand dunes with a lot of piles of garbage here and there.
Line 100	Rosa Rodriguez: And he built and he's the one that built the house ladder.
Line 101	Rita Padilla Perez: So he, they, they put the frame together the best they could. There on that place.
Line 102	Rosa Rodriguez: Who is.
Line 103	Rita Padilla Perez: They? My parents. And this, coworker of my fathers that had helped about the slats.
Line 104	Rosa Rodriguez: A friend of his. Yes. And he helped him build the home. And you live and you lived with your brothers and sisters and your mom and up there for how long? How when was the one with the house? Demolished.
Line 105	Rita Padilla Perez: Thank you.
Line 106	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, last year with you. So your older brothers still lived there till then?
Line 107	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, we built, a bigger house in 19 and started building it in 1965. No, 1960.
Line 108	Rosa Rodriguez: You just added on, or you built.
Line 109	Rita Padilla Perez: An entirely totally new house with a basement in Greek. The older house was behind the shop that my brother built up later have.
Line 110	Rosa Rodriguez: And you have pictures of your house? Of your first house? Yes. That your dad.
Line 111	Rita Padilla Perez: Built? Yes. My sister and brother took pictures before it was totally demolished.
Line 112	Rosa Rodriguez: How many other families Hispanic families lived in Idaho Falls? When? When you were born? Or when you. As long as you can remember. As far back as you can remember.
Line 113	Rita Padilla Perez: Just two, three.
Line 114	Rosa Rodriguez: 2 or 3 families.
Line 115	Rita Padilla Perez: That used to live here. There used to be a lot of Hispanic families that used to come from southern Idaho, Texas, California, New Mexico, Colorado. But they did not stay. They would just come to pick green peas and stay for the potato harvest. You know, some of them wouldn't even wait until the potato harvest was over, when, if you got too cold for them to eat at home.
Line 116	Rosa Rodriguez: And where did your your father work? Did he work all year round?
Line 117	Rita Padilla Perez: No. Remember 1936? He came over joyed because a neighbor had given him a dollar for working all day, cleaning up big pans.
Line 118	Rosa Rodriguez: I see, so he had to work at at odd jobs. What was what was the main job that he did? He did.
Line 119	Rita Padilla Perez: Some work. Started with thinning beats, hoeing beets. Then we would go to Driggs and pick green peas and come back about mid September and potatoes. And after the potato harvest was done, if there were any sugar beets to harvest, then we'd look at that.
Line 120	Rosa Rodriguez: And when you went to drinks, how old were you.
Line 121	Rita Padilla Perez: The first time? I can remember I was four going on five.
Line 122	Rosa Rodriguez: And how many brothers and sisters did you already have?
Line 123	Rita Padilla Perez: The three older ones than I do. Younger sister.
Line 124	Rosa Rodriguez: So there was seven.
Line 125	Rosa Rodriguez: A handful of, children. Did when you when you would go to drinks, you would stay there and drinks and work.
Line 126	Rita Padilla Perez: I always stayed there for probably about six weeks.
Line 127	Rosa Rodriguez: And where did you live?
Line 128	Rita Padilla Perez: They had, a place, a clearing in the forest where they were. We were allowed to either pitch tents or build shelters out of bark.
Line 129	Rosa Rodriguez: How many other families worked there?
Line 130	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, quite a few. There were 3 or 4 families that we knew quite well, but there were probably about eight other families. Hispanics.
Line 131	Rosa Rodriguez: So was that a self-made? Labor camp type of work?
Line 132	Rita Padilla Perez: No, I believe that,
Line 133	Rita Padilla Perez: Contractor made arrangements to a lot of people. To camp.
Line 134	Rosa Rodriguez: To camp up.
Line 135	Rita Padilla Perez: Camp out there.
Line 136	Rosa Rodriguez: What was the name of your the contractor, James White. And he was the one that would find those jobs. For instance, that job picking peas.
Line 137	Rita Padilla Perez: He'd, contract with, farmers, and then he would provide, all the labor.
Line 138	Rosa Rodriguez: How did you how did he communicate with your father if your father.
Line 139	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, my father spoke, broken, but very understandable. English.
Line 140	Rosa Rodriguez: And so you lived there for six weeks.
Line 141	Rita Padilla Perez: How about.
Line 142	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you did you ever work there, Rita? Did you ever help your your mom and dad?
Line 143	Rita Padilla Perez: The first time that I worked out in the field, I was about eight years old.
Line 144	Rosa Rodriguez: And what did you do before you worked out in the field?
Line 145	Rita Padilla Perez: Babysitter.
Line 146	Rosa Rodriguez: You took care of your little brother and sisters. And your two. You three older brothers worked?
Line 147	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 148	Rosa Rodriguez: And your mom and dad also? Yes. And then you would stay in the in the tent?
Line 149	Rita Padilla Perez: No. No, they they would take us in the car or truck and park it at the end of the field where my mother could come at intervals to check on the baby in nursing.
Line 150	Rosa Rodriguez: How old was the baby when you when you, took care of her?
Line 151	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, the first time I was left in charge here, my younger sister, she was about six weeks old.
Line 152	Rosa Rodriguez: And how old were you?
Line 153	Rita Padilla Perez: Not quite five.
Line 154	Rosa Rodriguez: And so. How long did your. What was a normal working day for your mom and dad? How long did they work at? You have to take care of your.
Line 155	Rita Padilla Perez: Farm from sunrise to sunset. Kidding. This could be from 4:00 in the morning to 9:00 at night picking green peas because it was under the contractor. And he said that he or she was from 6 to 6, probably.
Line 156	Rosa Rodriguez: And so then you went you went there. How many years to try to pick up?
Line 157	Rita Padilla Perez: As far back as I can remember until 1945, at least.
Line 158	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me a little bit about how how you how your parents picked the peas. Also, I would it would be nice to know how much the contractor got paid for, as part of his wage.
Line 159	Rita Padilla Perez: I have no idea what the contractor got paid. I think that we might have been paid about $0.03 a pound.
Line 160	Rosa Rodriguez: And was it in barrels or what? How did you. How did your parents.
Line 161	Rita Padilla Perez: Know they had, wooden baskets that were some kind of cylinder shaped, starting with about a 12in at the bottom and coming up to 24 or more inches at the top across.
Line 162	Rosa Rodriguez: So kind of maybe if you could describe to me your first memories of Idaho.
Line 163	Rita Padilla Perez: My first memories of Idaho was home. My father always planted a big garden in the nine lots we had. I remember walking out the door and, squash were in bloom. I thought it was beautiful and.
Line 164	Rita Padilla Perez: Dead. I had no notion as to state.
Line 165	Rosa Rodriguez: You didn't know there were other.
Line 166	Rita Padilla Perez: No. It was just a very small world. Just,
Line 167	Rosa Rodriguez: Idaho Falls.
Line 168	Rita Padilla Perez: And not even Idaho Falls. It was just one of my first recollections. Was just home. The lot, the fence around it. And we were not to be, inside that fence.
Line 169	Rosa Rodriguez: So then did you have neighbors?
Line 170	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. But, they were not, friendly, to say the least.
Line 171	Rosa Rodriguez: Why were they not friendly? What was it that they did that?
Line 172	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, discrimination. We had, one neighbor that during the depression, my parents raised chickens and he wanted my father to give me my hand. And my father said, no, you're getting help. We're not getting any.
Line 173	Rosa Rodriguez: What? What do you mean by the neighbor was getting help? What does that mean? Welfare.
Line 174	Rita Padilla Perez: But we. Because my parents were Mexicans, we were Mexicans. I got no help from Mexicans. It was told.
Line 175	Rosa Rodriguez: By, say, during the.
Line 176	Rita Padilla Perez: Depression, during the depression. And so here this neighbor who was getting welfare wanted my father to give him my chicken. And my father said, why should I give you my give you a chicken while you're getting welfare? And this is all we have? So he. Rondo chicken coop. They found a tire. The fire had been started on a tire and there were rags with gas on them.
Line 177	Rita Padilla Perez: And called the fire. The neighbor across the street called the fire department and helped my parents carry buckets of water to throw on the house to keep the fire from burning the house that we lived in and the fire department came, but they wouldn't do anything. They just sit there. They said, think.
Line 178	Rosa Rodriguez: They wouldn't stop the fire?
Line 179	Rita Padilla Perez: No. So my parents and the neighbor carried buckets of water to.
Line 180	Rosa Rodriguez: So how were you treated? Like, for example, you would go to the grocery store.
Line 181	Rita Padilla Perez: I don't know, because we were never taken in the grocery store when we were children. My father went and got the groceries. That was it.
Line 182	Rosa Rodriguez: Your mom stayed home?
Line 183	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 184	Rosa Rodriguez: And your father, never talked about the way he was treated?
Line 185	Rita Padilla Perez: No. Father never said anything about how he was created in the grocery store.
Line 186	Rosa Rodriguez: Or in any other place. Would he also go? How? What kind of clothes did your mom so for you in your clothes, or did you buy your clothes? No.
Line 187	Rita Padilla Perez: My mother sewed most of her clothes and. Hers?
Line 188	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, at the time, would you say that maybe there would be maybe one grocery store and describe to me I'd have off at that time?
Line 189	Rita Padilla Perez: I will. I can remember it. Is that on the way to work? There was a blacksmith shop where trading center is now on Memorial Drive. There was, the park. What is now the parking lot was more like a dump. A lot of piles of garbage and hitching posts. I believe quite I know it was already there, across the alley from taking center.
Line 190	Rosa Rodriguez: But, like on a Sunday, a typical Sunday. Did you have to work? Did your parents work on a Sunday?
Line 191	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. When they were working for an individual farmer, they set their own hours and they worked from sunrise to sunset when there was work to be had.
Line 192	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, especially in this area, Rita, the people, the religion that's dominant here, they don't believe in, working on Sundays. Why is it that you work on Sundays?
Line 193	Rita Padilla Perez: The farmers that we work for most. Well, I don't know. I know one farmer raised a kid. My father, he'd be a good Mormon because he had so many children. But that was said he was free to work or not. I mean, he was free to work when there was work to be had. They never told him he could take time off.
Line 194	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you go, did you go to church? To a church service? Oh, no.
Line 195	Rita Padilla Perez: No, there was no church. My parents, we prayed at home, but I didn't know where the church was until I was 22.
Line 196	Rosa Rodriguez: Until you were 22. And where was the church in.
Line 197	Rita Padilla Perez: ...
Line 198	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh so they had a church. A church built. What religion? With that being Catholic. And they, they had built a when did they built that church?
Line 199	Rita Padilla Perez: I believe it was built in 1944.
Line 200	Rosa Rodriguez: 1944
Line 201	Rita Padilla Perez: That's the new one. There used to be a church keep a corner from where the church is now for the school is playgrounds. Now.
Line 202	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me your if you could describe to me your, first days of school. What were they like? What did you start school in kindergarten? Was there kindergarten or did you start first grade?
Line 203	Rita Padilla Perez: Started first grade in the harbor, I believe.
Line 204	Rosa Rodriguez: What is that?
Line 205	Rita Padilla Perez: The harbor. It's place in Orange County, a little town.
Line 206	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh. In California? Yes. Oh, I see okay. So then your your family would go to California to work?
Line 207	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. And to get out of the cold.
Line 208	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, so you didn't you didn't stay here all year long.
Line 209	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, my aunt and uncle came in 1934 and kind of into my father to go to California, where there was work to be done. As it turned out, the only work my father could get was picking citrus fruits, and he turned out to be allergic. He'd get out all over it any time he got under the citrus fruit trees.
Line 210	Rosa Rodriguez: So he had to fight another job.
Line 211	Rita Padilla Perez: So some coworkers told him there was work in Imperial Valley picking green peas. So after that, we started going to Imperial Valley and on to Bakersfield, where there was work picking green face again.
Line 212	Rosa Rodriguez: And when would you come back to Idaho?
Line 213	Rita Padilla Perez: When the weather got, so hot my father couldn't stand it anymore. One time about mid-March, he went and picked us up at school and he took a truck, already loaded, head for home.
Line 214	Rosa Rodriguez: It was always exciting. Must have been always.
Line 215	Rita Padilla Perez: Like we were like gypsies and always looking forward to see if we show our friends. We would see again.
Line 216	Rosa Rodriguez: In the different towns that you would. Well, now, tell me, how was it in the first grade in, in, in that school in California?
Line 217	Rita Padilla Perez: Not bad. Well, mostly we were segregated in there. We were just Mexicans. No Anglos that I would call off and they had festivities and.
Line 218	Rosa Rodriguez: Why were you segregated?
Line 219	Rita Padilla Perez: I think it was the norm at that time.
Line 220	Rosa Rodriguez: So then what, you would go to a different school than the white students?
Line 221	Rita Padilla Perez: All I remember that there were no Anglos there, just Mexicans.
Line 222	Rosa Rodriguez: And the school that you had that you were.
Line 223	Rita Padilla Perez: In, that I think we went to,
Line 224	Rosa Rodriguez: When your father first registered you in school in California. Did he go to the right school he should have gone to, or did he go to?
Line 225	Rita Padilla Perez: I think we were just sent with our cousins. And.
Line 226	Rosa Rodriguez: So were there a lot of, Hispanic students there?
Line 227	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes. There were. Only Hispanics.
Line 228	Rosa Rodriguez: And no other.
Line 229	Rita Padilla Perez: Race. No other race. There were no no blacks there. Okay.
Line 230	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me, so you were in school in California in the spring or.
Line 231	Rita Padilla Perez: Mostly in winter. Just winter and maybe part of spring until work started.
Line 232	Rosa Rodriguez: So tell me your first memories of going to school in Idaho. How old were you? In what grade was that? But that would be still the first grade.
Line 233	Rita Padilla Perez: It was still. It was still first grade.
Line 234	Rita Padilla Perez: But I think I had learned enough English, probably, that I was not aware. And even though you don't understand the language, you get the message. But when we were in Idaho Falls and we were the only Hispanics in at Riverside School, then you was either. You learn to swim or drown. So we learned English because we were the only ones that spoke Spanish.
Line 235	Rita Padilla Perez: We had to learn to speak English.
Line 236	Rosa Rodriguez: Were you accepted? Well in the school?
Line 237	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes we were.
Line 238	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you have a lot of friends, Rita?
Line 239	Rita Padilla Perez: I can't say that. A lot of friends. But, we got along fine.
Line 240	Rosa Rodriguez: Were the teachers.
Line 241	Rita Padilla Perez: Good teachers? Most.
Line 242	Rosa Rodriguez: Most of.
Line 243	Rita Padilla Perez: Them. Most of them were very kind and understanding.
Line 244	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you, go to school there then? In the spring?
Line 245	Rita Padilla Perez: No. We started school after the potato harvest, and the beet harvest was all done and there was no more work to be had. We started school sometimes we didn't start until mid November.
Line 246	Rosa Rodriguez: But would that be in Idaho or in California?
Line 247	Rita Padilla Perez: Either place, wherever. If, if we went to California, we started school there. We were not allowed to work in the field, so we had to go to school. So we started school there. When we went there, there was nothing they could do before we moved there.
Line 248	Rosa Rodriguez: So you missed a lot of school when you were growing up? Yes. Did you graduate from high school?
Line 249	Rita Padilla Perez: No.
Line 250	Rita Padilla Perez: I just went to that fifth grade.
Line 251	Rosa Rodriguez: But your younger sisters and brothers did graduate. You were the one that had to help support your family.
Line 252	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, all of the older ones, had to work too, to help support the whole family in. So Danielle was the first one to graduate from high school.
Line 253	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, what was it like for you when you had to leave school here in Idaho and go to California? Tell me if you know how it was.
Line 254	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, we didn't have to leave school here because we were not in school. If my father decided to go to California, he didn't even enroll us in school here. When there was no more work to be had, we loaded up and left for California.
Line 255	Rosa Rodriguez: I think you had told me that you had started school here.
Line 256	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, actually, the first year I went to school was, at the Habra School in Orange County, but I can't remember too much. It's very hazy. And and then I did go to school here.
Line 257	Rosa Rodriguez: What was the name of your who who is the best teacher here? Who would be. Who would be the the teacher that you would remember the most in your life?
Line 258	Rita Padilla Perez: I like teacher, I had a good tell us California.
Line 259	Rosa Rodriguez: And what was her name?
Line 260	Rita Padilla Perez: Not just now, but she was very good.
Line 261	Rosa Rodriguez: So then you're telling me that you went to school in California more than you went to school in Idaho?
Line 262	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, because I only come. I went to school here in Idaho. Was the winter of 39, 40. And then 40. Five. That's the year that we were going to go to California, and they didn't get the truck fixed in time. So my father decided it was too late to go to California. So we started school after Christmas vacation that year.
Line 263	Rita Padilla Perez: So we went to school here in Idaho.
Line 264	Rosa Rodriguez: That. Was that a good experience for you?
Line 265	Rita Padilla Perez: It toughened us to face life's realities.
Line 266	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you have a language problem when you went to school here in Idaho? I know that in California, most of them were Hispanics students. Did you have a language problem here?
Line 267	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, we had to learn English at school because we did not speak it at home.
Line 268	Rosa Rodriguez: Was that hard for you?
Line 269	Rita Padilla Perez: No. I think we took everything in stride.
Line 270	Rosa Rodriguez: And your brothers also.
Line 271	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, my younger brother had a problem one time.
Line 272	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you go in?
Line 273	Rita Padilla Perez: He had had a teacher, Miss Muffet, that was very kind and understanding. Know the circumstances. But she had a heart attack. One time. My teacher sent me with a note to the principal's office. Looked had the sixth grade and here was coming to salt. Teacher had insisted that he stand up and say something in English. Say something. She still was reluctant, but she insisted make him stand up and say something.
Line 274	Rita Padilla Perez: So he said. But he knew. And so she was carrying him off the floor by the hair to the principal's office. I walked in behind her, and Mr. Bush was the principal. Tell her, miss, you are punishing the wrong person. She looked very perplexed, and I stood up and looked at the classroom and he said, all right, boys, all of you who have been teaching seesaw, stand up and apologize to Miss Webb.
Line 275	Rita Padilla Perez: They had been teaching. Came up behind the schoolhouse.
Line 276	Rosa Rodriguez: The wrong things, Well, tell me, Rita, how much education did your parents have?
Line 277	Rita Padilla Perez: My brother was kind of a spoiled kid. His father was well-to-do. My father was very restlessly. He got expelled from school.
Line 278	Rita Padilla Perez: And they hired, They hired private teachers, and all of them gave up when my father, when they finally hired an all elderly man to teach him that, was giving my grandfather good records, but by him, by my grandfather happened to come along. And here was my father pestering the professor's horse. So. So that was the end of the education for my father.
Line 279	Rita Padilla Perez: My mother did go to school to the third grade, but in Mexico, third grade, amounts to about 10th grade. Here.
Line 280	Rosa Rodriguez: They're more advanced in Mexico.
Line 281	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh. Very nice.
Line 282	Rosa Rodriguez: So when your father was in Mexico, was that during the Mexican Revolution?
Line 283	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. Because he was born in 1891. So.
Line 284	Rosa Rodriguez: And does he ever talk to you about them? Did he ever talk to you about the Mexican Revolution?
Line 285	Rita Padilla Perez: He didn't, but he did talk to my older oldest brother. And see, my mother told me some of the experiences they had.
Line 286	Rosa Rodriguez: So did his father. Your grandfather, did he fight in the Mexican Revolution?
Line 287	Rita Padilla Perez: No. He was still well-to-do. So money talks anywhere.
Line 288	Rosa Rodriguez: So he didn't have to.
Line 289	Rita Padilla Perez: Know.
Line 290	Rosa Rodriguez: Because he had money.
Line 291	Rita Padilla Perez: And, well, not only money, but he also had,
Line 292	Rita Padilla Perez: Authority. He was very good with the cape, with a collar. She really can handle anything and anybody.
Line 293	Rosa Rodriguez: Why? How was your father? Your grandfather loved to do. What did he do?
Line 294	Rita Padilla Perez: He had learned.
Line 295	Rosa Rodriguez: And, farming.
Line 296	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, he had people taking care of the land. All he did was collect ice and.
Line 297	Rosa Rodriguez: Talking back about education, reader.
Line 298	Rosa Rodriguez: How have, education opportunities for Mexican Americans in Idaho changed in your lifetime?
Line 299	Rita Padilla Perez: Greatly.
Line 300	Rita Padilla Perez: The first thing the economy increased, I mean, improved very much since the depression was over. And then we grew up and stayed together. So we managed to talk my father into allowing the younger ones to continue school and not have to take time off.
Line 301	Rosa Rodriguez: Was that hard for you to convince your father to not let your brothers and sisters go to work?
Line 302	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, I think we kind of gave him the alternative that if he didn't let the younger ones stay in school, what was the use of us staying home to help support them if they weren't going to get the advantage of it? Weren't.
Line 303	Rosa Rodriguez: And so then they graduated from high school and went on to college.
Line 304	Rita Padilla Perez: The younger one stayed. The first one that graduated from college went to work at that Catholic plant.
Line 305	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you think that Idaho's, Mexican-Americans do well in school?
Line 306	Rita Padilla Perez: Some. But I think there are a lot of them still have problems.
Line 307	Rosa Rodriguez: What kind of problems do you see?
Line 308	Rita Padilla Perez: In different teachers and parents that they don't care.
Line 309	Rosa Rodriguez: And the teachers? They don't care or any.
Line 310	Rita Padilla Perez: So many of them don't care. Because I remember once when one of my brothers was having problems in school and sent a note home wanting to talk to our parents. Well, our parents would never go bother to go talk to the teachers or to PTA meetings. I got the nod, but I couldn't. That's when my mother's appendix had ruptured.
Line 311	Rita Padilla Perez: I was in charge of my mother and now a two month old baby and the whole family. So I asked my sister to go talk to the teacher. My sister went. To a third grade classroom. The teacher was starting to get her own master saying expected to get just give an assignment to third graders and let them do the best they could with it while she studied for her own interests.
Line 312	Rita Padilla Perez: So when my younger brother didn't know how to read, and we didn't know it until he started junior high, and, and the reason we knew he didn't found out was because he had always, always been very good in math. And then he comes home with a report card with a you in math and so my older brother and I questioned him, hey, what's the meaning of this?
Line 313	Rita Padilla Perez: What are you doing? And he said, well, I don't understand. So he brought out his book. And here was the problem. Farmer had so many apple trees he harvested so many bushels of apples from all of them. How many bushels did he average per tree? He would have had to read to solve the math problem. And he did not know how to read any word more than two syllables.
Line 314	Rita Padilla Perez: So we cut him.
Line 315	Rosa Rodriguez: He didn't understand, problem solving for storytime.
Line 316	Rosa Rodriguez: So read out when. What was your first job? That you know? I know that you have to take care of your little brothers and sisters by your parents worked in the fields. What was your first paying job.
Line 317	Rita Padilla Perez: With, in the kitchen at that old Sacred Heart hospital?
Line 318	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you work in the fields with your parents before you?
Line 319	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes.
Line 320	Rosa Rodriguez: But that. But that money went to the family?
Line 321	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. That went to the family fund.
Line 322	Rosa Rodriguez: So that really would have been the first time you went to go work. How old were you when you went to work in the fields?
Line 323	Rita Padilla Perez: And as far back as I can remember, we had to pick the bias up. The potatoes.
Line 324	Rosa Rodriguez: How old were you then? Did you work a whole day or.
Line 325	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes.
Line 326	Rosa Rodriguez: A whole day. And, when your parents, got paid from the farmer, did they get paid cash or check?
Line 327	Rita Padilla Perez: Usually a check. Check.
Line 328	Rosa Rodriguez: And when you were at Driggs, you went also to help them when they went to go pick peace in Driggs, Idaho.
Line 329	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 330	Rosa Rodriguez: Were you, Also working the whole day over there. And were you six years old? And also.
Line 331	Rita Padilla Perez: I was left to babysit, and, I didn't work out in the field picking green peas until I was eight.
Line 332	Rosa Rodriguez: I tell you, eight. Tell me, describe to me a day, a typical day in Driggs, Idaho. After after your parents would come home from work. Were there. I don't remember if you told me how many Hispanic families there were over there. At the same time, you.
Line 333	Rita Padilla Perez: Were, about 12 altogether.
Line 334	Rosa Rodriguez: How did you all get together and, no.
Line 335	Rita Padilla Perez: No, we I think the men did. They said a lot, but the women had their chores to do.
Line 336	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, tell me about, you know, where you washed your clothes, where your mom washed her clothes.
Line 337	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, they dug up a well. Are in Driggs. They didn't have to dig very deep to get water either of clear, good water. So they dug well and we had to deeper bucket in to bring the water up and build a fire outside. Place stones to hold an old galvanized washing tub. And so that's where we had to heat the water.
Line 338	Rosa Rodriguez: And then did the family share that water?
Line 339	Rita Padilla Perez: We had several families shared that. Well, about six families shared that well, and somebody else beluga whale part there on that.
Line 340	Rosa Rodriguez: Was there only Hispanic family fair or what. They were other.
Line 341	Rita Padilla Perez: No. There were also Filipinos and and Anglos, but they kind of, went up to different corners.
Line 342	Rosa Rodriguez: So then when it was time for like a Saturday afternoon or Sunday, because you didn't work on Sunday at Driggs, you did work on Sunday. And I had a whole class. Yes. What was that like on a Sunday?
Line 343	Rita Padilla Perez: Catch up on the chores, do the washing and mending and ironing.
Line 344	Rosa Rodriguez: And did the, parents, visit with the other neighbors and.
Line 345	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes, they would come. There was, there were two families that were particularly close, and my mother enjoyed their visiting with them very much.
Line 346	Rosa Rodriguez: And,
Line 347	Rita Padilla Perez: Especially one family was from my mother's hometown. So they could always reminisce about old days.
Line 348	Rosa Rodriguez: And she had someone to talk to another adult. How many years did you go to drinks?
Line 349	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, I don't know how long before I could remember, but from when I can remember in 1935 to 1945.
Line 350	Rosa Rodriguez: And did your father go to drugs by himself before you started going? Before you were born?
Line 351	Rita Padilla Perez: I don't know,
Line 352	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you ever have to celebrate? Like Cinco de Mayo or the other? My, anything like that?
Line 353	Rita Padilla Perez: I remember one thing. We were still in California, and the army celebrated, Cinco de Mayo at school, but it was just activities at school.
Line 354	Rosa Rodriguez: Mama, I was referring to your family.
Line 355	Rita Padilla Perez: No, not our family.
Line 356	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you ever, that at that little area drinks. Did, families come together and have a dance party or.
Line 357	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, the other families had, a lot of others had a dance just about every Saturday. But we were not allowed to leave that area for our shelter was we didn't climb up on top of the truck and watch and listen to the music.
Line 358	Rosa Rodriguez: Who? When you and.
Line 359	Rita Padilla Perez: Your. My brothers and sisters. My brothers and one sister at the time.
Line 360	Rosa Rodriguez: Right. Can you tell me if your father worked in the railroad here in Idaho?
Line 361	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, but I he worked on the railroad off and on everywhere from Pocatello to, like, food in Saint Mary's near Ashton.
Line 362	Rosa Rodriguez: Yeah. I think you told me that you tape, How long? What was the length of time that he would work? How many months or how many days?
Line 363	Rita Padilla Perez: I think he had to take his vacation to work on the, potato harvest. But then, he was laid up for good when the depression worsened down. So the discrimination. So he was one of the first ones to be laid up. And after that, it was strictly farm work.
Line 364	Rosa Rodriguez: For when did he first start working in the railroad?
Line 365	Rita Padilla Perez: I think from the first time he came to United States.
Line 366	Rosa Rodriguez: And Idaho would be the first time that he came to.
Line 367	Rita Padilla Perez: I think he in Idaho might have been 1925.
Line 368	Rosa Rodriguez: 1920
Line 369	Rita Padilla Perez: I'm not sure.
Line 370	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. So then the depression of the 1930s. You were born in 1930. And then the depression hit and he lost his job in the road.
Line 371	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 372	Rosa Rodriguez: Did they tell him Hawaii? No.
Line 373	Rita Padilla Perez: But, if he was fired when he had seniority, they didn't have to give any excuses in those days.
Line 374	Rosa Rodriguez: So he had been working there longer, and yet other people didn't get laid off.
Line 375	Rita Padilla Perez: He did run.
Line 376	Rosa Rodriguez: So was that harder for you? Obviously it was because it was during the depression. But was he always able to find work in the farming community?
Line 377	Rita Padilla Perez: He was a good worker and so he always found work. If there was work to be had.
Line 378	Rosa Rodriguez: You probably couldn't tell me very much about the depression that maybe if you couldn't remember what it was like, you know, if you struggle there, if your parents had a hard time bringing in food into the home.
Line 379	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, yes. Like the winter of, 36, 37, I remember there wasn't any money. In the.
Line 380	Rita Padilla Perez: We just had vegetables from the garden. Potatoes, turnips, carrots, onions. But no, no money for flour. Not even for oats. A 9 pound bag of oats cost $0.09. And we didn't have it because my father didn't have nine farms.
Line 381	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, did you have chickens? Well, we.
Line 382	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, we had had before 1934 before we went to California, but they sold everything they could sell and then came back to the house had been wrecked because my father left. It could be used for any poor people that had no place to stay. And the knocked off all the plaster up the walls and it was all greasy, dirty, filthy.
Line 383	Rita Padilla Perez: So we had nothing but our little check in the middle of the night lots when we came back, and that was all dirty. They had to scrub with lye, and even that wouldn't bring that grease off the walls. Wooden walls. So that that year, that winter of 3637, there we were with the, one of my brothers was born on December 5th, and we had nothing.
Line 384	Rita Padilla Perez: But like I said, we didn't even have beans. There had been some beans that we had been saving to set feed to chickens or a pig. Come next year, spring. But my mother got those beans because she was nursing the baby and we we stayed with up potatoes and other vegetables. And my father used to go to that butcher shop and ask for dogs.
Line 385	Rita Padilla Perez: I mean, ask for bones for the dog, which we didn't have. And he'd boil the bones in with the vegetables, which gave him a little more substance until he'd swallow his pride again to go and ask for more. But then a Mexican man family that the farmer had let them plant all they wanted had planted Mexican corn, and it came and offered it to my father.
Line 386	Rita Padilla Perez: My father said, yes, I can, you said, but I don't have any money to pay for it. And the man said, oh. You just as well you said, just leave it there for the mice to be needed. If I come back the next year, you can pay me. So we had cornbread, corn porridge, and that made life a little better.
Line 387	Rosa Rodriguez: But, did you, during the depression, were your neighbors were starting more or just.
Line 388	Rita Padilla Perez: No, they they were given welfare, but we were not eligible for welfare because we were Mexicans and South.
Line 389	Rosa Rodriguez: And did your neighbors share with you?
Line 390	Rita Padilla Perez: No way. The best they did. Neighbor across the street had, pigs. He hired my father to go and cleaned the corrals and paid him a dollar for a whole day's work. My father was delighted. He came home with a bag of flour and a bag of oatmeal.
Line 391	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your neighbors tell me a little bit about your neighbors during the depression? Did they treat you well for you being one of. How many Hispanic families? One of three Hispanic families in Idaho Falls? Yes.
Line 392	Rita Padilla Perez: Others, that others went to school in Lincoln, I believe. Not that where we went.
Line 393	Rosa Rodriguez: On the other side of town. Yes. How were you treated with the neighbors? How?
Line 394	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, they picked on us a lot these, later, the winter of 39 and 40 that we stayed here in Idaho. We had a dog. His name was Moreno. And. My mother used to let him loose. Just about that time, it was time for us to be coming home from school. And so the neighbors were afraid to. They were afraid of the dogs or the dog went to meet us at school.
Line 395	Rita Padilla Perez: So then they didn't pick up on us for fear of the dog, but they eventually killed him. And.
Line 396	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your neighbors, would they come and visit your,
Line 397	Rita Padilla Perez: No. No, it was pretty much everybody stayed on their side of their fences. So it was one of those times during the depression and one of the neighbors across the alley, one in my father to give me my chicken, and my father said, why should I give you a shake? And you're getting welfare help. And we wouldn't they wouldn't give us any.
Line 398	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, the neighbor was mad enough that he put our chicken coop on fire. I found a tire and some rags soaked in gas, so we know he must have been the one, because he was so mad. Because my father wouldn't give him the chicken. And so he put our chicken coop on fire. But the neighbor across the street helped us to help my parents carry buckets of water just from the house.
Line 399	Rita Padilla Perez: So? So the house wouldn't burn along with a chicken coop.
Line 400	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, did you have a fire department at that time?
Line 401	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes, the neighbor called them, but, they just came and said they're jolly visiting from my parents. And the men carried buckets of water.
Line 402	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh. Did you? So were the chickens lost?
Line 403	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, they were all dead.
Line 404	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about, your transportation. What kind of transportation did you have here in Idaho Falls? For example? When your, dad would have to go get the groceries? What did he use?
Line 405	Rita Padilla Perez: The first I recall, we had, Willis Knight car had been quite fancy. Had, velvet upholstery inside. And I remember how my younger brother and I used to have great fun picking great green peas and feeling those great big pockets on, doors with peas. And then, that. But that car gave out. My father traded in for, one ton Dutch truck, and he built kind of a little box on the back that we were putting.
Line 406	Rita Padilla Perez: So that was kind of a part of our home when we went, camping in California.
Line 407	Rosa Rodriguez: So those vehicles were there, the kind that you had to crank in the front, that.
Line 408	Rita Padilla Perez: You had to, the car. Yes. But I can remember my father having to crank the truck, I see.
Line 409	Rosa Rodriguez: So your father must have worked very hard, and you worked very hard in your older brothers to be able to have a form of transportation.
Line 410	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, it was, essential. There was no way of getting around, especially with, discrimination. There was no finding, Right. Was anybody else? Had to be self-sufficient.
Line 411	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me a little bit about, about your older brothers. Did did, anyone have to go to, for example, the Korean War?
Line 412	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 413	Rosa Rodriguez: Any of the wars?
Line 414	Rita Padilla Perez: My to older brother, two brothers older than I served in the Korean War. And the battlefront.
Line 415	Rosa Rodriguez: How were how are your, how did your father manage when they were at war? When they were gone.
Line 416	Rita Padilla Perez: He felt very bitter because, the fact that when he went to ask for help to buy food for the ham for us, he had been told nothing for Mexicans. But when the war came, then the Mexicans were good enough to go, risked their lives.
Line 417	Rosa Rodriguez: So what were your brothers? Were they in the Navy or.
Line 418	Rita Padilla Perez: No, they were in the army.
Line 419	Rosa Rodriguez: In the army? How long were they? How long did they serve in the Korean War?
Line 420	Rita Padilla Perez: Just about all through. And, am I, the older one of my brothers had gone to Georgia, and he was, he had trained to be, what they call medic, medic, army medic. And he had been saving all his weekend time off to come and help the family with a potato harvest. But complicated harvest time.
Line 421	Rita Padilla Perez: He was on a chip for Korea.
Line 422	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, this year, did he ever talk to you about whether there were more, you know, Hispanic soldiers apart from hammer?
Line 423	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, not so much with, my older brother. He had joined the Army, but then my other brother joined in 51, and he said there were mostly Hispanics, said there was a shipload of mostly Hispanics bound for Korea after three months of, for training at Fort or near San Francisco. And but then general MacArthur said he gave the order he did not want anybody with less than six months training.
Line 424	Rita Padilla Perez: So then they were detour to Japan, where they got another six months training. And my brother said that without those six months training, they would have been dead ducks. At the war front, Battlefronts.
Line 425	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, can you tell me, the first time that you actually started working in other areas aside from working in the fields?
Line 426	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, I went to work at, in the kitchen at, the Sacred Heart Hospital. And while working there in the kitchen, they noticed they had I noticed that there was, class training for practical nurses was going to be starting soon. And so I went in as the sister in charge, and she asked me up, up about my education.
Line 427	Rita Padilla Perez: And since I didn't have a high school diploma, he advised me to go work in the nursing home. And maybe between that and taking a deep test, I might be allowed to get into training program. So I went to work in the nursing home and. One of my work coworkers called me by and by that there was, a program by the state paying offering to pay for training because they had such a shortage of nurses.
Line 428	Rita Padilla Perez: So I went and took the test and tested him. And when, while I was working there, I had taken time off to help with the harvest. And when I came back, they had admitted, lady, just a couple of days before I came back that they were having problems with to a Swedish and try to insist that she did not understand English and was refusing to cooperate.
Line 429	Rita Padilla Perez: I was the same assigned to take care of her, and sure enough, when I walked in and greeted her good morning and she jabbed up some to me that I did not understand. So then I spoke to her in Spanish and she talked back to me in English. Why don't you speak English? So the card was out of the bag.
Line 430	Rita Padilla Perez: She could understand English and spoken. So we we got along fine after that.
Line 431	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, that was in the nursing home.
Line 432	Rita Padilla Perez: That was in the nursing home. And I did take the test and passed it, but I still had that G.E.D. to take and, after about three months in to train the training program, my supervisor told me that they still insisted that I had to take that to the test. So she provided transportation to Pocatello so I could take the test.
Line 433	Rita Padilla Perez: And I guess I learned enough helping my brothers and sisters with their homework to pass the test for you.
Line 434	Rosa Rodriguez: How old were you when you took when you got your gene.
Line 435	Rita Padilla Perez: Was 28 going on 29.
Line 436	Rosa Rodriguez: And so then did you get a different job?
Line 437	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. So I went through the training and it was rough. At one time I was almost discouraged to the point of giving up. But then I thought, since my instructor had gone through all that trouble, the least I could do was hang in there and I made it. So I worked there at the hospital LDS after I graduated.
Line 438	Rosa Rodriguez: So you worked at the LDS hospital? Was there a lot of patients there that were Hispanic? Did they need your your ability to speak both languages?
Line 439	Rita Padilla Perez: Very seldom. Once in a while.
Line 440	Rosa Rodriguez: I see. How did you get along? Working, at the LDS hospital? Why were you the only Hispanic?
Line 441	Rita Padilla Perez: No, there was another young Hispanic girl, but we did not. We never worked together. Went to each other once in a great while.
Line 442	Rosa Rodriguez: How did, nurses treat you? Out of your coworkers? Treat you?
Line 443	Rita Padilla Perez: One of my classmates had avoided me like I had, something contagious in.
Line 444	Rita Padilla Perez: That's when I. We were still students, and my our supervisor could see it, I guess. And we had instructions that usually we worked with students in each department together. And we were not to ask any of the other nurses for help when we need it. If we had a patient that we needed help with that we had to ask the other student before asking anybody else.
Line 445	Rita Padilla Perez: She assigned this other woman to student to care for a patient where she would definitely need help. And I noticed that she was kind of very reluctant just hanging around and peeking in. So I finally asked her if she needed help. So she admitted that she needed help with a patient. And so I went and helped her. And and our instructor, I think, followed that, always giving this woman patients that she had to have help with and she had to swallow and ask me for help.
Line 446	Rita Padilla Perez: And invariably we got to know each other. And I guess she came to accept me. Then after we were done with training, we were offered a class in psychology, and it came out that she had grown up in the area run Lincoln, the sugar factory, and she remember when they hit the hay at the camp of, Mexican families there to work on the sugar beets and the children.
Line 447	Rita Padilla Perez: She was a child and the children loved the music and were very curious about the comings and goings of the Mexican people. But their parents had warned them to stay away because Mexican children. So. So she had always had that, fear and apprehension of being around Mexicans. Oh my goodness. So then we could understand why you her reluctance to be be anywhere, be anywhere near me or accept me until we work together.
Line 448	Rosa Rodriguez: And you got to know each.
Line 449	Rita Padilla Perez: Other, get to know each other. We were old friends. Good friends.
Line 450	Rosa Rodriguez: So you were an LPN?
Line 451	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 452	Rosa Rodriguez: At the hospital. How long did you work in the hospital?
Line 453	Rita Padilla Perez: I worked until 1965. We got a new director of nurses, and from the time she came, she was kind of breathing down my neck. And maybe some other patients had complained because, I've never been one to push my religion on anybody else, but, so many of them do. And they would always ask and try to push their own.
Line 454	Rita Padilla Perez: And I tell them to what she saw. When you have your just I have mine. And I guess I didn't like that. And I was told and warned I was not to discuss religion with the patients. And I sensed that there were some of the nurses were maybe appointed to spy on me because I could always see them kind of sneaking near the doors.
Line 455	Rita Padilla Perez: And eventually I was fired, not for talking religion, but for informing a patient of her rights. I found her crying her head up one time, and she couldn't even stop crying. She couldn't even talk. I just sat there with her until she calmed down. Then she told me that the doctor insisted she had to have a surgical procedure.
Line 456	Rita Padilla Perez: I told her, like hell you do it. Your body and you do. Or don't do whatever you want. If you don't want that surgical procedure, you don't have to have it. So they found out I.
Line 457	Rosa Rodriguez: Had.
Line 458	Rita Padilla Perez: Been there and assumed that I was the one that had advised her to do as she pleased, until I was fired on the spot.
Line 459	Rosa Rodriguez: So what did you do after that? Did, did you file a grievance against the hospital? And.
Line 460	Rita Padilla Perez: No, at that time, there was nothing what you could do. And so I just, it was in summer. So, there was a lot of work to be done at home, and I was uncertain what to do. So I just stayed at home and did gardening and canning and made clothes for my sisters. So in the meantime, I, I got called to there was, they needed an LPN at the Sacred Heart Hospital.
Line 461	Rita Padilla Perez: So I went to work there.
Line 462	Rosa Rodriguez: And that was the Catholic hospital. Yes.
Line 463	Rita Padilla Perez: And I stayed there until I went to work. Quit there to go work at the children's Hospital in Salt Lake City. I, I enjoyed working with children more than with adults.
Line 464	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, Rita, so you got your high school diploma?
Line 465	Unknown: And you obtain an LPN certificate?
Line 466	Rosa Rodriguez: Your other brothers and sisters, did they graduate from high school and go on to college?
Line 467	Rita Padilla Perez: Just the younger ones. Then who was the first one to graduate from high school? But then he went to work at, concrete plant jewelry. They go on to college and. Well, Sandra, that's next to Daniel, who died recently. She went on to college in Oregon and got her teacher's degree and title. Her life after that, until just shortly before she died.
Line 468	Rita Padilla Perez: And Julian got his degree, too. He's an insurance salesman and he was too restless, but he went to to night classes and his, pipe fitter, Alex did go to trade school. Electronics was not working as a fireman. Joseph went to college. The so majored in agriculture, but he's a bus driver at the side. Oh. Three younger girls who went to college and got their degrees or teachers.
Line 469	Rita Padilla Perez: Margie had done.
Line 470	Rita Padilla Perez: Studied Spanish in college and wanted to be a Spanish teacher. But, she even went to Mexico with a college group and spent one summer there and came back and there was an ad in the paper for, a teacher to teach Spanish in the junior high school, and she applied for the job and was told she did not have that.
Line 471	Rita Padilla Perez: She did not have the qualifications necessary. So. She applied. She went back to college and got her master's. And in the meantime, just before she finished, there was an opening for an instructor to teach the blind. So she went to work for the National Federation for the blind. And she worked for the Ed until she got married just shortly before she got married.
Line 472	Rita Padilla Perez: You know, she helps her husband in his business. And the youngest one of the girls, Lupi, went to Holy Cross Hospital in Salt Lake and got her her degree there. And he's working at the emergency. You used to work for the emergency room? I think she works in surgery now. And Tony, the youngest, went to a trade school in LA, studied welding, and he taught at that, right here in Idaho Falls for a time.
Line 473	Rita Padilla Perez: But now he's working as an engineer and doing management at the site.
Line 474	Rosa Rodriguez: At, Idaho National Engineering Laboratory. You have two other younger two other brothers that dad passed away when they were babies.
Line 475	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. The first one was six months old.
Line 476	Rosa Rodriguez: Was he born here in Idaho Falls?
Line 477	Rita Padilla Perez: He was born in California, Alta Vista in Orange County, and all came to Idaho. And then one day my mother given him his bath and went to sleep, which he usually did. But then 1:00 he hadn't wakened up. And so my mother went and try to rouse him, and he was not responsive. So they took him to the doctor and the doctor said there was nothing wrong with him.
Line 478	Rita Padilla Perez: He was just sleeping and gave him some teething lotion. But, he got worse at night. They took him to the hospital and the doctor said the baby had double pneumonia, and he was very angry that the doctor they had taken him to earlier in the day hadn't done anything else. And that was the time before antibiotics. The doctor told him his lungs were shot.
Line 479	Rita Padilla Perez: There was nothing. It could be done. They could take him home or living in the hospital. And they left him in the hospital. But he died.
Line 480	Rosa Rodriguez: And was he your one year? How old were you when he was eight? You were eight. So he was one of your younger brothers. And.
Line 481	Rita Padilla Perez: And then the second one, they died. Was born in Glendale, California, in 1941. I mean, he was the most loving baby, very smart. We came to Idaho and returned to California the following winter. And the next year. We were living in a labor camp in medicine and in harmattan. The weather was very cold and rainy. He got the.
Line 482	Rita Padilla Perez: Measles and you seem to be coming along fine. We still have blankets hanging in the bed, around the bed in the corner to keep them in semi-darkness. One time he it was like I said, rainy weather and cold. We didn't let him come out of that corner. I have to stay with him most of the time. But he was such a jolly, loving baby.
Line 483	Rita Padilla Perez: It was wasn't too much. But then one time he fell asleep and I went out to the corner. I was washing diapers when it was raining outside, and there he was, standing in the doorway, laughing like a he had outsmarted me. Well, he got kind of feverish at night and got sicker the next day. He was unresponsive. But when my father talked to him, he'd always break her in smiles like his old self.
Line 484	Rita Padilla Perez: And it wasn't until he got so sick that he wasn't responding. I couldn't see him. Then my father grabbed a blanket and went to the car with my mother and my older brother following. He died on the way to the hospital. On my sister's birthday.
Line 485	Rosa Rodriguez: That was that must have been very hard for everyone.
Line 486	Rita Padilla Perez: But then she had her first baby girl on her birthday, so that made it okay.
Line 487	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, what kind of responsibilities did you have aside from taking care of your brothers and sisters, what other responsibilities did you have in the home?
Line 488	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, my first cosponsored abilities were, along with my younger brother, we had to cut the weeds in the garden plot and rat roots anywhere would be a big galvanized washing tub full of red roots. And my younger brother and I were assigned to clean them and cut the roots off. It was a very tedious job that we hated, but we had to do it.
Line 489	Rita Padilla Perez: I've always liked the red roots. We used them before we had other vegetables.
Line 490	Rosa Rodriguez: Was that, what people call Galette?
Line 491	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, I still like them.
Line 492	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your mom make that, Galette?
Line 493	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. She would cook them with onions and tomatoes if we had them.
Line 494	Rosa Rodriguez: So then you had to take care of the garden, and and, did you help your mom with cooking?
Line 495	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, well, at first I would just, help with, sweeping the floor and shelling green peas, cleaning, trimming green beans, things like that. And, Carlitos never failed. It was always an ample supply of them. And then. But when my mother got sick, that's when I really had to take over cooking everything.
Line 496	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, tell me about your mother getting sick. What did she. What happened?
Line 497	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, the first time I had to take the cooking over, I was 14 years old when Joseph was born. That's the first time I had to take over everything when she went to the hospital.
Line 498	Rosa Rodriguez: And what year was that?
Line 499	Rita Padilla Perez: I was born in 1944 to learn history. It.
Line 500	Rosa Rodriguez: And then. But what was wrong with her?
Line 501	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, at that time it was just having the baby. But then when Alex was born, her. After Alex was born, her appendix, I think she was having appendicitis attacks. But the doctors did a blood test. Her blood tests and her blood tests were normal. They would send her home with a bottle of milk of Magnesia. Had the wrong thing to do.
Line 502	Rita Padilla Perez: But she survived. And it was in 1947, just about six weeks after she had marked you, that her appendix ruptured. And so then she was in the hospital for about three weeks and had pneumonia on top of the ruptured appendix. So then I hit the baby to take her up and the whole family. And then my mother, when she came home.
Line 503	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you ever, get sick, Rita? Were you did you have a serious illness when you were, yes.
Line 504	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, that's what the rest of my education. I had been in the fifth grade in Idaho Falls for four months, about four months. And then we went to California, and I went to the sixth grade for two weeks, and I was supposed to have gone to the seventh grade because our education in Idaho is higher than California. But I got sick, I started having severe headaches and chills.
Line 505	Rita Padilla Perez: High fever soon turned out to be rheumatic fever. So that was the end of my education.
Line 506	Rosa Rodriguez: At school year. At the time when you were growing up, did your parents, take you to get your immunization shots?
Line 507	Rita Padilla Perez: They gave them in school.
Line 508	Rosa Rodriguez: How long were you sick with a fever?
Line 509	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, it was an.
Line 510	Rita Padilla Perez: It was something. Spring. We had been living in Bakersfield, and the days were hot and the nights were cold. That's when I got sick. I thought it was just a case of the flu. Very sore throat, probably strep throat. We didn't used to go to the doctors for any stomach aches or sore throats.
Line 511	Rita Padilla Perez: And we stopped. On the way home. There was a hill all covered with California puppies in bloom. It was all orange, beautiful and we took a walk up the hill and that after a while I started getting kind of blisters on the front of my legs and. And then when we got to Idaho and started bathing, I had always, been able to work and keep up with my brothers and I never complained, but this time I was hurting so bad that.
Line 512	Rita Padilla Perez: I just couldn't, especially at night. And my sister, who slept with me one time was done to me in the daytime after we got out of saying, cry baby, cry baby, you were crying and.
Line 513	Rita Padilla Perez: I had always been on the chubby side and here I was, getting skinnier day by day. So my parents finally took me to the doctor and diagnostic with my fever and.
Line 514	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me, more about your brothers and sisters. What? What would be, a typical day in the bed home with your brothers and sisters. Did they get along with each other?
Line 515	Rosa Rodriguez: Since you told me that day that your father was very strict and he didn't let you go out of your the lot where you lived, so therefore you couldn't have very many friends.
Line 516	Rita Padilla Perez: Right. Well we had our friends at school, but, I think we got along better than most children did. I see there were some,
Line 517	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, once in a while. Like one time she saw was very careful with his clothing. Like to keep them nice. And he had gotten a new school, new coat for school. And here Danny, who was in charge of, taking care of the kindling, would start the fire in the coal stove. And the heater had used Cecil's new coat to go rummaging at the dumps for, tomato crates, then came home.
Line 518	Rita Padilla Perez: So Cecil was very, very unhappy with Danny.
Line 519	Rosa Rodriguez: How did your parents discipline you? Was there a difference between the way they discipline your brothers and the way they discipline the sisters?
Line 520	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, yes. We all knew. So it was very seldom that anybody got disciplined, and. But the boys, picked the boys. Broke rules quite bad. I remember one time my parents were napping after the beat harvesting. I mean, bathing suits and my parents were making up for lost sleep. So there were my brothers in the neighbor's strawberry patch.
Line 521	Rita Padilla Perez: I think it was a Sunday afternoon. The neighbors must have been a church. So my brothers were over there, and I was going to join them, and they wouldn't let me. So I went and pedaled. When they were getting whipped, I repented. I wished I had paddled on there, but it was very seldom and I was.
Line 522	Rita Padilla Perez: Girls just never got the belt. We got lectured.
Line 523	Rosa Rodriguez: So did you. When you were a teenager, did you go out and have fun?
Line 524	Rita Padilla Perez: No, I was busy helping with the kids at home.
Line 525	Rosa Rodriguez: What about your older brothers? Your older brother?
Line 526	Rita Padilla Perez: They. When there was work, they were usually too tired after putting in 16, 18 hours work to care to go anywhere. They did. My second or oldest brother at one time even played hooky from work. He went up with his friend and we thought he was going to get scalp. He came home with a bag of fish.
Line 527	Rita Padilla Perez: Fresh fish. They had gone fishing. My father was so happy to get the fresh fish for Davey.
Line 528	Rosa Rodriguez: Oh, so that was good. So. So how about your younger sisters when they were, teenage, did they go out?
Line 529	Rita Padilla Perez: No, they did go out only to ballgames with my brothers. But, that was all. Unless my brothers went with them, there was no going out.
Line 530	Rosa Rodriguez: So then they had to be chaperon by an older brother.
Line 531	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, and they were just going out to have fun. Observe. But not, what you would call dating.
Line 532	Rosa Rodriguez: I see. So, they went to the ballgames. What kind of volumes were there?
Line 533	Rita Padilla Perez: Baseball. Football.
Line 534	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your brothers play in those games?
Line 535	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, one of my brothers, Danny, started. But then when he had to take time off for harvesting again all summer long where they were practicing, they decide what you call it was not, allowed to be in the team if you couldn't be there all the time.
Line 536	Rosa Rodriguez: If you didn't make it to the practice. He was.
Line 537	Rita Padilla Perez: Disqualified.
Line 538	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about your home. How many, rooms were there in your home?
Line 539	Rita Padilla Perez: In your house? Well, the original was ten by 16. And then my father ate it, before I was born. As far back as I can remember, that's where we were quarantined when we had the chicken pox and missiles in the winter of 3637. It was made up of railroad ties, kind of like a log house with, wood on the top and that dirt for insulation.
Line 540	Rita Padilla Perez: And then in 39, he added another addition to the whole front of the place. That was about 12 by 24. So that was the size of the house, very crowded. But we managed.
Line 541	Rosa Rodriguez: Well. Did you have, other relatives living with you, or did you, by yourself?
Line 542	Rita Padilla Perez: No, one of my father's, brothers came and live with us. Grew up. Well, there was always room for one more.
Line 543	Rosa Rodriguez: And did he come to work in the potato harvester thing, beans or.
Line 544	Rita Padilla Perez: No, no, it was when we were older and he was sick when he came.
Line 545	Rosa Rodriguez: I see how. What year was that? You remember?
Line 546	Rita Padilla Perez: Must have been around 50, 53, 54.
Line 547	Rosa Rodriguez: And, did you celebrate as you were growing up? Did you celebrate any any or occasion like,
Line 548	Rita Padilla Perez: Generous or. No, we were far removed from that.
Line 549	Rosa Rodriguez: How about, what would you do on Father's Day or Mother's Day?
Line 550	Rita Padilla Perez: Just happy Mother's Day or happy Father's Day. Than if we had the means with by some little thing for my mother.
Line 551	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, how long did you live with your parents?
Line 552	Rita Padilla Perez: Right up until I went to Salt Lake in 1965. I see,
Line 553	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you have someone outside from the home that you, respected? Very much? Aside from your parents?
Line 554	Rita Padilla Perez: I like my father. Sister lived in California very much. And her eldest daughter, Mary, I think the world of her, she was more like a sister or almost a second mother.
Line 555	Rita Padilla Perez: Was very kind and understanding to us. And, principle that we had that day, Riverside School in Idaho Falls. Mr. Bush,
Line 556	Rosa Rodriguez: The, principal at your school.
Line 557	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes.
Line 558	Rosa Rodriguez: And tell me why you respected him so much.
Line 559	Rita Padilla Perez: Well, one winter, a boy who was, head and shoulders taller than my brother had been picking on him all through the winter. I mean, the spring, something snapped. My brother had had all he could take, and he grabbed this boy and just banged his head against the back of a tree until he was bleeding and the boy was bellowing.
Line 560	Rita Padilla Perez: Mr. Bush was up there looking out, watching from the second floor window, and he didn't do anything to stop my brother. Well, the bell rang. It was during the lunchtime recess, and that saved the boy. He went home crying. My brother went into the classroom. So here comes the boy's mother. Arena for cold means they must have had money.
Line 561	Rita Padilla Perez: Was demanding that my brother be expelled from school. Let me. Mr. Bush told her that she needed to teach her son to respect others. My brother had put up with his.
Line 562	Rita Padilla Perez: Lack of respect all winter long. So my brother had finally given him his due.
Line 563	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay, what is the most important? Thing that you value in your family?
Line 564	Rita Padilla Perez: Okay.
Line 565	Rosa Rodriguez: And, what family customs or values have been passed on to you?
Line 566	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, well, we tried to get together at Christmas, New Years, and sometimes for birthdays and basketball.
Line 567	Rosa Rodriguez: And family reunions. Would that be your immediate family or uncles and aunts?
Line 568	Rita Padilla Perez: No. The uncle to answer. Just about all gone. So it's it's just the immediate family, brothers and sisters.
Line 569	Rosa Rodriguez: Now what about your cousins at left in California?
Line 570	Rita Padilla Perez: Oh, they've come to visit once in a blue moon and somewhere other than that, they've only come for weddings and funerals.
Line 571	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, Rita, I know that you, are always saying special expressions are saying. Sir, that I'm sure your father used to say to you what would be, special singing or expression that has been passed on down to, you know.
Line 572	Rita Padilla Perez: Yeah, there was that one.
Line 573	Rita Padilla Perez: They sang not on a ladder. They cut me. Which means a drop of blood is worth more than a ton of flesh, meaning that those at once on race are more likely to be helpful and understanding and compassionate. But then there was also another one. Quote. No, I can you must mala el mismo palo la. Meaning there's no.
Line 574	Rita Padilla Perez: Nail worse than the one from the same one. That's meaning that, those of our own are more likely to hurt us. The worst. Whether be our own race or our own family.
Line 575	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you feel that it's important to maintain the customs and traditions of your ancestors?
Line 576	Rita Padilla Perez: I think it is important, but I think it's dying out with this generation.
Line 577	Rosa Rodriguez: You're talking about the generation of, your nieces and.
Line 578	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes, like my brothers and sisters, children are not at all interested in, Mexican celebrations, activities. They. Oh, like tortillas and tamales, but, some of them. But as far as, festivities, we don't care for them.
Line 579	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, Rita, you you were never married, right? Okay. So you don't have children of your own. What was the reason that you never married?
Line 580	Rita Padilla Perez: I was going to be. I was in the country for 13 months. But I got homesick.
Line 581	Rosa Rodriguez: And I came home.
Line 582	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, can you, remember the, the first, Mexican American, celebration that you attended?
Line 583	Rita Padilla Perez: I didn't really attend, but, we were living at that labor camp in Driggs. Nicholas. The 16th of September. Very unusual that, work was still going on until there we were in. So the Mexican families got together and they made, barbecue looked, cheap and pigs and the best barbecue I ever had. And they had dance and music.
Line 584	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, did their own workers. They played like, for example, you say they had dances. Did did they play?
Line 585	Rita Padilla Perez: They yes, they had their guitars mainly. And accordions, violins, horns.
Line 586	Rosa Rodriguez: Beautiful sounds and, and the, they just dance there on the.
Line 587	Rita Padilla Perez: On the hard packed ground.
Line 588	Rosa Rodriguez: Well, how has Mexican American culture changed in Idaho?
Line 589	Rita Padilla Perez: For us, not much, because we have hardly ever been partakers that I know.
Line 590	Unknown: I see,
Line 591	Rosa Rodriguez: How do you define yourself? Read. Do you consider yourself a Mexican, Mexican, American, Hispanic or Latino?
Line 592	Rita Padilla Perez: Mexican? My father said your mother and I are Mexican. We're from Mexico. If any of you deny being Mexicans, you're denying the mother, the parents that give you life.
Line 593	Rosa Rodriguez: So how has this identification influenced you?
Line 594	Rita Padilla Perez: I'm a Mexican. If anybody doesn't like it or has no respect for me because of that, that's their problem.
Line 595	Rosa Rodriguez: Is the ability to speak Spanish important to you?
Line 596	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. I have been able to have help a lot of people translating for them. Otherwise somebody else might not have done so.
Line 597	Rosa Rodriguez: Have any of your, family members or yourself, have you experienced any, racial discrimination or other type of discrimination? And I.
Line 598	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. I think that was the main mission. I was fired at the hospital.
Line 599	Rosa Rodriguez: What about your, other brothers and sisters?
Line 600	Rita Padilla Perez: Yes. My brother and one of my nieces had problems at the side, and. But they were straightened out.
Line 601	Rosa Rodriguez: Now, the the time you were fired at the hospital, that would probably not be a racial one. It would be a religious discrimination.
Line 602	Rita Padilla Perez: I think it was both a combination like, we had worked for. I mean, it it right now, what's the representing the fireman, when he hurt his back and could not do the work anymore, or the owner asked him about somebody to work or play. So he said, yes, my in Los neighbors are very good workers and respect the ground.
Line 603	Rita Padilla Perez: They the ideal. They have worked on the place. And she answered with I happen to know who they are. Not only are they Mexicans, they're also Catholics. And they saw that it was out. It was a beautiful place. Looked like, something out of a picture book and.
Line 604	Rosa Rodriguez: This is Rosa Rodriguez in Idaho Falls. I'm interviewing Rita Perez.
Line 605	Rosa Rodriguez: This is tape number two. Rita, can you tell me a little bit about your feelings? And, restrictions to immigration from Mexico?
Line 606	Rita Padilla Perez: It's very simple. If, there would be no need for restrictions if the money exchange was more recent on both. Right now, I believe it's about, $2,500 to a dollar. They can come here and spend the season and make enough to buy a house or a car, which they cannot do in Mexico. Besides, all of the produce in Mexico is being sold to United States for dollar value.
Line 607	Rita Padilla Perez: People are working for pesos. Can no way pay a dollar values for produce over there. So they have to come to United States in order to get dollars to pay dollar value for their money to survive.
Line 608	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, can you tell me a little bit more about when your father came to work in the railroad? When he traveled from Mexico to California.
Line 609	Rita Padilla Perez: What I heard was that he. He went as far east working with a railroad and then back to Nevada the first time he was here.
Line 610	Rosa Rodriguez: What year was that, Rita?
Line 611	Rita Padilla Perez: I not sure, but it was, sometime between the before the 20s. Anyway, when the work was he had done send his, paycheck home. And then they were told, that's a boy. So here he was, without the money or provisions.
Line 612	Rosa Rodriguez: And for West he in Nevada.
Line 613	Rita Padilla Perez: Nevada. So he started working south. Tired, hungry, thirsty. He came to where there was a store in the desert. There was a pile of wood that needed to be chopped. So he approached, trying to sign language that he would chop the wood in exchange for food.
Line 614	Rita Padilla Perez: For the proprietor, sic the dogs on him. He dragged on until the dogs were called off and set to rest. Wandering if he would die of starvation in this land that he had. Once that so raged, the streets were paved with marble, and the buildings made of gold. Eventually a group of Mexicans came by and shared their provisions with them, invited him to join them on the tracks out which he did.
Line 615	Rita Padilla Perez: He found work and stayed just long enough to earn money to return to his homeland, disillusioned and determined never to return to this land where dogs were well-fed but human beings would starve or be torn to pieces by dogs. He had seen this at work, where the minority workers were assigned that dangerous work without any provisions made for their safety or survival.
Line 616	Rita Padilla Perez: So, he came home, and because the revolution was raging on in Mexico, his father told him that he was bad enough man killing man. But when brothers were killing brothers over political dissent, he would not hear his son take part in the phrase. The only way to prevent these was not to be there. So he ordered him back to the United States, even offering financial assistance if necessary.
Line 617	Rita Padilla Perez: So he was at my father returned to the United States again, working on the railroad, which brought him to Idaho for the first time in 1919. He returned again in 20 1921 and again in 1923.
Line 618	Rosa Rodriguez: Rita, how much would your father get paid on a normal working day? I don't know if you've already answered me. That question was working in the railroad.
Line 619	Rita Padilla Perez: It wasn't very much. But I know when I started working and was getting about $0.90 an hour, and when my pay was raised to a dollar, he said he had to work for a dollar a day and not just eight hours, but 12 16 hours the day for a dollar.
Line 620	Rosa Rodriguez: When he worked in the railroad.
Line 621	Rita Padilla Perez: He in 1924, he returned to Mexico and married my mother, Rosa, for the, June 5th, 1924, promising her not to return to the United States. He had started a business, but when he voted openly for a man or party that the townspeople did not approve of, his business was boycotted, and he was persecuted. So he returned to the United States in July 1924, with his bride coming first to Arizona, where they visited his sister that it was too much, neither of them could endure it.
Line 622	Rita Padilla Perez: They went to San Francisco, where my father's brother was living and working. My father found working in the sugar factory, but had to work the night shift all the time, leaving his 16 year old bride alone and lonely. Her health deteriorated in the damp climate and in low altitude of this area, to the point where a doctor told my father that she needed to be returned to the country that she was accustomed to if she was to survive.
Line 623	Rita Padilla Perez: They were saving for this trip. When my father was laid off from work, there was only money for one train fare to ride a home.
Line 624	Rosa Rodriguez: So then they weren't going to go back to Mexico. They were going to come to Idaho.
Line 625	Rita Padilla Perez: They were going to come to Idaho. So my father proposed boarding my mother on the train and bombing rights on the train himself. And my mother was petrified at the thought of traveling by herself without knowing the language. So when my father left apartment to take her final business, she went to work. She cut off her knee length hair, pulled a cap down over her ears, put on my father's clothing and overalls.
Line 626	Rita Padilla Perez: She was ready to travel with him as his brother. When he came and saw here he was. I got to tears. But he gave him that alternative. Either she would accompany him or he could take her back to her parents home, so he had no choice but to yield to her demand. They walked to the outskirts of San Francisco where they could afford it, a train in the dark, meaning they didn't pay.
Line 627	Rita Padilla Perez: They had no problems until they were on a bridge over the Salt Lake City, Utah. I think it was dusk when a conductor cut them. He knew my mother was not this man's brother told my father to tell it to the authorities in Salt Lake City. It's a good thing the conductor had to go attend to his work, gave them a chance to escape and hide under the bridge until dark.
Line 628	Rita Padilla Perez: Then in the dark of night, when there was no sign of lying around, they walked at night they slept in hiding during the day. And they walked too often. They were afraid to try bombing right on the train again, for fear of being caught. That the conductor might have alerted the authorities. But they got to Ogden, where they again boarded a train in the dark.
Line 629	Rita Padilla Perez: So my mother first. So my mother came to Idaho, Pocatello, Idaho, for the first time in the spring, probably March 1925, I don't know, 1925. That's where it ended. It came to Idaho Falls. But my father worked on the railroad around Pocatello for quite a while, so I might have been 1924.
Line 630	Rosa Rodriguez: Thank you. Rita.

Ramos, Ofilia

Line 0
Line 1	Rosa Rodriguez: This is Rosa Rodriguez and I will be interviewing Ofilia Lott-Ramos in I don't know if I was Ofilia, where were you born?
Line 2	Ofilia Ramos: I was born in Spofford, Texas, February 9th, 1943.
Line 3	Rosa Rodriguez: And, how did your family come to this country?
Line 4	Ofilia Ramos: My father was here sometime and around 1910. And then he married my mom in 1929.
Line 5	Rosa Rodriguez: Where did he marry her?
Line 6	Ofilia Ramos: He married her in Aouda, Coahuila, Mexico. And, then they just came across.
Line 7	Rosa Rodriguez: So he first was here in 1910. Where did he go when he arrived in the United States?
Line 8	Ofilia Ramos: He worked on the railroad. So he had different areas that he worked along the, the train line. But he settled in, Spofford, Texas, where I was born.
Line 9	Rosa Rodriguez: When was the first time that he came to Idaho?
Line 10	Ofilia Ramos: I believe it was 1947. Between 1947 and 1948.
Line 11	Rosa Rodriguez: And what was the reason they came to Idaho?
Line 12	Ofilia Ramos: Because, the family was growing. Were young men then. And he wanted to have more for his family than than what was offered in Spofford. The there wasn't any jobs. There were the jobs were just railroading. And he didn't want the boys to do that.
Line 13	Rosa Rodriguez: What did he do when he came to Idaho? Where did he find work and where did he go for school? What place in Idaho?
Line 14	Ofilia Ramos: He came here to Idaho Falls, and he worked for the sugar factory, as a laborer. You know, working in the fields. And he, he worked for a farmer and, the little town we call Lincoln right now.
Line 15	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 16	Rosa Rodriguez: Were they, how many children were born in Idaho Falls?
Line 17	Ofilia Ramos: Two. The two youngest, the girl, Mary, was born in 1948. And. And the boy was, Bill was born in 1950.
Line 18	Rosa Rodriguez: So you and your other brothers and sisters, went to school here?
Line 19	Ofilia Ramos: Just myself. The. Let's see, the four youngest went to school, and we completed our school, but a couple of the older ones started school, but they they dropped out because of work. They had to work.
Line 20	Rosa Rodriguez: And did they work there in the sugar factory with your dad?
Line 21	Ofilia Ramos: Yes, they did well in the fields. We worked out in the fields.
Line 22	Rosa Rodriguez: Did you, speak English when you first started going to school here?
Line 23	Ofilia Ramos: No. And I remember the first grade, I. I didn't speak English. The only language, Spanish, was spoken at home. And the older brothers and sisters that did spend a little bit of time in school. They knew English, but I didn't. I learned just by being around other kids.
Line 24	Rosa Rodriguez: Was there other children in the area where you lived that were also Mexican-Americans?
Line 25	Ofilia Ramos: I don't remember now. I think there was, but we were a family unit and so we stayed just family. Just just with ourselves.
Line 26	Rosa Rodriguez: What do you remember about your teachers in Idaho? Do you have good thoughts about going into the Idaho schools?
Line 27	Ofilia Ramos: I, I was probably maybe one of the luckiest because I, the teachers treated me real good. And I started school on first grade in Parker, Idaho. And then I came to Lincoln and and go to school. And most of the school, most of my education is in was in Idaho Falls schools, and I never saw any of the discrimination I, maybe it was there.
Line 28	Ofilia Ramos: I just didn't see it.
Line 29	Rosa Rodriguez: Where is Parker, Idaho. And why were you there?
Line 30	Ofilia Ramos: Parker is close to Saint Anthony's, about, oh, ten miles. I'm not sure. North east of Saint Anthony. And my dad worked for, for a farmer there, working in the in the potato houses.
Line 31	Rosa Rodriguez: And how about your other brothers and sisters? What? How do they feel about going to school?
Line 32	Ofilia Ramos: The older brothers and sisters spent, well, their schooling was in Spofford, and their schooling was not a good experience at all. The teachers there were very prejudice. And this, just repeating what I heard my sister say. And, they would get beat very often and, But as far as the Idaho schools, when they came to, you know, Idaho Falls in 1948, a couple of them did go to school a little bit.
Line 33	Ofilia Ramos: And, I, I don't remember them saying anything bad that happened to them.
Line 34	Rosa Rodriguez: What do you remember of the house where you used to live in the Lincoln area? Was it a big house or small house?
Line 35	Ofilia Ramos: The little house in Lincoln was, if you're familiar at all with Idaho Falls right now, it's on the corner. It was on the corner of Woodruff and Lincoln. And there's a service station there now. But back, you know, when I was a little kid, I think there was two rooms, the kitchen and one room for. Well, there was, I think eight of us by then.
Line 36	Ofilia Ramos: They were all born by then. And, I remember my dad during the wintertime. It's cold here. And we had to put paper on the walls and my dad put paper on the walls. Use the, the flour, you know, for the pace and that and, but it was a happy time. I, at least as a child, I felt like it was a happy time.
Line 37	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your dad work all year round?
Line 38	Ofilia Ramos: Yes he did. He worked for, Carla Carlisle Chaffin, and he owned a lot of property there on Lincoln and Woodruff and that area right there. And, we were full time. We just, we didn't go outside of the farm. He he kept us busy, with everything he had. The boys drove trucks and, whatever else was needed.
Line 39	Rosa Rodriguez: What kind of, food did your mom make for you? And did she have a hard time finding the ingredients she needed for her cooking in Idaho Falls? At that time?
Line 40	Ofilia Ramos: I don't know. It was all about the food. It was frijoles beans. Tortillas and rice. Very, Just very basic food that we eat meat also. And the farmer always gave my dad, a pig to raise and slaughter when it was, you know, big enough. And and he had sheep on the on the farm, too.
Line 41	Ofilia Ramos: So we always had a pickup. A lamb and, but as far as the ingredients, I, I don't know, I was kind of young that, you know, when they first came and, so I'm not sure about the ingredients.
Line 42	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you remember when you first came to Idaho? Was it in the summer or in spring?
Line 43	Ofilia Ramos: Most of this is just by word that I'm telling you is is by memories of what my father used to talk about because I was only about 3 or 4 years old at the at the very start. And,
Line 44	Rosa Rodriguez: Let me let me interrupt, okay. And ask you. What year your father was born.
Line 45	Ofilia Ramos: It was late 1800s.
Line 46	Rosa Rodriguez: I know he lived a long life. How old were you when he passed away?
Line 47	Ofilia Ramos: He was 108 when he passed away in 1988.
Line 48	Rosa Rodriguez: And he passed away here in Idaho Falls.
Line 49	Ofilia Ramos: Yes. He did.
Line 50	Rosa Rodriguez: Okay. Then he did he live with one of your, another brother of yours, or did he live? And he'd let the his last year? Did he live somewhere in the farm also, or working more comfortable living in, like, a farming area?
Line 51	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. He, he lived with my brother Bill in Osgood, which is a farm and little farming community. And, yes, he liked to live out on the farm, and he'd go camping with us, and he enjoyed that. And, But he lived with my brother until he passed away.
Line 52	Rosa Rodriguez: Does he ever do he ever talk to you about, The times that he worked in the railroad, was there other Mexican people, Mexican men working there?
Line 53	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. And then I think it was about 1910 when he crossed over to the United States because the revolution was going on in Mexico. So he crossed over and there was all the chain gang, chain gang, or whatever they call it, the railroad gang. They were all Mexican, the way he tells it. They were all Mexican and they have families with them.
Line 54	Ofilia Ramos: There were men with their families, and they moved from camp to camp on the railroad side, laying track. And he said, he said, performance were real men. Of course. That's, you know, the kind of labor, but usually it was white for months. And all the laborers were Mexican.
Line 55	Rosa Rodriguez: What does, what do you remember about your mom and how she felt when she first came into the United States with your dad? How did you feel about leaving Mexico?
Line 56	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I think she was probably like any new bride. She was probably scared. She never been in the United States. And she was only 16 years old. But dad had already everything arranged for her. She was, they had a home. And the other people that lived in the little community were all, well, not all of them, but probably 80% were were of Mexican descent.
Line 57	Ofilia Ramos: So they didn't have any problem with the language because the, the judges spoke excellent, Spanish. The doctors, the, policemen or whatever, you know, all all of the people spoke Spanish.
Line 58	Rosa Rodriguez: And that was in Texas.
Line 59	Ofilia Ramos: Yes.
Line 60	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your brothers ever serve in, in a war?
Line 61	Ofilia Ramos: My oldest brother, Ted, he served in the Korean War in 1950. Whatever. He served his time, whatever it was. And, he. Oh. And and the youngest brother, Bill, he was, during the Vietnam he served quite a but nine years total in the Air Force between the Air Force and the Army.
Line 62	Rosa Rodriguez: And the third, I would talk to you about the Korean War and with their other Hispanics with him. I know if you're not.
Line 63	Ofilia Ramos: Yes, he did, he have taught that, one of his best buddies and also Bill, one of his best buddies were Hispanic. I'm sure there was a lot of them.
Line 64	Rosa Rodriguez: So... was one of your older brothers that didn't continue his school in Idaho?
Line 65	Ofilia Ramos: That's correct. Yes.
Line 66	Rosa Rodriguez: Can you remember looking back at your education in Idaho Falls? Can you remember of a teacher that stands out in your mind that helped you?
Line 67	Ofilia Ramos: Well, probably the one at Parker, because I don't know. She stands in my mind because she gave me a little, a little golden book. And I thought that was the best thing that ever happened. And, and I did learn to read it, and I think I was only in the first grade then, and that was real neat.
Line 68	Ofilia Ramos: That was for me.
Line 69	Rosa Rodriguez: How did you feel when you came into the Air Force school then? You didn't know any English.
Line 70	Ofilia Ramos: I the only thing I remember, I remember two occasions, one, I was sitting in a circle and now I know why. Why it was the probably the reading, the reading time. I didn't know what was going on, but I was sitting in a circle and, listening to the other people read. And then another time at the same school at, Emerson, I'm pretty sure it's on Third Street.
Line 71	Ofilia Ramos: Emerson. And, there was this little girl and I. And there was a little boy, you know, all the same age. And I said something and she giggled. The other little girl giggled, and the teacher was standing. It was just there, close by, that she could hear what I said. To this day I don't know what I said, but I got reprimanded for whatever I said.
Line 72	Ofilia Ramos: I didn't know what and she didn't take time. The only thing the teacher told me was, a little girl shouldn't say that. Well, that's great, but I. I don't know what I said wrong. I'm.
Line 73	Rosa Rodriguez: How do you think education opportunities for Mexican-Americans in Idaho, changed in your lifetime?
Line 74	Ofilia Ramos: Well, when I first graduated in 1961 from Idaho Falls High. I don't think it probably was. Overall, I don't think there was a lot of government grants. And the only way you could go if you go to college, I wanted to go to college, but the only way you could go was either your parents paid for you, of course they needed to have money or you got scholarships.
Line 75	Ofilia Ramos: And and the only, the only thing with scholarships is that you have to be, I mean, real smart, or at least your grades had to reflect that you were real smart. And mine weren't that that great. But I still wanted to go to school. And then later on, 15 maybe later on. It did get better. And I think it is better because I myself went to school under a grant and I, I really appreciate that.
Line 76	Ofilia Ramos: And I try to work with other young people when I do have, the opportunity or the time to work with them.
Line 77	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you think that, I hope Mexican-Americans do well in school.
Line 78	Ofilia Ramos: Oh, I. By the reports I see and I hear they're not doing too well yet. It's. I think they're odd. The the figures have improved, I think more kids, more Hispanic kids. Mexican-Americans are staying in school because their parents are educated. And the ones that are educated, they are staying in school. And I think it's improved. But you're you still have the problem with, with the laborers, with the migrant workers, and that hasn't I don't think that has improved it too much.
Line 79	Rosa Rodriguez: Describe your first job that you had out of working with them at the Farmers place when you were here in Idaho?
Line 80	Ofilia Ramos: From my first job out of high school. Up until high school, I worked in the fields. And later, I still continued off and on work in the fields. But my first job non-related was at a hospital at, the LDS hospital here in town. And I was in the kitchen and I thought, hey, I'm doing really good.
Line 81	Ofilia Ramos: And I was going to secretarial school at night, so I'm rolling. And, they treated me good there. I, I worked, oh, maybe six, seven months.
Line 82	Rosa Rodriguez: How did your parents feel about you graduating from high school and then getting a job and going to secretary school at the same time?
Line 83	Ofilia Ramos: Well, they thought that was pretty neat. They really. My both my father and mother, wanted us. The children, to be educated because they knew that without education, without knowing the language. Well, you know, it just doesn't hold your future. Doesn't look too good. And so they really the they really pushed for the education. My father learned to read and write by himself.
Line 84	Ofilia Ramos: Like a lot of people, probably back in the Old West, I call it, they learned by themselves. And my mom also could read a little bit. She didn't know how to write, but she didn't know how to read a little bit.
Line 85	Rosa Rodriguez: Or other kinds of jobs that you have.
Line 86	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I've been, I've. I've had a lot of dishwashing and all kinds. And I've also been a secretary for many, many years, and I've worked for the Nampa School District as, a teacher's aide and also a teacher. And I have a degree in, bilingual education that I'm very proud of, at the press. And I'm working at the, in the, in the field side as a technician, and that doesn't seem very related teaching, but, but I do, occasionally tutor on the side.
Line 87	Rosa Rodriguez: Are you happy there working, as a technician?
Line 88	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. If the teaching I think is my would be the ideal. But because for financial reasons, the technician job holds a little more promise financially. But, my love, I think, is teaching.
Line 89	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you think of media like Mexican-Americans in the workplace are treated fairly here in Idaho?
Line 90	Ofilia Ramos: From. I think it, probably makes a difference where you're working now where I work for EG&G. And that's a very, it's a big company and they have all kinds of methods to, make, make sure that your rights are protected. They have in your office and it's, it's quite good. And, but there are less fortunate people I know.
Line 91	Ofilia Ramos: I don't know of any incidents myself, but I'm sure that, that they are treated fairly. But, since I've worked for the school district and for the and for now for this company, I haven't had that problem.
Line 92	Rosa Rodriguez: Why did you, to to come back to Idaho Falls? You said you looked, Amantha, and you came back to Idaho.
Line 93	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I think what brought me back home was my folks know first. My mom passed away, and then my dad moved back to Idaho Falls for the Maine family, where most of the family were are here. And then, just other things in my own private life that happened to me that I decided I, I tried, I tried working at the for the initial and it's been very good to me.
Line 94	Ofilia Ramos: I've, I've had, I've been treated well there.
Line 95	Rosa Rodriguez: How many brothers and sisters do you have?
Line 96	Ofilia Ramos: I have, four brothers. Three sisters and one that's living and one that's passed away. And myself.
Line 97	Rosa Rodriguez: And comparing Nampa. And I don't feel. Where would you rather live? And I'm not. You can just imagine that you don't have your nice job at dying, you know? But in comparison with the community, where would be a more comfortable place for you to live?
Line 98	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, well. I'll pray. It was hard for me to get used to Idaho Falls because I was used to seeing a lot of brown faces and a lot of. And hearing the music, and it just different. It's a different world from Nampa. And but the opportunity is, better here. There's more work here. There's, just a better opportunity.
Line 99	Ofilia Ramos: And, I wish I had done it a long earlier than, than what? Than what I did.
Line 100	Rosa Rodriguez: Do did your parents ever talk to you about your grandparents? I think you ever known your grandparents?
Line 101	Ofilia Ramos: No, I never will. I'm sure I did when I was a baby, but I don't remember my grandparents, they died. I was I just found out not too long last year. Matter of fact, that one of my grandmothers died in 1954. And that would have made me 10 or 11 years old, at least.
Line 102	Rosa Rodriguez: Was she in Mexico when she died?
Line 103	Ofilia Ramos: Yes. They were they,
Line 104	Rosa Rodriguez: They never.
Line 105	Ofilia Ramos: Came here. No, they never came to the I think. Well.
Line 106	Rosa Rodriguez: Let's talk about a little bit about your mom and dad. Did they ever go out anywhere, like on a Saturday? Do you remember there was dancing where they used to go to church on Sunday?
Line 107	Ofilia Ramos: Well, the only thing I remember, one of my sisters, the older sister, saying that they like my mom, like the movies. My dad was very, not standoffish in a in a bad way, but I think because he didn't know the language, he rather stay home. But my mom was, different. She was very outgoing. And, as a family, we would they would get us all kids in the pickup, bring us into town.
Line 108	Ofilia Ramos: And this, you have to think, was 40 years ago or so, and probably one movie house, and we would all go to the movies to Sunday or Saturday matinee, and. But my mom like westerns a lot, and so that's what they did. There wasn't as far as, dances, there wasn't any music, Mexican music in the area or whatever you happen, you know, if you had records that you brought from Texas or wherever, and because of the language there was, we stuck together.
Line 109	Ofilia Ramos: And at that time, there wasn't very many families here. There was maybe, another couple more families that we knew well. And when we baptized kids, you know, the kids, we'd all baptized each other kids because we, we needed first to be Catholics and then to be friends. So.
Line 110	Rosa Rodriguez: So when you went to the movie house on Saturday or Sunday. Was it always packed with people?
Line 111	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, yeah, they said, it was, but it was all English as far, as far as I know. Because like I said, that was back in 48 or something like that. There was always people here, migrant people, but not people that stayed out. And we stayed the Garcias and the Perez's and and, the rumors, we stayed and there I think that's the big difference between.
Line 112	Rosa Rodriguez: Remember the first time that you stayed and the winter?
Line 113	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. It was, it was a hard winter. They, Like I said, I was little, but, yeah, it was a pretty hard winter because Texas doesn't have all the snow and the ice and everything.
Line 114	Rosa Rodriguez: How did your parents survive that? How did they, put clothing on you?
Line 115	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I think they had. Oh, my mom was real frugal with her money. And, of course, my dad, too. But when we first came, one thing that my dad did say when we first, first came here, we went to Chaffin. And that's, that's the farmer. And so we don't have any money, you know, we haven't worked or nothing.
Line 116	Ofilia Ramos: But Chaffin said, oh, just go to the little store in Lincoln. They know me. And I told them, and he opened an account for us. You wouldn't do that nowadays for nobody. But he opened an account. And, of course, my mom was very, frugal. And she, you know, she only bought the necessities, but they provided us with blankets and so forth.
Line 117	Rosa Rodriguez: And so this were this was your dad's first encounter, and I don't with this man. Mr..
Line 118	Ofilia Ramos: That's right.
Line 119	Rosa Rodriguez: So he trusted your dad to go and, to the store and get all everything he needed?
Line 120	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, it is, it was it was very unusual because he just told my my mom and sister, just go and tell them who you are and and the accounts they're open for you.
Line 121	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your mom grow a garden there?
Line 122	Ofilia Ramos: Yes, they did provide them garden with. We had a little garden space. And then the, also the farmer said, they had green. They used to have those green beans, whatever they call them. And, so he could fatten appeared or a hog, I guess it's called fatten a hog. And then, of course, he could have, a lamb or, a pic of a lamb.
Line 123	Ofilia Ramos: So we were doing pretty good.
Line 124	Rosa Rodriguez: What kinds of things that they grow in the garden.
Line 125	Ofilia Ramos: Oh, carrots and probably, lettuce. And she left. And that kind of corn my dad could plant real good corn.
Line 126	Rosa Rodriguez: What? What is a typical day of your career? What a typical day. And, them of their morning, way back when you were a little.
Line 127	Ofilia Ramos: Well, if it was a workday, which most of them were, 4 or 5:00 in the morning, my dad would get up. My mom and she would cook breakfast, you know, a good breakfast. And then she would call the boys. Whoever was working, she would call them.
Line 128	Rosa Rodriguez: And,
Line 129	Ofilia Ramos: And they'd go up to work, they go up to work, and of course, at noon they'd have their meal, and then at night they would come home. And when I was going to school, by the time I was, you know, six years old or whenever I started to school and, then of course, I'd go to school, they take me either the bus came for me or somebody walked me to school.
Line 130	Rosa Rodriguez: This is the end of part one of Ofilia Ramos's interview.
Line 131	Rosa Rodriguez: This is part two of Ofilia Ramos's interview.
Line 132	Rosa Rodriguez: Ofilia, what kind of social life did your two older brothers have when they had some time that they could go out?
Line 133	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I don't don't, remember that my brother Ted was about 18 or so when he was here, and he had a girlfriend back in Texas, which he later married. And, the younger brother and not the younger, but the next brother. He he liked to socialize. So he did have girlfriends. And, I think he, probably dated some girls, some Mexican girls.
Line 134	Ofilia Ramos: And he also dated the Anglo girls. And, later he married an old 1954, 55. They both married them.
Line 135	Rosa Rodriguez: Going back on the dating. Where would they go on a date?
Line 136	Ofilia Ramos: I've the only thing that I can think of is that when we have family gatherings, social gatherings among the families, that's probably where they met the girls that,
Line 137	Rosa Rodriguez: Like, baptism.
Line 138	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, a baptism, a wedding, something some get together.
Line 139	Rosa Rodriguez: Yeah.
Line 140	Ofilia Ramos: But I don't think there was much dating. In those days. Later there. They were that.
Line 141	Rosa Rodriguez: They tell me about you. When did you first start dating?
Line 142	Ofilia Ramos: I didn't date much in high school. My, I wasn't allowed. My my folks are real strict. And,
Line 143	Rosa Rodriguez: How about your other sisters?
Line 144	Ofilia Ramos: None of them dated. My, Let's see. My. Well, the older sister was already married, and then the other sister, she did date, but she was, 18, 19, I think, when she started dating.
Line 145	Rosa Rodriguez: How did you feel about her dating?
Line 146	Ofilia Ramos: My, they never liked it. They wanted, I don't know if, just a good old Mexican boy. To, to, you know, among the families, I think they would have been, but my brother in law is a real wonderful guy. And so that turned out real good. Both of them. Well.
Line 147	Rosa Rodriguez: When, your younger sister would date, would, would the young men come to the house and pick her up?
Line 148	Ofilia Ramos: Yes, they had to. Even myself. When I start dating my my husband, he had to come to the house and pick me up. And also we would chaperon by his younger brother. Sister or my younger brother or sister.
Line 149	Rosa Rodriguez: So your parents never let you go by yourself?
Line 150	Ofilia Ramos: No. We were never allowed alone.
Line 151	Rosa Rodriguez: And how did you meet your your husband?
Line 152	Ofilia Ramos: It was also one of those family gatherings. And, by that time, the community had grown. And this was in the early 60s. So the community had grown and we were having there was some dances in, in the Lewisville and Monaghan area and, a couple of guys that knew how to play accordions or guitars or something.
Line 153	Ofilia Ramos: And so that's what we needed. We need an accordion and a guitar and, and, we got out there dancing shoes.
Line 154	Rosa Rodriguez: How did your parents feel about you dating, your husband, did they like him?
Line 155	Ofilia Ramos: My dad liked him, like my husband. But my mom then never didn't care for him. You know, he grew on them after a while.
Line 156	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 157	Rosa Rodriguez: So then your parents didn't allow the girls to go on dates, but, but your brothers could go any time they wanted to.
Line 158	Ofilia Ramos: Yes. The brothers were allowed to go. They, they weren't questioned for as long as they come home at a decent hour. And they didn't come home drunk. That was okay. But the women, the girls were well protected. And not only by my parents, but my brothers, too.
Line 159	Rosa Rodriguez: When you were growing up and you were a teenager. And you were a girl, did you feel that your parents treated your brothers, more thoroughly than they treated you? As far as responsibilities around the house or.
Line 160	Ofilia Ramos: My brothers were my mom's favorite as far. I mean, you know, I I'm sure she lived all of it, but definitely she showed, favoritism towards the boys and us, my other sisters. And they'll they'll say the same thing.
Line 161	Rosa Rodriguez: With it, because your two older brothers worked and they had to drop out of school to to go to help the family with Frank. Maybe.
Line 162	Ofilia Ramos: No, the I don't I don't believe that was the reason. It was just that, I don't know if it's true with all Mexican women or men. I'm not sure. Men, but, but I think a lot of the Mexican women, for some reason, have hold the son more, with higher regard. I don't know why, but.
Line 163	Ofilia Ramos: But they do.
Line 164	Rosa Rodriguez: So around the house. The girls did the housework. Did you help your mom with the cooking?
Line 165	Ofilia Ramos: I in my particular house, not home? No, but I did all the, I did do the tortillas. A big stack of tortillas. I wash dishes, on Saturdays. It was, routine that I didn't go anywhere until I, cleaned the house. You know, the, not vacuum. Because back in those days, it was mostly, polish the floors, you know, mop them and then put a polish on them, that kind of thing for my brothers.
Line 166	Ofilia Ramos: Didn't have to do that at all.
Line 167	Rosa Rodriguez: Even the ones that weren't working.
Line 168	Ofilia Ramos: That's right. The boys never wash dishes, never did nothing.
Line 169	Rosa Rodriguez: What did your dad do on a on a day off, like on a Sunday? Or did he work seven days a week?
Line 170	Ofilia Ramos: Oh, I think Sunday he didn't work. I'm pretty sure he worked all the other days, but he worked by the time I was in high school. He was still working in the potato house, but, and very little money. I remember there was just very little money, but he worked, and, he was very conscientious about working and getting to work.
Line 171	Ofilia Ramos: But on his day off, he left to work out in the yard. You think he'd be tired? But no, he'd come and he mowed the lawn and he'd help mom with, the flower gardens. She loved flowers, so there was always plenty of flowers. But he was a very active man as he kept himself. You know, he was always out and about, busy doing.
Line 172	Rosa Rodriguez: And I know he had a green thumb. Yeah. I grew a beautiful plant even after when he passed away. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful plant. Yeah.
Line 173	Rosa Rodriguez: Tell me about your sister. Your older sister. You said that she she she lives here, and she still lives on that property where you grew up.
Line 174	Ofilia Ramos: That's my sister Carmen. When we came to Idaho Falls back in 1948 or 47, whenever it was, she was newlywed, and, they followed her husband, her and her husband, followed by followed us here and and my brother in law worked for for Carlyle. Up until he passed away. He never left the farm. He, he learned to do all kinds of things that, you know, they they do.
Line 175	Ofilia Ramos: And during the winter time, he would just fix the machinery and put it in order for the summertime. And, and the boys were all born there. Her sons and daughters were all born there.
Line 176	Rosa Rodriguez: And how old is her oldest?
Line 177	Ofilia Ramos: Her oldest son must be about 41, I think. Now something like that. 4142.
Line 178	Rosa Rodriguez: And that would be her oldest child.
Line 179	Ofilia Ramos: Yes. That's her oldest.
Line 180	Rosa Rodriguez: And they eventually bought that property for they are living.
Line 181	Ofilia Ramos: Years before my brother in law passed away. He had bought a house and, well, he bought the property from Carlisle, and he said he moved the house onto it. And, they remodeled the house, and it's a really nice home. Now.
Line 182	Rosa Rodriguez: Their house where they used to live when they first moved here.
Line 183	Ofilia Ramos: No, this is another house. But it's on the same property that they were living.
Line 184	Rosa Rodriguez: And why? Why you took get to brother and, decided to move here with your family. Bring his bride over. Why didn't he keep her in Texas?
Line 185	Ofilia Ramos: Probably, probably the same thing. The only thing going right there in Texas was the railroad. And I guess somebody saw that it might be going out. You know, it would become obsolete soon. And, and his, my brother in law's brothers and dad and so forth, they all worked in the on the railroad and my dad really didn't encourage them.
Line 186	Ofilia Ramos: I mean, you know, and, to come down, but he says, no, I want to go. I want to go to see your dad says it's pretty nice. And so they moved down here.
Line 187	Rosa Rodriguez: And your dad worked in the railroad in Texas. Did you work in the railroad at all here in Idaho?
Line 188	Ofilia Ramos: No. He didn't. He worked, I think he worked 30 years or something a long time. But, he was tired of working on the railroad. So when he came to Idaho, we we just worked on the farm in the fields.
Line 189	Rosa Rodriguez: So what do you call yourself? A senior to call yourself? A Mexican, a Mexican American family. Latina? Or do you call yourself okay? Yeah.
Line 190	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. Mostly that mostly paid a Mexican American. If I, If I'm to choose, a one of those, I would. I do call myself Mexican American.
Line 191	Rosa Rodriguez: What do you value most about being a Mexican American?
Line 192	Ofilia Ramos: My heritage. I have a rich heritage. I'm very proud of, my folks taught me a lot of things. A lot of good things. And not about.
Line 193	Rosa Rodriguez: Did your parents ever talk to you about or did they ever tell you cuantos or, tell you about Mexico and how they were when they were growing up? And.
Line 194	Ofilia Ramos: My dad was a real good storyteller. So I got all my I got all the cuantos the stories from him. My mom said they weren't true, but that's, That's okay.
Line 195	Rosa Rodriguez: So do you remember a cuento that you that your dad or, Mr.. Tell you when you were little?
Line 196	Ofilia Ramos: No, not, really offhand. It just, a lot of folklore has to do with, with God. With God and, devil, you know, fighting for people. And a lot of my dad's a lot. There was a lot of, spiritualism involved in his stories. I think the fight between good and evil, a lot of his stories told that.
Line 197	Rosa Rodriguez: When you were little and you were growing up here, did you, do you remember them talking about. Good. There are some good undertones. Was there any here in Idaho?
Line 198	Ofilia Ramos: I don't think there was any here in Idaho Falls. Could under those, but yes, definitely. My my dad did believe believed in that both my mom and dad. And that's what I couldn't remember, but. Well, a lot of his stories were based on that. On what they believed in or what they could understand and the, you know, the healers and some are good and some are bad.
Line 199	Ofilia Ramos: You know,
Line 200	Rosa Rodriguez: When you would get sick, what would your mom, what she pray over you and correct there was the a yeah.
Line 201	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, that's the, a favorite one when you have the if somebody has given you the evil eye, the, the my mom would rob us with an egg and then and then one and say prayers. Okay. And then she'd get a little, a little cup or something to put the egg, crack the egg and, and, you know, crack it, in, in the bowl, in the little bowl.
Line 202	Ofilia Ramos: And then if the egg would turn white, then that means that you're cured, that somebody had given you the evil eye. And,
Line 203	Rosa Rodriguez: Would you brush you with a brush, a tree branch or something also?
Line 204	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah. And then when the tree branch, that's all, that's the color, a fright. That's, if you're scared. Really scared. Okay. And you start having nightmares and anyway, they would take it to some old lady to to read prayers over you and, and then they would brush you with branches from, I think manzanilla some kind of a, bush that would grow or mint.
Line 205	Ofilia Ramos: Mint that that was a good one to.
Line 206	Rosa Rodriguez: And that your parents do that to you.
Line 207	Ofilia Ramos: They would know that also my mom would do that. And the other one, it's a little more expertise for that one. So they would find some old lady that knew how to how to do it.
Line 208	Rosa Rodriguez: So in essence, maybe that little old lady with a little bit of a.
Line 209	Ofilia Ramos: I think so, yeah, I think.
Line 210	Rosa Rodriguez: She knew how to do.
Line 211	Ofilia Ramos: It and she knew how to do it. Yeah. And, yeah.
Line 212	Rosa Rodriguez: When you were sick or your brothers and sisters, do you remember them ever being really sick, any of them? Did they take you to the doctor, or did your mom try to have the remedies at home?
Line 213	Ofilia Ramos: Well, I think, I remember I well, I don't remember, but I remember them telling me I was about six weeks, six months old, and that was back in Spofford. And, I had pneumonia. Really. I mean, I was pretty close to dying, and she did take me to the doctor. So they did believe in if the doctor was where they could get to, they would take us to the doctor.
Line 214	Ofilia Ramos: And but she did do home remedies, you know, for a sore throat or a stomachache. She'd give us tea to drink and, you know, just, acid stomach, upset stomach and.
Line 215	Rosa Rodriguez: Yeah.
Line 216	Rosa Rodriguez: It's the ability to speak Spanish important to you?
Line 217	Ofilia Ramos: It is very important to me, and I. I don't know whether it's an individual thing, but I always kept maybe because I was the oldest of the four younger ones that were left. But I had to take my mom, you know, I went to the doctor with her. I went to the groceries. I kept her bank account until I got married.
Line 218	Ofilia Ramos: And, but, I've always loved my language. I've always been, I've never said, Viva la Raza all the time. You know, but I've always been proud to be who I am.
Line 219	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 220	Ofilia Ramos: Even back when it wasn't cool to be that. But, And also, since I was the oldest, I and my mom could not read or write in order to keep communications with Mexico, with the family she did have in Mexico, somebody had to read and write for her in Spanish. And that's why I've, I learned, young how to read and write, and then I, I improved that when I went to school, and I went to college.
Line 221	Rosa Rodriguez: So it was important for your parents to teach you how strong the culture. The Mexican culture.
Line 222	Ofilia Ramos: Yes. The it, they didn't want to want us to forget, where we came from. It didn't mean that we couldn't go ahead. You know, they wanted us to progress ahead, but they also wanted to know where we came from.
Line 223	Rosa Rodriguez: As any, member of your family experienced, racial discrimination or sexual discrimination.
Line 224	Rosa Rodriguez: Here in Idaho.
Line 225	Ofilia Ramos: Not that I know of personally. I haven't, I know my brothers and sisters that they have. I, I don't know of,
Line 226	Rosa Rodriguez: How do Anglos see Mexican-Americans?
Line 227	Ofilia Ramos: But I don't know if I can answer no. How to answer that?
Line 228	Rosa Rodriguez: Do you want me to explain?
Line 229	Ofilia Ramos: Yes, please.
Line 230	Ofilia Ramos: You're going to ask again?
Line 231	Rosa Rodriguez: I'm just.
Line 232	Ofilia Ramos: Okay. The stereotype. Of who? What a Mexican is or is not, and it hasn't. Probably hasn't changed too much. They still assume that, you know, we carry knives and all this, and. And the woman is just honey and no honey and whatever, but, we have changed and and sometimes, when there's an and we're not all people forget that we're not all the same.
Line 233	Ofilia Ramos: We have degrees, different degrees of education. And not only education, but who we are. Some of us have morals and some don't, and but a lot of people just, you know, they say, oh, you know, he he minutes, you know, he got busted last night for, for having cocaine or something. And that makes me feel bad because other people are going to say, well, maybe you do the same thing.
Line 234	Ofilia Ramos: And that's not you know, that's not true.
Line 235	Ofilia Ramos: But, the stereotypes are still there.
Line 236	Rosa Rodriguez: From,
Line 237	Rosa Rodriguez: Are there are major events in your life that have a lasting impression, for example, you know, the Vietnam War, the Korean War, when your brother went to the Korean War.
Line 238	Ofilia Ramos: And the civil rights movement. In regards to, being Mexican or being.
Line 239	Rosa Rodriguez: What, regards to you being who you are in your life.
Line 240	Rosa Rodriguez:
Line 241	Ofilia Ramos: I don't the Vietnam War. Yeah, I think so. I my, the Vietnam War was I don't know what was political and what happened or anything, but I have a a brother the wind and he was 18. He's the youngest one. But, you know, I couldn't believe because we were taught to be very patriotic. I mean, the flag, you know, the country and and my, my dad stressed that to us.
Line 242	Ofilia Ramos: He says, you, you young people or the people from here, even the the Anglo people don't know how good they have it because you can say anything you want and nobody says nothing to you. I mean, you might get slapped on the hand, you know, but you're not in prison, you're not thrown in jail. You're not. Nothing happens to you bad.
Line 243	Ofilia Ramos: And but when I was a young. Well, I, I don't know how old I was, but Vietnam. And that's the word that I remember most. And, And I just couldn't. I didn't know why the young men didn't want to go and fight that. That's wrong. I think later I learned some of the things that happened that why they didn't want to fight.
Line 244	Ofilia Ramos: But,
Line 245	Rosa Rodriguez: But your parents, expressed how important it was to be to love your country.
Line 246	Ofilia Ramos: Oh, yes. And that's why, my brother enlisted and both both of my brothers in the Korean War had enlisted, and then Bill enlisted. And,
Line 247	Rosa Rodriguez: So your dad had a big influence on, their loyalty to the United States?
Line 248	Ofilia Ramos: Yeah, he sure did, because he taught us from when we were just little kids how how wonderful it was to live here. And I do believe that,
Line 249	Rosa Rodriguez: What is the single most important thing to you?
Line 250	Ofilia Ramos: My family.
Line 251	Rosa Rodriguez: Yeah. Your family. Meaning your son or your family. Meaning?
Line 252	Ofilia Ramos: Well, my. Well, both my son and. And my brothers and sisters. Yeah, we we have, I think, an extended family that, I shouldn't say a lot of the Anglos don't have. Maybe they do some. But we have a very extended family and we might not see eye to eye on a lot of things. But if something's happened in the family, we are there for each other.
Line 253	Ofilia Ramos: And that's a very strong, tie, a very strong bond that we have. Yeah.
Line 254	Rosa Rodriguez: This is the end of Ofilia Ramos's interview.

Rodriguez, Jose R.

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: Thinking about selling your house?
Line 2	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes, yes. I would live. But we want to die. No, but no.
Line 3	Unknown Speaker: He's the one who thinks. Not me.
Line 4	Jose R. Rodriguez: Not here and no. And well, we're already old.
Line 5	Martha Torrez: He is now comfortable in this community.
Line 6	Jose R. Rodriguez: Oh, yes.
Line 7	Martha Torrez: I know it's important to you here. From the community.
Line 8	Jose R. Rodriguez: Hey, here we are. Who knows? No, it's just all the neighbors. We don't have anything else to do with anything.
Line 9	Martha Torrez: Very good.
Line 10	Jose R. Rodriguez: Neighbors who.
Line 11	Martha Torrez: Now we want to talk a little about your family. Do you remember your grandparents?
Line 12	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mmm no, I'll remember. My grandparents, barely my mother, my grandparents, I don't even know her name.
Line 13	Martha Torrez: When it came to making decisions in the family, who made those decisions?
Line 14	Jose R. Rodriguez: My kids and I were going to do some work. I'm going to buy a big block or a house or something. We'd get together with the kids, or you'd be the ones who'd pay one plus one. We'd guide you. I think we have to think... No, it's not always good to vote that way anymore. Not everything went well.
Line 15	Martha Torrez: How old are they? Did you consider your children to be adults?
Line 16	Jose R. Rodriguez: Already 20 years old and over. So what? They thought like adults about what could go well and what couldn't, and they consulted with them and everything, and they agreed. And I'm still here today.
Line 17	Martha Torrez: When their children were there, they contributed, that is, they gave them money for the whole family.
Line 18	Jose R. Rodriguez: All the time, all the time I tell them, well, it's not the norm these days, but my children, everything, everything, everything they earned, went to the Treasury with my mom, eh? Let's see what they bought the houses too. Yeah, because don't think we earned money, cars, pickup trucks, new ones, cars of the year, they brought out new cars of the year.
Line 19	Jose R. Rodriguez: All my children have money and we made money, but all the money went to that company and these other colleagues, so the rest of us had no choice but to continue working and the little bit of my money was left over. She knew what was there and what wasn't. And once we really got our hands on it, we arrived in Arizona.
Line 20	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, we have almost nothing to rent. And then there's no water because we have too many kids. And...
Line 21	Unknown Speaker: Municipalities for rent.
Line 22	Jose R. Rodriguez: For the places, rent. And then she told me this. Let's see, let's see, where there's a little house that they'll rent for us cheaper. Well, let's see if they'll sell us one, let's see what we can get. Well, we would have ourselves some divine irons and we'll get it, but she's always been queen and all the pennies, and we'll go see some centers, and then it turns out that most of them are here too, the houses are there, and they sell them cheaply, because it has many big trees, and then people can live in the little houses, right?
Line 23	Jose R. Rodriguez: For you, this is 1 million, no. But let's see. On a piece of land, it was 200 square feet.
Line 24	Jose R. Rodriguez: There.
Line 25	Jose R. Rodriguez: Let them get us. It's not cheap. I don't see it. No, no. They couldn't find it anywhere. So we said, look, I'm going to take it to the man of the house. And I don't know, me. My wife. Well, we did it. Deal. I'll leave it at $6,000.
Line 26	Unknown Speaker: The 7000 was worth 7500 in seven, right? But we told him we'd give him 7000.
Line 27	Jose R. Rodriguez: 6000
Line 28	Unknown Speaker: Not bringing the four, five.
Line 29	Jose R. Rodriguez: Thousand.
Line 30	Unknown Speaker: And the Lord said yes.
Line 31	Jose R. Rodriguez: He invests and we try to get some land and a little house, no, not very good, but one can live there, all of us children of God live there, and with three old things and Jesus, all backward. Fidel No, no, no.
Line 32	Unknown Speaker: Jesús is just another one. He was married, Fidel still isn't.
Line 33	Jose R. Rodriguez: Women who live, and hey, thank God. The little house now, right? And they all got married, and everyone lives in their own house. My mom's yard. And so the place stayed. That's where my daughter lived. But then, after a while, she and Dad bought a little house, and we're paying for it. We're going to pay for it. And what do we do with the house?
Line 34	Jose R. Rodriguez: And by renting the Y, with the same rent, you pay what's owed. Hey, well, in a little while, why don't we, we don't have it there, we don't have it, as if to say, no more, we have water. But on the street, on Calle Ninth or Calle Ninth. Well, suddenly, no, I remember saying.
Line 35	Jose R. Rodriguez: They were going to want pavement and put it on a snow slope. They had to open 200 feet of pavement and put it down for half an hour. They charged us 2,000 pesos or so to open it.
Line 36	Jose R. Rodriguez: And it didn't even start. And then the paving too, apart from the fact that it's in port, especially the pavement, another 2,000 pesos more than the property cost us, and we'd already fenced it with six-foot-long wire all around. The cheap one cost us $600.
Line 37	Jose R. Rodriguez: But no, it wasn't a fortune, not even close to that. Well, well, we admit, they were already laying pavement on the street and they put the envelope in. And then, after a while, because we were... It's like this. The... This is the... And this is the bonus. We got the street, the money was zero zero. So, that's how they laid the pavement and the drainage, and then another letter for the other detail: pavement again.
Line 38	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I said, I said, He said, "Hey, no, yeah, yeah, it cost us more than me. It was a large piece of land in a place, and it's been getting smaller. On this side, we build some houses and rent them out, and on the other side, we build another one. We're not sure what we could have done. But when they started adding all that stuff to us, it was already costing us three times what we get for the whole piece of land."
Line 39	Jose R. Rodriguez: So what did I say? Here we were. He already said the government wants the house, that is.
Line 40	Jose R. Rodriguez: But not anymore. Well, so they didn't want it anymore; someone had already bought it. And why are we going to pay them so much money? No, and let it be lost. We're happy with the time we lived there, with this. Well, yes, one season ticket expired and another one did. They sent me here, they sent me to do the Giro and they sent me.
Line 41	Jose R. Rodriguez: I wasn't paying the house payments I didn't have and won't pay. Tell them I don't want the house anymore, I told my daughter. And then she looks at me with him, with him she wants. And then heaven said, "Tell your dad we want the property. Does he really want it?"
Line 42	Jose R. Rodriguez: Give us permission and authority to check everything you owe.
Line 43	Jose R. Rodriguez: And they give him whatever's left. We said no. The check I mentioned? No, man, we can't afford to pay. What? I said no. Well, he says, "Friend." They're going to send you some paperwork, and you fill it out. If it turns out well, and if not, well, it was good. But they already sent me the paperwork, so they checked everything I owed and all the taxes, everything.
Line 44	Jose R. Rodriguez: We've already lost it, and the installments had already been paid, and I told them no, we weren't getting two installments. I was this other guy already at home, right, the government had taken over, no longer from us, and well, they're going to send him some papers. Then they sent me a message saying, "Well, we have them here, or can't we show them to you, or why don't we give you the checks?"
Line 45	Jose R. Rodriguez: How's it going? A check. They paid everything they owed and all the records and everything. They cleared everything. So they've already paid me so much, we paid so much for this, so much for this, since there's $10,000 left over. We already sent you a check for the loss, look, no, we had already lost it, we didn't want it anymore. But anyway, thank God for that, my daughter.
Line 46	Jose R. Rodriguez: I didn't want it, I think they sent it to me. They sent me the check for $10,000 and everything, everything, everything they had paid and well, that's it.
Line 47	Martha Torrez: It was a good deal, so I don't know.
Line 48	Jose R. Rodriguez: And that way. And here we are, thank God.
Line 49	Martha Torrez: Here's another question I was going to ask you about your family when your children were growing up: Who was in charge of discipline?
Line 50	Jose R. Rodriguez: Both of them. When she ordered something like that. When I ordered something else, it was done, and she didn't interfere, nor did I. When she was paying the checks and so on, what we taught her children was, we didn't give them an education, we didn't give them much schooling, but we did teach them to respect people, and until they left our home, they got married, then it was different.
Line 51	Jose R. Rodriguez: They already managed things the way they wanted, but they were more at home. They were orderly.
Line 52	Martha Torrez: Now your children, everything. Although they're all married and have families, they live around you, near you, or...
Line 53	Jose R. Rodriguez: In a place where they live in Colorado. But anyway, every Saturday you call us, you visit us sometimes when we have a lot of people, you get us all together, and now you're driving me crazy with all the...
Line 54	Martha Torrez: Parranda and still celebrate as holidays together or.
Line 55	Jose R. Rodriguez: No? Well, especially when we have family gatherings and we all get together here, us with Fidel, with Jesus there in Israel, with It's like, it's a nice.
Line 56	Martha Torrez: But when they were still kids they celebrated Mother's Day on May 5th and, well, all the holidays.
Line 57	Jose R. Rodriguez: We all got together, all my secretaries, we got together, and well, well, well, well, uh, we'd discuss things about how things went well, what we were planning to do, which was everything. And well, everyone got together because we didn't have to pay attention to each other's opinions; everyone gives their own opinion.
Line 58	Martha Torrez: So you still have family gatherings and.
Line 59	Jose R. Rodriguez: We had the last one in.
Line 60	Jose R. Rodriguez: We had one here in Haywood, where you can see the place was huge. No bigger than here, and... And we had this meeting there where they are, where Jesus lives. We had it there. In the park, by the river, things like that. Right around there?
Line 61	Martha Torrez: What town is it?
Line 62	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mountain view. But what's it called? Mountain over there. Come on.
Line 63	Martha Torrez: No no.
Line 64	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, no, I didn't understand.
Line 65	Jose R. Rodriguez: The.
Line 66	Martha Torrez: Why? It's because your family is important to you. What's most important.
Line 67	Jose R. Rodriguez: For my family?
Line 68	Jose R. Rodriguez: What do they want? Well-being. And for them to live happily with their wife and children. So what? Or with whatever they could manage, like we address them as if we didn't have an education, a mission, or much schooling. But if we teach them how to live with people, they were very careful with their elders, they constantly stated their place, their rights, and that's how they're used to it, and that's how they are, although not very well, because now they've left home, they've started to adopt other ways of living.
Line 69	Jose R. Rodriguez: It's like I enlighten the world, but there's still respect in the home. Here, here, don't take any position here, any command in my house. I think I arrived here drunk, not in front of my grandmother. I can tell you that all my children, thank God for it, were scoundrels. Rascals. I wasn't born that way when they left home, but in that sense, in our home there was respect and order.
Line 70	Jose R. Rodriguez: A son never came home drunk. The police, eh, only had two daughters, but in our home, I'll tell you, my boys were in our care. There, on the 31st, they walked around, sorry, they walked around half-naked. No, no, they didn't even hang out with just anyone. The lady from the eight of gabions. But we have our first cousins, my children didn't even hang out with her because they live one way and my children lived another way, and they treated us badly, because they say we have our children like slaves, that the prisoners are also prisoners. No, no, no, it's not that we have them like that, but we do too.
Line 71	Jose R. Rodriguez: What do they hang out with? It's not like they're your cousins, your family, because they live one way or another.
Line 72	Jose R. Rodriguez: Why did I snatch them away, along with their wives, their mothers, their brothers, and their daughters? In the same filth. Okay, they're fine now, okay. Okay, there. The black center is overwhelming, right? And keeping watch. My children are gone, my children are gone, but while they were there, there was order.
Line 73	Martha Torrez: How does he say they left, how does he say his daughters left?
Line 74	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, they did marry their husbands, thank God. But anyway, in principle.
Line 75	Jose R. Rodriguez: Huh? How do we teach them? But they got married, and now that they're married, it's different, because now they live their own lives. But hey, they're responsible for what they do. Just like my children are responsible. We teach them the right way to behave, but now they're going to answer to us. Look, they were at home, we were responsible, now they're going to be held accountable for what they do, we're no longer involved.
Line 76	Martha Torrez: It's part of the customs, right? Yes. What other customs do you want your children to follow, the part of the customs you taught them?
Line 77	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, you know, now, now we've taught them. How? How? How to behave wherever they are with people. Because now I'm going to tell you no, no, no, no, no. I think they're very good people. My children don't. Nobody. They're very good. The Scripture says there's no no yet. And Jesus wanted to admit that he was a good person.
Line 78	Jose R. Rodriguez: He said, "Don't do that." "Well, that's good!" "Only my Father says, Lord Jesus. It's not that I'm not a good person, but I'll tell you one thing right now, I don't know, but Jesus, Fidel, Tony, and Juan Esteban.
Line 79	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't believe they're saints. But the life they led now is different, because now they serve God. No bars, no dancing, no wine, no cigarettes, nothing. I don't hang out with them now, but what I do see is different: their lives and their parents, I don't know exactly, but what I do see is that now they didn't interfere, they were more involved with you and the old ladies.
Line 80	Jose R. Rodriguez: Now no longer, now, all that stuff is gone and that is something, that is something, well, and something that God has required, because I think that it is God who, who, who represses the person, who regenerates him, who makes him think, live differently, walk differently, think differently, act differently.
Line 81	Jose R. Rodriguez: And all these little things I no longer like the world, as the scriptures say, no longer like the world gives it, it gives it, and that's the only thing I can't do to you. I can't do to you, I can't, no, no. What I do see about this is that I can't say it anymore because no, I haven't forgotten them. But I did tell myself, man, look, he walked firmly, that Jesus walked there in this way, and I don't hear people say that anymore.
Line 82	Jose R. Rodriguez: Now what I hear is that well, well, your churches, God's time is here, I like that.
Line 83	Martha Torrez: To say that religion is very important.
Line 84	Jose R. Rodriguez: For you, whatever. No, I don't do religion.
Line 85	Martha Torrez: Don't you think our family's customs and traditions are important and should be followed by Mexican culture?
Line 86	Jose R. Rodriguez: This is the pride of us Mexicans. And my King says, to teach our, our customs, our culture, ours, which I now, eh, all this youth, and that's another thing, other men are another, another life, as they lived, not like ours, as my uncles still teach them. A part of them knows how you are. He knows how he was educated, and he is also like you, a part of you.
Line 87	Jose R. Rodriguez: There it goes, there it goes. And you too, who set an example for the children from a young age, like, "And how good it is that it's no longer good." That's why I taught you a few things, and I still took them out. This time, the Guard thing. And well, but people can tell you like, "My, my, my numbers are my grandchildren who are from here, it's not anymore, it's different."
Line 88	Jose R. Rodriguez: Not even more so. Before, and I remember, they would arrive, say hello, and stand up. Good morning, good morning, Mom, I bless you. Anyway, now they arrive with a donkey. This wasn't pulled. My daughter. And I say, thank God! But their parents are responsible. From a young age, they teach us how, how, how to visit a home, how to behave.
Line 89	Jose R. Rodriguez: They're not leading like a sheep. Dude, we can't do anything, we can't do anything, because I'll leave them alone, I'll give in to them. We don't speak Spanish, and Esteban's side of the family arrives and doesn't open my eyes. No, we can't achieve this now, and from there on, a guide sits down and they treat him, and no, no, no, no, no, we're not looking.
Line 90	Jose R. Rodriguez: So what do I say to them? Don't I just say what they say to me in Spanish? They're embarrassed, and I'm embarrassed too, because I tell them it's better not to come. They appreciate them; they're our own flesh and blood. But it makes us even sadder, and, as I told you, brother, we're going with the enemy.
Line 91	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, and I say better not to come. It's not that we don't love each other, but so, so, so, so? We tell them how we teach them, how we correct them, what they're doing wrong. We can't, and they can't tell us, because I don't know.
Line 92	Martha Torrez: Due to lack of communication.
Line 93	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, that's it. I see that you and your husband are teaching your children to speak a little Spanish so they know how to defend themselves, how to act, how to walk, and how to live from a young age, from what they're teaching you. But they're going to teach them how to do things, how to help, and how. No, no, no, no, they're making me see it here.
Line 94	Jose R. Rodriguez: It says here, "You walk very straight when you believe," so what you're going to take responsibility for is for this to give them an understanding that those little boys are just saying a few things, because that's a work for you before God. I'm working on it in their career, and even when I'm old, I won't turn away from teaching them.
Line 95	Jose R. Rodriguez: But don't teach them to drink beer, it's not a skill to say bad words in a nice place, right?
Line 96	Martha Torrez: How did you meet Mrs. Lupe?
Line 97	Jose R. Rodriguez: I met her on a ranch, no, no, she lived on another ranch with her uncles and the whole family, her siblings. And they had their jobs, their crops, their work. Was there how many of them then? How many of you were there? Five. Well, five. They took over a ranch and they worked it. He's into cotton, said those who were there and worked it.
Line 98	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I wasn't there. And I was alone. And I was with an uncle of theirs. I was a seasonal worker. They didn't pay me, they just gave me. They gave me a piece of cotton land that was my own, and uh, I did that with the money they gave me, but they gave me my pants, my whole wardrobe, my shoes, everything, and they gave me all my clothes and food and everything.
Line 99	Jose R. Rodriguez: But they gave me a piece of land from the crops they planted. It was mine, and I got a little bit. Of course, over time, they were worth a lot for all my needs. And that's how they lived on a ranch. I lived off the scraps from another ranch, but all of a sudden, there was always something, and it started to bother me. "Look," I said.
Line 100	Jose R. Rodriguez: All the kings, well, we're already getting married.
Line 101	Martha Torrez: Give me a description of your wedding.
Line 102	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, you know my brothers-in-law didn't like me. For the same reason I'm telling you, I said, "Don't you want me to drink this glass?" And if not, then. No, no, no, no, no. It's a sincere affection. No, they don't want me in your house because, well, you know, there's nothing to it.
Line 103	Jose R. Rodriguez: I did. I had to go. Maybe. And when I became a soldier. So what. What did I pay for having children and what? Oh, well, from the possession all nerves and that voice, all regret and yes, yes, This is it. This is my fate, then. And if not, like yes. He doesn't hear what's coming. That nobody wanted me, not my uncles or anyone.
Line 104	Jose R. Rodriguez: And so, what are we going to do if you want, we can go? There's no other way because they don't want me in your house. I'm going to ask you not to, not to do everything again. So let's go and sleep. Let them go to the floorboards. The roots with the bag and everything, but from there they go home. They were playing with the drunk, right?
Line 105	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I always tried to make sure my partner was dressed well, neat, and I always tried to make sure that I didn't show off what I didn't have, but that they saw me very neat and up to date.
Line 106	Martha Torrez: So they went and got married in a civil ceremony.
Line 107	Unknown Speaker: Yeah.
Line 108	Jose R. Rodriguez: For the civil and for.
Line 109	Unknown Speaker: For the Church.
Line 110	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I have all my last names, her birth certificate, and her civil registry, birth certificate. So I also have all my...
Line 111	Martha Torrez: This is the issue of identification. What do you consider yourself? Some people consider themselves Mexican, others say they're Latino, or Hispanic. When I ask you what race you are, what identity do you say?
Line 112	Jose R. Rodriguez: I am pure Mexican, pure Indian, well hahaha, Sure, Well then.
Line 113	Martha Torrez: What are you doing? Your race, your nationality? What are you doing?
Line 114	Jose R. Rodriguez: Do I base it?
Line 115	Martha Torrez: Is it because of skin color, nationality, or language? Language, of course?
Line 116	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because it all comes from our way of thinking, our culture, our thoughts, our ideas. Our principles.
Line 117	Jose R. Rodriguez: This.
Line 118	Martha Torrez: Do your children also consider themselves Mexican?
Line 119	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes. No, I don't consider myself the same. I'm Bolillo now, but... But my, my, my blood, my... How fulfilling it is. My customs. How could I forget them? No?
Line 120	Martha Torrez: What is your greatest pride in being Mexican?
Line 121	Jose R. Rodriguez: That's wherever he's from. Yeah, wherever he is. I'm Mexican. The same as if I were Italian or Hungarian. Well, I'm not a native. I'm of red blood. Mhm.
Line 122	Martha Torrez: What's the most important thing about being Mexican to you? What would you say? What's the most important thing about being Mexican about your race?
Line 123	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mine is that wherever I go, I'll be proud that we have the Mexican tricolor flag, and not be ashamed. Why?
Line 124	Martha Torrez: The Spanish language is also important.
Line 125	Jose R. Rodriguez: And the others are good, but ours is nothing more. As our language says, it's the most divine.
Line 126	Martha Torrez: For your children. It's also important because while Spanish.
Line 127	Jose R. Rodriguez: Not properly, but my grandson also speaks Spanish, part of it, but my children do. Mhm. These are Mexicans too. Let's see when, as for being Mexican, it's like, about the challenges of, well, well.
Line 128	Martha Torrez: What do you think? What do the Americans, the Anglos, think of us Mexicans?
Line 129	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, uh, they think that doing good isn't enough, but rather expecting us to be people who, uh, that we, a cultured people, that we are people. It's more like living beings. No more living our lives from day to day. No more eating and having everything, and so they're the ones who, well, for those of us who don't have the talent they think we have, but that we do have, and it's more beautiful.
Line 130	Jose R. Rodriguez: But it's not that, uh, they make us look like a cow, that we're worthless. And that's how it is, that's how they are. Okay, now, there are many religious people, huh? They also culture our customs and because in no way am I also realizing what we have or what our pride is, what our vessels are.
Line 131	Jose R. Rodriguez: You know, you know too.
Line 132	Martha Torrez: You think we've made progress, that's for sure.
Line 133	Jose R. Rodriguez: One with you, that's not yet, well, why bother? But the youth now, well, not all of them, because some, a few like you and several others like little Dionisio, Raymundo, David, and nothing else. They, some young people who have made an effort to learn something and know how to live.
Line 134	Jose R. Rodriguez: They've had their education, their good schooling. Their parents have made an effort to provide for them, and yet, they're the most lost. Not all of them, because right now, no, no, no, there isn't a single kid, no matter how poor they are. No matter how humble they are. But also in their minds, because of those drugs, that marijuana, some of it, all those filthy people, the retarded ones, their minds.
Line 135	Jose R. Rodriguez: And they think it's okay, and that everything they do is right. But they're completely lost.
Line 136	Jose R. Rodriguez: Is it normal for us to go about our business like one, like they get what they want, huh? Perception: No, I don't know. No, no, whatever you want. Don't you think? No, no, no. Look for a way to tomorrow, please. But, uh, they don't care. No more. No more living this. No more. With those deaths left, with all the youth, young ladies and young men, there's no more respect, no more morality.
Line 137	Jose R. Rodriguez: You find a girl, the one with everything. On the one hand, in this one, without any culture, without any direction, because they didn't even make an effort to give it to you, because I don't think so, because now how do they behave? A girl, like, before exploding, an older person would give her her place. Now they blow smoke in your eyes.
Line 138	Martha Torrez: So, tell me, have you told me about certain events in your life? You told me something about the Depression, about the war. I wanted to add more to that because I'd like to ask you another question, because I remember you were telling me that all of that was about all the food and everything was rationed.
Line 139	Jose R. Rodriguez: Oh yeah.
Line 140	Martha Torrez: You were starving, right? They did allow you something, right? All the rations were enough to feed you.
Line 141	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes, yes, that's right, right. They didn't sell everything for a certain amount, they sold it as flour. But once there was a time when, no, they didn't have flour, they didn't have bread. Not loaves of bread. According to the family, huh? It didn't last long, but for a month or two they were giving me bread for nothing, right? And then we sold out. No more, I didn't sell anymore.
Line 142	Jose R. Rodriguez: Depending on the family, 25 liters of flour, or just look, or £10, or £25, or £30, depending on the family. But why would anyone be starving? No, no, it's not like that. No? Because the government has never allowed hungry people to move. No? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. For all the times. But it's always ready.
Line 143	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mostly with the children. The least I can do to provide for them. For the children. That they don't suffer, that they don't go hungry, that, that. And also that they have... Well, a little school. That's what the government is constantly worried about. And no, thank God, with that, I came to the United States because I didn't know English and there weren't many Mexican people and I struggled, or didn't get any work, and if the gentleman did go hungry, he would give us food just because, well, a relative, a friend, well, who's like that here?
Line 144	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, a Mexican is that I made him hear how look, well, giving in this way, since he had mercy, well, we go to my house and I think like a tortilla and... And so in that way, but when not that it doesn't cost anything and then they do open in English and have a way of living and going down to the mountains to the shore, because where there is a loneliness, there at night we would meet and where little or nothing.
Line 145	Jose R. Rodriguez: But thank God, how beautiful God was. The media and those times. Well, look where we are. We're going to be rich, but we have to live on, we have to eat, here people are starving. It's very much like creative people don't love him because they're afraid, but that's fine because there are people who die better than to work.
Line 146	Martha Torrez: What do you remember from the Mexican Revolution in 1910?
Line 147	Jose R. Rodriguez: I have one over there, I'll give you one, but I have my story about the revolution, not like what do you want me to tell you about? About what? About the revolution of.
Line 148	Martha Torrez: From what is remembered.
Line 149	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because I remember. From 1913, from the long barracks, from the Tragic War, when they killed Madero and Pino Suárez, former president Madero, president. He was assassinated, not by Porfirio Díaz, but by Victoriano Huerta, who remained interim president of the...
Line 150	Jose R. Rodriguez: Of the Nation. Because I already resigned because I felt that. That I already had him and since he left. And if he hasn't left, then they'll kill him. Then my crown goes strong. And then when Victoriano Huerta took the reins. Then when he killed Francisco Madero, the love of the country and president José María José María.
Line 151	Jose R. Rodriguez: As I told you, right now Pino Suárez and María Pino Suárez are the presidents. They were both shot, and then Raúl Madero, Don Francisco's brother, was killed. And then, when Madero was killed, Luciano Carranza was the governor of the state of Coahuila, where Luciano was. But when Obregón was killed, they killed Madero. Then he took over, Carranza rose up, and then that year all the schools were rebuilt.
Line 152	Jose R. Rodriguez: All the youth in favor of Luciano Carranza. And then, when the governments of Porfirio Díaz and Victoriano Huerta were in power, by civilized soldiers, by military men, then all of us and everything. Then all the people rose up in arms, all the people, from the youth up, for all the so-called. Since we were in school, we left school to defend democracy without knowing what democracy was, because people told us we had to fight for democracy, and well, what is that?
Line 153	Jose R. Rodriguez: Neither war nor democracy, if I didn't know that ignorant people knew about democracy, well, that was the best. Don Pancho Madero. But what we were doing. Well, then.
Line 154	Jose R. Rodriguez: When he rose up, and several generals then cleared out all the penitentiaries of all the murderous criminals, the penitentiaries were filled with people throughout our Mexico, all the penitentiaries, the jails, were empty, because we threw them out, armed. To fight. The government took over after Victoriano Huerta, and all the youth, us, and all the prisons, the penitentiaries, were empty in all the barracks.
Line 155	Jose R. Rodriguez: Since the penitentiaries here were the headquarters for all the revolutionary people, Villa Zapata was already being built then.
Line 156	Jose R. Rodriguez: Hey, the hippie, who was the first artilleryman at that time, the first in the world before, eh? First, he had been, eh, a student of Porfirio Díaz, this Felipe Ángeles. But during the revolution, then, eh, Ángeles supported Carranza, and that's when the government of Porfirio Díaz was overthrown, without any elements from the people. Well, rifles and ammunition, well, not bad, they were nice, but up until then, we got hold of the government's microphones, because all the people in the government were either people or forced laborers, criminals, murderers, and all that was doing everything wrong.
Line 157	Jose R. Rodriguez: But unbearable people emerged. They sent soldiers like Reyes, they gave you gifts with Porfirio Díaz, and there, or what was the Porfirio Díaz government, but all the people who had been forced into the country had their barracks. They had well-disciplined people, but they were oppressed because they were part of the 11th. They roamed like soldiers do now all over Mexico. Wherever you go, look at this, the soldiers roam free just to put out their, as they call it, right?
Line 158	Jose R. Rodriguez: He who not only does not kill.
Line 159	Martha Torrez: On schedule.
Line 160	Jose R. Rodriguez: Like that, but outside. And then, at that time, they didn't have it. It didn't matter all of Mexico. I remember that since they had the federation, the soldiers were suppressed, and when it was uprising, all the people under it, then we threw out all the prisons, all the states, and to show our faces to defend democracy as well. And a huge crowd came because the people, well, we sat down, as I said, the house is full of federal cavalry battalions and regiments, and we were here in our underwear, just in pants and barefoot.
Line 161	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, an old rifle, but when they all faced each other, the government people looked to us because they knew we were a very just entity, and God was with us, so it was like they finally ran out of ammunition. God gave us a victory because the same people, the government, were beating each other with their fingers, and a piece of scoundrel fell.
Line 162	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then with that vigor they will have the government back down and that is how the Revolution won.
Line 163	Martha Torrez: And how did it change your life?
Line 164	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mine?
Line 165	Martha Torrez: The revolution?
Line 166	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes, my life. Maybe my life changed when I came to the United States. Because I was, I was a soldier in Mexico, and I know the military structure. I know everything from the common people, from private to major general. I know everyone by rank: private, corporal, sergeant, cadet, some even. First lieutenant, second lieutenant, senior captains, lieutenant colonels, colonels, and generals, princes by rank.
Line 167	Jose R. Rodriguez: I know everything and the obligation of each one.
Line 168	Jose R. Rodriguez: Sir. Eh? And before, there were soldiers who were no more than two who didn't know if we didn't want to, they were soldiers. But when things calmed down, since they killed Obregón, not that they killed Carranza, the old Obregón world, then the fire, its law upon one. Because we, as we were already Carrancistas and at 8:00 p.m. at night, remained above honest, without burning a single shell, because when they assassinated Carranza, already near Veracruz, then he seized the reins of government, Obregón grabbed them, and since Gregorio didn't get along with Carranza, then they ordered him to be assassinated and them.
Line 169	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then Obregón took the reins, and then when they seized Obregón in 1920, that same year they killed Obregón. Then Obregón, our entire Regiment, ordered us to follow Villa, and we remember him because on the United States border, and in the same year 1900, in 1920, when Villa crossed, we went out to pursue him, but El Indio was in San Juan de Sabino.
Line 170	Jose R. Rodriguez: He charged because that was it. And he was left alone and without ammunition. I didn't say he couldn't hold on because he couldn't lose here, he couldn't ask for help. Here they grabbed him, they wanted him like a barbecue or whatever. They didn't want him, they wanted him still. Hell, they wanted him to pack up Villa Martelli's house until the Day of the Dead. So, that's how he took the reins and promised Villa he'd give him three years of pay from private to general, and he kept them.
Line 171	Jose R. Rodriguez: Three years after that, he gave them to the entire regiment, to the entire, entire northern division, and then he gave her the lands in Canutillo, in Parral, and he gave her all the lands and left her all his cavalry. All of them, at least, he left them to her and promised them to her. Manzanillo has the V in her head very well.
Line 172	Jose R. Rodriguez: And he went to farm his land with all his people. But the same miserable old man ordered his assassination. They ambushed him, and the old man died a little while ago. This is the barracks, one of the old men who killed Villa, and then he was at peace. He no longer had enemies. Obregón because Obregón was afraid of him.
Line 173	Jose R. Rodriguez: And since Villa was afraid of him, there was no way, no way, no way to get rid of him. And well, look, he made a good plan and it worked out well for them. And he got rid of him, he wanted to be free with no one to bother him, but after a little while, you don't remember, or you remember that, no, Obregón didn't last long, because from the Army, explains Hierro, he kills.
Line 174	Jose R. Rodriguez: That's not a saying. It says they kept quiet. He kills. They said it wasn't like that. Like he killed and ordered murder. Well, not him, but the Lord faithfully commanded. They killed him with a dog at a... The banquets they had. There's no woman. Where? At the banquet. And there Obregón honored them. And then Obregón recognized him by showing him. I don't remember. I have them there.
Line 175	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't remember who took over after Obregón, who was killed. Let me see.
Line 176	Martha Torrez: I showed him the posters of all the presidents and then Obregón, from Carranza onwards.
Line 177	Jose R. Rodriguez: Since the first president of Mexico, who was Guadalupe Victoria, he was the first president I looked at here, No, I didn't know the others, but from.
Line 178	Jose R. Rodriguez: From the Government of Porfirio Díaz until this date, and there it is. I didn't know them in person. There was Obregón, Lalo Gutiérrez, the general Luther speaks of, and he had a brother, Eulalio, too, and several generals, and the generals that I, that I was in on the last day of Carranza's assassination. So the regiment, because I, I, I belonged to the first cavalry regiment.
Line 179	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then when they killed, when they killed Carranza. And of course, the reins Obregón. So no, they didn't distribute all of us, the entire regiment of the First Cavalry Regiment. It's because they were afraid, Obregón, that we were going to do something. They put some squadrons in us, they put infantry in us, and we all got our hands on it. They sent us to different places, but I got my hands on the 4th Squadron. They put us in with General José, and the colonel, his brother, was also named Antonio Rueda.
Line 180	Jose R. Rodriguez: So one day we were in the 37th Regiment, the 120th, still the same year, and they became our regiment, the first regiment, because they put us in the different infantry battalions. And then.
Line 181	Jose R. Rodriguez: When I, when they killed my state, I was no longer there, I was, there was, they killed it 1123 So no, now, now.
Line 182	Martha Torrez: By then you were already in the United States.
Line 183	Jose R. Rodriguez: And now, now, now, that's fine. I knew more than anything from the press, because well, from the newspaper, because there weren't any dead televisions yet, and there were rifles. No, but the press did, and from around here, the En Paz magazines.
Line 184	Martha Torrez: Well, you mentioned presidents from here in the United States when you played and the Belt, so, this was it.
Line 185	Jose R. Rodriguez: President Truman too. Yeah. And what other president? Well, he's been a good person. And here the president has... Hey, this is such an excellent player who was also president. Now he's also coming out. Oh, you haven't seen him. Well, there are two left over there. Go to the other place that doesn't belong to him.
Line 186	Martha Torrez: Jimmy Carter. Yeah, this one. What other major events would you say you remember in your life that have left a lasting impression on you? Don't you remember any others like he said back then? He talked a little about the depression of the 1930s.
Line 187	Jose R. Rodriguez: And two.
Line 188	Martha Torrez: What about World War II, World War II, or any other war, or the Human Rights Movement? Any of these other events? Do you remember anything that left an impression on your life or your mind?
Line 189	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, after the war in Japan, after the depression, they had us limited, they had everything rationed, around '40 to '46, six years already, eh, they had us oppressed when they couldn't leave where you lived to go somewhere else, right? Well, of course you wanted to, since you didn't feel like it with the same, you remember, well loaded with no food, well, you had to be more.
Line 190	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yesterday they went to where the residents were, where the food was. You can't. How do you go somewhere else? No, no, no, no, not that either. Not having permission. Having you. True. For example, we lived in Colorado and we came near Denver. Then there was one. There was one. Like everyone else. Very well, happy. Ammunition, bullets and cannons and all that. Ammunition.
Line 191	Jose R. Rodriguez: But the government hasn't yet taken all those hits. But I'm keeping them, huh? Absolutely not. Well, men who aren't anymore don't care about that.
Line 192	Martha Torrez: That their children didn't go hungry. I mean, I think about when they asked for something they couldn't give them. What kind of answer they got.
Line 193	Jose R. Rodriguez: When we ask them for action.
Line 194	Martha Torrez: When you guys, like when you had all those. Rationed, right? Wasn't there a time when your kids asked for something you couldn't give them?
Line 195	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, since where they were, they were better off than when they were so old, than when there was food, because there wasn't even work and the little work there was, I'll tell you what they paid us: 35 cents, but when the hunger that was still raging, the war that lasted under Roosevelt's reins and everything ended, hunger, they paid us a peso more.
Line 196	Jose R. Rodriguez: And the airplanes, as I'm telling you, opened many departments in every town, all over the United States. Low-income people were given everything they needed every month. In your house, it wasn't enough anymore, you weren't hungry anymore. The people, all of the United States, and he was a good president. Roosevelt. Well, he died of a heart attack, but like me, like Johnson, Johnson too.
Line 197	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, they've all done some not-so-good things to us, but they've also done some good things because they've always been concerned about people not going hungry. Okay? It's a great privilege to have to eat, and they don't have anything because you don't have the courage to have it, and well, right now there's little work on the left. I think that's why so many people are doing bad things with hunger.
Line 198	Jose R. Rodriguez: It's a game, the saying goes. And that's it. But there are also those who don't like it, whatever the time. Right.
Line 199	Martha Torrez: Well, it's been a great pleasure for me, Don José, that you've given me this time for this interview. Hasn't it?
Line 200	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, that's good.
Line 201	Martha Torrez: Um. Well, I like to ask this question last, even though it's not part of this survey, but what do you think about what we're trying to do with this Hispanic story? Think about it, give me your opinion on what we're doing.
Line 202	Jose R. Rodriguez: Or am I going to say that it's one thing better than all the others? Because you, Dad, are you bringing to light all over the United States that takes from... No, not the whole world, but in the United States, what are you doing? And so that our country is our country, because here we are in our country, you are also looking for ways to progress and how every human being who lives here in our country can live more comfortably and so that we are not discriminated against, so that we can see each other, so that we can be cared for.
Line 203	Jose R. Rodriguez: Like nails, right? What, I know what. And that democracy is obeyed. Because that's saying I'm glad you're working hard at this, that you don't know anything else. But may God give you more understanding so you can develop this thing further, and that's fine, I like that, I'm not leaving anymore, I mean, what it is, I know what it's like to suffer, right?
Line 204	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because it's true. Well, because. Because I'm going to say no, no, it's not the revolution. It's that we go up to 15 days without eating, and what we eat now is maguey, eh, purslane, quelites, nopales, well, nopales, but the ox sales, just thorns, well, the little heart, and then we take them for a ride in a boat, and we don't make any more butter.
Line 205	Jose R. Rodriguez: We also suffered from Russian rice in Mexico. No, not here, not in Mexico, not in Veracruz. We already suffered the revolution, but we're very loyal, and we don't get paid for anything else. The children didn't receive a salary when they received it, when they already gave it to us, when it was established.
Line 206	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't even know what it's like anymore and.
Line 207	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't know. We didn't end up with it. Carranza, right? And then, they paid us. The soldiers paid us that, but not before. We were already arriving at a hacienda, a town, and we distributed whatever was in the stores. The people were already...
Line 208	Martha Torrez: Well, this morning's talk was very, very interesting, and I sincerely thank you all.
Line 209	Jose R. Rodriguez: Thank you. No, no, no!
Line 210	Martha Torrez: The sugar factory's job was.
Line 211	Jose R. Rodriguez: The one they sent us to bring. They sent people just like they sent me later. I brought people too from later on, and in that way we had to come from some with grudges against others, we had a lot of bone to pick, eh. But then we stayed there working and then, when the war started, then we lost to Michigan, which was different for our life, because we already said that they helped me work, we were able to get another degree from there, because we were no longer with the big ones, new, big ones, and then we communicated with them, with the comrade from the underworld, with the comrade from Wisconsin, Michigan, with
Line 212	Jose R. Rodriguez: The ones. The ones from the, from the sugar comrades. And then they were the ones who sent us and they didn't send us part of how many people they needed, the ones we could take. We didn't have to take like 50 because they had to work hard. No, they didn't let me, I don't eat sheep, they didn't let them, they were unburdened and all that. But the comrade paid us to be there, and the people, unlike the ranches, the people, the bankers.
Line 213	Jose R. Rodriguez: But my partner paid us, and the bankers paid me. People say they paid me for the work on the other side, and then, well, after that, we stayed here. The 50th is from the 52nd, that's why, and we came and went until we finally stayed here. I'm here, my boys got married. Jesus. And the others started in Colorado, who are also still the ones who...
Line 214	Martha Torrez: You were born in Mexico, right? So it wasn't difficult for you to immigrate from Mexico? So. Difficulties?
Line 215	Jose R. Rodriguez: You don't. I saw myself. I don't. Not the vision, nothing. Me. Well, the river and my life. Not My, my source. But that's why, first of all, I don't, in that same no. The fact is that if I cross the bridge, I don't. I named it the river and I walked here for a long time without papers until I got myself together.
Line 216	Martha Torrez: And during that time that was not fixed, what kinds of work.
Line 217	Jose R. Rodriguez: So, they work on ranches where they want buildings and work. But it turned out they never caught me, I was hungry like that, and at first, yes, when I went alone, once I found them at the soup kitchen, there was no food anymore, well, I didn't know anyone, and back then there weren't as many people as there are now. No, it wasn't hard, because with this, a tortilla, or something, you get hungry, right?
Line 218	Jose R. Rodriguez: It's not enough. You didn't eat all day. I've been with you for a week now, and I'm eating like a pig without knowing English.
Line 219	Martha Torrez: So how did I do it?
Line 220	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, I could eat it from people who speak Spanish. Those Mexicans gave me something, they helped me, and then he got me a job there with a man, and so, what if I didn't, but I don't see many Mexicans like now? Well, now that it's this afternoon, all of us who are there are more, they don't leave anyone wanting bread rolls because it was, it wasn't that I didn't, but yes, yes, maybe I was just having a good time.
Line 221	Jose R. Rodriguez: What if they never caught me? Stealing, doing wrong, not this, but never, ...
Line 222	Martha Torrez: And then I know how it happened that it came to be.
Line 223	Jose R. Rodriguez: Since it wasn't fixed later, it was fixed. You know, when I fixed it, out of 60. Look, all my children are from here, and they went everywhere. We took people out of the border crossings and immigration, who were the ones who were there, took them to see if I was legal, and I was illegal. And look, you worked there, only the kids who were tricked by Medrano caught me, the guys who were tricksters, who were from here, who said they had their passports.
Line 224	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well yes, they taught me with false passports already called and with the migration in the north by north by the Union, a labyrinth of wine, the And the wine came, the judicial and the immigration came and they took all of us people out.
Line 225	Martha Torrez: And they don't check you to see if you had it.
Line 226	Jose R. Rodriguez: Me and I brought two and I was the big boss and they didn't say anything to me.
Line 227	Martha Torrez: Alright.
Line 228	Jose R. Rodriguez: Now, everyone, already 18, 19 years old, every woman was already a family I officially brought in. They got into drugs under the guise that I brought these people in legally, and that shows that this is true. So those are mine, not seven of them sleeping very well. There's the six talking. They're not, we're not all from here. And what happened?
Line 229	Jose R. Rodriguez: But the others do. Over there in my living room, where they're like 341 and wet, and I get one of them from immigration, there's another one. I have to take them, they took them from me. And then, when the tapas were over, they went and gave them back to me, plus they lent them so you can go and do the work. After you're done, you bring them yourself, you bring them to the neighbors, all wet, well, what better way?
Line 230	Jose R. Rodriguez: But no, no, no, they didn't do anything to me, I didn't know, because I wanted to leave here, since all my children were from here, and look. And so nothing, until finally I have to fix it. And then. And that's why Solicitud is a gringo. We have to go find the citizen. Well, I'm not expecting them to live there much longer.
Line 231	Martha Torrez: And what differences would you say there are now compared to when you arrived in 1950? Now it has changed, I don't know how.
Line 232	Jose R. Rodriguez: A lot has changed because at that time there was still a little bit, a little bit, there still is, but not as much discrimination as there is now, now, since in the past there was, yes or yes, but no, no, not like in those times, when you entered a restaurant they gave you another one, in other restaurants they gave you there from behind, they gave you food, in a theater you didn't get in there.
Line 233	Martha Torrez: How did you feel?
Line 234	Jose R. Rodriguez: Or what? What do you mean I felt, huh? Well, because I'm angry because I'm miserable, not with an animal as with people. Well, I'm already a bit degenerate. What I wouldn't, no, no, wouldn't be getting together with one... Well, uh, 22. I want you to know that you're not, no, they don't allow a Mexican to enter the Negritos neighborhood and take you... Nothing from the neighborhood of nerves that have me in jail.
Line 235	Jose R. Rodriguez: And now my basic mistakes are with the blacks and the goals, and that at that time, no, not like that Mexican here, and someone comes and messes around here. Well, let's see, and they gave you the law.
Line 236	Martha Torrez: Me? And who am I letting down? What kind of discrimination do you remember, apart from the restaurants you say you can't?
Line 237	Jose R. Rodriguez: That went beyond that, right? Listen, it was me, when I had easily already entered, it was just me, to a theater, a restaurant, a bad room, but as I want it, it was already prohibited, that, that discrimination, no, that was at the beginning like 20-22, where it's very easy, almost no, that they just fought over work and it happened again, no, now not from here in the United States, well, look, it's fine, total migration and everything.
Line 238	Martha Torrez: When you arrived, do you remember there were few Mexicans, or how many? Did you tell me how many Mexicans come?
Line 239	Jose R. Rodriguez: Not many people came, but when the workshop ended, no one remained, not even Rafael Rodríguez, Pablo Fuentes, and that old man who died, who was our Mexican, who stayed.
Line 240	Martha Torrez: So they were the only ones who lived year-round.
Line 241	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes, he had his little house here, but it was still missing until now. Do you know Las Vegas? Well, they bring you their little house, and you're right there. Back then, I only had one guy; now I don't. Now you say little house. He's already sold one, he's living in another, but he stayed, him and Pablo. And this year, everyone gave us something, they gave us something, they stayed.
Line 242	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, the people who were there no longer had a life, they were just working. They worked on the Fierro road and had their fair share of jobs, but I don't know, no, there weren't any people living off it, like, well, no, now they even have stores, we Mexicans are living here now, thank God.
Line 243	Martha Torrez: In Hidalgo when I was working, I saw how the Mexican workers were treated.
Line 244	Jose R. Rodriguez: Today is like saying it's bad. Not all of us older students had a cowboy who appreciated us very much and who wanted us to work with him every time we came. His name was Leonardo. No, no, she passed away, but her whole family, very good people, but the rest of us need very miserable things sometimes, uh, well, they didn't have a cart to go out in, the cruise ships brought them.
Line 245	Jose R. Rodriguez: The companies have organizers who don't bring them, so we can take their milk in moderation and go to the ranch, and some of them were sometimes very miserable, because they didn't give you milk, even though you had milk from milking cows, but they gave you serum, they didn't give you good milk, but skimmed milk, and they gave you that. They gave you a bucket, a belly of, well, what, but good, I mean.
Line 246	Jose R. Rodriguez: And all this today, you're a miserable person. This isn't anymore. Here's a good one, like a wetback, it's different now. But when there were illegal immigrants, they would often visit them, and there's this Pancho here. Well, about your brother Pancho. No, no, they wouldn't let us see the wetbacks, they chased us away, they wouldn't let them, they talked to each other like a miserable person.
Line 247	Jose R. Rodriguez: Of some, because we have friends who were from their town and some and they didn't let us see them because they gave them rancid people.
Line 248	Martha Torrez: How else did they mistreat them? Did they starve them?
Line 249	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, no, no, no, no, no. The only thing they did to drug addicts was not pay them for their work; they paid us what they got from their rights. They couldn't. Well, it's because they didn't pay our people here because they gave us theirs. But they pay us so much by the hour or by contract. But the wetbacks, with the fear that they wouldn't be reported for what they did to us and they were paid.
Line 250	Jose R. Rodriguez: We went to see some of Pancho's friends who got kicked out for not paying them. They reported on them the whole season, and they didn't pay them, and they kicked them out. And then they told Pancho. And then we went to a theater to see Roger. Roger kicked us out; they wanted us to be really drunk. Really, really drunk, huh? Old-fashioned. Very old-fashioned, and not. And what do we do?
Line 251	Jose R. Rodriguez: So we told them, you know, there's a law for this next thing. And they're going to pay you. No. Better not now. No, we better not leave. So tell me they chased them off to court. They made them pay, but they went and acted like it was better not, better. Better. Fine. And this game? And he took me. And I was happy to go see his friends.
Line 252	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I'm actually hearing the same thing. Because every day this person who lives on board, one would have It's the right one.
Line 253	Martha Torrez: Why? Why did they decide to stay in the state of.
Line 254	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because it's not better this way anymore. Here, my work pays much better than in any other state, like in Arizona and Texas, eh. Well, California too. But here they preferred to say, "If we want to go to California, we'll go to California too." Good place. They also paid people for work, and there's plenty of work, and here they didn't like it because, well, people live a little more peacefully here.
Line 255	Jose R. Rodriguez: There aren't as many as in other big cities here. I have it here in my car, on the street, eh, look, there's the kid's car. From there, there's no one who can't hurt you, I can't do it anymore. Arizona, California, there's so much. You live here, you break in, and they take what you have.
Line 256	Martha Torrez: No, José, now I'd like to talk a little about your education. Isn't it from your studies?
Line 257	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, I don't have just a few days of school, months of school, right? He taught me to write just a little, but this is from Soria, from our Mexico, a little bit with the other stuff. But no, I don't earn my.
Line 258	Martha Torrez: Effort, the little that I studied, where I studied it in Mexico or here.
Line 259	Jose R. Rodriguez: In Mexico, I don't know what no, what.
Line 260	Martha Torrez: Here he never, never had an education, never went to school.
Line 261	Jose R. Rodriguez: And in Mexico it's a little school, accounting. No, I don't know how I managed. Oh yes, if I know English, how do I bring people in?
Line 262	Martha Torrez: Is that what I was going to ask him what he was like? He didn't have a problem communicating.
Line 263	Jose R. Rodriguez: Many managers I knew how to charge. I knew how much my work was worth, and I used to give them the all-clear. I don't know how now the boss has no idea, but I was the one who got my contracts when I flew to Israel.
Line 264	Martha Torrez: How did he make himself understood?
Line 265	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, I don't know. I knew how to charge them a certain amount for the work, and they understood, and so they fixed it up, and it turned out well. I went everywhere. And how do you feel about being good? Well, just so you know, I told you to go through it a lot, but I told you, well, not anymore.
Line 266	Jose R. Rodriguez: You see, some ranchers wanted to make me go through this, and no, I don't want the big ones. I told them, if they didn't, go to the ones who promised me what they promised me. Or what's the name of the place they go to for the commission? Yes, and they'll fix us up there. No, no, no more needs. And if they had to pay what they promised me?
Line 267	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because they promise me one salary, and then on the other end, they're with someone else, and... No, no, no, it's not like that.
Line 268	Martha Torrez: How did I fix a situation like that?
Line 269	Jose R. Rodriguez: Look, once you know them all, the older ones are brothers. They started out as ranchers. One with 50, 100 acres each. They're several brothers. Now they're a millionaire Brother, a pure agricultural implement. All our machinery, mop, so we planted one like me. Not them. He tells us, and we said, "It's ugly." And in conclusion, eh!
Line 270	Jose R. Rodriguez: They didn't want to pay me what they had promised. And then I got angry and made a noise and said, "Hey!" And I wanted to say, "If you don't pay me, I'll kill one of you, even if it's worth it." But they paid me, I'm going to kill, and today is a very big offense.
Line 271	Jose R. Rodriguez: It's as if I'd done it. It happened to me afterward because they told me not to see it. Pedro Rodríguez told me, "No, I mean, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, don't behave like that, no, because those are the words. Is it as if you're going to kill someone and then I get scared and then I don't?"
Line 272	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well yes I said.
Line 273	Martha Torrez: And the last one got paid.
Line 274	Jose R. Rodriguez: What they did pay me, because I said, if they don't pay me, I'm going to keep this department, that department, and you're going to pay me. No, isn't that right? Because they gave me less than $200 and something, and that money, right? My children's jobs. I paid them, but with what I earned from managing, that, that, that, that was a struggle, and I don't have to, they paid me, that it's not possible.
Line 275	Jose R. Rodriguez: After drinking, and now I don't remember looking at them, but they were talking to me, or do I know the commissioner knows that rifle well? Maybe the commissioner wants to know something? And after I left, I got angry with him. He... He... He sold me a strong one to get me up. And he doesn't know. I mean, not trained because of that strong one he put in.
Line 276	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't know how many. They're giving $50 for it. I have no joy in what this is like. It's like a gift I'm going to give you, but that cost like $500 or $600 at those places, well, it was more of a piston in the middle. Anyway, they returned it to him because that's what I started with too and then, with it, everything was drugs, so I trusted him and the corn when here in the mountains there wasn't, then there was no money in the mountains where they took it, I even went on a team, I mean, those from the north take it, the beans and every place full.
Line 277	Jose R. Rodriguez: When they built the plant here, it wasn't just that there was one and there wasn't any, not anymore, I don't know, until ten o'clock, they didn't pay you well anymore, because even then there was a lot of machinery, and the more, the worse. So they supported it, they made it manual and official. We're in Indiana, you've already rectified it, now give us the same problems.
Line 278	Jose R. Rodriguez: Is everyone happy? Why, for the civil life in Colombia, like the San Francisco and a plum tree. We put a light underneath, they know it's been left in the trees, and we fill the boxes, removing the others, filling it, and I'm just checking the trees, a line, a furrow of trees, and now I've pulled out another one on a tractor.
Line 279	Jose R. Rodriguez: I can't handle people anymore, not like the pencil was on the board of no, no more, there's no more life for no more.
Line 280	Martha Torrez: What do you think about how the treatment of farmers has improved?
Line 281	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, a little bit, not all of them, but the majority already, already, now, already, already, already. Because the government itself has imposed a quota on workers to be paid, and we're doing it. Yes, take advantage of those who don't know how to defend themselves. I don't know if there's more. Yes, if you're living with him there, then what represents you is taking us to be able to, well, be able to, take steps.
Line 282	Jose R. Rodriguez: Are you okay? Even though the ranch is stealing half your work, but still, good people who are legal, huh? They're paid for their work by the state, what a worker should be paid, and not working with an animal like that. Before, they didn't work from sunrise to sunset, everyone working more than eight hours and so much time per week.
Line 283	Jose R. Rodriguez: How many hours? Yeah, per week, right? Yeah, and a little bit more. No, and the more you don't train, the more they're seeing the number of hours, the way you sell yourselves, as yours. One, I put the checkpoints hidden like cars, like everyone else, like defending themselves. First of all, it's a theft from the Constitution and the Constitution.
Line 284	Jose R. Rodriguez: There, it teaches us our rights, which we also need to claim. But I don't have the Constitution. Oh, it's not the declaration. I can point out that migrants or anyone else are in accordance with the Constitution. What our rights are, and we should know how to even claim them, because they are ours, the people who don't know, well, just in case.
Line 285	Martha Torrez: But you seemed to be pretty good at defending yourself, right? Well, even though you had trouble communicating, you made yourself understood.
Line 286	Jose R. Rodriguez: Now if someone accuses me of them, because I already fixed my jobs and it's like it's fine. They knew English very well, which I don't know very well. I gave them a price and they had to pay me. They pay me so much like this and in this way, and I don't get the work I have to do in this way, especially if we're going to do it for them, but they have to pay us.
Line 287	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, no, no, and I don't know, and I hope my children don't, because there are times when I'm already living. I've forgotten English.
Line 288	Martha Torrez: And now I want to ask you some questions about the community, Don José. Why did you decide to live in this community? What do you think? There was a reason you decided to stay here, right?
Line 289	Jose R. Rodriguez: In that place.
Line 290	Martha Torrez: In the community?
Line 291	Jose R. Rodriguez: Don't you know that all the ones we have live, never the owners? Well, that's the one. We sold it because we were going to move to Arizona. We already have a daughter. I told her, "My daughter." We're selling here. We're going to Arizona. We bought, we sold the house, we got rid of everything. Yes, we put it in an apartment and went with my mom to look for a house there.
Line 292	Jose R. Rodriguez: We lasted two weeks this August, and all two weeks we were under the influence of heat day and night. And that air, that living air, gave me pneumonia. Yes, because there are nights in the port in Julio, you can't, you can't live any other way. But well, here you also have to, sometimes, from above, they said, and if you want people to die, the faithful ones who are working, well, the old bandits, if the heat, or rather, the smoke, stays, they dehydrate and...
Line 293	Martha Torrez: And what did you say? Better in.
Line 294	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, there's no climate like the entire United States. It's nice and warm, but no, you can't even breathe there. So. Silence. The air, the flat sun. Olive. We also live in Arizona, but we also have a small house and we sold it.
Line 295	Martha Torrez: But is this little house you're currently living in yours? You're renting it. Buy it?
Line 296	Jose R. Rodriguez: No, no, no, no. We paid for that house.
Line 297	Jose R. Rodriguez: Like all houses. No. Oh, well, I saw the war too, but I paid for it.
Line 298	Jose R. Rodriguez: I had 30 years to pay, and in 20, I was free. But then we sold it, and well, like I said, what are you going to buy there? No. They went out with me in, in, in, in their car, a book mentioned, saying hello, and no. And he just told me, well, the house is cool, but it's cold at night, because you can't be like that back then.
Line 299	Jose R. Rodriguez: I said no, no, let's go here, you're going to die, and let's go, Smurf. And then without a home and everything. Me, although they found an apartment? I arrived with Fidel. I said, "Hey, no, no, no, no more, no, we don't do it in Arizona, because we lived there for a long time and we also worked in Arizona, but we were newer and we were already used to the heat and we experienced it here."
Line 300	Jose R. Rodriguez: Pirates 50, another, another different climate and weeks of getting to know the temperature and we're leaving for a while. Back and without a home. We arrived and rented an apartment in Paris, one of the towers. And there we are, looking for a house, and there they are, down there and whatnot. And no, and I told them, well, let's see, let's see how we're going to rent an apartment and why do we want to get married, Moreno and...
Line 301	Jose R. Rodriguez: And he was left thinking, like you said. No, no, you don't know that we're going to look for a little house of our own and pay for it in cash. Because it's easy to get around here. There. But we rented an apartment. And you? We have lots of children and grandchildren. Let's see who shows up here. All of them today, lying in tents, out there, where no one can say anything.
Line 302	Jose R. Rodriguez: And there's no one there, no more. No, not these kids, no dogs, no cats, no more. 123 children, grandchildren, and that's all. The whole rabble is coming. "Don't run!" He said. No, I wasn't thinking about my old man. And I say that. Well, because of the money, we're not going to have him there. We're going to be paying the rent. You're going to believe that's all there is.
Line 303	Jose R. Rodriguez: You're going to Mexico and in a little while we'll go make the chickens. No, I'm not grabbing the fascists. I said before that we're running out of pennies. We won the little house for $24,000. I should have counted. Everything. I was like 30 and something, $1,000, because this old guy thought we were going to give him love, give it to him, and then we'd be paid for screwing ourselves every month.
Line 304	Jose R. Rodriguez: How about the lack of $24,000, it reached like 35,000 girls out of 40,000 and making a figure there with so many flowers and so much here and there that I said, hey, no, no, no, no, not anymore. So, what if you know the value of $24,000? What if it's the value of and that it's going to give you $24,000?
Line 305	Jose R. Rodriguez: I doubt it, because we always have the money in the bank. After Dad and Paca left and the old man still needs it, you know how it works, right? $24,000 cash, and he didn't say yes to me, but he must think he helped them get it or get it out of the bank, or if it was more than mine. It's not like I'm going to make them get it.
Line 306	Jose R. Rodriguez: He is the one. He is the one.
Line 307	Jose R. Rodriguez: He, he, he, he, he, he. He says everything. The whole he. The 21st, 24th, 30th. And he made him sick? Yes. And right here.
Line 308	Martha Torrez: He had the money in the bank. If only he had offered him 20,000.
Line 309	Jose R. Rodriguez: In what you said in this, Juan said, "I'm going to a cheaper house." And they had taken the money, $20,000 cash, saying, "Either one, well, now I'll settle." What do you want? We took it, and it's ours.
Line 310	Martha Torrez: It's your little house.
Line 311	Jose R. Rodriguez: That's our little house, and since they gave us the space, we've already got the agency. We'll be with the Morenos. We also have a will, but here we are, and there's no need for anything bad to happen to us, and no one will say, "Hey, why are you planting there?" He's killing us because they're working there. Thank God not.
Line 312	Martha Torrez: You belong to or are a member of some organizations.
Line 313	Jose R. Rodriguez: Not right now, so go ahead, Yes, but not yet, but it's already there.
Line 314	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because everything has already been generated.
Line 315	Martha Torrez: Today is August 10, 1991. We are at the home of Mr. José and Mrs. Guadalupe Rodríguez. The address is 502 17th Street, in the town of Julio, and I am Martha Torres. I will be interviewing you this morning. Mr. Rodríguez, I would first like to begin this interview by asking you how you and your family came to this state of Hidalgo.
Line 316	Jose R. Rodriguez: But not from my family. I came here alone in Mexico. In 1922, I traveled through different places, alone, sleeping under bridges in the East. The night called me alone. In 1928, I met my partner, and we closed up in 1938.
Line 317	Martha Torrez: So, this one to the state of Hidalgo. What year did they come?
Line 318	Jose R. Rodriguez: In the State of Grace. We arrived in 1950. In 1950 we arrived where.
Line 319	Martha Torrez: It was the first place they came to.
Line 320	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because we brought people there.
Line 321	Martha Torrez: We brought people from.
Line 322	Jose R. Rodriguez: Different countries.
Line 323	Martha Torrez: What they brought people to is what they brought young people to.
Line 324	Jose R. Rodriguez: Beets and... And then in different ones. So we ended up here and headed for Paris, east to Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, and now north to Wisconsin. We know all the states like Nebraska. We know all the states because we took crazy people. We also took people from each of the Laredo, Del Paso, Juárez, and Arizona crossings, and that's why we got to know many states in the United States.
Line 325	Martha Torrez: Since what form of transportation did they use to come to.
Line 326	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, when we came here.
Line 327	Unknown Speaker: Yes, in the car.
Line 328	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes, yes. So, we bring people here too. Well, we go to Jungle and we go to Napa. The sugar office. Right? And from there, they sent us to different places with the people to set up the Ranchos ranch, and we stayed there. And from there, we finished the job and came here. Then there were no more, and we came with our people to fish, and that same year, well, '50, yes.
Line 329	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then we finished harvesting the potatoes and went back to Arizona to tread cotton, because there were no machines there either.
Line 330	Martha Torrez: Everything was done by hand. So I work.
Line 331	Jose R. Rodriguez: Huh? We finished the work there in Arizona, and I'm not lying. First in Lobo, and we're off to fight for cotton. And you've finished it in Lobo. The Arizona River, too, is the cotton. And there it is. Until the salt mines came back again to get people out with them. And then they sent me from San Antonio, from the office, I gathered castanets, I sent us as many people as we could to contact for work, to take them, whatever you wanted, to Wisconsin, to Colorado, to Minnesota.
Line 332	Jose R. Rodriguez: We go to any state. So from there, the office sends us with the people and we, no, we. We liked to go as far as Canada, even to Minnesota, because the people who came, uh, they paid us no more than that, because sometimes they gave us $25 per head, more than that, and at $30 or $50, we did it.
Line 333	Martha Torrez: $25 for each person who was going to work. Who was paying them this money?
Line 334	Unknown Speaker: The company.
Line 335	Jose R. Rodriguez: The Sugar Company.
Line 336	Martha Torrez: From the Sugar Mill.
Line 337	Jose R. Rodriguez: Because people were fine with MHM.
Line 338	Martha Torrez: And when you brought people, you came alone, other relatives came with you.
Line 339	Jose R. Rodriguez: When we brought children and the people we brought. And I had finished it, I don't know, in Wisconsin, because everyone knows they closed the rest of it and they covered it up too. Knife. There weren't any. There were no machines, just knives. We covered everything. So much fuss and it was it. We finished and they gave us the pa Indiana to Rosario, tomato, cucumber and different ones.
Line 340	Martha Torrez: So you had a contract with the sugar mill.
Line 341	Jose R. Rodriguez: I worked there, I have, I have my story there, my papers.
Line 342	Martha Torrez: That was the first job I had.
Line 343	Jose R. Rodriguez: Already.
Line 344	Martha Torrez: And how much and nothing more they paid him for each person he brought or apart from that they paid him for the work he did.
Line 345	Jose R. Rodriguez: The company paid me for the people I brought, but the ranchers paid me with the people for the work they were going to do. For example, I employ about 20 workers here. The company here paid me for each head of cattle, and then the people I brought would take them to the ranches. The people who needed them would be paid by the ranchers, and they would pay me too.
Line 346	Jose R. Rodriguez: Apart from that.
Line 347	Martha Torrez: That was the salary in those days, everything.
Line 348	Jose R. Rodriguez: Time, huh? I remember they paid us by the acre, huh? And this time I don't remember Escalona.
Line 349	Jose R. Rodriguez: About $15 an acre. But then they planted it with a Tennessee Alcácer that's been small, steep all the way up.
Line 350	Martha Torrez: And with it.
Line 351	Jose R. Rodriguez: No.
Line 352	Martha Torrez: It hurt a lot, didn't it?
Line 353	Jose R. Rodriguez: On the contrary, well, it's up to you and the boys and at least this one, eh, what's the oldest's name?
Line 354	Martha Torrez: Oscar?
Line 355	Jose R. Rodriguez: Oscar: He's plotted. Those guys were going around and around, and they were as far as Miguel would have gone back. And well, this one that stopped me, a rancher, do you remember? The Bolivian one? Yeah, whatever you want to do, huh? No. And the best one, like they paid us back then. But they did pay us. Yeah, they paid me well because everything was cheap, huh? The work too, huh? Here, when I...
Line 356	Jose R. Rodriguez: When we were in Texas. During the Depression. I. I earned 75 cents, but not an hourly wage for the whole day. We worked from 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. I mean, unreal.
Line 357	Jose R. Rodriguez: We earned about five cents a week, which is a lot of money.
Line 358	Martha Torrez: You say this was during the depression?
Line 359	Jose R. Rodriguez: Yes. And many people left for Mexico because, uh, uh, there was no work. Me. I used to work on a ranch. They didn't work in the town. I lived in a small ranch with some ranchers and now, we didn't have work there. But the people in the town, you know, to pay the electricity bill, pay the water bill, pay the rent, and have to leave.
Line 360	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then there was a time before those in the presidency, Pastor Hoover, wanted the dam. Then there was a very serious depression, a lot of hunger, because all the money they raised for the dam, and at that time the grain revenue was 32 cents. But when Roosevelt took over the presidency. So as soon as he became president, because they didn't pay us in money, it was different. They paid us with flour, with butter, with the ranchers, uh, with corn, with wheat, they paid us.
Line 361	Jose R. Rodriguez: There was no electricity then, but Roosevelt grabbed it, so he raped her. Then, all over the United States, he grabbed the presidency. Him. And he did it to us. In pesos. The hourly rate for a server was a bad little card, and it was still a lot of money. But for two people, all day. It's kind of tough. But this time he robbed us, he paid us a peso.
Line 362	Jose R. Rodriguez: But all over the United States, he opened places where people lived, apartments where low-income people went, where some people there stocked up every month, everything from flour, butter, everything, even clothing. We kids have said that hunger was over because, well, his jobs started coming in, and the money was there, they had it. They had the capital hoarded, they didn't want to let go of it, but when Roosevelt took over the government, he was the one who did it.
Line 363	Jose R. Rodriguez: So he passed a law that all capital would be released into circulation. They threw out the money, paid people with money, and if they didn't, then he was going to cancel the money they had. It was going to be new money. That's what Roosevelt had been doing all along. And no, it didn't last 24 hours. That order was put in place within 24 hours.
Line 364	Martha Torrez: The President's power, right? His? Yes. If they didn't pay him a salary, right? With money. How was it that he paid rent? And the...
Line 365	Jose R. Rodriguez: During the regime's days, we didn't pay rent because there was no electricity or water. We have everything at the ranch; we have it right there on the shore.
Line 366	Martha Torrez: Who was in charge of the rent and the whole rancher or not?
Line 367	Jose R. Rodriguez: The councilman was from No, no, no, no, no, no, no, they didn't pay, no rent, they gave us a house to live in. We worked Mhm. And there and there. There yes. No, not having a job. The rancher. We have the freedom to go out. Look for work where they took us. But when he took the reins, Revolver was different from the life that lasted. Did it last?
Line 368	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, he didn't finish his shift; he died. Then they took over. Truman. Then. No, no, no, no, no. And look, when he took over, the war broke out.
Line 369	Jose R. Rodriguez: In Japan. I don't remember.
Line 370	Jose R. Rodriguez: When. When they fought.
Line 371	Jose R. Rodriguez: With Japan. When they saw the atomic bomb. Then he died. The president died of a heart attack and Truman took over. And then, when Truman took over.
Line 372	Jose R. Rodriguez: So we started going out. So, in. We don't have a wagon. We have one that sends us to the house in a pickup truck and it gives us until Colorado. No. When the ver died. And then? So, the war started in '40 until '46 when the war started. Because when we arrived in Colorado, in Colorado, the war broke out and then they wouldn't let us go anywhere.
Line 373	Jose R. Rodriguez: In every state, you lived here, you had to stay, and you didn't have to take your job, except that you had it there, until the war ended. Then they gave us freedom. They didn't sell you shoes, they didn't sell you food, they didn't sell you butter, they didn't sell you rationed flour. I had five boys, they gave me seven, nine, nothing.
Line 374	Jose R. Rodriguez: Nine little pieces of bread. One, one for each boy. There was flour, there was butter. There was everything. But everything was for the soldiers. Back then, they sold us by ration. You had some. A pair of shoes for the kids. You had a stamp book to buy it, eat what you had to eat, and the shoes for the kids. But that was during the war.
Line 375	Jose R. Rodriguez: But when it was reversed, when the war ended, then it was '46, then they gave us freedom in everything, in all the states that we wanted to win, not just because of '46 that the war entered the 28. Then we left Colorado and even Michigan, Michigan is coming out, but now free, because they didn't sell us gas, they didn't sell us tires and gasoline, everyone gave us a little booklet as a ration to buy stamps.
Line 376	Jose R. Rodriguez: There, to buy gas, they gave you a stamp with a stamp, a gift, a little picture, and then, if you worked far away, they gave you another little red book and they gave you the same amount for mailings to the public. But it all lasted. But when the war ended, and the whole West saw it, victories, gunfire, music, and well, freedom.
Line 377	Jose R. Rodriguez: So we left Colorado.
Line 378	Jose R. Rodriguez: We have a brand-new cart, a brand-new package with all the horned tires, all the tubes, all of them with a formula. There we go with a little cloth behind us. We're free now, now. No, no, we're not. Are we imprisoned and that's it? We even got to the point of wine and it was fixed the other time in the same mess, and then the beets ran out, and then people started coming from all over.
Line 379	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, no, not to the jobs. The beetroot job is over, discrediting you and all that, and it's over. So, we stayed, I didn't, I didn't come back. Peter Pan. We stayed.
Line 380	Jose R. Rodriguez: So I'm grabbing and grabbing. I work at one, at a car factory, at Chevrolet, at the plants, in Sayula. Then it was different, back then we weren't used to earning a couple of cents an hour. I mean, they weren't used to earning rials all over the ranch. Ah, but we leave on time. Don't say I'd eaten more before.
Line 381	Martha Torrez: What year was that?
Line 382	Jose R. Rodriguez: 46. Okay, then. So there you go. And I got in all right. It's fine. Everyone's fine. We got a little house. Finally, I started working in those better conditions, and then I was earning more money, and we were able to get one. We snagged it.
Line 383	Martha Torrez: Which is in the state of Michigan.
Line 384	Jose R. Rodriguez: They're still murderers, and that's something they're not. And another person keeps working in the same condition. They're 46, 47, 48, and they're not children, fathers, or husbands. And so, I traded the cart I had and the cloth for a big truck, a 41-size truck, but I think it was big but very old, 41-size, right? And then I didn't want to work anymore.
Line 385	Jose R. Rodriguez: I was in the factory and we weren't big enough, and we went from there together. There we were also playing the role of beetroot, and there I was, I was like, apple, all that fiscal fruit, and it was over. And then we brought our trumpet, and now nobody with everything and everyone from inside, and we came back to the Panthers or to Arizona, not for there we bought flags too.
Line 386	Jose R. Rodriguez: And then what? By the way, we didn't lose that little house. We didn't lose it. We paid for it. But the Arizona and the little houses, like two years later, with the bonuses per person. But I didn't have any. And I lived there, I left it to a son-in-law of mine to live there and then he bought a little house and, uh, and he told me that he had already bought a little house, that, that, that, that I would make the house for him and well, rent it out and or raise the rent, but he says no from my place, no because I have to pay the electricity and I come back, they leave and don't even pay me the rent and I come back then he sells it and
Line 387	Jose R. Rodriguez: He sold it and we still buy, not Arizona anymore and and and from there we come, then we no longer brought an old highway, we bought new ones. Yes, that's why we were doing very well. We brought people and then we bought with a trumpet and then we are in New York, in Wisconsin, we are here bigger and then the following year we took out.
Line 388	Jose R. Rodriguez: So let's bring two trucks to my wife's brother. He handled one of the drugs, and I handled the other. He's got us some people.
Line 389	Martha Torrez: The people they carried brought it. Where? From Mexico. From Texas? From Texas?
Line 390	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, from Juárez. They brought people from Mexico City, and we just went to the crossing. From there, we went to the traffic lights and... And the traffic, 40, 50, is still bad, the ones in black there, right?
Line 391	Martha Torrez: These people were born during the time of the Bracero program. Don't you remember?
Line 392	Jose R. Rodriguez: That was earlier. Not earlier. Then they brought it, the government brought it. I brought three books. I'm not among the five braceros they gave me, that I brought. The. The best I knew is. Were they there then? Not yet. I still don't have them.
Line 393	Unknown Speaker: I didn't have them.
Line 394	Jose R. Rodriguez: I traded in the cart, but they did give me people because I knew the people there, the ranchers, and I took them along comfortably, but later on, no, then I, I, my business was to take people out, wherever I wanted, because I had to have permission. Yes, because not just anyone took people out, we took people from Laredo, from Arizona. And And to bring them here and then, well, then the fictional Mexicans and kids, then they also took each one who was no longer in my brother-in-law, he moved away, we gave him a trumpet, he our old lady remover and he also started to other people, we gave him another old lady's leaf and then he took
Line 395	Jose R. Rodriguez: A new one with the old lady they'd given him. If I'm alive, huh? No, yeah, yeah. There were also two, he had two trucks and here he brought people. His name was Crime. That's right, that's because I had met him and no, well, later he was traveling separately, we also brought people, who if not, if I bring people I'm in trouble too.
Line 396	Jose R. Rodriguez: We don't all know each other, all of the United States.
Line 397	Martha Torrez: The State. Hence, what are your earliest memories of it?
Line 398	Jose R. Rodriguez: Is that a man? Where did you leave him? We lived here for about two or three years. They came and went. But the first time we met here was, uh, uh. I don't remember what year, but it was the first time we met here. First it was with him, and then he left. We came here, and they started getting to know us, and then they took us back and forth, but we stayed and never came back.
Line 399	Jose R. Rodriguez: Let's just go for a walk. But there's so much of...
Line 400	Martha Torrez: Who remembers that he remembers the town of Ondeo as it was then, no.
Line 401	Jose R. Rodriguez: He was just in the countryside. We lived in the countryside, so there was a Spaniard named José José José. I don't remember being Spanish, he spoke Spanish very well there. A lot of people from Texas would come there, and this guy, this thundering López, Benito's brother, would come with this bucket, the bucket, the guys would come.
Line 402	Unknown Speaker: Diaz.
Line 403	Jose R. Rodriguez: Mancilla: Yeah, uh, the Garzas, Alberto, uh, the ones who came from Texas. But they came back again, and that's it. The whole war. Well, yeah, they're all dead now. I mean, of all the people, yeah. Hey.
Line 404	Martha Torrez: It's that you are the strongest.
Line 405	Jose R. Rodriguez: But I think he's dying in Tecate because I didn't stay. He says the Lord wants the best. Well, I'm a bad guy. You struggling, huh? And here we are, thank God. And I have a recommendation from all the states I've been to. They have a recommendation from those in the court signed by those.
Line 406	Jose R. Rodriguez: Well, let them be the Chiefs. The mayor. Not the mayor of the town. He doesn't have them. They're the ones who came from the police. The Chief. Yeah, well, I have letters there from every staff I've been to, from California, Johnson, from Colorado, Texas, from Michigan, from the State of Michigan. And there are the letters of recommendations that I got in every town I was in. I, I, I, the court or the court with the civil and they gave me a recommendation about my behavior, uh, what I did and how I behaved, and for all of them they gave me everything and they gave me everything that everything, all the chiles, all the everyone and and it touched.
Line 407	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I also have a recommendation from some deputies, from some, as the other deputies are called, and we both served in the other Executive Body. They are two senators and two deputies. Go on. Yes, I also have one, it's true, from Frank Churchill, when he was. He was running. Stop, stop, Governor, I think. Okay. When Alfonso... Let's see. I also have to...
Line 408	Jose R. Rodriguez: He needs it now. When the Council, uh, started, he visited us, or he had openly discussed it, and we have many conversations. Look, we still have, uh, receipts for the first furniture I bought for my wife when we got married, because when we got married, my brothers-in-law didn't like me because I was a big drunk, uh? And they said he's starving, and I told myself I was going to bring him with us all, nowhere.
Line 409	Jose R. Rodriguez: And they were wrong because the one he appreciated the most was his first brother-in-law, because he was the first. But they were wrong about me, that I was a drunkard and a total slob, and that he didn't love me. But as I said, we left. The next few days came, and after five months, I was already working in a factory.
Line 410	Jose R. Rodriguez: Gas refinery.
Line 411	Unknown Speaker: In the clean.
Line 412	Jose R. Rodriguez: At Ikea. Then I started earning a little money, and when we arrived in Houston, I stayed with my mom. Back then, the bed was bare boards. Just a mattress, but they gave us, not just the two of us; as newlyweds, we'd have half of it and we'd make do. And that's how it was. It took about two or three months, but after three months of starting work, I left to help out on a Saturday.
Line 413	Jose R. Rodriguez: And to get some signatures from friends who knew me. And from the company where I was working, it was a Mexican furniture store. It's called El Álamo in Houston, and I went there and presented everything I had, who I knew, what I did, what my job was.
Line 414	Jose R. Rodriguez: And I ordered a bed with all the mattresses and pillows, sheer curtains, and go on, shut your mouth, no. They considered me in a bathroom with a coal stove. And that was the stove inside, inside the stove. Well, once I used it, I went to play games. And I'm going to be there and I'm going to order everything I need with my old lady.
Line 415	Jose R. Rodriguez: And yes, well, now our young people, ours. I already told you, the fucking owners of the Alamo, a huge outrage, with a bed with mattresses, pillows, and curtains for the windows, and a stove and a heater, an iron stove, and a washing machine. Also made of tin. In this case, they were used for the work of the...
Line 416	Jose R. Rodriguez: Anyway, he came and I just ordered, and now I also had a table with chairs and everything, everything, everything I needed in the home, or just like in the days I was on the floor, there in the bathroom and the design. We ate, but well, it was without knowing anyone. But well, I'd been like him for more than five or six months, and I...
Line 417	Jose R. Rodriguez: There are friendships here, there at the Refinery plant. Well, there I met a lot of people, very much the steward of the bosses who managed and the people who, well, I recommended, and I was the one who put everything in order and said, "I live in such and such a part of a cake and on one side of Houston." At that time, they did things for him and we put a porch with wire because a mosquito, huh?
Line 418	Jose R. Rodriguez: I said, "They're coming. There's my wife, and they leave everything there, and she gives it to him. Well, if they were going to bring him one, a truck loaded with everything, if we count it, and Santa Cruz de la Boca, I found out that I always stayed here. The next day, in the early morning hours, from there to the house, because I didn't have a car, I would grab a city car and take me there, not one who doesn't go for a ride."
Line 419	Jose R. Rodriguez: So I was leaving and I said, "Now then, I'm going to go like the people, nothing, I'm arriving and still piled up on the porch, I said, let's reproduce grass in the east. Hey, well, those things, why not the doors? And it was me with you who I imagine, but where we did that, we won the two in the morning, making the beds, putting everything together, we went.
Line 420	Jose R. Rodriguez: It's very different.
Line 421	Martha Torrez: He thought he had made a mistake.
Line 422	Jose R. Rodriguez: And that's how it is! And it doesn't die around here, thank God. Then my sisters-in-law didn't like me anymore, they didn't even visit me. And when the first kid, Juan, came. So I told him, let's play at turning religion upside down? Come on, we love you too, I love you, no, I don't love me, and I already sent him so that you, along with the little boy, and I'll tell you how, how we were living and no, well, they came to leave her, it wasn't anymore, it was different now and we've reconciled and we have the skin and here we are.
Line 423	Jose R. Rodriguez: Thank God it was different.
Line 424	Martha Torrez: Where he says you lived in the countryside, in the countryside, as you remember, the houses in the countryside were more or less.
Line 425	Jose R. Rodriguez: There were apartments there, they're a little bit small, you could live, not like here in Los Bucaneros and go to Rafa. But no, no, there you have them, eh, desperate to be a Spaniard, very good people. He spoke good Spanish, he was the one who sent us the guys who needed people. And well, it's so nice around here, well, there are many small towns.
Line 426	Jose R. Rodriguez: I don't even remember what Pueblito is called. They used to send us one over there.
Line 427	Martha Torrez: And the first contract, you say, was for the sugar mill? Yes, under contract. So they hired you. How did you find out about that job?

Rodriguez, Antonio (Tony) Hernandez

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Line 1	Patricia McDaniel: Okay. Today I will interview Antonio Hernandez Rodriguez of Nampa, Idaho. He lives at 1704 First Street South, Nampa. Today's date is November the 5th, 1991. My name is Patricia McDaniel.
Line 2	Patricia McDaniel: Okay. Let's start. Let's talk a little about your family's immigration and see if you can remember when your family came to this country and where they came from.
Line 3	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, the only one who comes from abroad is two in my family. I know my grandmother, Delfino, came from Spain. But right now I can't remember what year she came to Spain. The other one came from my father's side. He's from Mexico. He came to work here in the United States.
Line 4	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Around 1876, I think, if I'm not mistaken, my father's father.
Line 5	Patricia McDaniel: The great-grandfather.
Line 6	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Great-grandfather is sort of like my grandfather.
Line 7	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And my grandfather.
Line 8	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Since I had the light of knowledge, it was from the age, like four or five years old, that we lived.
Line 9	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In Texas.
Line 10	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: A small town, and that's where my mother died in 1925, and I was five years old. After that, my father did his best to put us in a safe house where they would take care of us. He put us with his current mother, my grandmother, Luisa Guerra Gómez, and that's where we were.
Line 11	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We grew up to the age of, like. The age of. In 1929, my father remarried Mrs. María Rodríguez María Salinas Rodríguez, his second wife. After that, we went to the ranch, to a ranch whose owner was called Henry Skinner.
Line 12	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And that's when we started to grow. We were there until I was 17, which was in 1937. In 1937, he got a little sad about working on the ranches, and my dad decided we should go to the town to look for odd jobs here and there, because there weren't any, there was no other way to do it. The family grew.
Line 13	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: What we had there was nothing but. We went to the village and found a lot of it.
Line 14	Patricia McDaniel: What was the name of the town?
Line 15	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In Texas?
Line 16	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we find a lot of discrimination about jobs. At that time, there was a governed job called El.
Line 17	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Line 18	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And since I applied for that job, I was already 17 years old. I applied for work, for that kind of work, and the Lord realized I wanted to leave. I went. He spoke to the woman who was in charge of collecting applications and arranging for you to get in. So, she never spoke to me, and she did that with many, many people.
Line 19	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Many boys.
Line 20	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Mexicans like that, because the bosses said no, I want him on the ranch and whatever he wants, right? Well, when, when we finally left, my dad really said, let's go, we're not doing anything here. We left, it was hard work every time the year came to harvest the crops, we even owed more money. We had to make it through that time, which was a very deep depression, this one on $12 a month.
Line 21	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we were.
Line 22	Patricia McDaniel: From $12 a month.
Line 23	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: A month's credit for food. But it was because we didn't grow enough corn, beans, sweet potatoes, and so on. And we had plenty. We had pigs, we had chickens, turkeys. And then we planted a lot of gardens, also with chilies and tomatoes and all kinds of vegetables. Well, we made ourselves very happy. We didn't bring the, ...
Line 24	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Whatever. We had plenty of beans. Sometimes Dad would go to town and find them cheap, and I'd bring Dad back very cheap. And when we saw that, what? Well, we just couldn't go to school. Because we had to work until a certain time. And then when we started school, it was like right now, like in November, and then we already had to leave by February 1st or mid-February. We had to leave because the boss wanted us to go plow the land, break it up, prepare it, plant corn and cotton, and everything.
Line 25	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Things like that. And we didn't have any other income, money only once a year. So, well, it's not like we decided to leave. When we left, I told him I wanted to look for work here or there, and we saw a lot of discrimination above the depression, there was so much that there were no jobs. Okay, so my dad said, well, what do you guys think?
Line 26	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh my God! And we just gave him an opinion that my brother, his father, and I had formed. We heard that in the valley we called Four Texas.
Line 27	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There's this one over there.
Line 28	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Jobs where people earn much more, often earning around $50 a day, and when the job is good, earning up to $3 a day. Well, with that spirit we heard, that made us want to leave there, from.
Line 29	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Texas.
Line 30	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So we went to look for work. We got there.
Line 31	Patricia McDaniel: In.
Line 32	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In Far. And then? Then, yes, gentlemen who gathered people to take them to work.
Line 33	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We worked together many times.
Line 34	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: An hour, two hours a day. Many times we worked three hours and earned a dollar, one, ten, one, fifteen, or something like that in the time we worked. And during that time, that money served my dad, so he used it to bring us food and pay rent and whatever was needed for the house.
Line 35	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, there were about three, three years. I think we had it. Until one day we heard that here in Idaho they needed workers for. For. Beets.
Line 36	Patricia McDaniel: And so.
Line 37	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 40. That was 40 when we did that. But we didn't get ready to come until 41 when a friend of my dad's, Reyes Ramírez, invited my dad and said, "Look, Pedro, son, these guys you have are very good." Well, they were good workers, and all of you there can make a few cents to make a better living.
Line 38	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And my dad took him at his word, and said, "If I'm going, if not, I'm going with you." "Yes, if it's true, it's here," he said, "well, come in and let's get people here." My dad made arrangements about two months before he left, and so we came. We saw, we arrived here in May, in April 6, in 1941.
Line 39	Patricia McDaniel: And how they came.
Line 40	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In.
Line 41	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Eastbound Transit. We need to pick that up. Right? It was in.
Line 42	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: May six.
Line 43	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: When we got here. May six East. And how I wonder if it is.
Line 44	Patricia McDaniel: And how they arrived in En. On a bus or in the family car.
Line 45	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Did we arrive? No. They had the trucks with the trailer open. The big box? No. And we came, so to speak, just like the cattle say. And yes.
Line 46	Patricia McDaniel: To all.
Line 47	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Family, The whole family. Yes, of course, one of the sisters, or my sister, who is the only sister of my brother and I. My brother died. I don't know if you died in July, on the first. Well, we all came. My dad, my stepmother was José and Zulema and I and Santos.
Line 48	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: This one. And we arrived here, as I said, around May 6th, and we started working right away.
Line 49	Patricia McDaniel: Whom.
Line 50	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And no and we landed in.
Line 51	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In Aberdeen. And it went down the drain.
Line 52	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And on the second day that he was there at that little ranch, a man named.
Line 53	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: George and what.
Line 54	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He came and saw us there playing ball with a stick. We were playing there, kicking the ball around. This guy comes and asks us. He was a hoarse guy, he was fine. He performed an operation on our throat and he's left hoarse. His voice is very, very hoarse. But anyway, he was the one who told us, "Guys, do you want to work in English?"
Line 55	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No? And then? Then we don't get close to the English. And since we don't want to work, that's why we came then. Well, tomorrow he said, "I want to take you to teach you how to cut potatoes. The seed. Well, he says that another day we never needed this sleep because by 5:00 we were ready, and then he comes, they come here around 7:00 and he put us in his cart and took us to an underground plant where they harvest potatoes in winter, and there they had the one they call it, you fill it with potatoes and then the potato comes out little by little and the blades stop.
Line 56	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There we grab the potato and cut it, and cut the other little piece and put it in a sack. Here we go, and well, we work, we work a good day, we say we work until about three and then he comes, and that's enough. Tomorrow they come again. So that day, for that day, he gave us $5 in pure silver, silver pesos each for one day.
Line 57	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: During that time we worked there, our hearts opened to a state of rage. John, "Well, we looked. We wanted to know, what were you going to tell us? You have to work for all the other things, right? And when we were about to get in the car, I said, "Well, I told you how much work is going to cover with this and with what you did just now?"
Line 58	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, we'd be happy to go with Dad and give him that money. And by the way, he was just about to tell us where you guys got this money from? That much? Right, right?
Line 59	Patricia McDaniel: And it was like they robbed us.
Line 60	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I want God to burn my tongue. If I'm lying. Well, no, I'll get over it. Every other day he would call us to see if we had time because we were committed to the Lord wherever we were living. It was his name.
Line 61	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: White.
Line 62	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He was German. This old man died, and he started working with beets. The whole family started working, and we started making a lot of money. There were times when we were young, you know, we made up to $7. My dad, well, we helped him. He wasn't as light-hearted as we were.
Line 63	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Youths.
Line 64	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But we still made it pretty well, the 25 to 30 dollars a day, but we worked hard from sunrise to sunset every semester. Well, and so we left and went to the town. And when the blood ran out, my dad decided. Saying, guys, Texas has nothing for us. As you can see, we're with you as well.
Line 65	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we're going to look for stable work here. Well, look, the summer jobs are gone. And then winter came, and all the potatoes in the Valley were harvested.
Line 66	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And then we looked for work in the underground branches and we got some and we worked all winter, so that at that time they paid us another 75 cents an hour. And it was a lot, a lot, a lot of good money compared to where we came from. Okay. And so it went on for two years until I got my.
Line 67	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: My readings.
Line 68	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: From military service in 1943.
Line 69	Patricia McDaniel: We'll come back to that in a moment, Meanwhile, they were living there in how they lived in a house to rent or buy a house.
Line 70	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, sir. We lived in a stable that had some nicely appointed rooms. Right. But when we finally got a job, in two or three years, we moved to the village, to some apartments. It's very convenient with all of them. A small kitchen and a 4th bedroom, a thousand and one. And a bathroom and everything were very convenient.
Line 71	Patricia McDaniel: An apartment for the family.
Line 72	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, no, no, I know apart. I was already married. Aha. But me. You know the custom there, each one with his father, until the father says, "Okay, from now on everything and." And so, when we started working on it, in the winter was when he told me. And he said, "And you can smoke in front of me if you want, you're a man now."
Line 73	Patricia McDaniel: And not.
Line 74	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, no nothing.
Line 75	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We had a very high level of respect for each other, and everything he said was... There were no reproaches, and there were no bad replies to him, nothing.
Line 76	Patricia McDaniel: He was the boss.
Line 77	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And he wasn't a good boss. He wasn't opportunistic, he was nothing. Nothing more came out of himself. He says, well, you're a man now, you have your family, and that's it. He even gave me a little money. He said, "Look, he's already looking, I'll party him up, and from there on out." God bless you.
Line 78	Patricia McDaniel: And let's talk a little about the community. There were other Hispanics at Everything, there was a Hispanic community.
Line 79	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, there weren't, there weren't, as they say, a neighborhood or a neighborhood is born. There were Hispanics, who came to work, there were, I'll tell you right now, two families there who had been there since 1938. The first ones left, the gentleman was Don Rafael Mercado and... And those who...
Line 80	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And another, another family, Cepeda, Longoria, from Peru. No, no, no, I don't remember the names of the old people, but that's how it was. And we came. We stayed that year, 1941, and then they arrived in '42, two or three more families arrived and stayed and stayed. And the more we don't, now yes, now there is a neighborhood.
Line 81	Patricia McDaniel: There are quite a few, there are quite a few. What I'm interested in is knowing how you spent your hours after working at Everything, when you were newcomers, after arriving, for example, at the beginning of the season in April, how you spent your rest hours?
Line 82	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, there were. As we were, as it was, there were the young people and everyone. No, we weren't used to going to, as we call it, weekends, to a bar, to go and chat and do this, they weren't.
Line 83	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Smoking and everything.
Line 84	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That's it. We didn't have that, did we? But we did have fun because I was free to go kill hares, rabbits, or birds to eat and all that. We were going to change all that, but there wasn't one. At that time, there wasn't even a Catholic church, which was where we came from, our religion.
Line 85	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There wasn't that, he didn't get in there until we had already left when he got in in 1900. I think it was in 1960 or 58, around that time for quite a while.
Line 86	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, yes, yes.
Line 87	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: People started to gather. Yes, yes. And they spoke to Mr. Al. The father of the boss there. Of the. Put it on. And the bishop came and saw that there were a lot of people. Then they built a little church there with No, and now it was really nice there. And there are a lot of Mexican people, and look how nice it is now, and wherever you look, all the people come in.
Line 88	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Girl or young man.
Line 89	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Man, secret business is all mixed up. I mean.
Line 90	Patricia McDaniel: Now yes.
Line 91	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, now.
Line 92	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, but not before.
Line 93	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No. And that's not the town. Listen, I've never experienced any kind of discrimination.
Line 94	Patricia McDaniel: There wasn't one. That's why.
Line 95	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No.
Line 96	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There is still none.
Line 97	Patricia McDaniel: And not in schools either.
Line 98	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Neither, huh? There weren't any here either. But when the Germans started the war, they were the ones here. The ones who were afraid. This discrimination against any race, not just us, the Japanese, Blacks, and Indians. And all because they lost the war. That's why they turned back, they came together. Oh, what, the workers. But they lost everything.
Line 99	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I was one of those who fought hard against discrimination. I was the first to remove all the Simpsons they had here. This one here in the underworld, they had nothing like that: no Jews, no Mexicans, no Blacks, no Indians, no Japanese, no dogs. Mhm. So be it.
Line 100	Patricia McDaniel: Here in the.
Line 101	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Country. And here I was already working at the barbershop, when my daughter came and complained to me. The big one is there, Olga. And that's where I took up arms. But since I was going to school, I was governing.
Line 102	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Government in Politics six. Well, different classes, right? Huh?
Line 103	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Make me understand my rights here in the United States after coming to fight for another nation defending it, coming back, seeing that here the housing of the Mexican, the Indian and everything was worse.
Line 104	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Hitler has that.
Line 105	Patricia McDaniel: So if you went to a.
Line 106	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: To Germany.
Line 107	Patricia McDaniel: Germany? Yes. In what year?
Line 108	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: It was the 40th.
Line 109	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And five? Mhm. Yeah, yeah. At the end of the year.
Line 110	Patricia McDaniel: At the end of the war.
Line 111	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: If not, the war would have already ended. Yes, that's right. I arrived there 19 days after it ended, because they were there. Me, me.
Line 112	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I was in.
Line 113	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: April.
Line 114	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We'll never see each other again. When I came, I was in. We were in. I've even forgotten the name of the guy from the little field.
Line 115	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But it's in New Jersey.
Line 116	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we were ready to leave. When the war ended, we were already on the boat. When the war ended, right? There were a lot of kids who were enjoying themselves, they jumped into the water from the boat.
Line 117	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And you? I wasn't, of course, very cold. You were very cold. And then, like, they took us back to the barracks for two days. And then they took them back to the Rainforest and started throwing us out again. And they put us on the list of... As they call it... The peacekeepers, as they call it...
Line 118	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They had to write us down on papers to explain what we were. All of this took us two days, but there were a lot of us, 5,000 of us on the boat. I was one of those who got to go there because I was very lucky, because when things were going well, they put us there. We arrived at the Desco, where there were four or five men there.
Line 119	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Generals, some generals like with their.
Line 120	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And all that. And he said, well, you.
Line 121	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You come or.
Line 122	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Since you're going to the Pacific, and the second one, you, even I want to, and you go to the Pacific, from your to there. What they did is they divided us up. I took a friend who we wanted to go together, because they sent him to the Pacific, and me there, and that's why I did it. Well, they didn't know how long it would last, or they didn't know anything.
Line 123	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Still everything. The Germans have already dominated them and taken away their weapons and all that, but this one, anyway, we landed at the...
Line 124	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In the in the.
Line 125	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That's where we are. And then we were there for about 30 days until they kicked us out. But I arrived there 19 days later.
Line 126	Patricia McDaniel: After the.
Line 127	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, it took us almost nine days, 12, ten days, 12 days or so.
Line 128	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And the water.
Line 129	Patricia McDaniel: He stayed in Europe.
Line 130	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Or I had. I didn't come until the or I lasted close to two years, like a year, 11 months.
Line 131	Patricia McDaniel: Well, in France.
Line 132	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, not in Germany, in France only a month when we entered.
Line 133	Patricia McDaniel: And from Germany he returned here.
Line 134	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, come in.
Line 135	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, and don't talk a little about your work with anyone. Discrimination. No.
Line 136	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Or well, when. When I came back, I came with this mind, recharging my mind. On the study I wanted. I wanted to study. I wanted to go to school. I wanted to learn more. And I myself. I analyzed my way of thinking about the businesses I wanted, knowing that I couldn't do it. It's because. I corrected it because of the lack of education I had.
Line 137	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But all the time I had a. A big one as they say.
Line 138	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In English Y.
Line 139	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You never and I was and I was granted that when I. When I arrived.
Line 140	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Here.
Line 141	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We started hearing about it before I left the military service that I did.
Line 142	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Scrapped by Luis Washington.
Line 143	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: This. Or what were going to happen, Bill.
Line 144	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Bill of sino.
Line 145	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That the military was able to go to schools, certain classes that one could, that one wanted, right? And it started for me.
Line 146	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Okay, I passed through here in Tampa, but from here, from Chicago. I told my wife that she'll be there for about ten, fifteen minutes. And I want you to give me at least $10 because I haven't had any money for almost six months, because when we went to sign for it, we were saying, my name was written here.
Line 147	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I had to put my name here, pay my fee and the gentleman in front of me put his name in my line and that was the end of it for him and me, because I had to come.
Line 148	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Everyone to Washington D.C.
Line 149	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And arrange it here and then send for the paperwork. But as soon as he caught his flight, they got news that my time was almost up. They didn't send me anything, and they didn't pay me. We did pay me, but the...
Line 150	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The second Kenneth.
Line 151	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Kenneth, who was telling me, Tony, are you going to take all this? But they gave me a little piece of paper to sign and I took it like that.
Line 152	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Chu chu space y.
Line 153	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Things I wanted there.
Line 154	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: From the PX.
Line 155	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we discounted all of this and all of that because that was like a test I had to take. This wasn't good either because I didn't lose any money. Well, when we arrived, I had all these new things here, from when I arrived back and so on. My wife was also very illiterate, so to speak. She went to school, but no, no, she didn't know enough yet.
Line 156	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: What I was saying to myself: Well, you know, there's a school in Mexico that doesn't train you. There's going to be something like this for you, a veteran.
Line 157	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: If I already went and.
Line 158	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, but I needed a job too, and uh, I've always liked this barbering job. And then? Then, then, then I went here to the.
Line 159	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Administration.
Line 160	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I submitted my application and everything. No, then they caught me. I mean, how hard it was for me to get in. It was in '47, it came out in December, '46, in December 7, and then by November 10, also in January 1947, I was already going to barber school, and the government paid me $90.
Line 161	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Per month. And they still gave my wife 80 a month, like everything she was receiving when I was there, even though she was in school for six months. And when I finished school, I started studying. Then I became an apprentice, but as an apprentice, I was already earning a little bit, okay? And they let me spend a year.
Line 162	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I had to be an apprentice for a year. They let me spend a month to see how much I could make per month. No, if I stayed a little longer, then I think I turned out to be pretty bad at beards or haircuts. Well, that's where I was. I was an apprentice for a year, and at the same time I was doing the picking and picking.
Line 163	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Little boards and the fixed foot, that's how I started it.
Line 164	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I had to gather little boards here, there, and this, what I did here, so when I finished my apprenticeship there, I said, well, I'm going to do the struggle of opening my barbershop in my house, right there, not in my house? Yes, that's how it was. When I finished everything, I already had everything, this or everything, everything like this, these old women with horny skin were there, and I fixed everything up nicely.
Line 165	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Then I was inspired by.
Line 166	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: More study.
Line 167	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Collage. I had the barbershop that fulfilled my.
Line 168	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Master barber license.
Line 169	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Not the one I can work on my own. So I applied for going to school at night.
Line 170	Patricia McDaniel: And I opened the university.
Line 171	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah.
Line 172	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But I wasn't there for long. I only had three weeks, because at that time they were already working on the idea that those studios should also be here, in a place for the people, kids from here who didn't, didn't need to go there because I was paid for everything, the government paid me, the boss paid me. They gave me some tickets from here and another from here, and it went on, and it wasn't bad, they changed it here.
Line 173	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I said, "I'm going to get old here." It doesn't help if I study a little.
Line 174	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And yes. And a.
Line 175	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I learned a lot about how one feels free to make decisions about things that are happening.
Line 176	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Everything. Everything. Good.
Line 177	Patricia McDaniel: What courses did you take?
Line 178	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: On YouTube me. How do I tell him that you me.
Line 179	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Take this one. They also gave us this one. The Sáenz Me joke.
Line 180	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I had to grab it. Those are the three I wanted. But I had to grab Pipe Rider.
Line 181	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: My wife told me the other day.
Line 182	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Of coach and well, he said you don't have in.
Line 183	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The fingers. I say as I say well, in another.
Line 184	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Vehemence Yes.
Line 185	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But those three were there.
Line 186	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And here.
Line 187	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That's right, me.
Line 188	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I hit him.
Line 189	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I hit it, which until then, well, helped me a lot because that's where you grab on.
Line 190	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Go to the Libraries.
Line 191	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Then, some books about how I wanted to know about my rights in a certain way, and the other things were like talkativeness. All that, right? He gave it to me, and there were people, women and men who helped me a lot. And then I went very far. Until this happened, which was in 1960, when this, this discrimination thing, they started putting non-Mexican sims and after a while another one would put a black one.
Line 192	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: If not this is not good. So much so that when I saw.
Line 193	Patricia McDaniel: Why were they published at that time? There weren't any such news stories before? No.
Line 194	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No.
Line 195	Patricia McDaniel: This is how they started in the year 66.
Line 196	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, they didn't start in the like 59.
Line 197	Patricia McDaniel: With the bad news of not entering.
Line 198	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And don't let it go. If it didn't start with a restaurant they called Bloomberg. And this with the Japanese.
Line 199	Patricia McDaniel: That against them.
Line 200	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Japan, against the Japanese, and they didn't want them in the barbershop, they didn't want them in the restaurant, they didn't want us, and so on and so forth in many places, but all in a row, that I was like a German descendant, right? We lived there, and then suddenly, around '59, we saw a place that wasn't Mexican, but anyway. And there's everything. I was studying this, studying and belonging.
Line 201	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In the children, in the worlds and in the Nights, Columbus.
Line 202	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I belonged to myself, and at the American Games, I said I'd go to every meeting to find out, to see what it was like today, and everything from there on, right? And the whole time, I was very, very, very active, active in everything, and making people laugh and all that. That's how I was, and I got along really well with all these people from the members.
Line 203	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: When this was offered, my daughter came and complained to me about what a girl on a tour the teachers gave her had said to an old guy here in Tampa. He arrived, they got to where there was a movie theater—not Mexican, not Black, not Indian, etc.—on TV, and her little friend said to her, "Listen, can my dad come in now? Can't yours? Yours is Mexican, and mine is White."
Line 204	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I mean, it was him. He came in all embarrassed, saying, "Well, well, he came right here, here, and we stopped for a bit." I had the chair right here, so it doesn't cut hair. He stood there crying, telling me he was already 879 years old. I mean. And since I was busy with a dealer, I saw him too. I even shed a tear.
Line 205	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And he enters.
Line 206	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Courage, right? Yeah. But I kept thinking, "This has to be fixed for Brown."
Line 207	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There were no demonstrations.
Line 208	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Never. I was there first. I started with the same thing.
Line 209	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah, yeah. He's retired now. Yeah. And he asked for some advice. Advice? And he asked me. And he knew us and loved us very much the whole time. He left him. Look, he left everything. He told me: It's the most beautiful and most lovely thing you've ever done in my life. No advice. I appreciate it. And you already knew history?
Line 210	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I'm not saying that. Look, never raise your, your, your anger against what name they give you. The most evil word you can. You bow your head, lift it up, and look to the sky and think that you're going to pick up that man with your heart. And if he doesn't come because you bring him, you want to bring him.
Line 211	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He comes alone and he told me things like that. And I came and analyzed them, and since I read the Bible, I also looked for those parables where the Lord spoke. So, okay. Then, after we put together the first meeting, we put together just fathers, a new one. And the bishop spoke there, and then I spoke, uh, my intentions and everything, right?
Line 212	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, they gave me a very good answer about what I told them: I didn't want to, I didn't want to make any enemies. I wanted that if there were rights for a person in, in a list of their constitutions, then it was either yours or America's. And I wanted to be there.
Line 213	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Fitted into the you.
Line 214	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Or I wanted to know who was going to tell me I couldn't see. And so it went. Well, when I was done with the clergy, I went to the organizations, and they all supported me there, too.
Line 215	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So, in my opinion. Well, to the house, no? And so it was.
Line 216	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But well, the first year. No, no, no, we couldn't do anything because the mere.
Line 217	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: True we mi many documents.
Line 218	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Of what was happening and everything being so late, a lot. But the second one, which was in '62, we started very, very early and everything was very well prepared. And this Mr. Dunn.
Line 219	Patricia McDaniel: They sent the documents to Washington or here in the West.
Line 220	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Here.
Line 221	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And he went to the Way to West tree.
Line 222	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. Yes.
Line 223	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We had copies. We had tons of copies of everything, and portraits wherever they were.
Line 224	Patricia McDaniel: No, no, they didn't have that one.
Line 225	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah.
Line 226	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes, and all that and. And everything happened with everyone. Well. The law passed the first time, it didn't pass because there were...
Line 227	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In a perjury.
Line 228	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That things weren't going well. That the lawyer, the man helping us, was the real deal.
Line 229	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Of the one who was.
Line 230	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And Tony told me.
Line 231	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I got it in Go back in. And we, we stopped it and everything. And the thing about.
Line 232	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Reward.
Line 233	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The Graphic, and when it was finally enough for all of us who were there. Yeah, I already had a little black guy, a Japanese guy, a Jew from everyone, from everyone, from a group called We Agree with the White Change and all that. And we brought him back in and it happened.
Line 234	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He passed. He passed her. He saw her, you felt her.
Line 235	Patricia McDaniel: And I felt. Yes, it's a from here of.
Line 236	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: It was already.
Line 237	Patricia McDaniel: And what did he say?
Line 238	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And it does.
Line 239	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So much so that I don't.
Line 240	Patricia McDaniel: Motivates.
Line 241	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh.
Line 242	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, this one. This one was all about it, so I couldn't see any kind of discrimination. No. Because it was. Because it was. Another nationality, Because it was Prieto, Susskind, or Brown. And that's it, and all that, that's over here. And it hadn't been long, it hadn't been long since it had started, it had been like a year or two or three.
Line 243	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, well, he told me about four years because it was like '58, '59 until 1962. I did, uh, it's over. Ah, well, yeah, yeah. About that, I continued working in community. I don't know, so that's how it goes.
Line 244	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: To the to the jazz. But in Reason I manipulated by sic.
Line 245	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: People and...
Line 246	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I became very popular.
Line 247	Patricia McDaniel: Here.
Line 248	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In and, I still like it at my age. I like helping, doing this, and I don't like the community because God also said, "Help me," and don't pay attention to who you help me with. Let me help you there and then. Oh, don't go around with compliments and fields like that one or this guy, and I would carry that, and I would help, and no, I wouldn't go and everything.
Line 249	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, and I think that someone was watching all these things that I was doing and all of them. One day I went to Boise and I went, I talked to some friends, Nury Peña, who was very nice. Rudy Peña, I was talking to him when in a little place that is a motel, that has a restaurant and a bar there, and we were having a drink talking about business when right here a man stopped.
Line 250	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Two yes sir, one sir and one ma'am.
Line 251	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Is it the same Rodriguez or me? Because yes, sir, your name, my name, that's what I've already stopped and interviewed, and that's all there is to it. The case came. He said we can't see him over there. It must be the papers or who knows where they brought them from. Another man said this this year.
Line 252	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Huh? You've come to pick up being the mouse.
Line 253	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The distributor.
Line 254	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: O. And I still didn't even understand it. That he loved me. And inside. And the ruby blonde knew he just lowered his head. Uh, uh, With my dad. Well, well, yes, I deserve it. It's fine. If not, then a little bad. No, no, I think he does deserve it and a little bit of everything. Everything you did. Look at how he is.
Line 255	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There are people who do that.
Line 256	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Okay, that's good. And now it's, huh. It was on YouTube, huh? Very nice additions, letters and everything from Washington, he says about the senators.
Line 257	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Because that's where I left the conversation.
Line 258	Patricia McDaniel: Speaking of receiving destiny. I wasn't with...
Line 259	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So.
Line 260	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, when all this happened, I accepted. It's okay.
Line 261	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The Frank church. The state senator. I mean, U.S., Senator.
Line 262	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: There are also many Mexicans getting in position the new position in the session. But in the hotel that we are not.
Line 263	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In and Washington, DC.
Line 264	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And comes.
Line 265	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: To a lot.
Line 266	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And that is what America stands for. You will all the way from the bottom to top or from top to bottom. America. America.
Line 267	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So, Yeah, that, to you call and you move your hand to the, the then Pueblo..., then my, you're the pueblo of you.
Line 268	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You send me the the, Canyon County chair. Dale Hill he bridge me and he came. They all came in person. They'll know that the whole thing. I'm around my chain.
Line 269	Patricia McDaniel: He is. Yeah. And they got all of the signs that were in the windows and start to disappear?
Line 270	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And disappear when the first day that they, they heard that the bill passed, it was there no.
Line 271	Patricia McDaniel: More. They were not.
Line 272	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They were I went up there, didn't check myself. They heard they was watching for that. And they they stripped it.
Line 273	Patricia McDaniel: Tell me about you. What age were your children? Well, all of this was going on.
Line 274	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, my,
Line 275	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Older was ten when when the bill passed on to it two years later, after to to give me their.
Line 276	Patricia McDaniel: How did they feel about?
Line 277	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, they feel.
Line 278	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They feel.
Line 279	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Towards me.
Line 280	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: At that time when they were little, they said.
Line 281	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Then you feel you got a lot of power with your. You know that the power is, is, it's everybody, everybody that help, including the bishop, all the fathers, all the men, everybody. There's. I just made I made the hat, man. You know, and because the news media was after.
Line 282	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Me all the time, you know.
Line 283	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And times.
Line 284	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: My and my faith was on the paper.
Line 285	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: On the paper and little things that I say and all that. And then they used to approach me about, how did I feel.
Line 286	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: About the Mexican children that, they're so, so, lack of,
Line 287	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Schooling, you know, and things like that. And then I give my, my $0.02 into that, you know, what was taking place at the time about, the Mexican people come over here from Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California to to work in Hawaii. And the same time they asked me why the Mexican people, so uneducated. I said, well, what you see here is what you.
Line 288	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You see on any in any town.
Line 289	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: On any big town, even United States in the skirt. And you see the poverty.
Line 290	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In any place in Texas, they, they have no white collar workers. The only thing I did coming over here or lawyers or doctors, they're nothing but a poor people that cannot even find jobs over there. For they had they.
Line 291	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Come here.
Line 292	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Looking for a job and that's all you see, you know, and this is my point. We have to educate these children equally with their wisdom. They have the chance to go to school and and and the the people, the teachers and, and the, state officials and all that. And they start. Listen.
Line 293	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, listen, we got a real, real pretty fair, you know, and, that we want more and more and more.
Line 294	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: My boy, my boy was, 19. I'm going to take that back. On August a 1962, almost 20.
Line 295	Patricia McDaniel: First, 20.
Line 296	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 20, because he worked he was.
Line 297	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Born 1940.
Line 298	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Two. I was thinking, you know.
Line 299	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I was talking I was thinking in 1952, not 19 since he was 20.
Line 300	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And you were so happy, so happy that this happened. She was 18. And she told me that.
Line 301	Patricia McDaniel: When she first came in, the the story was.
Line 302	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The story. See, I was all wrong right there. So I made a way to bring it back because there was 19, 59.
Line 303	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 20 when she told me that. 58.
Line 304	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 59 someplace along there. And then I took it from there. See.
Line 305	Patricia McDaniel: That's what started you was the story that did.
Line 306	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Done.
Line 307	Patricia McDaniel: Years before that you didn't realize.
Line 308	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I didn't realize because I was going to school. And, you know, all the work over here.
Line 309	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: As a barber
Line 310	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: and and then at night, I go, and I go in school, I keep going to school.
Line 311	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know?
Line 312	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So I didn't put no attention to. No, no, I didn't even go here to go there. I just my work over here and and the school.
Line 313	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Until one day.
Line 314	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I heard this. So I went out and checked myself right quick and all that. Well, I had.
Line 315	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: To know what they said. A lot of people called.
Line 316	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Guts, but it's no guts. You know, for me to do this, it's my right to do. And it's not good, you know? You know.
Line 317	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And so,
Line 318	Patricia McDaniel: Do you you you are considered in the Hispanic community, then today, a leader, you just stated the leader.
Line 319	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. I still get lots of calls from a lot of people.
Line 320	Patricia McDaniel: What I hear about you from a lot of people too.
Line 321	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And, so, I, I just cannot say anything about, else just to, A humble heart, you know, that trying to do something for for his his people. Yeah. You know.
Line 322	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The humble way, the most humble way can be, you know, no violence, no nothing. You know, just. And it did.
Line 323	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Work. Mine. I get to live to see it. Yeah. I go into the courthouse today. When? In those times when this happened with none.
Line 324	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No.
Line 325	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No secretaries, no police officers, no nothing. Only white people, see. And in order for us. Well, I keep saying to that my the sheriff, my my friend of mine says you have to have Hispanic in the force. At least one you have to show.
Line 326	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The, the the people, the Mexican people that the.
Line 327	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Ones that come out with the education. Mr. Secretary, you know.
Line 328	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: For the for the, in the courthouse.
Line 329	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Was in the courthouse all this coming weeks today, regardless where you go, you you see them? You.
Line 330	Patricia McDaniel: All. And that and that is, you know, that is what is so wonderful because then they act as role models.
Line 331	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes.
Line 332	Patricia McDaniel: For for other Hispanics.
Line 333	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Correct.
Line 334	Patricia McDaniel: And that's what you have been to.
Line 335	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. Yes. That's what I was I always I got clips in there someplace that I can so many.
Line 336	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Movements that we moved from here. You know what I'm saying.
Line 337	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We bought this house. You know, we don't know where it had. We was I was looking at for, for, you know, to show it to you. And the picture of the, distinguished citizen of the state of Idaho and all that is there. I run into that the other day.
Line 338	Patricia McDaniel: It's at your house?
Line 339	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. And so, Is one of those.
Line 340	Patricia McDaniel: This is Patricia McDaniel. Today is November 15th, 1991. I will be interviewing for the second time. I'm telling you, it was the biggest of names. Idaho.
Line 341	Patricia McDaniel: This is Patricia McDaniel. Today is November 15, 1991. I will be interviewing for the second time Antonio Rodriguez of Nampa, Idaho. This is Antonio Rodriguez, our second conversation. Today is November 15, 1991. We will attempt to have this part of the interview in English. All right, Mr. Rodriguez, the other day we had a conversation all about your living in Idaho and becoming very active in the civil rights movement here. Today we're going to concentrate a little bit on questions of your Hispanic history, your Hispanic heritage, and also culture and living in the community. I'll begin by asking, first of all, how do you define yourself? Do you define yourself as a Mexican, as a Mexican-American, as a Latino? How do you define yourself?
Line 342	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I always find myself Mexican-American, Mexican descent.
Line 343	Patricia McDaniel: Is this the same way that your parents identify themselves?
Line 344	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Exactly.
Line 345	Patricia McDaniel: They they identify themselves as Mexican Americans. And your children. How do they identify the same thing?
Line 346	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The same thing? Same.
Line 347	Patricia McDaniel: Has this identification or is this label, this identity that you have influenced you in how you have lived in this country or how accidentally.
Line 348	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You mean to become to think about Mexican American?
Line 349	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah. To be in. Oh, well, in this country.
Line 350	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Where it begins was way, way back. Way back from 19, 1927 that, there was so much, so much discrimination against Mexican people in Texas that, my daddy, all Mexican people cannot belong into, any city, like, city council or becoming, police deputy or nothing long. You're a Mexican. Yeah. So I was pretty, pretty young that I, even my myself because of Mexican, you know, because Mexican, can't do that, and Mexican can't do this, and Mexican can have this and all that.
Line 351	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So I consider. Okay, in, in our thinking, in our mind, is that okay? We're Mexicans. And what about, you know, so that's one of they grow. I said, well, if I am a Mexican, I am a Mexican American citizen, Mexican descent. That's what they want. And that's probably was where the beginning it say, is no other way for me to say that I am, Latino.
Line 352	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And if we call Mexico Latin America, I am a Latino, you know, but, like to today, you know, here recently they start with this Hispanic and Hispanic, you know. Well, I am Hispanic. History, I guess, and and very proud of it because, you know, I think we, all these little nations that I for, I mean, here and here, you know, like, Argentina and, Brazil and all the South Americas.
Line 353	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And they are all Spanish speaking. I think we can, I outnumber United States of America.
Line 354	Patricia McDaniel: But, I mean.
Line 355	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And all Spanish speaking. Yeah. You know, so that put us, right now in a pretty high category that we got a language we belong from, from, Hispanic descent. And we're very proud because we come in this world just like anybody else. Oh, excuse.
Line 356	Patricia McDaniel: Me, please tell me about when you said that. When you were young and living in Texas, you weren't able to. Or Mexican Americans were not able to participate in the civic government of the community. If they couldn't hold office, they couldn't be part of the police force. Tell me a little bit about how those limitations influenced you.
Line 357	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, starting with the school. See, we, the Mexican people, they have their own school, grammar school. And the white people had their own. The Negros have their own. So they all separate. And, and that's where they start that that, when I start learning about life, you know, I keep myself as an individual. I keep thinking, why is this?
Line 358	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, just when I was around eight, eight years, nine years, you know, before that we didn't put no attention about a little white kid. They used to come and play in our yard, and we play with him like we were brothers, you know? And, and sometime the, this, white people come home and all that seem like they don't like for the key to to get mixed up with us.
Line 359	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And they took him away. And when he put not the engine and so on, we grow up in, We always start learning more and more about a little bit about that. We have rights, but the, the, the law and that little official in that city when we were born, we can't see the Texas. They had the law and the, official they, they, they, they get, all these jobs, you know, they got some work control in and within this city, within the county that, Mexican person cannot, drive a tractor when it is on the city for the city or do anything, or if he wants to go, a boy wants to
Line 360	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: go to be a electrician. They do something to stop their kids. That's the way. What? You know, they don't want. No, no, no, Mexican descent people. Affiliate jobs where the whites was always taken. They don't want, in other words, let me say this. I went to I went to look for a job. I was 14 years old in a restaurant, and, it was during the depression.
Line 361	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And sometimes they pay us $0.50 a day, and, this, this man, he says I ask him for a garment of, Yeah, we go. Man. We used to go by Gomez, you know, over there, you know, and, yeah, I, I, you know, the Gomez good workers and all the restart, all that. He says, well, I give you $0.15 a day.
Line 362	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, he he $0.15 a day to wash the dishes and right. And then, well, I said, let me go see my father, you know, and I went and told my father and I said, no, we don't give you $0.50 a day at least not going to work. And I went, I told him, I went back and told him.
Line 363	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He said, well, Mexican people, he says they don't need their ma. They don't need they don't eat very much. They don't need no money, just a little bit, you know, just keep him alive. I remember that, and that will clear down to my heart and I that creating grudge against white.
Line 364	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 365	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Really? Really. And so, we went we continue school into a new school until we learn more about. Right. Hey, nobody according to one of the, the Constitution of America. You know, we we've got an equal rights.
Line 366	Patricia McDaniel: And you learn that in school.
Line 367	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In school.
Line 368	Patricia McDaniel: You in school. And it was all Mexican children in school. You were learning about the American education.
Line 369	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, and, you know, the the the teacher had, limitations to, you know, to teachers. And they didn't teachers. Exactly. Or, evaluate our, our work in the school as it should be if I, if I fail on on a little something, you know, they, they, they put the they fix they fix my papers if, if I done it right because they want me to to go.
Line 370	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They want to show someplace that these boys, they're really learning. Well, when they get up there and, and, on the eighth grade. Well, what did I have? Nothing. Nothing. And I won't have nothing to go high school. Right.
Line 371	Patricia McDaniel: When you say you had nothing at the eighth grade, does that mean that you didn't have some of the. You didn't have the ability?
Line 372	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I didn't have the ability because I didn't learn it. Right. You know.
Line 373	Patricia McDaniel: It wasn't talking. No.
Line 374	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No. The teachers, who were your teachers?
Line 375	Patricia McDaniel: Were they were they required everything, right.
Line 376	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, all we.
Line 377	Patricia McDaniel: And they limited what they taught you.
Line 378	Patricia McDaniel: So that you would be so that you would be limited. Yes.
Line 379	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I agree there was a limitation.
Line 380	Patricia McDaniel: How far did you go in school?
Line 381	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I went to seventh grade.
Line 382	Patricia McDaniel: What about girls, Mexican-American girls. What were they able to go to school.
Line 383	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah they, they were going to school too. But there was the same treatment for them. The same treatment. There was no there was a group of people there. It was a cruel bunch.
Line 384	Patricia McDaniel: You were talking the other day that you came to Idaho because somebody here told you that the life was better.
Line 385	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. Well, the people who invite us over here to to come and work in there, and the beats, the one he told me is tuning. You can make over there $5 a day, not $0.50 or a dollar a day, because it's a guaranteed job, you know, for certain period of time in the summer, all kinds of new jobs and all that.
Line 386	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That's the reason. And this is and they treat you better over there, treat you like a human.
Line 387	Patricia McDaniel: And when you you said the other day that when you came to Idaho, they did treat you. They did.
Line 388	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Very, very.
Line 389	Patricia McDaniel: Nice. You still find discrimination here. You talked about it a little bit.
Line 390	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well you can the only discrimination, that I found was that, you know, like I told you the other day on the 60s on about these signs and, and, beer, beer joints and, and barbershops and things like that, you know, and then they put this sign all this guy. No, no Mexican, no Negros, no Jews, no, no Indians, no dogs.
Line 391	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You you know, that's when we got mad. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a kind of discrimination. But, a lot of, Oh, my people used to call discrimination when they couldn't get, a job that they want. You know, it is today. If a man go and ask for a job at the police department, and and he don't have the schooling and the knowledge, you know, to even to filled up that that, application.
Line 392	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, he don't have no business there and some, they used to cry discrimination. And this is why I went to, to become a, pretty close, member of the within the police department there for quite a few years to learn what was going on. And there was no discrimination there. It was it that they didn't have the schooling, you know, how can a sixth grade man go and get an application and fill it up and, and, and, and then become a police officer, you know, so I started, I started going back and I was one of the man I, I stayed in the police department until I become the chairman
Line 393	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: of the committee, you know, the Civil Service Commission within the police department and, city council. Well, the city council will have to approve me, you know, when I first start and all that. Well, and then, I mean, we we put, applications all over, and I had some times in front of my desk.
Line 394	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 3 or 4, Mexican descent people. But when you get through the schooling, you just don't reach, see? And then there, because I was there and they called me, or they called me here in a room or their business is I it only how come I didn't make it? And then I explained they believe me, but they didn't believe a quite right.
Line 395	Patricia McDaniel: They were willing to what you tell them about their own education. But would it be possible that somebody would not be able to, qualify because of his education, because he didn't have the opportunity to be educated like you?
Line 396	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes.
Line 397	Patricia McDaniel: Well, have the opportunity to be educated.
Line 398	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And some of the people, they, they had an opportunity, but, but the job that they have to they, they're the only no to do, they have to go from a state to state or, well, there were no jobs. It's what they, you know, they have to work and go to school at those times. And it was impossible to have it right on their home, on the one place alone, you know, so they can go to school and work.
Line 399	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That was very hard for many, many, many. Like I said the other day, everybody that comes here to Idaho, we have they're starting as soon as 1935. We over here, you know, nobody come here to Idaho as a lawyer or doctor or you know, well, engineer or whatnot, only uneducated people can work. And people, including myself, you know, and that's what you'll find in Idaho.
Line 400	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And Idaho has been, has been, a real, what they call, sparkling star for us because, regardless of the of the struggles and, and, arguments and veils and this and that, you know, I can see and Mexican people, food good and high progress and, and the school and children learning.
Line 401	Patricia McDaniel: So good thinking Americans are putting a value education to their children. And do you do you feel that they realize that they believe that it is with education that their children will be able to.
Line 402	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Progress in advance? Oh yeah. I alertly and, you know, you know, I had, an article in the paper way up there, 1960 there. All I see is the schooling for my children, my my people I play I used to put it I one more opportunity for them. Let's find, way to educate those state from the state.
Line 403	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Go work in folks to see if we can reach them a little more. You know, and that's when they start. And then 1964, when, when the civil rights would become about. That's when they started, with over here, all the children that come through the camps and the folks come up to work, there was a place for them to, to go to school or they have on the, on the, in the camp something.
Line 404	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And they were they all weren't going to school, you know, like, first grade or second grade kids. They continue. They're not just losing their time for nothing. And that's why that same thing you can see at that time there was nobody, nobody Mexican girls and men, it's the secretaries all over like it is now, everywhere now.
Line 405	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And this is my dream. I go and visit those stores and I see the young girls and all that and, and I, I walk out of those places and real happy for them. They don't know that I've done that. They don't know me probably. But I go around and so on and that's.
Line 406	Patricia McDaniel: A good feeling. Let's talk a little bit about the customs that Mexican Americans have in you, and particularly with your family and the, the customs that your family handed down and that you still have what customs that you had, what customs were handed down to you by your family? Well, like with, say, religion, with the, traditions and holidays and.
Line 407	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, we have. Well, we always center with the little boy. My father say, I was, I lost my mama when I was five, and my father, he keep taking us to Catholic Church over in Port City every Sunday. It was five miles away.
Line 408	Patricia McDaniel: Was the Mexican American was here.
Line 409	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And. No, there was a there was segregated there, too. We go to the same church. The whites have to be on the right side. And that and the Mexican people on the left side, you cannot say for the whites was it was.
Line 410	Patricia McDaniel: With the priest was English speaking.
Line 411	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. And they have they have once in a while they had, a Mexican priest there, like, maybe help or the other father going to retreat or something, but he come and gave them mass and all that, you know, and, this Mexican father, he used to come for us. We never just say nothing to the white people.
Line 412	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But he says, look, he says, they they were on the right side. This is the white people don't know what is their rights. Right? And we ask the father why. He said, look, they're facing me on my left.
Line 413	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We just take it for fun and we laugh a little bit, you know, they say. But he used to tell us, don't use no grudge. Don't condemn their life to their doings. Love them. You know, that's not on the livestream. I mean, if he's in the restroom. No, no, no. We, No. Three. Now. Come on.
Line 414	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Where are you to learn the the, catechism. The catechism and all that? Yeah, all Mexican people, boys and girls. And he used to. That's one that father, Mexican father used to come over and he said, you're doing the job that God wants you to do. They want to do it different. Let him do it. But don't hate them.
Line 415	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Don't these and do. That's when I started. I was already about 15. That's what I start saying. Well, who am I to hate who you know, and I didn't, we, we got break up on that Myanmar. So we love we love white, we love black. We love anybody, you know, because we they explain to us there is you are.
Line 416	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Nobody really will. Oh, God. You can got no business here. So you here and got business because of him. And you know that way he he was real good.
Line 417	Patricia McDaniel: So that Catholic tradition was very strong.
Line 418	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes it still is. Still is in that place I went last year, I went to a family reunion and it was a big wedding and my cut one of my cousins who still is. Yeah. Very strong. We love it.
Line 419	Patricia McDaniel: And your children are and your children have stayed in the church.
Line 420	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh yes. All of the traditions in the past.
Line 421	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. All of them.
Line 422	Patricia McDaniel: Are there, are there are Mexican American customs in, in your Catholicism that you recognize that aren't done in the white, Catholic Church? In other words, are there holidays or cousins or. It's differences in holidays like, Dia Doce de Deciembre, or Guadalupe.
Line 423	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Correctly.
Line 424	Patricia McDaniel: Recognized that. Yeah, I know that in the, Anglo, the white Catholic church.
Line 425	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They don't do that. Right.
Line 426	Patricia McDaniel: But are those kinds of.
Line 427	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, yes. Every year, every year we have a big doing here in the Church of Saint Paul. And we, Sometimes we get out five o'clock in the morning and we'll go and shop over there. And we'll take a lot of flowers and phone and we send a las mayanitas to her and it's on. And sometimes when I used to have mariachis over here, we take the mariachis to the church and five o'clock in the morning with that beautiful song. I mean, music, you know, cantando la mayanita.
Line 428	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, in his town. And sometimes when I, I used to have, mariachis over here, we take the mariachi to the church. And at 5:00 in the morning with that beautiful song, I mean, music.
Line 429	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, ...
Line 430	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You need that a week for everybody happy?
Line 431	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah, yeah. What are the holidays that are celebrated by the by, you know, Mexican Americans that aren't celebrated? Well,
Line 432	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We we celebrate, Cinco de Mayo and then... todo via, it goes strong, very, very strong.
Line 433	Patricia McDaniel: And that's an that's a holiday here in Nampa and Caldwell.
Line 434	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, in Caldwell, in, the Sies of Septiembre, here in Nampa. My boy has been in charge of that and been making in Boise because of the college. Yeah. You know.
Line 435	Patricia McDaniel: And that's also the Fiesta. That's tomorrow.
Line 436	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah. And Boise, that's why, that's why. And, they have the mariachis. I don't know if you want this last year and I was in I had to go to.
Line 437	Patricia McDaniel: A conference in Florida that weekend.
Line 438	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I think. Yeah.
Line 439	Patricia McDaniel: And I didn't get one last year. I went.
Line 440	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Okay, well, see, they, they it was so beautiful that the even the, the, one of the main guys from Seattle, he came over because of the image, organization and he he makes speech, beautiful speech, you know, and he says that this is the first time that he ever seen. So many Hispanic people acting better, than us.
Line 441	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He says. We will listen, you know, we we we are very, very interested to listen what everybody's saying, you know, without turning the face and start talking with somebody else and, and that man just, smoke in his head, you know, and nobody listen. We always listen. And and it was packed. It was packed.
Line 442	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Rudy Pena, he made a speech there, too, and and so on. But there was real, real beautiful.
Line 443	Patricia McDaniel: So you feel that the cultural identity of the, of the Mexican American is very strong, and recognized in his holiday.
Line 444	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah. Yes, yes. Very. We got we got very good. Young leaders coming up. You know, they're getting, they got. Well-educated and, and they coming out with with the good, with, work. You know, on that line like, schooling and tradition, culture and things like that. And, you know.
Line 445	Patricia McDaniel: How did you pass on to your own children their sense of identity and their cultures?
Line 446	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In it together with me. And I was pretty close to them. See, I was right here when they were growing right here. And Marvin and and, had the restaurant at the same time, but what I did was that we was closing two days a week at that time, the business. And every moment, every second that I can, I pass.
Line 447	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: It was my children, you know, and I always in the evening we sit down around when I take him out to McCall. Idaho City, you know, and we, we stay overnight and we put fire. And I always was after them on, on our way of life, marry my wife. And it was so poor. We were so poor that I didn't put no shoes in my feet until I was 16 years old.
Line 448	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I go to kill a rattlesnake with my bottom of my feet with that. But,
Line 449	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well. And then here I was with my family, my three, my three children and my wife, and around the fire. And then. Because of, the, I heard. Oh, here and there, you know, that, there was, there was a discrimination in certain certain place and all that. I keep saying to my children, there's nobody have no rights to discriminate, nobody but the children.
Line 450	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I used to say all things like that when I when I was young, I told him how I was going to grow up. And we always put those things aside and behind us. And you, you have more opportunity today. All three of you, that to go to school and learn your, your rights and fight for your rights with in the law.
Line 451	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Don't take the law in your hands within the law. And then, I keep on and on, you know, come down.
Line 452	Patricia McDaniel: I'm going to turn the tape over...
Line 453	Patricia McDaniel: All right. Go ahead.
Line 454	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, I used to to tell them about, me a little bit about Jesus. I bring a few times. A few times to them. I said, remember, we was born and raised in Karnes City, Texas. Mary was born in Hebbronville, Texas. We are about 2000 miles away from where we were born, a way to better ourselves on the job.
Line 455	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And this it. And this is not wrong at all, because Jesus. The mother and and, and, Joseph heard this angel tell him to go to Angel to save the children's lives. Well, if he can feed down that wind someplace and to stay for a long time over there before we. That we can't come here and stay for a while forever.
Line 456	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: He gave us that. For example, I said, yes, Jesus. And, And I put it to them the best way I could, for them to, to rely in. And God and Jesus is when they need help, you know, just ask him. He'll give you give it to you by asking. And they went on and they, they got so many questions for me, especially the older girl.
Line 457	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: She was almost seven years older than the other two. And, I answer the best way I can, always, for the good of of, of the future life. You know, I never did. I never did bring anything to them about grudge or mad or anything. You know, about nothing. My my children. Of course, right now they're the oldest.
Line 458	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: She's going to be 50 here pretty soon. And junior is 41, going to be 42. And my. She's 39. And, that they can say that I never I always hide myself if I going to say a word like, cuss word like like, oh, goddamn it or something like that. I never I try not to be in front of them, ever.
Line 459	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know? I don't want them to know me that way. You know that I, I, I look at them, they come in, you know, I respect them because I feel in my own heart that if I don't respect that child, that child won't have no respect to me. I, you know, and I cannot give an advice, and hold, you know, so I use my hand pretty much in embracing my children because my daddy was was one of them, too.
Line 460	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And he was pretty, pretty strict with us, by getting, ourselves in trouble and all that, he was pretty close to us. Know, he always said, with us, and he says, look, Antonio or Santos, these these these the, you know, things that happen when he's on his young life, he bring it up to us.
Line 461	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Whatever happened, you know, by doing wrong. And you explain it to us. And this is why you do that, you know?
Line 462	Patricia McDaniel: Do you do you feel that the that the idea of mutual respect you for your children and your children, for you is stronger in the Mexican culture than it is in the.
Line 463	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: 98%, 98%. I think my Mexican culture, any time. Oh, yes. Yeah. You know, and in the, in the white culture is too much of of miss respect the children don't respect the fathers. If they respect it, they respect it because they got a bunch of money from them for a little while. They run out of money.
Line 464	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They go back to father and start, all over again. I don't say, all of them, but, full body, high percentage.
Line 465	Patricia McDaniel: But there is. But they respect the high level of respect for parents, for their children and children, for their parents is stronger in Mexico.
Line 466	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, yes. Yes, I can say that here. I can see it in the white House. Yes.
Line 467	Patricia McDaniel: Do you feel that the family structure is stronger in the Mexican. Yes.
Line 468	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes yes, yes. It's not so much. Liberty. The, the like Mexican mothers, they stick with their kids and
Line 469	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Teaching them the, the and growing by the years and trying to get him away from troubles and all this I say that percentage they're careless, you know, and they, they they they do the same thing, you know, like, Anglos, their own tradition with a kid, with kids, you know, they don't they just don't care. I seem like that kid comes in and says that I want him money.
Line 470	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I ain't got no. Oh, I want money. You know, that kid won't won't stop and ask him no more. He wants that money. No explanation, no nothing, you see, because the kid goes, ha! Where he goes can get trouble. Okay. And then. And the father, mother, the Anglo father, my monthly, the highest percentage is they got job, they got money and all that to get together with that kid we take him for.
Line 471	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And they belong for them to take that kid and break. He's thinking about getting wild. Yeah. And and go and get drunk and. And what happened? They call him that? He got killed on the road, that that car rolled up and all that. Well, this be coming on the Mexican, American. The same thing.
Line 472	Patricia McDaniel: That was going to be. Yes. Happened to the Mexican American?
Line 473	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes. Because of the miserable dope. Every one that that they get in trouble and wrecks and all this. And that is either an alcohol or a dope relate, you know, that is not their tradition that they, they, they come from is that they learned in the schools, in the schools, and not Mexican tradition either. You know, see, so they learn to be wild.
Line 474	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They learn to be free from the father, the father and mother. They don't have no dual restriction whatsoever. You know, if, the father, like he used to when I, when I grow up, my father said, see this whip? I never want to use it on you. Just don't never disobey me. Never disobey me. And I will never use it.
Line 475	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Disobey him one time. And I have curse right here. I run away from him, and he had the whip in his hand, and. And he goes like this, you know, to.
Line 476	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Me.
Line 477	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, to to to what my and, the the point of that we hit me in and went through my clothes and skin, you know, and I stopped very quick. And that was the only time in life that he'd done that close. I he used to tell us, he said, don't this obey me and anything because I don't want to do something I ran away from I was because I was young, 13 years old.
Line 478	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: But that was old enough to understand better. I did after that to know.
Line 479	Patricia McDaniel: Enough not to do it again.
Line 480	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes.
Line 481	Patricia McDaniel: And that is, you know, that is, good. I it just my own sense tells me that that's very strong Hispanic cultural, thing to be very close to the family. You, you know, disrespect. And then of course, the, the, the obedience comes from that respect for the correct.
Line 482	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yes.
Line 483	Patricia McDaniel: But it, it, you feel that it's eroding as the, as the Mexican-American child becomes more American. Yes. More and your more like more of the Anglo.
Line 484	Patricia McDaniel: Ways of doing that. Can you recall some of this talk just a little bit about cultural events here in Idaho. Can you recall some of the very early Mexican cultural events that happened here in Idaho the other day? You were talking about the little town that you came to live in when you first moved here.
Line 485	Patricia McDaniel: What was the name of that?
Line 486	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Aberdeen.
Line 487	Patricia McDaniel: Aberdeen. Were there any Mexican American cultural events there in Aberdeen? No.
Line 488	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: No, I think, when we got there, there was only about three families, you know, in there. And, And the job is, is so, so much when we got up there, we got a big bunch of people, and then some other. We didn't even know each other because they live on the ranches and everybody's working every day.
Line 489	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Long hours. You know, we never come to town or get together. And like you said, when I go, like, on the 16th, or Cinco de Mayo or, oh, 16 of September, we just let that go because we were nobody. We didn't have no backbone there, like we say and leaders to say, hey, we want to get together, we want to do this.
Line 490	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We want to try to do this. You know.
Line 491	Patricia McDaniel: Nothing ever.
Line 492	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Did not enough with.
Line 493	Patricia McDaniel: That start. Did it ever happen in Aberdeen? Did you ever have that in everything? I ready to come to America.
Line 494	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And no, I don't, I don't remember because the last time I was in Aberdeen that, just before I, when I come out of the service in 1946, I went back 1947 for, for one of these, I think was Cinco de Mayo a couple of days and all that was nothing moving, just, a dog by that time, the the, the Mercado family and the other one Paz, the last name Paz.
Line 495	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And these Penas..., you know, they were living there. All they get together and they had little tamales and they have just an house on the porch someplace, you know, and and they they drink little beer and, and eat tamales. And the kids play ball over there in the front yard and all that. But there was no, like a public, doing thing.
Line 496	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: It was. No.
Line 497	Patricia McDaniel: There's a there's a lot of that here in Nampa and in Caldwell. When did it start and who started it?
Line 498	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, I started did you. Yeah.
Line 499	Patricia McDaniel: Tell me about the first time you organized the cultural. Oh. And was it what what holiday was it?
Line 500	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: That was, 19, 1957. I start Getting together the the the labor camps, you know, to celebrate.
Line 501	Patricia McDaniel: What holiday?
Line 502	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The 16 of September, 16 of September. What I did here, I was working for the employment, not for the employment office. I worked for employment for five years. They put a sign over there. I got the pictures where there was a branch from the I from the, employment office in Nampa. I was working as a barber and farmers, they called me, and they put the application for so many men that they went me and I had them over here all the time looking.
Line 503	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And when they knew that I get jobs over here, you know, they they would come in. And, since I see so many, you know, they come in the summer, as I said, you know, these people, they, they I don't have some telling, you know, like the dancing girls and, musicians and and all kinds, you know.
Line 504	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know. I sat down and, I kind of put names. Caldwell, Nyssa, Ontario, Weiser, Caldwell, Nampa, Homedale and then, here on 12 Avenue labor camp. They used to be. And then, Franklin labor camp came all those little camps. And I don't remember if I went to I think I did, Homedale or Mountain Home and I want one man or two out of each camp to meet here or any more, any place, for it is more centralized place.
Line 505	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, they all came over here. And of course, I had the business and and I put up some beer, you know, and Mexican,
Line 506	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Way of getting.
Line 507	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Together had to be beer. And then, I, I got up and I told them that I had an idea. Maybe, maybe we can get together and do a big, big fiesta, you know, and right now, everybody agreed. See that? Because at that time, I was going to school and I was learning. I said to to all these people, I said, listen, it's very, very easy to hear something like this and say, yes, then get up and do it later, you know, and very easy.
Line 508	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So if you don't think that, then you cannot do it or something. You think you're going to be in front of you. You can't go over. They know they can't get eight now. Don't say it later because he I going to put a hole in people's name. And what are you going to do in your camp. It's your business.
Line 509	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You want to make a float and you're going to have a little, dancing boys or or singing or whatever. That's years. But when they're ready, I want to go to the other and the other and the other and going to be some but amuse, you know, some gifts for all this, you know, and I had I had the the sugar company mug made it to the company in our favor.
Line 510	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In fact, that she put some money. She put some money for some boys. We had, I can't remember so many outfits. The evening call, it says to me, we like to get in there if my name going to be there somehow. Oh, yes. Say your name will be there if you contribute. And we done it. So beautiful.
Line 511	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: We dressed some of the girls that didn't have no money to, to to, to build dresses for the girls and, you know, and, and from all over, you know, the women, Mexican woman, they come and said, hey, I can make the best, the best, Chinas Poblanas dress. And I am a...
Line 512	Patricia McDaniel: Seamstress.
Line 513	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Seamstress.
Line 514	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And, of course, to there, you know.
Line 515	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: This year it all comes up upon her together.
Line 516	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You know, I go, oh, it's to where? Como? ...
Line 517	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: ... I went down to the city mayor and I asked him, what did I, I was wishing to do on this particular day? We prepare we like to have, a chance to present our Mexican culture within this, parade that we, we want to bring through town.
Line 518	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we went all that, he you talking about people was the first time.
Line 519	Patricia McDaniel: Did everybody come?
Line 520	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, everybody. Everybody of them. Plus and. Well, and, we have that, Parade. And then the fiesta. We made it. We make it over there, and the old, There used to be the series Drew box and Kahlua, and then they had a, Safeway store, and there was a big, big space in between. There was nothing but parking.
Line 521	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So. We, we have people selling. Oh, come all this time. Because you know what? Little stands over there and the big space for dance and, when we got through around, oh, about an hour and a half, probably, more or less, you know, the parade went through, and then we all got together again, the leaders, you know, and he said, let's let's get these these, floats up there and we put them all and everyplace we can around the on this place for this, dance and everything on.
Line 522	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Okay. And that you could see him and, the stage everybody have, you know, the, the Anglo.
Line 523	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: People there.
Line 524	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Was eager to help, you know, they were there and, and they asking us to say, hey, you need if you need my tray, I got a trailer with a flatbed and and I got these and that, you know, beautiful, beautiful. Well, okay, so I was in one of the programs. I was, I kind of, or sort of a clownish guy, you know, it's a little way I supposed to be the first one to cheer the people.
Line 525	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I did, too. The girl was was there, was helping me. She was real good. She was a professional, you know, and, nobody knew me until I took all these things that I had on me. You know? Well, anyway, to then start the next day, the the the news media called me. They, they went out there and I didn't know.
Line 526	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And they took all kinds of pictures, all kinds of pictures, you know, and then they, they they reached me and they told me that there was little over 7000 people gathered in that.
Line 527	Patricia McDaniel: And this was the first one first.
Line 528	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And we continue, I done it for five years. See, until after five years, you know, my business was growing so big, you know, that I, I knew I was neglecting it, and I did, but it come one guy from California... Raul Ramos. He was. He was with the employment office, too, over there.
Line 529	Patricia McDaniel: In California.
Line 530	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: In California, I think it was in Sacramento, you know, and that to to help me. And I said, I don't I don't think, I want to be able to, to, to do anything except give you an advice here and there. I said, I want you to take over. You know, he got together and the first one, he made it almost identical to this.
Line 531	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And I was very, very pleased. But, the second year, you know, something went wrong. Something is wrong that the people don't want to cooperate with him. You know, they come to him here and they say, we want you to. And then they went, A little sour. And then the third year.
Line 532	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The third year, there was another man on here who labor camp wants to he he got it. He done real good. He done real good too. But he die on us. He went back to Eagle Pass and and, we've got a phone call. I got a phone call that he had done with. Yes. That this man died in a heart attack.
Line 533	Patricia McDaniel: But that holiday was was started by, you know, the safety, started by you and then, you know, and after five years in here.
Line 534	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Right. Yes.
Line 535	Patricia McDaniel: Well, Tony, tell me something. We don't have very much tape left. So let's go finish. Tell me, what do you feel about how the future will be for the Mexican-American here in Idaho? What does the future hold? I will clean.
Line 536	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I say that it's a good it's a good, trail for the Mexican-American in Idaho, Oregon and, in the state surrounding Washington. Because, like I say, the schooling and, and the majority of the of the, of the Mexican people, you know, work, don't scare them. I hear this from, from my Anglo bosses all the time.
Line 537	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They get, to work, and they'll stay. They stay working. They don't cry so much. If they get paid $0.50 less than the others, they just stay there until one day. Well, with good opportunities, they come out and say, ask you after 4 or 5 years, probably for a raise, you know, they're entitled to a little raise or something like that.
Line 538	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And, but, fired is, jobs even today, right now, even the, the uneducated, just long as they know English, they're good jobs that, that the Anglos don't like it. They go and get it. See. So I say with education, it'd be more or less more opportunity. There will be no no lack in the future. More.
Line 539	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: More chances for the white and for the Mexican descent. No. Because, I seen it in the schools, and I see it all over the, Mexicans and Anglos in the state of Idaho. They're putting words together.
Line 540	Patricia McDaniel: Do you think that the Mexican culture will, or the Mexican American people will be able to hold their culture together?
Line 541	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Oh, yes. Yes.
Line 542	Patricia McDaniel: It won't get lost in the Anglo.
Line 543	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, it get lost. If, Well, I can say, it can get lost. Like, for instance, I'm here today, and my my kids, they're being here tomorrow. You know what? I'm what I mean, within 25, 30 years, my kids, well, they don't know as much as I do my own kids I do about my culture, their kids.
Line 544	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: They ain't going to know almost nothing. So that's going to be staying behind unless they somebody come in from the South with all this knowledge about the culture and practices here in the state, right. See, or in any place.
Line 545	Patricia McDaniel: So in other words, the culture will remain alive. There's always somebody who is very new to the culture or, or brings the culture with them and renews it.
Line 546	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah, well it's happening. It's happening today. They're bringing it up, you know, like you take, like these, Johnny Canales. He, he brings those beautiful music musicians, you know, to, to show it to the Mexican people over here. And if, if you ever have, a chance to talk to this, Gilberto Flores, the guy who owns, the multipurpose, what they call.
Line 547	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Those skilled workers.
Line 548	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: You go there one night, I maybe I can give you a, I'll give him a talk and tell him in the let you go in, because every time he charge, it's going to be about from 15 to $25. Because he brings he brings the music that place around, around Veronica Castro, you know, on that show that she she saw that she got.
Line 549	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Well, those musicians is the one he brings here.
Line 550	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: So they cost.
Line 551	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: A lot of money. And the people over here want it. You know, one time and two days, I sold, $1,600 that, you know, tickets for him to flourish.
Line 552	Patricia McDaniel: He's the... Flores?
Line 553	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: See, and, if you go there and you see.
Line 554	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: The multitude of people.
Line 555	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And the way they dance, their cumbias and things like that, you know, sometimes you get a terrible time to get in it. So Pat.
Line 556	Patricia McDaniel: You prepared. Yeah. Well I was looking for that. Thank you so much. It has really been a delight to have you talk and to listen to,
Line 557	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: It's too many other things to talk about.
Line 558	Patricia McDaniel: You know, through the, the I it's great time to cap Del.
Line 559	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Rey when I see Como you Tengo también...
Line 560	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: ... become, well known man in the state of Idaho. You know, today I got, I am appointed 16 years ago by the governor on the Judicial Administrative Commission, you know, for your, I think I said that before and, of course, I belong on this and that and that and that, all the way to become an officer.
Line 561	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Always the people they. Yes. Nominate me for, for that position. And, this is what I, I like to, to pass it on to. And some of the kids that go to start school, you know, that I consider me I didn't know nothing. But when I really get into the office in this terrible reading and finding out, you can develop that, you can work it out the best way you can.
Line 562	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: And the first way you, you, you work it. The people around like it. They like.
Line 563	Patricia McDaniel: You.
Line 564	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Because they like to put you in. They said, well, Mr. Rodriguez, what you think that this is. And then I analyze, I think I yeah. You right or whatever, you know, you will fix it for them but they don't. Then after that, because you, you really want that job. They don't want you out of there. Then next year comes and now you oh they want you again.
Line 565	Patricia McDaniel: You've become indispensable.
Line 566	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: Yeah. On any place I go, I in some one place I had to resign.
Line 567	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: From employment office.
Line 568	Patricia McDaniel: Thank you so much.
Line 569	Antonio (Tony) Hernandez Rodriguez: I, I couldn't hold.

Rosales, Epigmenio J.

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Line 1	Angela Luckey: The following is an interview with Epigmenio J. Rosales by Angela Luckey. The interview took place in Mr. Rosales home, 251 Washington Avenue, Pocatello, Idaho. On May 23rd, 1991. This interview is part of the Idaho Hispanic Oral History Project. We will be talking about when your family first came to this country.
Line 2	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And we first came to this country. That was in, around 1918. Yeah. Somewhere in April. Sometime in April. My dad, he had been here before, a year before. And then he went back and decided to come and live over here, bring the family down this way. I don't think there was a revolution down there at that time.
Line 3	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I think he was a little bit by that time. I think. But, there were still robbers around, you know, and, we we traveled, down come coming this way back to. And we traveled down this way and,
Line 4	Epigmenio J. Rosales: By horse and horseback. My mother had a horse. And carrying my little brother, he was in a five, eight, nine year, nine months old, maybe nine months. And I was with my dad, and he's with him on the horse. And there was another family with us, you know, friends of the family.
Line 5	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Because my dad and him had been here before, you know, so they decided to go back and bring the family, the family down here.
Line 6	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So I don't know how far we traveled by horseback, you know, because because, you know, from Zacatecas, Santa Ramon, where I was born. There's a long ways to come over here. So there must have been a train when we somewhere. I don't know how far it was from where we lived, but I remember getting on a train.
Line 7	Angela Luckey: How old were you?
Line 8	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Me? How old I was, I was about four, four years and maybe seven when I was born on October 28th, 1912. So I was about going on five. Anyway.
Line 9	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I remember seeing a little light from the train, you know, but then we come down to El Paso. And there was, there was, a lady there. She was here in the houses there, and we were in my dad rented one of the house or one of her houses, and we stayed there. I don't know how long. Maybe temporary.
Line 10	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then my dad and, these other friend, the other family, they got, hired on a railroad track who were working for the, extra again. And they allowed, they allowed, families on these extra again, I guess, because they were short of help at that time. So I don't know how long he worked on the railroad.
Line 11	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then extra again. There was two family families on each side of the boxcar leaving together.
Line 12	Angela Luckey: But they lived in the boxcar?
Line 13	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Ya boxcars on the railroad. And these extra getting. And there was a lot of, you know, two families on one side and two on the other side. And you would shared that one still on each side. This family on the other side got one stove and we had a stove over here, two of us, we shared the change to the cook.
Line 14	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then from there. I think my dad decided to come to, New Mexico because we had an uncle on my mother's side living in Santa Rita. And we will make. And, that's where we was headed toward down that way. And then before. Before we got over there, we, stopped and, Largent I don't know where.
Line 15	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, anyway, we stopped in, Wylie to think be to my dad when, you know, work on the way down.
Line 16	Angela Luckey: In New Mexico.
Line 17	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In New Mexico. So we started, getting closer to where my uncle lived, my, my dad, he got a job cleaning beach. And this. You know, Wylie, I think it was a town where we lived. And then from there, after the thinning, the agriculture, you know, in the summertime, we went to Santa Rita.
Line 18	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then from there, my uncle had a big house. I mean, he had upstairs in a dumpster. So we stayed on the downstairs, and my dad worked there for. I don't know how long. Maybe a year, maybe two. I don't remember.
Line 19	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, my dad, he decided to go closer to Colorado. So. During that time, in the wintertime, there's a lot of sickness there, you know, a lot of people getting sick, and they quarantined the houses. And he couldn't visit nobody. Nobody at that time, I don't know, it wasn't as influential or something this contagious. They didn't, a lot of new people to visit when somebody was sick, you know.
Line 20	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But, anyway, my dad, we were there with my other uncle. I don't know what kind of work they had done there, but they had a job and. And we stayed there one winter, maybe two, I don't know. And then my dad decided to come closer, you know, down to Colorado, Colorado. So we shot up and, we in Colorado, I don't know if it was Lamar at Lamar or I think that's in Lamar was in Colorado.
Line 21	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I'm not sure where we up there. For the winter. Oh his in which, you know, he was working or some kind of a job. He got a job there somewhere. And,
Line 22	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And we stayed there one winter in Colorado. And to Lamar, I think it was Lamar. Colorado. Must have in Colorado.
Line 23	Angela Luckey: But what year was that?
Line 24	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's what I was wondering. It was an, maybe 19 or 20, 19, 20, something like that. I don't know.
Line 25	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, there in Lamar there was even a colonial grand there, you know, a lot of Mexican people just to stay there in the wintertime were big colonial era people. And there wouldn't. But one morning we got up. It was snowing all the time. You know, when we got over there.
Line 26	Epigmenio J. Rosales: After the work was done, we moved over there to the Colonia. We had a bunch, mucho hente, Mexican people there. And they had, all the way from the Colonia, they had pigs and chickens, raising chickens and pigs. The big dump was a little ways further.
Line 27	Angela Luckey: Did those animals belong to the people of the Colonia?
Line 28	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. They brought their own.
Line 29	Angela Luckey: They brought their own?
Line 30	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, they raised them. You know, they worked on the wheat fields and that the they they had chickens and they the reason has pigs to.
Line 31	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We didn't have nothing like that. So anyway, one morning we woke up and, the house the house was,
Line 32	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Good was, the final, you know, there was no was way over the roof was a door washed blood with just you. We couldn't open the door. And, My God, I don't know how you could, maybe pull the door, open this inside, pull it open, and never let us know we could get out. It was, well, you know, so we we we had to shovel the way out there so we could go out.
Line 33	Epigmenio J. Rosales: It would let us know that the Air Force, the wind. Mr.. The wind blew it over, you know. You know, went to school. There were, maybe two months. I don't know how long.
Line 34	Angela Luckey: What was that? And mean?
Line 35	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, no, I haven't got to that yet.
Line 36	Angela Luckey: Oh, okay.
Line 37	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No. We went, I went to school there maybe 2 or 3 months.
Line 38	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In school with that one.
Line 39	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah. And the colonia, they, I don't know, the government or somebody sent one, teacher to help the school people speak English.
Line 40	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But that was about 8 or 9, I guess, maybe going I nine.
Line 41	Angela Luckey: He hadn't been to school yet.
Line 42	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no, no. Moving around. Yeah. Moving around. And then from there, there was another family. They wanted to go to Pueblo, Colorado. So my does very well. That's what I want to go I see I want to go down that way. So you see what it is like. So this man, he said, well, I have relations over there.
Line 43	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, and we'll find a place for you or you can stay there. So this family and my dad, you know, and we went over there to, I don't know, we went by train, I guess the pueblo. And there.
Line 44	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Never got there and,
Line 45	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I didn't know how to speak English and my and I, there was, there was a school at that time that my, there was, girl living, a neighbor, a girl that was going to school there. She was about 12 or 20, and she, she spoke English. You know, my mother always call me by manual all the time, manual and manual programing that they,
Line 46	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So I stayed by that name. Manuel. But my real name is Epigmenio.
Line 47	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know why they gave me that name. For those who want to call me Manuel. So when these girls took me to school, you know, she, they asked her what was his name here. Manual. So I've been manual ever since. I went through and I put me in a different world, playing with glue and drawing pictures.
Line 48	Angela Luckey: When you were 8 or 9, you nine.
Line 49	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I was about nine years old and so it must have been 1920 or 2021, maybe 21. And then, this, school was a mini school. And there was also a mini college. They call it the mini clinic. There was one, but not too far away. They call it the same medical lake. Lake and the mini school. So that's where I went the first year.
Line 50	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Then my dad decided to move closer to town. We lived in a larger, Mexican people there.
Line 51	Angela Luckey: It was the following.
Line 52	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Notice the pueblo and pueblo. Yeah, that's a city. That's, Yeah. He, that's what we call it. La guerra. And there was another. Another place, they called it all salau the Mexican people and Salado. And we lived on a little Mexican people there.
Line 53	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So my dad decided to move closer to town, but everybody mixed around there. And made.
Line 54	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, he got a job there, and they're still works working there.
Line 55	Angela Luckey: What did he do?
Line 56	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know, he still works. I don't know, he was working in, wire mill. They called it the wire making wire or something. I don't know. So we stayed there, and I went to, the other school. When we moved closer, there was another school down that we. We went to this place, Bessemer Bessemer School. And the town was also called Bessemer.
Line 57	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Bessemer. And, the school was Bessemer School.
Line 58	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So I went to school there about five, six years. And I had troubles with the teacher because I couldn't speak English. You tried to learn, so I didn't learn very much. And besides, they were crowded. The school rooms were crowded. They had to put two classes in one room. And then even if you didn't have a good grades, are you still going just to show them up to another grade?
Line 59	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, after all, even if you didn't. Even if you didn't,
Line 60	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Even if you were not qualified to go to another room, they still would put you in another grade higher. So I didn't have much. And then I went to school there, but 5 or 6 years, I guess.
Line 61	Angela Luckey: At Bessemer..
Line 62	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Bessemer.
Line 63	Epigmenio J. Rosales: School, that was in one.
Line 64	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In Pueblo, Colorado.
Line 65	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And there I mean, yeah, it was a wonderful time in the Italian gringos and, mixture of mixed, you know, those people, Italians and Jews and, I don't know what they call them. Yeah. They had their own barrio up there. We lived on one side of the. Were you in the summer? School was right here. And we all we lived over here and the water was, where it was on this other side in the school.
Line 66	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Business school was here, but but their school was over here somewhere. Over here.
Line 67	Angela Luckey: Yeah. A separate school for the Mexican kids.
Line 68	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, it was all people really. The only, the only that were really Italian. They were all they were, they had their own school but there were still Mexican people and the.
Line 69	Angela Luckey: Mexican food.
Line 70	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And Mexican stew, but the of it was, more Italian was like gives you like a real fellow. They had their own barrios.
Line 71	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, so now only in the garage. I had a friend, that I used to be. Well, we were in the same room in the medical school. It was. That was before we move to Barcelona. And, and, they used to have roosters like, you know, put their locks on there. Yeah. On Sundays, they used to have a lot of guys who put on bed.
Line 72	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And those roosters like some. One day, my friend and I, we were playing marbles, I guess not too far away from them. And then, some shooting around there. Somebody was shooting somebody, and he was. And it happened to be his father, his dad.
Line 73	Epigmenio J. Rosales: My friends Dad, the the other guy shot him, and that was the end of him. Oh, that was bad. And anyway, we moved from there to Bessemer. And then when I went about a year back.
Line 74	Epigmenio J. Rosales: After a year in school in Bessemer, you know, we decided to move this other way. There was a railroad here. And then this summer school was here. And then we cross the railroad overpass on the same street, and we moved over here is a little hill, the Italian,What you call it? What did I call it? Italian neighborhood. The Barrio de los Italians.
Line 75	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I had to go this way, and I had to go over the railroad overpass and then go straight to school. And these guys, we are... The Italian town is just standing around. You young kids, you know, going to school. One time there was about four, maybe six guys just visiting each other.
Line 76	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And when I passed by there, by them, you know, one of those guys grabbed me, put my arms behind me, and had one of those little guys smarter than me, just working me over. He was really pounding the heck out of me, you know. So next time I say, boy, I'm going to go around the other way. I'm not going through here no more, so I didn't.
Line 77	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So the next time I said, well I don't want to go around the other way, I'm gonna go through here. No more trouble. I didn't know there was another street over here. I had to go this way or this one. Then go to the way, the wrong way to school.
Line 78	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So that was the end. I didn't go to learn to walk.
Line 79	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There in school there was a... Bigger kids, you know, they used to play ball, what they call it?, those big balls. Not not baseball, softball, softball. I guess that's what it was. Softball that bigger around a little bit bigger area. Italian. Right. And then they used to go to school there.
Line 80	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And there's the one guy that they call you name was, they call him Tony Sirico. He was one of the main players there in school. One of the best. But, anyway, I was about maybe 12 years old at that time. Maybe 12, 11 or 12. And then, From then, one time. He was in the higher grade.
Line 81	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He was ready to go to high school. I guess he was bigger. There's to be because he was bigger, you know, taller. He was ready to go to high school. But, and, vacation time, he had him and some other guys happened to go down where we used to live with. And, and on the others, well, where I used to live.
Line 82	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We used to, I was going to the store one day and I had about a quarter of milk, you know, a jar.
Line 83	Angela Luckey: You took your own jars to the.
Line 84	Epigmenio J. Rosales: To the. Yeah. And then and then we get.
Line 85	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, they sell them.
Line 86	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Put one in, you know, and we used to take.
Line 87	Angela Luckey: They recycle them empty jar.
Line 88	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then we'd pick one full, full jar of milk at home. So I had, one of those jars on my arm. And this on the record, I think. I thought he was a nice guy. You know, I liked him, you know, they, they were going. That's your mother and this, Don't. You asked me. Hey. You you have a match?
Line 89	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You got a match on you. And I said, no, I don't I don't smoke. I said, well, why don't you. Yeah, well I don't smoke. And then before I know he hit me on the face, you know, on my head or shoulders, my knocked me down on the sidewalk. And I used to think a lot of him, you know, it kind of hurt my feelings, you know that.
Line 90	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, I never seen him after that. I never seen him for about 3 or 4 years later. And that was about. I must have been about 11 or 12 at that time. And about three years. In 1927. I think it was 1927.
Line 91	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Some of the tour companies needed people to go work on the fields, on the farms, clean the boots and up, and so they needed help in certain places, you know, so they send somebody from the sugar factory to town to advertise that they would, pay everything for transportation and everything. And, and they could take anything they wanted and they'd pay for everything.
Line 92	Angela Luckey: Was this a...
Line 93	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. ... Yeah. Yeah, it was a country. So there was another family to live. And with us, we and my dad signed a large. And because he was not working too steady those days 1927. I think that's what it was.
Line 94	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So this and this. And we could go either to Nebraska, I don't know where, but to Nebraska or to Wyoming. So my dad was sent me to send us to Wyoming. So this put the other family in us, we get the upper. We were friends or my closest other family was from the same town that my dad was born in and out over the summers.
Line 95	Epigmenio J. Rosales: ...
Line 96	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, we were born in the same city around there. You know, "paisanos", we were very good friends, and I had two girls and two boys. We were bigger than I was. Two girls were younger.
Line 97	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, but we went on the same train to Riverton, Riverton Wyoming. And there we worked on the beach.
Line 98	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh. When we got there to Riverton, the farm that, we were going to work for, he didn't have a house to for us to stay, so the company rented us. He was paying. They were paying for the hotel where they said, well, you're going to stay here till the farmer gets a place for you. You, you you don't have to pay for anything.
Line 99	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we stayed on the road till, I don't know, maybe 2 or 3 weeks.
Line 100	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We used to go to, the restaurant and order whatever we liked. And the company would pay for. I know. Sure, you enjoy the, bacon and eggs. I thought that was very good. And I used to that stuff, you know? So. And we were really eating good. He was there. Then the farmer go to her house right there in town.
Line 101	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we moved to this house and the beach were not ready to be thin, you know, work on them. His were not ready. But there was another friend of ours that I don't know about. I don't know how far, but three miles, maybe, maybe a little more. He had too many beets and he couldn't do them alone by himself.
Line 102	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So. And they were getting too big, you know. He would be. Why don't you, would you like to come and help me? Bring my beets and then whatever, whatever time you put over there, then I can come and repay you. I'll come and help you in your your beets. So and so. My dad said, well, I can't it's too far away for me, black man.
Line 103	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I may have to go with you. And, And I had a bicycle, you know, I had a bicycle in Pueblo because I used to go out, pick cherries and apples. And I bought my own bicycle in Pueblo, so I took that with me. So I was the one that went to help him finish his. His boots.
Line 104	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I stayed about a week over there helping him. And then when our boots were ready, then he'd come over and help peel another school. He's mean your knowledge. You know. So he helped for the same days that I was over there and we didn't take long to finish.
Line 105	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, That, we within the beach and then, I don't know, there was a celebration in the summertime. I don't know what it was. In town in Riverton. They were selling hot dogs, and, Oh. You just. And then you know what I had, and, one of those people things, a lot of people there, you know, and, we there was, a friend of ours, him and I went and I think my brother was with me, too.
Line 106	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We went to town to the see the the first thing you know, young man in the city. And, we bought a hamburger. I guess he was a hamburger out there. And, one stand there stands, you know, around. We had, we had a hamburger. And then we were walking away from the stand when I heard some shots.
Line 107	Epigmenio J. Rosales: One. And you shot the one. The soldiers, sandwich was shot. Him. And this boy right there under. I don't know what for. I don't know that problems before or. Okay, but there's the Indian fella. He. Maybe they had worse. Anyway, he shot this. Guy that was throwing those hamburgers and stuff. I think, he was in jail after the.
Line 108	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So, we finished the beets and,
Line 109	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Thinning the beets. And, then... came up and we told them. We, he was starting to know when we finished up in those beats and then We decided to do what I did. He says, well I don't know, we're going to move, I don't want to stay here. And then there was another family. He says, well, we we, you know, Colonia in Torrington, Wyoming.
Line 110	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Now, remember Torrington, Wyoming. And there's a little under Colonia. You go down there and like, you can stay there all winter, you know, you're going to pay the rent or anything, so. Well, maybe I have to buy a car. So we went. He bought a car, a 19. I don't know what year it was. 23 or 24. Ford.
Line 111	Angela Luckey: How much did it cost?
Line 112	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I think we I think he paid $100. Maybe something like that.
Line 113	Angela Luckey: How much did you make?
Line 114	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I mean, worth it? Made it pretty good money, I guess, because we had we had the money just.
Line 115	Angela Luckey: But how much did you make? An acre or an hour?
Line 116	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't remember.
Line 117	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We've, we're do 20 in the 28, 19, 27. I don't know who was president then at that time.
Line 118	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, we, we must have made a down pretty good thumping beats because he says $100. Well, we buy a car so we can travel. So he bought this for. He's, light up, your know, closed car. I didn't know how to drive a car, either, I was.
Line 119	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I no, I drive.
Line 120	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, I didn't know how to drive a car.
Line 121	Angela Luckey: So you didn't know?
Line 122	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, I.
Line 123	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Didn't know what.
Line 124	Angela Luckey: You had.
Line 125	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no. You never. You never own one anyway. But I know more or less, because I had a friend in Pueblo. We were good friends, you know, and his mother was. I always had boarders, you know, but them. And they had a car a for, newer, newer model, you know, and each one and I used to go with him and I used to watch him.
Line 126	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I drove his car and what he had, what he had to do to get it started. He had to crank it with, hand by hand.
Line 127	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And if you put too much spark on the on your or your gas, if you that crank would jerk back and you might break your hand, you know. So we have to be careful when you start like that. And they didn't have no batteries.
Line 128	Epigmenio J. Rosales: All right. I, I watched my friend when I was in Pueblo. He used to drive his Ford. And he always had to crank it. And he was careful not to put too much work on it. So. So you want to kick back and break your wrist? So I learned from him, but I never drove it.
Line 129	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, I never do it. I just watch him do it so I know more or less how to go by. But it. So. I,
Line 130	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I did learn how to drive it. You know, I drove it around, you know, good. And prepared for the road. We were going to Tarentum. Stay over there and Torrington and another family go on this thing for a problem with us. We were going to go to Torrington to stay there for the winter. So we went clear from, Riverton.
Line 131	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We had to go clear over here. Clear to Torrington to stay. And they were starting to snow. But we got there all right.
Line 132	Angela Luckey: You drove?
Line 133	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I was the only driver. All that. We took their dishes, you know, and Wilson, whatever we took cooked with him. That's in the car because we didn't do anything. No furniture. Oh, my bicycle had to be with me all the time. I wasn't going to leave that. No.
Line 134	Angela Luckey: How did you pack that?
Line 135	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, I just packed it on the back or somewhere, I'm over the roof or somewhere. But I wasn't going to leave my bicycle, nowhere. Anyway, we went to Torrenton and we looked for a place to stay. It was full. No place. It was all filled up.
Line 136	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And so we decided then this other family, they said, well, I lived in, Salt Lake City before I went to Pueblo. If you. I think we better go down there. There might be more work down there. So we started coming to Salt Lake.
Line 137	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, I don't know how many days it took us to get there, but I remember going down hill or someplace. I don't know where it was. Oh, we passed Cheyenne, and we have to go turned. And then we had to go here around to show. And this way. And then to Utah. I don't know where which which way we went, because the when we was getting closer to Salt Lake, you know, we were already in Utah.
Line 138	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I think. There was a big lake or a reservoir or some way down, and we're just going downhill. But I had chains on that tire and we had chains on the tire, so I just looked down there. Oh boy, that's good. We fall down there. It'd be nice, but it wasn't bad. No, no, no. Traffic.
Line 139	Angela Luckey: Was your other your friends with you?
Line 140	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, they were behind us. I was the one leading the way.
Line 141	Angela Luckey: He had a car.
Line 142	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, they had their own car. Yeah, they bought one to go. They bought it before we bought ours. We bought ours at the last. You know what? We figured it was really needed something. But they already had their car because they had bought one before. You know, the two big boys and the two two girls, they made pretty good on the beach.
Line 143	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So they. Anyway, we got some lake. There. We rented one house there. The two families in the same house.
Line 144	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then my dad, he got acquainted with somebody from the railroad.
Line 145	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, during the, close, it was very close. Very close to the holidays. Then my dad and they decided, oh, this, this, and this is where I should hold it closer to where I live. There's a good, good house. They're pretty good size. Where you girlfriend's going to stay there. You know where we'd be neighbors. There. Well, now, his wife was from Seattle, so they were at home, and she used to play the mandolin.
Line 146	Epigmenio J. Rosales: This lady. And, my dad, my folks we used to visit after we moved to this other house where they lived, right near close neighbors there. And, so she plays a much like a dentist. And then she was another on on the mandolin. She was good on the holidays. And then there and the railroad there were having,
Line 147	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Some kind of a, reunion, you know, where, the workers would go have get together and get presents, candies, take the kids over there. Okay. Then they invited me and my brother, my brother, to go to this, the railroad underground house. And they told me. So we went there. Oh, they put out peanuts and apples and oranges in the bag.
Line 148	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Gave it to us. So we had that for Christmas. Then in January and then these, Forget what his name was.
Line 149	Epigmenio J. Rosales: This man that was, working during a railroad deal. He told my dad, if you join a union, they'll get you a job on the railroad. Well, you have to join the union first. And so then we know he was working for a Denver and real ground there. There was, where we lived, and, there was the other Union Pacific depot was harder.
Line 150	Epigmenio J. Rosales: It was on the other way, but they were very close. But anyway, he says, you go to, depot, I think, is that the, the Union Pacific depot and the Union Union there in the, I think they'll only charge you about $2 for to be a member. So we went over there. It was in January.
Line 151	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We're somewhere on there where we were. Maybe. And by that time, I was. Oh, I was about 15, maybe 15, probably. I was 1975. 19. 19, 27, 28, you know. So I was. Probably was about 15 going on 16, maybe back in my life. And, so my dad, he, he was collecting, union dues was,
Line 152	Epigmenio J. Rosales: he was road master. You know, he went traveling around here. So he was the one that got us the job. We gave him $2 for me, $2 when my dad and we got a job, and the other people got a job to. So they sent us way up, oh, I say about quite a ways from Salt Lake.
Line 153	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Nothing. Nothing over there. Nothing. A brush brush, no trees, no nothing. When you start stirring,
Line 154	Epigmenio J. Rosales: This place, they call it Ajax. Ajax. That's the name of the section where we were. There was another little. Another section. Changing close by. That's another section or early?
Line 155	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, they is,
Line 156	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Who in this road? Roadmaster told us where where we could go to work. The foreman in this, in this, section was a Japanese. And then he didn't talk much. He was all right. You know, when he seen me, he said, oh, you're not old enough to work. You know, I think you old enough to work. Well, I said, well, Roadmaster send me here.
Line 157	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So. Yeah, I guess all right, isn't it? Yeah. Well, I guess so. Take a chance on you.
Line 158	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I start working there because I know I was about 15, 16 going on 16. There. And,
Line 159	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, he had a guy working for him, I don't know how many years down living here, you know, great big tall guy, well-built. You. Got other people working there too. Not only us know but this guy and he said well you go work with this, this number one man, he's he's been working very long time, you know, with him.
Line 160	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So he you work with him and he's your partner. I look at him, okay? And make sure me, it makes it come to the right. He was, number one there in the section number one for energy. So he probably thought that, if I work with him, he could make me quit working. You know, because I was just a kid.
Line 161	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, we were stamping bars, digging ties out, tamping bars, low flam bars, you know, tamping ties with. And I stayed about, I don't know how many days my joints on my finger, my hands, they were, they were hurt because I was not used to that tamping bars, you know. But that didn't bother me, I just kept at it. And he, and this guy, boy, come on, we got to beat them other guys, we got to put in more ties, more than they do.
Line 162	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So, we always did. We always put it maybe 1 or 2 more than they did with the other guys. But he was always in competition with the others. And then the foreman, Larry, he didn't say nothing. You know. I got my joints on my hands. They were, well, right here, you know, tempting, but let them dig them up, put some new ones in there, and then put it with it with a hammer for some.
Line 163	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You learn. And then one day, he sent me to the section. We were about maybe a mile or over, maybe two miles, he says. You go to the good, section and get them below. Bring me some plugs. I don't know what plugs was.
Line 164	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Bring me some plugs. And, So I thought it was spark plugs. You know, I was thinking about cars, spark plugs for the cars, and I was wondering, what does he want spark plugs for? So I went through the section over and looked for the spark plugs and for cars. You know, those for the car. I went back and I said, there is no spark plugs over there.
Line 165	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no spark plugs, plugs for the nice thing as long sticks you put in the dice.
Line 166	Epigmenio J. Rosales: To tighten, you know, it was a one of those sticks and you and then you put a spike on it. And so you'll tighten up those two. Will I have to go back again. So then a boom a big bundle plugs. So they grow. Put them on maturity took them away. I didn't have a no motor to go.
Line 167	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I had to walk down there or run down.
Line 168	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We worked there for, I don't know how many months. Go on then.
Line 169	Angela Luckey: This is during the winter.
Line 170	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, still wintertime. I'm still cold. And then, then I got used to working with this guy. You know, he was still human. I got to be good. The French guy that I work with, the slave driver, I call him because he tried to make me clear, you know. And then, the Japanese, he said, I need another man here.
Line 171	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anybody here knows anybody in your family to come work here? And then my dad said, yeah, I go on and. But he lives in Michigan. Okay. Write to him, send him over. Tell him I don't know how he got there. I don't know if they sent him a parish or what, but anyway, he did get a job there.
Line 172	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Go get my job. And. Oh, he worked there. He got him and my aunt and my mother or sister.
Line 173	Angela Luckey: So that way. Oh, so it was your uncle?
Line 174	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He was my uncle and my mother's, well, and my mother's sister. Her sister married this fella, so he was my uncle.
Line 175	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Because he had a nice, nice place to live there in another room. Store. Everybody here. But, then in, started to get a warm up, you know, some Virgin Mary, I guess. I don't know, Lynn.
Line 176	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He started to warm up and. One time, you know this, Japanese. He he bought a new car. Brand new car. And he had friends again. Trailer. So he used to go get his groceries. Well, it's quite a ways from the center because he had to go to Saint John. Another the other section, and then, I don't know, turn out to 12.
Line 177	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's quite a way. But, he bought a new car, and then he. And we used to go with him here, only he invited me and my brother and my uncle. If you want to go uptown, come with me. So we used to go with him.
Line 178	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, one time, We used to go to the movies, you know, he said, you guys go to the movies. I'm going to see my friends over here. I have friends here, and I, well, you I go visit with him, you go to the movies. So my uncle there, and I'm not. I don't know who my brother was, was with us or not.
Line 179	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You guys go to the movies, and then I'll pick you up later. So. And, one of these times that we didn't go to the movies, we just all just walk around. So we were walking around. I don't think my brother was walking with us that time. He was just growing up. Here's the little ten. So we was walking and my uncle and I were walking down, down.
Line 180	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I seen one guy coming towards us, you know, he was alone. And he got closer and I thought, gee, I think I know that guy. But he was, you know, after three years, 3 or 4 years later, he what? I was can I think I think I know, I think I know like. So I asked you they don't, I know you they were nice I think I know you, I just like what's your name?
Line 181	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Your name is Tony, isn't it? Yeah, that's my name. Tony... Oh, yeah. How do you know my name? Oh, yeah. I can remember you. You live in Pueblo, didn't you? Yeah, I was, yeah, I'm literally just a little from school, so he's. I was going to be friends with him. And then I told him, well, you remember one time you asked me for a match and I didn't have a match to give you, so you could have, like, a cigarette?
Line 182	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He said, oh, I don't know. I don't remember. Well, I do.
Line 183	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I popped him on his head, I don't know where.
Line 184	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Makes me feel kind of funny, you know, because I hit him. You know, I hit him. I don't know ... I really hit him. Hard too, you know, think he landed on the sidewalk, and then I was going to hit him again and again, and then my uncle died. I'm better. He grabbed me from behind, pulling away from him, and I was going to work.
Line 185	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I was working on him or. And then, my uncle, he grabbed me from behind, and. Hey, don't don't don't. What are you doing? What's the matter with you? So I was going to settle with this guy. And when that guy got up, like he took off, he didn't stay there. And you know.
Line 186	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then we went back after I settled my score with that guy. We walked around, you know, now, I was going around really working more, more. But my uncle held me back, you know, and he and I was bigger because when he hit me, you know, I was about 11 or 12 years old and. Anyway, we went back home and in May, they were looking for beet thinners.
Line 187	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then my dad said, I think I'll go to Idaho because they needed help in Idaho to work on the beach. So this and this, we were in Manchester and then the Japanese, he he knew this guy, so he said, oh, I know, yeah, I know the man that's, looking for help. So he told him about us wanting to go work on a beach.
Line 188	Epigmenio J. Rosales: My uncle stayed there, and my dad, we we got they sent us over here to Shelley.
Line 189	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Shelley Idaho.
Line 190	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And that.
Line 191	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Shelley Idaho. And,
Line 192	Epigmenio J. Rosales: At that time then
Line 193	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That first year the few men who took us around looking for the place for us to work that first year. It was 1929, I guess she was 28. We spent it in Ajax in the winter time or 29, I don't know. So.
Line 194	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We, I went to the sugar, the sugar factory. That's where. That's true. Their factory. There was houses there, you know, and this field, him and he took us around and car looking for a place for us. So we went down towards first. I got the first and we crossed snake River. Because the one farmer that needed help or he had about 20 acres.
Line 195	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Sure thing. And, he he said, well, I got some dinners here. You got a place for them to stay home. And, Yeah. He said you know. Well, I have a, chicken coop here. They can clean it up and sleep there. And my dad said, no, thank you. You can have you're a beach. So we told that people may not, you know, go to sleep in a chicken coop.
Line 196	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we told that fieldman, no, we're not going to sleep, no, chicken coop. Yeah, that's what it was, chicken coop. So he said, nope, we don't want, we're not going to work here. So he took us around and then he sent us to Shelley, we went back to Shelley. And then there was a farmer there. Between Shelley and Arrojo Falls, there was a beat dump right there. And the farmer was right there, right next to the railroad tracks. The farmer, he had about 20 acres. So we moved there, he had a nice place for us. So he's in beach there. And then, And he had the biggest beach. You know, if you had 14 turn to an acre, you had a good crop, a beach, 14, 12, 16, ten to an acre.
Line 197	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then he had the biggest beats. You know, if you had 14 tons to an acre, you had a good crop of beats. 14, 12, 16 tons to an acre, you had a good crop. And he had 24 tons to an acre, right, big ones.
Line 198	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, you know, we had, certain wages we were supposed to get for something which so many, so much at times. And we had our friend and, shellfish thing and chili. He was.
Line 199	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Working there at the minute. I said, I'll take us. And, when we finished up in those beach, you know, you he went to the factory to get the money for us. You know, the only and we were just supposed to get so much uptown, you know. But he didn't know how much, so he said, well, I'll pay you so much.
Line 200	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And he was going to pay us more than what the company was paying for. The bitter. So then, he happened to meet, this friend of ours up there and, factory to factory, and they started talking and how much they were paying, you know, and then this, good friend of ours, the question was, in my head, he said, oh, no, no, no, no, no, you're paying too much.
Line 201	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You're paying too much. We only did it so much. Oh, boy. So there. We lost about $100 right there. And I never had a good friend. Large, but he was paying us more than, the company was paying so much an acre, but he never bothered to ask, you know, he just pay. So much. So we. The beach.
Line 202	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, we went the next year. We. The next summer we went to work for another another another farmer. You had a big farm. You had three. He had three hired. Now we're year round. Three men working all year because he had a lot of work there essentially. Still, you know, this was over here towards first down this other way.
Line 203	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know what...what was the name of that town over there, Shelley? Upper Press or Goshen? What was it? Wapello? Wapello? Where do we live? Ziegler? Ziegler? Okay. Oh, yeah. I tell you, when we. Oh. Let's see. What was. And I forgot something. We're Larson... Wapello. It's about five miles from Firth. And...oh, before...oh, yeah, I tell you.
Line 204	Epigmenio J. Rosales: When we, before we went to work for these, to go for a little falls, you know, we we there was, Boy, before we we went to this, first, first, you know, after the guy from, that to the chicken coop, you know, he's. We were looking for. For a place to work. And, then he says, well, you can, you need to get the first, you know, a little town right close by there.
Line 205	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There was a some farms around there, you know, he had beat around there. He says, you you can stay here. These, they had, there was a, rancher there that had a, a little house was, little trees around there. He he told us, you can stay here and then go wherever. And no matter where you go, you can go ... wherever you want to go.
Line 206	Epigmenio J. Rosales: The thing which. So. So we did we. That's what we did the first year before we went to Idaho Falls. Do.
Line 207	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And right there we seen we met my compadre Arvo... They were growing there, still growing them. They used to go fishing. We lived right by the canal there and they used to go fishing right there. There was this small cheese factory. Somebody making cheese or I don't know, they took that away later on, but that's what they used to make cheese there.
Line 208	Angela Luckey: That Frances's husband,
Line 209	Epigmenio J. Rosales: ...
Line 210	Angela Luckey: Jose husband? Oh.
Line 211	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know. Well, that's the Frankie's brother. Francis would anyway, their little they were still young, and they used to go fishing over there and then I don't know how come, we met, doing a lot of, pasta and, what was the, their father shown it to Janet. They couldn't show it. And they they were working there and, such.
Line 212	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And he was working on their writing towns right in first and a section there. And we used to visit them, you know, we got acquainted somehow. We got acquainted with them, and. We used to visit with them and, and, and then, in the summertime, We, you know, they used to make enchiladas and tamales, so, you know, fried chicken and, and then, you know, that works.
Line 213	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And so we were invited to them. And then there was, some people from Pocatello used to go play, you know, you know, to join because they like to go and shoot this, have an enchiladas and the others, whatever.
Line 214	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And anyway, Domingo. Domingo, ladies. And, what was, Ernest Morita used to play guitar, I think Ernest Morita. I think that was his name. Ernest, I forget. Anyway, he used to play the guitar, too, and. Yes, Ernestine, father and Rose's father, who was.
Line 215	Epigmenio J. Rosales: At, Anyway, Ernestine was married to Tony Torez, Torez. She was about 13 then around there, and they used to go over there and from here from Pocatello. And there was another girl, I forget what her name was. So we got acquainted there, and and they used to come here, Pocatello, to visit over here.
Line 216	Angela Luckey: Is that when you started playing the guitar? You know.
Line 217	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I didn't know. I didn't have no, no, no instrument. I wish I had the desire to play violin, but, you know, I didn't know nothing about a guitar. Because in Mexico, when, my dad, when back from here, from this country, before coming this way, there was a friend of his person. But I was there, and I stopped by there, you know, just to visit.
Line 218	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And he had a violin with him over his shoulder. That. And then my dad here, a harmonica that he had taken from here to Mexico. So they both got together playing him. The one, that man playing the violin and my dad the harmonica. So I like the violin. I said, gee, someday I'll learn how to play that.
Line 219	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But I never, ever since then that was maybe 4 or 5 years and not like one a little over four years. And I started making sticks with a another stick with a string on it. Tried to play like a violin that just kept that up for a long time, trying to figure it out. But I never owned a violin or nothing, so I grew up without a violin anyway, with a desire after, you know, through.
Line 220	Angela Luckey: So those guys would get together and play. Why, when you got together to eat.
Line 221	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I got, I started playing, I bought a violin here, and I drove all this when I, when I the Mingo playing the violin here. And I used to play mandolin to the banjo to. Then I bought me a violin here in Idaho Falls and. There was a sheepherder there. I got acquainted with in the winter time.
Line 222	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He used to play the guitar. And then I started learning how to play the violin to. So then the farmers, I mean, you know, the farmers in the wintertime, they they like to make partition on and they know him, you know, because he was a sheep or and they were pretty well known. Anyway, he worked for the, was the, Cox? Anyway, they used to have honey, they used to have honey and sell it.
Line 223	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And they also had sheep. Sheep. And he was working for them. And they always make parties, you know. So I met other people that play the violin, too. And I start picking it up little by little very soon. And so I don't play violin.
Line 224	Angela Luckey: And so you learn all by yourself.
Line 225	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. Yeah. I didn't. Then we moved to, this other place. Learning where it was. I worked for him for maybe 11 years, I guess.
Line 226	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, anyway.
Line 227	Angela Luckey: You were working for Larsen.
Line 228	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. We, after the film, and they took me to this. You know, for for a place that he thought would be just right for us. So that was 2 or 2 Berkeley locations. You got to go to a large farm or you're over 200 or more 200 acres or something like two, 300. He used to raise beets and spectators and hay and straw, you know, I mean, we that's the we had a job there.
Line 229	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So that was in the 30s.
Line 230	Epigmenio J. Rosales: 1930, I think it was when we moved to there somewhere around there. So. And then, I think you need to go a little from the railroad. From the railroad. You got laid off, and then they go to don't go to town. They go to a, place, a house where they ... wherever they want to go.
Line 231	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And and we used to visit them. After all, we knew. So.
Line 232	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That, the Larsons
Line 233	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well let's see before and 1929, you know, I used to hear about a family named Dominguez who used to. There was a about 28, 29, I think it was 19, 20, 29. Something, 28. When we lived in close to Ottawa Falls that first year, we worked on the second year, I think it was.
Line 234	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That farm was a big beach, you know, there was a, friend of ours, he used to go to Driggs. A lot of people used to go to Driggs, pick peas over there. And, this friend of ours, he says he used to visit with my dad, you know, just over there, say, hey, I know there's a nice little girl, or she's about 13 years old, a real nice looking girl.
Line 235	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You. A lot of these years, I'll take you down there so you can meet her. That was in 1930, I think. 1930. Around there. 1930. But then they'd never come. But there's only one thing, though. There's two brothers that sure like to fight, and, Well, that's all right. I'll meet them. So. But, never got to meet my my wife.
Line 236	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You. She was about 13. I think that time. But, you got to watch that because she's got her two brothers. And, boy, they sure liked to fight. And, Oh, well. But, he was going to take me, you know, get acquainted with, with her. They're nice looking girl. Just right for you.
Line 237	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But they never come, so I never. I never met her. Carol. 1934 or 35. Because they used to live in, they had they had moved to Ray-Ray and they worked over in a rotary marriage.
Line 238	Angela Luckey: Okay.
Line 239	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's where they used to work there right around 1930. And then they moved on to Shirley in 19, maybe 33, I guess when they moved that to over here to Shirley, where I was, of course, they lived over further away from us. So, you know, I didn't know him, you know, I didn't know them. But, movies were popular there.
Line 240	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They they used to box a lot. I owned a retreat. That's all they done down there. They were well known over there. Box. Ya box. You know the promoters down there, small-town promoters. They want to make something for the people to go watch. Their favorite guys that like to fight, you know. And the two boys, her brothers, they used to box over there. They liked them over there. And then they moved to Shelley. Well, not to Shelley, but to the farm.
Line 241	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And on a spot night, you know, before, they used to have a celebration there in Shelley. And they, they had, they also had, besides other programs, the they had a will for those, wheels, Ferris wheel. You know, they had a, you know, something like a colonel matter that they had there. And then they had, they also had a platform where they built.
Line 242	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So they had boxing there in the evening. That was around 7:00. They had boxing there. And the boys, her brothers used to fight. So that's how come I used to see them. But I never got acquainted with them or, you know, you know, I never know those. They never used them. But I know who they were. And I seen my wife do.
Line 243	Epigmenio J. Rosales: She was with her cousins over there. The one night. Oh, and 1934. You know, I sit down to sleep.
Line 244	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We can't walk without my shoes or my socks. I want to see them, please. Oh, that one.
Line 245	Angela Luckey: Okay. How?
Line 246	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I seen her.
Line 247	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I seen her that year. 19, 1934. Her brothers had. They were there boxing. And she was with the summer cousins. You know, girls, summer girls. They were cousins, you know, they were walking down the street and no senior walking around. I didn't pay attention to her. I didn't know what you were. I didn't know she was either. So, there was another girl that I had before and before her.
Line 248	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We're not talking about my time.
Line 249	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No. I'm not. Nothing about your life. I'm talking about mine.
Line 250	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, I never met her, you know, and then, like, they used to go to California every winter after the work was done, they used to go to California.
Line 251	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They went in 1935. They decided to come to Pocatello earlier than usual, and they moved right next door to where I live, where we lived on the second, the sugar factory, because we didn't stay in the foreman either. In the wintertime, we moved to the sugar factory. They had houses there, and there was about 3 or 4 houses there, right?
Line 252	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Right.
Line 253	Angela Luckey: And one right there in Idaho farm?
Line 254	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, here in, Chile. Yeah. All right. Then they come to Chile from California or wherever. I don't know where they were before that, 1935, and they moved right next door. But the next house where we lived. But right now is, I am, I am I lived in two rooms and these are the house. And I named my brother.
Line 255	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I used to have these other two rooms and they moved on this other than the following house. You could see the through the window here. So I used to pretend like I was writing a note there. You know, I had the light in the night time. I pretended like I was Jewish writing something. And I know she was looking at me, but, I do let her know.
Line 256	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, I didn't, I didn't get acquainted with her right away, but, boys, they they, you know, the one. They like the boxes. Come on. I want you to help me spar with a boxing girl. So, of course I'm going to have a fight coming there. So I have a fight coming up in a riot. And, I'd like to have you help me spar with the boxing gloves.
Line 257	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I said, oh, sure, I will. And then I got acquainted with him and. And that's how come I got acquainted with her and her older brother, too.
Line 258	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And my sister.
Line 259	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And. Oh, yeah, he's a well, her sister. She was after me.
Line 260	Angela Luckey: And,
Line 261	Epigmenio J. Rosales: She listened and. But, I never, I never, you know, I, I respect that the family here know. And, So I happen to be the one who was going to fight in a rotary. So I helped him spar around with him and human. I got to be real good. But.
Line 262	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So, the family, you know, got no, no, no fight her dad and, and, your brother John won't do it, did he? Yeah. And Pete, then they picked up on, for another family over there. You know, Ellery for. But, her father and these other. They picked him up. So. Because he liked to watch the boys fight, so he they picked him up and we went to rotary.
Line 263	Epigmenio J. Rosales: When he was getting away, they were away, and away in the room, you know, downstairs, the basement. They had the doctor there, checking your blood pressure, pressure. See if he was all right to fight. like, And then away and see what they weighed and all that. So they got him there.
Line 264	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then they. And they asked him, do you think their boy, your friend here. Good one, a box. You know. Oh, we're not that we're not going to be on that on that card, you know. He says, oh I think he will. You already knew and think about it. Know I didn't know what was going on over there.
Line 265	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then he said, hey, would you like to box, take somebody else place? He says, why? Yeah, you bet. Oh, I sure, yeah. They told me the guy was going to fight you. His car broke down the road. Son was in Blackwood or somewhere, and you won't be able to make make it for the fight. So he called up over there.
Line 266	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So that's how come they got me to fight that night? So they checked my blood and everything, what I weighed, 135 pounds. Was you there? Yeah, I was not down there.
Line 267	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know you didn't go to watch the fights.
Line 268	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh okay. Anyway.
Line 269	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They they got me I was one of the first ones to fight in the ring.
Line 270	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And when I was around my corner sitting down. I was sitting down, you know, ready to fight the other guy. The other guy was in the other corner. No, it's on the other corner. Some drunk guy got up on the platform, and he yelled out loud, you know, knock that Mexican greaser out of here and send him back to where he come from.
Line 271	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You come and I just listen to him. And then the referee, he went over closer to him, oh, yes, knocked him out of the platform way down the floor. Everything was quiet after that. You didn't say no more. Anyway, you. So I didn't have no boxing shoes on. No, I was in no. And no shorts that more, you know, to fit me right now shoes were a little bit larger, so I was not going to fight that much.
Line 272	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But anyway, I done pretty good anyway. I had to, the shorts that I was wearing, I had a little too big, I had to pin them down with something to pull them up. After the fight, I think I got $10 for the fight. You know, they paid us off, you know.
Line 273	Angela Luckey: And you weren't?
Line 274	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, I don't know, he beat me, but, you know, just a decision. But I wasn't expecting to fight because I wasn't that I was not, I'm not used to working people. A lot of women around the ring and on. People are always going for their favorite fighter, you know? So I was kind of a little charmed to be there, with a, George shorty.
Line 275	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, he beat me, but not, you know, just a decision. And my brother, I think he he became my brother. But when he came to fight, you know, when his turn came to fight up to the ...
Line 276	Angela Luckey: It was popular.
Line 277	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. He was partners like that, you know, they were popular there. So anyway, he'd done pretty good.
Line 278	Angela Luckey: For most of the boxers. Mexican guys.
Line 279	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No single division rancheros does have a strong general because we like to fight some of those for sure. Some guys from the city to they like to fight, you know.
Line 280	Angela Luckey: Did you wear gloves and.
Line 281	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh yeah. And we had to have a gloves. You, they put tape put on your, around your knuckles and then the boxing gloves on. And we got paid. I got my share. What I think they gave me. And then I went to the store and, and bought her a box of chocolates.
Line 282	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, I gave her a box of chocolates because I was just getting acquainted with her, and I wanted to get to know her better. So. So I bought her a box of chocolates and gave it to her there in front of her dad. Yeah, it was for her anyway, and then later, Oh, I don't know. How you butter her to go to the movies?
Line 283	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And her brother, her older brother went along. You tagalong to watch? Oh, I don't use a you had to tag along. So. Anyway, we were watching a her and I were separate from him. He was separated himself somewhere else and we were together watching the movie. Should know what? Really. And I really liked the movie. There you go.
Line 284	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, we start falling in love with each other here. Put my arm around her, and then, Well, we went home, know that? And I say, I told her, hey, I think you. I think you and I belong to each other, don't we? And she's. Yeah. And of course, her brother, she had told me before, those. We sure like to have you to be a member of the family, cause they they had already.
Line 285	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. And, I said, well, gosh, that sounds good. So then I asked her, do, why don't we just get married at, we we were in the movies, you know? So next day we got married.
Line 286	Angela Luckey: Just like that.
Line 287	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Just one day. And we got married next day.
Line 288	Epigmenio J. Rosales: ...
Line 289	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. Like today, we we got married after that movie.
Line 290	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We got married, and,
Line 291	Angela Luckey: Well, you didn't. Did you get married in the church?
Line 292	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no, no, this.
Line 293	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Movie came right? Just right for us to propose that.
Line 294	Angela Luckey: Movie, was it?
Line 295	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, no. I know I've heard of them before, but I never got acquainted with her.
Line 296	Angela Luckey: Yeah, but what movie was it?
Line 297	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know what?
Line 298	Angela Luckey: What movie went well?
Line 299	Epigmenio J. Rosales: It was nice, a nice movie, you know, anything I remember? I don't think I would, and I was too good because I was hurting my arm around, I was paying more attention to her than the movie. I guess.
Line 300	Angela Luckey: So you just went, like, to the judge or some justice.
Line 301	Epigmenio J. Rosales: The next day we went,
Line 302	Epigmenio J. Rosales: To Idaho Falls and got married. But the judge. And that was it. And I'm still married. We're still married.
Line 303	Angela Luckey: For a year now.
Line 304	Epigmenio J. Rosales: 56, 56 years.
Line 305	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Must've been a good movie.
Line 306	Epigmenio J. Rosales: It must have been a good movie. You're right. Because there's. We're still together. Then after that, I wish they were going to California, where they're, And, I used to box. After that, I got acquainted with some more promoters around small town promoters. You. They put boxing matches on, and they. I was looking for somebody to wash the boat.
Line 307	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They don't always want the same guy in boxing with the shovel. They'll want something different. And then I stuck it around like that. For the papers, you know, like that. So. Went to California.
Line 308	Angela Luckey: Did Mary go with you? Did Mary go?
Line 309	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. We got a point. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We had Johnny, Patsy, Nellis.. And I knows.
Line 310	Epigmenio J. Rosales: What was his fault.
Line 311	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, that was before we started going over there.
Line 312	Angela Luckey: You went with your dad and mom?
Line 313	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, with my dad. So they started going, that they had a, new car, Chevrolet. And they started going to California to enter. To get away from that cold weather here and then come back in the summertime.
Line 314	Angela Luckey: Where did they go?
Line 315	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, we used to different place in Oceanside or ocean. Oh, yeah. Me so but here's what I see. Some of is always with Santa Maria. It was a loop. There's some, you know, run down the coast. And they used to have a place here. You know, you might have boxing around that,
Line 316	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, would you was expecting Rita. It was 1942, wasn't?
Line 317	Epigmenio J. Rosales: 1942
Line 318	Epigmenio J. Rosales: ...
Line 319	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Her folks moved to Nassau, Oregon. They bought a place over there. You they bought a home over there.
Line 320	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They had a home. There.
Line 321	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, and then I told her, well, she was expecting Rita. So I say, why don't you go or stay with your folks, and I'll go to California and see if I can find a job. That's what. That's what I was looking for. You know, a job, a steady job. No, that was my intention. So the thing that I station to.
Line 322	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I sent her over there, and then I took off to California.
Line 323	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But, to, LeMans to over there. I work one week picking lemons, and I never got paid for it because they were on a strike. But I still, you know, I still worked anyway, after that, after the strike, I still pick lemons. And then they had boxing there, too. So I started boxing around. There, somewhere.
Line 324	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, I'm not really a riverside. Well, I was not in Riverside as I was in, another little town that we would read. Let's not forget. Anyway, I used to go with other guys. I used to go, but I got I got, acquainted around there. And they used to get. What did I do pretty good there for a while.
Line 325	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then my brother in law, he had. He was in, Oceanside.
Line 326	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Just this year or San Diego. He was working over there with a Japanese. And he this Japanese had, 20 over 28, 25 men working year round, all all year. And he was working for him. Then he. And then he then he said, hey, you if you want a steady job, I want it for you. If you want it.
Line 327	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So I said, oh, you bet I do. So then I went over there, Oceanside. And I got, I run there a little, little, trailer. No, trailer house, one of those, A little.
Line 328	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Movies on a smaller, you know? No, I was there by myself all the time. The owner had a house. I mean, door right next to it, and I rent it from her. Right, right by there. But I. I had a job there anyway. One time, you know, work there and then I got a job right away.
Line 329	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Steady job. Then one time, my brother in law and I was going. I was going to work that on his car because we used to go to work together.
Line 330	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And his career over to the Japanese farm, about five miles from, from town. And then we was going to work in the morning, driving down that way, there was a patrol car coming this other way. And then he recognized that we were Mexican. So they stopped us. You know. They stopped us. And then they start asking us questions.
Line 331	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, they the first they asked me first, you know, and I told them, yeah, because they asked me where if I was born here. Where was I born? I said, I was born in Mexico. I said, I was born in Mexico, but I was raised in and, and then I told them where I lived, you know, Pueblo, Colorado and Shenandoah, right.
Line 332	Epigmenio J. Rosales: New Mexico and and Wyoming and Riverton and and Salt Lake. And I mentioned all those places where I worked there. Jackson. Saint John, because I worked at Saint John, too, after my uncle moved over there, after he moved to Saint John. And then he, he, he got a job for us to go to work in Saint John before talking before in Chile.
Line 333	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we were in Saint John to. And I don't know where it where I worked. And then I okay then. Okay. So they they turned me loose okay okay. Then they started questioning him and he told them, well, I was born here, you know, they didn't believe him. They took him. They took him to the house. He was married.
Line 334	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They take him to the house to prove it, that he was born here. When he that when they brought him back to the car. Boy, you know, these social. And then how come they didn't send you back? Oh, come. They didn't send you to that was. Oh, well, I tell the truth. I don't know, but he was telling the truth, you know, he was born here.
Line 335	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Walsenburg home, Colorado. But I told him I was so or born in Mexico. And I went to school in Colorado, Pueblo, Colorado.
Line 336	Unknown Speaker: You had your little card?
Line 337	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't remember.
Line 338	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So anyway.
Line 339	Angela Luckey: What year was this?
Line 340	Epigmenio J. Rosales: 1942
Line 341	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, that then at that time, there was a war going on here, overseas with the Japanese. Japanese. So I think it was, you know, when they hit hit or and then they started, at that time, you know, they start taking all the Japanese away from the coast. They took everything away from them.
Line 342	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And this farmer was where we worked. Yeah. He had 25 men, 22 over 20 men, working and year round planning seed, vegetables, cabbage and whatever. You know, he had a big farm in. Anyway, they took the farm away from him and they sent him to concentration camps. And then, that was the end of that job. The steady job that I thought I had.
Line 343	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So. So I went back to. Oh. And then, at that time, I think she was expecting Rita months and the, Japanese were still there, but they were going to take them away. Then, I was going to buy a car from one of the Japanese. Yeah, nice. Nice. Ford. I was going to buy it from him for $100.
Line 344	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And it was worth more. But something happened that he couldn't sell it. I don't know why they took it away, so I didn't buy it. So, So I went back to Naselle, where she was. Then,
Line 345	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no, no, her folks, her that were still working there. And then before that time. They called me, told me that, she was really sick and, when she was having Rita and she they didn't know what was wrong with her. She was still working there at the company, and, so they showed me a telegram, you know, so I quit working because I know you're staying there.
Line 346	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They were going to take all the Japanese away from there. So I went to Naselle and right there in, how they do this, they had a little town they call a little Tokyo little town there they are selling everything. They're cheap. Just giving it away. But. So anyway, I went to Naselle and from there. Rita was born.
Line 347	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, I think with that over there, you know, they should be sooner over there and over here. So I didn't reach over there. And then I went back to Portland over at, Larson's. House in 1942. And I was working there for the Larson's the summer. Yeah. Teen beach there and the beach there. And then the.
Line 348	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh. All summer. And then over the beach there and, you know, I was, I was, I heard I was I had a steady job was there since June of but my brother had moved to. In the summertime in 1942 on brother. He was working on the railroad here in the summertime because he didn't like the farm. He didn't never want to work on the farm.
Line 349	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So he come to Pocatello and got a job on the railroad here. That's where he met his wife, Nellie. He was boarding with them. They got acquainted, they got married. And then what.
Line 350	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Was her maiden name.
Line 351	Angela Luckey: My Nellie's maiden name before she got.
Line 352	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Married Nellie Garcia. You know Jess Garcia and ... That's her sister. Well, yeah. And Nellie,
Line 353	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And, and then, then my brother, he. He got my dad a job here in the river and, here in New York. And I thought I was going to stay in a rancho, the farm over there. I like it, you know, I like it. And but, then my brother said, oh, don't you? Yeah. I got a good, steady job.
Line 354	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And there you have more wages. You get more benefits.
Line 355	Angela Luckey: A job at the railroad?
Line 356	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah. And my brother, he he told me to come here. He he said, I have a job for you here, so you better come. That was in December 1928. 1942. So. But I was going to stay at the firm. But he said, no, you don't get no benefits over there. You better wages here and everything. So because of him, I come over here Pocatello.
Line 357	Angela Luckey: And you work for the railroad?
Line 358	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And ever since I was a railroader, working around I was there, held different jobs. You know, I moved around.
Line 359	Angela Luckey: What kind of job would you do?
Line 360	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, I used to hang heaters for the steam engine engines. They had, steam engines, you know, 1942, before the visual circuit in. So I had to hang heaters, you know, big pipes, and then hook them up to the engine with heat, steam, and then fire them up, or put fire on them. Doesn't matter. You know. But we had to fire them up in the house and around house.
Line 361	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I, I liked the job that I was doing.
Line 362	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Then. Then I moved around you know, and from one job to another those that was started coming in that there was no more hanging, hanging heaters cause they, they got away with the steam engines, they start bringing in those diesel units after the. Worked in the coal chutes and I work in a fan house and I worked in the fire house all over.
Line 363	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So.
Line 364	Angela Luckey: What are your parents? Did they come here? Who? Your parents did. They moved to Pocatello.
Line 365	Epigmenio J. Rosales: My parents? Oh, they were here before I came because my brother got my dad a job here in the section.
Line 366	Angela Luckey: You were in Nampa. Still?
Line 367	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He was. He was, he got here in the summertime, and my dad. Oh, and my dad come here before cabin beach.
Line 368	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In the fall.
Line 369	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In the fall? Yeah, it was in, I don't know, over. I don't know, I should have been October anyway. And then, at that time, these Japanese that they had were in concentration camps.
Line 370	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Enough.
Line 371	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. But let me tell you, before I come over here, I know after they had, you know, I liked beets in the farm first before coming here, you know, but at that time, they had, Japanese from the concentration camps. They heard about the Japanese over there, or maybe 16 to top the to beets or Japanese up in beets.
Line 372	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There was still 1942. And,
Line 373	Angela Luckey: Were there some kind of a gang? How many did they how well did they watch you?
Line 374	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, well, I don't know what they done, but, Farmer, they couldn't do nothing, you know, that. They had to do what they were told to do. So they've done. They worked on the farm over there helping beets. For versions that year.
Line 375	Angela Luckey: There was their camp. They came from. Where was the camp where they came from?
Line 376	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know. Well, I don't know where they were. They were camp. Maybe somewhere, maybe Boise. I don't know, but that's what they had of doing over here at the farm. There was but maybe 12, 16.
Line 377	Angela Luckey: Did they live on the farm?
Line 378	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And yeah, they stayed there in a place where the farm.
Line 379	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. The farmer had two cabbage. They're pretty good size.
Line 380	Angela Luckey: Just the man.
Line 381	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Just man alone? No. No families. Just the men alone. And they. They were the ones that up the beach that was there to.
Line 382	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There was, quota. When I come to Pocatello.
Line 383	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Because of my brother.
Line 384	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Who says you get more benefits here? And all you got to do is just join in the union, and that's all. That's all you got to do. And I like the railroad anyway. Oh, it did, I, I enjoyed it. No section.
Line 385	Angela Luckey: He talked a little bit about...
Line 386	Angela Luckey: Life and Pocatello. I mean, like whatever. And many Mexicans here by the time we got here.
Line 387	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, there's of Mexican people here.
Line 388	Angela Luckey: Did they live in a certain neighborhood?
Line 389	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They lived here in town, you know, and a lot of them work there in the yard there in their own house here. That was during the war. And
Line 390	Unknown Speaker: ...
Line 391	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, yeah. Well, yeah. Don't, don't don't guess it was Rogers. He was working in a section here, right? Was a flower man there.
Line 392	Angela Luckey: That's Tony's.
Line 393	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. We used to, Tony Rojas. And his dad was working here, and I like a deep blue.
Line 394	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I grew up in Hancock over here.
Line 395	Unknown Speaker: ...
Line 396	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I remember.
Line 397	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We, we go to, well we visited before you know, before we come here.
Line 398	Epigmenio J. Rosales: To the town.
Line 399	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We used to visit, you know, they used to go over there to the farm and, and you can learn the circle. Yeah. And right from the same town we, we were from. So my dad and him, they, they were patients. This was we were red from the same.
Line 400	Unknown Speaker: And all the Mexicans lived around on.
Line 401	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No over here. Yeah.
Line 402	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But closer to that railroad over there by the mill.
Line 403	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Garcia. Yeah, yeah.
Line 404	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And that means.
Line 405	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They, And yes, his father used to work there. They used to live in the yard, but they had they moved him out.
Line 406	Unknown Speaker: Let us live there, too.
Line 407	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Or she let us the, the, they come later.
Line 408	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. I believe they're two around there.
Line 409	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 410	Angela Luckey: How are you treated here?
Line 411	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They're pretty good. You know, if you you mind your behave yourself. I mean, of course, there's guys that are. I don't like the Mexican people very. The, Mexican greasers, you know, they're they they get they talk to you like that, so you wind up with them, you know? Get in trouble with them too.
Line 412	Angela Luckey: When they have the dancing around here.
Line 413	Angela Luckey: Did you play?
Line 414	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Did I did that? After I got started playing, I started learning how to play the violin more. I played the violin with Domingo, Domingo, Hugo's and, fiddle. And, who was, the Grange.
Line 415	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Wasn't there? Grange Hall for you to go, guys, like. Yeah.
Line 416	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There was, there was another place down by the river where you. They had this and I, like, built.
Line 417	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 418	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Center. They said it was me.
Line 419	Epigmenio J. Rosales: The because I remember, I can't remember too much about. But I remember that place there.
Line 420	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, there was, upstairs. We used to play there, and, there was, Oh. Who was, Rodriguez? You know, his husband? His first name. You said he George Rodriguez. He used to play piano. And there you go. I was playing the violin with, the other, mandolin. Banjo, guitar?
Line 421	Angela Luckey: You play piano, too, didn't you?
Line 422	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, they came later. Yeah, that came later. Anyway, I bought a piano from,
Line 423	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Carlos Martinez for many months at a bar.
Line 424	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He used to have a bar at a center there. Well, he wanted me to have him, and I want to build. Build, a boxing team there, you know? Yeah. One time, you know, he had that bar over there, and then he had a big picture of Jack Dempsey. A real nice picture, you know, in that position, that real nice picture he handed out there and just play.
Line 425	Epigmenio J. Rosales: He said, hey, what do you and I get some of these boys to come, and we form up a group on the east side, the east side. You know, they say gang or whatever it was. Okay, that's strange because nobody, nobody. Well, there was during the war time.
Line 426	Angela Luckey: You didn't get drafted.
Line 427	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, I didn't, I don't go see it, but, see, I had too many kids. They didn't want to be for, supporting my family. I had too many to support him.
Line 428	Angela Luckey: Did not come in here.
Line 429	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, according to them, I. Gosh, we had a.
Line 430	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Wrong on them. We had.
Line 431	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Four. And then that was over 30 years old. So, you know.
Line 432	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They didn't take him, but he was come. I was too.
Line 433	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I was coming close to it when when the war was over, 1945. I don't know when it was.
Line 434	Epigmenio J. Rosales: When was it over 45, 45.
Line 435	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, something like that.
Line 436	Angela Luckey: You remember?
Line 437	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. We used to have good dances there.
Line 438	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then later on, We,
Line 439	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Don't usual have some, We decided,
Line 440	Epigmenio J. Rosales: People like to celebrate on the 16th September, 5th of May, you know, and, Tony Rogers was, main one. He was. Well, he's, well, pretty well educated, you know, he knew how to talk, and he knows how to talk. So he was the main one to get the people organized here. So then, him and I, we got together, and they.
Line 441	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then he like a we didn't have an a membership here. No membership to collect money, no membership, you know. So so we said, well, we could do it one way. Somebody go out with the people, collect money, whatever they want. I give you $0.50, $0.25 or whatever they want to give. And then we would form, programs and, for their celebration, you know, we had dancers and stuff like that, and, groups like that, you know, so.
Line 442	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So, Tony. And then don't guess it was ... and I got together and, Tony Haskell were. We were very, very close. We could, I had my guitar, so we used to go together, you know, the three of us. We used to go to play the Blackfoot around with the Mexican people. There was a lot of Mexicans over there.
Line 443	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, sir. And understand all that people down there, and, they donated a good to ten, $15 of them. $5. They were good. You know, I think to have a good celebration, they we don't have to have a no membership. And we just have to go over there and just, well, whatever you like to donate for the celebration.
Line 444	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So that's we made that money and, compressors and so I'm, I'm doing a score and, I was going to get a car.
Line 445	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we got the money, and then we got our meetings and we got our meetings for. And we figured how much we wanted to have collected, and then we figured out how much we were going to spend for customs and all that. So, so we will, you know, so there will be no money left because we didn't we didn't in tend to have money for ourself.
Line 446	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We just want to have a program. And it was so good because I enjoy being with that. Mr. Robertson, this is Escobar because he killed himself, committed suicide. I think he had cancer.
Line 447	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh.
Line 448	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. He killed himself there in front of the church around there somewhere. I don't know why. He later, you know, later, he was with people.
Line 449	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Who? And then.
Line 450	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah. Well, I'm like a mother. Vicky. Yeah, well, I got acquainted with him, too, because, you know, the, you know, the local mother, you talk about, Walsenburg or somewhere.
Line 451	Unknown Speaker: Yeah. Well, and they she know my mother.
Line 452	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then she knew your mother. Yeah.
Line 453	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Mom that we knew and Michael Mosley, Vicki and, Man, who? They were not married yet. That was before they got married. Somebody else here, like a father.
Line 454	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And they work on the railroad too, in their own house.
Line 455	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then I, I knew Tony Gonzalez and his sister Gonzalez and Morelos, all, all the families there and daughter's Tony Torez she was married to another lady before marrying Monica. Yeah. My that they used to go to California to that and they, they like to have a new store business. And the store they had of the store here took it for a long time.
Line 456	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. They were selling groceries, you know, small business to. Yeah.
Line 457	Angela Luckey: Do you does your family have any traditions that they do that are Mexican?
Line 458	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Like, how is that,
Line 459	Angela Luckey: Not this.
Line 460	Unknown Speaker: Big. That's not like for Christmas or birthdays. No. Your mother of the only thing they ever done was my my service for Christmas. She didn't make a lot of tamales. Oh. When they come around, she don't. They never left her home without,
Line 461	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh. She used to make turkeys to be drunk. Those who.
Line 462	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Full knowledge. But everybody.
Line 463	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Kind of. She done that.
Line 464	Angela Luckey: And your mother did.
Line 465	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah.
Line 466	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. She's. Anybody come to the house during that time. Went on with the.
Line 467	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Very.
Line 468	Unknown Speaker: Like a sack of tamales.
Line 469	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Or. And the first ones fed were the little kids. Little kids first.
Line 470	Unknown Speaker: Your grandma was good. Everybody was like that. But that was. That's what she was, you know, the old way. You know. Anybody come to her? Yeah.
Line 471	Angela Luckey: Did she grind her own corn?
Line 472	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No. No, she been here, so.
Line 473	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know what she did.
Line 474	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So I don't know. I like to.
Line 475	Unknown Speaker: Know that that her. She smart. She had the grinder. She had a grinder. Grinder.
Line 476	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Grinder.
Line 477	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, yeah. Good luck. I mean, has it kept it.
Line 478	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, she did she still got it. Yeah. Yeah. So to implement.
Line 479	Epigmenio J. Rosales: A system.
Line 480	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then she used to make enchilads tambien. Yeah. And right there work to live is now a big yard there.
Line 481	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's where their house.
Line 482	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Where they live.
Line 483	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's where they live.
Line 484	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Now anybody that we know and went over there to visit. Oh come on this is home to eat right. Quit.
Line 485	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But the tradition. So I don't know of them having a you know what a tradition I don't I.
Line 486	Angela Luckey: Quinceañeras?
Line 487	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh.
Line 488	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know.
Line 489	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No, no. My source of course.
Line 490	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yes. My brother. No.
Line 491	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That's all she had was the two boys.
Line 492	Epigmenio J. Rosales: My brother, he's.
Line 493	Angela Luckey: You know, him? Butcher.
Line 494	Epigmenio J. Rosales: My brother. Yeah. He's, he's the reason I'm here. And look at him. Because he was. He. Come on. You come to Pocatello. Every you you get a good feed benefits here. So.
Line 495	Angela Luckey: Okay, so you stay here just because as a job in your family.
Line 496	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Okay? Yeah, I was up.
Line 497	Angela Luckey: You stayed. Why did you stay here?
Line 498	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, I have a job.
Line 499	Epigmenio J. Rosales: A job in this, folks.
Line 500	Epigmenio J. Rosales: What are you and my folks were here, and my brother. And then I start making friends with everybody around here. Oh, one time I competed real for them. One time we went to a dance over here to 30, 30 club one time.
Line 501	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I can't do it. I tell them that.
Line 502	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, yeah, they were discriminating a lot of people. You know, we went to this, they had a band from somewhere that come in to play for the 3030 club.
Line 503	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Was a big club.
Line 504	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So yeah, 30, 30 club, I don't know, the building might still be there or not, I don't know, but still there. Anyway, we went, my complaint. I said, how are you there? You haven't got some good music over there coming in from somewhere. Why don't we go there and see what it sounds like? I am a preacher, and she used to make the money doing it, you know?
Line 505	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. Then we got all dressed up for this occasion. Go over there.
Line 506	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, yeah, I had my brother had a necktie and he was well dressed. He was well dressed, you know, and, that was ahead of my father and my and my family and my her and I were ahead, and I thought it was just going to work right in there, you know? And then there were somebody on the, on the door with, open on the door and then with an opening says, no Mexicans allowed.
Line 507	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That took me by surprise. There. No Mexicans allowed. And I was very like, well, sorry, you're not allowed. No Mexicans. Okay, so I was ready to take off. And then, like, Father God, I had, you know, just he seen who it was, I knew who. What tomorrow. You know, Mexicans are, what I think I am.
Line 508	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, real. Come on. Yeah. No, no. That's okay. You can come. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know you was with them. So we went and, Yeah. You got to be covering church culture.
Line 509	Epigmenio J. Rosales: For that special music. Yeah. They had special music there. And, no, there wasn't going to let us in because we were Mexicans.
Line 510	Epigmenio J. Rosales: See, I didn't know a lot about this because I wasn't like, there wasn't, you know, I was with Michael. Modern day. Yeah, I had I got my eyes.
Line 511	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I, you know, was going to pay for that.
Line 512	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. Yeah. That was a good night.
Line 513	Epigmenio J. Rosales: For,
Line 514	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Until afterwards. Okay.
Line 515	Epigmenio J. Rosales: So we went in there and we were the only Mexicans there. Nobody else went. Yeah. And then there was. I know the theater down on this center there. I don't know what the name of the theater. Rialto.
Line 516	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah. New center.
Line 517	Unknown Speaker: You said that that was the Rialto here.
Line 518	Epigmenio J. Rosales: All right.
Line 519	Angela Luckey: Oh. What, they sent you here?
Line 520	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. They said through the Mexicans from the, white people. The Indians and the black people. The Mexicans away from the others. The white Lewis clippers. I didn't go to that movie no more.
Line 521	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We didn't go to the movies.
Line 522	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I didn't care for it anyway.
Line 523	Unknown Speaker: But they did. I remember how they did finish the set, but I didn't know why I was dumb. I didn't know what they were doing.
Line 524	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 525	Unknown Speaker: We were separate. But I did notice that, you know, that people. But I didn't know why I. You never, never dawned on me.
Line 526	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then Tony realized he got, he got he got he got, the other theater. He was in charge of it. Yeah. I mean, I mean.
Line 527	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Or he took over that audition. Everybody went over there, you know, to the movies.
Line 528	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Tony Roberts had Mexican movie. Yeah.
Line 529	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Mexican movies. The. Yeah. And, when we was, and, 16th of September when they had programs, you know, there was, I used to be in the programs one time, my calling, my daughter, I was, I could play piano them two hours.
Line 530	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Because they didn't play the piano. Bam. No, I couldn't play the piano.
Line 531	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But I was already well acquainted with the piano because, that's not what I wanted to do when I was at home in the morning. I wouldn't even eat breakfast before going to work. I was on the keyboard right there.
Line 532	Angela Luckey: Take them out. Really?
Line 533	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 534	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Get his lunch, paper his hand and throw him out the door.
Line 535	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, sure.
Line 536	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Used to go on time. Yeah.
Line 537	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You're going to be late for work. And, when I was young, I hate to leave the piano. Well, okay. Okay. So I took a. Yeah. Anyway, Michael and I was in the program one time. She played a piano, and I played that. Marcia. Marcia. So tennis.
Line 538	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And get it. Yeah, I was playing the guitar, and she was playing the piano, and we was on that program. And then, one time Joe Garcia. Yeah, Joe Garcia and George, your brother. He used to play the accordion, and we used to get together him. Joe, Joe and.
Line 539	Epigmenio J. Rosales: George. We used to practice, and, he used to play the accordion. We was in the program one time. Oh. One time we was, I don't know where where the dance was across town was Memorial, I guess. I don't know.
Line 540	Unknown Speaker: I didn't go to a lot of the stuff anyway. So we spent.
Line 541	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Anyway, we was on the, the somebody hired this other group, I don't know who was in charge of hiring the music, so. And they were, American Western music. You know, I think that's what it was. Was. So they hired his worth of music to play for the 16. So took. And then, they were playing, and then when they took intermission, then we come on the program.
Line 542	Epigmenio J. Rosales: George with his accordion, me with a guitar and, George and there was two other guys from Aberdeen that come around to, I don't know what, I'm play the guitar to it. So there was no, no 4 or 5 of us there after that. Then they went to turn us loose. They said, hey, we want you there to play better, but oh no can do it.
Line 543	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. You know, they were we were not, who were not we were not hired to play. So they were already hard. So we couldn't just take over. But they they didn't want to turn there. You weren't. You got to play there. You. But other than. Anyway, we'd done good. And. Oh Joe. He's he's he's a he's good.
Line 544	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We always get along good music and and friend who's a good friend. Well, we should get a we, we always enjoy our friendship.
Line 545	Unknown Speaker: Johnny was in that program.
Line 546	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah.
Line 547	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Heating element, Mexican hot dancing. That's really nice. Yeah. Johnny. You know Johnny, my son used to.
Line 548	Angela Luckey: Dance with Eleanor.
Line 549	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I they were little kids there.
Line 550	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I have, I know, small. Yeah.
Line 551	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, I mean, just fine, you know, so this Johnson, this white.
Line 552	Angela Luckey: Haired girl that is his mother.
Line 553	Epigmenio J. Rosales: His mother. She used to. She's the one that.
Line 554	Epigmenio J. Rosales: To dance, you know, right up until they were in the program.
Line 555	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They were good, too. I mean, they had some really dressed up, you know?
Line 556	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. When I had to. From Beverly to.
Line 557	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I, you know, there was a no picture.
Line 558	Epigmenio J. Rosales: I don't know.
Line 559	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Helen or John Dancer, I don't know, but you. There was just little kids and. It was nice. I enjoy.
Line 560	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That. Used to have a lot of nice things. And at that time the people got together and done something, you know, now they don't do nothing. Nothing stuff. But then they should have programs. Yeah, we do Mexican dances and all that. Now they don't. Yeah. I don't know.
Line 561	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Know we're here at, this, all over here. What you call it, this hall over here, the skating rink.
Line 562	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Earlier we played there, a lot of a lot of time.
Line 563	Epigmenio J. Rosales: On the Mexican program.
Line 564	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 565	Epigmenio J. Rosales: That, program there and there at the Memorial Hall.
Line 566	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah.
Line 567	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Memorial building, things that relate to each and everything. It's nice.
Line 568	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. We used to have gatherings, families, gatherings, composers. ...
Line 569	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Actually, that's our.
Line 570	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Shoot that Michael come by a little bit, too. I used to go over there. We used to go over there and visit, and then they bought a piano. I don't know if you're going to take piano music.
Line 571	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You're a morning person anyway.
Line 572	Epigmenio J. Rosales: No ceremonials. No. Not thing that.
Line 573	Epigmenio J. Rosales: The piano and,
Line 574	Angela Luckey: The Beatles. Her grandfather and her mother's father.
Line 575	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah, I'm a bit of a grandpa. Yeah.
Line 576	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Capital was Ramona's grandpa.
Line 577	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Oh, yeah. That's my mother, Vicky. Yeah, yeah, that's very grandpa. My grandma. Well, they had a piano downstairs, so I don't know who was going or.
Line 578	Epigmenio J. Rosales: The point I was going to play. And and, you know, I don't think she ever.
Line 579	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then, they but, Yeah. And then they, but of a violin for a month, I guess was Ramona for somebody. I guess, the Mingo had, two. I listen, they sold it. He sold it to them to watch it, to learn how to play a violin, to. But I don't know. She keep that up or not?
Line 580	Epigmenio J. Rosales: ...
Line 581	Epigmenio J. Rosales: You know, it's been good.
Line 582	Epigmenio J. Rosales: They run on the farm, I think.
Line 583	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Well, I like the farm because I just. It's supposed to be healthy for you or the farm, but it's not. I thought it was. You know why?
Line 584	Angela Luckey: Why?
Line 585	Epigmenio J. Rosales: It's all right to be out there. But, you know, the threshing machines were. You thresh wheat and all that stuff, oats and all that stuff. And some farmers got a lot of that stuff, you know? And when you know, where you're threshing all that stuff, a lot of that just gets in your lungs. It's no good for you.
Line 586	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And then when you're in the cellars, circuit potatoes, you know, some old sacks, you know, they just throw them in. You'll like a lot of that. Of that comes to your lungs. It's no good for you either. It's a come on.
Line 587	Unknown Speaker: That you worked over here within that machine.
Line 588	Epigmenio J. Rosales: What about the farm?
Line 589	Epigmenio J. Rosales: In those conditions. But I didn't know that because I went down to the split cellars. You know, the trucks come in there, and then they'd come through a tractor down, on the ground there.
Line 590	Epigmenio J. Rosales: There's additional flying all over. It's not clear. No, really.
Line 591	Epigmenio J. Rosales: We'll come right back to when you did you time when you worked and you fell off of the train up. The thing about working on the diesels, on the machines. I mean, over.
Line 592	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Here on the railroad.
Line 593	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Never. Never that when that this was this was start coming.
Line 594	Unknown Speaker: And he tried to tell me that he doesn't have that problem because I know it is because that building got it worse. And he has industrial and industrial. Bronchitis. That's what they think he has.
Line 595	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Yeah. That's just what the world that it was.
Line 596	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But the farm to that has nothing to do. Yeah, but because all of the dry stuff gets.
Line 597	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Don't work very much like this, you know, more, that this place over in this in your looks. And they've done a lot of that and that threshing machine that they worked a lot on those. Potatoes. Stack them up, stack them up, put them on the trucks. Take them out.
Line 598	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Know we're here on the railroad. When they when they start bringing those diesel units, you know, the outside was all right, but, when they, they built this other new this chapel right here, monitor. They called it monitor. That was before I retired the 70. They had it all covered up, you know, real nice inside.
Line 599	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Real big long. It's all covered up that first year.
Line 600	Epigmenio J. Rosales: But when, you know, of course, I was a helper there. You know, I had to take care of the diesel units, send them, send them, and then water that and then. No, not not no, I was just a sender. I just send them that. I helped a hustler, you know, move them around. We bring a set of units.
Line 601	Epigmenio J. Rosales: Negative. Or maybe six units. That's that's a bring them in run house there over here. And then, then I have to check on the sand boxes. And that had the hoses hanging from over there. And the sand boxes are right, right, right where the smokestack is. Right there. All the smoke come out and the sand boxes right there.
Line 602	Epigmenio J. Rosales: And I had to climb over there, put the hose on that sandbox, and the dust from the from the sand come up. And not only that, some of those, diesel units blowing that smoke, blowing my ears.

Salazar, Jesuscita Quintana

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Line 1	Patricia McDaniel: My name is Patricia McDaniel. Today, I'll be interviewing Jesusito Salazar of Emmitt, Idaho. Today's date is March 19, 1991. Okay, let's talk. Let's start with your name. And what's your name?
Line 2	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Jesusita, my dad's name? Yes. Jesúcita Quintana. Very good. And married. And after Married? Jesús Salazar. Yes, yes.
Line 3	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Okay, Mrs. Salazar. Let's start with this: How did you come to Europe? What was the decision to come here? Do you live? Here? Where do you live? Here? Is this where you live now? In Emet, Idaho.
Line 4	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But he said the same thing. The ranch where he was shipwrecked was Hogar, and we came here. My husband soon took up residence—not very soon, but it almost didn't take long to find a job with a rancher here. What year was it? What? What year or what year was it? Yes. 1938, Mom. 38. 38. Well, I was 32. Before that.
Line 5	Patricia McDaniel: So they came thinking that life here in Idaho was going to be better than the new life in Mexico. Hey. And it was better. And it was better. Hey. And how was it better? How was it different from life in New Mexico? What was the difference? My husband got a job with the ranchers.
Line 6	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I also worked with the ranchers. I worked digging in the twenties, in the piquen pastures. Here in Idaho, here in. And that's how we lived, eh. They both worked in the summer. And it was better than life in New Mexico. I mean, in Colorado there was a lot more, because back in Colorado my husband had to go far away to work to make a living.
Line 7	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I was left alone with my in-laws, my dad and mom, and my children were very good to me. Mhm, very good, and they loved me very much. And when my husband went to work, he told me to study with them. What did they think, the in-laws, when you decided to move from Colorado to fly or what? What did they think? Well, well, they thought it would be good for you to go.
Line 8	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They sought us out, guided. It was very hard for them to live better when we moved far away, but they allowed what I didn't have yet. Well, they could. My husband could get a better job. Dad and Mom remember the place my uncle had when we first came. Well, he lived there at the Bean, at the Garcias' place. Tell me about it, what it was like when you arrived, how you came to Colorado, in a car.
Line 9	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : We came, well, in a car. You saw a car in the sea, or maybe in a sea, or something like, who came? You, your husband, and I came, and my husband, and he says he doesn't remember he was in the military. And a trailer. Mom, you're so embarrassed to unload all the things, he brings part of his daily needs.
Line 10	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I did it at night. After we finished downstairs, we walked day and night to get there and far. Mhm. How long did the trip take? Like. How can you say two days? Two days of day and night. And they traveled day and night without stopping. Very well. We happened to not stop here. My uncle José, María, the brother, the day.
Line 11	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And there we stopped. My brother lived there today, my friend's brother. And there we stopped for the night. Mhm. For one night. And then from there they came, after two days we left for here and... And tell me a little about how you lived when you arrived here in the house and where the house was. What was the one here like?
Line 12	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : My husband's brother had a place, he had it divided into four parts, like ten acres of land. You said the first one had very little. He did. That was the two-story house and the two-story house. Mhm. Here in. Here. Really? Uh-huh. Yeah, he had a two-story house. That's where it was. And we lived there until it was a two-story house.
Line 13	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : So far, my husband. Your job. Well, moving us to our place. What? He did it? My uncle bought us. Another place. And that's where. Well, where they made the move. Well, you know, he bought more land? Yes, or in the same place. They had the house, but they grabbed it. He didn't have one, but he didn't have one. Thank you. We didn't have one. We didn't have the place. Remember there was no house?
Line 14	Patricia McDaniel: There wasn't a house? No. And where? Where? Where did you live? Well, in. In the case of. In his house. In his house, Mine, My brother-in-law's. And you? How do I know when you're already a newcomer? How is it that. How did you feel? Oh, I felt very sad. I didn't feel very well, because "If I love you," I lectured a lot.
Line 15	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: All of that because he had brought me here where I didn't know anyone, and my husband. Well, we have to make a living, work wherever I can. In San Luis, where we lived, there was no work. Look, we have to stay here. How long did the sadness last? Oh, quite a while. I don't remember. But until my children were grown, then with my brothers-in-law and all that, I met more people, more people.And I said, "I'm playing at being in the place.
Line 16	Patricia McDaniel: But it lasted, for example, a few years or a few months. It's still been another year, one or two years since I got better. Mhm. And what about Maria and the children who came? Maria and And who? Who else? And me, the one son and the having were the first ones that Lucas didn't come with us.
Line 17	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: A nephew, a nephew from cities, and also Maria and Maria's. This little girl had others. She was 4 years old, Maria was 4, and they remember what it was like for them, when they didn't get used to life here very well or very easily, or like, well, when we arrived we liked it, and my brothers-in-law and nephews are also with us.
Line 18	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : My brother-in-law is the boss. His husband had a house, a Seat made of a wooden frame, and we lived there out of necessity. They made this one for us, so we could take care of ourselves from the start. I remember they made this one and they went to live in a magazine back in the summer of '20. Mhm. Yes, uh, please explain what it was like, what it's like.
Line 19	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah, well, like. Well, no more standing boards, standing boards, and I had the P on the outside, man, the shepherd in the wind. And what about winter? In winter, it's not very cold, but we got by. Mhm. There was a wood stove, the stove was there to burn wood. Aha. And Mom remembers there was no electricity?
Line 20	Patricia McDaniel: No, there was water. No, milk and and And what did they use for light? Well, lamps like this one I have there. I have an oil lamp. Oil. Aha. Mhm. And that water they made for the water. Well, water. They had a noria. The noria, since they made it one in a noria. No, they made it a noria.
Line 21	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Mhm. And how long did you live like this where we live today? As I remember, we lived there for about two years. Two or three years. What about? Well, it didn't happen that I was in. In the. When I went to school for three years. And then we moved. I was like five years old, well, in this little house with my mom and it was three-quarters, do you remember?
Line 22	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I mean, it wasn't 3/4 the 4th where this one of you and dad lived, already on the shore of the shore and then the one in the middle had two beds and I slept in one and and me and him and in the other, In the other and then in the. The, the is where one entered was the kitchen and and well where one got together had that mentality, I mean, was hungry and.
Line 23	Patricia McDaniel: And you liked it. The little house was just right. Are you happy because you're with my husband? Mhm. Eh, we never leave each other's sides, and I could be happy where he was. I didn't like the place very much. At first, I saw that he started working and was grabbing money to be able to live better. Well, I'd like it, Mom, and he remembers the bedbugs, huh?
Line 24	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Or I go to the board house that had nothing but the board. There were many kisses. Whatever it was, it was very poor firewood that I no longer know.
Line 25	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: You can sit up in bed despite the bedbugs. You can sleep at night. And I remember. I remember when I was so little and remembering it during the night and my mom was up killing people so they wouldn't come to bed, no. And that's how it was. Okay, it was cheaper than I could have imagined, even though it was of poor quality, but it was a lot of work those first few years.
Line 26	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But I remember Mom using jugs and pouring kerosene, and yes, I have jugs and putting the parts of the bed, so I wouldn't get bedbugs in the bed, there are many jobs, but how did Mom wash clothes, clothes? And also, since the laundry room already had a machine, no, no, like this, like this. The hand pulled the water.
Line 27	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Girlfriends from the canal, and they were already heating up in a line and using ballast water. At that point, the clothes were missing; I don't even remember that. I had a laundry room, and I remember it had its heaters. Big one, to heat the water, and they heated it at home in one of the food.
Line 28	Patricia McDaniel: Where? Where? Where do I buy? And the food? Well, back then, there was a store for sale, there was a refrigerator. If I hadn't gotten into benzo, there was, and I had to live like this and like and like to buy. Or they would go out with Mom and they would go shopping with him. Sometimes, let's say, a full beating, but more than enough.
Line 29	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Los Teques used to come to town all the time because they had a car, or their uncle, the king, had one. It's an automobile. Nemesio wasn't the king here, he already had one of those cars with a lower top and what kind of food are they? You see? Two of them ate it. Well, plus what their dad ate and because they did make a mark there at a dance and that's it.
Line 30	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And more than that, well, if you know more, the better. Yes, and but it was like the food they ate in San Luis or different. Well, that time most people eat that, dad, and wow, that 21 Yes, yes, yes, yes, that happened. We still can't, the meals could compete, and when you came down or came here to Mera to buy it, the food came alone or not at all. I couldn't go alone because I couldn't speak English.
Line 31	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : That's why I didn't understand a word. I didn't know how to ask for things, but it helped him. But these people here almost always had someone who spoke Spanish, so there was one. It was that one, a Mexican like me who didn't understand English. Send him, sir, to treat me so that those who didn't have it would have the María Teresa. María, but she was the only one who didn't have one.
Line 32	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Well, she, she, and. And there were times when there were a lot of people who didn't speak English, María Teresa had another one and she helped her. Yeah, but no, no, no, the grocery store. Well, there was no one. No, not the grocery store, but there was some Spanish speaking people on the sixth floor, well, there were always Spanish people. There are some who speak Spanish and...
Line 33	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And they helped them. I know. We were talking about. About the way that. How did they buy the food? Well, uh. It was good. María Teresa is the lady. I still remember that María Teresa. Well, she always had someone who understood English and Spanish and she interpreted for me when I wanted, like María Teresa told me. Because this lady can understand why.
Line 34	Patricia McDaniel: And I didn't understand that, but they were Basques, she was, she was Basque like that. But she didn't want to speak Spanish, she wasn't Mexican. No, she wasn't anything more, she was Basque, and she helped everyone, the Spanish speakers, and we who couldn't speak English, but not as much. But I think she was the only family.
Line 35	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Mom, eh, don't you think we were the only family we had when we first arrived? And in the first place, that's because we didn't know many Mexicans, except for María Teresa. She was Basque, and she spoke Spanish, but we didn't know any other Mexican-American family. Do you remember others? There were some families like that, well, there would have been, I think, but I don't, I'm not going to tell you.
Line 36	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: I knew her, but we knew there were two Mexican families. Okay, Mom. One summer, when we were still living with my uncle, a family came for the summer and lived there, uh, there, where this bridge is, living off my uncle to get them out. And they were Mexican migrants, I think, because they only worked for the summer, nothing more. This is the only family I remember. I don't remember their non-Spanish names anymore.
Line 37	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: So, at first, when you arrived here, you were the only Spanish speaker here, except for María Teresa. Around there, close to where we were, I was told I could speak Spanish better than the others. Yes, and everyone who spoke Spanish here, from the Basque Country, Barranquilla, and then from our America, spoke a very different Spanish than my Spanish.
Line 38	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar or Patricia McDaniel: My Basque too. Yes, many people didn't understand, and I learned how to speak Spanish even more. I arrived. They didn't understand each other any better there. Initials: Mhm-mhm. But we didn't have much trouble, we struggled, but we lived well. I'm going to ask you one more thing about the people here. Then we'll move on to something else. Do you remember when the Mexicans came to live here?
Line 39	Patricia McDaniel: How many years passed before they arrived? Mhm. When others started arriving, because around the two or three years since more Mexican people started arriving, but they weren't men, they came to work on the ranches. More, more, better. A life and women, no, not women, until many times, two or three times their wives came and here she is, when the place where you knew her already knew and she felt better with them, already with uy as there was that, surely they spoke Spanish.
Line 40	Patricia McDaniel: Mhm, no, back then, when I started meeting people, families who came from other places that spoke Spanish, I was very, very happy because I could talk and thus have a better life. Mhm. Let's talk a little about the children's lives, about you, about Mary and Joseph, and how they did. As it's always a bit difficult for adults to get used to, it's a little harder to get used to.
Line 41	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But what was life like for them after they arrived? How did they get used to everything? First, it was the fact that Maria didn't have to be married, for seven years, but... But I wanted to know when we came here. Like how we got along when we weren't together, when we came here to Idaho with Huelva. We got along here more or less slowly, and I worked for the children.
Line 42	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Well, Maria, you already saw the ones we had. And he, I had. I had several as a baby, we had a good life. We had, we lived on a ranch, we had plenty of milk and and And how were the children? Happy or with or alone or not. And their friends? He had friends or or. And he like. And who was it? There were friends. There was family whose names I don't know.
Line 43	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: The neighbors I had. Well, I remember Dani Oscar, she was a friend of his. I've had some other surnames, I don't remember, but there were Mexican families. No, no, Mexican. Mom didn't, here no, here no one knew Mexican. All the children of the King and Queen had a Mexican who worked for them and had a little one. Okay, if not.
Line 44	Patricia McDaniel: We had a good life, and the children started school. When you arrived from Colorado, they started school here, and... And how about that? What's it like? How did they do? Well, they did well because the children learned very quickly and did well in school, and they had no difficulties with the language.
Line 45	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : No? Hey, Maria. Maria! And her. Well, it wasn't me, it was me. She helped me a lot, but I don't know if I also went through school, because remember, he didn't finish. No, no, he didn't finish school. No, he didn't like school. And because he liked to work more, he liked to walk with and in the files, working with the machines.
Line 46	Patricia McDaniel: And so, you like school. And how come? And why didn't he? Why didn't he like school? Who knows? We didn't know why. I wanted to get him into school because he was very, very smart. Very clever. But he said he didn't like school, that he didn't. This school. Huh? The thing is, Mom, I remember he started school in Colorado.
Line 47	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : He went to school in Colorado for a year. Do you remember? You knew about it, right? He also liked ice cream. He started school in Colorado, and she's talked about that, about the discrimination there in Colorado. The square, and well, to pretend that it wasn't a good school, that they already went to a school, that not many Mexicans went there, and they told me that the Mexican kids didn't like them because they were Spanish Americans and didn't want to go to school, but that they did, so they had to have it, and...
Line 48	Patricia McDaniel: And here, the children encountered discrimination, right? Here in M, at first, but after they started to grow, when they understood English, they started to do better. Mhm. But while they couldn't learn anything, it was very hard for them to meet with doctors too. That's right. At first, when I was going, it was hard for them, and very soon they didn't have much time to live well.
Line 49	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Me and having a job and friends. My American friends, and their American friends, came to or stayed at the house, and their children too. To this day, we still have that experience at MHM. I also worked a lot. I also went to work on weekends, just like with the men, with my husband, and the products you work with, right?
Line 50	Patricia McDaniel: Tell me a little about your job. What did you do at the movies? It wasn't hard, but it was working with potatoes, fishing, or just digging beans. All of that, and the owner paid you, and he paid you. Right. And when you were working, what happened? The children, wherever they were, would leave the house with you, well, with the older ones and the younger ones, and we had a good time.
Line 51	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Do you remember, Mom, when we were at my uncle's ranch, and then later when I took control, the ranch where we all went out, at the end, we took everything and everyone went to work, everyone went out and everyone earned money, or just the adults? When we were in our place? No, not in our place, but harvested, they worked, they helped raise the plants, and if they had a good harvest, they had a garden, you had a potato, you planted flowers.
Line 52	Patricia McDaniel: Whether I already have it. Very well.
Line 53	Patricia McDaniel: They didn't go hungry. Enough. And this too. Enough clothes for the winter, and it's enough to leave her the clothes I wore. Mom, tell her the clothes I wore. Until I started high school. I gave away clothes, clothes I gave you. Yes. And people from here. That they gave her the la. Oh, oh. She was the boss's daughter.
Line 54	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Because he works, Dad. And the last one because he worked before. Since it's equivalent to clothes, Mom, a flowerpot here, there in clothes, clothes like this, like this, well. Well, it was very big, but I made it small for her. Yeah. And she would cut it and complain to her. I remember that you. You made me one of a friend of yours who was about.
Line 55	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : A family we met through my uncle when we first came here made me a unique outfit, a school-starting outfit. The first day of that one. The only outfit I remember was this new one I had almost the whole time I was going to school. Right, Mom? It's true. It's true. Then I wore all the old outfits my friends gave me.
Line 56	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : They gave me clothes for the kids, and I made them, and the only ones who gave us jeans. That happened. And so we had a hard time. But we lived day by day. Yes, yes, they lived very well. Well, no, not Trevor, more like the people were very good to us. All the teachers at school too. Very good. And they treated the girls well, La María, and let's see, those who went to school, eh?
Line 57	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: My self. He didn't help much because school wasn't there. He liked to work, and we made him go to school because he did, but he didn't learn because he didn't like it, he liked to work. And things happened to him. Mhm. Very well. And when you had to go to school to have conferences with the children's teachers, huh?
Line 58	Patricia McDaniel: How are you? How do we see it? A lot of work. Because I had to look out here with me. I go to María Albert and they learned English, they understood, and they helped me. Sometimes, and other times, I had other ladies, friends of mine, who went with me to translate because I wanted to. When I started school. Mom, I remember that it came to me.
Line 59	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, because you didn't speak English, not before. I know. Those. And when these children started school, you continued living at the Bench. It's been a while. How long? How many years did you spend there at the Bench, living at the Bench? When we were there for like five years, four or five years? No, in the summer. Well, we moved from here to my uncle and the ranch that my idea bought, but it was still at the Bench, and you were there for years and years after that place, and here in Emet, you moved here in 1965, and your husband bought some land.
Line 60	Patricia McDaniel: For, for, uh, a piece of land to live on. We don't have land with our families. But. And did you plant, did you plant anything? One, one had I don't know how many here, 80, 80 here. Mhm. And what crop? Beans and corn and all those beets, Mom. Beets and potato things and all that. And then the the. And how did you sell those things?
Line 61	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I started living with people. I didn't understand. I couldn't speak English, but I understood a little of what they were saying to me. And that's how it was. I started living, yes, but the harvest from the land. Did they sell it, did they sell it to some locals, or did they sell it as they could? Some people sometimes had to take it to the market instead of the land. Why didn't they sell the beets to the company like that?
Line 62	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Why does the sugar company have to take them? Okay, and at one time they had a corn packing plant around here, right? They already had this corn and potatoes here, and I don't remember where the porters lived. Now they didn't send them to different places because I brought soil to sell in the stores. And so her husband sold everything and then with the money he continued or returned home to live there.
Line 63	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : And during the winter, they kept the cows for milk. That's what he did. First, he also sold me the cows' milk. Did he sell milk? To whom? To whom? Yes, it came to the company. The company? Yeah? A company buys the milk. It came in the truck with cans. I mean, no, because the milk. It comes. That's how they lived. Just as we lived with the cows, we lived only with pure milk.
Line 64	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Because there was no more work. And they lived. And this. With this, there was enough money. With that, there was enough because they paid for the milk. Instead of giving a check twice a month to pay for the milk and having to spend the rest of the food making the milk that was for the rest of the food, they had the milk we sold, the company told Mom about when they bought what, how it happened, when they bought our 80 acres?
Line 65	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Well, the Sugar Company. No, not when they bought the 80s. When they bought the ranch. When we bought. Do you remember that you... You told me that... That you made an application. But they didn't... No, they didn't want to take the application until they bought the ranch. It wasn't until they talked to this guy. A man who worked for the company for the f, f h.
Line 66	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: If the F then went to talk to the FH, then and once soon they called him to go fill out the paperwork, but they didn't reject it. The the the first the first. And then what did they tell him? They told him And why? Because he wasn't from. From. He wasn't from here. He wasn't from here.
Line 67	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : And they couldn't leave him. And I said, "Well, yes, sir. The papers that say you were born here in the United States." Yes. And then what? Did this Mr. Edward tell you to do something else? The one who didn't tell you to get letters of recommendation. From. Who? From the East. What did you do? From where you had worked in Colorado, right? Yeah.
Line 68	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And he wrote to her there and they sent him some letters. And before that, the recommendation and vacation. Yeah. Right. Master Anderson. And Mr. Walker. And on Friday, and she, the bear, who, honestly, no, and it seems to me that this one, three real letters, already from three of the ones where I worked, from the ranchers, where I had worked.
Line 69	Patricia McDaniel: But. But this was a time when they were almost giving away the land, and her husband had to do quite a bit to get the land. And who owned the land before. Before her husband? Well, this was him. Do you remember? Mom was. The one who had the ranch who bought half, and he wasn't the one, and by the due date, he was already due.
Line 70	Patricia McDaniel: And so, after a while and these three letters of recommendation, he was finally able to. Then he was able to buy the land. Mhm. And then the purchase. And then? And he bought it from the government. Well, the government owned it, and he sold it to them, and he made payments every year, right? Every day was one. It was one. He was 40 years old, right? To pay it off, pay it off, and all that.
Line 71	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Yes, yes, yes. And do you remember, Mom, that house that didn't have a house? No, it didn't have water, it didn't have a house, it had a house, it had a house on the land inside. It was like the house that was left, that belonged to El Rey's sister. No, no, no, the house that was there in the 80s. It was the house that was compromised, which was the one that was there.
Line 72	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : So, him. Do you remember what that house was like? Mom didn't have water inside anymore. We had to bail out. She had a toilet inside. She didn't have one. She didn't have one. We had to make one outside to keep it inside. And we didn't wash during the winter. Very cold. Very cold house, very cold. And we, and we, and we got burned during the summer, right?
Line 73	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Yeah. And how many years did they stay there? Did they live there? I don't remember how many years, but it didn't take long for my husband to build a house.
Line 74	Patricia McDaniel: And I was 14 years old, and 12 years old. But in the end, little by little, we started to get up, and they stayed in the same house. There are some elderly people, but they moved them so they'd do better. No, no, no, no, it's not, eh. They raised money to build a new house in the neighborhood. Someone would like a house. And they did build us a house.
Line 75	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Fr. I think. Well, he didn't make me a contract with some carpenters who came out, built this house, and built the house. Mom, the house wasn't the house they didn't make a new house, and that house had everything. It already had everything, all the water and the grandmother. And how did you feel in a house?
Line 76	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: I could already see myself. I felt good. After we started, little by little, and the house? The new house? You really liked the house, right? Oh, you already had a very good house. It's still good, that house is still open in the summer. We already sold the place. Yes, yes. It happens that the place sells. There's the house. And when did you sell it or when did you sell that house?
Line 77	Patricia McDaniel: And the land? What did he do? Well, he'll tell me later. When he retired, he always worked a little. Not much. But in the summer he always works. I'm coming back. I don't work for the school, Mom. He wrote "school." Okay? What did F work on?
Line 78	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : No, Mom. After he retired. When he... When they left the ranch and came here to the plaza. Do you remember that he worked for the schools? He brought food to the schools he built. He told me. You already know what he told me. He was already taking the people from the A to work, to the east of the fields, they had fields for the Sugar Company and all the workers, and he and he would pull the workers and take them to work in the Chiles.
Line 79	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They paid him for that, right? Did that raise awareness? Yes, yes, yes. And then there was work in schools, schools, and so on, because many people knew him, because he went to every school, and he brought food. Well, he brings food to his school, and the food, just like he brought food. He was very smart. He always made us work, and he could do everything because he understood a little English, not much, but he learned well.
Line 80	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : He knew how to read and all that, and he was very lucky. He didn't learn. He says. Mom, no, he also worked, retired, one summer when he didn't work for the corn packing company. Yeah, eh. Remember when he was working on that corn mixing machine and he hurt his hand? A few days ago, a strong hand put it in the machine and it broke.
Line 81	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : The machine got jammed, and he tried to clean it, but he got carried away. Are you working nights? No, Mom. He already worked nights. Nights. He's retired now, and he should have been here in his prime. I don't know. He wasn't here in the sixties or seventies anymore. So tell me a little about it. How? Let's see if I can explain it properly.
Line 82	Patricia McDaniel: How did he? How he got along in the town, he knew the people well, and how he got along with them. Dad, well, he was, uh. I mean, he was from Mexico. Yes, but here from New Mexico. When I saw how he got along with people here and on the trip, how he got along with people, well with everyone, because everyone helped us, helped him with some things.
Line 83	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And he was very well-known to everyone, and he stayed with everyone. And no matter who he was, he would get involved and speak a little English. The more he started working, the more he learned English. And yes, and extra, to come work wherever Mom wanted. He remembers that everyone who had a position in the PAN helped with the harvest during the summer.
Line 84	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : He didn't have to admit that it was a good thing because he didn't have to pay any money. The workers helped each other. He would help some, and then, when it was their turn, others would help him. And that was what did us the most good because he didn't have to pay any money. And suddenly, it translated into helping him.
Line 85	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : And do you remember that big little machine that's for that, for us that builds and doesn't palm, it's for when, when you go out, when to take out straw, when you remember the big machine that went from place to place or sometimes like how you remember when they made the meals. The women would get together to help the other women make the food because they had 20, 15 to 20 men there, who were with the grain, which weren't grains, which were corn, they weren't grains that were... Oh, I remember like...
Line 86	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Once here, everyone gathered. Everyone remembers all the ranchers and they paid for that teacher to come. She would go into that big machine and they would go from place to place with the grain, cleaning it. Remember Friday? And the women would get together and help make a huge meal to help all the men.
Line 87	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And you also attended the cooking of such a large meal, or for how long, for how many days, or to work like that. Once a day, sometimes two days. The most beautiful thing you could, but it was almost a celebration, because it was one. Do they get together with 30 or 40 men now? Who knows how many there are, dude? That's how work is. And the women got together to cook a kitchen and they would set up tables outside, pots, and where they cooked the food, also in the fields or at home.
Line 88	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And then, well, in the house, but that's where they put the table outside because if you didn't have a big house, you wouldn't have room for the table inside, and you could put the table outside for yourself or the men to play. And the kids helped too. And the good ones, the men and women, not all of them went, the ones we knew from high school, the ones who were in school, but it was like a coach or something like that.
Line 89	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But it's an S. It seems like when the wind comes, Bud takes everything away, so it seems to me that it's all over soon, and we go from a good life to this very good life. Well, let's move on and talk about something else, and that's about the community here in M.
Line 90	Patricia McDaniel: The community, here in Emet. When they arrived. When other Spanish-speaking Mexicans started arriving, it was one. They started arriving, well, let's look at it another way later. When they arrived, they came to spend just the summer or to spend the whole summer. Did they come as they were struggling and, well, grown-ups, huh? They came, they stayed, they worked in the summer and they could spend the winter.
Line 91	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They were in one place, in another, they went to their places for the rest before winter came back in the spring again, right mom? I remember all the time I lived here, before I started school, the only ones I remember were the men who came and stayed in the fields, since they worked in the fields, a summer activity, and they came and stayed in the fields when they had the fields.
Line 92	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: I don't remember the leisure time they had, I don't remember families staying with us, not bringing families here even in the summer to work, but I don't even remember there were families here. There weren't many families, so the men came alone. The whole time I was here, until I left Sierra High School at 51.
Line 93	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I don't remember there being families, there weren't many. Every summer, the men came alone. Mhm. To work, to work. And their husbands got involved with them and would get involved too. But when we came from Colorado, we always came together, and we always came to a place where we could stay for two years or so. And so, Mom, they didn't ask Dad to be the interpreter.
Line 94	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Sometimes they brought people to the fields. Uh, on the farmland, other ranchers who didn't ask Dad to come as an interpreter, and on this phone, he worked as an interpreter. He works for the Sugar Company, and the company, well, it's nice that they called him when he needed to go, and they always paid him to translate.
Line 95	Patricia McDaniel: Mhm. Or it went well for us. We had a good time working, well, after the work started, then there are some, there are some Mexicans who live here in Emet, and there are some Mexicans who live here in Emet, so there are many Mexicans who came from Spain and Mexico and are here for the whole year, or they already have some markets or land to build their house.
Line 96	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I mean, they rent, you know, but for the most part they've stayed. Vicente and Silvia bought their house. Vicente, and many others we know bought their houses. The Los Santos bought this house. Here it is. Yes, Mhm. And you? You know them very well. You're friends with them. Do you know many of the Mexican families here? Hey.
Line 97	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : And do I know them? No, no, no, not by name. I associated with them, but I know them. It's fascinating, because I've seen them many times. Believers and their friends here. Who are they? Oh, yes, here. The day before yesterday, Dennis. Because they never, ever ask for numbers. But I have many friends. And people I know here, Mexicans, what? Well, I've never visited anyone, but they visit me many times.
Line 98	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They come here to visit when I know they don't. La Rosa is a good friend of yours, La cara de la rosa, because her last name is Mamá María Rosa López, María Teresa, all of those are from our area. I know many Mexicans here, and I'm not ashamed anymore. I don't go out, but I know that if I want to go out, I could. I can.
Line 99	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Yes, yes. Are we having a good life here, gentlemen, why are we here? We're having a good life. Well, time.
Line 100	Patricia McDaniel: Tape number 2 with interview with Jesúcita Salazar in Idaho. Today's date is April 7 1991
Line 101	Patricia McDaniel: Okay, Mrs. Salazar. Let's start at the beginning with this question of formal education in school. And how much education did you have in Colorado, and what was it like? I'll tell you the truth. I didn't have school. I want to see in the book what it was like here, in terms of love. And why isn't it? And why did it follow us to school?
Line 102	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Inaudible. And at the school level, no, no, there isn't. No, there are weeks at home. And then I discovered that pride and truth are good, and that's what's good at the level of just power, right?
Line 103	Patricia McDaniel: I didn't go to school anymore. Yeah, and your father? He thought it wasn't necessary for girls. I think so. He himself couldn't read. Yeah. He didn't go to school either. And no, he didn't send us. Neither did we. And his children? Well, they went to school. The older children learned when they went out to work in the fields or with the other ranchers.
Line 104	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They learned a little English, or they saw it spoken, but they didn't have many schools. They also didn't learn how to write. The children also learned how to write and read in Spanish, Spanish, and English. And did they know how to read, or did they already know a little? Reading in Spanish and English. But you and your sisters didn't learn to read or write.
Line 105	Patricia McDaniel: When it was the first time it was the first time I felt sadder when I got married than my sisters-in-law, my husband's sisters.
Line 106	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : They could read, speak little English, and I didn't know anything. Very sad for me. Mhm. But my husband, he knew how to read English and speak English. And he got along well and was very good to me. I didn't have a hard time because I didn't know anything. Me. But he was good. I didn't. I didn't pay any attention because I had a good life. And I don't care anymore whether I learn or not.
Line 107	Patricia McDaniel: But you felt a little sad about not being able to read. And very sad. Mhm. Even now, I feel sad because I see everything as reading and learning things from books. I don't know how to read, and I don't understand much English either. And it made me very sad many times. Very sad. Well, let's go from Colorado now to the early years you spent here in Idaho, and I want to know when you arrived with your husband.
Line 108	Patricia McDaniel: Let's talk a little bit about how you did your shopping for the house. With whom? With whom? Whether you went alone or with someone. A lady who worked at the store. That was from Golden María Teresa. She speaks Spanish well. And so there's a friendship because of the food. And she also spoke English. Or if she's well-educated, she already speaks English and speaks Spanish, and they speak in the state like Spanish speakers.
Line 109	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : It's completely fine. She speaks María Teresa. She's Basque. Basque. Yeah. And that's why she spoke Spanish. She went to school to learn English. Good. Well. And I, no, I didn't go to school. My dad never sent us to school. And you felt very comfortable with María Teresa. Well. Oh, yes. Oh, a bit like her. The beach, just like her.
Line 110	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And well, she speaks Spanish very well, and I spend time with her. We speak Spanish and English, not because we don't, no, but I understand a little. Some words you ask me, but not much, so she helped you with shopping? Oh, the house. And what else? What else did you help her with?
Line 111	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Well, food shopping, even clothes shopping. When I had to go to a market research for clothes, she helped me. She went with me, and she also went with you to other places. Other parts of a town. Or not? No more. Here, in the middle, I left from another place, because later I had other friends who spoke English, and she often accompanied me.
Line 112	Patricia McDaniel: When I was going, it bothered you to realize that I... I mean, after a while, you started speaking English and getting to know each other, and I understood some of the things they told me. I'm still not understanding much right now, but... But you've kind of gotten the hang of it. Mhm-mhm. But it's very hard, very hard, very hard not knowing exactly if... well, it's... explain a little bit and most of it about how you felt about coming here at the beginning.
Line 113	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Well, even in my jobs, a lot, but like I said, I can count. María Teresa taught me many things, and she taught us my husband. He spoke a little English, but he understood me well. He made the diagram for me, and also when I was out not being with the place and María's children and the others. His name is Alberto, right?
Line 114	Patricia McDaniel: The oldest was called Sabían hablar, and they helped him too. Support me, or if you help me, you're there. I tell you, wherever. Here, there was someone who knew a little Spanish, and they would help me if I wanted to start a business, the children would help me. Oh, yes, Mhm. Because they started speaking English right away, English and Spanish. Many times during school, they learned Spanish.
Line 115	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Mhm. And that's how my life has been. Very sad, but I don't know much, I don't understand much, but more or less. Yeah, I'm entertaining myself. I notice you speak English quite well. Yeah. Yes, and I need it, but I don't understand people very well. Yes, that's right. It was María Teresa who helped me at first, and after spending more time here, you started to have more friends.
Line 116	Patricia McDaniel: Oh, uh. How, how? How did you start? Having more friends or when did you start working? Aida started working in the files with my husband and then also in the files where she packs bills or where she always goes to work. And there are times, right, ladies who knew English, I would tell them and I didn't understand much of anything.
Line 117	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: I learned a little English a bit earlier from the workers there. Everyone was very good to me. The women and the men alike. They made it easier for me to understand what they wanted to say, more or less. And they treated them very well. There are some very good ones, Mom. Why don't you remember the people?
Line 118	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Jesse Jones and Betsy Walker. And well, it's been a while since she's talked about that. They speak Spanish, and sometimes Michelle, and they don't speak Spanish, but they helped me understand English, and well, they speak so well. She doesn't speak much Spanish, but she speaks. They speak Spanish too. María Teresa, Walter, and the belly work. Yes, I was already there.
Line 119	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : He didn't speak Spanish. Well, Jessy Jones doesn't speak much, but Walker doesn't speak much. But he should learn English. English? Oh, yeah. And how did they help him learn? They taught him. How come, what, what happened from there? Well, they, uh, at some point they'll see that it was sign language. But what about words? And more or less.
Line 120	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I used to grab them. Mhm. And they're still good friends. Well, them, the ones who died many years ago and Jessy. I'm mom, they were members of all the And do you remember? Do you remember that they were members of the frogs. Maria, let's talk a little about his. They were a lot of but very good. All the women from the town here from my mom's to see, huh?
Line 121	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : They lived on the ranch during the summers. You remember seven, seven days from here and... And what was the purpose of this women's club? What did they do at the club? Well, they did things to raise money, to help each other. They beat each other up when the ranchers had sales. And that? Farmers' sales from their house. She gives, she gives food. And I'm always with her, because the members would get together to cook and...
Line 122	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And then I understood more than signs. They taught me how to do things, and I learned more about cooking than words people understand. Mhm. Do you remember some of the words they learned? Oh, yes. I learned everything, as it were, in Spanish. All of that in English. And so in English, because I was in Spanish, but some spoke Spanish. Not all of those who spoke English and understood me wanted to learn Spanish so they could learn better.
Line 123	Patricia McDaniel: But at the club, they would get them together once a week or once in a while. Well, no, not all the time during the week. Sometimes they had sales during the month or the day of the week. Every two weeks, they would tell me, "Look, when all the members get together," and I would always leave because they wouldn't let me stay in the house. They would come for me in the car or on foot.
Line 124	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And well, whether it's far from the car or close, whatever, but they've never left me, they still love me. To date, there are only a few members, but when there are some, they call me or come for me. Mary and the purpose, well, to make meals for two. Their parents worked in the fields, since there were no farmers when I had sales.
Line 125	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Yes. And what else did they do? Just cook or make eggs. They cooked a lot, and not much food was made, and they also sold food. They also got together to chat, and we got together for business. For example, if someone passed away and they weren't dying, and a member of the family died, their wife or someone else helped them, we helped each other with some food for the funeral and all that.
Line 126	Patricia McDaniel: I mean, on any occasion, it was a funeral or a harvest action or something, and sometimes the boss always helped. I don't know what things happened to them or the members, I don't know if I remember correctly, but it wasn't the last time I was here. Talk. Did you talk a little about this? About when you got together to work on fixing this.
Line 127	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: Things for the soldiers, for the soldiers, and, and, and what did that say? Well, I made food for the soldiers. And the other way around was the clothes that someone had to send. They wanted them. We would get them together to sew like this. Clothes for the soldiers in the summer, when I didn't roll up those bands, Mom, that I'm not going to give you details about, and today they're already bands for those I love so much, for the soldiers, for those in the hospitals, yes, I don't know anymore, many times to make those bands, and I always have them.
Line 128	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : I have my sewing machine, many times I had to make the long bands.
Line 129	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And I'll sew them myself. And where did you find this, the fabric, the material to make the bands, the store that was the merchandise from the store of the first store we knew here, the very large, heavy store, and I'm running out of the material for things. Lieutenant. There's a whole list of everything, of all kinds.
Line 130	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : The only larger store for merchandise was here. I already learned to sew. I didn't know much, but the other ladies trusted me more to sew the claws. They helped you with the custom sewing for the soldiers, and the inmates, too. We all made everything together, and then some.
Line 131	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And in the city, I had to do it. And in Austin, just like I learned. And did you feel more comfortable with these friends? After I started working with the ladies, I felt better because I could get out among the people. Before, when we came from Colorado, I didn't understand a word of English. I didn't know anything, but I started. There was a lady named Besy Jones.
Line 132	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Yes, Michelle Walker and those ladies were so good to me that they took me around and taught me how to talk, how to say things. And they, they were here in town. But how long did it take from your arrival to when you met them? How long were you alone without knowing anyone? Well, uh. No, I don't know much.
Line 133	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Alone. You gave yourselves a year. Two years. But soon she'll be. We lived not far away and we got together every two weeks. And that was after we moved to Jana. Mom was after we moved to Jana, she wasn't anymore. And Ana Dean was already alive when I had Bella. I don't know. It was like years after we traveled.
Line 134	Patricia McDaniel: I don't know, it was already like four years. I mean, at the beginning, when you guys arrived here, the newcomers, there was no one to talk to you or spend time with you. Until later, at a certain point, not many years, but two or three years, we started to have people that we knew from the... we're going to talk about that season, the season of arriving here, newly arrived here in the middle of the bench, we're going to talk a little about that season and see if you can explain to me a little about the house, what it was like, the house that was in that...
Line 135	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: They lived together later, the house where my husband and I lived first. My husband's brother is with us. I built a Seat, a little house of no more than two boards with paper, for the wheels and we lived there for about three or four years, until my husband was able to mark a ranch, a place.
Line 136	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But that's the, the first house, the first house. Well, the first house we arrived at belonged to my sister, to me, to her husband, my husband's brother. He still had the house until '20. Yes, and... And you lived there, and you lived in that house. With how many people? I don't know. Your husband, my brother, my brother-in-law, your husband...
Line 137	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: And the children. The brother didn't have any children from our house. But you earn alone. And I had Marías from María and María. And two. No doctor, but then María. And the grandfather was a man. So the brother, my mother, was a man, my brother. I already have him too, already, already, I have him, he died and the house had electricity.
Line 138	Patricia McDaniel: Well, at first, right? When, when we first came, we didn't have lamps. But I have my lamp, that one with an oil lamp with oil. Then, well, it's been three days and water, and so on, to the house. Yes. And how far do you think the distance was between the house and the... The store, for example, the store where it was. How far? Seven.
Line 139	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar: About seven miles. And how did you get from the house to the store? Well, we had a very old Ford. A car. But that's what we drove. In that town, the car worked fine, and I couldn't. In my husband's town, I didn't have one like that. I mean, every time you wanted to come to town, you didn't come with your husband; he brought me to town.
Line 140	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : We always went through—well, no, it wasn't a lot of hardships, but it was always very hard for me because I didn't understand people. The only one who understood me, as I said, was María Teresa, who works in the industry. Yes, and I always went to her and asked her how these things were handled, and... And she told me her name.
Line 141	Patricia McDaniel: Let's talk a little about how you spent your time, how you spent your days at the beginning of your life after your arrival, and how today, sadly, you're all so sad, or just because you couldn't go out, and you could drive cars, and you couldn't go far. We lived on a ranch, and there were only neighbors nearby, with their social networks, and we already knew each other, and that's where my life ended, but it didn't make me too sad having my husband with me, because we're always together, and he...
Line 142	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : And did you work with him in the fields? Oh, you were already working here or you're still doing it, harvesting sugar potatoes, spreading the word on the ranches about this. You'd go out to work with, with, with, with the ladies, with him. I mean, there were other ladies working in my field, and there were a lot of them. And another one with them, with Chávez.
Line 143	Patricia McDaniel: And let's see if it was so difficult, that there weren't just these men on foot, but women too. And that too. And Colorado, but not like Mom and people from Colorado. But no, you also work here on Dale's ranch. Not anymore, but. And you worked on the weekends for others or... Or just for your husband?
Line 144	Patricia McDaniel: Well, yes. Digging for the hundredth time.
Line 145	Patricia McDaniel: Of the. Yours. This one from the ranchers or the ranchers? Mhm. Mhm. But it's this one. I mean, at first you worked in the fields, in the fields, but alongside your husband. With him and with others too. With others too. Mhm. And you continued working at the school almost every year until the boys grew up.
Line 146	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Uh? Until we got to the family. We'd been married for ten years and didn't have a family. Then we started having a family and I couldn't bring much in anymore. I mean, when you had children, you didn't work in the... No, you couldn't work anymore, you had to take care of children, which is to say you stayed home taking care of them.
Line 147	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : But when you arrived here, you already had María, José, and Alberto, right? You didn't have any, you didn't have any. We didn't have any, we already had one. Alberto didn't have any daughters; they were all born here like that. That is to say, here at some point, he already had children, this and that's how it is. And with the children at home, did you work here on weekends or not?
Line 148	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Not when Santa Claus isn't here now. They've started to grow up, but I could leave them with someone else. But who took care of them? Well, while you were there. My friends who are neighbors often went to the doctor, who would take them to work in the temporary shelters, and they would play there while I did the work.
Line 149	Patricia McDaniel: Mhm, mhm. But it didn't happen. Martha didn't go to the minimum jobs, not anymore. Working hard, yes, but they do make a very good living. And when they were working for the ranchers here. Come on. The ones. The ones who were the owners of. Of the ranches. They paid them. How did they get paid? Once a week? Or a. Why once a week?
Line 150	Jesuscita Quintana Salazar : Yes, by the hour or by the day, or with good ones, they paid by the hour. The hours they put in. Mhm. By the hour. And they pay them or they paid them once a week. Today.
Line 151	Patricia McDaniel: And this was it.

Salinas, Librado

Line 0
Line 1	Librado Salinas: Yeah.
Line 2	Maria Talamantes: Oral History with Libras Salinas, January 13, 1991.
Line 3	Maria Talamantes: Mr. Salinas, do you remember when your family came to this country?
Line 4	Librado Salinas: Yes. I came in 1949. It was the first time I came to the state of Idaho. And after that year, we were there just for the seasonal worker season. And then we went back and forth for five years. Something like that. No, during the season.
Line 5	Librado Salinas: From the Almería era. Until I got married. And when I got married. Yeah. Then yes. We stayed here and lived in the countryside for many years. Until one day we decided to stay here and go there altogether. But the way I came from Mexico was when I emigrated in '49. Back then, we just worked. We came to San Antonio with a man named Francisco Sánchez, who was the one who hired people to come work for the Sugar Company.
Line 6	Librado Salinas: And we worked in the files. And from there, the Lord would move to Nice, Oregon, to find work for people. And we worked, well, for about eight months a year. And then we returned to Texas, and there we also worked in construction. Until it was time to go back. So, after that, I started working with Mr. Sánchez, and I learned how to do that with people.
Line 7	Librado Salinas: So I started coming with people too. And they brought them to the fields working, and the factory gave me a commission for taking care of them and paid for my travel and everything until I placed them here in the shelter. I also did the same thing as Mr. Sánchez. I took them to different places to work. After that, I decided not to work in the fields anymore, but instead, I started working with the truck to haul beets, potatoes, and everything else that could be done.
Line 8	Librado Salinas: I got a permit from Boise. Yeah, so I could haul goods like that. Right. And then? After that, we were working. So, the family started growing and everything. And then all my kids went to school here in Twin Falls, from grade school until they graduated from high school. Then they went to college. My son, the oldest, was the first to graduate from college.
Line 9	Librado Salinas: And that helped a lot because afterward, no one wanted to be left behind. So it's like, whatever, huh? I had four children who graduated from college and are teachers in Boise, and they're doing very well, because education is the best thing there can be here. And there have been several, uh, several educational programs here that truly help the community a lot.
Line 10	Librado Salinas: One of them was Lyon Sid. He really helped a lot, he's helped the Mexican people a lot. And I remember all those things because, uh, many families who didn't even know English or anything sent them to school. And that program has been quite good. And I think education comes first, because I see it with my children, because back then I had in mind that I was always going to help my children go to school, because when I came from Mexico, well, in the town where I was, education was very, very lacking.
Line 11	Librado Salinas: Then I went up to Elementary School and whatever little I learned I learned well, anyway, because at least I could read and write, which is the most important thing.
Line 12	Maria Talamantes: And they went to school when I am.
Line 13	Librado Salinas: My dad was very good. That was the biggest problem we had because my father was the oldest in the family. So in that small town, he had three other brothers, and he was left as the head of the family, so he didn't have school, he never went to school, and he worked so his brothers could go to school.
Line 14	Librado Salinas: And the other brothers are all doing well. The states also have good jobs. One worked in the Department of Immigration, another man owned a grocery store, and the other, a contractor—the only one left under my father's employ, because he didn't know anything, had no education—had opportunities in the town where we lived. Once, he was elected to be a city council member, but he didn't accept because he couldn't read or write.
Line 15	Librado Salinas: He said he couldn't accept it because the townspeople loved him, but he couldn't accept a position like that because he couldn't handle it. So we made the sacrifice of teaching him to read and write, and at the age of 45, he learned to write his name and read a little. So, after that, I said to myself, "I'm going to help my family because I don't want them to suffer the same way they did struggling without an education."
Line 16	Librado Salinas: And at first, when I moved here, I worked, I was working in Kimberly at a place, I had just arrived, and I remember thinking, "I'm going to hand in my passport, I'm going back to Mexico, back again, because I couldn't communicate with anyone. But after that, I started communicating with friends, and they taught me English."
Line 17	Librado Salinas: I taught them Spanish, and I started to understand it a little better, and it was easier for me. But now, seeing all the sacrifices we made as a family, I see that education is one of the most important things we have right now, because without education, you can't get anywhere. Now, there are many more Spanish-speaking people, and many of them don't have an education. Many are illiterate and can't even read or write, either in English or in Spanish.
Line 18	Librado Salinas: And that's even more difficult. I think that hopefully, in the future, there won't be problems, because since there are so many people who have jobs, it's not so difficult to get them, or anything that could happen due to a lack of education. But seeing how things are going right now, most of those who have programs, the first thing they try is education, because they're realizing that's truly what's needed.
Line 19	Maria Talamantes: This When you came to this country for the first time, you came with your whole family, did everyone come or just you.
Line 20	Librado Salinas: One, in 1949, when I spent five years making it, I was alone, single, and just getting by. I worked six hours a day and went back until 1955 when I married my then-wife, and then we decided to stay here. And I remember one time because Irma got sick, and I was working in the potato field, and I went to take her to the hospital. She was in pretty bad shape, and they told me they needed someone to interpret there. And well, I knew very little at that time, and so did she. Well, I didn't know anything.
Line 21	Librado Salinas: So, she struggled quite a bit because once she wanted to ask for water and she didn't even know how to ask for water and then when they finally understood her, they started to help her and everything, but she made the resolution that she says that right now she works with a manager and she says that she wants to teach children to instill in them, to get an education so that they won't be afraid of going to school.
Line 22	Librado Salinas: She works in a kindergarten, and so the children aren't afraid of going to fourth grade, they're prepared beforehand so they don't struggle or fear going to school, and by the time they get to school, they already know something. And she says that's something she put in her mind to say, "I'm going to help these children because these children are going to be the future."
Line 23	Librado Salinas: We're going, and they're the ones who're going to stay behind. She doesn't want them to go without an education, so she needs to instill in them from now on, making them see that education is the most important thing. In other words, she doesn't treat them as schoolchildren, but almost as if they were her own children. She wants to give them the best, and she does this because of the experience she went through when she couldn't speak or say anything.
Line 24	Librado Salinas: Now I think she speaks it even better than I do, but that's the way it is. She learned to act quickly; it was easier for her to learn because she's had the opportunity to go to school and things like that. And she still insists on doing something for the children, because she says it's the future here, for Hispanics who don't suffer in the United States, who are at the same level as everyone else.
Line 25	Maria Talamantes: Going back. When you first came, what mode of transportation did you use to get each item of clothing?
Line 26	Librado Salinas: Well, the first time I came here, I came with Mr. Sánchez. He hired the people and brought them all the way here to Twin Falls. And then he was in charge of getting us jobs to work in different places. And after that, he had a nephew who drove the truck, and this guy was the interpreter.
Line 27	Librado Salinas: So they called him up for the army, him and me, and I went to Boise. Yes, to pass the physical, but I passed it in English because both of us weren't up to it, I didn't know anything, I didn't understand many things, and I stayed. But he did go, he left, they took him to Japan, so I was left in charge of driving that truck, and I drove that man's truck until I got married, and then when I learned all that, then I also started doing the same thing as him, working with my truck. I bought a truck and brought people, I took them, and however I did, I survived, I could
Line 28	Librado Salinas: do something.
Line 29	Maria Talamantes: These people who worked with you were from the United States or came from.
Line 30	Librado Salinas: They were from Texas, They were from Texas. They were recruiting in San Antonio, Texas for the De Azúcar company.
Line 31	Maria Talamantes: They came to.
Line 32	Librado Salinas: To work, to work with the sugar company.
Line 33	Maria Talamantes: They came under a type of program or a little bit.
Line 34	Librado Salinas: No, they were already like that. They were all legally from here, from states here, from the United States. They had all their papers from them, nothing more. Well, in Laredo, Texas, a state at that time, there was no work, there was nothing, and everyone, most of them, left. And just as we came from Laredo, they came from Bacalar, from other places as well, to work for the Sugar Company.
Line 35	Librado Salinas: For quite some time we were doing that.
Line 36	Maria Talamantes: You said when you first came here, it was because you were living in the Labor Camp, what were the living conditions like there?
Line 37	Librado Salinas: Well, at that time, the houses were a bit tough because we had to carry water, lottery tickets, water, the, the, the cabins, because they were just cabins. The big houses were the ones that had all the services, but well, only people who were residents of Twin Falls lived there. And those of us who came here slept, all of us lived in the barracks, and it was a bit tough, but anyway, because of the company and the countryside, they lent people blankets, they lent beds to each other, everything was there for them to live, but it wasn't hard because sometimes two-quarters of us would be a whole family of eight or ten, and that was it.
Line 38	Librado Salinas: It was pretty difficult, eh, eh. Nowadays, right now, the Lyon Site has a neighborhood site that's the most luxurious you can see right now, compared to any other. Another property, and it has good services and everything. So now there's more, it's more open than it was before. It's pretty difficult.
Line 39	Maria Talamantes: How did Mexicans treat each other during that time?
Line 40	Librado Salinas: Well, at that time I remember when I was about five years old, from '49 to '55. There were places here, we even had to go to a café, you couldn't get in. There was a café called Red Road and they had twice as many there.
Line 41	Librado Salinas: They also had coffee shops, and they didn't like Mexicans. It was difficult. It was difficult. At that time, it was '49, '55. It was very, very difficult to get in. It's one of those places where they accepted them very well. Now, well, everything changed, and now we're almost all on the same level. But at that time, it was difficult.
Line 42	Maria Talamantes: What made you decide to stay here in Idaho?
Line 43	Librado Salinas: From the people? I really liked coming here because there was plenty of work, and it was the dream of being here in the east, up north, because I did work with people from Texas, who brought them, but not me. I emigrated from Mexico, I came from Mexico, and then later I came with those people, and when I learned, that's when I started working with people.
Line 44	Librado Salinas: But I, I, I did come from Mexico, I just came to Mexico.
Line 45	Maria Talamantes: And Mexico and never went to school or went to school in Mexico.
Line 46	Librado Salinas: Here I always went to the Mexico School up to there in the town of Estados Unidos until the grade that there was and after that time, well this after that was when I came to Laredo, then I met and began to meet people and and well I called myself from the United States, United States until finally well this one day I decided and anyway I went illegally but I fixed it soon and then the immigration didn't come out and then yes I came legally, but I have been here with my passport since 1949
Line 47	Librado Salinas: I'm 41 years old and this time I had a story like, I could say, like a story or something like that, about four years ago I went to Salt Lake to renew my passport because I had a daughter in England who had come over there.
Line 48	Librado Salinas: This one was for transit, meaning just to renew my passport. When they saw it, they told me I was going to give it to myself before I went to school because it was so clean and new that it was dazzling to me, having been kept there since I came here. And then they asked me why I was still a Mexican citizen and why my wife, whom I had immigrated to, was an American citizen.
Line 49	Librado Salinas: And she decided to study as an American, and I've never decided to become an American citizen, but under the law, he told me I had the same rights to live here and be. That I shouldn't worry, that it wasn't a problem. So, anyway, when I was there, the day they gave me the new passport, it was because my daughter was already in England.
Line 50	Librado Salinas: We were going to visit her, and we had the opportunity because my son works for United Airlines, and every year they give us a ticket, so we went to visit her for about a month, and that's different. I'd never been there, nor did I dream that one day I'd be able to go so far, come from such a small town in Coahuila, and then go so far over there.
Line 51	Librado Salinas: But well, that's how it is now, like I said, they're prepared, they're so polite, and they're fun, and in the end, they've walked around different places, and that's how immigration is, eh. They were surprised when I told them I was Mexican and my wife was American, saying that I was there, that I brought her here, to the United States, from...
Line 52	Maria Talamantes: Mexico.
Line 53	Librado Salinas: From Mexico. Yes, that's right. From now on, all my children, all of them, the lady here, well, not in Twin Falls, three of our children were born in Texas and the other five were born here. I'm beautiful, so all these people, well, they think they're from here, because they knew their friends since fourth grade, they went with Americans, and that's how they're so, so they communicate so easily that they're like childhood friends, they have no problem.
Line 54	Maria Talamantes: When you first came here, when you migrated here, huh? Was it difficult for you to emigrate?
Line 55	Librado Salinas: Well, no, when I immigrated here, I was working in Laredo, then this man offered me a job in Laredo, Texas, on a ranch. So I was drinking with him, with a local card, and I worked with him first, farming, on a tractor, working. And then later he needed someone to help him in the store.
Line 56	Librado Salinas: He had a store along the highway, and he had gas stations, and he had everything. Then he asked me if I knew anything about that. I said yes, but at that time I was still illegal. And then this. But the man called him son, and people thought I was the son of someone, because sometimes immigration would come.
Line 57	Librado Salinas: They asked me if I'd been wet on the highway, and I'd tell them no, but I was wet too, but I didn't say anything, I just stayed quiet. And every time they came, I treated them well, gave them soda, beer, or whatever I could offer them.
Line 58	Librado Salinas: And then time passed. So we started helping the Lord keep track of everyone else, because there were several who were illegal, who were workers, and so on. They used a number to go and get the food, and then I wrote down all the profanity they were using, and the Lord was the one on the day of. But I helped him be the one, but if I reduced what they owed, then they were paid what they reached, and he had another master, an older man who was the one who helped him.
Line 59	Librado Salinas: But then when I started working there and I did it better than the gentleman, well, he vacated it and then when he vacated it, well, the Lord then told immigration that I was illegal and then they caught me and then the same police that were going on that circuit, they took me and told me that they were going to try to help me so that the Lord would give me the support letters to work here, because I had been working, doing things that were not legal, because selling beer and this dispatching gasoline and all certain illegal things that were wrong, but anyway, the gentleman two did not
Line 60	Librado Salinas: He refused, then he gave them the letters and two, I didn't go. It took me more than eight to fifteen days and I was already legally in the United States. And that man did me a favor, the man who reported me because I arrived and then I could stay here. Legally. And that's when I met Mr. Sánchez, who Mr. Sánchez was that man's friend and he, the one, came to tell me if I could, if I wanted to come to Idaho with him.
Line 61	Librado Salinas: And I told him, well, I can't go. I told him because you just gave me my passport. Sir, this doctor said I couldn't take it with him, and so they let me come to Idaho, and ever since then, Idaho has been my home. Well, I think I've been living here since I came here, since '49.
Line 62	Maria Talamantes: Do you think Mexicans here are treated well?
Line 63	Librado Salinas: Well, right now, yes, right now, the treaties are in place, whatever they are, there is no such discrimination, because many times people say it's discrimination, but it's not discrimination, just jealousy, jealousy as Americans say, because sometimes they feel jealous that a Mexican is more superior than an American.
Line 64	Librado Salinas: And that's where the problem lies. That's why I say people are respected for what they know, for their education, it doesn't matter what color they are. Education is the most important thing because wherever I go, well, if I go, I'm prepared and the other one isn't prepared. The one who is prepared is the one who's going to get the job, and you're left out in the cold. Because even if you want to, if they give you the job, you won't do it because you know everything. Everything you do is say that education is something very important.
Line 65	Librado Salinas: This one said it.
Line 66	Maria Talamantes: Do you rent your house or?
Line 67	Librado Salinas: No, where here this was challenging in the Labor Camp because for quite a few years and then we bought this little house here where I live and this well as I know a little bit about everything, carpentry, plumbing and everything, and I made it bigger and bigger and now I have a regular little house, but it's day of.
Line 68	Maria Talamantes: When you were young, who lived in your house, well.
Line 69	Librado Salinas: When I was in Mexico, I had to. We lived in Candela, Coahuila, Mexico, in the state of Coahuila, and I was raised by my grandmother and I lived with my grandmother and my aunt, who took care of me. We were six siblings, but God forbid I was raised by my grandmother. The rest stayed with my mother, and they were the ones in charge of sending me to school and everything.
Line 70	Librado Salinas: And when. When I first started going to school, it wasn't until sixth grade, it was all the elements there were. When I finished, I had my sixth grade diploma. At that time, I got a scholarship so I could go study in Saltillo, Coahuila, the state capital, but I got it because I was a little strong in math and geometry, and they wanted me to be an agricultural engineer. So, my grandmother didn't let me go because she didn't have the education or anything, and she thought that if I went to a big city, well, I wouldn't know what I was going to do. It was partly due to ignorance.
Line 71	Librado Salinas: She, well, that's why, but anyway, well, I don't blame them for not thinking differently, because if that had been the case, well, the environment would have been different, I would have learned something because well, you never stop learning, you're always learning something.
Line 72	Maria Talamantes: So at that time they expected everyone to help support the family.
Line 73	Librado Salinas: A good town. At that time, since I was raised by my grandmother, I had everything, so they didn't let me do anything there. Well, mostly housework, but I had everything I needed until I decided to leave home. That's when I came to Laredo, Laredo.
Line 74	Librado Salinas: I had some relatives here on my dad's side.
Line 75	Maria Talamantes: What was it then?
Line 76	Librado Salinas: That was when I was about 22 years old. I was already 22. So, at that time, I started working in the store and learned everything, including how to run the store. My uncle had a grocery store, and then he gave me a job in his store, and I worked there for quite a while. After that, I worked with another uncle who had a bar, a joint, and I worked there.
Line 77	Librado Salinas: And that was when, at that time, when I decided that I was going to try for the United States, that was when I started to come here.
Line 78	Maria Talamantes: It was the opportunities in the United States that made him come.
Line 79	Librado Salinas: Exactly, because everyone here said that this is the United States. And it's because here in the United States, no one lacks anything. Absolutely. If you're poor, you have help, and if you want to work, there's work for everyone. You work however you want, because I work. There's plenty of work, however it is, at different levels, but there is work.
Line 80	Maria Talamantes: What kind of jobs have you done since the beginning, when Dad came?
Line 81	Librado Salinas: Well, at first, when I first moved here, I worked in construction. That's why I did a little plumbing and carpentry, and everything, because I spent quite a while working with carpenters, plumbers, and everything. Right? And that was when I first moved here, and then when I came here, well, to go, well, I did what there are jobs here, labor, agriculture, because I remember that when I arranged, I went to the consul there in Laredo, the consul told me, "Do you know where you want to go?"
Line 82	Librado Salinas: Because I told him I wanted to come see Idaho. And then he said, well, this is an agricultural place. And he said, "Are you going to work there? Agriculture? Wouldn't you like to go to the factories?" And I said, "Well, I don't know the language or anything right now." I thought I'd start with agriculture, but then I liked it, and I stayed here.
Line 83	Librado Salinas: And then, when I decided to stay here in Idaho, I had to take responsibility for my family, for them to go to school and not fail, because that's what it's all about. So, I'm going to tell you something very important: what used to happen to people who came from Texas to Idaho was that they would take their children out of school there in Texas, and then they wouldn't be accepted here, and they would lose all their time.
Line 84	Librado Salinas: They were losing and growing. And then, when they were older, they didn't want to go to school because they didn't want to go to second grade anymore. They were already too old, and that was a pretty big problem until the law passed that made them farm workers. They had to go to school out of necessity. That's when everything started going really well.
Line 85	Librado Salinas: That's why I say that my family was eight, five women and three men, but they all had an education, all of them from first grade to college. As I said, they've surpassed each other, and I'm proud because of my three children, they were all athletes all the time. I have many trophies from them, and they were here.
Line 86	Librado Salinas: They were the only three Mexicans who have played Varsity basketball, and I'm proud because my son, the oldest, was a coach. The aforementioned Kelly Boy, yes, he's a women's coach in Varsity, and now he's going and...
Line 87	Librado Salinas: Well, it's the Jazz School, and I really love basketball, so they're going to be the coaches. Just a little while ago, just a few days ago, my son, the youngest, said he'd won. I mean, even his uncle was very proud, and I hope that, over time, they'll be recognized by people.
Line 88	Librado Salinas: I remember how to educate the players, because they're connected to that, that everything, all the time, they've liked basketball. Here on the weekends, the only thing on television was basketball. Nobody could watch anything but basketball, right? Whether they liked it or not. There were times when the girls would get mad because they wanted to watch other things, but they were all about basketball.
Line 89	Librado Salinas: So all of this makes you feel a little better, because as I say, I'm very well-educated. I have a Spanish education because I can get by in Spanish, but here in English, well, I haven't come down, as you say, from the bottom, to learn to speak it correctly, because the problem with the others, the Mexicans who come after us, is that we can never lose our English accent because it's a second language that you learn.
Line 90	Librado Salinas: You have to think about what you're going to say in Spanish, English, and today you're switching between them. The accent is immediately noticeable. It doesn't matter how much a person is a foreigner who's learned the language. Here, the accent can develop, like those born here, like I see here with my children: if everyone sees them speaking, the other fourth thinks they're American, that they're not from here, all because it's not noticeable at all. But they also have a great facility because they're speaking Spanish from English and they switch to Spanish as if it were nothing and they continue speaking English and Spanish and everything.
Line 91	Librado Salinas: I remember one time I went here to the store near my house, and I had one of the girls, and I was talking to her in Spanish, and she saw me in English, and then I asked if I should ask her what she was talking about. I told her, because I didn't tell her my daughter, and she knows.
Line 92	Librado Salinas: And then I told her. She said to the Lord, she said, "I know how to say it in English and how to say it in Spanish," she told him. And well, I was surprised because I was a child, well, still a little girl, but I already had a better command of English than Spanish. That's right. That's why I say that someone who is born here and speaks it as their own language, that they have to think about it before they can speak.
Line 93	Librado Salinas: And when you think about speaking it, you immediately notice the accent, or if you don't, you're afraid to speak it because you think you'll say something wrong. His education in the East, which, as Americans say, must mean he's finished high school, which is the most important thing, because even with high school, he can defend himself however he wants, because knowing how to read and write by name is already a big thing.
Line 94	Librado Salinas: It is not the same as having no education at all.
Line 95	Maria Talamantes: And his daughters also ended up in.
Line 96	Librado Salinas: This is the top ten. Right now, I have a daughter, one of two girls in Moscow. This is her first year at college, and the other two are married—that's three more married. One is a teacher for New Mexico clubs, and the other two work here in the labs. One works in the labs, and the other also works in the store.
Line 97	Librado Salinas: Look, she's the one who got me. It's been a year and a half of school. The others, all of them, got a degree. Whatever. That's right. I don't have anything else left. Two. I think I hope these last two also finish their schooling properly, because mostly for them, being women, they need to be prepared.
Line 98	Maria Talamantes: And what is very important to your family?
Line 99	Librado Salinas: Well, for me, for my family. What I wish with all my heart is for them to finish all their education and serve the community, to try to help those who truly need it. And as of now, I know that my children have done things like that, that they've helped people, whether it's interpreters or whatever need they have. If that had happened before, it would have been very different, but this is the time.
Line 100	Librado Salinas: When we arrived, there was none of that. You suffered through an interpreter or whatever, you struggled a lot. I just went to see the doctor because I didn't know I was going to tell him you could die from whatever it was, and I didn't know how to explain what you were feeling. No, if I didn't find an interpreter, well, there he was, sick, nursing oral bruises with aspirin or whatever he could find just to get through it.
Line 101	Librado Salinas: That's right, it's very difficult not to know it. Education, education, not knowing the language is sad.
Line 102	Maria Talamantes: These are the customs passed down from your grandparents and your parents. What customs have been passed down to you?
Line 103	Librado Salinas: Well, they've always tried to make us embrace Mexican culture, to wait all the time, to respect our elders, right? A lot of things that are very important, which I don't dance around here. This is the main thing they advised you the most when you were a kid: to respect your elders and... If they had a conversation, they didn't need to tell you as soon as they saw you, and you had to leave right there because the conversation wasn't for you, right?
Line 104	Librado Salinas: There was a system that required that respect to exist at all times. When someone arrived, one had to leave so as not to listen to the elders' conversations, but he also took them to church. This all the time. Of course, they instilled in you that you should be baptized in the Church, right? Well, we're Catholics and we've been passing this on to our children, and that's how it's been going on all the time, but right now, there are many religions that respect anyone, because most people just have faith in themselves, and having faith in something, is very important.
Line 105	Maria Talamantes: So, you think it is very important to maintain your parents' customs and values?
Line 106	Librado Salinas: Yes, well, I think that I have. I've kept all of that because I've used it with my family. Sometimes, after we finish eating or closing, we all start talking and telling them the best way to live, how to live it and everything. And the first thing I've told them is to remember that we're Mexicans and that we're in a different world, that we should follow their customs, follow the customs of the Americans, but at the same time not abandon their culture, but rather respect theirs and enjoy it as one so that these problems don't arise in any way.
Line 107	Maria Talamantes: How did you meet your wife?
Line 108	Librado Salinas: Well, they lived in Laredo and I also lived in Laredo and already close to the house, like two blocks away. And we met and we all started going out until we got married and we got married in 55. And now we've been married for about 37 years. It's quite a long time, but anyway it's been pretty good because we've always been in agreement, we've always walked in agreement, because I remember that later in the years that I married her, well there were years that we went to Texas and we still had until when the family started to grow, when they were already going to start going to school,
Line 109	Librado Salinas: That was when we got married and said we were going to stay here. But during that time, I bought a little piece of land in Laredo, Texas, and we built a little house, and she helped me with everything. From when we started figuring out how to build the house. I built the whole house, everything, but she glued the roofs and everything, and every year we came, she'd save up money and we'd add another little piece.
Line 110	Librado Salinas: And so until this one we also made a little house there, which then when we decided to stay here was when I sold there and paid here, which left me my property free, but this one I had to sell because there was no one to take care of it and the house and well I said well there's no point in renting because if the render looks at it I can see it and then we'll see if it's gone or not.
Line 111	Librado Salinas: So, I decided to sell and with what I got from there I paid, I paid here and now the property is paid for and I have everything paid for.
Line 112	Maria Talamantes: You had a wedding All this.
Line 113	Librado Salinas: Huh? Well, to be honest, honorable. No, I stole the lady in the style, as they used to say. No, we didn't get married. But with their consent. But we didn't. We didn't celebrate the... Like incomplete. But now, after us, all my sons, all, all my daughters, all have had their... or IMSS. And all because, uh, my wife is one of the people who really likes it all to be celebrated and simply if a baptism is or whatever she wants it to be celebrated as it is celebrated in Mexico in all the houses. There aren't many times when there are people so poor that they have nothing to offer, but well, yes, if the tortilla tastes...
Line 114	Librado Salinas: Whatever it is, they offer a little party and have their party and everything is nice and good. When celebrating each Ay! I knew a man who threw huge parties every time he baptized, every time a child was born, but he did have quite a bit of money. It's glorious, as it should be. And we know how it's done and how it's celebrated afterward.
Line 115	Librado Salinas: Well, they still celebrate birthdays with a piñata to give candy to the children and all that stuff. So, Mexican traditions, no matter how beautiful they are, are poor, but they are beautiful.
Line 116	Maria Talamantes: And you continue to cheer.
Line 117	Librado Salinas: This. We here too, we're still celebrating, except that like here or now, going with the kids is different, the piñata. Well, as they say, in reality, nowadays the piñata is going away, but it goes to McDonald's, it goes to a place where it's big, like where you used to go, you go to the atmosphere, but it's still like that, it still takes all its things.
Line 118	Maria Talamantes: There are questions that one has asked you, something that you want to say.
Line 119	Librado Salinas: Well, this is what I'm doing. The only thing I can say is that I'm really happy to be here, because I've never had any problems with anything. So, anyway, since I don't even work, when I stopped making videos since I started working with the truck, then I think that here in the Magic Valley there isn't a ranch that I haven't worked on, that I haven't hauled alfalfa or something like that, because everyone knows me and I didn't have to go around advertising for the newspaper that needed work.
Line 120	Librado Salinas: I've been with some people before, they told him, and I already had more work than I could handle. By the way, back when I started doing that, my brothers also started the AA, buying trucks and working together with others, and then we worked more, well, more, better, but this guy has always treated me well.
Line 121	Librado Salinas: Everything here, everything. Never had any problems with anything.
Line 122	Maria Talamantes: His children helped him load the alfalfa.
Line 123	Librado Salinas: I taught my children how to work with hardwood, how to farm, and then they also helped me with the cows and herding them. We lasted about 20 years, and when they were here, I still remember that my son, who worked and played in high school, would go for a while, and then my wife would drop him off because he had enough practice playing and all that, which is why I think they're fine.
Line 124	Librado Salinas: I gave them the opportunity to work hard, but they came to school to do what they wanted, what they liked, that's why I think that's why they decided better when they knew the experience of working hard, hard and if they could get an education and get a good job. And it was what they call all the time getting to do something like this is that when the oldest who was the one who graduated first, who graduated from High School and didn't go to college and who already had his diploma and everything, and who came and because before this, before Santos the Elder went to college
Line 125	Librado Salinas: This, when he left high school, he got some sholarchips to go to the school near me and went for two years, but then after this. He said he decided he wanted to go for education. Then I remember he once wrote me and told me about Colorado Springs and he says, you say, I'm not going to make the sky disappear.
Line 126	Librado Salinas: I'm still here at school. He says, "I want to go to an educational school, I want to be a teacher." And then I told him this is your home, and if you don't want to, you can come here. So, are you still at school? I didn't tell him wherever, but I am at school. And then he came from there, from Colorado Springs, to here.
Line 127	Librado Salinas: Stop, stop, I'm going. Yes, but before this, the first year he was at the academy, this was John Sick, So, my daughter, the one who follows him, that is Ana. She went with him up to there, Up to. Up to You'll remember, because she went and she applied to get this school in some college in Denver and she was there for two years also following her brother, because Santos who wanted a car and the academy didn't allow him to have a car and dragging it to school he could have one.
Line 128	Librado Salinas: So there are the likes, she would go and take him out of school so he wouldn't feel so bad and anyway they were together for two years and then they both decided to come to Hawaii and then they both graduated the same year, because the older one lost his grades because he changed from one school to another and then Ana was a year behind him and then they both graduated together.
Line 129	Librado Salinas: So, they both graduated from Boise State the same year, graduated from there, and now they know everything. New York has a Boise State class, he teaches a class there, he teaches there, and... And he also works to help and do the job he's had all along, for almost 14 years since he was in school in the east.
Line 130	Librado Salinas: At school, I used to work there, and I worked with him, and he paid very well. And look, that's why he works there, but at the same time, he's still in education, because he wants to continue in education, so right now he's teaching a class in the mornings. You can see this one, and then he worked two jobs. He has two jobs. One has a lot of ambition, I think.
Line 131	Maria Talamantes: You are very right because you are very proud of your entire family, of yourself and your wife.
Line 132	Librado Salinas: Or yes, or yes, I'm proud, and you even more so. As I said, I'm proud because this Santos, the oldest, set an example for them. The others, who later wanted to be less so, all wanted to grab their diploma and said they were going to do it, and I don't know. And they did it, they did it. So, anyway, with sacrifices and sometimes programs that helped them stay in school, and the others also helped them. We were the ones pushing them not to drop out, to stay in school, to continue and believe, because I was telling them all the time that they had to sacrifice those four years, but
Line 133	Librado Salinas: Once they had their diploma, they could then have a job, a car, whatever they wanted, because for Mexicans, most people, as soon as they can work and have money, the first thing they want is the best car. That's all there is to it. Like I said, it was like a custom or something, like, how do they work later?
Line 134	Librado Salinas: They want a car. So that's it. What's up. Anyway, my children now have everything I wanted. I feel really proud because everyone, everyone is working well, and I remember that here once, one day, a man asked me if he asked me and he said, hey, he says, you know him, A1A1, a boy named Oscar Jesús Salinas, he says he's one of the Fox family who have lived here for many years, that all this, that there and here.
Line 135	Librado Salinas: And I told him, well, yes, I know him, but I thought he was going to say I'd done something wrong, that I didn't tell him anything, I just asked him if he knew him, and where does he live? I told him, well, he lives there in my house, and he says, "Why?" I told him because he's my son. And then he said, "I mean, I knew it," he says.
Line 136	Librado Salinas: And then he told me he congratulated me, because he had heard that this boy was very intelligent and that he was very handsome and that when there were meetings like that they were talking. To say that a person was intelligent and well I told him that that day that I heard that, well I felt very proud and he was proud that, that he asked me about it and if it's true, because truly the boy is intelligent and he is intelligent and knows what he's doing, if it is that I hope and that he helps many people because I am like right now or of him working at the High School cemetery.
Line 137	Librado Salinas: It's not very easy to get in there, so they've already made their way in, and mostly Mario, because Mario has this whole package to look American, if he even knows it. They think he's American. And the others don't, because they're tall and Oscar is a little dark-skinned. Well, we're not blond.
Line 138	Librado Salinas: You see, there's everything, right? Mario looks a lot like my dad. My dad was, he looked American, so that's why there's everything, and the girls too, well, there are some that are too, no matter how white or blond they are, but this one is like that, it doesn't seem like it, but anyway, when a person is white, they are white.
Line 139	Librado Salinas: I have this feeling that they're treated better. I don't know if it's discrimination or not, but it seems like they give them an easier opportunity. Seeing them as black, you say, well, this isn't the other nation anymore. This one is either Mexican or Puerto Rican or from another nation, and usually always the American.
Line 140	Librado Salinas: Well, America has the facility everywhere because it's from here, it's as if we were making comparisons. It's like when an American goes to Mexico and applies for a job and another Mexican is there, well, naturally, he gives the other the opportunity, as is natural. That's not because of discrimination, it's not for nothing, it's because it's just the way it is, that's the way it is, because, as I told you, oftentimes color doesn't mean anything, because what's needed is wisdom.
Line 141	Librado Salinas: Intelligence is the most important thing because it doesn't make you black, white, or whatever your color is. If you're intelligent, you're respected for what you know; if you're intelligent, you're respected for what you don't know, for your color. So that means a lot, and that's why I think I've done a good job with my children, sending them to school, trying to do everything for them, and when they were four and had their college degrees, then the doubt was a while.
Line 142	Librado Salinas: I worked with the truck and then I applied to the program itself, because I also wanted to have a degree and I told them that I was going to get a degree and then this lady, the whole part was the one in charge of that time so I was happy to grab this and I have my diploma and have to study proudly.
Line 143	Librado Salinas: And I tell you, you have a diploma, but I also have two. It's like I told you, because it was a course that lasted no more than a year. But I know, I know how to say the iron and how to hit it, and that was something I learned quite a bit, something I'll never forget because I've already learned it, I've learned it.
Line 144	Librado Salinas: Well, the instructor was very insistent that I teach her everything because he said that I had to learn it well so that Silvia could exercise that uh or say whatever it was to get attention. And that helped him a lot because he was always close to me and sometimes I was too. He kept an eye on the other guys who worked there to see how things were being done and the most that now well I would tell him because well whatever my age, my eyes have already changed a little and now no, right now I'm working with Universal Food, this is the job that I have right now, yeah, yeah, the
Line 145	Librado Salinas: sketch I've already left everything, I'm already working, it's going to be, it's going to be the or already, not as hard as I worked before, if it's that, all that has already been passed on from life, because I truly don't feel disappointed, on the contrary, I'm a no of the happy of crying.
Line 146	Maria Talamantes: This is perfect. Thank you very much, Mr. Salinas.

Sanchez, Leonel

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Line 1	Marie Anderson: Leonel Sanchez, Twin Falls, Idaho
Line 2	Leonel Sanchez: Coahuila, Mexico. One hundred miles south of Laredo, Texas, is a small town of two thousand people. Very. A very rustic and very poor life. The people were very poor. There were very, very few rich people; the only people who ran the town were two or three people, who were the richest people in the city.
Line 3	Marie Anderson: You come from a big family.
Line 4	Leonel Sanchez: From very large families. Yes, we were. I'm the oldest of five men and two women. I was born in 1929, on March 26, 1929, and I was there, in that town in Candela, until 1944, right? No, 444. And it's forty-one or forty-four forty-four.
Line 5	Leonel Sanchez: I emigrated.
Line 6	Marie Anderson: Who did you live with in Mexico?
Line 7	Leonel Sanchez: Guadalupe Sánchez, who is my dad's aunt and sister. My mom. Mom was very ill when I was born. So Guadalupe Sánchez, who is my father's brother and sister, took care of me until then, because I didn't want to go with her all the time. After that, I didn't want to go with my mom. I stayed with Guadalupe, you know?
Line 8	Marie Anderson: You were the oldest in the family.
Line 9	Leonel Sanchez: The eldest in the family. Yes.
Line 10	Marie Anderson: And was that normal for you to live with an aunt or was that normal for me?
Line 11	Leonel Sanchez: For me, it was normal because I didn't know any other kind of life other than hers. She gave me the care and nourishment and the love I needed, which I didn't get from my mother.
Line 12	Marie Anderson: When did you come from Coahuila to the United States or when was the first time you crossed into the United States?
Line 13	Leonel Sanchez: We crossed the United States. My aunt Guadalupe Sánchez and I arrived in 1944, on April 25, 1944. I came as a student, and she worked with some relatives making clothes or washing clothes and things like that, and I went to school in Laredo, Texas, at a Catholic school.
Line 14	Marie Anderson: How old were you?
Line 15	Leonel Sanchez: I took English for two years after leaving English classes. That is, one English class. Then I went to eighth grade, eighth grade, eighth grade, and then I stopped studying.
Line 16	Marie Anderson: Because what was the reason?
Line 17	Leonel Sanchez: Reason? Well, the reason is that I didn't like school very much, and another thing. And another thing is that I needed to work because I saw that everyone had money, and I'd never known dollars or money.
Line 18	Marie Anderson: And how old was he?
Line 19	Leonel Sanchez: Or well, I was forty-four, well, when I was fifteen, forty-four, fifteen years old, I worked in Laredo, Texas. After school, I worked washing cars and greasing cars and patching cars in a garage where they parked cars. And I was there for a long time, a long time doing that. Until I came to Idaho.
Line 20	Marie Anderson: When was the year that you came for us.
Line 21	Leonel Sanchez: We came to live in 1949. My uncles had already arrived. They were here in Viola. I was young, and I came to Bosque. I traveled five days from Laredo, Texas, to Viola, Idaho.
Line 22	Marie Anderson: Who did you come with?
Line 23	Leonel Sanchez: I just came in the woods, but they were already here.
Line 24	Marie Anderson: And why were they here in Viola?
Line 25	Leonel Sanchez: They were working in the fields, in the fields of beets, in the fields of corn, in the fields of Green Girl, and in the fields of beans, in all kinds of field work that required manual labor, hard work, very hard work.
Line 26	Marie Anderson: When you came for me, it was difficult. It was difficult. The immigration laws for going from one state to another. What were the laws like?
Line 27	Leonel Sanchez: The immigration law? It was. It wasn't from one state to another, but from Mexico to the United States. And it wasn't, it wasn't much, much, it wasn't much as they say. No, no, it wasn't much. I paid twenty-nine dollars, I paid twenty-nine dollars, and my aunt paid twenty-nine dollars, because the residents were already there. She, like her, like her, they guard me and me as a student.
Line 28	Marie Anderson: Oh, okay. Did you come to Idaho with a student permit, or did you already leave? No.
Line 29	Leonel Sanchez: No, I emigrated in '44. And it's legal. You were a resident here in 1944, so that's when I was already a resident here.
Line 30	Marie Anderson: And when you arrived for Viola, what did you find when you arrived?
Line 31	Leonel Sanchez: Well, what I found. I found a field in front of the large part of the Grande Park. A very poor field, full of carp, small carp. And my uncles were there. One of them was married to his wife. And she was the one who approached us all, the whole family. And I remember very well that there were people from Jamaica, that is, workers who visited the Green Giant to come harvest the corn that used to be fished.
Line 32	Leonel Sanchez: by hand
Line 33	Marie Anderson: Mhm.
Line 34	Leonel Sanchez: And now they don't have hands; now they have all kinds of equipment for machines, rather than by hand. We used to take a truck with a team of eight men. Two of us, two in front of the truck, throwing the corn backward. And the other three men on each side of the truck, fishing three or four at a time and then throwing the corn from truck to truck for ninety cents.
Line 35	Leonel Sanchez: The time. At that time, by the regime.
Line 36	Marie Anderson: It was hourly, not hourly.
Line 37	Leonel Sanchez: And we also worked on contract at two hundred sixty a ton. And then we thought we were doing better by the hour. And no, that wasn't the case. We made more working on contract at two, at two dollars, I think two dollars, zero cents.
Line 38	Marie Anderson: How many hours did you work per day?
Line 39	Leonel Sanchez: Or we worked eight to ten hours. More like ten hours a day. And we didn't make much money. Well, ninety cents an hour. Me, too.
Line 40	Marie Anderson: There were many families who worked.
Line 41	Leonel Sanchez: Many families, but the men or those of us who worked in the fields, the women worked in the beans with a hoe. The work was lighter.
Line 42	Marie Anderson: How many months were you in this type of work?
Line 43	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I came back during the corn harvest, so I didn't stay long. This year we went back to Laredo, Texas, and then the following year, we came back. But not by plane, but to Twin Falls. To Era.
Line 44	Marie Anderson: To do that.
Line 45	Leonel Sanchez: For the beetroot treatments. I don't know, I was in San Antonio. I don't remember his name right now. But the sanatorium congratulated us, "Holy crap!" And from here.
Line 46	Marie Anderson: Oh, him. He went from Twin Falls to here to Texas.
Line 47	Leonel Sanchez: Being all the way to Antonio, Texas, isn't about being in San Antonio and Amarga Madrid. They paid twenty-two fifty for each worker I brought. Benito Fifty paid for transportation for each person, plus ten dollars, which they gave each worker to eat on the way. We arrived here. They worked in the beet plantation.
Line 48	Leonel Sanchez: They gave us the book, which was the one. And then, to be closer to work, we went south to live on a Morgan ranch. There were Morgans.
Line 49	Marie Anderson: There was a field there.
Line 50	Leonel Sanchez: It wasn't a house, it was a private home. He lived in a big house, and we lived in a small house. Al and I worked around there to create a radius of about ten miles. But there were a lot of beets, pieces, small, but a lot. And it was a club of about ten people, all from the family, plus some Puerto Ricans who came with us.
Line 51	Leonel Sanchez: And we all worked under contract. We did everything we could, but we worked from sunrise to sunset. Back then, it was ten o'clock. Well, fourteen, fourteen hours, thirteen or fourteen hours. We worked and it didn't cost us more than a dollar and a cent an hour.
Line 52	Marie Anderson: And there were only men who lived there when they were. Before there were no families.
Line 53	Leonel Sanchez: There was a family, my uncle's wife's family and his family, who were the ones who approached them. Mhm. All of them. And this one and we worked around with many, many farmers around the fair.
Line 54	Marie Anderson: How many months was the job?
Line 55	Leonel Sanchez: Okay, we didn't come here until May. Sometimes we started working on the beets on May 5th.
Line 56	Marie Anderson: Mhm.
Line 57	Leonel Sanchez: I was ready to begin all of them. After the beets, the cleaning began, and then the bean cleaning and corn cleaning began. And there were also other kinds of hourly jobs that required cleaning, and all that in the work.
Line 58	Marie Anderson: And when you decided or, and then you went to Texas after that.
Line 59	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I was going, we were going that year, we went back. In 1950, we went back, that's why Uncle Sam called me, even if it was to go to a physical exam in Boise in 1950. And a friend of mine and I went to the physical exam, to the physical exam, in Boise. And it was my turn to pass and he didn't pass because of his lack of English.
Line 60	Leonel Sanchez: And I passed the test. So I had to report. When I left here, I went to Texas. I had to report to San Antonio, Texas, Aguas, Huasco. They called me from San Antonio, Texas to report on a certain day, and the two of us, a whole group of about 29 or 30 people, came to Antonio, Texas, and I was drafted, or I mean, signed into service with the Army here in San Antonio, Texas, on February 13, 1951.
Line 61	Leonel Sanchez: It was when it was when waters in train of.
Line 62	Marie Anderson: And what war was this for?
Line 63	Leonel Sanchez: During the Korean War. Mhm. I was already pa. It was for how many. Before the end of the Korean War, the Korean War was raging then, and from there, from San Antonio, Texas. They sent me to South Carolina, Fort Jackson, Carolina, and I ended up in a division that was the National Car Division, Colorado, BP. Mind you, everyone there was No, no, then no color.
Line 64	Leonel Sanchez: I said The beach Call the Very first Infantry Division by Jackson They were another division in the same camp, but there were people of colored people or.
Line 65	Marie Anderson: And what a division you were in, in the division that the whites had. And there were other Mexicans there.
Line 66	Leonel Sanchez: Yes, in my, in my division. In my division, there were many Mexicans and Americans and Puerto Ricans, but all of them were white. There was no color.
Line 67	Marie Anderson: There were no colors, of.
Line 68	Leonel Sanchez: Color.
Line 69	Marie Anderson: They sent you to another country or well.
Line 70	Leonel Sanchez: Not until I finished my training. Who? Who? Who? Report Jackson from here, from Fort Jackson. They flew the whole division to Temple, Texas. Some maneuvers. And there were some very big ones. We participated in them for certain periods, I don't remember how long. And then they flew us from there in airplanes to go to Very Very Indiana, near Indianapolis.
Line 71	Leonel Sanchez: One day I was in the field for Very. Then I went to School, commissioned School, and then I left CarPlay. That's when the fiasco hit me. I trained others, the new ones I was with. I trained them, and then after that, they sent me home to Texas.
Line 72	Marie Anderson: How many days of me.
Line 73	Leonel Sanchez: Weakness and I had to report everything in California because. And from there they sent me to Japan.
Line 74	Marie Anderson: Yeah. And which part of here?
Line 75	Leonel Sanchez: I'll tell you about William from New York right now. We left here in the That's Collins Truck Carrier. Mhm. And this one. And we were inside West Jack. I think they already put me in another field in break rap or whatever this field is called.
Line 76	Leonel Sanchez: In a division. But that's how it was. We were all mixed. There were Puerto Ricans here, Mexicans, and all the races who lived here in the United States and were putting up with us. They called me Anthony Ford Division.
Line 77	Leonel Sanchez: Supporting or the reserve in reserve in the very close vicinity of the Sea of Japan, we were constantly on maneuvers, preparing ourselves in case they were missing, so we could be able to come from the front.
Line 78	Marie Anderson: Am And after this, how many months were you in Japan?
Line 79	Leonel Sanchez: Oh, I was there for like six months or so.
Line 80	Marie Anderson: Less than six months.
Line 81	Leonel Sanchez: After six months, they sent me to ask for my time, and it was going to be up. They sent me three years, they sent me to talk to and come back home, so we came on the That's Radio TV Carrier Radio and we spent fourteen days, or thirteen days, or fourteen days crossing the Pacific, right?
Line 82	Leonel Sanchez: And now, you know, there are many, many forms of transportation, fast airplanes and the fastest boats. I'm wasting time on this for you. Weeks fourteen. I was so sick I looked at the river. I couldn't, and I arrived. We arrived back here, and from there they sent me to Houston.
Line 83	Marie Anderson: In Texas.
Line 84	Leonel Sanchez: In Texas, at that From the service A on February thirteen and then Javier Slaughter of Kevin Kennedy, Honorable Joseph Pratt, Edward for inactive for five years after on your back, I grabbed my my.
Line 85	Marie Anderson: And when you know when you left, or on February 13, 1953, where did you go?
Line 86	Leonel Sanchez: I lived in Laredo, Texas, until the following year, when we returned to Idaho. In 1954, I met my wife and imagined myself.
Line 87	Marie Anderson: Why did you decide to come to Idaho?
Line 88	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I didn't know any other kind. That's where I started seeing pennies of work in the Fields because I didn't know them anymore.
Line 89	Marie Anderson: How? How did you meet your wife?
Line 90	Leonel Sanchez: I met her because they came from Colorado, and her parents were friends of mine. Of my uncles. Their parents. Friends of my uncles and aunts. And then. Ah, so acquaintances also did that kind of work.
Line 91	Marie Anderson: And before you got married, you knew her well. You dated.
Line 92	Leonel Sanchez: Alone. We just went out. I'll tell you right now. Well, I already had her in mind, but no, no, I hadn't gone out with her. We went out to the show, and I had to bring a chaperone because they wouldn't let her go alone with me.
Line 93	Marie Anderson: And how old were you?
Line 94	Leonel Sanchez: And I was six years old. So at that time, if she. She was sixteen. How old was she?
Line 95	Marie Anderson: I was fifteen when.
Line 96	Leonel Sanchez: I met. When I was twenty-three, I was already fifteen when I met her. Twenty, twenty-four, twenty-four, twenty-three or twenty-four around there when I met her. And then we got married in. In fifty-five. November two, thirty-seven, Five. And the next one. We got married here at your in Falls, on rest. I. I don't, no, no. Church. Joseph George rescued us.
Line 97	Leonel Sanchez: Ignoring. I was. I had problems with. With my eyes. I couldn't see very well.
Line 98	Marie Anderson: And they got married on November 2nd.
Line 99	Leonel Sanchez: And then the third day. The next day we continued. We returned to Texas. And I took my wife there. And we spent a winter there. And then the following year we came back. I mean, it's Fifty Six. We came here through the jobs.
Line 100	Marie Anderson: And it was something permanent. When they decided to come again in fifty-six.
Line 101	Leonel Sanchez: No, nothing was permanent because jobs dried up and we had to move on. But since I was already married, I decided to stay.
Line 102	Marie Anderson: There were others who decided to stay at that time as well.
Line 103	Leonel Sanchez: Very few, very few. It was me and this guy. And then the guys started coming, the leading men. But then. And this guy. But I was one of the first from there, from that place I got lost in. There were Mexicans, but I was one of the first to come from the region, apart from that, but there were very few Mexicans, and there were those who were there.
Line 104	Marie Anderson: Whoever remembers how they treated him as a Mexican, well here.
Line 105	Leonel Sanchez: They treated us like First workers. We never had a chance. We didn't know anything else to look for another kind of job, no more laboring work, laboring work, because you see them in the sugar cane factory. No, they didn't have any. They didn't have any because I needed it. The batteries for the beetroot didn't have any.
Line 106	Marie Anderson: The thing is that the sugar mill was not occupied by Mexicans.
Line 107	Leonel Sanchez: Well, there were Mexicans, but very few, very few. Not like now, when it's a large percentage of Mexicans. They're very few because the ranchers had the jobs, the ranchers had the work, the ranchers finished their work and then they hired them there, and we stayed. There was nothing else to do but wait for the potato job and then return.
Line 108	Leonel Sanchez: But in 1956, I decided to stay. I've been here in Idaho ever since.
Line 109	Marie Anderson: It's that if the employers treated the Mexicans well.
Line 110	Leonel Sanchez: Well, they treated them well because they had them in the place they wanted, they treated us well because they had us in the place, they weren't going to give us a chance to work in a store or something, they just didn't have the ability to work there where they needed because there weren't any, there weren't any other people who would do the work as, as, as well and as cheaply as we did, where they lived.
Line 111	Leonel Sanchez: Okay, we lived in the old south field of Twin Falls
Line 112	Marie Anderson: Can you tell me a little bit about life in the countryside or.
Line 113	Leonel Sanchez: And at that time, eh. It seemed like a small town, populated entirely by people from South Texas, Arizona. And then they brought braceros from Mexico as well. For the bracero jobs, that is, people who come hired and have permission to work for a certain period of time, and I remember that I managed a group of them, I took them to work in my own truck or in the sugar factory's truck, and then I had 100 percent of what I did, by the way, was take them, bring them, and manage the club, the accounting of the, of what they made and everything.
Line 114	Marie Anderson: And what year was that?
Line 115	Leonel Sanchez: Or was it fifty-six? It was fifty-six.
Line 116	Marie Anderson: And in the countryside there were many families in the countryside.
Line 117	Leonel Sanchez: There were a lot of families in the countryside, and this... Well, it seemed like a small town.
Line 118	Marie Anderson: How was it? The conditions in the field were very good.
Line 119	Leonel Sanchez: Well, for us it was fine, but for other people it's not well-equipped. The condition of that one is very bad because they were bathrooms for everyone, just for everyone and very, very, very unhygienic. The new ones weren't, ah, it wasn't clean, no
Line 120	Marie Anderson: What did you do in your spare time when you weren't working? What did you do to pass the time?
Line 121	Leonel Sanchez: Well, we were going to go to the poplars to turn around and see. We were going to fish here and turn around. While walking, we were sure we were going to turn around, but then we were going to Bill again to visit friends we had.
Line 122	Marie Anderson: He had a car.
Line 123	Leonel Sanchez: I had a car.
Line 124	Marie Anderson: If you can tell me a little bit about the modes of transportation, the cars you had.
Line 125	Leonel Sanchez: Yes, I bought the first one. The first car. We bought it for five hundred dollars. It was a 400, four-door that turned out to be very good. I took it to Mexico and drove it. I had it for two years, and then we started using it and got some Gary Bakers, a Baker three-quarter-ton truck, a three-quarter-ton truck, and on that one, I had two heads with a tarp, and we used to bring people back, again, a full bucket in a pickup truck.
Line 126	Marie Anderson: How many days did they spend on the road?
Line 127	Leonel Sanchez: Three days. We spent on the road. Three days exactly. Three days with everything. We rested those nights. I was the one driving. Mhm. I was the one driving the whole time.
Line 128	Marie Anderson: And where was your wife during this time when you were going in the truck to grab AM Cruz?
Line 129	Leonel Sanchez: And that? That. That was before. No, I, I, I, um, I already stayed here. No longer, I didn't go there anymore. Fifty-six. That was before I was driving, I was driving another one before. The one we decided to stay here.
Line 130	Marie Anderson: Okay. And when you decided to be here, you were working in manual labor. And you mentioned you were working in potatoes.
Line 131	Leonel Sanchez: Yes. Ah, at that time, when I started working in the mumps. Well, first, after we caught them, the potatoes. Fished by hand, by hand with baskets. And then the reds came in, the fish, and we were left with two sixty-five-pound sacks, and then I would load them onto my truck with four loaders. We would load them, and then I had four unloaders also at the garbage dump, and I would load them without lifting a single truck.
Line 132	Leonel Sanchez: We'd all put in ten, fifteen little acres, twenty acres, forty acres. You know? The greatest thing is that...
Line 133	Marie Anderson: And who did you work for or who was it?
Line 134	Leonel Sanchez: I worked. I worked for many, many ranchers who are now the Fabri ships and out, and I worked for many ranchers who I don't. I don't remember the names of the potato and. But I know many partners here in the Magic Valley.
Line 135	Marie Anderson: Okay, you told me earlier that you worked for a man named Ben Ruth.
Line 136	Leonel Sanchez: Right? Yeah, this one. This man had the draw. He occupied his clubs to draw. Dad drew, and there were people who ran him from the club. He was in his office and he was in his office, which was here on Carriage Street, across from Texaco. See Texaco, that's where the office was.
Line 137	Marie Anderson: It was a big operation.
Line 138	Leonel Sanchez: Small, small, a small office and this one and. And he was in charge of that. And then we went to work at the paper mills, sorting through Dad and then the Pull Brothers, that Park John. Because they were in charge of hauling the outfit, they were pure Doctor Phil Becker, old but very good at working, who even gave them Juan or Back's son for, for each trip and and and those were the ones who loaded, loaded the paper mills and took it to the railroad cars to copy potatoes number one and number two, which was that.
Line 139	Leonel Sanchez: But the one I started with, and I worked with many, many ranchers. I also worked for, you know, Glen Harding, who was Manny's employer, and I also worked for Boiler in Jensen. Uh, the winters.
Line 140	Marie Anderson: Ben Ruth employed mostly Mexicans.
Line 141	Leonel Sanchez: We weren't much of a club. It was just a small club, with eight or ten people, and it was occupied by anyone who could work.
Line 142	Marie Anderson: And then.
Line 143	Leonel Sanchez: Not everything.
Line 144	Marie Anderson: It grew, right?
Line 145	Leonel Sanchez: Well.
Line 146	Leonel Sanchez: Savings, right? So my first son, Gilbert, was born in September, and at that time, in September of '57, some friends of mine were working for the Main Road Railroad, Main Railroad 20, on the branch from Twitter Falls to West Nevada. Mhm. And this one. And there was a happening, and I went to work. I was in one of the, uh.
Line 147	Leonel Sanchez: And I'd be in a field for a few days, and then other days they'd come back to us like that. And then I only worked for a short time, and I worked on Jack Fat's De la Play Sur first, and then Henry's Va a sacar de la play, and then I'd play Jackpot's Easth. And then I also worked on Rogers and then Jack Here's Ended Up Right Now.
Line 148	Marie Anderson: And I don't remember. Wife When I was.
Line 149	Leonel Sanchez: She was living here.
Line 150	Marie Anderson: In the countryside.
Line 151	Leonel Sanchez: In the field and it is.
Line 152	Marie Anderson: And if you were working for the Railroad, maintaining that the tracks or.
Line 153	Leonel Sanchez: If we have to fix the tracks and everything.
Line 154	Marie Anderson: Mhm. And how many months or years did you do it?
Line 155	Leonel Sanchez: No, no, just a short season, a year in the church.
Line 156	Marie Anderson: And then what did you do after that?
Line 157	Leonel Sanchez: Well, then. Then I worked here in En la. In the winter. We worked. I worked in the. In the. In the potatoes. And then I joined the factory in background. Sixty Nine. I joined the factory, but. Well, no, I didn't take that job seriously, I went and. And sometimes I didn't go. And so on. Then, uh. I worked the beet unloading dumps and then...
Line 158	Leonel Sanchez: And so, no, I didn't take it. Seriously, it wasn't until I got into Seventy Three that I seriously took the job I'd already thought about.
Line 159	Marie Anderson: Were there many Mexicans working in the sugar mill?
Line 160	Leonel Sanchez: Not at that time.
Line 161	Marie Anderson: Still.
Line 162	Leonel Sanchez: No, there weren't many of them yet, but now there are many.
Line 163	Marie Anderson: Earlier, when you were talking to me, you said that before you went to work at the sugar factory, you went to school here in O Si.
Line 164	Leonel Sanchez: Yes. When? When the school. When the school opened. Yes, it's today. We're here on Kimble Road. A small place that was a tractor and just there in places. And then. Yes, that's true. That while I was in with while they were building the big school here and this one and and And that gave me a lot of opportunity to practice English and learn English.
Line 165	Leonel Sanchez: That's where I learned a little bit more about management, like agricultural management. I earned my GED and then, during those two years, I also earned my Agriculture Business degree. So, I've taught myself, up until today, what management is all about.
Line 166	Marie Anderson: Why did you decide to go to school? What motivated you?
Line 167	Leonel Sanchez: Well, my spirit, my spirit to go to school was to.
Line 168	Marie Anderson: A moment in.
Line 169	Leonel Sanchez: To learn English better and have a little education to get good jobs. Mhm. And well, it's helped me anyway because I'm not satisfied. What has happened to me in life, what has been this that helped me.
Line 170	Marie Anderson: At this time. When you decided to go to school, you weren't there yet, you were still living in the countryside or whatever.
Line 171	Leonel Sanchez: I didn't buy a little house in South Park because I lived there, and because of work. And that's where they were born. Well, my children were born, the hospital, but we lived in a tiny house, which was just two bedrooms and a kitchen, and all the dogs for all the children had firemen.
Line 172	Marie Anderson: How many children?
Line 173	Leonel Sanchez: Eight.
Line 174	Marie Anderson: Eight children.
Line 175	Leonel Sanchez: Eight children, five girls and three boys. And the oldest and another five girls. And then normal.
Line 176	Marie Anderson: They bought a house in South Park.
Line 177	Leonel Sanchez: He bought a house for two, two. I remember, two thousand five hundred dollars, and we paid for it in installments. That house and that house. We lived there until I moved. Here's number seventy-three.
Line 178	Marie Anderson: Can you tell me a little bit about life? There were a lot of Mexicans in South Park.
Line 179	Leonel Sanchez: The park was where there were the most Mexicans. Mhm. In South Park. That must have had more Mexicans because, well, look for one where you can communicate better.
Line 180	Marie Anderson: What was life like in that little house?
Line 181	Leonel Sanchez: Or very crowded, very, very attacked, very, very tight. And then we were so cramped in that tiny house and the jobs that I couldn't afford anything, just enough to eat, I couldn't save enough, and even more so for that. And then raising a family. So you imagine eight out of eight children.
Line 182	Marie Anderson: That his wife was working at that time.
Line 183	Leonel Sanchez: I worked here, in the beans, whenever. Whenever she and I could. Wherever, wherever I could. More temporary jobs.
Line 184	Marie Anderson: And they moved to this house in seventy-three.
Line 185	Leonel Sanchez: Seventy-three. This, how I sold it, I sold the little house. I already paid. I sold the little house and then I. He got us this house and. And we're buying it. We bought it under a program that we entered paying Erin and dollars About. And then depending on how the Income Tax could reach your computers, which is the limit we're paying right now or we're paying. And that's including insurance, taxes and everything for a thirty-year contract.
Line 186	Marie Anderson: How much bigger is this house than the little house you lived in in South Park?
Line 187	Leonel Sanchez: I'll tell you right now, they're four times bigger because we only have the one. The top floor is twice the size of the little house over there in South Park, and then we have the other basement where we made rooms when my kids were little. We divided the rooms so the men and women would have privacy. So, that's it. And now it seems like everyone is getting married.
Line 188	Leonel Sanchez: I have two left. Two singles, and the house is too big for my wife and me. But we're very happy because we have visitors all the time.
Line 189	Marie Anderson: How many people live in the house now?
Line 190	Leonel Sanchez: Three, my wife and I. And this one? And a bachelor, Tony.
Line 191	Marie Anderson: And how old is he?
Line 192	Leonel Sanchez: He is twenty-seven years old.
Line 193	Marie Anderson: Twenty-seven. Twenty-eight. And he works.
Line 194	Leonel Sanchez: He works and worked. After he graduated. Did he work? Oh, he went to college. And this one, and... And he knows? He knows, right? Very smart. He knows how to fix cars and mechanics. And then he went to work at Al Al, playing Factory. And then it was temporary. And then now he works at the or my. Because it's more stable, more year-round work, round the clock, and with very good benefits.
Line 195	Marie Anderson: AM When I went to talk to you, you put a lot of importance on nothing in education, can you tell me a little bit about your children's education or maybe?
Line 196	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I place a lot of importance on education because I know it's the only way to advance in this life, in this place. So all my children graduated and took other career courses, and they're all doing very well. For example, I have a teacher.
Line 197	Marie Anderson: Tell me about your children and your children's education.
Line 198	Leonel Sanchez: Well, everyone is. Everyone's making more money than me, and I work in the factory, and I'm very happy because, no matter how it is now, the pay is different. Mhm, at that time when I started, I bring you, I bring you here in 73, when Your Honor started. In 73, I was earning two or three dollars an hour.
Line 199	Leonel Sanchez: And now I'm earning ten and more.
Line 200	Marie Anderson: That's very good.
Line 201	Leonel Sanchez: And this one stops. Well, by the way. It's all good. And I'm happy. And I'm ready to retire. I'm already sixty-two, and I might have sense left until I'm five. Very good.
Line 202	Marie Anderson: And does your wife work too?
Line 203	Leonel Sanchez: She works, so my wife works. She's been a hard worker, and I don't know how. How did she put up with me? Because I drank a lot, I drank a lot, and we had it together. And then I stopped drinking in '83, on April 20, '83, and then a year later, I quit smoking because it was affecting me.
Line 204	Leonel Sanchez: If you continue drinking and smoking and are now a victim of it.
Line 205	Marie Anderson: I think you're doing very well. Cheers.
Line 206	Leonel Sanchez: Pretty good, I feel great. I really like exercising, I really like hunting, Batman Clavin, Bikes, Motorcycle Boat Fleming, streaming favors, and then I also like workouts and physical fitness. Other things, actually, because it's the only way I can feel better. I have to exercise constantly because I'm forced to work very hard and quite hard, and that's where I feel most comfortable.
Line 207	Leonel Sanchez: I'm working pretty hard, and like the job I have at the factory, I'm working twelve hours now and I leave as if I hadn't worked at all, and twelve hours, but... But I work pretty hard there, I have to be constantly watching and making sure everything's going correctly. In the jobs I've worked there.
Line 208	Marie Anderson: Their children live here in Twin Falls
Line 209	Marie Anderson: Where they live
Line 210	Leonel Sanchez: Well, nothing more, nothing more. One of my daughters, who's the second-oldest, lives in Madera, California. Her husband is from California. They lived here in Jensen and decided to move to California. We go. And we visit them every year. Well, the others are here. Here. Okay. Oh, and in...
Line 211	Marie Anderson: The Jensen is that if they live here. Here around seven of the eight.
Line 212	Leonel Sanchez: Seven. What? Six out of eight. Six out of eight. Because you live in Florida.
Line 213	Marie Anderson: Bo is. It is a.
Line 214	Leonel Sanchez: Lionel Junior. On Friday, Junior left. He went to school and learned. Cooking went to Copy School, and now he's the one with the best job at the bank, which is going to organize and all this, and he's the one who makes the most money of all.
Line 215	Marie Anderson: But all his children Yes, they are all very.
Line 216	Leonel Sanchez: Okay, guys. You've got your jobs. All right.
Line 217	Marie Anderson: What do you think is the most important thing you gave your children? Your children?
Line 218	Leonel Sanchez: Well, the most important thing is that not only because I wanted it, but I felt that education was very important. Which it is. But my wife, who is. I've been married to her for thirty-five years. She was the one who helped me the most to get a good education. She was the one who made sure I had an education so that I wouldn't suffer as much as we have suffered in life.
Line 219	Marie Anderson: And none of their children have lived the life of a migrant.
Line 220	Leonel Sanchez: None. Yes, because ever since I've been here, starting when we were kids, we've been in one place, we've been out and about, I don't pay them anywhere.
Line 221	Marie Anderson: What important things about Mexican culture have you taught your children?
Line 222	Leonel Sanchez: Well, the language they never forget is the most important thing. All my children speak good English because it came naturally to them, because they went to school in Spanish, but they never forgot it. So they speak both languages, they also write them, and all my children are very, very, very proud. I'm proud that they know the languages they don't hear, that they don't hear, that they've forgotten that we are Mexican, and that their ancestors, my children's, are from Mexico, and the tradition is that they continue the language and don't forget that.
Line 223	Marie Anderson: And their children married other Mexicans.
Line 224	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I have two daughters married to Anglo, one of them, Mary, who is a teacher for a while and then got a job at Tupperware. A very good position. She was in charge of a chef, and then when it closed, she worked in the office. A very good position, and everyone has good jobs.
Line 225	Leonel Sanchez: I have a daughter who also works for the city. Margarita works for the Welfare Department. After many years at the Family Health Center, Karla worked at Frozen Foods. I mean, the Universe and Donate, she works there, and it's the same thing. Mae and Booz, well, he's the one who works in Florida.
Line 226	Marie Anderson: And they have children, children.
Line 227	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I don't know about those who are single, but those who are married are in charge of the child.
Line 228	Marie Anderson: How many are there? Grandchildren?
Line 229	Leonel Sanchez: Grandchildren I have twelve grandchildren and all four. I forget their names. I name them by numbering from one to twelve, twelve grandchildren, yes.
Line 230	Marie Anderson: You have it. They have the difference of making number one through number twelve.
Line 231	Leonel Sanchez: Number twelve.
Line 232	Marie Anderson: And they also know the language to their grandchildren.
Line 233	Leonel Sanchez: It's very important. Yes, they know it, and they're there, and they're there. I'm trying to ensure that they don't forget it, that they continue the same tradition of knowing Spanish and then English. Well, it comes naturally to them because they go to school, but they never forget Spanish. And I have very intelligent grandchildren, all of whom are trying to learn it.
Line 234	Marie Anderson: But, although not all of them are Mexican, they are. You said some are.
Line 235	Leonel Sanchez: Yes, a daughter, Marietta, married to an Anglo. Oh, and I can also name you, right? Eric Anderson, this one, and he has one. A place where you work out, a Health Center, where. Where, well, you can work out and watch more salsa and all that. And another, Leila, is married to a team of robots, which is a long time ago. Well, yes, it is.
Line 236	Marie Anderson: And those grandchildren also know Spanish.
Line 237	Leonel Sanchez: If they are all here, they know Spanish because I don't want them to forget it.
Line 238	Marie Anderson: That's really important.
Line 239	Leonel Sanchez: And here at home, too, we eat Mexican food, we have all kinds of traditions, we pack, but the best is the menu because we're already used to it.
Line 240	Marie Anderson: There's something I forgot to ask. What do you mean?
Line 241	Leonel Sanchez: Oh, yes. I just wanted to say that I wanted to let the world know that just as I was able to overcome my vice and raise such a large family, and that everyone has good jobs and everything, I hope they continue, continue teaching them education first and foremost, and teaching them to never forget the tradition of Spanish, to learn both languages, and thus have the opportunity to have better jobs here where we are. This is very, very, very important.
Line 242	Marie Anderson: How do you view life for Mexicans? Has it changed here in Mexico since you arrived in '44 until now?
Line 243	Leonel Sanchez: Well, I'm in '44, well, the United States, but Magic Valley has been there since '49. Well, life has changed because, well, everything changes, everything is modernizing, and you don't have to work anymore, or not as hard as back then. There's work, so I occasionally do it during the summer when I work, and I bring people for it, for the beet steaks, beans, or what they call onion seeds.
Line 244	Leonel Sanchez: So, and to fulfill my promise, so that I don't forget that these are jobs that I can do very well, and the ranchers are happy with me because I take advantage of them, I provide them with the help they need, and I also know that just as I can control them, I can give this advice to all Mexicans. It's that just as I was able to control the vices of drinking and smoking, and then raise such a large family, all the suffering and everything to be where we are now, don't stop instilling in your children that they don't forget Mexican traditions, even if it means not forgetting Spanish, because I
Line 245	Leonel Sanchez: I've seen a lot of people who just go to school. Here, they're taught Spanish, and they forget it until later, they're not speaking anything but English and no Spanish at all. And I'm very grateful, very happy, and very proud that all my children speak Spanish and write it, and everything, and it makes it easier for them to find good jobs.
Line 246	Leonel Sanchez: It's easy. So I'm very happy, even though I don't make as much money as my children. I'm very happy that they're living a different, more comfortable life and are raising their children the way I think is best for them. I'm happy to see you happy, I'm happy because I'm in good health, and I feel very good about every day I live.
Line 247	Leonel Sanchez: I thank God, I thank God that every day I live and I am completely satisfied with what has happened, with everything I have suffered and I hope, I have learned from all the suffering, learned that well, everything is in one's will to do what one wants.
Line 248	Marie Anderson: One question you said thank God, how important is religion in your life?
Line 249	Leonel Sanchez: Oh, well, that's the way, that way, most of me, my faith, and everything is in religion. Because if it weren't for that, I wouldn't have given up vice, because I was completely dominated by vice. And then I started studying the Bible, and then I knew very well that the advice there is exactly by, by a being who...
Line 250	Leonel Sanchez: What's the most powerful thing? Because it gave me the power to let go of that, to stop giving up on the vices I had, and I'm still doing it. I'm still praying and everything, to keep me on the right path. Because I've gained, and now I have, a lot of confidence, confidence that I can do it. I have a lot of friends and my family, they all respect me a lot, and I love them a lot and I respect them a lot.
Line 251	Leonel Sanchez: And I am completely sure that if one day I live a week or more, a month or something like that, I am living it happily, contentedly.
Line 252	Marie Anderson: Thank you so much for this time. It's been very interesting for me, and I'm very grateful.
Line 253	Leonel Sanchez: Well, and a lot too. I'm very happy to give you this information, and I hope you enjoy it.
Line 254	Marie Anderson: Thank you.

Sierra, Victoria Archuleta

Line 0	Angela Luckey: This is an interview with Victoria Archuleta Sierra by Angela Luckey for the oral history project of the Idaho Commission on Hispanic Affairs. The interview took place on January 10, 1991 in Mrs. Cierra's home, 317 South 3rd Pocatello, Idaho. Mrs. Cierra talks about her family and their experiences as they began living in Idaho. Do you know when your family came to this country?
Line 1	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, my family already lived here in the States. My father was born in a little town called Chaparito in the state of New Mexico. And my mother was born in a little town named Higby in the state of Colorado. And as far as I know, their people were born in the States. So I don't really know anything more about where they came from to here, except they were already there in New Mexico and Colorado.
Line 2	Angela Luckey: Do you know about your grandparents?
Line 3	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: No, they, I think that my great-great-grandmother on my mother's side was Indian, American Indian. But I don't really know what tribe or I don't know anything about her. My mother's mother died when she was six years old, when my mother was six years old. And then so they lost track of everything. They never, she had to go live in a cattle ranch with her dad. So they lost track of everything. Nobody had ever explained anything to them. And my dad, well, his parents died when he was six years old also. So he never had any family history of any kind, except that they were all born in New
Line 4	Angela Luckey: So how did your family then come to Idaho?
Line 5	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well my dad traveled a lot in his young days and then he finally settled down in La Junta, Colorado, and that is where he met my mother. My dad's niece married my mother's brother and that's how they came to know each other. And so they married and started having a family. I have an older brother that was born in New Mexico, because they traveled back. And then I was born in La Junta six years later. And then we moved to Grand Junction, Colorado, where he was working as a ranch man. He milked cows for this man. And we lived there until I was about six years old, six or seven years old.
Line 6	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And then we moved into Grand Junction, the town of Grand Junction. So from there, my dad was a field worker because he had no transportation of any kind there for a while until he bought himself a little Model T car. And then we used to, they used to take us kids to pick green beans. It was quite far out of town.
Line 7	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So my brother and I took care of my tiny little brother that was born in 1930. And we stayed in the car all day long waiting for them. They would come to eat lunch and we'd see them for a little while. And then they'd go back and pick more green beans until the late evening. Many a time the car wouldn't start, and so we had to be there until it was dark. So we had a few times of panic when the car wouldn't start. And it was getting dark and everybody left except us. So it was kind of, there's happy memories now. At that time it was just kind of, I would say, oh, there was lots of sad things that would happen at that time. And I can remember when we'd eat lunch my mother would boil potatoes and corn on the cob and boiled eggs. That was fun to eat lunch at that far out. It was kind of like a picnic every day. We had fun then. And we really had lots of good times.
Line 8	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: I think about it now and it seems kind of sad that we grew up like that, but it didn't damage us any. It was just a lot of fun at that time. But we had no other means of a livelihood except my dad working out in the fields, my mother. And I learned to cook when I was ten years old because sometimes I had to stay home and take care of my two brothers while they went out. My mother and dad went out and worked in the fields. And that wasn't very easy and I wasn't too crazy about it. My dad taught me how to make tortillas and the beans were already cooked from the day before. So all I had to do was make the tortillas for when my mother and dad would come home.
Line 9	Angela Luckey: It was a lot of burnt ones. Did you make the tortillas with flour or corn? Yeah, flour tortillas.
Line 10	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Being from New Mexico, I guess my dad wasn't too crazy about corn. They ate atole, which is corn with milk. And my mother didn't especially care to cook Mexican things, so she did a lot of, oh, we ate a lot of macaroni and stuff like that that wasn't Mexican. But she liked to, she grew up on this farm, on this cattle ranch where you didn't eat a lot of Mexican food, you know. The cooks learned how to cook, oh, they cooked biscuits and gravies and stuff like that. Puddings, my mother being a teenager at that time tried to learn how to cook all that. And she was better at cooking things like that than Mexican food. So we didn't eat much of that until we came to Idaho. And we came to Idaho in 1942 after we had been to Nyssa, Oregon. We came from Grand Junction to Nyssa, Oregon in what is called a Renganche, where they send out kind of scouts and ask if the people want to come and work in the farm work. And they pay your way. So my dad really thought that was a neat opportunity. So we went to Oregon, we went to Nyssa, and my brothers and my dad and some friends that came with us, they worked. And so my mother and I didn't have to work in the field at that time.
Line 11	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And we had a little sister, so my little brother enjoyed working with them, but he didn't have to work all the time. Anyway, that I mostly helped my mother. We lived in this, it was kind of a half of a house that the farmer provided us with. And there was some little other little buildings where the boys slept.
Line 12	Angela Luckey: Separate from the house?
Line 13	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Yeah, separate from the house. And we went to the store about once a month, I guess, when the landlord and his wife went to the stores. And we went with them and bought our groceries. And we didn't have any refrigerator or anything, so we had to buy things that didn't have any chance of spoiling. So we ate a lot of canned meats and a lot of potatoes, and of course we had a huge garden at that time, so it was nice. But the weather was beautiful over there.
Line 14	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And then my dad had been in Pocatello, Idaho, when he was a young man. And there was only the railroad station, and the rest was really not much of anything. The Indian Reservation was where it is now, I think, or Fort Hall, because he remembers seeing Indians and even talked to some while he was waiting for his freight train so he could hop it and go back to New Mexico. He liked the weather, and he liked the way the people treated them, because in Colorado there was quite a lot of prejudice. And so we grew up kind of, I grew up kind of timid anyway because of that. But my dad always remembered that when he was here that one time, the people really treated him well. And then of course this town was just booming with people at that time, with the war and the airfield out here, and it was just lots of people. And anyway that we came here, my dad and my brothers came first, and they all got jobs on the railroad. And then my mother and my little sister and my little brother, we got here about the day after Thanksgiving in 1942.
Line 15	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And the people here were so nice, the Huertas, the Sazuera, the Gonzalez, that really treated us nice, took us under their wing and helped us to get settled. And they were all people from Mexico that had come from Mexico. But we just got along really beautifully, and there didn't seem to be any prejudice with the white people. The Indians came and went, and I was really surprised to see that they wore moccasins, and they wore their babies in their back on a blanket, the ladies. The men all had long braids.
Line 16	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: They'd tuck them inside their shirts. And they spoke a lot of Indian at the time, Indian language. And it was really something for us to see because we had never been around Indians like that. Anyway, we settled down, and about a year or two later, my brother married a girl that was half Indian and half Irish. And so my dad decided that we would just stay here. He had planned for us to go back to New Mexico as soon as the war was over, and he had gathered up enough money, and he even bought a place in New Mexico. But when my brother got married, he decided that we didn't need to go clear down there anymore. We'd just stay here in Pocatello.
Line 17	Angela Luckey: Was that Jose Miguel? No.
Line 18	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: My brother, Jose Luis, married here at that time. And then my brother had gone into the service and came back in 1946, 1947. So that's why they decided to just stay here. And we had met lots of nice people and made friends, so we just didn't feel like we wanted to move anywhere anymore.
Line 19	Angela Luckey: Excuse me. Go ahead. How did your family do all the traveling when you came from Colorado and Oregon?
Line 20	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, when we went to Oregon from Grand Junction, Colorado, the farmer that my dad went to work for paid our way. That was a Rengancia. They pay your way to go to wherever you're going to work for these people. So that's how we got there. They paid our way. We traveled by bus, the trail way bus.
Line 21	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And it was kind of slow, but we finally got there. And then when we came to Idaho from Mesa, Oregon, we came to the trains. The trains were just noted at that time. It was really hard to get a seat. It was really crowded with lots of people. And when we decided to stay here, so being that Pocatella wasn't extremely large, we walked everywhere we went. And there was lots of taxis. I don't remember a bus at that time. There could have been.
Line 22	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: But pretty soon, my brother came back from the service, and my second brother was married and settled down. And, well, I went to the service, too, in 1945. I enlisted in the WAX and took training for hospital aid. They called us medical technicians. So we did the cleanup work, and we gave some shots, and we weren't allowed to give pills. Only the head nurse did that. And I took my basic training in Fort Des Moines, Iowa. That was really something my girlfriend and I enlisted from here. And then from Fort Des Moines, Iowa, we spent six weeks in Fort Sam Houston, Texas, learning to be medics. And once we were there and graduated from our training, myself and five other girls were sent to Hamilton Air Force Base in San Francisco, California. I was in only eighteen months the war was over by then, and they were replacing us with young men that were coming in on the draft. So I was kind of happy to come home.
Line 23	Angela Luckey: How did your parents feel when you enlisted?
Line 24	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I think that they were not real, real happy because none of us had ever been too far away from home. My oldest brother did a lot of traveling, too, before he went into the service. But I think that me being the only girl at that time, well, my little sister, but I was grown up. And I think they kind of worried a little bit, especially because the women that entered into the service weren't too popular for the very simple reason. The men didn't like it because they said, women's place is in the home. They don't need to be in the Army. And the people around here, of course, weren't used to things like that happening, and there were only two of us in the Mexican community that went. There were others, quite a few others. But as far as the Mexican community, we were slightly frowned on, I think. But we came back, and they accepted us all right.
Line 25	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And my parents were kind of glad that we had different experiences and learned how to get along with other people other than just here. And I liked it myself. When I came back, I enrolled in the, at that time, we had a Ricks, no, Links School of Business. And I attended that for a year and went to work as a waitress. I worked as a waitress for the railroad, Beanery, what they called it. It was a nice restaurant that was right there at the railroad depot. And I really enjoyed it because there were so many people coming back and forth in the trains. I worked midnight shift at one time, and really, really liked it. When the place was full of people, I enjoyed it more. But it was fun.
Line 26	Angela Luckey: Where did you go shopping for groceries or clothes or whatever? Here in town?
Line 27	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: There used to be a store. It was home owned by these people. And they were white people. I can't remember their names. But we used to trade there all the time. My dad and the man got along pretty good, I guess. I don't know how come they knew each other. But we went there. And we used to trade a lot with credit at the time since the railroad only got paid twice a month, I think. And we used to shop there quite a lot.
Line 28	Angela Luckey: So did your dad work for the railroad then by this time? Yes.
Line 29	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: When they first came from Oregon, he got a job right away in the roundhouse, what they called a roundhouse. And my brothers worked in different places in the railroad. I worked in the railroad too for a while before I went into the service. I worked in a place called the scrap docks. We used to pick up pieces of metal that were for the railroad cars, pick them up from one pile and put them in another pile, the good ones. The bad ones we put on another pile. So it was kind of fun. We worked outside and it was in the summer. We had fun. My girlfriend and I worked there.
Line 30	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And there was a little store on 4th Street run by Bill and Annie Angelos. And that was the teenage spot where everybody came together. We drank more Coke and ate more chocolate cupcakes than anybody else, I think. We'd get through working in the railroad. We'd run and take a bath and get cleaned up and come to the store to see who was there. And almost everybody was there all the time, the Morelos, the Diaz, and Joe and Dolores Diaz. John was in the service at the time, I think. And all the other kids that were around, I can't even remember their names anymore. And then when the Braceros had come into town, well, most of them worked for the railroad too. And rather than in the fields, that's really funny, they needed them mostly for the ice plant.
Line 31	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So that's where they worked a lot. So they were all young kids too, you know, in their 18's, 20's, 25's. That's where I met Ernie Flores and Arnaud Foil-Varez and several others, but they're the only two that I know stayed. And we all had lots of fun. Everybody was at the stores just like the corner drug store in other towns. And that's where we talked and giggled and laughed. And then from there sometimes we'd all go to a movie. And it was a lot of fun.
Line 32	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And down the street there was another little store run by a little Greek couple, a little man named Goth and his wife. They were always trying to teach me the Greek alphabet and how to speak Greek. And their little store was really going downhill. But they were so sweet and I don't know, I guess they died, I didn't really hear any more about them. I don't even know if they had people here or not. But they were really sweet. And they were real, real Greek, you know what I mean? They didn't speak much English at all. And it was kind of fun to listen to them.
Line 33	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And then later on, of course, the bigger stores, there was the big store called The People's Market. And it was, I guess it was the next forerunner of the supermarket. Because everybody went there. Of course there was a safe way and I can't remember what other store there was. There were several others, but that's where we traded the most. It was also a home-owned store.
Line 34	Angela Luckey: You said the Mexicans were treated really well here. Yes.
Line 35	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: If there was any prejudice, it wasn't out like it used to be where I came from, from Grand Junction. In Grand Junction they even had signs up on the windows, no Mexican trade. And it was really something, you know? When we came here, that's the first thing we noticed. They didn't have signs up on the windows in the restaurants, no Mexican trade in the hotels like they did over there. And that's why my dad liked it better here. He said people were treated better here. The Indians didn't seem to be prejudiced against, you know, that the people had any prejudice against them. They walked all over in town, like I said, their babies in their backs, on their backs. And they congregated in the different corners and nobody said anything. They were always there. And that's the reason why my dad liked it here so well.
Line 36	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Nobody was discriminated against going to find a job at that time. While in Colorado, the only job that the Mexicans could have would be on the, what they call the extra gangs, fixing the railroad tracks. And the Italians worked like the jobs that my dad and my brothers had here, what they called hustlers and wipers. I can't remember what they were, what they were called. Anyway, they took care of the engines when they came in. They cleaned them inside and out, washed them, and helped in that turntable in the roundhouse to turn the cars around and the engines. And those jobs here were all held by mostly Mexicans. And while in Grand Junction, a Mexican couldn't get a job like that. In the Coleshoot and all those other places, mostly the Italians worked in those places. And there was, like I said, lots of prejudice. And the Mexican people from here didn't like the Mexican people from Mexico. The Mexican people from Mexico didn't like the people from here. And actually the ones that got the jobs on the railroad gang were the Mexicans from the other side because they only used to pay a quarter an hour as far as wages. And so the Mexicans from this side said absolutely not.
Line 37	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: They wouldn't work there if that's all they were going to get. So that's why mostly the Mexicans from here, we were called manitos because we were mostly from Colorado and New Mexico. And that's where they worked mostly in the fields. Picking peaches, topping onions, picking green beans, topping beets, thinning beets, and picking apples. Things like that. If a Mexican was lucky enough to be employed by the same employer all the time, that would really be great. I remember my dad walking 11 miles to pick peaches. And like I said, we really were real poor at the time. We had no transportation. And so when this chance came along to going to Oregon, my dad really liked that. So that way we got out of town, better jobs, well better wages anyway. So that's why we came.
Line 38	Angela Luckey: Did you attend school here?
Line 39	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, only when we first came here, I was only 18 in 1943. And so I went to ISU and took a course in electricity because I wanted to be an electrician's helper. See, they had the gun plant out here, and they used a lot of electricians and lots of electrician's helpers. I only knew very few people that worked there. So I took the course, it was six weeks I think, during the winter. I used to walk up there. My dad would walk me halfway up to the park, and then from there I'd have to walk by myself up the hill to the Votec. He'd walk you to Caldwell Park? No, not the park, well the ISU part, the ISU grounds. And then from there it would be getting lighter. So he'd just leave me there and I'd walk all the way up the hill to the Votec. There were only the three big buildings for the Votec. And there were lots of women taking courses as the electrician's helper in electricity and welding and having to do with radio, electronics, I guess it was.
Line 40	Angela Luckey: He'd walk you to Caldwell Park?
Line 41	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: No, not the park, well the ISU part, the ISU grounds. And then from there it would be getting lighter. So he'd just leave me there and I'd walk all the way up the hill to the Votec. There were only the three big buildings for the Votec. And there were lots of women taking courses as the electrician's helper in electricity and welding and having to do with radio, electronics, I guess it was.
Line 42	Angela Luckey: How did the women teach you how to work for the gun plant?
Line 43	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Instead I went to work for the railroad. And then I was 19, and that's when I went to work for the Beanery. And then shortly after that in 1945 I joined the service. And from there, then I went to Links School of Business where I attended a whole year and then like I said went to work as a waitress again. So I worked in a little Chinese restaurant over here on center. And then I got married. And since in those days when you got married you didn't work, you stayed home, that's what I did. Stayed home and had children.
Line 44	Angela Luckey: So your earliest memories of school though, your grade school days?
Line 45	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, they were back in Grand Junction, yes. I went to school. I remember that my brother and I couldn't go to school until after the beet harvest because we didn't have money to buy us clothes and stuff to start school. So we started in October. I remember that because when my mother sent me with a lunch and a tablet I think. And we walked, it was a little town called Appleton from where we lived in the farm in Grand Junction. We lived five miles out of town. And the next community was called Appleton and that's where the school was. So we walked that way. Oh, it must have been a mile or so that we walked. And so they took me and all the kids that were in school, since I was the new kid, they all crowded around me and I didn't know how to speak English. So they thought I was some kind of a novelty or something.
Line 46	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And they talked about me in front of me, but I couldn't understand too much. But when we went in and the teacher said, sit around in the little chairs in a circle and they handed me a book. And I opened it and I couldn't imagine what that little bird was doing hanging upside down on that thing. Until the kids came around and said, no, you have to hold it this way. Then the bird was sitting right on the spout. But it was really cute because all those little kids tried to help me. And where I couldn't speak English, I would just smile, you know, and they all thought that was really neat that I couldn't speak. There was one or two more Mexican kids that I knew that were there, but they had been in school before, you know. Anyway, I had a beautiful day in school, but the teacher wrote a note to my mother and said, please not to send me to school until I learned English. So I never went back to school. Nobody taught me and my brother could speak English. He was already in the fifth or in the sixth grade. So nobody ever taught me and I never, I guess I just never asked.
Line 47	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So when we moved into town during the bad part of the Depression, I guess it was 1936 or something like that, 1937. Something like that. I was already about seven years old, eight years old. And I taught myself to read anyway. My dad had taught me how to read and write in Spanish, but for some reason I did not connect the Spanish with the English. Of course I didn't have much exposure either, but when we moved into the town of Grand Junction, my mother, we had a, there was this man that let his houses, his little houses out, free of rent to the real poor people. And we only had to gather up a little money to help him pay the water. And he was really nice.
Line 48	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And so that's where we moved because my sister's parents lived there and grandparents and they're the ones that got us the house. Well, we went into this tiny little two room house and my mother said, oh, it was terribly dirty. It was full of smoke inside. You could tell just probably bums had lived there and cooked in the middle of the floor and the walls were just full of smoke. But behind the door, there was a great big old stack of Saturday evening posts and Collier's magazines. So my mother made some paste out of some flour and water and and papered the walls with these magazine pages. That's where I learned how to read and write English because I would dope out the letters. And finally, at that age, I was already seven and eight years old. I was able to dope out the meanings with the letters that in Spanish that I had learned. It took me that long.
Line 49	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Anyway, I learned how to speak English and how to read. It was really wonderful because to me it opened a great big new world to me. And so that that that fall I went to school and we went to a little school called the Riverside School. It was right next to the river in a nice little there was a park and there was the railroad went right by. And this little schoolhouse only had the four grades first, second, third and fourth and the library in one room. Well, one little building was in one little building. And it was really nice. The teachers were really good.
Line 50	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And that's where I learned how to read better. And oh, there for a while I was the smartest kid in the first grade. You were eight years old? I was eight years old. I was smarter than all of them. I could read and write Spanish and read and write English. So that made me the interpreter for the teachers also. So it was really neat.
Line 51	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: I really enjoyed those four years there. I was such a smart kid, except math was the thing that I wasn't too good at. But the teachers would always tell me if you would if you would get to know your math better, we would put you a grade higher. But it was too comfortable, I guess, for me. It didn't really matter. But I really enjoyed that. And then, excuse me, and then from there we had to go to school across town, which was the fifth and the sixth grade. And that's where I learned that I wasn't as smart as I thought I was because the work got harder and the children were not very friendly.
Line 52	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And I was the only Mexican kid in the two classes. We had fifth and sixth grade in the same room. And every time the teacher asked me what my name was, all the kids turned around and stared at me. And that made me feel kind of bad. She would say, what is your name? Victoria Archuleta. And they'd all turn around and look at me. What a funny name. And then one day we had to get up and say what nationality we all were. So of course she started with the first row and the second and third. When it got to be to me, I said I was Spanish American, Mexican Indian. And that caused a commotion. The teacher said, that's right. That's what she is. Because Mexicans have Indian blood and Spanish. And she is American. So I was the center of attention for a minute or so.
Line 53	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: But I didn't really appreciate it because I was really shy. It was a good experience, although I was kind of timid and I did feel kind of put down every once in a while, especially when we had to walk to school with those signs everywhere. But it was all together, it was nice. And then I was in the tenth grade when we moved to Oregon. So I very slyly dropped out of school. And we were in Oregon. My dad said, you have to go to school. And I made all kinds of excuses and reasons why I couldn't go. So I didn't.
Line 54	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So after we came here, I went and took that course in electricity. I got really good grades. And I used to make up some of the neatest connections at home with the lights and the lamps and the radio. It's a wonder I didn't electrocute myself. But I did used to really like it. And then I went to Links School of Business after I came out of the service. And I got good grades there too, only I didn't do anything with them. I just went to work as a waitress.
Line 55	Angela Luckey: But years later then you took the course in child?
Line 56	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Years later, when my, let me see, I had already had eight children. I had always said that when I send my last child to school, I was going to go to school. Because I wanted to be a teacher. Well, in the meantime, after my, let me see, I had six children. And then four years, yeah, four years later I had another little boy. And the reason I didn't go to school after that was because I went to work in the hospital.
Line 57	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: I worked in what was called the central service supply. And where we worked with autoclaves and we sterilized water and instruments and stuff like that. And since I had been in the service, they asked me to go and work there. I had a friend that asked me to go to work there. So I didn't pay much attention to going to school anymore. But in the meantime, I had had my seventh child, and that maybe died. He was two years old and he died. And I was still working in the hospital at that time.
Line 58	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So I immediately thought I had to have more children, so I had two more. And so the others had all gone to parochial school. So when I had these other two, I didn't send them to parochial school. We started out in Head Start. I sent my first little girl the Head Start, and everybody had to put in ten days in Head Start, the parents, to help their children and help whatever. So I went and I really liked it. I thought, wow, this is the closest to a teacher I'll ever get. So after I put in my ten days, I asked the director if I could keep going back.
Line 59	Angela Luckey: And she said, yes. So I did. I kept going back.
Line 60	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And when Elisa, my next to the last child, went into the elementary school, I had the lorry at home. So I went with her. And they finally decided to employ me. They started paying me for going, so. But I really enjoyed it. And there I took lots of training for, even, was able to get a, what was it, a CBA certified children's, what? Child Development? Yeah, it had to do with child development. And it was in accreditation, what do they call that? What is that? Associate degree. Associate degree, yeah. And I got that. And like I said, I really enjoyed it. I think I worked fifteen years that I got paid for fifteen years working there. But, oh, it was about a year before I retired that I started working just part time.
Line 61	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: But they used to call me a lot. They used to call me, even after I retired, I went back several times when they needed me. I had asked them that if they needed me, you know, I could go. So I did. I would make my time, work my time around so that I could go and help them. And like I said, I really enjoyed it. But when my husband retired, I retired also. So now I'm just a grandmother and a great-grandmother.
Line 62	Angela Luckey: I'm going to back up a little bit. When you were talking about living in that housing place where the man was realizing he gave him some money to help you with the water. You mentioned that your sister's parents and grandparents got you in there.
Line 63	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, my sister's grandparents had three children, two girls and a boy. And the reason we met them was because they were thinning beets across the road from where we lived in the little farm in Grand Junction where my dad took care of the cows and milked them and all that. They had to help process the milk. And they were working their topping beets. The boy was the same age as my brother. So he kept going back and forth taking them water and sandwiches. And then in the evening he invited them to come over. They had two girls and one boy. So he was just about 14 or 15. So something like that. Anyway, that he brought them over to meet my mother and my dad. And so they became really good friends. So we used to go visit them. Oh, every other Sunday we would go into town and visit them. Every other Sunday they'd come out to visit us at the farm. So we got to be real good friends.
Line 64	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And so, well, the oldest daughter got married and the youngest daughter got married. And then they all, at this time, we went to live in Grand Junction in the town because the farmer had lost all his farm and everything. During the Depression he couldn't pay my dad anymore. So we moved into this little place where my sister's grandparents asked him if we could live there. So we went there. We lived about three yards away from each other. And so we were always constant friends. And when the girls got married, of course they started having children. And each time that the one, her name, the oldest girl's name was Patsy. The second one was Ramona. And the boy was Gilbert. And the grandmother was Pomocena. And the grandfather was Marcial. He was part Navajo Indian. Anyway, the girls got married and started having children. So Ramona, the second daughter, would ask my mother and my dad to baptize the babies. Well, they had one and it died. And they had another one and it died. And the third one lived to be four years old. But then he died.
Line 65	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: So they had another little boy. And he was two years old when my sister was born. When they had the baby girl, the mother, Ramona, was suffering of tuberculosis. And she was very, very sick. And the doctor had told her not to have any more children. Well, she wanted a little girl. All those others that had died were little boys. And the one that was living was also a little boy. So it's funny that they were such good friends. And one day my mother said, oh, I would like to have one more baby girl. Because all they had was me. And I was a tomboy. So she said, I would like to have one more baby girl. And of course, at that time, Ramona said, well, don't worry, Florencia. I'll have a baby girl and give it to you. Everybody was healthy and well and happy. And they just laughed about it. Sure.
Line 66	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: She used to play paper dolls with me, and she used to teach me how to bake. She sewed beautifully, and she embroidered. Oh, she was really talented. And I really was attached to her quite a bit. So I always said that if I ever had a little girl, I was going to name her Ramona, so I did, my oldest daughter. Anyway, that they would not adopt the baby legally to my mother and dad. But when we went to Nyssa, Oregon, my dad and mom, of course, asked permission to take her with them. And then, of course, eventually he got married and had family, and he had kept the boy with her brother. And so that's how come we got a baby sister. I was 14 years old, and my two brothers were younger, and we just doted on that baby. We just spoiled a rotten, that was all there was to it. She's 50-some-odd years old, and she's still spoiled. So it was really wonderful for us, because we really thought that was neat.
Line 67	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, it seemed like after all this time when she did have that baby girl, Ramona was very, very ill. And she was not supposed to have any more children. But since she did have that baby girl, the doctor said that she was not going to make it. And so the baby was 15 days old when she and her deathbed told her husband that she wanted my mother and dad to have that baby. And she said, anyway, it's not going to live very long, the doctor said. And see, her mother and dad were too old to take care of a tiny baby. Her sister had about six of her own already. And her husband's family weren't able to take care of her. So she wanted my mother and dad to have that baby. So we see, and they named her Eleanor Vivian. And of course, their last name was Carvajal. Anyway, my mother and dad baptized her and brought her home with them about three yards away, brought her home. And then three months later, well, three months from the time the baby was born, the mama died, Ramona. I always used to say that when I had kids, if I had a girl, I was going to name her Ramona too, because I really liked that lady.
Line 68	Angela Luckey: You've done a lot of kinds of work. Were you always paid in money, or were you paid otherwise?
Line 69	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, you mean for when I worked for the railroad? For all the different jobs you've had? Yeah, we got paid. Well, I was on the railroad payroll twice, because I worked for them out in the scrap docks, and in the roundhouse at times. I swept the roundhouse, and then I worked as a waitress in their beanery. And it was at different times that I did, and I was on their payroll. And your parents got paid? Oh, yeah. So there was no kind of trade? No. No, and we traded in the stores. Like I said, we had credit in the stores. We didn't pay money right away. But in Grand Junction also, when my dad worked out in the fields, yeah, they got paid money. They could take some of the produce if they wanted to, but I remember those great big beautiful peaches my dad used to bring home. Gorgeous. They were so good. And apples that they bring. Yeah, it was really, there wasn't much money, but they did get paid.
Line 70	Angela Luckey: Were there any differences in the way that the men were treated and the women were treated in your jobs, in the different jobs you did?
Line 71	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: When we first started working in the railroad, there were lots of women working in the railroad already because of the war. But they weren't treated differently at that time because they were needed, I guess. And actually, it was kind of a have to kind of thing because there were sending so many able-bodied men out to the services. And there were lots of older men working. You know, my dad was in his 50s and 60s at that time. And there were quite a lot of older men and women also, like there were lots of young ones too. But this railroad here was such a big place and such a central point out here. There was lots and lots of people, lots of workers, three shifts at night. So it was quite crowded, like I said. There was the braceros that came in from Mexico and the airfield out here. And that was it.
Line 72	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: In Nyssa, Oregon was where they had a camp for the Japanese people. You know, they gathered all the Japanese Americans and put them in a camp. They weren't very well treated. But here in Pocatello, I didn't notice any of that. I understand they had a German camp somewhere, but I didn't, of German prisoners, but I didn't, don't know where.
Line 73	Angela Luckey: It was just your family that lived in the household, or was there anybody else, your grandparents?
Line 74	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: No, my grandparents on both sides died when my parents were real young. But there were about three boys that came with us from Grand Junction in the same, oh there was lots of people that came from Grand Junction, but three boys that wanted to work with my dad because my dad only had the two boys, and they wanted to work with him. So they lived with us. That was Felix Gonzalez and his brother, Pifi Gonzalez, and another boy, oh there were two others, but I can't remember their names. But the ones that stayed with us, yeah, there were Pifi and Felix, which stayed with us all the time even when we came to Pocatello. So they're kind of, we regard each other as family, you know. They stayed with us all the time.
Line 75	Angela Luckey: And did your dad own his house where he lived in Pocatello? Not at first. This house he bought.
Line 76	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh yeah, he had a house up on North Third. Yeah. They bought that house right after I went into the service. They bought that house, and they lived there until 1955. And then they bought this house. And that was quite something because my dad had bought some property up in New Mexico, and we were going to go back to New Mexico and build a house there. He was going to make it out of Vadobis like everybody else had a house like that. And it was really neat to think about, but then we never did go. He sold the property, and so he bought, that's when he bought the house here, up on North Third by the flour mill.
Line 77	Angela Luckey: So what would you say is the most important thing about Pocatello to you?
Line 78	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, everybody has an opportunity to do what they want. You know, there's education, there's ISU. My brother graduated from ISU, and I took classes there a lot. And like I said, some of my grandchildren will be there. My children attended one year each, I think. But the opportunities in Pocatello are, I would say, pretty good because I always felt that we were pretty well accepted here. And we're not real, real poor, but maybe we're not completely middle class either, but it makes for a pretty comfortable life that we've had here. And in case there is any prejudice, we have learned to kind of defend ourselves. We aren't timid like we used to be, and I brought my children up that way. When anybody called them names, I would tell them, you tell them, well, that's all right. I might be a Mexican, but I'm not dirty, and you might even be dirtier than me. But in good words, I never let my children fight. My brother used to get mad at me because he'd tell me, you're teaching these kids to be nothing but sissies and not fight. I said, no, that's not my way, and I don't want them to fight. If they're going to come up against prejudice because somebody doesn't like them because they're Mexican, well, that's those people's problem, not my kids. Because they have been taught to respect other people. And of course, they never lived among that kind of stuff like we did. We used to have people calling us all kinds of names. Of course, we weren't very nice sometimes either. We'd call them back. So we lived around a lot of Italians, and of course, what we called gringos. But the prejudice was never anything here like it was back there. So this is why I have always liked Pocatello, and I'm planning to stay here.
Line 79	Angela Luckey: And you've lived in this, your mother lived in this house?
Line 80	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Yeah, my mother and dad bought this house and the property in the back, which was my house, I raised six children over there. And of course, they had the run of grandma and grandpa's house. And then when my dad died, my husband and I and my last two little girls came to live in the basement apartment of this house. And we didn't stay much in the basement department. We stayed up here most because my mother was alone. And then eventually all the kids were there. Well, my children all kind of moved out and got their own jobs and had their own places to live in. So there was only the two last ones. There were six big ones and two little ones. And Elise and Lori were the little ones, and they were just going to grade school when all the others were grown up already. And eventually some got married, like I said, and some are still single. And we lived back and forth with my mother, and my sister finally decided she wanted to live in the house in the back where I had lived. So when my mother died, the house was mine, you know, and the little house back there is my sister's. So we've gotten along pretty good and never lacked for anything.
Line 81	Angela Luckey: Do you recall any special scenes or expressions that were used in your family? Oh, yes.
Line 82	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, my mother used to, when she would get really irritated at something, she'd say, I don't know what it means, but she would always say that. And the kids always remember her saying, which was really funny to them. They didn't understand what it meant, but they still remember it now, and they always tell each other that. But, oh, yeah, my dad had lots of sayings. I can't remember right now what they were, but he was always a real mellow type of man. However, he had a pretty bad temper. Remember that model T Ford I was telling you about? One night it wouldn't start when we were clear out among the hills where they had been working. And the car wouldn't start. And he was so mad, he told my mother, bring me the axe. And she went over, she thought he wanted to make a hole underneath the car or something, so she went and got the axe and he took it from her and was starting to beat the car up with it. And she took it away from him. No, no. She'd break the car. How are we going to get home? So he had a bad temper, and he was funny. My children always remember how funny Grandpa was. He was always making faces and always aggravating my mother because he acted young. He played with the kids. And he really enjoyed the children. And my mother was always too businesslike. She just couldn't tolerate. If a kid would make a mark on the wall, she would really get uptight, you know, like riding on the wall like the kids do and crayons. She would really get aggravated, but my dad didn't. He thought that was cute. And that's the way I am. I think it's really cute that the kids leave their handprints on the mirror and all that.
Line 83	Angela Luckey: Do they still live nearby, or where do they live?
Line 84	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, my oldest brother died when he was about 56 years old. He died of cancer of the liver. But he had been in the service, and he had worked quite a bit. His name was Jose Miguel. He used to call himself Joseph Mitchell. But he had kind of a colorful life. When he was 20, he enlisted in the Air Force. And then just a little bit before the war, he went AWOL. And we were always told not to say where he was, although we knew where he was. And we knew that he had changed his name. So he used to write to us all the time and let us know where he was. But since he deserted before the war, you know, they didn't really make too much out of it. I imagine they looked for him, but he was in a town in Idaho named Council when we were living in Nyssa. So one day we went and picked him up and took him to Nyssa with us. And then when we came to Pocatello, he enlisted in the service under that same name that he was using, which was Richard Madrid. And he enlisted in the service, and he went clear to India. And the war wasn't over yet, and he was in that district. Well, I can't remember what they called it, but it was in the Mid-Eastern places. And we have a picture of him there. And he used to send us pictures and lots of little things from India. But the day, oh, he'd been out a month. He'd been out of the service a month when the FBI came looking for him. And things got straightened out. There was a little bit written in the paper about it, and that was it. He put in his time anyway in the service.
Line 85	So they, I guess they pardoned him. And my youngest brother, yeah, he was two years younger than myself, and that's Jose Luis. He died in an industrial accident in Boise in 1967. He already had five children. He had divorced once and married again. So he has five children that he left. And his oldest son, Luis, worked down in Florida and in California with the NASA program. And the second one lives in Fort Hall. And I don't know what he does. He was a fireman there for a while. And the third son works as a reporter and radio announcer. And right now I think he's working in construction, I'm not sure. I don't see them very often. And the other two from the second wife live in Nampa. My niece is an inhalation therapist, and she works in Payette, I believe. And the brother, I don't know what he does. I think he works for a trader company. He saws wood, kind of like a carpenter, I guess. I really don't know. But that's his family. My oldest brother never married, so he never... And then my youngest brother went to ISU, graduated as a teacher. And he taught from the first grade up, I think, up to the sixth grade, and then he went to work for the University of Utah. To tell you the truth, I don't really know what it is he did, but now he's retired and he's counseling. He's doing a lot of counseling to the... Especially the Mexican people, the Mexican students that are having a hard time in school. He helps them. And then for the longest time, he worked in that Guadalupe Center, teaching English to the people that came in from Mexico, Puerto Rico, and even Chinese and Laotian people, teaching them English. And he's had a very full life in education, and he's still enjoying it. And my sister, since she was very sickly when she was born, she has always been kind of sickly. And recently she had been quite ill. But she lived, they said she wouldn't, but she's 51 years old. So like I said, everything's been pretty good for us. Our children are all working. And I just love my grandchildren.
Line 86	Angela Luckey: Do you have some customs and traditions that your ancestors had?
Line 87	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: I mean, cultural kinds of things? Well, whenever we have too many green chilies, we string them up in a ristra, like they did in New Mexico. My dad taught us how to do that. And you see, I have one my brother brought me. And we use a lot of chile colorado, and we eat a lot of tortillas, only we make them out of flour. We don't use the corn an awful lot. But I remember when we were younger, my mother and my dad used to make pies out of prunes and raisins. Everybody around, when I tried to make one for my children, no way do they like them. But we loved them. Of course, down in New Mexico, that's about the only fruit they could preserve during the winter. They'd dry apples and dry plums and raisins and stuff. I know they had that kind of fruit during the winter, and they made quesos from milk. And they drank a tole, which is the dried corn, and then they grind it into a fine powder, and they mix it with milk and boil it. And put cinnamon in it, and it's delicious. I tried to feed that to my kids, and they don't like it. But we did, and we won custom from New Mexico that my dad always used to do, is cook the beans with dried corn. He would soak the corn and clean the beans and put them all together in a bucket, and then dig a hole outside in the dirt, and set a fire in it, and then take out all the cinders and put the bucket of beans and cover it with a moist sack, and then put dirt over it. And all those beans would be delicious by the evening.
Line 88	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And if he had a little salt pork he'd put in them, those beans were so good. And of course, here, and he would cook corn that same way, corn on the cob, leave the husks on it, and build a hole, and take out the fire afterwards, and just put them in the hole and cover them up with lots of wet gunny sacks, and then put a top on it and put dirt on it. We tried that once. We burned it all. It was awful. We had bought a whole gunny sack full of corn, and we were going to do what Grandpa did with it. All the corn husks were burnt to a crisp, and the corn tasted awful. But those were cooking customs that they had. And then, of course, the Christmas holidays, when we were young, weren't celebrated anywhere near like people celebrate now. The way they used to talk, they would make plays and posadas, and they had a play that they'd make called Los Matachines. And according to the way they said, it was quite a pageant, and very colorful. They would oust Satan out of heaven and throw him to the ground, and then they would have skits that would talk about why. My dad used to remember all those lines, and he used to recite them to us. It was really fun to listen to him, but we never saw it. We never saw it when we lived in Grand Junction. Nobody did anything like that. The only thing we did that they taught us was that we'd go from house to house and say, Merry Christmas, and they would give us all kinds of goodies at each door. They'd be prepared. This was mostly the people from Colorado, because the people from Mexico didn't know that. You were like posadas? No. It might have been a splinter from
Line 89	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: that, because, see, we'd go from house to house, but we didn't say anything other than, Merry Christmas. And the people would open the door for us, and they'd either feed us there or give us goodies to take home. I remember they used to give us little empanaditas and bunuelos and atole, if we would come in and give us atole, and candy, Christmas candy. So it was fun for us then. However, it didn't last very long because we got too big and we didn't do that anymore. But it was kind of like trick or treat here. But, oh, they're nice memories, you know. And another thing that my parents did a lot, it was done in Grand Junction a lot, was to have velodrios. And they would rig up an altar in the corner of the room. And this is where my sister's mother, when she was young, she just used to love to decorate that altar. My dad would make the altar and her dad would help, and they would put linen scarves on it and then decorate it with crepe paper. And then they would bring all their images that they had, you know, their statues of the Virgin Mary and all the others. Lots of them had different ones, big ones and little ones, and from the neighborhood they'd bring all their statues. And then they would spend the night, the evening and the night, praying the rosary and singing alavados, they called them. I just used to love to hear them. And then they would take a break and then they'd come back and say another rosary and more songs.
Line 90	And then at midnight we'd feed the people, and there was always chile and, what else did they feed them? Oh, beef, roast, I guess, roast beef, and chile colorado and tortillas and buñuelos. And lots of the people would get together and bring in food. And the one thing we never had was tamales or enchiladas because we didn't know anything about them, you know. The people from Colorado at that time didn't have that influence from Mexico, I guess. Mostly because we never got along. The people from Mexico didn't like the people from Colorado and New Mexico at that time. Didn't get along at all. So I remember that, and then at midnight everybody would go home after they'd eaten. And it was always really nice. I really enjoyed it. I was just a kid, you know, and I really enjoyed that. I really liked to hear the singing. And lots of people knew those songs. I never heard them in church. These velodios, were they for a week? A week? Yeah. Did they get a person? No, no. They were just celebrating the saints, celebrating the fact that they were kind of, Catholic, I guess. I don't know. That was a very old-fashioned tradition because after I was about, well, when we came to Oregon, I was 17, like I said. They hadn't had them for a couple of years or so then. Maybe five years. Nobody had them anymore. When did they have them? Oh, along the time when I was about seven, eight, nine, ten. But I mean, what time of the year? Was it any season? I don't remember that. I don't remember if it was anything probably. Well, All Saints Day is in October, isn't it? November. November. November. Maybe it was then. I don't remember. I've never heard of that before. Yeah, and like I said, they made those probably once a year. The community of the people that were from Colorado, you know, the manitos, they would come from all over to come to those advientos.
Line 91	Angela Luckey: So religion was pretty important in your family?
Line 92	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I imagine so. They made us go to church and dotrina and all that. Yeah, my dad, well, being that they were raised out in the farms, out in the ranches, away from the churches, they didn't get mass but once a month. And so I think they were kind of used to that. Because my mother and my dad, I don't remember. They attended church in the holidays. And whenever we had what they called a mision, they would send a priest that spoke Spanish. And we'd have the whole church to ourselves. And they'd even teach us Spanish hymns. And I really liked that. I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot more of the Catholic religion during those times than I did in English. For when I was young, you know. And of course we always went to catechism. And my brother, Jose Miguel, went to a parochial school until he was about 15.
Line 93	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: But I never got to go because we were too poor. By that time they couldn't afford to send me and my brother Louis. So that's when we went to the local public schools, yeah. But religion did play quite a bit. My mother used to say her novena pretty often. La novena del Santo Nino. And her, oh, and I can remember when we lived out in that farm, my brother's padrino of baptism, he was an old sheep herder. And he'd come to stay with us in the winters. And he would have us. Every night we kneeled and prayed the rosary and said the stations of the cross no matter what. And me and my brother Louis would be. And my dad would go like that. There we are. And my mother had a rug on that front room where we all kneeled that was made out of straw. It was real pretty, but oh, that was hard on the knees. It was so hard we'd get up and we had all these ridges on our knees. And his name was Sanovio. And he had us praying and praying and praying and we'd get so sleepy. It was just me and my little brother. My oldest brother prayed only if he felt like it half of the time he was goofing off. But me and Louis had to sit, kneel and pray right next to my dad. And if we looked like we were even going to whisper to each other, he'd have us. But when he came, and he was there every winter. Every winter. Until we moved up town. He left my dad a big book called La Historia Sagrada. And he had taken some deer skin and put a cover to it. And just until this spring when my brother Robert was here, I gave it to him. It's been here all along. And well, my little brother was born in 1926, so we've had it since then. So I took it to him. I thought he might like to read it, but I doubt it. Maybe I'll just ask him for it back. Because it's our own move. Yeah, it is.
Line 94	Angela Luckey: So tell me a little bit about what you did to socialize at Pass Your Free Time.
Line 95	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, when we were little, we used to go to the different farms where they would celebrate birthdays. And they'd give Las Mananitas as a serenade. And we'd go. My dad would borrow the wagon from his employer. It was a huge, about as big as this, maybe bigger, as the table. And my mother would put blankets and pillows in it. And my dad and her would ride in the seat, you know, those seats that bounce up and down. And they'd hitch two horses to it. And me and my brother would be laying in the back looking at the stars. Oh, it was nice. And they'd take us to the next house. They'd pick up neighbors. And there was this one lady, her name was Seva Estiana, La Selya, and her husband, Zon Pancho. And he played the guitar, and she sang beautifully. You could hear that woman singing all over the whole valley, I think.
Line 96	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And to sing Las Mananitas in that beautiful voice, that just used to fascinate me. And her husband had a great big old white mustache. It was huge. And he would pay the guitar like this. He'd put the guitar up like this, and he'd play. And she'd sing, oh, I just love to hear them. We must have been about eight, nine, oh no, not even that old yet. Six, what I, six years old, five. And she was the one that made tamales. And that's how we got acquainted with tamales, although my mother never made them, never made them. So in our teenage years when we lived in town, we didn't eat tamales. But that lady was the one that made them. And she'd make sweet tamales with raisins in them. Oh, they were delicious. And this one time we went to celebrate somebody's birthday that lived in a town called Loma. And we stayed there, I think, three days. Oh, that was fun. The ladies made cakes, they made, what's that called? With the bread and the raisins. Capitota. Oh, that was good. And they made all kinds of meat, all kinds of vegetables.
Line 97	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And one of the daughters, which was younger, made beautiful cakes with chocolate frosting. Oh, we had never had such a wonderful time. And we, like I said, we stayed there three days. They had a violin and a guitar, and they danced until the wee hours of the morning. Everything was so nice, you know, there weren't any discrepancies in anything. Really, everybody. And some of the people were from Mexico because when we lived in the farm, I told you across the road from us, these people that came from Mexico lived there, and we got acquainted with them. And my mom and dad got acquainted with them, and they used to have these fiestas in their house. And eventually, when my little brother was born, they baptized him and had the great big fiesta for that. And I remember that's the first time I had ever eaten pineapple. And I guess since they came from Mexico, they were used to having that type of fruit. I had never seen it. You see, I was born in 24, Robert was born in 30. That meant I was four years old.
Line 98	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: That's when he was baptized. I was just four, and my brother was two. And they had, for dessert, they had pineapple in little plates. Oh, I thought that was the most delicious stuff I had ever eaten. They didn't fix it up in any way, just out of the can. And that was just wonderful. Oh, we had eaten all kinds of canned fruit. My dad and my mother used to, you know, since they were more or less ate more gringo style than Mexican. We ate beans and potatoes and macaroni, like I told you. We ate a lot of macaroni and meat, chicken. My mother always made chicken soup and stuff like that. But when it came to making... If mama cooked anything that looked for her and we didn't like it, because we were so used to eating, oh, she made pudding, what they call natias. She used to make a lot of that, tapioca. And so we never got used to eating tamales. As a matter of fact, the sweet ones, I remember we ate when that lady used to make them. And when we moved to Grand Junction, we didn't cook like that either, because the neighborhood didn't. Everybody was from New Mexico or from Colorado. But my little sister's mother married a man from Mexico. And that's when we started to eat sopadillaros and enchiladas. And that was it, I guess, because I don't remember eating caperotada until much, much later. And I don't know if my mother already knew how to make it and never had, or if she learned to make it. But it was really good. And then another thing my dad used to make was bunuelos. He used to make those huge bunuelos and then make a sauce out of water, sugar. I think he burnt the sugar and then put raisins in it and cinnamon. And then he put the bunuelos in there and it would soak up all that. Oh, that was good. I made some a few years back when I worked for Head Start, and everybody liked it. I haven't made any since then. That reminds me.
Line 99	Angela Luckey: Go in and make some now. Tell me about your singing.
Line 100	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, well, when I was about, well like I said, I always enjoyed singing, and this lady, I think, was an incentive to me. Because I can remember I used to pick up every little tune that I would hear and I could sing it. My dad and my mother used to think that was really strange because they thought I was really smart because I could pick up all kinds of tunes like that from different people. This lady used to sing, Las Mananaitas del Rey Davil, and I could sing that tune. And of course, like I said, I was only about four around that time. Well, anyway, I think that she was sort of an incentive for me because I loved music. And my mother and dad had an old phonograph and they had an old Bing Crosby record or somebody that sang Bye Bye Blackbird. And I knew it. I couldn't read, but I knew exactly where that record was all the time. I could bring it out and play it. And then when we moved into town, of course, like I said, there was always people that played a guitar. Anywhere you looked, there was somebody that played a guitar. Anyway, I was already about twelve when these people lived across the alley from us, right there in the same little community where we lived. And he played a saxophone and the guitar and a banjo. And I just used to love the hearing. Well, anyway, I started to learn how to play the guitar with my old Lydia Mendoza records.
Line 101	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And I messed around with the little guitar my dad bought me until I learned how to make it sound like it did in the record. So I thought I invented it, you know. Anyway, I could sing El Noviero the way she played it. And I sang, oh, we had, that's one I remember the most. And I could make it sound just like she did. And then of course when they did Las Mananitas, I could play that on the guitar too, chord it, you know. And so I went on to experimenting with my fingers and watching people. This man used to come and he just used to love to sing. Any occasion he would sing, he'd bring his guitar. So I learned a lot from him. I used to really watch him. And then there was the little house dances and parties that they'd have people play guitars and sang mostly. And so I learned how to sing a toto nilco from this man and he showed me how to use my fingers and the chords. And so then this man that lived across the alley, they used to ask him to go play at different dances, house dances, you know.
Line 102	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And so he needed somebody to play the guitar so he asked me. Of course I thought I was really neat. I was about thirteen or so. And he used to teach me with his feet he'd keep the time so I could keep the time with the guitar. And he played the saxophone and other men played the violin and other men played, sometimes we had a mandolin and sometimes an accordion I think. I'm not sure, but I was the only one that played the guitar so I had to really keep that beat going. And he'd teach me, he'd play his saxophone and beat with his feet on the floor and I could keep up with him pretty good. So I did that quite a big pay us two dollars a night each when we went. And I played at several dances and lots of times we used to make our own out in El Patio. We'd put water on the ground and we'd sweep it up and it would get hard. And boy you should see the dances we'd held outside. We were about fourteen, fifteen years old. By that time everybody in the neighborhood knew how to play the guitar and sing. There was a couple of girls farther away from us that used to just sing beautifully and they played the guitar too. So while we'd play, two of us would play and the others would dance and then two others would come and play and we could go and dance. It was really funny. We had a lot of fun and then sometimes even the Italian people that lived around the sides there would come out and listen to us play.
Line 103	Angela Luckey: This was in Pocatello?
Line 104	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: No, no, no, in Grand Junction. Because I didn't come to Pocatello until I was eighteen. At that time we used to gather and play and sing. There was my sister's cousins, of course she was a tiny baby, but those cousins that would come in from New Mexico and from, I can't remember, San Luis. And we'd have so much fun just singing and playing the guitars. And that was our teenage hangout at the time, just outside. And I remember my dad and my mother used to let me have all kinds of kids over at the house while there were some of the other girls, which were only about two other girls that lived in the neighborhood. Their dads wouldn't let them invite boys over. But since I played the guitar and I was such a tomboy, I had all kinds of boys at my house and we'd all have really good time just dancing and singing. Just like this one girl used to say, she was from another community they called La Colonia. They were mostly people from Mexico and she used to say. They were jealous of us. And then, like I said, I played for them. And then when we came to Pocatello, I think we had been invited to a birthday dinner to the sasuetas. And then from there we went to a dance, because they invited us to go to a dance.
Line 105	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: And that's where they asked me to sing in that dance. And I didn't know anybody but the sasuetas. And of course Mike played the guitar, and so he's the one that said we would sing. And so I can't remember what it was I sang, but... And everybody thought I was Indian, you know. And they wondered how come Indian sang in Spanish. That's when they decided I wasn't Indian, I guess. But it was really funny because the expression on people's faces, you know, it seemed like they, you know, it seemed like it was strange to see a girl singing and playing the guitar, I guess. I don't know. It just made me feel kind of timid about it, you know. And anyway, that was the same dance where I met Manuel, my husband-to-be. But he was 19 and I was 18. And I never got to see him again until we were in our twenties, because that very next day he went into the service. And I think I got to see him once during that time. He came home on furlough over to the garcias. And I was gone to New Mexico at that time because my dad and I went right around the spring of 1944, I think we went to New Mexico. That's when I told you where he showed me the little place where he had been born and raised called Chaparito. The houses were all lined in caradas, like they say, with red dirt. And it made all the houses look pink. And the trees outside were in bloom and they were pink. They had pink flowers. Oh, it was pretty. I really, really liked that. And he showed me where all the little stores were and where he was young. And anyway, at that dance here in Pocatello is where I met Manuel. And we got married six years later. So we didn't hardly ever see each other before that.
Line 106	Angela Luckey: How was your wedding?
Line 107	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, it was a typical Mexican wedding. And we had a big fiesta. Got married in the church. And we didn't have a honeymoon because he worked. And I think I was working then, too. I was working in that little restaurant. And it was a little Chinese restaurant right there on south, on center, west center. And then this girlfriend of mine that worked in the same restaurant, her name was Julia. And she and her husband were moving out from the apartment up above the little restaurant. And so she let me and Manuel have that apartment and they moved to a house. And so we lived there for a while. And I worked. Well, I think I worked for about a month after we got married. And then we moved. But it was a typical Mexican wedding. Did it go all day? All day and all night? Yeah, we had a big dance over here at the Black People. We had a USO building over here on Pocatello Avenue. And that's where the Mexican people used to hold their dances. And yeah, dances. And so we had a big dance there. But it was like I said, all day people ate and drank. All night people danced and drank.
Line 108	Angela Luckey: Did you have all of that party at that USO place?
Line 109	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: No. Did you have it at home? We had the food at home. We lived on North 4th, the house up there where it isn't there anymore. But my dad and my mother and some of Mama's friends helped her cook. And I don't remember what the food was, but they had lots of it. Lots of people would come in and coming in and out. And then at night we had the dance. What did you wear? I wore a typical veil and long dress, white dress. Was it satin? Yeah, satin. And my maid of honor had a beautiful yellow dress, long, long dress. Did you choose colors? No. We had thought that if she could buy a blue dress, but we went over here, we tried all the stores, and we couldn't find anything that she liked or fit her well enough. So she was real dark. Her name was Rosita Bernal. She's married now. She lives in Louisiana somewhere. She and I went to this Linc School of Business together. She was able to fit this beautiful yellow dress that fit her just beautifully. So that's what she wore. And it was gorgeous, and I was thinking about that dress the other day. I don't remember who I gave it to.
Line 110	Angela Luckey: What did Manuel wear?
Line 111	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, he wore a nice suit. We have a picture in there that if you want to see it, you want to see it right now or later. He wore a suit, and Felix wore a suit. It was all really nice. We didn't have a mask. We just had an afternoon wedding. And there was lots of people who went. Well, all our friends, which were lots of them at that time, all the marillos, all the yzalgozos. I can remember. The girls gave me a shower before I got married. My friends married. I don't remember if Dolores wasn't here. She had already gotten married and lived in California. But it was really typical Mexican wedding.
Line 112	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I shouldn't say typical because down in Grand Junction, when people got married, they went from the place where they ate to the place where they were going to hold the dance, and they played a march. The violin and the guitar first, and then the wedding couple, and then the matron of honor in the back, and then all the people that were eating there would come. And everybody would be all dressed up, and they would go into the place where they usually held the wedding dances. That's why I remember just the one where my sister's uncle got married. And they held the dance in my house because we had a big front room. And they came with the violin and guitar playing the march, but I don't remember what it was. Anyway, they would all come in, and the bride and groom would dance, and then the rest of the people would come in and dance. That was really neat.
Line 113	Angela Luckey: So you made like a little procession?
Line 114	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Yeah, a little procession. But ours wasn't that way because we were more modern already by that time. And besides that, it was about five blocks up. In those days, there was a lot of spirit of nationalism. Yeah, yeah. There was. And the people, another thing that they did back in Colorado was la entrega de los novios. The father, la entregava, la novia, al novio, il reguel papa del novio, the father of the groom would sing the entrega to the father of the bride. And that was made of honor in one of those. I can't remember any of the words nor the tune, but he would sing this offering, offering his daughter to their family. And then the groom's father would accept the offering of their family to theirs and offer their family so that they would all become a united family. It was really pretty, but I cannot remember it.
Line 115	Angela Luckey: So the father had to be good singers?
Line 116	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, yeah. They were. They were. I remember my girlfriend got married when she was 15 and I was her maid of honor, and that's how they did it. And they did the same thing. They had the dinner at her house and then the dance at my house because my house was, they had the bigger front room and so everybody could dance there. But it was really neat. Like I say, I never did learn the entrega. That sounds interesting.
Line 117	Angela Luckey: One last thing I would like you to tell us a little bit about the organization that was here for the Mexican.
Line 118	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Oh, what was it? The organization of Latin American Spanish-speaking friends, I think it was. Oh, Spanish American-speaking people. That's what it was. And it was the organization of it. Latin American-Spanish speaking people. That's what it was. And it was the organization of it. Frank Rodriguez, Mike Huerta, I believe, and Mike Rivera, Arnulfo. What's his name? Juanita's husband's name? Arnulfo. No. Madri. No, no, no, no, no. Juanita's husband? Yeah, Juanita Arnulfo Alvarez. And let me see, and there was myself and Mary Marillo. Well, she was Samaro at that time, I believe. And Julia, Frank's wife, and Juanita Alvarez, and I think Daisy and Guero were in it. Sanchez, Sam and Isabelle, and Penagos. Well, they weren't Penagos yet. Did Bill be loved? Oh, Edgar and Olga, Penagos. And I can't remember Tony Rojas's family. And I can't remember. Oh, Mike Huerta's brother, Johnny, and Vicki Huerta.
Line 119	Angela Luckey: Arnulfo.
Line 120	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Yeah, Juanita Arnulfo Alvarez. And let me see, and there was myself and Mary Marillo. Well, she was Samaro at that time, I believe. And Julia, Frank's wife, and Juanita Alvarez, and I think Daisy and Guero were in it. Sanchez, Sam and Isabelle, and Penagos. Well, they weren't Penagos yet. Did Bill be loved? Oh, Edgar and Olga, Penagos. And I can't remember Tony Rojas's family. And I can't remember. Oh, Mike Huerta's brother, Johnny, and Vicki Huerta.
Line 121	Angela Luckey: What was the purpose of this organization?
Line 122	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, actually, we got together so that we could be a united Mexican community, a Spanish-speaking community anyway. And our goals were to be united and have our own place and gather up money. We had thought about a scholarship for ISU and a social club, mostly social, because we didn't have too many social things here in Pocatello. And we celebrated the holidays in the 16th of September and the 5th of May. And, well, it kind of geared mostly toward a social club. And we held lots of neat things there. It was really a wonderful thing. And I think we lasted six years. It was really nice, though, when we did have it. Actually, we wanted to make it bigger and, like I said, have our own scholarship for ISU. That was our biggest goal. And to be able to help our kids get jobs. Even the teenagers had their own little --
Line 123	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: It was called Latins, and Lewis and Ramona, and all the Rodriguez girls. Oh, it was cute. I don't know what they did much, but right around that time, though, it was, I think they lasted a year right around that time and just kind of started falling apart, all of it. And we didn't put on programs or anything like that except on the 16th of September and the 5th of May. We'd organize all the little kids to sing, the Mexican anthem. And Tony and Johnny and somebody else made a skit one time. Oh, it was the funniest thing you ever didn't see. Tony played this drunken old lady he had on a dress and a hat. I really don't remember, but at the time it was so funny. And the dialogue was really funny. Do you ever remember that cartoon that used to come out in La Prensa, Don Cacabuate, and Don Ceferino, and I don't know. I remember that we could have used, you know, if we had stuck with it. I was one of the die hards. I was one of the last ones that gave up.
Line 124	Angela Luckey: Do you want to tell me what happened to it?
Line 125	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I think that Mexican people don't organize very well because of a lot of reasons. Some could be, oh, I hate to say jealousy, but there's a lot of discord. For several different reasons. Some people pull this way, some people pull the other, and it's actually never united for a long time, for any length of time. I don't know, we're all too, probably too eager, and then there are the people that are lackadaisical about it, and some are kind of think that we can't do anything anyway, so why try it? So a lot of people hang back until it's going good, and then they'll come in. But I don't know, we really thought we had it together when we had that, and then it just started falling apart. But just people, just not getting along together, and not liking other people's ideas, and people not liking other people's background, and prejudice. That's why I say it could have been a really good thing, and it could have still been going now, but for these little nitpicking things that happen, and after that everything else that the kids had started hasn't lasted long.
Line 126	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: This ELO, I wish, would keep on going. My brother was kind of disappointed that it hadn't achieved what we started out to achieve, which was the scholarship fund. But maybe yet, we'll get something done. These kids from ELO are really enthusiastic, and are doing quite a few things, at least sticking together. That's the thing I like about it, even though Claudio laughed already. But I really do wish that Pocatello would get a nice organization together, where everybody could do what their talent is, and what their, lots of people here have lots of good qualities. But like I say, some of it is that we're not too interested. We let our family be more dominant. And then too, we are always afraid that somebody will say this, and somebody will say that. So that's how it goes here. I remember back in Grand Junction, they had organizations too that were really good at times, and then they would fall apart, and then somebody would start them up again. We never belonged to any, but I used to hear about them. But there's always the group that will get things done, and it's always the same group that is called upon to do the others. Well, they'll pay their dues, and they'll be there. And I'm ashamed to say, part of the time, I'm one of those, especially now. But I think that if we really got something going here in town, it would really be worthwhile to everyone. I wish we could see it.
Line 127	Angela Luckey: Is there anything I forgot to ask you about that you'd like to add?
Line 128	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I don't think so. About singing, my mother used to sing a lot too, and my dad, so I got a lot from them. And like I say, I don't remember anything else.
Line 129	Angela Luckey: Well, I want to thank you. It's been great.
Line 130	Victoria Archuleta Sierra: Well, I've had a lot of fun talking.
Line 131	Angela Luckey: That I can do a lot of. I know there's still more stories. You know, we could go on forever, but this is great. Thank you very much.

Valenzuela, Alfredo

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Line 1	Patricia McDaniel: This year, in an interview with Mr. Alfredo Valenzuela of Nampa, Idaho. Today's date is January 8, 1991.
Line 2	Patricia McDaniel: It's already underway. Okay, let's see. Yesterday you started telling me about your story. And did you come from Texas?
Line 3	Alfredo Valenzuela: Um-hm?
Line 4	Patricia McDaniel: And let's see if you can remember me. That thing about the trip from Texas to Idaho and the reasons for all this.
Line 5	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, when I came here. When. When they told me I was coming here, it was good, because I had a brother-in-law who lived here many, many years ago. He had left Texas here, and then he found out he no longer had a job and wanted to come back to Idaho, and I came with him.
Line 6	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then he says, "Let's go to Idaho." Then he says, "Well, I don't know there," he says, "No," he says, "Well, we'll go together." He says, "We'll do it there," he says, "And we'll work," and he says, "Corporal," "We already know how to work on the ranch, and we work on the ranches, and all that's good, and we're coming." First, we went down, and from there we got hired on a truck with some people, and from there we came. We arrived here in May, in '62, in Martha, Idaho, it was snowing, there was a lot of snow.
Line 7	Alfredo Valenzuela: And it was very cold. On May 15th, it was very cold. And no, I didn't believe it. We were in the field forever, and then? Well, to fight there, we had to fight, right? Well, some were already grabbing a quarter, and others here, and others, and they told me, Mr. Valenzuela, you say you're bringing very little family, you say, but here, this is going to be your 4th.
Line 8	Alfredo Valenzuela: And they gave me a small room and some bunks, let's see what they say, eh. Two here, two over there, and a wood stove on one side, eh. Well, my wife never knew how to cook on one of those stoves, and so, uh, they threw us in, and from there, well, this. Well, I didn't know how to work very well, walking, eating beets, having breakfast.
Line 9	Alfredo Valenzuela: Uh, they gave us credit at a grocery store. And then this one, until a good job came along, and then this one. Well, I struggled to start working because I couldn't work or make money on my own, because I was just working, and well, I couldn't. No, no, no, I couldn't, until this one. I went alone and started asking around at the office there at Carmelo, and I said, "I need a better job than this."
Line 10	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I told him, "I have more, well, more commitment for many jobs." I said, "I can't, I can't, I can't, not this one, they can't find me a better job." I said, "A rancher here needs a tractor driver," he said. "This time there would be three, a double, and two." And he said, "Okay," he said, "I'll talk to him." And he went, he called and talked to him at night.
Line 11	Alfredo Valenzuela: And he says, "And I'll let you know in the morning." Then he let me know. And then he gave me a house, and my family and I went to that house. And we worked for a month, and I finished the job very quickly. And then he said, "Well, son, you're done," said the very good tractor driver and everything. "I mean, but I don't have enough iron," he said. "Because you work in an old fort, and you dug very quickly."
Line 12	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I had to go back to the fields. Then another job opened up, the beet harvest started, back in Weiser, and all the men went. And I left my family in Martha. And then we found ourselves over there, and I worked, and well, I couldn't make much money because I didn't know much about beet farming or anything like that.
Line 13	Alfredo Valenzuela: And anyway, when we were done with this, they said, let's go back and bring the family here, to Weiser. And I went, and everyone who came with me had already left. My brother came to Nampa and he was cured. Everyone left, and my wife was alone there at the lake, where there was no one else. Only one other family from San Antonio was there.
Line 14	Alfredo Valenzuela: Except the man had already bought one, and... And then they saw that I was very sad, and I said, "Well, how are we going to do from here?" And they left me alone, I said, "Now what are you going to do?" I said, "I don't have a car or anything." Then Mr. F. came and said, "His name is Lalo, I don't remember his last name." He said, "Why?"
Line 15	Alfredo Valenzuela: What's wrong with you? And then I said, "Well, everyone left. And now how am I going to do it? I don't have much money." Then I said, "Look," and my wife was expecting a baby. There was this one. Waiting, and now, it was almost there, and... Then she said, "Well, look," she said, "I have one." You're going on the wagon with your child.
Line 16	Alfredo Valenzuela: And he said, "I'll take the truck," he said, "the pickup truck," he said, "with another one because he had a lot of kids." He said, "And we'll go together." So he gave me a ride to Weiser. I sent some of our things by train, and off we went. And then we got there and didn't find a house, and from there he rented a little ranch, a little ranch. And he gave me a quarter because I didn't have money to rent.
Line 17	Alfredo Valenzuela: I mean, look, he said, there's a little room. He said it's for you and your family. And I added another one, and he'd have me, they'd have the others, and I'd have just one, and from there, well, that's where we'd be. If not, then we'd have to fight again. And there were eight of them. So, to take care of, to cut.
Line 18	Alfredo Valenzuela: Onion, tapping, onions. And no, I didn't know how to do that job either. I'd never seen it before, and I even cut my finger. I cut my finger, and well, I wasn't completely scared. I said, well, no, I made 200 sacks that day, so for six cents or six cents a sack, I think I made about eight or nine dollars, I think.
Line 19	Alfredo Valenzuela: And so, here I am, I'm going to make my own food. I said, well, I walked another day, yes, to Weiser, to the town, and it was eight miles, and no, well, they hired me there. I'm going to the Implement Office, and they gave me a job unloading trucks. At that time, I thought it was 200, almost 200 books. I mean, I was young, and no, well, um.
Line 20	Alfredo Valenzuela: I got that job, and when I got off work, I walked eight miles there, and again in the morning, eight miles back, to work, walking until I got tired and told Van to put it in. I said, look, I said, you know, I walk eight miles there and eight miles back every day.
Line 21	Alfredo Valenzuela: I need you to lend me money to rent an apartment, I told him why. And then the Japanese guy got scared and said to me. And he said, "So many miles?" He said, "You're walking here and there." He said, "Why didn't you tell me you're a good worker?" And he said, "And you deserve it." He said, "I'm going to lend you $150." And you take your apartment, son, and you buy a lot of food, son, and you come because you're rich."
Line 22	Alfredo Valenzuela: So I grabbed my apartment and went and brought my family that same day, that same afternoon, and I was closer to work. I was about three blocks from work, and from there I worked until the snow started again. It was back to fighting. I'd never seen so much snow like that. The snow was up to my knees, the snow.
Line 23	Alfredo Valenzuela: And no, well, no, there wasn't, there wasn't any more. And my rent was coming up, and I didn't have money to pay the rent. I didn't have money to pay the gas, I didn't have money to pay anything. And I went. And I went to Allende and they helped me. And they didn't want to help me there in court, there was a man who had two flags there.
Line 24	Alfredo Valenzuela: I think he was the oldest there, from. And I said, well, I'm sorry, because I grabbed his hat, I didn't grab the hat, I made him play with the cap and I was there playing with him. I said, well, sir, I said, I want you to see if you can help me. And he gave me some. I told him, I'm from Texas, he said, "So what do you need?"
Line 25	Alfredo Valenzuela: I told him, "Well, I need help." I told him the plain truth. "I have kids. They need warmth, they need something." "Because I need money to pay my bills and all that." Then he said, "Well, you know I didn't bring you from Texas." He said, "I can't help you." So.
Line 26	Patricia McDaniel: And this gentleman was the boss or.
Line 27	Alfredo Valenzuela: Weiser major said, "Not me. I don't help anyone." He said, "Look," he said, "if you have a television, sell it. If you have a car, sell it. You have the most elegant things, jewelry or whatever you have. Sell it," he said, "so you can buy whatever you want." And if you want, he said, "If you have enough." He said, "Sell it so I can kick you." He didn't say, "Because we don't take anyone here."
Line 28	Alfredo Valenzuela: So, I left, very, very sad. I wasn't on the second floor, and then it looked like it was happening like this. And a door started to open, and it narrowed to the sides. It started to do this with the wind. I think, I don't know if it was something like that, but it started to do this, and I saw a lot of baskets of food.
Line 29	Alfredo Valenzuela: So I looked out and there was a woman there, and I said, "Hey, tell me what those food baskets you have there are for?" And well, for the people who come from Texas and don't have anything to eat, I told her. Then I told her, "I just arrived at the, at the, at the very, well, I'm coming from the, I'm coming in need." I said, "Well, I need you to help me in this way, you know, I have so much family," I told her, "my wife and I."
Line 30	Alfredo Valenzuela: So I told him, "Look, I'm going to send you here." And did he say where he lives? I already told him where I don't even remember, but there were about four blocks away from there, from the landslide back then.
Line 31	Alfredo Valenzuela: This pa. When I arrived, because I couldn't walk straight towards the house, except there was a lot of snow and I was walking on a block or half a block and I had to stop in a place where it wouldn't get too cold because it was almost like 10 or 15 degrees below zero and it was getting really cold and I couldn't take shelter from how cold it was and from there for a while and again I would stop and for a while and so on.
Line 32	Alfredo Valenzuela: And until I got home, he got to the food before me. There were already like seven baskets of food. Then another day, some Mormons came.
Line 33	Alfredo Valenzuela: And they tell me.
Line 34	Patricia McDaniel: And the baskets came from.
Line 35	Alfredo Valenzuela: No, they didn't come from that office, from that office. Then some Mormons came to talk to me about the Bible. But back then, when I was a kid, I already knew a little about the Bible. I was Pentecostal back in the day. So I started to tell them something about the Bible. They say, "Do you know a little about the Bible?" I grew a little, and I told them, "I'm already very far from the Bible." I said, "But yeah, I won't forget it."
Line 36	Alfredo Valenzuela: So I said to them, "How would you like to go to our church? We'll help you with whatever you need." So I had to become a Mormon, and I became a Mormon. So they gave me, they gave me a lot of food, they filled my cooler with nothing but meat, and a lot of cans in my, in my, in all the nail I had there, everything there, nothing but cans of food, all kinds, and they paid for my gas, they paid my rent, they gave me a car so I could go to work, and everything. The first car in my entire life, which I'll never forget, but I've never had a car, and that first car they gave me, and I took good care of it, and well...
Line 37	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then they gave me, they gave me school training because I was talking to them about it so I could get a trade. Well, but like I told you, I was two weeks away from getting the diploma, which meant tractors to start working in the county. It was easier for me to go get a ranch, and I went to Green View.
Line 38	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I was there.
Line 39	Patricia McDaniel: Here in the.
Line 40	Alfredo Valenzuela: North.
Line 41	Patricia McDaniel: It is a town.
Line 42	Alfredo Valenzuela: That.
Line 43	Alfredo Valenzuela: It's here next to Monte, and so I came here and stayed there for quite a while, almost a year there in that area, and from there I worked, and of course I struggled a bit. First, they gave me a job on a ranch, because I didn't know the Basques, I didn't know any Basques, so they started the funny thing: he did it in the army, they're not Hungarians because I thought they were Hungarians, right?
Line 44	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then he said. He said No, he said We have. One of them answered me in Spanish. He said We have of of Spain of of on one side of Spain. I said Well, which part of us do we have less of? Let's be Spanish, he said. But we are Basques and he said he had never heard of that. He said I know the Spanish, I said, but the Basques. I told him No, I hadn't heard of the word.
Line 45	Alfredo Valenzuela: So there we were really and then we were.
Line 46	Patricia McDaniel: The family too.
Line 47	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, the family is there with me and we are in a little ranch like this and well, there, there we were for a while, I was working for Sinpla, for example here in De he has the ranch there and then this one day I think the Basque came angry and started scolding me and everything and he told me that I should talk to him or what do you think, you know that then I already left the traitor.
Line 48	Alfredo Valenzuela: There I went home.
Line 49	Alfredo Valenzuela: And well, I didn't drink or anything. Yes, I did drink, but I hardly ever drank at work. And no, no, nobody knew I drank, and no, well, I went home and I walked away, and no, well, and I said, well, I'm going to have to get another job, and I think this guy doesn't like the way I work anymore, but it wasn't that. It's just that his wife, I think, had problems with her or something.
Line 50	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 51	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, and that happens to me all the time, and then you have to pay for it, right? Uh, no, well, I went to another ranch. That one was big back then. So I went to this green. What's that little town called? Green. This is it. I don't remember. What's it called? The Green View. And Bruno continues. I went to Bruno. Further, further on.
Line 52	Alfredo Valenzuela: So from there I got another job, another ranch. I stayed there a little longer until the American who was there. Well, he didn't; he had a wife, but he saw Curcio and he started wandering around and spending all the money. Then he started giving me money that wasn't worth anything, and they changed it anyway.
Line 53	Alfredo Valenzuela: Not because they knew me, right? But the money he had wasn't any good anymore. So I came to see him, I came here, to Pa Nampa, from there, huh? I had a sister, well, the sister who left me there, from here she had come to a 5th-century ranch. She lived here. And she gave me shelter for a few days, and then I got a job as a truck driver, hauling beets.
Line 54	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then. Uh? I started hauling beets, and then I got a little ranch over there for Apple Houston, and he lives there. We lived there quite a bit, until all the work there was over, the beet season and all that. And from there, my husband got a job, uh, back when they slaughtered chickens here in Nampa, and so she would cut, cut up chickens and cut them into pieces, which was a saw, and those that they sell for the marquise, uh?
Line 55	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I also work as a cleaner there at night and we stayed there for a little while and that's where this came from.
Line 56	Alfredo Valenzuela: We started. Let's see if I remember. Let's see, this one over there told me. My husband said, "You know, one of these days you're going to fall asleep in the car and crash," he said, "Let's go to Nampa." So we grabbed a car here in Nampa and then. We came over here and that's when we finally got here.
Line 57	Alfredo Valenzuela: We had a, uh, we were more comfortable wherever we went or wherever they wanted, they treated us well and the Americans here always treated us well and especially me, let's say, they never treated us badly. They never treated me badly at work or wherever I worked, on the ranches, in the beetroot, here we worked in many places, in the beetroot, in the, in the, in the, because later they started to teach us, in that hand.
Line 58	Alfredo Valenzuela: My wife and I, along with my entire family, were hanging out in the beetroot, and I have a picture of it somewhere, and I don't know where it is right now, but I have pictures of us hanging out, my wife and I hanging out in the beetroot, in the trees, in the cleaning, and...
Line 59	Patricia McDaniel: And we can see them later and.
Line 60	Alfredo Valenzuela: I think that saying no, no, we're going to get them now, and we were working on the ranches there. And cheap. But we were there and struggling through all this and until later my wife said, no, she said, it's better to get a job in the town, she said because here she said we're never going to do anything, she said And if one day she said what to do, she said, you're not going to do anything, you're never going to take over any of anyone's farms.
Line 61	Alfredo Valenzuela: And he said, "With the experience you have," he said, "Well, you can get a job, huh?" Well, I speak English, but the only thing I don't know how to do is read. I don't know how to read, not even in Spanish. And I've never had any experience, not even in English, but I speak English and I speak Spanish and I speak a little bit of Indian, a little bit of Spanish, well, but everything.
Line 62	Patricia McDaniel: Also him.
Line 63	Alfredo Valenzuela: And the other side said it, right? A Basque guy there sometimes, and I talk to him. And how? Why does he talk like that? Isn't it like that, he talks to me about himself, that's how I talk, and he also said, well, what, right? And then this one is like that, and that's it. And then until I came here and I didn't have a car, and then I didn't have one anymore, because the car they had given me broke down, and then I couldn't drive this one anymore.
Line 64	Alfredo Valenzuela: A job that could earn me money to buy another car. Then this one. We went to Texas to see my mom. When I came back, they stole everything I had, everything. I didn't know who robbed me. People came in, and I had all the new clothes. My kids' clothes were the same, so they could go to school. And someone came in and stole all my clothes, everything I had.
Line 65	Alfredo Valenzuela: And they left me an old television that I had and a normal cooler. They took everything, they took everything. They left me with nothing and I had to talk. When I came from Texas, I had to ask someone to help me, but they only helped me with the rent for a month and well, this one rented me a house and they paid the first rent and God grant me work that I didn't struggle much to find work and I got a job eh, with a rancher and he didn't work me very hard and very soon I wanted the job very soon and they even took blood from my nose because they wanted a lot of work and and they lift the very large stones and eh, fill
Line 66	Alfredo Valenzuela: I took the truck alone and I ranted and said no. I told him I never back out, but this time he did keep me and thought I was a traitor or something. I said no, because I struggled quite a bit, didn't I? To get back on my feet again. So I bought clothes for my sons, for my daughters, and... I started paying my rent, and from then on, I don't know.
Line 67	Alfredo Valenzuela: I had been sent an unofficial report a long time ago.
Line 68	Alfredo Valenzuela: And many told me that it was because they treated Mexican people very badly there and that's why I was afraid, and so one day I told my wife, you know, when I arrived, what a job they could give me. So I went and applied for a job there, and then they didn't give me a job, well, they didn't give me a regular job, let's say, a standby job.
Line 69	Alfredo Valenzuela: And no, well, I'd already worked for three months, and they gave me layoff. About two weeks later, they called me again, and I went back to work. And I was living, and they gave me the... And again, and so on ...
Line 70	Alfredo Valenzuela: I even sold it. Let me see if I can remember. In 1978, I think seven of them, but it closed down there, but from then on, it was sort of me. I was there until the seventh one, no one knew what to do because they had to take out all the machinery that was in there, and I was a security guard. I even had to be there, watching over the entire business so that no one or anything went to waste during the war.
Line 71	Alfredo Valenzuela: Until they got rid of everything. And then this. I got a job as a security guard in Boise, in Boise.
Line 72	Alfredo Valenzuela: Him. In him. In a bank. Where's the money from, right? The verse. So I was there for three and a half years, so I removed this one back because later when it came more here, well, I almost got sick and became a little blind and couldn't see very well. And then.
Line 73	Alfredo Valenzuela: They gave me glasses, and one day I was playing ball there in the park, I pulled it here, in both, the street, in the east park. I forgot my glasses and they made me a featured player. And so when I told the girl, Alejandro, your mom, who was calling me, that I was bringing my glasses, I forgot them while reading.
Line 74	Alfredo Valenzuela: They're going for a ball here because look, with one eye I couldn't see very well. And then this pa When they came with the glasses I started to see well. Street I don't know what happens, my vision was fixed and then from there they made me again. I went, we went to another one next week that, we went to a game and there was a guy there who was looking for this a feature.
Line 75	Alfredo Valenzuela: So that guy came up to me and said, "You know what he said? I like him so you can take care of us." And I said, "Hey, he and I are too old for me to play on the game." And you guys? I said, "I'm already, I'm 40, and what, I'm 42, 42 years old." 42, 40, and...
Line 76	Alfredo Valenzuela: He was 46, I think. He said, "It doesn't matter to him." I say we're that age. I like it.
Line 77	Patricia McDaniel: Being a pitcher on a professional, professional team.
Line 78	Alfredo Valenzuela: Up there, up there, which is here in the Dragon, in this one.
Line 79	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I have more portraits. I have more portraits here. They took them from me. I had them here. I have. I have many portraits of where I am with the trophies and all that. When I turned 50, when I turned 50, and I have many trophies, by this time I had already won many trophies. In the. In the game that the others won in Baseball, which I still play Baseball, I don't have right now to complete, not in.
Line 80	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I'm still playing ball. I won last year.
Line 81	Patricia McDaniel: Playing.
Line 82	Alfredo Valenzuela: 11. Last year I won the baseball Championship.
Line 83	Patricia McDaniel: So. This is fun, but it's not professional.
Line 84	Alfredo Valenzuela: No, no, it's not just a book that we play here, a slot machine, as the spines call it, as the maps say.
Line 85	Patricia McDaniel: Ignore that. But it's like.
Line 86	Alfredo Valenzuela: It's already space baseball, because already, eh. And then this one.
Line 87	Alfredo Valenzuela: Almost all of my kids played baseball. But this one. And I worked for croquet for 13 years. I don't know much about what I left out. I left because I had problems there, but anyway, we've struggled quite a bit here, so to speak. And look, that little house over there, that old one on the other side, before I came to Bear Side, I immediately bought it, it cost me 3,000.
Line 88	Alfredo Valenzuela: $300 that little house was down because a Mormon who lived in that house over there had bought it. So I had to pay $300 every month. I only had $100 left to pay for it. And then they gave me a layoff, but I was missing a check and the day came, and the day of payment came and they didn't want to wait until the next day or the next day.
Line 89	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then they took my house away for the following reason:
Line 90	Patricia McDaniel: The bank, the bank.
Line 91	Alfredo Valenzuela: When, when that house, when he already said that he had lost that house for just one day because he didn't want to wait. So this house here was on Red, so I couldn't go grab it. It's there. So I couldn't find a way to get in touch with the owner. He and the owner lived in Boise until he himself gave me the number, the phone number and...
Line 92	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then the phone company came in and said, "So he said, I'll come in and then I'll go get the rent." So I came in here and... And this one. And he said, "You just take care of cleaning it." This grass is really big all over the place, and you can't see the face, and well, I came in and the company gives it to him over here, and the company was labeled.
Line 93	Alfredo Valenzuela: I haven't finished putting it together yet, the one on the face is barely there, not long ago we put it together on the inside and I put in new carpet and I put in new flooring here and this.
Line 94	Patricia McDaniel: Also.
Line 95	Alfredo Valenzuela: And him.
Line 96	Patricia McDaniel: That.
Line 97	Alfredo Valenzuela: Be it too. And I was missing it. It was normal that the cold came and I didn't have, I didn't have time and I wanted to put it like on the other side, I wanted to put everything on it, I was going to knock down that portal and everything, but only half of it stayed outside and And it was when you get warmer I put it on the outside, but I already have it here.
Line 98	Alfredo Valenzuela: I'm 18 years old, living in this house for almost 18 years. Then I started paying rent here, and one day, this son, the gentleman.
Line 99	Alfredo Valenzuela: Did he say, like the time he said, "Do you want to buy the place?" I laugh. "How bad do you want it?" He said, "I want 1,500." And I did. At the time, I was drinking beer and said no. I told him, "I don't have any money." "That much." "No, I don't." And anyway, he wouldn't say anything. The next month, I'd give him the rent and go back. And if you want to buy the house, no. Well, I don't have any."
Line 100	Alfredo Valenzuela: I don't have the Down Payment. And he knew I worked every day, but I couldn't afford Down Dumping. Right? And that's how it was until one day at work, they told me, "I heard a CO's name waiting for you, and it was the owner of the house." He said, "You know, I want to talk to you, or what do you want?" Because not many men came to buy this house, and they came with Purchase Checks.
Line 101	Alfredo Valenzuela: So at this time, that house, this house was worth this 6,800
Line 102	Alfredo Valenzuela: Baby. What the house was worth and they paid for it almost. Because it's two lots. It's winter and everything. Oh, and so on. So. My son didn't say, "You know I don't want to sell it." He said, "I want to sell it to Valenzuela." He said, "Because he has a lot of kids, I want to sell it." I didn't always see it, but it's not for when someone sells it to me, because when I go to count $1,500 and my wife was no longer working at that time.
Line 103	Alfredo Valenzuela: Because I had little kids and no, well. Um.
Line 104	Alfredo Valenzuela: He was waiting for me outside of work and said, "Look," he said, "I want to talk to you one more time." He said, "Look," he said, "Let's do one, a business deal." And you said, "Look," he said, "It was the house, and if it's like, 'Oh, I don't like the house, and I like to bring all kinds of things,' you assure me that you're going to keep it clean and everything on the outside."
Line 105	Alfredo Valenzuela: The lot was very clean and everything.
Line 106	Alfredo Valenzuela: He said, "Look," he said. "He didn't want to sell her out to anyone. I just want to stop you. No, it's fine. That's all I want to know." And he shook my hand. He left. Then another day he came back. He brought me a big pile of papers. He didn't convince me. And he said, "Get me out of here until I'm gone."
Line 107	Alfredo Valenzuela: I'm nothing. Down to the last piece of paper. Yes, I mean, the house is yours. So I said, "No, no, well, what happened?" I said, "I didn't see anything." Down said, "No," he said, "The bank will give it to you and you'll give me 100." He said, "One peso," he said, "until you complete this, the 1,500." Then he said, "I already completed the 1,500."
Line 108	Alfredo Valenzuela: It gives me $60 a month.
Line 109	Patricia McDaniel: So keep going. Keep going.
Line 110	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I'm already missing a result because no, I'm not advancing towards the $60 because it's too little. And then I say, okay, and instead of giving it to him, I see that I'm not giving it, you don't need to give it to me. Right now he says don't have it, don't sell me, but he's already dead, now the son is left, and you...
Line 111	Alfredo Valenzuela: It's the same because he has a note on you. No, don't take it away from me. He has a note saying don't take it away from Valenzuela because of his father, and it says that house belongs to Valenzuela. No way. Whatever. No, there's no way he's going to take it away. They tried to take it away from me once, they put up papers everywhere, but I have one.
Line 112	Alfredo Valenzuela: One? I hadn't seen the letter until I opened it. It says there was no one who could take the house.
Line 113	Patricia McDaniel: Who is the Lord? Who is he? Who was the owner? Was he a friend here or...
Line 114	Alfredo Valenzuela: Is he an American? Was he an American? Was he an American?
Line 115	Patricia McDaniel: Mormon?
Line 116	Alfredo Valenzuela: O. Well, yes. I don't know what it was, but it was. It was a "I suppose" Christian. I didn't know him very well, but as I told you, he was a tax collector who came to collect the tax. He says he knows him better.
Line 117	Patricia McDaniel: Good job, your son.
Line 118	Alfredo Valenzuela: And now the son is putting in the work. He's the one in charge, and I've just finished paying him like I sometimes do. Now that my family has grown, I have money, and sometimes it seems like I don't have any money in the bank anymore; the kids take it from me because their cars break down here, and sometimes one gets sick here, another in Nicaragua, over there, and another over here, and no, it doesn't work out, and oh!
Line 119	Alfredo Valenzuela: And the dad has to pay and no.
Line 120	Patricia McDaniel: Let's talk a little about the family in those years, when he was moving so much from one place to another. How was the family? How did they move too? And the school, for example. For them...
Line 121	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, let's see who I had at school. At that time, my children weren't going to school; they were very young when they were in Martha. No, they weren't going to school then. When they were here in your country and they were going to school, an old school I had here then, so when those were the first ones, you see, when my daughters grew up, it was that chubby one who was smaller than the other one, and the other one, Silvia. Well, Silvia, that's the one who is Martita, she's older, she's not pictured with us today because she missed that day, but...
Line 122	Alfredo Valenzuela: She was the one who missed today. So it's like this. They both went to school in. You met at a very old school that was still around here, almost falling down there. So then when we came here and then when, when you guys grew up, then you came to a school that's here on Northside, which is like, what's the name of the school you had?
Line 123	Alfredo Valenzuela: Where did your boys go? No, no, the one that gave me like you like was sent to me by Live View or like? Well, the one here on Northside. The Lakeview Law, no, Lakeview. Sure. Well, that one. So that's where they went. That's when my boys started. Good. And from there on, when they finally came to me.
Line 124	Patricia McDaniel: At the age of six.
Line 125	Alfredo Valenzuela: Mhm, they started at that age, and from then on, well, no, they had no problem with English because they spoke more English than they did; they didn't know how to speak Spanish at all. No, they didn't know anything about speaking Spanish, and almost to this day my children don't even know how to speak Spanish very much. They almost speak to me in English; otherwise, they hardly speak Spanish at all.
Line 126	Patricia McDaniel: Very little. They managed to speak so much English because they were playing with each other.
Line 127	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, no, no, no, not with anyone. It's just that we have to play all the time, well, they played like that, it was with a jacket, and they taught us all the time in China since we were little.
Line 128	Patricia McDaniel: And they got along well with us.
Line 129	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, but speaking in English and everything, and they spoke in English and so on. And they've never forgotten. And how do I tell you, right now, they speak Spanish, and they speak a lot, right? And I have one, this Arturo, this one, he does speak a little Spanish, and they say, "I've run out of Spanish, speak to me in English because you don't know what they're saying anymore," right?
Line 130	Alfredo Valenzuela: Anthony: He does speak a little more Spanish, because he's closer to the Mexicans there at work. And Alex too, but he didn't know any of it. No, he didn't know anything, nothing. And Alex, when he speaks Spanish, he doesn't speak it very clearly. But this Silvia, she also speaks a little French, also Spanish, right? This chubby one speaks a little Spanish, but she speaks more.
Line 131	Alfredo Valenzuela: She speaks it clearly, right? But she almost speaks more English, she speaks more English, and the others speak pure English. They don't speak Spanish outside of the language; they collaborate, they don't speak any Spanish, and...
Line 132	Patricia McDaniel: And the children have always been here.
Line 133	Alfredo Valenzuela: They've been here in Nampa the whole time. I never left happy. Well, they've been happy at school. They have plenty of friends here, eh. Since they were young, they haven't had any problems up until now. The problems they had now are that they're married, the boys, the men, go ahead, but the girls have been good, and let's just say, and everything has been fine, my daughters, and when they went to school, they didn't have any problems, eh.
Line 134	Alfredo Valenzuela: Silvia also worked at the bank where I worked. She was the computer technician. She runs the checks, Norma. She worked with the Red Cross as a secretary and bookkeeper. And about Alex, well, he's worked with me the whole time. We've worked on the ranches. Well, when I was little, I helped clean those ranches. And from there, when that started here, I was 14 or 15 years old, and I think I worked for him.
Line 135	Alfredo Valenzuela: I think when he told him he was 18, they believed him, and from then on, well, right now he's 12, 13, no, he's been working for him for 13 years. But he's already married and he already has the kids, but Anthony already has two, he's going to have two, eh? He's studying, he has three, he already has them, they're grown up now, but the rest, all the kids have families too.
Line 136	Alfredo Valenzuela: When I grow up, I have only grandchildren. Now I have more grandchildren than children.
Line 137	Patricia McDaniel: Residents who say it's always like this. No.
Line 138	Alfredo Valenzuela: But. But this isn't the case.
Line 139	Patricia McDaniel: Me and the family live nearby.
Line 140	Alfredo Valenzuela: In almost all of them my family is here nearby. So yeah, they've never left. Never. They don't know much outside of Idaho. Once I get them, I'll take them so they're there before me. Well, my mom was sick in Houston. I went to see her. She's fine now. Well, she's about to die, right?
Line 141	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I took them so they could be there. I took the adults and I told them, "Look, kids, you're from here." And he said, "No, we don't like it." He said, "It's too big," he said. "And it's very ugly." He said, "Look, I mean, bring us the hospital, not through the windows." And my kid was looking outside, and he said, "Look, yesterday he told me, 'Look, the man, the men who are like this,' he said, 'They bring a can from here,' and that movie theater, and they bring a bottle of White wine from here, and they're like this, and you can just see what they're doing.'"
Line 142	Alfredo Valenzuela: He said, "That's what they do here in the big town." Jose looks very grim. "Son, let's go to Idaho." "Well, no, but they grew up here, and those who are from here, right?"
Line 143	Patricia McDaniel: They're more. They're more comfortable here in Irujo, in the smaller towns, than in Texas. Yeah.
Line 144	Alfredo Valenzuela: And it wasn't because of them here. They like it here and they've been fine. Happy, huh? When I tell them we're going to take a trip over there, well, yeah, they're going to see and see, but it's not because they like it. No, no, they don't want to stay there, it's because I've told them about things like when I was a kid, how things are over there and everything, huh?
Line 145	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I was just an orphan, right? My father lived the whole time, right? But he left us very young, and all that.
Line 146	Alfredo Valenzuela: To this day. I was an orphan and I struggled a lot to grow up.
Line 147	Patricia McDaniel: In Texas.
Line 148	Alfredo Valenzuela: In Texas.
Line 149	Patricia McDaniel: And when and how did you come from Texas to here? You came to. To work as an adult. No, not as an adult. No, not as a child.
Line 150	Alfredo Valenzuela: No. Yeah, yeah, it's coming, yeah, yeah, man, it's coming. I was 32, I think, when I came here, right? Well, I came to see things too, right? And how they paid more than in Texas. But when I finally got here from here to work on the ranch, they said they paid 25 dollars, so when we arrived here, when we arrived here in Texas they were also paying the same, so they couldn't back us down, listen, because...
Line 151	Alfredo Valenzuela: But then we said, well, we're here now, so we're going to work here and there, and well, no, no, no, I had no way to go back, and since I don't have anyone in Texas, I don't have any brothers, I don't have any anymore. My brother died, and uh, well, I'm not one of those men who loves their family very much, right?
Line 152	Alfredo Valenzuela: When they say, well, I have my mom, I'm going to go there, my whole family is there, I'm going to die close to... No, I'm not that kind of person. Nah. And I said, here are my children. I tell my children, well, if you want to leave, go and I'm going to stay here, because I bought here and I'm going to stay here, and... But if I have my mom, I have an uncle, an uncle, an aunt, I'm going to go better, I look at them and look at them.
Line 153	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, and yes, such weather. Nice, right? But if the weather isn't nice, I won't go because it's dangerous, and I say no, I wouldn't have killed myself, I would have done something. No, I'd rather stay here. Should I write them a letter or give them a call, right? But no, no, no, no, no, no. I have business going out in this weather, no less.
Line 154	Patricia McDaniel: Let's talk a little about the time when the Mormons came to help you. And did you have to become a Mormon, change, or join the church?
Line 155	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, yes, I went to church. Yes, I was going to church with them. I became a man like them. And. I respected the church. I also wanted to become a man that I wanted too. To become a man that I didn't want to be around anymore, going around drinking and doing things like that or anything. And then...
Line 156	Alfredo Valenzuela: When just for a while, well just for that while just like that. Well homework when I went to Bruno. Oh dad, I also went to church over there in Green View, there, there I saw a Mormon church, so I went there, but instead of working so hard, they worked me so hard that I no longer had time to go because they made me work doing said among the pure stones, I had to dig and well I came out really tired and everything until...
Line 157	Alfredo Valenzuela: That man cursed me a lot and all that stuff and eh. And in that time I lost my mind and and And then, well, why did I start fighting with him, right? But there were other Basques there. Then they told me, "No, son, it's not worth it, that they're not going to hit that man." He said, "Why?"
Line 158	Alfredo Valenzuela: He said, "Well, you have a family." I just had to hold it in and go home. And then, from the moment I found out, I couldn't hold my temper, so I left. On the other side, there's a bar they give you, called Blixen. So I went to Blixen and there I had this one.
Line 159	Alfredo Valenzuela: And that's where I lost everything. I didn't become a Mormon anymore. Mhm. So this. But there was a time later, when I came from there. Then yes, my life was different. Then. When I had been around here for a while, this and that, I got sick and was about to die. I think, because when I was already very sick, I was living in this city, about 19 years ago and...
Line 160	Alfredo Valenzuela: So this one. He tells me I went to see the doctor and he tells me you know Valenzuela says you have six months to live, no
Line 161	Patricia McDaniel: When 19.
Line 162	Alfredo Valenzuela: Years. Yes, yes. Then I said, "And now?" And if he doesn't tell me, he says six months to live. When I came around back, he was all scared. No. And then this. Well, it wasn't anything to say anymore. He was my wife. And then this was when. Afterwards, we moved here, huh? And then this, well, we put everything here, all right and everything.
Line 163	Alfredo Valenzuela: And here we are. And I didn't want to tell my wife, I didn't want to tell her until I told her. So when I was young, she used to say, "What did the doctor say?" No, nothing. "So, are you feeling bad or sad?" No? And don't think I'm thinking about anything, and always until... So, a sofa with this is over there like this.
Line 164	Alfredo Valenzuela: And this little room. This was a little room here on that line, like this. And this was a closet over there, on that line to find a closet. So.
Line 165	Alfredo Valenzuela: He tells me, well, I couldn't hold it in and I couldn't hold it in until I told my wife someone you know that...
Line 166	Alfredo Valenzuela: I'll tell you what the doctor told me. He told me I was going to die in six months, and ma'am, well, she got very sad. At the time, she worked with Corp Nation. Here, in the character over there, I told her the papers that called him Colonel Germán. Then, this one. She got very sad. She said, "Why didn't I tell you? I fell ill."
Line 167	Alfredo Valenzuela: I told him that's the root cause. And they say I have diabetes, and I don't know what that was.
Line 168	Alfredo Valenzuela: So he says, "How do you see this?" He said, "Of course." The doctor didn't say that. "Did he tell you that?" He said.
Line 169	Alfredo Valenzuela: I told him, "I'm not going to give him a hard time, you know." And I told him, "I'm going to church." I told him where I used to go before. "I'm going to give my all to God, and God's going to help me. I'm not going to drink, smoke, or go to nightclubs."
Line 170	Alfredo Valenzuela: Everything. I told her to talk to a nightclub, not to watch any of that. Okay? Life is going to be different. So. She was very Catholic. My wife was very Catholic. Then she said, "Well, she said, do what you want. Do the best you want." So I bought a pair of going-out pants and a jacket that I still have. That jacket is almost brand new.
Line 171	Alfredo Valenzuela: That's why he didn't throw it away. It's new, it's brand new. It was the first jacket I ever bought. Peace and joy, eh. And I went and stayed. And. And no, well, now I started praying there and give me like to because now I'm going to move it. Hence, anything you want with me. I don't know how to pray, I'm just me, if you have something for me, give it to me. I'm not good, I'm a sinner.
Line 172	Alfredo Valenzuela: Then. I started to cry. Tears came out. Cold, cold ones. And then, well, he had a woman and... They put me like this and prayed for me. And then, really warm tears came to my eyes. And then, well, they prayed for me. And then, one Monday, I went back to spend a physical day.
Line 173	Alfredo Valenzuela: Look, they ran and ran and ran across the country. They ran so the doctors and nurses and everything could be there.
Line 174	Alfredo Valenzuela: And. Until I told them no. Then he says, "They don't say anything." Valenzuela said the time you had that here. Well, you were dying. My wife can't take anything from you.
Line 175	Alfredo Valenzuela: So I started thinking and said, "Well, I don't know why I'm leaving, but now I can't go out anymore, I'm like I was before or anything. And now, you know. Now, I'm a Christian, you know. Now I don't do the things we used to do before, except right now I'm here. Right now, mhm, and not anymore, but like I said, but anyway, he's gone through trials like many have gone through, right?
Line 176	Alfredo Valenzuela: With my family, with my children, instead of coming, and well, not much, right? But now they've married women because they all went to church, but there were women who didn't go to church, and some others, but they married women who didn't go to church. Now they've taken my children out of church to go to nightclubs, you know?
Line 177	Alfredo Valenzuela: And now they take this and that. Pray for God to make a whole family. There are these. Consequences? Do you understand? I have to suffer them and all that for God to answer my prayers. Do you understand what He can do, because also when I gave myself to the Lord that time, I later told my wife, my husband wanted me divorced, yes, and then I went back, I told him pray and I said Lord, Lord, I told him now, now that I have given myself and now my husband wants to leave me and that's all I have here.
Line 178	Alfredo Valenzuela: Now it's the daughter's turn and for her to also join the Church, I won't tell him that from now on I'm going to make films, if he lets me, because one day I wanted to go to the Night Club.
Line 179	Alfredo Valenzuela: I told him, "But we'll do one thing. I said, I'll take you to the club and you go with me." He, he, he. "Friday night you go with me to the church for a while and we'll go to the nightclub." At nine, he said, "Okay, that's what I say, so we left. Well, I'm going to church first, and then I can't go out. No, no. He didn't want to go to the nightclub anymore, and he didn't go out, and then the church liked it, and now he's part of the church, and no, not me, I was just sitting there.
Line 180	Alfredo Valenzuela: And don't think I gave him any more time, no matter how hard I tried. It's just a matter of time. And this.
Line 181	Patricia McDaniel: And also.
Line 182	Alfredo Valenzuela: And so on. You see now.
Line 183	Alfredo Valenzuela: God has given me the Ministry of Health, and I go to many places. Sometimes, when God speaks to me and wants me to minister, like in San Antonio, California, wherever, wherever He wants, wherever there are sick people, I go, and I like it so I can pray for the sick.
Line 184	Patricia McDaniel: From here you travel to all those other games.
Line 185	Alfredo Valenzuela: That's my ministry, you know. But from a man who was worthless. Now I'm a man of God, who now I'm a man who. That God uses even though nothing is noticed here. But hey, God has taken care of me. God has blessed us very well here.
Line 186	Patricia McDaniel: Interesting. And where are you and your children today? Are they also in the church, or are they still with you?
Line 187	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, they go. They go, right? They still go with the belief in that truth, but the belief in us, because they know very well that the ministry is ours and everything, and when I created them, eh? They've always been created there, right? But since they married Catholic women and Catholic women can't, they can't make us go to the Catholic Church and they say no, we don't go there because, well, you go there and say and anyway you go and talk about your neighbor, you say and we don't, we don't talk.
Line 188	Alfredo Valenzuela: Our neighbor says, "We tell them because we're brothers of the Church, right?" We have a problem, we have a problem because of our attitude and so on. And no, well, no, women don't, we can't make them understand.
Line 189	Patricia McDaniel: No.
Line 190	Alfredo Valenzuela: Give a part.
Line 191	Patricia McDaniel: Until.
Line 192	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yeah, true.
Line 193	Patricia McDaniel: Or no, what I'm going to do is.
Line 194	Alfredo Valenzuela: This one with us is near the one near Vicuña, Coahuila. Not very close, but almost. Where we are, uh, are those poor towns, their towns are very small. There were like four stores or very few, it was a very small town there, a kind of train with the two cafes, those three cafes that were there, two American and one Mexican and a few bars that the Mexicans had there and it was like it was, it was happy with the September 16th that the Mexicans held there during the time of the Mexicans, that September 16th and May 5th and everything, there were always rats and like everything
Line 195	Alfredo Valenzuela: The weather there, because it's close to Mexico, right? That's why quite a few Mexicans grew up there. But then, when I remember when my mother explained, talking there, that I also come from poor people, that my mother also washed clothes, like, look, she said, look, those are the poor people who look after something, right?
Line 196	Alfredo Valenzuela: And here in the United States, I still say, my mother also washed clothes, she washed 5, 6, 7 baths of clothes for the Americans for 50 cents a bath, a really big bath of clean clothes. And to support us. And. And then she comes and, poor thing, they tell her. Well, I didn't know. I tell her. But I was little. And my little sister Alejandra and I were playing at her, I saw her wash clothes and from there they paid her separately for ironing and, poor thing, she had to iron all those clothes and they paid her separately and from there we lived in a house, it didn't have electricity, it only had a water wheel outside and my mom had
Line 197	Alfredo Valenzuela: I had to have windows, it didn't have windows, they were made of boards, the windows and and in order to hear some with 1,1 stick. So for them to open, because at night they had to be closed, because not waiting for me and my mom and my little sister to live and. And I was always well alone really. No, there weren't folders like the ones we have now, There weren't any plastic sheets like that to protect anything.
Line 198	Alfredo Valenzuela: There was a floor and... And when the woman swept, she didn't need to take the trash out, right? She took it through the cracks, right? And then it went downstairs. And that's how it was. And then... Ah, that's how I remember it. And then we rented another one, another little ranch there, it was sadder because it was more solid there. That's when an aunt of mine, I think, was with us, and we took care of her until she died, and from then on, she already had insurance and she left it to me when I was about eight years old.
Line 199	Alfredo Valenzuela: So, uh, I don't know how much money, but it was quite a bit of money, and with that money I bought. We bought a property in town and a house, and we bought him another house, and so on. But later on, we had money, we had money, but later on, I didn't, because I had money. But yes, yes, he did like to dress. No, no, well, well, well, but in khaki, in a marketing style, you say, right?
Line 200	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes. Fine and a shirt too. And slippers, as they call them, "Fina." Very pretty, but... That's how my mom wanted to bring me, but this didn't make her any less... The poor kids, the ones who went barefoot or anything. If they went barefoot and I wanted to, in case it was the case, because I couldn't stand the stones, because my foot was very, very, very tender underneath my foot.
Line 201	Alfredo Valenzuela: I, I, I. I didn't want to put on my, my, my shoes, I already had calluses, so thick with flour, no longer, because they went through the thorns, thorns, or if that thorn didn't hurt them and I didn't, I would scream and... And I always joined them. I remember when they counted the rotten bananas, grapes, rotten, rotten oranges, rotten apples and all that on the back of their feet.
Line 202	Alfredo Valenzuela: I used to hang out with them and eat with them, right? And I always had money in the bank. But I didn't, because I had money. Me. I wasn't going to hang out with them. I wasn't any bigger than them. Or was I? Me. I wanted to be just like them. And that's how I was. And then, when I grew a little older, I worked with a slaughterer, slaughtering cows, and he paid me a peso for each cow.
Line 203	Alfredo Valenzuela: I helped him, and he gave me the tripe, the heads, the guts—quite a lot of meat, and I couldn't eat all that on my own. And the rich people gave it to him instead of—as I told them in the project—giving me the head, giving me the menu and everything. I gave them the menu instead of killing us. Five cows were five tripe, five heads, and all that.
Line 204	Alfredo Valenzuela: And every single person who looked at me like that didn't give it to them, didn't give them everything, because everyone wanted to and greeted each other. And so I gave them the meat and all that. And the people from my entire town, they all loved me very much. They called me Alfredito, el Este, like they called me, eh, hallelujah! They called me Alfredito, el Aleluya!
Line 205	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then. I remember when they were killing deer, so it wasn't deer season, and we were giving meat at night to people's homes, to the poor. And they didn't say anything, and we gave them meat, and that's how the floodwaters were, and so on, so on, nobody. That's what I was doing the whole time, trying to help everyone I could, right?
Line 206	Alfredo Valenzuela: And maybe even now I'm helping people. I like helping.
Line 207	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 208	Alfredo Valenzuela: But no, not with my wife, this is very different because she's not from my town, she's from you and me. And I'm not from here. You, me, I'm not. I was born. Yes, and she's from. And I'm from Texas. And here I'm more from where she is. Poor people are from where rich people are here.
Line 209	Alfredo Valenzuela: You, the people you want to have here, we have the people. Well, there are many people there who are the same, really, but the way I grew up, I am, I like to help, and my mother was like that too. My mother was serious, but I was the one who helped her help people.
Line 210	Patricia McDaniel: But when you were older, you started deciding to come here to Idaho. Stop. And why did you come? To work? To look for work.
Line 211	Alfredo Valenzuela: If we come here, we come to look for work.
Line 212	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, because there was one.
Line 213	Alfredo Valenzuela: No? Well, no, there wasn't any work. I wanted to earn a little more, because in Texas, they paid me, on the ranch, they paid me 40 cents an hour.
Line 214	Patricia McDaniel: Here one.
Line 215	Alfredo Valenzuela: One, one dollar.
Line 216	Patricia McDaniel: One dollar.
Line 217	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, we knew they paid a dollar here, and that's why. That's why we came here. And then we said, well, we know, that's why we said, here we're going to earn more, and here they give us a good time, and here we had it, that's why we came here. But when we got here, we got good work on the ranches, but since instead we have to work in the beets, and I couldn't work very well because I only worked, I didn't have any help here. Other than that, my brother-in-law already had like five helpers, the helper, boys who were my nephews, but I couldn't make progress on all the work alone, and I did struggle quite a bit to get back on my feet.
Line 218	Alfredo Valenzuela: I couldn't get up unless I needed a construction job or something that paid me weekly or something like that so I could get up, because a job like this, Latina. I couldn't get up, no, no, it couldn't be like that. And there it was, there was now that I learned to be an explorer and then everything was fine, because working with my wife and with all a kiss, describe us to the apical cherry Cherry.
Line 219	Alfredo Valenzuela: So, we were already doing 125, 150 a day picking cherries. In seven hours. Working in this garden in Seven.
Line 220	Patricia McDaniel: House for How many people.
Line 221	Alfredo Valenzuela: Just come in, come in, come in. Just me and my wife, and... And four of my little boys. Why were they so little, huh? They were pretty good catches.
Line 222	Patricia McDaniel: And they helped.
Line 223	Alfredo Valenzuela: They helped me right from the start, in the first few days. No, no, there wasn't any money because they ate more cherries than I did. No, I never ate them yesterday, I don't like them, but. And so on. But at home, at the beetroot. They weren't very good at that either, they didn't like beets very much. But at the Cherry they did help me quite a bit.
Line 224	Patricia McDaniel: Yeah.
Line 225	Alfredo Valenzuela: But when we came here, no, I struggled quite a bit. That's why.
Line 226	Alfredo Valenzuela: Whereas sometimes I didn't have a car from here, and my car was running. How many kids are there from here? About two and a half miles through the cold, through the snow, and no one would give me a ride to the edge. In a trailer to the point of the fence. To where the Taxcos are. I walk there from here, from this house, to there.
Line 227	Alfredo Valenzuela: The Clarks, in homonyms. That's how I was going backwards. I struggled enough until I didn't have a car, I bought one, and then I didn't have one anymore, and that's how we were until we finally got back on our feet.
Line 228	Patricia McDaniel: And before I also talked about getting a diploma, no.
Line 229	Alfredo Valenzuela: In a school.
Line 230	Patricia McDaniel: Yes, but no, no, no, he stayed outside for quite a while to finish. He went out.
Line 231	Alfredo Valenzuela: So before.
Line 232	Patricia McDaniel: Finish.
Line 233	Alfredo Valenzuela: I was missing two brothers to finish.
Line 234	Patricia McDaniel: And the degree? The diploma was going to be for baking.
Line 235	Alfredo Valenzuela: This one, to drive the tractors, to, like, let's see how to go to the state to clear roads and all that, those big €30 doesn't stop there. Like to pull the tractors from the ranches, not to drive them, to clear roads and all that. But today they pay like good, right now they pay like $22, $24, $25 an hour. And at first it was like it didn't matter, as long as it was good, but I never thought about it.
Line 236	Patricia McDaniel: No, and now, now after that, that something, this thing of coming out of something so important does not have its consequences.
Line 237	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then this one. But since I really liked the ranch, I thought it was better, because since you don't pay rent, they give you electricity and everything. No, I wasn't going to buy food, and that's why it was easy for me, but afterward, they never thought ahead, and that's what I think.
Line 238	Alfredo Valenzuela: One should think about what lies ahead. That's why.
Line 239	Patricia McDaniel: And your children? Do you understand that?
Line 240	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, they're doing it right now, a lot of them. Well, how are they close to me? No, no, no, they just think about living. Don't they think this and that, right? But right now, he's given them a good schooling. I'll tell you, one of them, well, super, having a manager here at El Charro, when it opened, and the good thing is, they listened to him because of the girls, because they were using the telephone. The first thing they told him was, no, if it was an important telephone service, yes, but not for the girls, and that's what happened to him, and they told him he didn't need it.
Line 241	Alfredo Valenzuela: And the other one is that Turi. That one? Yeah, he's a hard worker. My son. I struggled a bit when I was little. No, he didn't even want to take out the trash, or the band, or clean the yard, or anything. He didn't want to do anything. That boy, nothing, no struggle at all now, and he's the hardest-working boy of all, huh?
Line 242	Alfredo Valenzuela: And now he's working and getting mad because the others aren't going. Instead, one of them is miserable. The other one goes and scolds them, and he's the one in the middle. And Alex, the dark-haired one, is the one on this side; he's the oldest. He's 28, and right now he's already 28, he said. He is now. I know he's already gotten back together with his wife. He has a big boy, right?
Line 243	Alfredo Valenzuela: And now she's working to fix it up, she's got everything, almost the whole year of work to start, not a day, eh, My daughter Viola is walking, She was born in 2016 because it was a day I needed her. I went to the hospital there in Weiser, they didn't want to take my wife because I didn't have any money. And my wife was already gone. She went to nothing, almost, she was already recovering and they didn't want to take her.
Line 244	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I had to tell a friend there, take me to the hospital. Part of it. I mean, this is serious, and it's serious. And no more. I got to the steps and there they grabbed her in the chair, and when I was assigning papers, by the time I got out I would have been raped. It was my normal good. What a not-so-fat boy, that chubby girl up there.
Line 245	Patricia McDaniel: After.
Line 246	Alfredo Valenzuela: And she's really short. All of this weighs almost 300 liters. She's really big. There's me. And he's really, really fat with. And she's the machi in one of the smallest ones and Barbie is the smallest one, the one in the corner, which is the smallest. Anthony is older than the one sitting next to me.
Line 247	Alfredo Valenzuela: Already.
Line 248	Patricia McDaniel: And they are, they are. Oh, come on. As for their education, were they successful in school?
Line 249	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, I don't have the portraits there. But Alex, the good guy, the owners are there. I think I'll see if I can get them for those little trophies there, they're from wrestling, those that are there, some are from restyling, others are from baseball, from The Trophy, some are from Tour and the old ones, from the one that the one that yes brought, and some are mine, others are from Alex, the other one and Anthony, but almost all of us are pure baseball choirs.
Line 250	Patricia McDaniel: And they had a good time at school.
Line 251	Alfredo Valenzuela: Because that's how you see it here. But it's the Tour, and he had the opportunity to play on the little tables they made for volleyball, which was what it was, and well, he and Anthony had a lot of talent. He was good too, but then, like I said, they got married very young. I don't know how many got married. We hadn't even started working on the first day and they got married.
Line 252	Alfredo Valenzuela: That is, the brothers no longer write to me.
Line 253	Patricia McDaniel: But they all finished school.
Line 254	Alfredo Valenzuela: No, the schools didn't end, no, Alex reached 11, the other reached 10 and Anthony reached like 9 or 10 Mhm. Mhm.
Line 255	Patricia McDaniel: And why didn't they finish?
Line 256	Alfredo Valenzuela: Because they got married very young. They were already married as boys. And from there, Anthony had the chance to go. He'd be married, he could go, but his wife was going and he wasn't, and he didn't want to go. Si's husband finished school before the youngest, and he would have gone too.
Line 257	Patricia McDaniel: Finished and the women are finished.
Line 258	Alfredo Valenzuela: They grabbed this one, grabbed it, as they say, and here Silvia and Norma and the others don't. That one doesn't have any schooling, the chubby one, and neither does the other one. You know? The other one reached the level of ten, and she got married. The other one also reached the level of ten, and she also got married.
Line 259	Alfredo Valenzuela: Mhm. No, it wasn't almost that I was short, I almost didn't want to go to school. No, she told me, "I didn't see you. I'm going to help you work." She saw me. She started working like a girl. Good.
Line 260	Patricia McDaniel: And you agree with that No.
Line 261	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I told them to give them a career in school. I never took them out of school. But she told me, "No." And she says. She says, "I want to help you." She says, "Because you're already old," she says. And we want to help. But no, she just got a good job and bought one, she bought one, she came with some rulers, and they asked me, and that's it, and then someone came along, married her, and after that, I don't even know what I voted for.
Line 262	Alfredo Valenzuela: They took away my help for her.
Line 263	Patricia McDaniel: Well, very well, Mr. Valenzuela, but, eh, I think you have more.
Line 264	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I have more, but right now as I tell you I have to go and get my wife, he has the four because he already finished the four.
Line 265	Patricia McDaniel: Okay, let's start. Today we're going to talk a little about the customs you have here in this family and how you came to have those customs. And I want to ask, for example, what customs you have. Do you have them for your family? How did you come to have them for your parents or something?
Line 266	Alfredo Valenzuela: Was it the customs that this one had? Well, I was raised alone, right? And without anyone giving me any opportunity, uh, well, it's been alone the whole time and... And when I finally had a family, let's say when I had the first families, well, I did everything possible to raise them well, give them a good school and give them the opportunity, in other words, give them the best that I could do and so that they could grow up and be good, good little boys who behaved well with other families, right?
Line 267	Alfredo Valenzuela: They earned respect from someone else. In other words, I taught them not to steal, and I taught them not to do that. They were bad things, like with someone else, and so on. So what if they were good at their jobs and all that, because that's how I was, who has always been a good worker and I have never lost my job for any reason, except being sick or something. But thank God I have never been sick because of an illness, that I have left my job or for other reasons, because many men have lost their jobs because of those things, right?
Line 268	Alfredo Valenzuela: But thank God I'm not like that, right? I'm a hardworking man, and I have my family the way I wanted them all, and I taught them all to work, and... And I gave them a good, good school, so they took it, and... And I gave them a good opportunity, and I also told them to go to church, and...
Line 269	Alfredo Valenzuela: And now that they're married, they know what to do. And now they have a family. God. Now let's let them learn how to be raised with a family. I'm going to give the example I gave to the family that comes later, and so we have what we all have, my wife and I. Have we done everything possible to give them the best, teach them the best, and stay away from evil and tell them what they do. One more thing, well, stop saying that they're doing wrong or doing something they shouldn't, they don't pay the price, right?
Line 270	Alfredo Valenzuela: And that's what we do, but that's what we have to be. And I don't know, but I never had brothers, I never had a sister. But she died a long time ago, but I was mostly alone, and I never knew affection from brothers or anyone, right? But now I have many sons and daughters and...
Line 271	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I knew how to love them, and to love my daughters, and to give them every opportunity to have what I was able to have for them, right? I never had much wealth for them, but thank God I had a house for them so they didn't have to run around all the time, right?
Line 272	Patricia McDaniel: And so, and for you, it was important to have that. You told me that you had a house and all that. That's very important for the family. And I want to. I want to ask if it's a good thing for you and the family. It's very important to have a fixed home. Oh, we go there very often, right? And always in the same house and no, not moving from one place to another.
Line 273	Patricia McDaniel: To another.
Line 274	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, well, it's true that when I came here I struggled a bit, right? When I struggled to get by, why not? At that time I was drinking and I was a bit of a loose cannon. But I had everything for my wife, right? I had clothes for my children, I had food for them, and... But whatever was left, well, I took, right? But I didn't have, uh, I paid rent, I paid the water bills, the electricity bills, and everything, but sometimes when the rent came, well, I would pay the rent and everything, but what I wasn't very happy about was that it wasn't my place, right?
Line 275	Alfredo Valenzuela: But then, with the time I had, gaining more experience, more work, more things like that. So, this man from this house where I'm living right now gave me the opportunity. Well, he was the one who rented it to me first. I was renting this house here, and so, he was a good person. He said something to me about having so much family with me, so many sons and daughters, right?
Line 276	Alfredo Valenzuela: He was given the esteem, I think of me or something. And then he said to me, "Look, I want to sell you this house, huh? Do you like it? And even if it's too small, right? For my family." But I said, "Yes." "I'll sell it to you," I said. "I answered, 'So how badly do you want to give a child?'" "Well, 1500." And I said, "Well, I don't have any."
Line 277	Alfredo Valenzuela: And that's how it was. And then the other thing. The next month he came back, he told me the same thing again, he came like three times like that and he said the same thing to me. Until one day he got tired and said, "Do you like the house?" I said, "Yes, yes, it's good." And all that went to the bank. He signed some papers, brought them to me, and the papers came out.
Line 278	Alfredo Valenzuela: He said the house is yours, he said just give 100, 101, one a month until you have 1500. From there you pay 60 dollars a month. I was just happy because I knew this house was mine. The responsible thing to do was to own the house and pay my bills, and that's what I liked more and more.
Line 279	Alfredo Valenzuela: I had more joy, more joy, more strength to work, to have more children, and for everything. And although it wasn't a very remote house, it was still very much in the air. But to start with, this was what lifted me up a little more.
Line 280	Patricia McDaniel: And you think that your children also have the same feeling.
Line 281	Alfredo Valenzuela: Pride.
Line 282	Patricia McDaniel: From from from you.
Line 283	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, this is more difficult right now, right? I'm so young, right? But yes, I do see that they can have the same qualities I have, right? I know that the oldest one, I've already more or less looked after, that he's already settled, he's with his wife, his kids, he works seven days a week, he works up to 14 hours a day, and he's doing well.
Line 284	Alfredo Valenzuela: And I look at how I was working with that company, and now I look at how he's doing the same thing, right? And he has the same body I had. When I was younger, right? And now the other thing, well, he got divorced. But I know that one day he might find a wife and be a good worker too, but the thing is, he doesn't have a husband right now, but what about the next one?
Line 285	Alfredo Valenzuela: The littlest one? Well, he doesn't have a job, he can. Of course, he has a very nice house—it's not his own, but he's paying rent—but he also has a very good husband. They live well, too, but you know that one day he might be good too, because he has very good thoughts. Whether he does it is another matter, I know, but we always need to look further ahead.
Line 286	Alfredo Valenzuela: Those who are young now think one thing and later on they think another. And last night I woke up in two more days. He was telling me about the war that's going to start descending and he says and he says, I think, I'm going to take, I'm going to go, they're going to talk to me about the war, he says, because I'm very young and well, if they talk to you, well, good luck, I say, but I hope it doesn't happen because I never went and I hope you don't go, he says.
Line 287	Alfredo Valenzuela: But anyway, let's see what happens to us.
Line 288	Patricia McDaniel: Mhm. So you're very worried about those two. Yes, yes, exactly. And the daughters? The women in the family?
Line 289	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, my daughters. As I told you, Silvia. Well, she's always been... Good, huh? And what can I say about my daughters? Sometimes she visits me, sometimes she doesn't, and uh, she's also grown up in the religion where I go, and even more so. Before her, she liked dancing and all that, but she's gotten better now, she also got married, and now she's got a very good man. Now he's a minister.
Line 290	Alfredo Valenzuela: She can also be a minister, and then she already has her share, but let's say she has it at home, right? But she doesn't pay much rent either. There where she is. And what about teacher Norma? Well, she's the one. The only one who does pay rent and everything, works, but she gets welfare and has lots of kids. Has she had bad luck with her husband, huh?
Line 291	Alfredo Valenzuela: Anyway, welfare pays her rent, he helps her with the kids, they give her food stamps and so on, fine, but eh, there are times when she sees that I need something.
Line 292	Alfredo Valenzuela: I prefer Nike because these friends I have here too, they bring me too, right? And they bring me all of that, and they don't go, they give me dirty looks. And then all the people come, right? Because they've never, ever seen me in a bad light. And this one and this chubby one, well, she lives in Cornwall. She's the one I told her she's the one with the three, the one who's really chubby, but she's fine now, right?
Line 293	Patricia McDaniel: And you and your family, huh? Keep up the Hispanic customs and traditions, like the quinceañera.
Line 294	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, what it does is that we celebrate, well, when I had girls, right? Yeah.
Line 295	Patricia McDaniel: And I'm talking about a quinceañera only as an example.
Line 296	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yeah. Well, when we were in this church, we still have portraits. Where are my daughters when they completed their quinceañeras? Huh?
Line 297	Alfredo Valenzuela: What were you teaching her there the other day? And I said, "Well, because my mommy is dressed as a bride." Does the type of bride know that generally the Church when they turn 15, then and almost all of them are dressed like that because that's how they dress very pretty, with this they complete the 15 years, but many celebrate like in dances and all that, but we don't, we know Pentecost is this, we go to church and we do it in the Church and we give it in the church and and and this and it's very different, we give it, eh, and we have a party, well we do it, eh?
Line 298	Alfredo Valenzuela: Christian Yes, like that.
Line 299	Patricia McDaniel: So in church or at home.
Line 300	Alfredo Valenzuela: We don't do it in the church. We have a kind of big kitchen. Mhm. And all that. And we do it there, we make a couple of tables, like cake, sodas, hot chocolate, coffee. Not bad. No, no, there's no alcohol, drinks, or anything like that. That's why and with that we celebrate the quinceañera and. And um, my children.
Line 301	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, they, men, don't celebrate any of that. But, uh, like I said, we still have the... They know we celebrate like this all the time.
Line 302	Patricia McDaniel: Yes. And when the whole family gets together for a reunion.
Line 303	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, when we look at them, that's when we go. Well, we're here almost all the time when we have a meal with men. Um. We want to leave. We have a good meal here. A barbecue in the back. And from there I talk to all my children, to my children and here we do it and sometimes we want to go there to the lagoon and we all go there to the lagoon and under the trees and there we all are.
Line 304	Patricia McDaniel: We eat and the food they eat is Hispanic or Mexican food or.
Line 305	Alfredo Valenzuela: One part Mexican and the other part Mexican, and so we eat nothing but stacks. Some bring hot dogs, and sometimes others make tacos and enchiladas and so on. They bring all of that and heat it up there with all the ingredients, right? And we eat almost everything.
Line 306	Patricia McDaniel: So a part of in our part of.
Line 307	Alfredo Valenzuela: From Spain.
Line 308	Patricia McDaniel: If you're Mexican, you can remember a few, for example. We're going to look back on occasions here in Idaho that were now, or are going back, or earlier, or a long time ago, some occasions that were Hispanic of origin here in Europe. So you understand what I mean? The reality is, let's see if I can explain it better, see if it wasn't, if there is.
Line 309	Patricia McDaniel: If you can remember, there are special occasions like parties or whatever that were special, especially for those of Hispanic or Mexican descent.
Line 310	Alfredo Valenzuela: Parties.
Line 311	Patricia McDaniel: Parties.
Line 312	Alfredo Valenzuela: Oh well.
Line 313	Patricia McDaniel: Here in Idaho but with people from this eh, with Hispanic people.
Line 314	Alfredo Valenzuela: Oh well, there are some here, right? But we, as I say, are like, I haven't been involved in that for many years, right? But they do, they do have parties on September 16th, which is the case; they celebrate on the 14th, 15th, and 16th. May 5th is what Mexicans are all about, right?
Line 315	Alfredo Valenzuela: And they celebrate it there in the parks. If I go, I'll buy tamales or enchiladas or something like that. Menudo? They really call it Menudo? Well, dude, I'll buy it, it gives me that much. But no, I'm not going to stay, right? I bring it and eat it here at home, or I don't take it to the park, I take it to the lagoon to see it like we do over there, and even though we buy it over there, we don't eat it over there because we can't be in two places.
Line 316	Patricia McDaniel: That's right. You, uh, can celebrate those special days, but together as a family instead of as a Hispanic community. Yes, it's celebrated.
Line 317	Alfredo Valenzuela: But we don't celebrate that day. We just go and eat, but we eat, but we don't celebrate. That day we go fishing. Yes, we go fishing, yes, my sons go fishing. Or I go alone or... Or my daughters go fishing with me sometimes. We go fishing and... And so on. That's how it was. We separated ourselves; my wife doesn't like fishing.
Line 318	Alfredo Valenzuela: Only if he likes to cook out there in the country. And before he didn't like it because he was ashamed to say that it was the people who look at me around here. I come from Pueblo Grande and he says and let's see if they're going to believe that I'm Indian, I say or I tell him well that he has, I say here something very expressive that once I told him that I made him a lighting and from there I roasted some chickens and some very tasty chickens came out, there look, some very tasty things always come out in this matter for you to look at and there well he loved it and now he likes to go there a lot, but he just doesn't like fishing or
Line 319	Alfredo Valenzuela: None of that. Walking. But he does like walking by the water's edge and all that. Yeah, but he doesn't like fishing.
Line 320	Patricia McDaniel: Oh, regarding the previous time talking about the family, who is in this family? And now, and earlier and earlier too, who had more power in doing things, in making decisions, in making decisions, for example.
Line 321	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I'm the one who makes most of the decisions here, because I'm the one who, well, has more experience, right? And I'm older than my wife, and I never had much schooling, or she's never had schooling, and they still think I have a lot of schooling because of my experience, both in English and Spanish.
Line 322	Alfredo Valenzuela: I speak it in English and I speak it in Spanish. And they think that because of my experience, they think I've had a lot of schooling. And no, I don't. But since I've been around so many places and this guy has worked in so many different kinds of jobs, uh, both in the fields and in all kinds of jobs, everything, so many people think I have a lot of experience, but I don't have any schooling. I don't have any of that.
Line 323	Alfredo Valenzuela: And the presentation is already my experience. That's why, at my school, uh, we talk about one thing and I talk to her and then I tell her, look this way and that way, and she tells me, well, look how we do it this way. And there we are, one way and another. So, so she doesn't get angry, then I tell her, okay, let's do what you do, but sometimes I give her the move so she gets points too.
Line 324	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, but I know it's wrong, but.
Line 325	Patricia McDaniel: You think that's what it really is? Education. There's formal education, not in school, but there's also a life education that brings life. Please.
Line 326	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes. Well, that's the one I'm carrying. It's what I've been through. I've been working almost all the time, and because of everything I've been through and what's been going on, it's been what's kept me alive and kept me going, and what's made me go through all the trials, right? Of work and feelings, of never having a father.
Line 327	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I had a mother, but she was poor and never good, and even if she had money, I never went around asking her to get me out of jail or for other things. I never went to her, but. It's just that she couldn't. No, I worked, I supported her and all that, and on the contrary, I had two little girls back in the day, but they didn't give them to me. They were granddaughters who were nephews, grandchildren, not my nieces and nephews.
Line 328	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then he gave them to me, my sister gave them to my mom, and I gave them to the children until I could put them in school, and they called me "Dad" because they didn't know any other dad, not for me. And then they gave them to me when they were little too. But these are the ones who write to me, they still call me "Sender."
Line 329	Alfredo Valenzuela: But no, it's not me, it's me, I'm uncle. It's just that they're daughters of one of my sisters, but this one.
Line 330	Alfredo Valenzuela: I suffered a lot in my jobs, in the fields, in the cold, instead of working and instead of me being young and everything instead of me not having, I ran out of it because they sent me a check for 350 dollars at that time and.
Line 331	Patricia McDaniel: Who.
Line 332	Alfredo Valenzuela: The government. And then this was like 1946, 1952 they took it away from me because at first I already had it and since I had already reached the age, they couldn't give me that money anymore and it was for me, for me to eat and today and I had to pay rent and buy for my girls who, well we would say they weren't mine, but it was like I was the one who with my daughters bought them clothes for school, I had everything for my mom and all that and well
Line 333	Alfredo Valenzuela: That's it, huh? I was running out of money and had to go work on the ranches, in the cold, and sometimes I didn't have a wood heater. Dad, I had to encourage them because it was all Woodstock, as they called it.
Line 334	Patricia McDaniel: And this happened to me here, no.
Line 335	Alfredo Valenzuela: It was in San Angel or Tejas or whatever. Fores Rally.
Line 336	Patricia McDaniel: Was I married?
Line 337	Alfredo Valenzuela: No no.
Line 338	Patricia McDaniel: Not yet.
Line 339	Alfredo Valenzuela: No, no. I was young. I was already very striking. Not me. Well.
Line 340	Alfredo Valenzuela: Instead of coming home tired, I would sit on the porch crying because I didn't have a dad. Well, I had a dad. But my mom wouldn't let her work. I was always there. Well, I was already tired of working, and when I was young, I already had my job. My brother already worked a lot, right? He wished he had more. I was about eight years old, and I was a hard worker, like, and that's when I grew up, and I could work.
Line 341	Alfredo Valenzuela: I didn't want to stop working there and when that money came to me, well, I could help him there, there, and then the money didn't come to me anymore and we left for Houston.
Line 342	Patricia McDaniel: Also with her mother.
Line 343	Alfredo Valenzuela: I took her with me every year, I worked on a ranch there and I came here in 1960.
Line 344	Patricia McDaniel: He came and his mother came or.
Line 345	Alfredo Valenzuela: No? She died not long ago? No, she stayed there. Mhm. She went back to her, remarried an old man, and the old man died, and she was left alone again. But they gave her another boy, a Puerto Rican, and... And he's a very big Puerto Rican, and... And she also thought I was her father, and she still lies to me, she writes to me and calls me "dad," and she thinks I'm her dad.
Line 346	Patricia McDaniel: You have been a father to many, not only to your children, your own children, but also to others as well.
Line 347	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then this kid thinks I'm his father. And one day I had to send him money to get out of jail, and he left too. We each had our own burial. Who knows, I'm already grown up. And that's all.
Line 348	Patricia McDaniel: Is it a dungeon?
Line 349	Alfredo Valenzuela: Is.
Line 350	Patricia McDaniel: Jail
Line 351	Alfredo Valenzuela: I mean.
Line 352	Patricia McDaniel: Well, I think that you have had a lot of influence on the lives of many people.
Line 353	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yeah, well, where I come from, there's poverty, right? I'm like I was when I had it. I had it.
Line 354	Alfredo Valenzuela: That's why we were there, as big as I say, not so big anymore, as we were poor with some money an aunt left me, right? But from there I bought a house, but my brother got sick, they sold everything again, and my brother, my half-brother. Um. And I didn't know how to write, but I could write very well, "Send me money," right?
Line 355	Alfredo Valenzuela: Mom said, send me money and... And he asked for $500, $600 and all that money was being taken from my money that I had in the bank and until I went bankrupt. And now it's not true that no, that I was back in the same, in the same place. I had to keep working all day. As I told him at the end, the money was given to...
Line 356	Alfredo Valenzuela: There's no greater joy. I've never had one. Don't you cook? Well, I've been working all the time, and I've worked pretty hard, pretty hard. Work, because I admit that sometimes my hands have been broken, that I never get calluses. I seem to have a woman's hand or something, but my hands have been cut off in so much time. They.
Line 357	Patricia McDaniel: But the work is very hard there and for a long time too.
Line 358	Alfredo Valenzuela: Now you know the body I had when I was young, really big, what body do I have now?
Line 359	Patricia McDaniel: And their children continue working as well.
Line 360	Alfredo Valenzuela: If you work the same way, you are good workers and everything.
Line 361	Patricia McDaniel: And they have the one that you have put in place, they have given their children a or have put a value on education so that they can lead a different or better life or.
Line 362	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I've done my best to talk to them and tell them, "Okay," and they've said, "I'll do my best." We're here, we're going to do everything possible to be like you say, that they want to be like me, a part of everything. Look, I've been there, I've been in that place where I got married, up there, for 25 years. Mhm, up there, I've been married for 25 years.
Line 363	Alfredo Valenzuela: Okay. In that portrait, I showed you a wedding, like when a young man got married, it cost me almost $2,000. That one. That dress cost almost $1,000. Since I had money, a whole day like that. There it is, in a box.
Line 364	Patricia McDaniel: There it is.
Line 365	Alfredo Valenzuela: And him. And him.
Line 366	Alfredo Valenzuela: And then, in that portrait, I showed them that the food I bought that day cost quite a bit. So did he. Almost 700 people came to that wedding. At the café. And there was enough food left over for, like, a week. Take all the food there is. I'm not going to eat it.
Line 367	Alfredo Valenzuela: That means that I, as they saw me, tell them I want you to do the same. I'm already old and pretty, and I, your mother, tell them, "Hey," and look, I told them you can do this, and I know you're embarrassed. And they got married, and they didn't get married like me. The only one who got married was that chubby girl they were going to, and now it's that...
Line 368	Patricia McDaniel: She is the one who is.
Line 369	Alfredo Valenzuela: That's the only one who got married, and the others never did. I mean, only this one got married. She's 22, my.
Line 370	Alfredo Valenzuela: And her, huh? But I showed them how I got married, and that's how I want to see them. Let's see if they can get married when they're about ten. If they want. They don't get married. Let's see if they buy them wives. Husbands deserve it. Right? I got married when I was 15. I got married when I was 15, just like her.
Line 371	Alfredo Valenzuela: At 20, I remarried, and at 25 and a half, I remarried at 30. And I didn't. I couldn't because there were so many marriages coming up. They didn't give me the go-ahead. Well, I told them. So I waited until I was 35, which is almost there. We're 32 now. We have three more years to go.
Line 372	Patricia McDaniel: Three more years for you.
Line 373	Alfredo Valenzuela: 35
Line 374	Patricia McDaniel: 35 years old.
Line 375	Alfredo Valenzuela: To get married again. Like this.
Line 376	Patricia McDaniel: It is. There is still a little bit left.
Line 377	Patricia McDaniel: That's very good. Well, let's see. Me. And I can. No, I don't know, for example, that when you were very young, you just walked around. Your mother walked around without having a person of much influence in your life. A. I don't know what's going on here, but it always stops. And. But without having a. Without having that person of much influence.
Line 378	Patricia McDaniel: You continue. Let's go. He grew up with a very strong foundation. With some. Let's go, as they say. They made some very strong traditions based on a sense of self and how to behave very well. And all of this.
Line 379	Alfredo Valenzuela: Yes, like that. So, this me, that I've been like that, like that, all the time, like that, I've seen other people who are suffering and I help them even if I don't have money, but I can help them with food. If they bring $123.4, they need it, I help them, I help them in any way, I help them in one way or another and that's how I am, this is my heart, that's how it is and I've always been very frank and very friendly and.
Line 380	Alfredo Valenzuela: And always. And I know what poverty is like. I come from there and... We'll go. I've never done anything less than anyone from my home all the time. If someone comes and says, "I need this and I need that, I need sugar, I need this and this, it's fine." I have it. I have my...
Line 381	Patricia McDaniel: And that influence you're passing on isn't passed on to others like that. No, but when you were young or very young, there was no one in your life to teach you how to be you?
Line 382	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I wanted to teach my cousins, my uncles, everyone. But since they were raised like me, they were raised in you. Everyone was in you. In them. They were very powerful. And they believed that because they were in a very large town, they believed they had everything right. But like me, I was very different from them. Even though I was a nephew of the same blood and everything.
Line 383	Alfredo Valenzuela: But I wasn't like them, you know? I wasn't a man of pity. I was a man I looked up to. A man who needed shoes. I gave him shoes. If that man needed a pair of pants, I'd give him a pair of pants or something. If he needed food, I'd help him with food, and my uncles, my aunts, or something like that.
Line 384	Alfredo Valenzuela: And when you were already in it, they didn't help anyone. Right?
Line 385	Patricia McDaniel: How do you think you came to be like this? Just like how this person and the others turned out different. It's you who's different for having as much hurt or feeling for you as you say.
Line 386	Alfredo Valenzuela: What I believe was like this, right? Once, as I'm telling you, since I was a Christian, I had a sister, the two half-brothers I had. They took me when I was little to the, to the, to the movies, right? And then. And I had never been to a movie until that day. Until that day. Then they took me and they were showing the view of Jesus when they hanged him.
Line 387	Alfredo Valenzuela: So when they were hanging him up and hammering the nails into his hands, I started screaming, and my hands started hurting. And I screamed, and... And I was inside of me there. And my brothers told me, "Shut up, because you're crazy," and... And I looked like this and screamed and cried. And then, well, and somehow, my sisters took me out of there because they think I was crazy.
Line 388	Alfredo Valenzuela: And so when I played with cars there with the kids or something, I watched movies and looked at the hands where they were doing it and suddenly I would shout, "Guess what?" and I would shout, "Maybe 15 days," or something like that. And I think that's why I was very different from the kids. I think it was that God chose me for something else, or I don't know what would happen, and my life is very different from that because there are good people, right?
Line 389	Alfredo Valenzuela: But as good as I am, I don't know how good, eh? Let's say, I was. Well, I helped my people a lot, too. The poor people.
Line 390	Alfredo Valenzuela: And wherever I went, I always limited myself. And even now, after so many years and years and years have passed, I still remember those people and and and instead of thinking, What would happen when all those people died? The young people who play cars with me, What would happen to those kids? And I... Well, always. I stay thinking, right?
Line 391	Alfredo Valenzuela: And well, I don't know if I'll go see him or not, because I tell myself, instead of having money, I don't have money to go and take a trip there, and now that I'm married, he's not much different from what the lady says he is. Well, it's not that far, I believe it, and I'm alone again, and I want to go myself.
Line 392	Alfredo Valenzuela: Well, I want to take her. And no, I don't have time because I have to work, so let me live. No, no, no, you're not going, you're staying. The house is here, I'm here. I can't go out, but I'd like to. And instead of taking her there when I have time and taking her for walks, I'm here and seeing things.

Varela, Elvira

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Line 1	Martha Torrez: Today is October 19, 1991. I'm interviewer Marta Torres. I'm with Mrs. Elvira Varela today. Mrs. Varela. Yes. Her address is 9 17th Street, in the city of Pocatelo. Who are you going to? It's approximately 3:05 p.m. Good afternoon, Mrs. Varela.
Line 2	Elvira Varela: It's late.
Line 3	Martha Torrez: Um. Thank you for your time this afternoon, and I'd like to start this interview with the first question: What is your family like? When did your family arrive in Idaho?
Line 4	Elvira Varela: Like my husband and I. If we came here, we came to. When we got married, a cousin of mine went to Texas for school, for a wedding, and brought us for our honeymoon. And that's how we stayed here.
Line 5	Martha Torrez: What year was that?
Line 6	Elvira Varela: That was in '52. Then '53. '50.
Line 7	Martha Torrez: And three, 53. Where did they come to?
Line 8	Elvira Varela: Pocatelo
Line 9	Martha Torrez: Tell me about this when you came here. How did you come? You came where. What mode of transportation did you use to get here?
Line 10	Elvira Varela: We came in my cousin's car. Just like he did. He brought us there. We didn't have a car or anything. We don't have a car, absolutely nothing. And like I said, we were married. We came here and lived with them for two months, and then my ex-husband got a job at Silplash, where he worked for two years.
Line 11	Martha Torrez: Did he struggle to find work?
Line 12	Elvira Varela: No, because he knows English very well and... And for him, he never... He never worked in the fields, in the labors. Like that. No, no, or no?
Line 13	Martha Torrez: You didn't have any of that experience? No. What do you remember about Idaho? The. The first time you came. What. What's it like here?
Line 14	Elvira Varela: Oh, God! It's like air. We liked it quite a bit. And it was more different than Texas, and... But it almost reminded me a lot of the state of Iowa.
Line 15	Martha Torrez: That was what he liked about.
Line 16	Elvira Varela: There. From here. The mountains.
Line 17	Martha Torrez: This seems different to me because most people say they came here looking for a job opportunity, right? Well, that's why his story is a little different. Yes, the summer weather seemed cold to him.
Line 18	Elvira Varela: Well yes, Cold. Yeah.
Line 19	Martha Torrez: When you came here, where did you live first, did you buy a house or rent it or not?
Line 20	Elvira Varela: When we came here, we lived with his cousin, with my cousin. Then, when my husband got a job, we moved over there on Seventh Street and lived in an apartment for two years. After that, that was around '54, and in '55, my daughter was born. We lived in a house too. We never lived in a ranch, we never lived in a ranch.
Line 21	Elvira Varela: So in '59 we bought a house, which is the one I have now.
Line 22	Martha Torrez: Didn't your family work in the fields at some point?
Line 23	Elvira Varela: Me? You. Yes, me. But no, no, no, my family, my husband and I. No, it wasn't, it was. We went. When we came here it was. The life we led was different. But I did. I did. I worked in labor and I stopped for another. But it stayed with me. You know, people. I did, but I didn't get married. That ended for me, because many people know Esteban and he knows that he never...
Line 24	Elvira Varela: He always did. He worked here for two years and then for 26 years. And my children were educated here. I never worked, I never had three children until we started this, this business.
Line 25	Martha Torrez: Do you remember that there were a lot of Mexican people in this area when you came?
Line 26	Elvira Varela: Yes, there were, but they were the families who were here, who were raised here, and their parents who had come from Mexico many years ago. Now, there are many Mexican people who come from Texas, and everyone understands. But I remember when we came here, many things weren't available.
Line 27	Martha Torrez: Like what.
Line 28	Elvira Varela: Like chili, as well as tortillas, something like that, at least not even pinto beans could be found because they weren't.
Line 29	Martha Torrez: What he did to people, right? Because one is accustomed to it by law.
Line 30	Elvira Varela: I remember that we used to go to Salt Lake and bring things like that, but later he went to the Mexicans and we got more of that.
Line 31	Martha Torrez: Aside from that, do you recall any other problems Mexicans had with getting treatment at work, or with discrimination? Do you recall anything?
Line 32	Elvira Varela: No, but I saw discrimination in my life in Texas, but something didn't or what.
Line 33	Martha Torrez: Curious.
Line 34	Elvira Varela: No? My children, as I say, were raised here, along with other people. Well, that's a bad thing to say. I don't know how you think about it, but more so with Americans, with Mexicans. And they've never had any problems.
Line 35	Martha Torrez: They never.
Line 36	Elvira Varela: And my daughter is married to an American, and my son to an American woman from there. But as I said, never us. But we have heard now, in this era, right now, that there are more of them. I don't know why it is because there are more Mexicans, well, I don't know. And we always told our children that they were Mexican. They should be proud of who they were, that they were Mexican, but since there weren't many opportunities for them to speak Spanish, just what we spoke at home, they spoke what they learned, but they were raised in Spain to speak a lot of Spanish.
Line 37	Martha Torrez: It's for you.
Line 38	Elvira Varela: Important? Yes, of course, of course. But that's how they stayed, and that's how it was.
Line 39	Martha Torrez: We're talking about education. Let's get to the topic. You had an education, you went to school.
Line 40	Elvira Varela: Just up to the Fifth Grade.
Line 41	Martha Torrez: In Texas. In Texas? Up there. What do you remember from your school years in Texas?
Line 42	Elvira Varela: Well, I could tell you.
Line 43	Martha Torrez: I find something curious. It was because you did mention discrimination. But in the state of Texas. Do you remember?
Line 44	Elvira Varela: Anything? Yes, because that's where I went to school. There were schools for Mexicans and schools for other people, for American children. And that's why I think, if there was discrimination, why couldn't we all go together like here, if my children went to school and have never gone to a school separate from the Americans.
Line 45	Martha Torrez: And now I understand.
Line 46	Elvira Varela: That's what I thought when I wasn't here, when I was already growing up, when I was older, there were many places where Mexicans couldn't enter. Mhm. I remember lying about the deal, the movies. There were so many Americans that it was just pure Americans. I got into the American deal. That was good. The beginning of the 50s to 49 50s. There's still a lot that I think is gone.
Line 47	Elvira Varela: It's not that much. Wow. But there was a lot of it back then. And years ago, there were even more.
Line 48	Martha Torrez: And you liked school when you.
Line 49	Elvira Varela: Oh yes, of course, just to work and help my parents with the chores. That's why the three oldest members of my family, my brothers and sisters, were quite educated. The rest of us were, since they finished school. I have three: two brothers who graduated and two sisters. Mhm.
Line 50	Martha Torrez: This one already once in the state of Idaho, they went straight to this area, they lived or this one lived in some other towns here since being there.
Line 51	Elvira Varela: There was caution here.
Line 52	Martha Torrez: You say you went to school in Texas, right? And that the Mexican students were separated from the American students? Language—that is, the language—wasn't a problem for you there when you were in school. No.
Line 53	Elvira Varela: No, I don't think so.
Line 54	Martha Torrez: What were they talking about when they went to the.
Line 55	Elvira Varela: Spanish School Until we were in class.
Line 56	Martha Torrez: Yes, but in class they talked.
Line 57	Elvira Varela: Yeah.
Line 58	Elvira Varela: Mhm.
Line 59	Elvira Varela: And then I remember that the teachers spoke Spanish with us too.
Line 60	Martha Torrez: Um. Tell me about your teachers. Are there any? Do you remember any who were special teachers for you? Tell me about your experience with your teachers.
Line 61	Elvira Varela: Well, I remember when I was in second grade, I had, uh, these teachers. I can't remember their names.
Line 62	Elvira Varela: But she was the best teacher I remember my brother and I having.
Line 63	Martha Torrez: How was it better?
Line 64	Elvira Varela: Well, she felt it. No, I did. I thought it took more time that year. I thought it already took more time for us to learn than when I moved on to another grade that was more different. But that teacher would come to my house, take us, and then she would explain to us more, much more. I remember, I was seven years old.
Line 65	Elvira Varela: That was how it was, things like that, but not very, very, not very clear.
Line 66	Martha Torrez: Okay, so let's go with this one, it seems like you. Education is important to you because your children studied this. The education that was for their parents was important to them too.
Line 67	Elvira Varela: Well, yes, it was. But they couldn't do more than what they could do in those years, which was very different from how it is now. My father really valued us working in the fields with him and not being in school, because the need couldn't have been greater. The need in those years was very different, very, very different, normal.
Line 68	Elvira Varela: My family had thousands of families, and that's how they lived, at least in Texas. We love them from Texas. We'll cross north to work like that. When I got married, it was very different. I changed from one life to another, very, very different. Because, as I say, my ex-husband wasn't him. He was more, much more educated than me because he finished school and all that.
Line 69	Elvira Varela: I never knew his father about him. I never had to leave the state because he's from Texas, and I never had to leave to look for work like I ever did. My parents did.
Line 70	Martha Torrez: What would you say was the difference? That's because of education.
Line 71	Elvira Varela: Well, I think so.
Line 72	Martha Torrez: In your view, how have you seen educational opportunities change since you were a child? Not now? Well, tell me about that. How do you think they've changed?
Line 73	Elvira Varela: Well, it has changed in the way that.
Line 74	Martha Torrez: Let's talk about Mexican-American students here in Idaho. What opportunities do you think exist now that didn't exist before?
Line 75	Elvira Varela: Well, there are many, many opportunities. How incredible there were back then.
Line 76	Elvira Varela: Why? First of all, hardly anyone works in the fields anymore, right? There need to be more opportunities for them to work. Parents work in different jobs, and children have plenty of opportunities.
Line 77	Martha Torrez: Do you think that Mexican-American students here in the state of Idaho are doing well in school, that they have a good education here in the United States?
Line 78	Elvira Varela: Of course. In your.
Line 79	Martha Torrez: Let's change the subject a bit. Now, this is the economy. It seems like you've worked almost your entire life, right? Can you describe your first job? And how old were you when you had your first job?
Line 80	Elvira Varela: I work mine.
Line 81	Elvira Varela: Okay.
Line 82	Elvira Varela: Well, I was 12 years old when my dad and mom went to Michigan and we worked in the beet field.
Line 83	Martha Torrez: Do you remember how you were paid, or how much you were paid? No, not that time.
Line 84	Elvira Varela: No, not that.
Line 85	Martha Torrez: What? What kind of work did your father and mother do?
Line 86	Elvira Varela: The same.
Line 87	Martha Torrez: Pure labor. Huh? What crops do you harvest? He doesn't remember.
Line 88	Elvira Varela: Beets? We continued. We continued with the work, the beets, cucumbers, and all that. My meats. Potatoes here, orange trees, fish. Lots of potatoes.
Line 89	Martha Torrez: Do you think your financial position is better now than your parents'?
Line 90	Elvira Varela: Oh, well yes, of course, a thousand times.
Line 91	Martha Torrez: Because you don't, don't, don't work in the field anymore, right? It seems you have a good business here.
Line 92	Martha Torrez: He was explaining the conditions for farm workers. They still have problems with this today. Housing, and sometimes they don't even want to pay them the minimum wage. What kind of conditions do you remember? When you were working in the fields? Tell me about your experience.
Line 93	Elvira Varela: Well.
Line 94	Elvira Varela: No? Ah, like you say. No, it wasn't like that, because I remember we lived in a very good house, an old one, a house on a ranch. But it was, it was, it had all the charms and everything, absolutely everything. We lived there for seven years, and well, that was in Greeley, Colorado, and my dad had a very big house. There were all the people who lived there with their different rooms. My dad would grab the best, like the closet, but anyway, it was a very, very good place, and when we went to Texas to the cotton, to the, to the cotton there was also a...
Line 95	Elvira Varela: For many years we did it with just one rancher. My dad farmed acres of land.
Line 96	Martha Torrez: Cotton.
Line 97	Elvira Varela: And no, it wasn't ever heard. Maybe I hear it more now. I don't know, but at that time I didn't hear it as much. Like that.
Line 98	Martha Torrez: I've talked to quite a few people at times, haven't I? Some people think that farmers still do the work they do because that's what they want to do. Yes, that's not the case; they have the same opportunities as all the other people who remain there because that's where they want to be. What do you think about that?
Line 99	Martha Torrez: What do you think?
Line 100	Elvira Varela: Well, I don't. Yeah, well, it's like everyone else, right? They think what they want. If that person is happy doing that, then fine. But I think we should all move forward, not continue with the same old thing.
Line 101	Martha Torrez: Do you think that anyone who would like to do that?
Line 102	Elvira Varela: Could anything help? Of course, and now there are many opportunities for those who can't speak English to learn it. There are many, many, and they don't even have to pay for those night schools and all that. So if that person doesn't want to improve, well, it's their own fault.
Line 103	Martha Torrez: It seems like you're in a pretty good position now, right? You have your own business. Can you tell me a little about how you decided to open your own business, and if it was difficult?
Line 104	Elvira Varela: Well, it wasn't me who decided. It was my ex-husband. I didn't want anything to do with business or...
Line 105	Martha Torrez: No.
Line 106	Elvira Varela: Because.
Line 107	Elvira Varela: No, he was the one who wanted it. He wanted it, but it wasn't until we were here. Well, we both worked for many years in this restaurant, for 14 years together. And now I've been single for two years because I have my husband. When we divorced, he handed everything over to me. Well, I kept the business and... And I like it a lot. I like it a lot because I've met a lot of people and I like to be a business woman.
Line 108	Elvira Varela: Mhm. And I've learned a lot. And now I have my son, who helps me, and we're the owners.
Line 109	Martha Torrez: They fought like this to start one How it was.
Line 110	Elvira Varela: Well, when we started the business, we started. We were three couples, right? Three couples. So, because the first couple that started with us for the first three months wasn't suitable for them, so we bought them. And where did they end up then? We followed the other two couples. Three more years later, we opened here in 1975, and then in 1978, the second couple came.
Line 111	Elvira Varela: They didn't want to either. We're staying here with my ex-husband until we're 70, 80, or 98. I'm alone today.
Line 112	Martha Torrez: The effort must be quite genuine. If a business is successful.
Line 113	Elvira Varela: It was going to take a lot of work, a lot of work and and and it has gone very well for me not to.
Line 114	Elvira Varela: Leave it very well.
Line 115	Martha Torrez: How did you know about this kind of job? There was an opportunity, right?
Line 116	Elvira Varela: Well, Esteban—that's my ex-husband's name. He always wanted to do business. He and I, alone, opened this first Mexican restaurant in Pocatelo, where there was never anyone. We opened it in '61 here, because we only had that restaurant for a year and a half. I had my little children, they were babies, and I couldn't handle it. And then my son, who is sick, I told him about it, had a lot of problems with him, and this afternoon at the border crossing, he never left his job.
Line 117	Elvira Varela: We just have a restaurant on the side, so it's better if we don't continue with it. But he always, always wanted a restaurant. He was a broadcaster for many years, or many years on behalf of the...
Line 118	Elvira Varela: Yes, he had his radio show for 28 years and television for about ten years.
Line 119	Martha Torrez: See what you like most about your business.
Line 120	Elvira Varela: Well, I like everything.
Line 121	Martha Torrez: And I was going to ask you what you like least?
Line 122	Elvira Varela: Well, I like money.
Line 123	Martha Torrez: That's all we have there. We all have something in common, right? We all like money.
Line 124	Martha Torrez: You have your own house, right? Are you buying your own house or do you already have one? Of all the cities or towns in Idaho, which one do you like best? Obviously. This is it. The town of Pocatello. You've experienced it, haven't you? Quite a lot.
Line 125	Elvira Varela: And this one is 37 years old.
Line 126	Martha Torrez: Tell me something about the community.
Line 127	Elvira Varela: Well, well. Well, well.
Line 128	Martha Torrez: Are you a member of any organizations or of this one? Of those of the Church?
Line 129	Elvira Varela: Yes, from the Catholic Church. Well, I'm Catholic, I'm a member, and I'm always very, very helpful in everything, and then I'm a member of the Ladies' Association.
Line 130	Elvira Varela: From the Association, which also applies to everything. And this applies to two of those two.
Line 131	Martha Torrez: What's most important to you, your community? What do you think is most important?
Line 132	Elvira Varela: There are so many things that seem important to me.
Line 133	Martha Torrez: Or tell me some.
Line 134	Elvira Varela: Well, I'm not. I don't even know.
Line 135	Martha Torrez: Mrs. Varela, I'd like to ask you a few questions about your family. When you were a child, you lived at home. What do you remember about your parents when you were growing up?
Line 136	Elvira Varela: As a child, I was growing up like what?
Line 137	Martha Torrez: Like someone who lived. Like, for example, let's say. Describe a typical day in your family. There were some things that were okay for men, but different for women. I mean, when it comes to discipline, for example, was this the same for your brothers as it was for you?
Line 138	Martha Torrez: Yes, it was.
Line 139	Elvira Varela: Different. Yes. My dad and mom were very energetic people, and they were all exactly the same. They would leave if something was hurt, or if something was wrong. They punished me and taught us to respect, especially the respect they had, was very, very great, for them, for our grandparents, our uncles, and aunts. We have to respect them, and to this day, that is a very great respect, which I see today is lacking.
Line 140	Elvira Varela: There aren't any boys. But in my time, a girl told me when she was a little girl, they did something more, they even hit us, they punished us, but in a way that wasn't them, they weren't bad fathers, at least not my dad. It seems to me that no one has, no one has a father like the one I had, because my mom too, my mom because my mom was always more, more, more with more, as I told you, well, she was stricter.
Line 141	Elvira Varela: My dad let us have more little things and stuff like that. But whenever he said something like that, it had to be because my dad loved us girls a lot, a little more than my brothers did back then.
Line 142	Martha Torrez: So it was even, right?
Line 143	Elvira Varela: Yes, yes, uh-huh. Mhm.
Line 144	Martha Torrez: They allowed you to go out with friends.
Line 145	Elvira Varela: Or not, when he was already big, which was the case. We already knew what he was up to.
Line 146	Elvira Varela: Because that has never been allowed.
Line 147	Elvira Varela: That's been allowed. I don't think so. No, no, we were nothing. Well, I don't think so. Nothing more. I did it all. All the young women in that era, we all had to hide from each other. No.
Line 148	Martha Torrez: But when it came to family decisions, who was it? The one who made the decisions? His mother or his father?
Line 149	Elvira Varela: Well, at my house my mom made the decision. Yes, my mom made the decision, like, "Yo yo." I saw that it was my mom, that my dad always made it. I would say, "Well, what are you saying, old lady?" You have to say "old lady," and it was because you and my mom were the ones who decided. Yeah. So that's it.
Line 150	Martha Torrez: All the children had to provide for the family, because I remember and know that in Mexican culture it has almost always been customary for children to work and give back.
Line 151	Elvira Varela: Yes, yes.
Line 152	Martha Torrez: It was from.
Line 153	Elvira Varela: That office. It was when I was at home, in my house, when we were growing up. Yeah.
Line 154	Martha Torrez: And everyone had to share.
Line 155	Elvira Varela: Yeah, yeah, we all worked, and my dad came home with the money, but we didn't lack anything at all. We're Christians. Okay, so we go to the movies, we have something to watch wherever we want. And I remember when I turned 16, I bought my first car. Mhm, my brother too. He bought one, and so once we had the truck we used to go north and all that.
Line 156	Elvira Varela: But I didn't always earn enough money; we always spent a lot. I have a very nice house in Texas and all that. Mhm.
Line 157	Martha Torrez: At what age did their parents consider their children to be adults?
Line 158	Elvira Varela: Well, I think my dad never kept us as adults.
Line 159	Martha Torrez: He didn't treat us like children. Yet.
Line 160	Elvira Varela: Almost. When we left, when we got married, or when he thought we were, we weren't little kids anymore, but we were at home, at my house, because we were his. We never grew up.
Line 161	Martha Torrez: Is there anyone you'd say has more than... I mean, outside of your family, right? Do you know anyone you'd say you respect a lot or who's had a lot of influence on your life? Um, yeah, it's a friend or...
Line 162	Elvira Varela: Well, she's a friend? One Several I can't say one, right? Yes, That.
Line 163	Martha Torrez: In what way? Tell me. You don't have to name names, just how it was, and why you respect them. In what way?
Line 164	Elvira Varela: How do they respect him? Well, in my many years, I don't know how to explain that, but as I said...
Line 165	Elvira Varela: Well, they respect me like, oh, I have my business and, well, I think that because, because I have my business, they give me, they give me that fame or they think that and they've told me no, they just really think that I've achieved something. Mhm. Although it's cost me a lot because I work, I know that the kitchen is what I prepare, but I have to give them my help, right?
Line 166	Elvira Varela: I've done it myself, you understand, and I'm the way I am because it's cost me a lot to have my business and all that.
Line 167	Martha Torrez: I'm talking about our Mexican culture, right? Do you remember any sayings that are true or tell me about some expressions or sayings that you like or that you think are correct?
Line 168	Elvira Varela: Oh my God, as I said.
Line 169	Elvira Varela: Oh God.
Line 170	Martha Torrez: From a saying Mhm. Tell me about a saying that you remember.
Line 171	Elvira Varela: Well, I do remember when we were young, and my parents couldn't get away from some bad company, or that their children had bad parents, or something like that. The ones who didn't want us to hang out with him, they told us, "Look, the reason is because there's a saying that goes, 'Tell me who you hang out with, and I'll tell you who you are.'"
Line 172	Martha Torrez: And what does that mean for you?
Line 173	Elvira Varela: Well, it's true.
Line 174	Elvira Varela: Mhm.
Line 175	Elvira Varela: That's the one. It's just. Is it real?
Line 176	Martha Torrez: Yes, because I remember my father telling us that to this day, too. Right? And that means if you hang around with bad company, you'll be doing the same.
Line 177	Elvira Varela: In bad company.
Line 178	Martha Torrez: The same.
Line 179	Elvira Varela: But there's also another one who says, "Yes, they take care of you, well, if you're among the number, you get burned." Yeah, but anyway, the, the, the. The thing is. That's always been there. That's it, right? Because I also think about my children. If that person is bad. Anyway, one, I say on my behalf. Oh, I don't think, right? I'm going to treat her. I'm going to come to what she treats me like.
Line 180	Elvira Varela: And it doesn't matter what kind of person she is, whether she's a bad woman, or if she treats me well, I care about their lives, right? But a lot of people take it as if you don't count on that. Well, yeah, you've lost your respect. They already think you're the same. Mhm.
Line 181	Martha Torrez: This was when you were at home, right? Growing up. Do you remember celebrating occasions you didn't celebrate?
Line 182	Elvira Varela: Yeah
Line 183	Martha Torrez: Let's see, talk.
Line 184	Elvira Varela: Well, I remember that the most you were at Christmas, Christmas, New Year's, the most on the birthdays of all of us, you always left them to see time.
Line 185	Martha Torrez: Tell me something about Christmas. What memories!
Line 186	Elvira Varela: Oh, Christmas is still here. Well, for many years I thought I even cried, because when we came here, we came from a large family and the grandparents, right? But I remember that. My dad would go and grab a mesquite tree when he couldn't get a Christmas tree. There aren't many mesquite trees in Texas, and he didn't fix it like that, right?
Line 187	Elvira Varela: And then there was my mom, when they counted the little ones before another one stopped and would give them more money later, right? Because we were little, my dad didn't have much. She made little claw dolls and papaya dolls, wooden cars, or something for my little brothers. And we took that with Christmas. We were happy with things like that.
Line 188	Martha Torrez: Nowadays it's 1 to 1.
Line 189	Elvira Varela: What a shame! My children, not me anymore. I used to tell them, and no, no, they don't believe that I think that's how it was when I was growing up and that we loved each other very much. Anyway, there was happiness, right? In sweets and whatever.
Line 190	Martha Torrez: TRUE?
Line 191	Elvira Varela: Well, Christmas was a very, very important thing in my family. Very, very important.
Line 192	Martha Torrez: And yet.
Line 193	Elvira Varela: It will continue halfway through Mass, when the Midnight Mass is what my dad calls it, and from time to time the girl would take him home to drink hot chocolate.
Line 194	Elvira Varela: AND.
Line 195	Martha Torrez: And you followed the same thing.
Line 196	Elvira Varela: He said Yes, just like, just like another one.
Line 197	Martha Torrez: Another holiday. Do you remember it being very special?
Line 198	Elvira Varela: Very special for us. Oh my God! Well.
Line 199	Elvira Varela: Well, bad. Birthdays weren't celebrated. But the most important thing of the year was Christmas in the world.
Line 200	Martha Torrez: Why other family customs, right? You remember that? Oh, you've continued practicing this like when you were with your family? Now that you're a mother and have your own...
Line 201	Elvira Varela: Sundays.
Line 202	Martha Torrez: What's up.
Line 203	Elvira Varela: Sundays, because I used to do it on Sundays. I don't do it much anymore, really, but on Sundays, I remember when I was at home with my grandma, we all got together at my grandma's house. It was a family of siblings, uncles, and my mom, and it was like eating special food, trays of broth, everything. So that's how I grew up on Sundays.
Line 204	Elvira Varela: Sundays were very important, right? Well, when I got married, and already had my family, I did the same. And on Sundays, I was never going to take the whole week off at home with my children, but now I spend Sundays with my grandchildren and my children. Are they married? I have one who's single, they're just married. That's their day.
Line 205	Martha Torrez: Everyone gathers at his house.
Line 206	Elvira Varela: Or at my son's house. My daughter? I mean, go. But that's the very important day. Me. You know, because when they were little, I used to. So I imposed security on them, and everyone works. But that day is ours. The only bad thing is that I do something special there, that they have to go somewhere, or, like, go somewhere.
Line 207	Elvira Varela: So they're not as important anymore. But Sunday is the most important day: to go there, read, and attend Mass, and then we meet.
Line 208	Martha Torrez: You're talking about customs and traditions, right? From what they were from Mexico—I mean, Texas, right? So, it's important to you to maintain those customs and traditions?
Line 209	Elvira Varela: Clear.
Line 210	Martha Torrez: Why do you think it is important?
Line 211	Elvira Varela: Because we are Mexicans and we must never lose it.
Line 212	Martha Torrez: We had the same ones.
Line 213	Martha Torrez: I think they are important to maintain.
Line 214	Elvira Varela: Yes, yes, they are, and they are quite important. But they are missing a lot of people. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's carrying them.
Line 215	Martha Torrez: Why do you think that is?
Line 216	Elvira Varela: Because it's mainly about Mexican culture and customs. Well, when a Mexican marries an American woman and loses her, you understand? I maintained that with my children. They were young, single people in my house, but now they're married. Sometimes they don't even think I'm Mexican. It's lost.
Line 217	Martha Torrez: He loses that one. Do his children see it?
Line 218	Elvira Varela: Yes, I see it in my children, but I'll never stop coming home. But among them, no, it's not, it's not the same as when I loved them. They. I know it's from now on, it's very different.
Line 219	Martha Torrez: And what does religion mean to you today?
Line 220	Elvira Varela: Religion is a very sacred thing for me. It's Catholic. Yes, very Catholic.
Line 221	Martha Torrez: His children.
Line 222	Elvira Varela: Also. Mhm. They are also Catholics whose wives are married.
Line 223	Martha Torrez: How did he meet you? Your husband?
Line 224	Elvira Varela: As?
Line 225	Martha Torrez: I met If it's not very personal, right?
Line 226	Elvira Varela: You? Mhm. Oh my God.
Line 227	Elvira Varela: Oh! Well, I met him.
Line 228	Elvira Varela: At a dance. At the.
Line 229	Martha Torrez: We all like to dance.
Line 230	Martha Torrez: Describe your wedding. Did you have a big wedding?
Line 231	Elvira Varela: Yeah.
Line 232	Martha Torrez: Let's see, tell me a little about my wedding.
Line 233	Elvira Varela: Okay. Well, we got married on November 2nd. The Day of the Dead for Mexicans. Yes.
Line 234	Elvira Varela: TRUE?
Line 235	Elvira Varela: From '52. In the case of horsemen, horses, Libertad in '53 and... I had... I wore my wedding dress. I brought seven bridesmaids and we had dancing. All of that was a Mexican wedding.
Line 236	Martha Torrez: Of course. A mass and.
Line 237	Elvira Varela: Everything. Everything like that for the church? Of course. For the church. With mass, with lunch, with dinner, with everything, with dancing. And then, two weeks after we were married, we moved here. And so we're here. In Naranjo, and here we go, a little bit of TV from here. No, they haven't moved us anywhere to live here. Right? But I do really like my Fox tree.
Line 238	Elvira Varela: If it were another place for me, I'd live there. Now they're the only ones I have to sort out.
Line 239	Martha Torrez: On the topic of identity, this one. Before the recording, we were discussing how many people consider themselves Mexican, others Mexican-American, and others Hispanic or Latino—that's sort of their identity. What do you think about that for yourself?
Line 240	Elvira Varela: Well, I think I'm Mexican-American because I'm Mexican by race and American because I was born in the United States. Mhm.
Line 241	Martha Torrez: And what is that? Is that what you base your identity on? Because you're born with it.
Line 242	Elvira Varela: Mhm. Because I don't know anything about Mexico. Absolutely nothing. I'd like to know, but nothing, nothing. I mean, I've never been to Mexico, not even to the borders, that's all. But I believe in Mexico every day. No.
Line 243	Martha Torrez: No. But would you like to one day?
Line 244	Elvira Varela: Yes, of course, but that doesn't mean I'm not Mexican, right?
Line 245	Martha Torrez: And your parents? How did they identify as Mexicans, too?
Line 246	Elvira Varela: Yes or yes? Mainly my dad, who came from Mexico, he was from Mexico.
Line 247	Martha Torrez: He had the pride and everything.
Line 248	Elvira Varela: To be Mexican is to be pure Mexican.
Line 249	Elvira Varela: Yeah.
Line 250	Martha Torrez: For your children, what do you think identity means? They are. Do they consider themselves?
Line 251	Elvira Varela: Do they consider themselves Mexican? Of course, but I think they consider themselves less Mexican than I do, because that's the way they, as I said, were raised and lived. Well, maybe it was also our fault, right? Because they were like that at the time. Maybe we didn't know about our race or how to live, or I don't know, we let more Americans than Mexicans live.
Line 252	Elvira Varela: Mhm. And that's it? The only, only problem my children have. They don't speak Spanish, nor do they understand anything I say. But what about them having something that's just to protect themselves? And since I told you they're married, even less so, and that's what I blame myself for after so much time, because I shouldn't have done that.
Line 253	Elvira Varela: But I didn't teach them well, well.
Line 254	Martha Torrez: What advice would you give me so that this doesn't happen to me?
Line 255	Elvira Varela: Well, I want them to never stop and I want them to do it. I want them to speak Spanish, I want them to do it. I never made my children do that. Kiss me. It happened to me. Well, that was me too. I never forced them to do that. What did I have? I learned languages. That's it.
Line 256	Martha Torrez: Yes, because my father always told us to move from the door to here. Spanish. Once you get out there, you can speak English.
Line 257	Elvira Varela: And that's BC, and we, my husband, I, didn't do that. No, we didn't. And since she was much better at English, he taught them himself. There's the date.
Line 258	Martha Torrez: They communicate within themselves. My father always said that too.
Line 259	Elvira Varela: Well, I think today was the mistake I made with my ex-husband, with our children, right? And they themselves tell us, as if it were my son Steve Junior. He says it was our fault because they do, yes, true. They don't speak the languages like many other Mexicans, and yes, they're jealous, but they're trying, they want to learn, but now it's very...
Line 260	Elvira Varela: It is very difficult for them to do so.
Line 261	Martha Torrez: So, but yes, they do indicate interest in having known.
Line 262	Elvira Varela: Well yes.
Line 263	Martha Torrez: And my father has always told us if they speak two languages.
Line 264	Elvira Varela: It's better.
Line 265	Martha Torrez: People.
Line 266	Elvira Varela: Of course, and more English is better, much more, right? A person who can move forward, so to speak. And my son Steve Junior says, "If only I knew how to speak Spanish well and I could teach it to my children." Yeah, right? Of course he could. Sure, but since he can't, he can't teach there. Man.
Line 267	Martha Torrez: And to your grandchildren you say.
Line 268	Elvira Varela: I, I'm already talking to them, but.
Line 269	Martha Torrez: If you don't practice it, I can't do it.
Line 270	Elvira Varela: As I say, yes, just without touching the world, I'll see it. They'll never learn. It's that they lived with me and I did with them what I did, what I didn't do with my children, giving them food every day and not speaking English or Spanish here. And that's what they've done when they...
Line 271	Elvira Varela: That's the only bad thing I ever did in my family, and I don't regret it, and I know I'm guilty. No way.
Line 272	Martha Torrez: Well, Mrs. Barrera, I've already taken up quite a bit of your time. I know you're very busy, right? Before I leave, I'd like to ask you what you think about the effort we're making right now, to try to get this story from our Hispanic people, what's your opinion of this project?
Line 273	Elvira Varela: It's one thing. Well, it's very well done, and I like it quite a bit, and I'm proud that it's also going to be able to help with this, and I hope it helps. Without a story, it's not very good, but it is a very, very good thing.
Line 274	Martha Torrez: And before closing, I'd like to ask you: Is there anything you'd like to share with us that I might not have asked you? You may think of anything you'd like to add or not add.
Line 275	Elvira Varela: Or I don't know what there is.
Line 276	Elvira Varela: This.
Line 277	Martha Torrez: Well, at this point, I'd like to thank you for your time and your kindness. We'll be in touch with you as well.

Vasquez, Abel

Line 0
Line 1	Martha Torrez: Okay, Mr. Vasquez,
Line 2	Abel Vasquez: Okay.
Line 3	Martha Torrez: Okay. I'd like to begin by just asking you how it is that you and your family came to the state of Idaho.
Line 4	Abel Vasquez: Well, when we came to Idaho, it was much. I didn't have a choice. It was something I had to do. I was raised by my grandparents, and at the time we came to Idaho, I was only eight years old, so needless to say, I had to come to the state with my folks to work in the fields.
Line 5	Abel Vasquez: So that is how I came to be in Idaho?
Line 6	Martha Torrez: Now you were raised by your grandparents?
Line 7	Abel Vasquez: I was raised by my grandparents due to the fact that my mother died when I was very young. It was a strange story. I guess it's because when my mother and father separated, I was six months old, my mother took my older brother and raised him until she passed away in 1940.
Line 8	Abel Vasquez: But my grandmother took my older sister, Helen, and myself when we were babies, and as little kids, she raised us. So I was raised by my grandmother from early childhood.
Line 9	Martha Torrez: And so, when you were living with your grandparents, where were you living? And if you could explain to me a little bit about how it was that you came to be in Idaho.
Line 10	Abel Vasquez: How I came to be in Idaho was, we were living in Grand Junction, Colorado, and we were bean field workers. That's all we knew at the time. So we used to follow the field work. How we came to Idaho: my grandmother had a sister who lived in Salt Lake City, and we went from Grand Junction, Colorado, to Salt Lake City to visit my grandmother's sister.
Line 11	Abel Vasquez: And we stayed there maybe six months or a year, I can't really recall how long. And that was in 1937 or '38, I think the fall of 1938. In the fall of 1938, my grandfather and some other people decided to come to Idaho because there was field work to do, sugar beets.
Line 12	Martha Torrez: So the opportunity, or...
Line 13	Abel Vasquez: Job opportunity arose. And so we came to Preston Idaho, me my grandmother, my sister and my grandfather. We went to Preston Idaho in the fall of 1938.
Line 14	Martha Torrez: Did you do any other kind of farm work? Other than beets, did you work in other types of agriculture throughout the years??
Line 15	Abel Vasquez: Yeah, I remember, when we were little and stayed in Utah, we used to pull onions. I remember topping onions, somewhere close to Salt Lake. But when we came to Idaho, the season was to top beets. It was the fall of the year.
Line 16	Abel Vasquez: And so we used to meet and camp. We used a knife with a little hook on the end, like a machete, and that's what we did in 1938. We stayed there all winter of 1938. In the spring of '39, we followed the work.
Line 17	Abel Vasquez: So we came to Idaho. Why did we come to Marsing? I'm not really clear whether we knew somebody there or we just happened to say, 'Let’s go to the other part of Idaho, go to Marsing.' But all I know is that we landed in Marsing in 1939. You know, we were here before, they were here.
Line 18	Abel Vasquez: They were here.
Line 19	Martha Torrez: When you traveled to Idaho, did you come by your own transportation that year? And did you come out with other families, or was it just your family?
Line 20	Abel Vasquez: It was just my grandparents and us. We didn't know anybody. We were just by ourselves. And when we came to Marsing, I think we were by ourselves also.
Line 21	Martha Torrez: So you drove?
Line 22	Abel Vasquez: We drove here. We had, and I think it was an old pickup truck, if I'm not mistaken. But we landed in Marsing, and the ideal situation in those days was to find a farmer who had year-round work, where you could start in the spring, thin the beets, clean them, and then find some work in between. And then in the fall, you topped the beets. And so that's what we did.
Line 23	Martha Torrez: What are your very first memories of Idaho when you first got here? What did you think of it?
Line 24	Abel Vasquez: Cold, especially in eastern Idaho. It was very, very cold. And, needless to say, working in the fields as a kid, we'd go out to the beet fields, and it was so cold the leaves, the tops from the beets, would break off. They were frozen.
Line 25	Abel Vasquez: It was cold.
Line 26	Martha Torrez: So do you have any idea where you're from originally?
Line 27	Abel Vasquez: No, no, but I like it here. Yeah, it was very cold here.
Line 28	Martha Torrez: I know you said the very first place you came to was Preston.
Line 29	Abel Vasquez:
Line 30	Martha Torrez: Can you describe where you lived?
Line 31	Abel Vasquez: Well, it wasn't long ago, but I'm sure it was just a very small shack, probably just a one-room house that I can remember. We probably had to go to the farmer's house to get water.
Line 32	Abel Vasquez: We didn't have any bathroom facilities, you know, you had an outhouse. Okay, so that's what I recall mostly when I first came to Idaho: that it was cold.
Line 33	Martha Torrez: Now, once you got here, did you travel to other cities in Idaho or to other states?
Line 34	Abel Vasquez: Once we came to Idaho, we went to Marsing. We stayed in Marsing and worked in Marsing. But while we were in Marsing, we used to go to other areas, like the McCall-Donnelly area to pick peas. We used to go to Emmett to work in the pea fields.
Line 35	Abel Vasquez: And also, we used to grow carrots there, you could tie carrots in the water in the Emmett area. And I also lived temporarily, maybe two or three months, in a labor camp in Oregon.
Line 36	Martha Torrez: And what was that like?
Line 37	Abel Vasquez: As a kid, if you have your parents, or your grandparents, you don't put too much emphasis on things like we do now. You don't worry about the economics of it. You just work, go to school, and you've got a place to eat and sleep, and you're happy.
Line 38	Abel Vasquez: Okay.
Line 39	Martha Torrez: So it was positive for you?
Line 40	Abel Vasquez: Oh, yes, very positive. I remember at that particular time, when we were living in that labor camp, my older brother Rudy got really sick with a constant virus, and he just about died there. But, needless to say, he didn't.
Line 41	Martha Torrez: But so he was hospitalized?
Line 42	Abel Vasquez: No, I don't think he was. I think he was just taken care of right there in the camp. He made it through.
Line 43	Martha Torrez: Were there any other Mexican American families living in Idaho when you first arrived? Do you remember anything about the Bracero program or undocumented workers?
Line 44	Abel Vasquez: I remember when they first started to come. As far as other Hispanics being here when we first arrived, I can't recall ever seeing any. I do know that shortly after we came, other Hispanics came to live where we lived in Marsing.
Line 45	Abel Vasquez: And I do remember the Braceros, when they used to come here to work in the fields. One of the things that really used to amaze me about those poor people was that they'd work out in the fields like we used to in the wintertime, topping beets, like I was telling you about earlier.
Line 46	Abel Vasquez: And they'd wear whatever they had, and, mind you, it was a hard life for them at the time.
Line 47	Martha Torrez: What else do you remember from that era about these people who were coming in, like the Braceros?
Line 48	Abel Vasquez: The workers, when they first came here, would put up with almost anything to make money to send back to their families in Mexico. They would live in little houses bunched together, shacks all put together.
Line 49	Abel Vasquez: I do remember when we were living in Marsing in 1940–41, my grandmother used to take in boarders and cook for them. We used to have a little shack in the back, but we lived in a tent, and these people would come to work in the fields. My grandmother made extra money by giving them room and board, and she had to cook for them.
Line 50	Abel Vasquez: Sometimes there were maybe 12 to 15 people she would board, and she charged them about a dollar to a dollar and a half a day for room and board. She was doing all the cooking for those people on an old wood stove, I'm sure you've seen them. That's how she cooked for all those people.
Line 51	Martha Torrez: You mentioned these people put up with whatever they had to in order to keep working. Do you remember any kind of differential treatment they had to endure?
Line 52	Abel Vasquez: Well, I can't really say. I don't know if they were treated any differently. At my age, I thought that was just the way it was supposed to be, I thought it was normal. So it's really difficult for me to say they weren't treated fairly, because I didn't know any better.
Line 53	Martha Torrez: Do you recall any specific situation?
Line 54	Abel Vasquez: No, I don't recall a farmer ever mistreating them or discriminating against them. I cannot recall that. I know they worked hard.
Line 55	Martha Torrez: So it sounds like, compared to white workers, they did the same work.
Line 56	Abel Vasquez: Oh, no, neither did we, really. If we didn't have proper clothing for the conditions, that was our problem. Nobody supplied us with anything.
Line 57	Martha Torrez: Was that difficult? Do you remember them having to go out and work without proper clothing?
Line 58	Abel Vasquez: Again, sometimes we think ignorance is bliss. When you don't know there's something better, you do the best you can with what you have. I'm sure my grandmother and grandfather worried whether we were adequately dressed to do the job, but we didn't know any better.
Line 59	Martha Torrez: And you weren't around any other way of living, so that was normal for you: as long as you had a place to be warm and something to eat.
Line 60	Abel Vasquez: So anyway, that's what I remember about growing up as a little Mexican boy here in Marsing.
Line 61	Martha Torrez: When you worked in the fields, do you remember anything about wages, what you were paid?
Line 62	Abel Vasquez: Well, we always worked piecework, we never got paid by the hour. My grandfather always taught us, 'You're going to get paid for what you do, the more you do, the more you make.' We never worked by the hour. All piecework. I remember topping beets for six or seven dollars an acre.
Line 63	Abel Vasquez: I remember popping beets by the ton, I can't recall how much per ton, but we used to haul the tops by hand onto a truck. Sometimes the fields were so muddy we had to hitch a team of horses to the truck to pull it out because the weather was so bad. Those little things stick in my mind because they don't happen anymore.
Line 64	Martha Torrez: So work was basically just a lot harder than it is today?
Line 65	Abel Vasquez: Oh yes, right.
Line 66	Martha Torrez: I mean, you were only like ten or twelve years old.
Line 67	Abel Vasquez: And I have a grandson who's having a birthday today, he's nine years old. I sit down sometimes, didn't tell him, but I think: at eight years old, I was outside in cold weather, working alongside my grandpa topping beets. And today, we don't even think about it.
Line 68	Abel Vasquez: Yeah
Line 69	Martha Torrez: Right. Now on the subject of education, you did attend school in Marsing. Describe your earliest memory of school.
Line 70	Abel Vasquez: I started school in Grand Junction, Colorado, in first and second grade. We lived in a place called La Colonia, next to a sugar beet factory, the railroad tracks, and the river, a typical place where they put all the Hispanics.
Line 71	Abel Vasquez: I think even today we sometimes segregate ourselves, not because Anglo people separate us, but because we do it ourselves. Anyway, I remember walking to school barefoot, we didn't have money sometimes. I started school in Grand Junction up to second grade, and I started third grade in Marsing.
Line 72	Martha Torrez: Was there a difference? Did the school system feel different from Colorado to Idaho?
Line 73	Abel Vasquez: No, I don't think it was that different. At that time, school was about learning to read, write, and do arithmetic, the 'three R's.' That was most important. We didn't have all the extras we have today, but I didn't notice a real difference. In Colorado or Idaho, you learned to read, write, and do arithmetic.
Line 74	Martha Torrez: Right, school must have been nice for you. I know from my own experience that sometimes where I was raised, it was so cold I didn't have enough to keep me warm. You were one of many children, so going to school, a warm room, new pencils, Crayolas, a well-groomed teacher with polish and lipstick, was a whole new world you didn't have at home.
Line 75	Abel Vasquez: Oh yes, right.
Line 76	Martha Torrez: Because of your living conditions, school was like an escape, something nice and orderly.
Line 77	Abel Vasquez: Well-groomed.
Line 78	Martha Torrez: Teachers like that, our mothers weren't glamorous; they were busy raising children, and our fathers were out in the fields. So school was a completely different world.
Line 79	Abel Vasquez: It's a completely different world.
Line 80	Martha Torrez: Do you recall any other Hispanic children in your class when you came in third grade?
Line 81	Abel Vasquez: I was the only one, well, me and my sister were the only ones in Marsing until 1940. We were the only Hispanics.
Line 82	Martha Torrez: Probably one of the very first.
Line 83	Abel Vasquez: First, right.
Line 84	Martha Torrez: First year in this area.
Line 85	Abel Vasquez: Right, the first Hispanics I can remember. Then in 1940, some other people came from Grand Junction, and I remember them coming to live in Marsing. So it was just me and my sister who were the first Hispanics.
Line 86	Martha Torrez: Came here to set up to ah...
Line 87	Abel Vasquez: Maravilla, yeah they were there.
Line 88	Martha Torrez: How do you recall being in school as far as grades?
Line 89	Abel Vasquez: I was just an average student. My parents didn't put much emphasis on education, they figured they'd rather have a good worker than a good scholar. But we did fairly well. I never flunked a grade. The ironic thing is, we used to start school late, like in November, and only go about six months a year because we had to quit early to work in the fields and start late because harvest was still going.
Line 90	Abel Vasquez: So my teachers took extra time with me, helping me catch up. And the other kids, the Anglo kids, also helped me. All the teachers were really nice to me and my sister, and the students were very helpful.
Line 91	Martha Torrez: You started in November, it sounded like it was just you. Was that the norm for migrant families?
Line 92	Abel Vasquez: School was always September to whenever, but we had to quit and start late because September and October had the best working weather. When it got cold, we went to school all winter. Then in spring, when it warmed up, our parents pulled us out to work. That's why I never flunked, I must have had good teachers who worked hard to help me catch up.
Line 93	Martha Torrez: He was a bright boy, from what I can see. Even when I met him before we got married, I saw so much potential. He's a born mathematician. After we married, he told me that as a little boy, the older men, who couldn't read or write, would single him out to figure out their acreage and pay. He had to be a smart kid to do that.
Line 94	Martha Torrez: So your experience was shaped by the harvest, you had to leave school early.
Line 95	Abel Vasquez: You know.
Line 96	Martha Torrez: It doesn't sound like you had to move to new cities or states often, so you didn't change schools much.
Line 97	Abel Vasquez: I remember the only time I changed schools was when we came to Nampa. I started seventh grade there in 1943.
Line 98	Martha Torrez: What do you remember about being a Mexican-American student in school?
Line 99	Abel Vasquez: Being the only one, I didn't think it was any different. I played with the Anglo kids, we fit right in. I never felt out of place.
Line 100	Martha Torrez: You spoke Spanish at home and English in school, was that a problem?
Line 101	Abel Vasquez: Actually, we spoke more English at home because my grandmother was fluent in English. My step-grandfather didn't understand English, so we used Spanish for his benefit. But no, I don't recall it being a problem.
Line 102	Martha Torrez: It was more English-speaking than Spanish. It wasn't until we got married that we spoke more Spanish. I could see he was comfortable in both languages.
Line 103	Abel Vasquez: By 1943, more Hispanics were here. In fact, a family from Grand Junction came to Marsing around 1940 or '41, my grandmother knew them. They're still here, dear friends. They later moved to Nampa.
Line 104	Martha Torrez: And that's when you started seeing more of them?
Line 105	Abel Vasquez: Yes, at that time I started seeing more Hispanics in the area.
Line 106	Martha Torrez: Do you remember any teachers or school situations that stood out?
Line 107	Abel Vasquez: Yes, one. In third grade, I think I had a crush on her. Mrs. Gilmore, my teacher in Marsing. She went the extra mile to help me. She knew I needed more help than the other kids.
Line 108	Abel Vasquez: She would take me by the hand and help me. That's what teaching was to me. I'm sure she knew I'd missed school and needed to catch up.
Line 109	Martha Torrez: Tell her about when you wanted to play ball but couldn't.
Line 110	Abel Vasquez: That was in junior high, seventh grade. I wanted to go out for basketball. They said, 'Everybody who wants to play, come on down.' I was one of the first.
Line 111	Abel Vasquez: But to play, you had to furnish your own sneakers. I didn't have any, but I played barefoot the first day. The second day, I got blisters on the hardwood floor. My folks couldn't afford sneakers, so I didn't participate in basketball.
Line 112	Martha Torrez: And how did you feel about that?
Line 113	Abel Vasquez: I felt... I don't know, it's...
Line 114	Abel Vasquez: Okay.
Line 115	Martha Torrez: Our two boys are very athletic. I'm sure he knew more than he could show. When our boys were in state-champion basketball and football programs, he went out of his way to make sure they had what they needed, he was reliving what happened to him.
Line 116	Martha Torrez: In high school, our son lost pair after pair of sneakers, and he'd just go buy another pair.
Line 117	Abel Vasquez: I think I was trying to relive my childhood through my kids. I really wanted to play basketball, but I didn't want to burden my folks, they could barely make ends meet. So I said I didn't want to play anymore. I never participated in sports because you had to stay after school to practice, and that was when we worked in the fields.
Line 118	Abel Vasquez: Being a field worker, you had to work when crops were ready, the crops didn't wait for you. As the older male in the family, I was next in line to help support us. I liked school, but by 14, it became a hassle. There were social pressures, clubs, nice clothes, and I felt inadequate because I wasn't dressed properly.
Line 119	Martha Torrez: You felt out of place.
Line 120	Abel Vasquez: I felt out of place, not because I thought I wasn't adequate, but because I didn't have nice jeans, shoes, or shirts like the other kids. I knew something was wrong, but the kids didn't make me feel that way. I was my own worst critic. At 14, in ninth grade, I quit school.
Line 121	Martha Torrez: Did you feel resentment? Did you blame anyone for not fitting in, because of peer pressure and not having what others had?
Line 122	Abel Vasquez: I didn't have resentment. I don't think the kids cared how I looked. I was my own worst critic. Some of those kids are still friends of mine today.
Line 123	Martha Torrez: So he just didn't want to humiliate himself internally.
Line 124	Abel Vasquez: I told my grandmother, 'I don't want to go to school anymore.' She asked why, but I just didn't want to. I was 14. She didn't push too hard, she was caught between a rock and a hard place: if I went to school, less money came in; if I worked, more came in. She took the easy way out, and I was glad, because I didn't feel like I fit in socially.
Line 125	Abel Vasquez: If it had been economically feasible, she would have insisted I stay in school.
Line 126	Martha Torrez: That still exists, children brought in to work because they're extra hands. Has that changed over the years?
Line 127	Abel Vasquez: Yes, it's changed a bit. Not because kids have changed, but because we as parents want something better for our kids, and we know education is the only way. My grandmother would have insisted I go to school if she could have afforded it.
Line 128	Martha Torrez: Did you have more education than your parents?
Line 129	Abel Vasquez: Oh, I'm sure I did. My father never went to school. When he came from Mexico, he didn't know English, he learned to read by reading newspapers. He still speaks a little English, enough to get by. My mother and grandmother spoke English fluently, they must have gone to school somewhere, but I don't know how far.
Line 130	Martha Torrez: You value education greatly. Earlier, you mentioned 'macho thinking' when you decided to quit school. What do you mean by that?
Line 131	Abel Vasquez: To quit school.
Line 132	Martha Torrez: What do you base that on?
Line 133	Abel Vasquez: I was the man of the house. I spoke Spanish and English. I did all the figuring in the fields, how many rows, how much per acre, per sack. I was the family bookkeeper. My grandmother saw me as more responsible, especially since my step-grandfather was an alcoholic. She needed someone to rely on, and I was chosen.
Line 134	Abel Vasquez: We were more responsible.
Line 135	Martha Torrez: So you pretty much felt like the head of the...
Line 136	Abel Vasquez: Yeah. Right. Because, needless to say, and it's a sad thing to say, but my grandfather was the one that raised me, was also an alcoholic. And so. Needless to say that, you know, and I knew that my grandmother knew that. So she had somebody to she had to have somebody to rely on. And I guess I was the one that was chosen to do so.
Line 137	Abel Vasquez: And so it it wasn't difficult for her for me to quit. I wouldn't say, you know, school wasn't really that difficult because I knew what was needed at home.
Line 138	Martha Torrez: By then, your real mother had died when you were ten. She'd remarried and had five more children, and died in childbirth. Your grandmother went and got all five and brought them to Marsing. When your grandmother died in 1945, you were 15, and became head of the household.
Line 139	Abel Vasquez: When my mother died in April 1940, my sister and I were in Marsing with my grandmother and step-grandpa. We went back to Colorado for the funeral, and my grandmother brought back five half-siblings: Augustine, Rebecca, Alice, Chris, and Angelina (who died young). So she raised eight grandchildren total.
Line 140	Martha Torrez: Yeah.
Line 141	Martha Torrez: His older sister married in 1947. That left them to raise each other, and he felt responsible. To this day, they look to him for guidance. When the youngest got married, he had to do the father's role, ask for the bride's hand.
Line 142	Martha Torrez: It sounds like your grandmother was the most influential.
Line 143	Abel Vasquez: Oh, yes, she was a very tough woman. How do you raise eight grandkids without modern conveniences? We heated water outside, carried it from a ditch to wash clothes and bathe. We hooked a water tank to a pickup to get drinking water.
Line 144	Martha Torrez: She must have been incredible. From what he says, she protected them like a mother.
Line 145	Martha Torrez: Tell her about the time you came to Nampa for groceries and got accused.
Line 146	Abel Vasquez: We came to Nampa to buy groceries, big shopping day. I was about 11 or 12. We went into a store, and soon the police came and accused my grandmother of stealing unpaid groceries.
Line 147	Martha Torrez: They couldn't arrest her.
Line 148	Abel Vasquez: No, they took her to the police station. We had to prove we'd paid. We got our groceries back, but I don't recall an apology. I was young. Grandma always handled problems. I don't know if it was racial, we didn't know what racism was then.
Line 149	Martha Torrez: But if she hadn't spoken English...
Line 150	Abel Vasquez: She might have ended up in jail.
Line 151	Abel Vasquez: But she was very outspoken, and fluent. She read them the riot act. My grandmother was domineering but protective. She taught us family was everything, take care of each other. We feared her more than anyone, she was the authority.
Line 152	Martha Torrez: After she died everything fell apart.
Line 153	Abel Vasquez: Yes, my five half-siblings went with their father. My older brother joined the Navy. My sister married. It was just me, 15 years old, trying to hold things together.
Line 154	Martha Torrez: And you joined the migrant stream, going to Arizona. California for winter work.
Line 155	Abel Vasquez: Yes, until I was drafted at 20 while working in a bakery in Calexico, California. I entered the service in 1951.
Line 156	Martha Torrez: What do you recall about your service as a Mexican-American?
Line 157	Abel Vasquez: There were other Hispanics, but I didn't notice discrimination. I wasn't looking for negatives. The service was a great experience, first time I had clean sheets, three square meals, two pairs of shoes, a clean uniform, showers, and a payday. It helped me grow up.
Line 158	Martha Torrez: He's very patriotic, believes in defending the country.
Line 159	Abel Vasquez: Yes, I'm patriotic. The service helped me more than my streetwise youth ever did.
Line 160	Martha Torrez: What do you mean by "streetwise"?
Line 161	Abel Vasquez: Drinking, smoking, fighting, things kids do without guidance. I did what I felt like, no one to tell me not to.
Line 162	Martha Torrez: Any worst experiences from that time?
Line 163	Abel Vasquez: Once, I got drunk in Wilder and crashed into a divider on the way back to Nampa, I thought I'd killed myself. Another time, in Yuma, Arizona, we lived in a labor camp for two weeks with no money, sneaking in at night, covering ourselves with a mattress. We went to a dance in Somerton, and locals ran us out for being 'foreigners.'
Line 164	Abel Vasquez: We had nothing to eat but green grapefruit, breakfast, lunch, and supper.
Line 165	Martha Torrez: How long were you in the service?
Line 166	Abel Vasquez: Two years, 1951 to 1953. I served in Korea, never in direct combat, but we saw bodies in the river, men hanging from bridges, and once a Korean boy shot trying to enter our compound for food.
Line 167	Abel Vasquez: I enjoyed the service. I think every young person should spend two years in the military, it teaches responsibility.
Line 168	Martha Torrez: How many Hispanics were with you?
Line 169	Abel Vasquez: Very few, from Idaho, I was the only one drafted. But in the camps, there were more from other states.
Line 170	Martha Torrez: On economics, how does your situation compare to your parents'?
Line 171	Abel Vasquez: We're better off, not because I worked harder, but because times changed. Each generation wants to do better for the next. My grandparents wanted that for me, even if they couldn't provide it.
Line 172	Martha Torrez: What did you do after the service?
Line 173	Abel Vasquez: I worked in the fields one more year, then in 1953 my uncle got me a job at Idaho Concrete Pipe Company, digging ditches with a pick and shovel. I worked there until 1982.
Line 174	Martha Torrez: How did you meet your wife?
Line 175	Abel Vasquez: I promised God that if He let me live through Korea, I'd go to church first thing. In March 1953, still in uniform, I walked into church, and Martha sang a solo. We married in 1954, big traditional Mexican church wedding.
Line 176	Martha Torrez: She dreamed of him before they met.
Line 177	Abel Vasquez: There were too many other girls, but he chose her.
Line 178	Martha Torrez: Her father, a minister, didn’t approve at first.
Line 179	Abel Vasquez: He wanted her to marry a preacher. But after we married, I became his favorite son-in-law.
Line 180	Martha Torrez: You later found your real father.
Line 181	Abel Vasquez: At 30, my wife found a letter in my grandmother's attic, from my real father, Corsicana Vasquez. He’d written asking to see his children after my mother’s death, forgiving as Christ forgave. We’d been told he abandoned us, but the letter showed otherwise.
Line 182	Abel Vasquez: We drove from San Diego to Monterey, my birthplace, searching phone books. By chance, we found Oak Street, and 659 Oak Street. I knocked, and met a small, bald man. I asked questions, he didn’t realize I was his son until his wife said, 'They’re your family!' He cried, hugged me, prayed. I slept like a baby that night, like I’d finally found him.
Line 183	Abel Vasquez: He apologized for the past, I told him, 'You don’t owe me anything.' I promised to name my next son after him, if it was a boy. We did, Joseph. My father still lives in that same house in California. I talk to him often.
Line 184	Martha Torrez: You have strong faith.
Line 185	Abel Vasquez: Oh yes, we had a church upbringing.
Line 186	Martha Torrez: What about Mexican customs and traditions?
Line 187	Abel Vasquez: I love mariachi music, rice and beans, tortillas, but I don’t like chili. As a kid, we didn’t celebrate Cinco de Mayo. I’m proud to be Mexican, but I was raised among white kids, so culture wasn’t emphasized. I didn’t push it on my kids, they speak English, have good jobs. Maybe they’ll explore their heritage later.
Line 188	Martha Torrez: What about language?
Line 189	Abel Vasquez: I wish I’d insisted they speak Spanish. Today, bilingualism is valuable. But back then, survival meant speaking English, going to school, fitting in.
Line 190	Martha Torrez: Did you experience prejudice?
Line 191	Abel Vasquez: Not as a kid, I didn’t know what to look for. Later, when promoted to purchasing manager at Idaho Concrete, some resented me, especially after they fired a college graduate to give me the job. My boss warned me, but I figured it was jealousy, not racism.
Line 192	Martha Torrez: Did you ever get your diploma?
Line 193	Abel Vasquez: Yes, at 55. When the company folded in 1982, I was 52 and unemployed. I applied at the courthouse and became a deputy, but couldn’t go to the police academy without a diploma. So I got my GED in two and a half months for $20. Graduating made me feel ten feet tall.
Line 194	Abel Vasquez: At 55, I entered the police academy. It was hard, learning and physical, but my goal was just to finish. They treated me gently because of my age, but I graduated. Now, at 60, I’m running for Canyon County Commissioner, as a Republican. I love Idaho. This is my home.
Line 195	Martha Torrez: Do you define yourself as Mexicano?
Line 196	Abel Vasquez: I can’t help it.
Line 197	Martha Torrez: Are you proud of what you are?
Line 198	Abel Vasquez: Oh, yeah. I’m proud to be Hispanic, and American. My kids married gringos and a Guatemalan, life doesn’t go as planned. But family is everything. If I died today, I’d say I accomplished what I set out to do, not as a millionaire, but as a man with family who loves him.
Line 199	Martha Torrez: What do you think of the Hispanic Commission’s interviews?
Line 200	Abel Vasquez: We need to promote the positive in our community, not just gangs and negativity. We have a lot to offer. As Kennedy said: 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.' I hope when I’m laid to rest, they’ll say, 'He did a little bit.' Sometimes a little becomes a lot.
Line 201	Martha Torrez: Thank you on behalf of the Idaho Humanities Council I'd like to thank you both for your time.
Line 202	Abel Vasquez: Thank you very much.

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